FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1581 (November 17, 1994) (Gateway)
  H.S.A (djfitzg)
  Re: lager starter temps ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  Buffalo Brewing (t.duchesneau)
  My Brew Day (Mike Inglis)
  Yeast cold storage, beer stability (Bob Jones)
  My Winter Welcome recipe, Growlers (Gary Bell)
  Brewsters run with the wo (kit.anderson)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1582 (November 18, 1994) (Gateway)
  cold starters/repitching ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Re: Porter ? (TWideman)
  Oatmeal stout (Jay Lonner)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1583 (November 19, 1994) (Gateway)
  Growlers (t.duchesneau)
  parallel yeast culturing questions (adam rich)
  Wort Cooling and Blow Off Q's (Thomas55)
  Re: Cat's Meow for SUDS (Philip Gravel)
  Old Cincinnati Beer styles ("nancy e. renner")
  priming with molasses (Eric Jaquay)
  Low Tide, American IPA recipe. (Erik Speckman)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 19 Nov 1994 02:36:10 -0000
From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1581 (November 17, 1994)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check
that the name has been entered correctly.)


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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 09:05:26 EST
From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: H.S.A

Greetings Fellow Brewers,
  I posted this request a few days ago and recieved no responses, so I'll
give this one more try. I dont have access to back issues of Zymurgy so please
dont reference me to them if possible.
I'd like some more information on H.S.A. What are the causes, and what are
the consequences, will the affects greatly influence the quality of the
finished product, and so on.
H.S.A. has been mentioned in quite a few postings, but I havnt seen anyone
really explain in detail what causes this and what are the results.
Please post to the forum, as I'm quite sure their are others wondering the
same as I am..

Secondly, for all grain brewing porter lovers out their,
If you havnt brewed Papazians Silver Dollar Porter, give it a shot, it is
truly an outstanding recipe(IMHO). The only thing I added, which may not
have had that much influence, was 1/2lb flaked oats.

Thanks For All The Info,
Dan FitzGerald        djfitzg at vnet.ibm.com

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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 10:32:36 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: lager starter temps

Regarding the lager starters:

I agree with Spencer's recommendation for starting 
the yeast at fermentation temperatures (48-55 deg F 
depending on the yeast strain).  As Al K. pointed out 
you really want an abundant quantity of yeast to pitch,
however that yeast needs to be adapted to the environment
for optimum fermentation.  The best solution is to begin
your starter more than one week before you plan to brew
and step it up at least twice to get an adequate cell
count for pitching into the chilled wort.

My fear about warmer starters is that the cellular enzymes
that create fruity esters will be present in the yeast at 
the time of pitching and produce uncharacteristic aromas
to a lager.  Patience and planning are key to make a good 
lager.
JEFF M. MICHALSKI
michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu


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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 17:11:00 UTC
From: t.duchesneau at genie.geis.com
Subject: Buffalo Brewing

  I had a similar problem with spoiled Buffalo Brewing products a few months
ago.  It occured in three different products purchased at two different
stores here in the Albany NY area.  They all had a similar sour taste and a
precipitate which I can only describe as "crud" in the bottom.  In all three
instances, the stores took the stuff back.  One also indicated that I wasn't
the first to return Buffalo products.
 
  There's plenty of other beers on the market, so I decided to stop buying
Buffalo products.
 
                                ...Tom

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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 09:38:10 -0800
From: minglis at ix.netcom.com (Mike Inglis)
Subject: My Brew Day

I'm posting this for two reasons:  1) To possibly get feedback on my 
brewing techniques in the hope of improving them.  2) To possibly give 
others some good ideas on ways to improve their brewing.

