FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Brown mess on stove, cherry stout (Joseph Edward Kain Iii)
  Raspberry beer, the easy way. ("Michael Scroggie")
  Grain recycling (Harralson, Kirk)
  Keg/Fridge setup ("Terence McGravey {91942}")
  Something new? from A-B (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Wit beer synopsis (BrewerLee)
  Printed version of the HBD (Pravda or Posledstvija - Bob Barker)
  Brewpots (WADE GARY L)
  Presure treated wood/Jim Koch(tm) (Ed Hitchcock)
  Manifold Design ("Jim Robinson")
  Kolsch and Cider (Mark Worwetz)
  Stinky Pot (no the other thing) (Hmbrewbob)
  Newbie Question about Secondary (Michael Minter)
  Coleman Apology, NJ Homebrew Shops (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Commercialism and HBD (michael j dix)
  optimizing hop utilization (Chris Lyons)
  2 Things (EDGELL)
  Beer bread (Cecila Strickland )
  Lighter moments in beer.... (uswlsrap)
  copyright concerns / ads / Sam Houston (Alan P Van Dyke)
  Blonde Ale (Keith Frank)
  HBD Hard Copy?  No way! (Jeff Stampes)
  Lifespan in carboy (Jeff Stampes)
  HBD Hardcopy Edition & Copyright Law (Richard A Childers)
  Summary: grain mill question (Ray Gaffield)
  DMS (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Worthless posts (Dennis Forester)
  Jim Koch's Latest Antics (Louis K. Bonham)
  Dispensing from Sanke kegs on side (Bob Jones)
  AHA style guidelines (Bob Jones)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:17:24 -0400
From: Joseph Edward Kain Iii <kainj at rpi.edu>
Subject: Brown mess on stove, cherry stout


The brown mess on one's gas stove after brewing would probably
be soot or other results of incomplete combustion.  A little
trick I learned in the boy scouts that might help would be to
take a little dish soap (the liquid variety, such as "Dawn")
and rub a thin film onto all affected surfaces BEFORE you brew.
Afterwards, when you clean up, the brown stuff will have bonded
with the soap rather than your stove, and the soap will just
come off with water and a little rubbing with a dishcloth.
We used to use this trick while camping to keep soot from the
fire from making a hard-to-clean mess on the bottom of our pots
and pans.  The only thing you have to worry about is making
sure that you don't allow any of the soap to come in contact
with what you are cooking (diarrhea city).

I recently brewed a stout.  I added 7.5 lbs of frozen cherries
to the secondary.  I probably won't have to worry about infection
since the fruit was frozen and sealed in plastic bags and the beer
was rather alcoholic at that point, on the order of 8% (the specific
gravity went from 1.088 to 1.030, correct me if my math was wrong).

My question is:  If you add fruit to the secondary, how do you
determine what this contributes to the alcohol content?  This
is essentially adding an unknown quantity of fermentable sugars
plus some quantity of unfermentables.

Replies by private email will be summarized and posted.


MOLE  (kainj at rpi.edu)


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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 12:57:30 +1000
From: "Michael Scroggie" <michael_scroggie.zoology at muwaye.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Subject: Raspberry beer, the easy way.

Me and the guys recently brewed up an Australian kit beer (Cooper's Lager) in 
the usual manner, wiht the only departure from the instructions on the can 
being the substitution of Demerara sugar for the ordinary cane sugar 
recommended in the instructions. At bottling time we were feeling a little 
adventurous, no doubt from the effects of knocking over a few cold ones while 
we worked, and the idea hit me to have a go at making raspberry flavoured beer. 
We ordinarily prime our bottles (750 ml Carlton and United Breweries Bottles) 
with 5 grams of cane sugar, which seems to produce about the right amount of 
carbonation. The idea hit me that we could prime some of the bottles with 
raspberry jam, so an expedition to the supermarket followed to obtain a jar. 
The bottles were primed with 6mls of jam, using a syringe, and some of the 
bottles were primed using cane sugar, for comparison. That was three weeks ago, 
and I just last night opened on of the raspberry bottles, along with one 
fromthe same batch primed with cane sugar. The stuff is great!-
 just a very subtle hint of raspberry in the flavour, and a slightly darker 
colour than normal. the 6mls must have been a good guess, as carbonation was 
just right. Has any one out there tried this, or any similar techniques?


Just Brew It!

