HOMEBREW Digest #1584 Mon 21 November 1994

Digest #1583 Digest #1585

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1581 (November 17, 1994) (Gateway)
  H.S.A (djfitzg)
  Re: lager starter temps ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  Buffalo Brewing (t.duchesneau)
  My Brew Day (Mike Inglis)
  Yeast cold storage, beer stability (Bob Jones)
  My Winter Welcome recipe, Growlers (Gary Bell)
  Brewsters run with the wo (kit.anderson)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1582 (November 18, 1994) (Gateway)
  cold starters/repitching ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Re: Porter ? (TWideman)
  Oatmeal stout (Jay Lonner)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1583 (November 19, 1994) (Gateway)
  Growlers (t.duchesneau)
  parallel yeast culturing questions (adam rich)
  Wort Cooling and Blow Off Q's (Thomas55)
  Re: Cat's Meow for SUDS (Philip Gravel)
  Old Cincinnati Beer styles ("nancy e. renner")
  priming with molasses (Eric Jaquay)
  Low Tide, American IPA recipe. (Erik Speckman)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Nov 1994 02:36:10 -0000 From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway) Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1581 (November 17, 1994) Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 09:05:26 EST From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM Subject: H.S.A Greetings Fellow Brewers, I posted this request a few days ago and recieved no responses, so I'll give this one more try. I dont have access to back issues of Zymurgy so please dont reference me to them if possible. I'd like some more information on H.S.A. What are the causes, and what are the consequences, will the affects greatly influence the quality of the finished product, and so on. H.S.A. has been mentioned in quite a few postings, but I havnt seen anyone really explain in detail what causes this and what are the results. Please post to the forum, as I'm quite sure their are others wondering the same as I am.. Secondly, for all grain brewing porter lovers out their, If you havnt brewed Papazians Silver Dollar Porter, give it a shot, it is truly an outstanding recipe(IMHO). The only thing I added, which may not have had that much influence, was 1/2lb flaked oats. Thanks For All The Info, Dan FitzGerald djfitzg at vnet.ibm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 10:32:36 -0500 From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu> Subject: Re: lager starter temps Regarding the lager starters: I agree with Spencer's recommendation for starting the yeast at fermentation temperatures (48-55 deg F depending on the yeast strain). As Al K. pointed out you really want an abundant quantity of yeast to pitch, however that yeast needs to be adapted to the environment for optimum fermentation. The best solution is to begin your starter more than one week before you plan to brew and step it up at least twice to get an adequate cell count for pitching into the chilled wort. My fear about warmer starters is that the cellular enzymes that create fruity esters will be present in the yeast at the time of pitching and produce uncharacteristic aromas to a lager. Patience and planning are key to make a good lager. JEFF M. MICHALSKI michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 94 17:11:00 UTC From: t.duchesneau at genie.geis.com Subject: Buffalo Brewing I had a similar problem with spoiled Buffalo Brewing products a few months ago. It occured in three different products purchased at two different stores here in the Albany NY area. They all had a similar sour taste and a precipitate which I can only describe as "crud" in the bottom. In all three instances, the stores took the stuff back. One also indicated that I wasn't the first to return Buffalo products. There's plenty of other beers on the market, so I decided to stop buying Buffalo products. ...Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 09:38:10 -0800 From: minglis at ix.netcom.com (Mike Inglis) Subject: My Brew Day I'm posting this for two reasons: 1) To possibly get feedback on my brewing techniques in the hope of improving them. 2) To possibly give others some good ideas on ways to improve their brewing. My brew day starts about 5 days prior to actual brewing with starting a fresh packet of Wyeast. I used to culture yeast but I brew somewhat infrequently now and have found that it's worth it to me to just buy a new packet. I pop the Wyeast for a day and then add it to a 1 quart starter at about 1.040 for the next four days. The day before brewing, I boil 8.5 gallons of water for mash and sparge. I have very hard water here in Santa Clara and have found a great advantage in removing most of the carbonates. I use 3 enamel-on-steel pots (2 32qt pots, and 1 24qt pot) for my