My brew day starts about 5 days prior to actual brewing with starting a 
fresh packet of Wyeast.  I used to culture yeast but I brew somewhat 
infrequently now and have found that it's worth it to me to just buy a 
new packet.  I pop the Wyeast for a day and then add it to a 1 quart 
starter at about 1.040 for the next four days.  The day before brewing, 
I boil 8.5 gallons of water for mash and sparge.  I have very hard water 
here in Santa Clara and have found a great advantage in removing most of 
the carbonates.  I use 3 enamel-on-steel pots (2 32qt pots, and 1 24qt 
pot) for my all-grain setup.  I installed spigots in all of the pots and 
1 of the 32qt pots has an easymasher type screen attached.  I generally 
start with a mash-in of 1.25qts of water/lb. grain in my 32qt tun with 
the screen assembly.  I brew ales exclusively (I don't have room for an 
extra refrigerator) and my mash schedule has changed recently due to the 
great article written by George Fix on Yield (I don't remember which HBD 
it was in).  I mash-in for 30 mins at 104F and include all grist that 
will be mashed (including any CaraPils and excluding any darker 
specialty malts).  I always check for a pH of ~5.3 but have not had to 
adjust the mash since I began boiling my water.  Then I raise the 
temperature to 140F and 158F successively for a total rest of 1 hour.  
The times at each temperature depend on how sweet I want the beer (e.g. 
40 mins at 140F and 20 mins at 158F for a drier beer and vice versa for 
a sweeter beer).  As I bring the mash up to conversion temp., I heat up 
my oven to 150F and when the mash is at the correct temp., I turn the 
oven off and put the tun in the oven to effectively eliminate heat loss 
during the rest.  Once the conversion time is up, I add any specialty 
grains and mash-out at 168F, take it off of the heat, and let it sit for 
5 mins.  My 5.5 gals. of sparge water are acidified with 100ml of a 
Lactic Acid solution (.75 cup water + 1/2 tsp 80% Lactic Acid) to bring 
the pH down to ~5.3, and then heated up to 175F.  Then I set up a 3 
tiered gravity lautering system with milk crates right next to my 
kitchen stove with the 24qt hot liqour tank on top , the 32qt 
mash/lauter tun in the middle, and the 32qt boiling kettle on the stove. 
 I need to replace the 24qt pot with a 32qt pot as the 24qt doesn't hold 
all of the sparge water and I have to add more in the middle of the 
sparge.  Using the spigots on the kettles and some tubing, I set the 
sparge water and the mash runnings at the same outflow levels and sparge 
until all of the sparge water is gone.  I begin heating the wort when 
the kettle is ~1/4 full.  I boil for 90mins, adding boiling hops at 
60mins at the earliest and then following whatever schedule of 
ingredients I happen to have.  I rehydrate 1 tsp of Irish Moss in warm 
water and add 15mins before the end of the boil.  After the boil, I use 
an immersion chiller to chill the wort and then whirlpool it.  After it 
settles, I use the spigot on the kettle to drain it into my carboy and 
pitch the yeast.

Those are the highlights of my brew day, a total of about 6 hours.  I 
have found my setup to be fairly efficient for me.  What I like the 
most:  the three tiered easymasher type lautering system is very low 
maintenance and works great.  I get about 29pts efficiency, which is 
fine by me.  What I like the least:  my water (before boiling) and my 
immersion chiller.  I am considering going with some kind of a 
counterflow chiller because it just takes too long to chill with the 
immersion chiller.

Hope this was worth the time to type it up.  If anyone has any feedback, 
good or bad, please let me know.  If anyone wants to know more detail 
about certain aspects of what I do, please don't hesitate to email me 
and ask.  Thanks for listening ....

Mike Inglis
minglis at ix.netcom.com
Santa Clara, CA

- -- 
Mike Inglis
minglis at ix.netcom.com

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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 10:14:55 +0800
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: Yeast cold storage, beer stability

Jim Busch writes....

>It is also important to remember that when a new stock of yeast is grown
>from a single cell, the true fermentation characteristics will not always
>appear for several generations of use.  In larger breweries, the first
>full size ferment is often dumped and the yeast harvested.  Some utilize
>blending to mask the early generations.  This is yet another reason to
>carefully harvest and store fermentation yeast for subsequent brews,
>provided storage is done quite cold and the yeast is stored for a brief
>period of time (~2 weeks without food).  For longer period storage, fresh
>wort should be used to feed the yeast.  I store my yeast in my cold storage
>frige which I use for yeast dropping and carbonating and this is held at 31F. 
>

Jim, how long have you waited before using that cold stored yeast? Have you
seen any problems when reusing a yeast that has been stored cold for over a
month?

Maribeth_Raines write about BAA bad beers......

>This has led me to wonder whether BAA 
>may or at least is becoming a dumping ground for some infected or 
>inferior microbrewed beers.  My experience with the smaller business 
>such as Gourmet Beer Society and Microbrew Express have been much 
>better mainly because the guys who run them are homebrewers and know...

Our club has also got alot of bad or poor quality East coast beers from BAA.
I have often wondered whether these beers are that bad on the East coast as
they seem on the West coast. I wonder if the West coast beers seem poor on
the East coast. All this points at stability problems. There isn't a better
stress test for beer than the back of a truck moving from one coast to the
other. Some of you may remember the article that Micah and I wrote on this
very topic in Zymurgy. Micah has been doing stress tests on his commercial
beers and sending them off to be tested at Coors. Micah, jump in here and
tell eveyone about your experiences!

Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 12:14:06 -0800
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: My Winter Welcome recipe, Growlers

Last week I bottled 5 gallons of Winter Ale that I created myself in the
recipe formulator of SudsW 3.1. My target brew was "Samuel Smith's 
Winter Welcome". The result is *so* good that I wanted to share it with 
y'all. This is my first recipe from scratch. I wanted a spicy beer 
without using spices so I used Bullion and Hallertauer hops to add their 
spicey overtones to the beer.