Mick Scroggie
michael scroggie.zoology at muwaye.unimelb.edu.au
"..all beer is good, some beer is better than other beer." 
 -Australian Proverb

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 16:53:21 EST
From: kwh at roadnet.ups.com (Harralson, Kirk)
Subject: Grain recycling

jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes) writes:

>>Does anyone have a recipe for bread made from the grain left over 
>after lautering?  A local bakery does it in conjunction with some local 
>breweries and its real good.

>I do not have any such recipe, but I do have another good use for grain
>after brewing . . . cereal!  I take my grains after sparging, spread them
>on a cookie sheet and sprinkle them with sugar & cinnamon.  Then bake in
>the oven at about 425F, turning frequently, until they have baked bone-dry
>all the way through.  It comes out a little chewy, and is the dietary 
>equivalent of eating a push-broom, but it's really tasty!

I think this is an excellent suggestion.  The part about dietary equivalent did 
make me wonder what nutritional value would be left in the "used" grain.  It 
seems that the malting and mashing procedures would convert almost all of the 
complex carbohydrates into simple ones, and the lautering would wash most of 
these away.  If there is no nutritional value left in the grains, it might not 
be worth the trouble.  Then again, I don't know what goes into boxed cereal 
either...  Are there any diet/nutrition experts out there who can comment on 
this before I make Klages Krispies?

Hoppy brewing from Jim Bob Seersucker himself!

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 07:31:26 EDT
From: "Terence McGravey {91942}" <tpm at swl.msd.ray.com>
Subject: Keg/Fridge setup


Greetings,

  I have acquired 3 Corny kegs in excellent shape and an old fridge.
My plan is to have a tap coming out of the wall in my finished
basement with the fridge containing my keg on the other side of the
wall. I would like to keep my CO2 tank outside the fridge. This
means I will need 2 holes in the fridge - CO2 line in and beer line
out. Does any body have a setup like this - and if so - what kind
of connectors will I need to go through the wall of the fridge ?

                                 Thanks in Advance,

                                    Terry McGravey
                                    tpm at swl.msd.ray.com

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 07:44:14 EDT
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Something new? from A-B

I saw a commercial on TV last night for a new beer from A-B 
called Red Wolf (as I remember).  It was reddish in color with 
a Wolf on the label.  Now, does anyone know if is this a decent 
product from an A-B aquisition or is it just a marketing gimmic 
to sell Bud with a squirt of food coloring in it.

cheers for now
chuckm

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 07:55:28 -0400
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: Wit beer synopsis

There has been allot of very good feedback on the Wit beer post I uploaded
several digests ago.  

And I thought I was done! :)

Many of you who wrote to me originally wrote again to tell me "Hey, I didn't
say that!", well, you didn't, I did.  Let me do a legal disclaimer here:  All
text is my own except for specific quotes which were adequately documented.
 There.

Anyway, what prompted me to do a followup is the business about the
gelatinization of wheat issue.  From what I have been able to find wheat
gelatinizes at 146 deg F.  This is above what most people use for a protein
rest.  I stated that the wheat should be pre cooked for a couple of reasons:
 One, the wheat I think I recommended was red hard or soft white, not flakes.
 Flakes have no problems as they are already gelatinized.  Two, I don't want
to hear any sob stories from someone who ruined $20 worth of supplies after
thinking I said that they could to a single temp infusion and everything
would be hunkey-dorey.  I *know* there are good brewers out there and I know
how you make Wit beer.  This was meant to be a ruff-n-ready get started thing
and *I* think results would be more easily controlled by a beginner Wit beer
brewer if the wheat was gelatinized *before* the protein rest.  That's just
an opinion and of course you all are free to do whatever you want.

Martin did suggest a decoction mash and I personally feel it is probably the
way the style was originally brewed.  A decoction mash isn't necessary for
*any* beer style but there are us masochists out there who think a triple
decocted, all grain Doppelbock is fun.

There were a few people who made comments about the spices as well.  This is
a very personal thing and how you make your beer is subject to your
interpretations of the style and your brewing methods.  I'm not standing
there as you giggle to yourself as you add just a little bit more coriander
to spite me. :)  It's up to the brewer how he makes his beer and nowhere is
this more true than in one of the many Belgian styles.

A quick note to John, Jim and others who sent me mail re. this.  I'm up to my
*ss in alligators this week so excuse my not returning your e-mail directly.

So,  I hope you all enjoyed it despite it's flaws and I look forward to being
raked over the coals again sometime! :)


 -Lee C. Bussy
 BrewerLee at aol.com

October 28, 1994
6:51 am


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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:13:52 -0400
From: ambroser at apollo.dml.georgetown.edu (Pravda or Posledstvija - Bob Barker)
Subject: Printed version of the HBD

Did you notice that the purchase price wasn't listed? Sounds fishy to me too.