all-grain setup. I installed spigots in all of the pots and 1 of the 32qt pots has an easymasher type screen attached. I generally start with a mash-in of 1.25qts of water/lb. grain in my 32qt tun with the screen assembly. I brew ales exclusively (I don't have room for an extra refrigerator) and my mash schedule has changed recently due to the great article written by George Fix on Yield (I don't remember which HBD it was in). I mash-in for 30 mins at 104F and include all grist that will be mashed (including any CaraPils and excluding any darker specialty malts). I always check for a pH of ~5.3 but have not had to adjust the mash since I began boiling my water. Then I raise the temperature to 140F and 158F successively for a total rest of 1 hour. The times at each temperature depend on how sweet I want the beer (e.g. 40 mins at 140F and 20 mins at 158F for a drier beer and vice versa for a sweeter beer). As I bring the mash up to conversion temp., I heat up my oven to 150F and when the mash is at the correct temp., I turn the oven off and put the tun in the oven to effectively eliminate heat loss during the rest. Once the conversion time is up, I add any specialty grains and mash-out at 168F, take it off of the heat, and let it sit for 5 mins. My 5.5 gals. of sparge water are acidified with 100ml of a Lactic Acid solution (.75 cup water + 1/2 tsp 80% Lactic Acid) to bring the pH down to ~5.3, and then heated up to 175F. Then I set up a 3 tiered gravity lautering system with milk crates right next to my kitchen stove with the 24qt hot liqour tank on top , the 32qt mash/lauter tun in the middle, and the 32qt boiling kettle on the stove. I need to replace the 24qt pot with a 32qt pot as the 24qt doesn't hold all of the sparge water and I have to add more in the middle of the sparge. Using the spigots on the kettles and some tubing, I set the sparge water and the mash runnings at the same outflow levels and sparge until all of the sparge water is gone. I begin heating the wort when the kettle is ~1/4 full. I boil for 90mins, adding boiling hops at 60mins at the earliest and then following whatever schedule of ingredients I happen to have. I rehydrate 1 tsp of Irish Moss in warm water and add 15mins before the end of the boil. After the boil, I use an immersion chiller to chill the wort and then whirlpool it. After it settles, I use the spigot on the kettle to drain it into my carboy and pitch the yeast. Those are the highlights of my brew day, a total of about 6 hours. I have found my setup to be fairly efficient for me. What I like the most: the three tiered easymasher type lautering system is very low maintenance and works great. I get about 29pts efficiency, which is fine by me. What I like the least: my water (before boiling) and my immersion chiller. I am considering going with some kind of a counterflow chiller because it just takes too long to chill with the immersion chiller. Hope this was worth the time to type it up. If anyone has any feedback, good or bad, please let me know. If anyone wants to know more detail about certain aspects of what I do, please don't hesitate to email me and ask. Thanks for listening .... Mike Inglis minglis at ix.netcom.com Santa Clara, CA - -- Mike Inglis minglis at ix.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 10:14:55 +0800 From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones) Subject: Yeast cold storage, beer stability Jim Busch writes.... >It is also important to remember that when a new stock of yeast is grown >from a single cell, the true fermentation characteristics will not always >appear for several generations of use. In larger breweries, the first >full size ferment is often dumped and the yeast harvested. Some utilize >blending to mask the early generations. This is yet another reason to >carefully harvest and store fermentation yeast for subsequent brews, >provided storage is done quite cold and the yeast is stored for a brief >period of time (~2 weeks without food). For longer period storage, fresh >wort should be used to feed the yeast. I store my yeast in my cold storage >frige which I use for yeast dropping and carbonating and this is held at 31F. > Jim, how long have you waited before using that cold stored yeast? Have you seen any problems when reusing a yeast that has been stored cold for over a month? Maribeth_Raines write about BAA bad beers...... >This has led me to wonder whether BAA >may or at least is becoming a dumping ground for some infected or >inferior microbrewed beers. My experience with the smaller business >such as Gourmet Beer Society and Microbrew Express have been much >better mainly because the guys who run them are homebrewers and know... Our club has also got alot of bad or poor quality East coast beers from BAA. I have often wondered whether these beers are that bad on the East coast as they seem on the West coast. I wonder if the West coast beers seem poor on the East coast. All this points at stability problems. There isn't a better stress test for beer than the back of a truck moving from one coast to the other. Some of you may remember the article that Micah and I wrote on this very topic in Zymurgy. Micah has been doing stress tests on his commercial beers and sending them off to be tested at Coors. Micah, jump in here and tell eveyone about your experiences! Bob Jones bjones at bdt.