Emma Wedgewood's Winter Welcome [note to JK: (c), [;-)]]
(Recipe for 5 gallons)   

     7.5 lbs British Pale DME (from Brewer's Resource: yumm!)
     1.0 lb Pale Crystal (40L)
     2 oz Roast Barley
     1 lb  Clover Honey
     2 oz Malto-dextrin powder
     Hops*:    
          boil:       1.0 oz Fuggle plugs (4.3%)
                 1.25 oz Bullion pellets (9%)
          flavor:  0.75 oz E. Kent Golding pellets (5.4%)
                  0.25 oz Bullion pellets
          aroma:   0.5 oz E. Hallertauer pellets (4.7%)
          dry:    0.75 oz E. Kent Golding pellets
     Ale Yeast (I used Mendocino from a bottle of "Eye of the Hawk"
     and pitched about 1/2 gallon starter)   
*Note: The hopping above gives the following IBU's based on different
calculation methods: (1) SudsW 43.2,(2) Rager 75.7, (3) Tinseth 66.9,  
(4) Garetz 56.7, (5) Papazian 58.9
O.G. 1.072, F.G. 1.022 (Approx. 6% alcohol)

Boil was about 3 gallons with extract, grain broth, honey and maltose.
Pitched  at  76 F (used an immersion chiller). Initial fermentation was 
very fast - within only 3 days the krausen had fallen and within 5 days 
there was almost no bubbling from the airlock. Racked to secondary and 
dry hopped. Secondary was very slow, and took 3 weeks to stabilize SG. I 
had heard that Mendocino yeast is not a great attenuator, and also the 
English DME finishes higher than American, but this is only 69% apparent 
attenuation. This gives an actual attenuation of 57%. Wow! 

I was originally going to prime with gyle but there were too many 
variables on this one so I chickened out and primed with corn sugar -- 
at this point I didn't want to risk screwing up my Christmas beer, and 
such a great one at that. [Next time Spencer, I promise!] Primed for a 
total of 2.2 volumes CO2 using 3.5 oz corn sugar. 

Comments: This is a lovely winter ale (IMNSHO). It is heavy-bodied but
assertively bitter and has a lovely, rich red color almost bang-on for 
Sam Smith's Winter Welcome. And it has the spiciness I was looking for. 
But it certainly isn't SSWW and, in fact, I think I like it more because 
of the hoppiness. It's only been in the bottle a week and I'd planned to 
condition it for 4 before serving: hope it lasts that long [;-)]. I 
can't tell yet about the head retention and it will probably take the 
full 4 weeks for the carbonation to fully develop, but I think it will 
be fine. This is definitely the best beer I've ever brewed and it's such 
a delight that it's from my own recipe [:-D]. If I wasn't already sold 
on SudsW, this would have done it for sure [no affiliation, etc.].

By the way the name, Emma Wedgewood's Winter Welcome, needs some
explanation. I'm an evolutionary ecologist and all my recipes have
evolution-oriented names. Emma was Charles Darwin's wife. Emma was
actually from the Wedgewood family of fine china fame, so old Chuck
married into money, but I'm sure he still enjoyed a good pint at
Christmas [;-)]!

If you try EMWW let me know what you think [if you're not a dedicated 
hophead you might want to tone it down 10-20%]! Happy, and in this case
*very* hoppy, brewing.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Also, Jeff Stampes (jeff at neocad.com) asked about Growlers

>I just got a catalog from U.S. Brewers in Albany (Usual Disclaimer)
>and saw an item I've never heard of before . . . A 'Growler'

>It's a 2-Liter Amber bottle with a decorative handle and a 
>Grolsch-Type swing-top.  It sounds like a great idea, but they're
>charging $17.95 for them!  You'd need to spend $180 to buy the 10
>you'd need for a batch of beer, and at that cost, you may as well
>buy yourself brand new kegs!

>I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these,
>or if you know of a place to get them cheaper

>From popular usage out here a 'Growler' is any 1/2 gallon glass jug used 
to hold beer. A lot of breweries use the 1/2 gallon apple juice jugs, 
but they are not tempered glass; some brewery received a complaint from 
a patron after their cold growler exploded in their hot car showering 
them with tiny glass shrapnel. Because of this many breweries won't use 
them any more. The bottles Jeff asks about are indeed 1/2 gallon 
tempered glass with the bail tops. I bought four for $6 each from 
California Glass Co in Oakland (510-635-7700), so your $17.95 quote 
seems to be quite the mark-up. Also, our local brewery, Blind Pig 
Brewery in Temecula, CA, just got these in and bottles with them.
They sell them for about $8 empty or $16 full [:-)]. Again, all usual 
disclaimers apply...