Bob

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:35:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: WADE GARY L <WADE_GARY_L at Lilly.com>
Subject: Brewpots

Brewpots

In Papazian's new book, he states that aluminum pots for brewing are O.K. for
hombrewers as long as caustic solutions are not used to clean them.  I would
like to know the general consensus on this....  Anybody use aluminum?  Produce
any off tastes?  Anybody know of any health implications?  Any feedback would
be appreciated.  I have a chance to purchase a 22.5 gallon spun aluminum pot
if it would work.....

TIA

Gary
glw at lilly.com



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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:53:21 -0300 (ADT)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Presure treated wood/Jim Koch(tm)


	Despite the industry information about the chromium arsenide (or 
whatever it is) bonding to the wood, I have purchased pressure treated 
wood that has a layer of the stuff on the surface.  This layer will rub 
off on your hands, clothes etc.  This stuff will get into the soil no 
matter how well the rest of it is bonded to the wood.  

	Message from Jim(tm) Koch(tm) (pronounced "cook"[tm]):
	"You're all in trouble now.  I've trademarked HomebrewDigest (tm) 
as well as hbd(tm).  I will take this one to the Supreme Court (tm), 
which as you can see I have also trademarked.  See you in court (tm)."


   ----------------
Ed Hitchcock, now on the right side of the student/staff division
ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca


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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 08:02:04 PST
From: "Jim Robinson" <Jim_Robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com>
Subject: Manifold Design



CAUTION..Many opinions are contained in the following message, 
hold your nose where appropriate.

After a recent post concerning my copper pipe manifold, I've had 
to reevaluate the basis for my design.  I'm not an engineer or a 
hydraulics expert, so I'll just throw out the first pitch and see 
what happens.

IMHO using a copper manifold vs. a false bottom is a convenience 
trade-off.  I'm sure that a well designed false bottom will give 
a better extraction rate, if for nothing else strictly because of 
surface area.  Of course that is also one of the potential 
problem with a false bottom.  Gravity and fluid pressure (Flame 
suit on!) push the grain down into the drain holes.  A stuck 
sparge with a false bottoms leaves you with few options other 
than digging out the grain. At this point I can see Charlie P. 
talking about floating the grain bed etc... 

What I like about the manifold design is its ability to "resist 
sticking".  By putting the holes at the BOTTOM of the pipe, the 
natural pressures exerted by the grain bed actually push the 
manifold down, which discourages grains from clogging the little 
holes.  An additional bonus is that by having a small vent pipe, 
you can gently rock the manifold if things get sticky.

Now the hard part.  What is the "superior" manifold design?  I 
have a slip fitting that has a controlled leak into the spigot.  
Is this smart?  Do I lose "vacuum" at the end of the manifold?  
What size holes are best?  How many?  Do less holes create a low 
pressure area?  What's the best shape?  Mine is shaped like an H 
except it has three branches instead of two.  I have heard of 
people using a straight pipe!  Is 5/8 pipe a good size or is 
bigger better (no rude comments)?  Now about the vent tube.  
Should the vent tube (up through the grain bed) be open all the 
time?  If you cap it off and drill a hole, what size would be 
good?  I suppose we could even talk about materials.  I tried PVC 
and was very displeased (bad taste).  Although I now hear that 
there is a special PVC for water delivery. Copper and solder is 
very durable but hopefully not toxic (yes I used non-toxic 
solder).  

Now I can just picture Jack Schmidling's fingers starting to 
itch.  Yes I know that you can "probably" use an EM in a cooler, 
but what's the fun in that?  

At any rate, it would be nice to come to a "design consensus" for 
a copper manifold.  At least in the future when the newbies ask, 
we can point them in the right direction.

Comments/Flames kindly accepted!

Jim   

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:04:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz)
Subject: Kolsch and Cider

Howdy from ZION!

I have two quicky questions for the combined wisdom of the HBD:

1 - I currently have a Kolsch beer in the primary fermenter, and I used
    the Wyeast Kolsch yeast.  I don't remember the number, but I believe
    the description for this yeast mentioned that it was a combination of
    both ale and lager yeast.  In todays digest, someone mentioned that
    a Kolsch should be warm fermented.  My questions are: What temperature
    should this be fermented at?  If the yeast is a combination, will I
    get that strange steam beer taste out of the lager yeast at warm
    temps?  Perhaps a warm primary and cold secondary fermentation? HELP!