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 12:14:06 -0800 From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell) Subject: My Winter Welcome recipe, Growlers Last week I bottled 5 gallons of Winter Ale that I created myself in the recipe formulator of SudsW 3.1. My target brew was "Samuel Smith's Winter Welcome". The result is *so* good that I wanted to share it with y'all. This is my first recipe from scratch. I wanted a spicy beer without using spices so I used Bullion and Hallertauer hops to add their spicey overtones to the beer. Emma Wedgewood's Winter Welcome [note to JK: (c), [;-)]] (Recipe for 5 gallons) 7.5 lbs British Pale DME (from Brewer's Resource: yumm!) 1.0 lb Pale Crystal (40L) 2 oz Roast Barley 1 lb Clover Honey 2 oz Malto-dextrin powder Hops*: boil: 1.0 oz Fuggle plugs (4.3%) 1.25 oz Bullion pellets (9%) flavor: 0.75 oz E. Kent Golding pellets (5.4%) 0.25 oz Bullion pellets aroma: 0.5 oz E. Hallertauer pellets (4.7%) dry: 0.75 oz E. Kent Golding pellets Ale Yeast (I used Mendocino from a bottle of "Eye of the Hawk" and pitched about 1/2 gallon starter) *Note: The hopping above gives the following IBU's based on different calculation methods: (1) SudsW 43.2,(2) Rager 75.7, (3) Tinseth 66.9, (4) Garetz 56.7, (5) Papazian 58.9 O.G. 1.072, F.G. 1.022 (Approx. 6% alcohol) Boil was about 3 gallons with extract, grain broth, honey and maltose. Pitched at 76 F (used an immersion chiller). Initial fermentation was very fast - within only 3 days the krausen had fallen and within 5 days there was almost no bubbling from the airlock. Racked to secondary and dry hopped. Secondary was very slow, and took 3 weeks to stabilize SG. I had heard that Mendocino yeast is not a great attenuator, and also the English DME finishes higher than American, but this is only 69% apparent attenuation. This gives an actual attenuation of 57%. Wow! I was originally going to prime with gyle but there were too many variables on this one so I chickened out and primed with corn sugar -- at this point I didn't want to risk screwing up my Christmas beer, and such a great one at that. [Next time Spencer, I promise!] Primed for a total of 2.2 volumes CO2 using 3.5 oz corn sugar. Comments: This is a lovely winter ale (IMNSHO). It is heavy-bodied but assertively bitter and has a lovely, rich red color almost bang-on for Sam Smith's Winter Welcome. And it has the spiciness I was looking for. But it certainly isn't SSWW and, in fact, I think I like it more because of the hoppiness. It's only been in the bottle a week and I'd planned to condition it for 4 before serving: hope it lasts that long [;-)]. I can't tell yet about the head retention and it will probably take the full 4 weeks for the carbonation to fully develop, but I think it will be fine. This is definitely the best beer I've ever brewed and it's such a delight that it's from my own recipe [:-D]. If I wasn't already sold on SudsW, this would have done it for sure [no affiliation, etc.]. By the way the name, Emma Wedgewood's Winter Welcome, needs some explanation. I'm an evolutionary ecologist and all my recipes have evolution-oriented names. Emma was Charles Darwin's wife. Emma was actually from the Wedgewood family of fine china fame, so old Chuck married into money, but I'm sure he still enjoyed a good pint at Christmas [;-)]! If you try EMWW let me know what you think [if you're not a dedicated hophead you might want to tone it down 10-20%]! Happy, and in this case *very* hoppy, brewing. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Also, Jeff Stampes (jeff at neocad.com) asked about Growlers >I just got a catalog from U.S. Brewers in Albany (Usual Disclaimer) >and saw an item I've never heard of before . . . A 'Growler' >It's a 2-Liter Amber bottle with a decorative handle and a >Grolsch-Type swing-top. It sounds like a great idea, but they're >charging $17.95 for them! You'd need to spend $180 to buy the 10 >you'd need for a batch of beer, and at that cost, you may as well >buy yourself brand new kegs! >I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these, >or if you know of a place to get them cheaper >From popular usage out here a 'Growler' is any 1/2 gallon glass jug used to hold beer. A lot of breweries use the 1/2 gallon apple juice