Cheers,

Gary 

- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Bell				   "Quis dolor cui dolium?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 12:40:09 -0400
From: kit.anderson at acornbbs.com
Subject: Brewsters run with the wo


TO: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com


  BREWSTERS RUN WITH THE WOLVES
  by Madame Marie Mains of IEB
 (Inland Empire Brewers, San Bernadino, CA)

  What I decided was that it would be nice to let you male brewers
into  a few 'inner sanctum' secrets of brewsters-that term being
the  official and proper name for female brewers.  Calling us
female  brewers sounds like we toss a few women into the boil
kettle to get  flavor ,something you guys think creates a new
specialty category  area. There'd probably be a stampede to judge
that one by you  boys as  well. I figured that you male types
really could use an insight into  the distinct differences we
brewsters brew by and will clue you in  over the next few months
via this newsletter. Consider it sort of a  peephole thru the
kitchen wall if you will . This first installment  will cover the
differences women face in the set up + brewing process.
   There are several areas where men and women set up their
equipment differently in preparing for a batch. No self respecting
brewer ever admits to his peers that HIS kitchen is without a few
gadgets; by this I mean technotwists on the basics.Since the days
of  the drafty caves, we women know better than to collect many pots 
and  pans since we usually clean up. We also had to pack them up
for that  trip to the next valley of the horses(or bison,or
whatever was in  season).This has translated to todays' brewsters
kitchen which is kept  rather simple with some kind of large
brewpot,that when full of hot  wort ,will still be liftable
[unless there's an available male to bat  ones' eyes at or
otherwise direct] off the stove. Some of us may  invest in a wort
chiller but the sight of those copper coils sends  chilly memories
of killer IUD's through our collective mind and we  usually skip
the technical additives like that. A large spoon , left  over from
beating the kids bottoms works fine for stirring and every
utensil drawer has the usual random measuring spoon, unless the
kids  have it in the sandbox out back.
   We like it simple, guys, because we also get to clean -up our  
messes. We seldom have the luxury of having a wife to wash up our  
adventures in the kitchen, so besides the one brewpot,etc,there's not  
much else.
   One thing that brewsters always have that many brewers  don't is a
scale that reads in ounces. I really think that Weight  Watchers
should market those scales for brewing purposes because mine  has
weighed out many a batch of hops , corn sugar and specialty grain.
Although I've gained a  few pounds ...my good ol' WW scale is
still  accurate.
  When brewsters advance to partial or all grain mashing we do  add 
the obligatory grain grinder to our repertoire. My experience is  that 
women generally fine tune their grinders better than men[you can  
quote me here] because of a simple anatomical difference... we have  
breasts. You heard me right on that one . You'll never catch a women  
fiddling with their grinder after its started or leaning over the top  
of it to check the feed flow. So we take more care in the initial  
setting up of this high quality equipment! I'm also sure that the  
turning of the crank has some deeper Freudian meaning , so we prefer a
steady rhythm for that as well. I've even caught myself staring at the
ceiling  and considering repainting it once or twice while grinding 15  
lbs. of grain.
   Fashion has to do with another significant area  of difference  
between boys and girls. Many brewers ,when transferring the cooled  
wort from pot to fermenter,go slowly to catch the trub. Guys - get a  
life .We brewsters have a technoid trade secret to let you in on  
regarding your troubles here. It's also ecological and is recycling in  
the first degree. Instead of throwing away those torn pantyhose , just  
stretch the good leg over the top of your brewpot and filter out the  
wort from the trub. Just pour away and aerate the hell out of that  
gyle. You'll get better fermentations from it too! ! !
  Well that's about all for this issue . I can't spill all of  our 
secrets in one run with you hounds.  Go ahead and do some male  
bonding after reading this installment and feel free to get out in the  
woods to beat on upturned mashtuns and brewpots to disseminate your  
agony.

Kit Anderson <kit.anderson at acornbbs.com>
*
- ---
 * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

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Date: 19 Nov 1994 12:01:32 -0000
From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1582 (November 18, 1994)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check
that the name has been entered correctly.)


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Date: 19 Nov 1994 18:11:17 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: cold starters/repitching

Subject:  cold starters/repitching


{start quote}

*from Spencer Thomas:
*>Algis R. Korzonas wrote about starters for lagers: 
*> > >1a. Should I have made that yeast starter at my Fermenting
*> > >Temperature of 48F instead of 68F?
*>
*>> No.  Making a starter is all about yeast growth, whereas fermentation is
*>>another beast altogether.  Starters for both ale and lager should be made
at
*>>room temperature (around 70-75F).
*>
*>I have to disagree here, Al.  My yeast supplier (owner of the Yeast
*>Culture Kit Company) has told me to grow my lager starters cold,
*>especially with certain yeasts (e.g., the "Munich" strain, as I
*>recall).  He claims that when the starter is grown warm, the yeast
*>"get used to it", and not work well at the cooler lager fermentation
*>temperature (or will throw more "interesting" flavors and aromas than
*>they should).  He said that this is one reason that the "Munich"
*>strain has a reputation for being "unstable" -- that most homebrewers
*>grow the starter warm and then expect it to work cold.