2 - I also have an apple cider bubbling away.  It is straight apple pressings,
    sanitized with Campden tablets, and then pitched two days later with
    10 grams of dry Pasteur (TM) champagne yeast.  The OG was 1.060.  The
    question here is:  Is this stuff supposed to smell this bad?  It smells
    like rotting apples, yeasty and sweet.  It has been fermenting rapidly for
    two days after a long 2 day respiration period.  Should I persevere?  Is
    this normal?  HELP! (again)

TIA,
Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM

PS Hoppy brewing to all you boys and ghouls!

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 11:32:07 -0400
From: Hmbrewbob at aol.com
Subject: Stinky Pot (no the other thing)

Because my brewpot gets used for cooking things other than brew i.e.
crabs,chilli,ect.,I've had the same kind of problem as Terry writes in
HBD#1564. He writes:   " There is a horrible odor
impregnated into this thing that I can't figure out how to get rid
of."  I found that using a baking soda and water paste with alittle elbo
grease seems to work. You may want to leave it on for awhile before rinsing.
                                                     Hoppy Brewing,
                                                     Bobdabrewer

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 10:59:55 CDT
From: minter at lsil.com (Michael Minter)
Subject: Newbie Question about Secondary

I am on my 3rd batch and just transferred to a carboy for a
secondary ferment after 6 days in primary. When I siphoned from
prim->second some clumps of ale yeast got sucked through. I having
been watching with amazement these clumps of yeast rising and falling
at the surface. Eventually the clumps seem to be falling to 
the bottom.

My question(s) is, is this normal behavior for my ale yeast? Should I
wait to bottle until all noticeable clumps have fallen to the bottom?
There has been little to no activity in the airlock since transferring.

Thanks!

Michael

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 12:19:05 EDT
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Coleman Apology, NJ Homebrew Shops
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat

In a previous HBD, I shot off my mouth about what a piece of junk the COLEMAN
cooler was for mashing...  Well, Jim Robinson tells me via private EMAIL that
the industrial colman says INDUSTRIAL in big BOLD letters on the front.  This
means I don't have an industrial one... (boo-hoo...!)  So, his coleman cooler
is more studly than mine...  Well, I guess I spoke too soon.  Don't get the
wimpy version of the coleman cooler.  I don't know how the other will hold up,
but Jim has threatened to abuse his cooler with boiling water, so he should
know soon.

- -------------------

On another note...  I saw a pretty serious bash of a few homebrew supply shops
in HBD1563 by Dennis Forester.  He seems to favor U-Brew, and Red Bank by far.
I have been to both, and one thing Red Bank seemed to have more of was books,
and 3 gal mini-kegs.  They were also the only semi-local shop to sell converted
kegs for boiling.

I frequent the Brewmeister in Cranford, and to read that the selection was not
great astonishes me!  The shop has 32 types of malt, 24 types of hops, and
46 yeast strains!  I'm not sure of the stats for extract brewing, but for all
grain, I have yet to find a better source!  I know this must sound like an
ad, and I must admit that Dave (the owner) is a friend of mine, but I wouldn't
respond unless I felt that the "not great selection" review was a disservice
to the HBD.

Dennis goes on to describe the staff as "loud, annoying and not ... very
knowledgable".  I've got to respond to this, maybe to prepare folks who 
go in to ask Dave for advice.  I would bet that Dennis spoke to Dave, and I
have heard folks refer to Dave as "loud".  Dave can be a little, well okay,
a lot loud- but he is EXTREMELY knowledgeable!  Take a read on the Ale street
news Oct/Nov 1994 issue - front page and pg 17.  The guy smirking in the middle
of the photo on pg 17 is "brewing consultant Dave Hoffman".  Dave knows his
brewing big time.  He is also very opinionated.  He still rags on me about my
willingness to use adjuncts in my all grain beers.  You can walk into the
Brewmeister and tell Dave what kind of beer you want to make, and he'll spout
out the receipe!  If you follow his instruction, the beer will come out just
like you wanted.  If you ask how much rice should I add to my light beer, or
how much brown sugar to add to my pale ale, he is likely reply, "Shut up!  That
sh*t doesn't belong in BEER!" and then mention something about 1516...