jugs, but they are not tempered glass; some brewery received a complaint from a patron after their cold growler exploded in their hot car showering them with tiny glass shrapnel. Because of this many breweries won't use them any more. The bottles Jeff asks about are indeed 1/2 gallon tempered glass with the bail tops. I bought four for $6 each from California Glass Co in Oakland (510-635-7700), so your $17.95 quote seems to be quite the mark-up. Also, our local brewery, Blind Pig Brewery in Temecula, CA, just got these in and bottles with them. They sell them for about $8 empty or $16 full [:-)]. Again, all usual disclaimers apply... Cheers, Gary - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary Bell "Quis dolor cui dolium?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 12:40:09 -0400 From: kit.anderson at acornbbs.com Subject: Brewsters run with the wo TO: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com BREWSTERS RUN WITH THE WOLVES by Madame Marie Mains of IEB (Inland Empire Brewers, San Bernadino, CA) What I decided was that it would be nice to let you male brewers into a few 'inner sanctum' secrets of brewsters-that term being the official and proper name for female brewers. Calling us female brewers sounds like we toss a few women into the boil kettle to get flavor ,something you guys think creates a new specialty category area. There'd probably be a stampede to judge that one by you boys as well. I figured that you male types really could use an insight into the distinct differences we brewsters brew by and will clue you in over the next few months via this newsletter. Consider it sort of a peephole thru the kitchen wall if you will . This first installment will cover the differences women face in the set up + brewing process. There are several areas where men and women set up their equipment differently in preparing for a batch. No self respecting brewer ever admits to his peers that HIS kitchen is without a few gadgets; by this I mean technotwists on the basics.Since the days of the drafty caves, we women know better than to collect many pots and pans since we usually clean up. We also had to pack them up for that trip to the next valley of the horses(or bison,or whatever was in season).This has translated to todays' brewsters kitchen which is kept rather simple with some kind of large brewpot,that when full of hot wort ,will still be liftable [unless there's an available male to bat ones' eyes at or otherwise direct] off the stove. Some of us may invest in a wort chiller but the sight of those copper coils sends chilly memories of killer IUD's through our collective mind and we usually skip the technical additives like that. A large spoon , left over from beating the kids bottoms works fine for stirring and every utensil drawer has the usual random measuring spoon, unless the kids have it in the sandbox out back. We like it simple, guys, because we also get to clean -up our messes. We seldom have the luxury of having a wife to wash up our adventures in the kitchen, so besides the one brewpot,etc,there's not much else. One thing that brewsters always have that many brewers don't is a scale that reads in ounces. I really think that Weight Watchers should market those scales for brewing purposes because mine has weighed out many a batch of hops , corn sugar and specialty grain. Although I've gained a few pounds ...my good ol' WW scale is still accurate. When brewsters advance to partial or all grain mashing we do add the obligatory grain grinder to our repertoire. My experience is that women generally fine tune their grinders better than men[you can quote me here] because of a simple anatomical difference... we have breasts. You heard me right on that one . You'll never catch a women fiddling with their grinder after its started or leaning over the top of it to check the feed flow. So we take more care in the initial setting up of this high quality equipment! I'm also sure that the turning of the crank has some deeper Freudian meaning , so we prefer a steady rhythm for that as well. I've even caught myself staring at the ceiling and considering repainting it once or twice while grinding 15 lbs. of grain. Fashion has to do with another significant area of difference between boys and girls. Many brewers ,when transferring the cooled wort from pot to fermenter,go slowly to catch the trub. Guys - get a life .We brewsters have a technoid trade secret to let you in on regarding your troubles here. It's also ecological and is recycling in the first degree. Instead of throwing away those torn pantyhose , just stretch the good leg over the top of your brewpot and filter out the wort from the trub. Just pour away and aerate the hell out of that gyle. You'll get better fermentations from it too! ! ! Well that's about all for this issue . I can't spill all of our secrets in one run with you hounds. Go ahead and do some male bonding after reading this installment and feel free to get out in the woods to beat on upturned mashtuns and brewpots to disseminate your agony. Kit Anderson <kit.anderson at acornbbs.com> * - --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY Return to table of contents