{end quote}

In response to this I received (privately) the following message.

?Then this is contrary to everything else I've read about starters
?for lagers.  If Dan could point me to an article that supports this 
?method, I would be most interested.

It occurs to me that this may be a common idea among homebrewers.

You will probably not find a reference for cold culture propagation 
in the *homebrew* literature.   I would recommend DeClerck, A 
Textbook of Brewing, Vol 1, pg 424-6.  Fred Scheer, formerly of the 
Frankenmuth Brewing Co. and now of Pabst, INSISTED that his cultures 
be prepared from an all-malt wort at the proper temperatures.  He was 
really fussy that way.  He is also a highly skilled brewer.

I'll stand by Spencers basic statements (I'm not particularly 
fond of his terminology, but what the heck) with the following 
points of clarification.  Spencer was making a lager in which he 
was trying to minimize esters and fruit (after taking a humbling 
bruising from a judge that detected a trace of fruitiness in his 
lager).    He was questing and willing to go the extra mile.

Think like a fussy pro brewer.  To promote a rapid, clean and 
complete lager ferment you must pitch a large volume of clean, 
HEALTHY yeast AT fermentation temps (8-10C max). The best way 
to achieve a good cell count (10-15 million cells/mL) is to repitch.  
A repitching implies that the first brew is fermented at the proper 
temperature.  The second best way is to make a HUGE starter, on 
the order of 1/4 to 1/5 of the batch size, or a >1 gallon starter in 
a 5 gallon batch.  

Brewers know that after the first batch the yeast adapts to the individual 
brewery environment: wort composition, fermentation temperature, 
fermenter geometry etc.  In some cases the first batch is blended into 
subsequent batches to save money.  The point is that it is not of the 
same quality.  

Of course, this all takes extra time and planning.  At least a week 
or two ahead to make a brew is required.  Try it, I think you will be
impressed.   

DanMcC in AnnArbor, MI
daniel.f.mcconnell at med.umich.edu



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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 18:33:54 -0500
From: TWideman at aol.com
Subject: Re: Porter ?

In HBD 1583, CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS) writes:

>>>Would one of you kind folks with access to a style manual please post
>>>the listing for a Porter...

Papazian's TNCJOHB, p. 162 (beer styles table) lists porter as:

     O.G. ......................... 1.040 to 1.050 (10 to 12.5 balling)
     % Alcohol (by volume) ........ 4.5 to 6
     Hopping (IBUs) ............... 25 to 35
     Color (SRM) .................. 25-35

I'm brewing one tomorrow, so I hope he's right! <g>

Regards,
Tom Wideman (TWideman at aol.com)


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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 16:33:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Oatmeal stout

I am interested in brewing an all-grain oatmeal stout.  I have looked through
Miller, both Papazian books, the Cat's Meow, and the recent zymurgy special
issue on funky adjuncts in order to acquaint myself with recipes and procedures
for making this kind of beer.  But I still have some basic questions about
oatmeal stout, particularly with regard to the grain bill.

Most of the recipes that I have seen call for using British pale malt as the
base malt.  Some recipes even call for a one-step infusion mash, even though
all my books suggest a protein rest when using oatmeal.  Miller (in his recipe
for dry stout) suggests using 2-row lager malt as the base malt to deal with
the beta-glucans and high molecular weight proteins introduced by the use of
flaked barley.  I imagine that oatmeal is just as glutinous as flaked barley,
so I'm wondering if lager malt might be the better choice for oatmeal stout as
well.  Its use may not be conventional in the brewing of ales, but I am more
interested in producing a good beer than adhering to strict English brewing
tradition.

I am also curious about which dark malts to use.  Is oatmeal stout considered a
sub-style of dry stout, calling for the use of roast barley?  Or would it be
more appropriate to use a combination of chocolate and black patent for taste
and color?

Here's a tentative grain bill for 5 gallons:

6 lbs. 2-row lager malt
1 lb. instant oatmeal
1/2 lb. roast barley
1/2 lb. black patent

With this combination of malts I would do half-hour rests at 40/50/60/70C and
maybe 1 oz. of 13.0% Chinook (60 minutes) for bittering.  I'm aiming for a
stout of only moderate alcoholic strength and plenty of smooth body.  Any
comments or suggestions? 