I feel a little bad about plugging a business on the HBD, but I feel an honest
rebuttal to Dennis's blast needs to be posted.  I've been honest about the
Brewmeister, and I have no financial interest in the place.  Just a very
satisfied customer.
- --
 -Gary Kuyat
  gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
  (908)699-8422

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 10:09:25 PDT"
From: michael j dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Commercialism and HBD

A pang did shoot through me as I read that the collective intellectual
property of the HBD contributors was to be printed and sold.  It was as
if some enterprising publisher were to start publishing sets of one's
old love letters.  However, his intention may be to provide a
print-shop-type service.  I'm sure some of us have taken our
intellectual property to a copy center to be duplicated and spiral
bound, etc.  Of course, there is a charge for these services, including
a profit for the print shop.  This _may_ be a reasonable thing to do 
with HBD.    So he should explain himself further.

Al K comments on ads in the HBD.  I like to read about new products,
good/bad experiences with stores, etc.  I love getting catalogs in the
mail (up to a point).  However I agree blatant ads have no place in the
HBD.  Unlike a magazine, HBD is not supported through advertising.  Rob
and the contributors maintain it out of generosity (true amateur
spirit.)

 My thought is that some enterprising cybercitizen should start the HB
supplies mailing list.  He could buy a computer, put it on the net, and
charge commercial operations to distribute their junk mail.  This could
be supplemented or replaced with a web home page.

Then he could post a message to HBD once a month, announcing the 
existence of this mail list, and the home page URL.  This would be a 
minimal use of band width, and I think would fill a real need.

Comments are solicited.

Best regards,

Mike Dix (mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com)

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 13:06:37 EDT
From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com>
Subject: optimizing hop utilization

Bob writes in HBD #1564 about hop utilizatoin:

>The longer the boil (up to a certain point) and the lower the gravity
>of your wort, the higher the utilisation.

I read this here in the HBD previously.  Does this imply that if you
boiled hops in plain water that you'd achieve a higher utilization?
Would there be an advantage to boiling the hops in water, and then
using this water for brewing?

Regards,
Chris

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 12:36:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: EDGELL at uwmfe.neep.wisc.edu
Subject: 2 Things

Hi,
I have two questions for the HBD.

1) A while back I met some homebrewers with a small bottle of megaswill "beer
fixer". One drop in regular factory beer and you suddenly have if not good
beer but acceptable beer. I assume the formula was some mixture of hop extract
and hop oils. Does anyone out there have a recipe for a similar formula. I
think it would be of great help when forced to be somewhere that only has bad
beer.

2) I will be in Minneapolis next week and would like to request recommendations
for bars and brewpubs. Last time I was in Minneapolis I had a hard time finding
good beer on tap. Few bars seemed to have them despite there being a couple 
of local microbreweries.

Please respond via private email
Thanks,

Dana Edgell
Madison homebrewers and Tasters Guild
edgell at uwmfe.neep.wisc.edu

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Date: Fri 28 Oct 94 11:10:38-PDT
From: Cecila Strickland <CID at mathom.xkl.com>
Subject: Beer bread

Hi,

I've made this beer bread a number of times 
and it's terrific.  The recipe was in a Zymurgy
a few years back.
Beer Grains Bread				Makes 2 BIG Loaves

4 cups spent beer barley grains		1 cup milk or water
1/2 c safflower oil				2 tbsp honey
pinch of salt					1 pkg dry baker's yeast
5-6 Cups unbleached flour

Place the grains and water/milk in a food processor and process until
 of desired consistency - 30 seconds to one minute.  30 seconds will 
process the grains into small grains, 1 minute will completely pulverize
 them.  Pour the processed grains in a LARGE non-aluminum mixing
 bowl and add oil, honey, salt and yeast.  Stir in 5 cups flour OR until
 you have a stiff, workable dough.  Turn it out onto a floured work
 surface and knead for 10 minutes, adding flour as needed.  Place
 it back into the clean bowl and let rise until double.  

When double, punch down, and form into 2 loaves.  Butter or oil
 2 bread pans, add loaves and let rise until double again.

Bake at 350 degrees for 1 hour - 1 hour, 15 minutes.  Let cool and
 enjoy.  The spare loaf will freeze well.

Enjoy!
Cyd
- -------

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 14:24:58 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Lighter moments in beer....                                      

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Lighter moments in beer....

The following item appeared as a correction note in a homebrew shop catalogue
our club received in the mail.

"Ooops--Please excuse the typo in our catalog on Rehydrating Dry Yeast
(pg 20).  If you boil yeast, it will die.  Rehydrate dry yeast by adding
it to cooled water that has been boiled....  Please save yourself from a
possibly frustrating moment, at some point in the future, and mark up the
catalog right now."

Talk about high (non)fermentation temperatures, eh?

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Friday, 28 October 94 14:10:19 CST
From: Alan P Van Dyke <llapv at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
Subject: copyright concerns / ads / Sam Houston

Howdy, all!

Well, someone wants to sell a hardcopy of the HBD.  Do y'all know that you
own the copyright on what you write?  And that you don't have to put such
a notice on what you write?  Or even register it?  So, if you think you're
getting ripped off, you are.

However, whereas out & out repetitive advertisement should be frowned upon,
I think it's a good idea to have short, succinct product announcements on
the HBD.  Just as long as they are informative but not pushy, & run just
_once_, I don't see the problem.  Otherwise, we may never find out about
someone's special doo-hickey that revolutionizes the mashing process.  Just
an opinion, mind you.  I don't have anything to sell.

Sam Houston, during his first year as President of the Republic of Texas,
greeted & accepted the credentials of the French Consulate wearing a bear
skin & just grunting.  I think if he knew that there was a fight over his
name, that's how he'd feel.  Besides, he hated Austin.

BTW, Celis Raspberry is made with the unseasoned White as a base beer.  Lots
of raspberry in it, with almost no beer flavor.  It's pink, almost the color
of a soda, & I'm sure that if the wine cooler crowd dared drink it, they'd
fall for it instantly.  I'm gonna try it as an ice cream float.  Too bad they
didn't introduce it for the summer, 'cuz that's what it's best for.  Really
not very Belgian like, to be honest.

A shameless plug:  Texas Brewers Festival, Nov. 6, Austin.  It'll be fun.

Alan of Austin

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 14:26:54 -0500
From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Blonde Ale

*** from Bruce DeBolt ***

Reagin McNeill, the brewer who won a medal for blonde ale at the GABF, wrote 
an article on the style in a summer(?) issue of Southwest Brewing News.  
Included information on ingredients, how to brew, and a list of commercial 
examples.  The e-mail address for Southwest Brewing News is 
swbrewing at aol.com.  Publishers are Bill Metzger and Joe Barfield 
(joebarley at aol.com).  Perhaps they can send the article electronically.  I 
may be calling them as I couldn't find my article this morning.

If you are interested in barley wine that is the subject of McNeill's article 
in the Oct./Nov. issue of SWBN.

I drank the Big Blonde Ale at McNeill's brewpub in Brattleboro this summer 
and it was excellent, my favorite of the eight or so on tap.  It was 
different than other pale ales or "golden" ales I've tried.  I'd give it a 
gold medal.

Bruce DeBolt 

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 09:03:47 MDT
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: HBD Hard Copy?  No way!


#! at %^&!!!!

God Bless American Free Enterprise!  We wouldn't want to allow there to be
any form of free exchange of ideas and information without anyone making a
buck on it now would we?  What right do we have to expect our good-hearted
suggestions to fellow brewers to merely enter the public domain without
anyone capitalizing on them?

(I'm going to shout now, so please cover your ears)

WHAT A LOAD OF ELK EXCREMENT!!!  GIMME A BREAK!!

(Ok, I got that out of my system)

If someone wants to create hardcopies of the HBD for free distribution
at beer festivals, homebrew stores and the ilk, that's just fine . . .
we can all be poor & famous.  But the idea of me being poor & famous
while some overzealous capitalist becomes rich & anonymous on what is
one of the most civilized information sharing sources I've been 
fortunate enough to be a part of makes my skin CRAWL!

This is an instance that I feel demands a little action on our part.  If
you resent this whole idea the way I (and others) seem to, and you would like
to voice your objections, let's not ruin the whole joy of homebrewing on HBD 
a flame war.  Let's just all send a nice little E-Mail to clayglen at netcom.com
and let him know that his efforts are not appreciated.  They can't publish 
hardcopiues of HBD without us, the contibutors . . . and if they start to
publish, maybe we'll just stop contibuting.

Thank you for your time & attention . . . we now bring you back to your
regularly scheduled homebrew discussions . . . 

***************************

What's the oldest barleywine anyone out there has kept?  I brewed one about
15 months ago, and still have two bottles left that I'll be cracking open
shortly . . . I was just wondering if anyone has kept any over a year & a
half, and if so, did they continue to improve?