Jay Lonner * 8635660 at nessie.cc.wwu.edu * Bellingham, WA

P.S.  With the holidays coming up, what kind of brewing trinkets are you hoping
Santa will bring?  I'm holding out for a MaltMill(TM) and a digital pH meter.

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Date: 20 Nov 1994 02:17:49 -0000
From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1583 (November 19, 1994)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check
that the name has been entered correctly.)


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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 15:34:00 UTC
From: t.duchesneau at genie.geis.com
Subject: Growlers

  Jeff Stampes asks about the growlers sold by US Brewing Supply in Albany
NY (I was there yesterday).
 
  Brown and Moran's, our brew pub here in Troy NY, just up river from
Albany, sells growlers so that people can take their beer home.  I think
they are about $17 full and $7 for refills.  When I was there last Thursday
someone came in with 4 to fill.
 
  For those of you who keg, they are also convenient to transport beer for
tastings etc.  I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using them in lieu of
bottling or kegging.
 
                                ...Tom

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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 12:15:04 -0600 (CST)
From: adam rich <richa at Mayo.EDU>
Subject: parallel yeast culturing questions

Hello,
	I am considering useng a parallel culture system to save the cost 
of liquid yeast on my next several batches of beer.  I am relatively 
inexperienced (1 year, maybe 11 batches of extract brewing using some 
adjuncts).
	I did read the yeast.faq, Part 4, parallel yeast cultures.  As 
instructed, I plan to make a starter wort (my WYEAST package is now 
bulging), pour it into a 1 gallon glass jug, cool, shake vigorously, 
pour in the yeast, and put on the airlock.  
	My question is mainly on the method of storage, and the 
subsequent pitching.  I plan to store this in the 12 ounce grolsch 
bottles.  Can I merely sanatize as I usually would for bottling beer 
(1-step oxidizer with no rinse)?  Next, can I store these in the cupboard, 
like a normal beer, or do I need to refridgerate them?  I figure that I 
will have 4-6 bottles and I will more then likely use them over the 
following 6 monthes.
	Next Question: When I use these 'starter bottles' do I merely 
pitch them into 5 gallons of wort, the usual method for using the 
Wyeast yeast, or should I prepare a starter that is a larger volume?
	Next question: If I am organized...  Can I merely use the dregs 
from my secondary (is this is the so-called 'trub'?) for a second batch?  
I am considering making a sam-adams cream stout copy, followed by a 
stout, so the same yeast seems appropriate.  Is this reasonable of too 
risky?  I suppose that afer the siphon quits I would pour off the slurry, 
make my wort, pour into the glass carboy with the requisite cold water, 
and pour the slurry back in.  A two-for-the-price-of-one deal, sort of, 
and it shoudl save a little time in sanitizing too.
	Final question:  I have never aerated my wort before pitching the 
yeast.  How much of a problem coudl this be?  Am I lucky to have not had 
any problems?  My latest batch, a laglander lager, may have been stuck 
(when bottling it is very sweet-tasting.  So, after bottling all of it 
I began to worry.  I checked the SG and it was higher than most endpoints 
and was around 1.020 (not that I have never calibrated the hydrometer).  
I usually get around 1.010.  Also, I never did check the start point.  I 
rarely check this at both the start and finish.  Also, for this 
particular batch, I pitched dry yeast from a starter and it bubbled 
reasonably vigourously for several days.  I put the carboy in an outside 
hallway, rather than the kitchen, in hopes of a cooler fermenting 
temperature.  It sat in the secondary fr oaround 3 weeks, longer then 
usual so I was sure (?) that it was ready to bottle.  I have currently 
returned all of the bottles to the hallway and I plan to check them each 
day for overcarbonation.  The idea, admittedly not very scientific, is to 
pop a bottle open each day (grolsch-type bottles so they can be resealed)
and check the carbonation level.  I figure checking a bottle at random 
should tell me what they are doing.  If they seem to be on the way to 
bomb stage I will pop all of the caps and maybe put them back into the 
large glass carboy with a little fresh yeast (?) to ensure the complete 
carbonation.  
	Thanks for the answers to this long question list.  A reply to 
this digest is fine, or email to me.
Adam Rich
Rochester, MN
richa at mayo.edu

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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 16:29:28 -0500
From: Thomas55 at aol.com
Subject: Wort Cooling and Blow Off Q's