Jeff Stampes


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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 14:48:44 MDT
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Lifespan in carboy


Just wondering what the geneeral feelings towards lifespan in the secondary
carboy are.  I've had a blueberry stout in secondary for about 5 weeks now,
and I have the feeling it'll be there a while longer before I do anything
with it.  I'm going to float a hearty layer of CO2 over the top of it next
week to eliminate any oxidation worries, but was just wondering if anyone 
had any other concerns I should think about, or stories regarding the
"Rip Van Winkle" you left there forever

(maybe that's the name for it . . . Rip Van Winkle Stout?)

jeff at neocad.com

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 14:35:49 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard A Childers)
Subject: HBD Hardcopy Edition & Copyright Law


"Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
 From: clayglen at netcom.com (Clay Glenn)
 Subject: HBD Hardcopy Edition

"Cyber Age Publishing is an Internet access provider with a twist. "


Bull. You're taking the work of others, printing it, retailing it without
first getting releases from the authors, and claiming credit while having
added absolutely no value whatsoever.

If I find you publishing or selling anything I have said without having
first arranged it with me in writing, I will sue you into the ground.

If you don't believe me I suggest you read the Berne Copyright Convention,
which addressed all of these issues well over a decade ago, and which the
United States is a signatory to. It is an international treaty, IE, you
can be prosecuted outside the United States for selling information that
was bootlegged inside the United States, if you don't own the copyright.

This is your only friendly warning. The next one will be delivered via
certified, registered mail.


"For more details about the Homebrew Digest Hardcopy Edition,
 please reply directly via e-mail, or write to the publisher:

          Cyber Age Publishing
          1835 Newport Boulevard, G182 #263-HBD
          Costa Mesa, California  92627

"Clay Glenn, Editor		clayglen at netcom.com"


I'll remember that name and address ...			(-:

Remember, free network publicity cuts both ways. It can be *bad* publicity.
And complaints can pour in just as rapidly as orders ... maybe faster.


- -- richard


    "I gathered I wasn't very well liked. Somehow, the feeling pleased me."
		    _Nine Princes In Amber_, by Roger Zelazny

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 94 16:06:18 -0500
From: ray_gaffield at il.us.swissbank.com (Ray Gaffield)
Subject: Summary: grain mill question



Thanx to all who responded to my question about fixed vs. adjustable  
grain mills. The overwhelming consensus was that the fixed mill will  
be quite sufficent for the long haul. A few mentioned that an  
adjustable  mill  *might* be better if you're going to do a lot of  
wheat brewing but nobody stressed this strongly.

	Ray 


> I am trying to decide on a grain mill to purchase and I have  
narrowed  

> down my search to the MaltMill(tm) products , partly because of  
local  

> availabilty. It seems that alot of people, according to my local  

> suppliers, are quite happy with the fixed (non-adjustable) model  
and  

> even recommend it for beginner grain brewers. 


> What I would like to know is: will I eventually "outgrow" this mill  

> i.e. will I need an adjustable mill later as I get more ambitious  

> with grain brewing ? 


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Date: 28 Oct 94 18:33:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: DMS

Spencer and I had a short exchange off-line and he reminded me of
several other sources of DMS in the final beer.  If you have an
insufficiently vigorous boil, you can produce a lot of DMS from
SMM but not boil it off.  Also, if you leave the lid on the pot, you
can do the same.  Finally, if you don't boil long enough (even with
the lid off and a good rolling boil), you can have left more SMM
than you would like in the wort and then if you cool slowly, you
will create excessive DMS.  What I mean is, that if you boil well
and long, you will have converted much of the SMM to DMS and boiled
it off so even a slow cooling will not create excessive DMS.

Consider, for example, the cooling of many Belgian beers -- overnight
in coolships -- but recall that they regularly have 2 hour and longer
boils.

Al.

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Date:        Fri, 28 Oct 94 19:40:19 EST
From: Dennis Forester <X6OT at MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU>
Subject: Worthless posts

It means that, in my opinion, you used up alot of space in the HBD for a VERY
localized subject that 99.999999% of the HBD readership wouldn't give a shit
shit about.  The HBD lately has been clogged with peripheral or local   eep in
crap. Keep in mind that the Internet does extend outside NJ.

From: mdemers at ccmailpc.ctron.com
- ------------------------------------

After I made the post in the HBD about Homebrew Shops in NJ someone sent
me this e-mail. No name just an address. I am just wondering if everyone
that is a member of HBD feels the same way. If you do please let the
rest of us know this so that anything that has local intrest like
Brewpubs, microbreweries, contests, laws or club will be from now omited
from posts. I for one feel that things like this should stay in the HBD
because it is of importance to someone. If you are not one of these
people hit your page down key and go to the next topic. After all not
every post is important to or read by everyone.

By the way, I hate gutless asses who flame people but wont give a name.
I can't believe this one even left his address. You probably only did
this because the system does it for you.

Please post and tell your feels about local. By the way, I don't know
that I would call something that has to do with an entire state local.