I've been reading the Digest for a couple of weeks now and I
must say I'm convinced that this is the best thing since liquid
yeast!
     I've brewed about 5 or 6 batches (wished I had heeded the
advice and kept better records!) so far that have ranged from an
extract and corn sugar batch to 8lbs of extract and added hops,
grains and spices with liquid yeast.  I'd like to pass on to any
other newcomers to this hobby that I've learned alot by starting
simple and learning what each new addition adds to the flavor, body
and texture of my beers.
     I've always kept an open attitude towards brewing styles and
techniques and have read nearly all the FAQ's (really great info
 - be sure to get these!) in your archives.  I've learned most of
my early techniques from Charlie Papazian's "The New Complete Joy
of Home Brewing" (not meant to be a plug - sorry).  I've noticed
some practices I've seen elsewhere and some I haven't seen anywhere
else and would like your comments on some of them.  In "How to Brew
Your First Beer" by John J. Palmer (available in your archives) Mr
Palmer raised some question about some of Papazians' practices.  
     Mr Palmer mentions that he doesn't like the practice of
pouring hot wort into cool water waiting in the carboy but doesn't
say why?  Does this harm or change potential flavors? Is there any
potential gain by ensuring that when the wort is cooled enough to
be susceptible to infection it is locked safely in a sanitized
fermenter?
     Another practice that Mr Palmer doesn't mention but I've seen
others recommend against is the use of a "blow off" tube for the
initial stages of fermentation.  I know that some worry about the
possibility of exploding glass and five gallons of wasted beer! 
I use this method but with out the stopper and small tubing
Papazian describes.  I use a single piece of tubing large enough
to fit snugly in the neck of the carboy - about an inch inside
diameter! ( I don't remember what size and since it is currently
in use I can't readily measure it!)  I don't see how anything could
clog this and cause any pressure buildup besides the slight
pressure of the 1 inch or so of water I submerge it in to keep out
any uninvited guests.  Am I missing something about this practice? 
Is there really any benefit of the removal of "excessively bitter
hop resins" as Papazian describes?  I also understand that the
Krausen (foam) may contain some concentration of fusel oils of
which it is a further benefit to reduce or eliminate from your
beer? 
     I hope these questions are of interest to the masses and look
forward to your comments!  


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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 18:51 CST
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Re: Cat's Meow for SUDS

===> Robert Waddell asks about the Cat's Meow for SUDS:

>I am looking for an archive site that would have "Sudscm".  It is the
>"Cats Meow" formatted for import into the "Sudsw" formulater for windows
>that is available at "Sierra.Stanford.Edu".  It is mentioned by the author
>(Michael C. Taylor) in the help file in "Sudsw", so I know it must exist
>somewhere.  If anyone knows of a site or has a copy they could E-mail to
>me I would be forever grateful.  Either post a reply here or E-mail.

It's available from the author when you register your shareware version of
SUDS.  It's an inducement to register your use of SUDS.  The registration
fee is modest, about $20 if I recall correctly.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 20:11:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Old Cincinnati Beer styles

(From *Jeff* Renner)
Growing up in Cincinnati (College Hill) in the 1950's, I would 
occasionally be given a sip of beer - Burger, Schoenling, Hudepohl, 
Weidemann's.  Perhaps it was my innocent palate, but those beers seemed 
to have a flavor and aroma profile that I haven't found since.  They 
seemed to be so, well, in a word, "beery."  They seemed almost pungent, 
and slightly sour (not, I presume, defectively so).  I occasionally get 
a faint whiff of this evocative aroma when opening an American Pilsner, 
but it is fleeting.

I hope to recreate an old Cincinnati beer.  Probably a great part of this 
is the hopeless chasing of childhood memories of an exaggerated scale 
(remember how BIG your elementary classrooms were, and how TALL the tree 
in front of your first house was?).  Will-o'-the-whisp or not, I solicit 
digesters, especially from Cincinnati, for any information they may have 
on these beers, especially grist bill, hopping types and levels, and 
yeasts.  Are any of you in touch with old brewers?  Does Hudepohl's 
brewer share info?  Or their corporate office?  (I think that Christian 
Moerlein in a nice beer, but probably has more to do with the marketing 
department than historical fact).  Does Hudepohl share their yeast?

I have Brewing Techniques' article on Pre-prohibition Lagers by 
George Fix and the one on Bushwick Pilsners by  Ben Jankowski.  (If I 
still lived in the Queen City, I'd love to research and write a similar 
article on Cincinnati beers - maybe one of you folks down there can do it 
for me.)  I have also read William Downard's "The Cincinnati Brewing 
Industry: A Social and Economic History," Ohio Univ. Press (1973), a very 
good book but not at all technical.

Thanks and I hope the rest of the HBD may find any results of this request 
useful as well.  I will post any success I have.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, MI c/o nerenner at umich.edu

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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:26:27 -0800
From: Eric Jaquay <erjaq at wopr.gsm.uci.edu>
Subject: priming with molasses


I just opened the third disappointing bottle of a stout that I primed 
with molasses.   The head is indeed impressive: tan, creamy, and 
persistent.  The flavor, however, is horrible.  All molasses!!!  It's 
kind of like drinking a bottle of Guinness with a pat of butter.  I used 
one cup of the blackstrap variety, as per Papazian's guidelines.  