How do you feel? We'd like to now.

Dennis
X6OT at Music.Stlawu.Edu

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 21:51:10
From: lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham)
Subject: Jim Koch's Latest Antics

For those of you who have reported (or perhaps hoped to see) a
"kinder, gentler" Jim Koch lately, I have news for you -- he ain't
changed. 

The latest hoopla over The Boston Beer [and Litigation] Company's
contention to have staked a claim to the "Sam Houston" moniker
(reported earlier in the HBD) prompted me to surf the U.S. Patent
and Trademark Office records when I had some free training time on
Westlaw today.  

According to these records, the Boston Beer Company filed an "intent
to use" registration on the name "Sam Houston" in January 1993. These
registrations last for six months, and can be renewed on a showing of
"good cause" to the Patent and Trademark Office.  BBC has filed for
several such extensions on this name.

Now, anyone can file an "intent to use" registration and
more-or-less "reserve" a name while final product preparation is
forthcoming (that's the whole reason for the "intent to use"
process), but the applicant must declare *under oath* that he does
in fact have a "bona fide" intent to market the product.  To quote
from the leading treatise on trademarks (McCarthy on Trademarks and
Unfair Competition, section 19.07[2][a] if you're keeping score),
"Congress intended the test of "bona fide" to be evidenced by 
"objective" evidence of circumstances showing "good faith."  The
evidence is "objective" in the sense that it is evidence in the
form of real life facts and by the actions of the applicant, not
by the applicant's testimony as to its subjective state of mind. 
That is, Congress did not intend the issue to be resolved simply
by an officer of the applicant later testifying, "Yes, indeed, at
the time we filed that application, I did truly intend to use the
mark at some time in the future.""

Thus, for the BBC to have any effective claim to the name "Sam
Houston," the BBC is gonna have to show that it has *really* been
planning to bring out a "Sam Houston" beer since January 1993;
otherwise, they defrauded the PTO and their intent to use
application will be ineffective.

I rather doubt this to be the case.  From my review of the PTO
records, it appears to me that the BBC has simply tried to latch
onto "good" names regardless of whether or not they have any right
to them or bona fide intention to use them. Note, for instance,
that the BBC has not been content to trademark and reserve "normal"
names and slogans (e.g., Boston Beer Company [TM], The Best Beer in
America [TM], Lightship [TM], etc.), but they also have laid claim
to George Washington Porter (serial no. 73-827,689), Poor Richard's
Ale (#73-827,688), Ben Franklin Ale (#73-827,691), and many others.
Particularly galling is that, notwithstanding its use by Jack
McAuliffe (the guy who *really* started the microbrewery
revolution) in the 1970's, BBC has also laid claim to the name "New
Albion" (#74-369,673) with an intent to use registration filed in
January 1994. 

Think that's bad enough?  How about the BBC's "intent to use"
registration on "Great American Beer Judging" (filed 10-19-93,
#74-450,324)?  I guess we should have expected as much from
"America's Microbrewery" (BBC intent to use this name filed
November 1992). 

Let the revolution begin --> BOYCOTT SAM ADAMS!


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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 22:33:39 +0900
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: Dispensing from Sanke kegs on side

>Kyle asks...
>
>I have a question about Sankey kegs. What I would like to do is
>to buy one of the straight-sided 1/2 barrel kegs, but I want to
>be able to dispense it while it is laying on its side.

No, won't work! Unless you do two things. Make a tap down tube that bends 90
degs down to the bottom of the keg and somehow add a 90 deg gas in that
bends to the top of the keg (thats the hard part). I suppose you could make
the gas in tube rigid and the liquid out lien flexible. That way you could
at least get it into the keg. Other than those small problem, it should work.

Better find a mechanical friend that likes beer. Good luck and let us know
how you make out.

Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 22:33:41 +0900
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: AHA style guidelines

There is an accomplished brewer in my homebrew club that meticulously
studies judges comments and iterates his beer recipes to meet what the
judges want. He is good at this, being a scientist/engineering type. He wins
more than his fair share of competitions with this strategy. His beers are
great beers, but they rarely are to style. If they were they wouldn't win.
This strategy has won him awards at local and national competitions. Like it
or not, beers that win competitions are NOT to style in a large number of
cases. I call them characatuers of the style. Sort of the picture of the
beer, but with big ears and a long nose, you get the idea.

I will never forget Paddy Giffins gag me with smoke Rauch beer that won him
brewer of the year. This beer would be thrown out in Bamburg.

Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1565, 10/29/94