Has anyone else done this before?   Does the flavor mellow with age?  I 
bottled about six weeks ago, and I'll wait if anyone thinks that the
molasses-y flavor will dissipate, but there's no way I could drink these 
as they are.  I'm so distraught by the whole predicament that I've had to 
open one of my Orange-Cranberry holiday libations a bit prematurely, just 
to raise my spirits.  !Que sabrosa!

Posting or private e-mail will suit me just fine.

Eric Jaquay

P.S.-This is my first post to the list after lurking for a while, and I 
wanted to say that this is an incredible resource and I have learned a 
great deal.  Thanks!

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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:44:35 -0800
From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Low Tide, American IPA recipe.

Ulick Stafford writes about the shortfall of posts in recent Homebrew
digests and pleads with people to post some long, interesting articles.
Ignoring that...

I am not suprised that posting is at low tide. I think a number of people
have probably been giving the HBD some distance after the Clay Glenn
Fiasco.  Some were probably put off by the debate started when people
expressed their dissatisfaction with  plan to sell hardcopys of the HBD
and others by the nasty backlash.

This forum was used by a vocal minority to utter broad insults against the
complaintants, many of whom are/were longtime contributers to the HBD.  Who
knows what insults they suffered by e-mail?  They may be wondering why they
post@ all.  People on the sidelines of the whole spat may have decided to
let things blow over before even reading the HBD.

Quite apart from that,  I think this is a busy time of year for people.
Students and professors have to deal with midterms.  People are gearing up
for the holiday season.  Projects started in haste and guilt at the end of
summer, or renewed after a summer of neglect, are starting to show results.
Most of all, with the cool weather people are too busy brewing to write
about brewing.

- ----------

But enough of that.  Several weeks ago I brewed my first partial mash where
I used a significant amount of grain.  It has been in the bottle about a
month now and after extensive QC I think it is safe to post the recipe here
without fear of recrimination.



Erik's American IPA #1

I was trying to come up with something like Anchor liberty ale.  I haven't
tried them side by side so I won't guess how close I came.

OG.     1.060
IBU     50      (est)


6       lbs.    American Pale 2-row
0.75    lbs.    60L American Crystal.
0.25    lbs.    Carapils
4.25    lbs.    M&F Bulk Pale LME.       at 25 minutes.
0.5     oz.     Nugget Hops (11.8%AA)    at 100 minutes to end
0.5     oz      Nugget                   at 40
0.5     oz.     Cascade (6.5% AA)        at 30
0.5     oz.     Cascade                  at 15
0.5     oz.     Cascade                  at 8
0.33    oz.     Cascade                  at 0
Wyeast 1028? London Ale!

Dry hopped in secondary for 8 days with whole hops.
1.5     oz.     Cascade
0.5     oz.     Nugget


A few notes.


I used 1 qt of water per lb of grain (7 qts total, soft, pre boiled seattle
water with 2 tsp of Gypsum) I used a short 20 minute protein rest and a
long 2 hr mash  at 156F for some residual body and sweetness in the finished
beer.

I only collected about 4.5 galons of wort because I don't have a big enough
brew pot.  I was within a point or two of my target OG based on my assumed
efficiency of 85% of Dave Miller's optimal numbers.  I boiled about 3.5 gal
wort with the hops in a 4 gal pot.  In another pot I boiled the remaining
sweet wort and added it to the main pot as space became available.

All hops were whole hops from the Hop Source (good hops, good prices, no
financial or personal interest).  I adjusted my IBU calculations for the
estimated SG in the main pot.  I assumed a more-or-less linear increace in
SG between the SG at the start of the boil and the estimated SG at the time
I added all runnings to the main pot.  When calculating the IBUs for the
early additions I did not try to take into account the dramatic boost in OG
over the last 25 minutes of the boil caused by the addition of the LME.

I cooled the wort over 40 minutes time in a covered kettle in a tub-full of
cold water.  Yeast was pitched at about 75F.  Fermenation proceeded at 60F.
Racked to carboy after 5 days, dry hopped for 8 before bottling.

The resulting beer was strong and well hopped.  The FG of 1.016 left it
with a medium body and a slight residual sweetness which was overbalanced
by hop-bitterness.  The flavor and aroma of the cascades was quite evident
after a month in the bottle.

This is my best beer to date, to make it better I will probably boost the
bittering hops a bit and cut out the extract to replace it with more pale
two-row.


__________________________________________________________________________
Erik A. Speckman         Seattle, Washington       Good Brain Doesn't Suck
especkma at reed.edu                                     especkma at halcyon.com
Copyright, 1994 Erik Speckman. May be freely copied for non-commercial use



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1584, 11/21/94