Date: 19 Nov 1994 12:01:32 -0000 From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway) Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1582 (November 18, 1994) Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) Return to table of contents
Date: 19 Nov 1994 18:11:17 -0500 From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu> Subject: cold starters/repitching Subject: cold starters/repitching {start quote} *from Spencer Thomas: *>Algis R. Korzonas wrote about starters for lagers: *> > >1a. Should I have made that yeast starter at my Fermenting *> > >Temperature of 48F instead of 68F? *> *>> No. Making a starter is all about yeast growth, whereas fermentation is *>>another beast altogether. Starters for both ale and lager should be made at *>>room temperature (around 70-75F). *> *>I have to disagree here, Al. My yeast supplier (owner of the Yeast *>Culture Kit Company) has told me to grow my lager starters cold, *>especially with certain yeasts (e.g., the "Munich" strain, as I *>recall). He claims that when the starter is grown warm, the yeast *>"get used to it", and not work well at the cooler lager fermentation *>temperature (or will throw more "interesting" flavors and aromas than *>they should). He said that this is one reason that the "Munich" *>strain has a reputation for being "unstable" -- that most homebrewers *>grow the starter warm and then expect it to work cold. {end quote} In response to this I received (privately) the following message. ?Then this is contrary to everything else I've read about starters ?for lagers. If Dan could point me to an article that supports this ?method, I would be most interested. It occurs to me that this may be a common idea among homebrewers. You will probably not find a reference for cold culture propagation in the *homebrew* literature. I would recommend DeClerck, A Textbook of Brewing, Vol 1, pg 424-6. Fred Scheer, formerly of the Frankenmuth Brewing Co. and now of Pabst, INSISTED that his cultures be prepared from an all-malt wort at the proper temperatures. He was really fussy that way. He is also a highly skilled brewer. I'll stand by Spencers basic statements (I'm not particularly fond of his terminology, but what the heck) with the following points of clarification. Spencer was making a lager in which he was trying to minimize esters and fruit (after taking a humbling bruising from a judge that detected a trace of fruitiness in his lager). He was questing and willing to go the extra mile. Think like a fussy pro brewer. To promote a rapid, clean and complete lager ferment you must pitch a large volume of clean, HEALTHY yeast AT fermentation temps (8-10C max). The best way to achieve a good cell count (10-15 million cells/mL) is to repitch. A repitching implies that the first brew is fermented at the proper temperature. The second best way is to make a HUGE starter, on the order of 1/4 to 1/5 of the batch size, or a >1 gallon starter in a 5 gallon batch. Brewers know that after the first batch the yeast adapts to the individual brewery environment: wort composition, fermentation temperature, fermenter geometry etc. In some cases the first batch is blended into subsequent batches to save money. The point is that it is not of the same quality. Of course, this all takes extra time and planning. At least a week or two ahead to make a brew is required. Try it, I think you will be impressed. DanMcC in AnnArbor, MI daniel.f.mcconnell at med.umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 18:33:54 -0500 From: TWideman at aol.com Subject: Re: Porter ? In HBD 1583, CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS) writes: >>>Would one of you kind folks with access to a style manual please post >>>the listing for a Porter... Papazian's TNCJOHB, p. 162 (beer styles table) lists porter as: O.G. ......................... 1.040 to 1.050 (10 to 12.5 balling) % Alcohol (by volume) ........ 4.5 to 6 Hopping (IBUs) ............... 25 to 35 Color (SRM) .................. 25-35 I'm brewing one tomorrow, so I hope he's right! <g> Regards, Tom Wideman (TWideman at aol.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 16:33:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU> Subject: Oatmeal stout I am interested in brewing an all-grain oatmeal stout. I have looked through Miller, both Papazian books, the Cat's Meow, and the recent zymurgy special issue on funky adjuncts in order to acquaint myself with recipes and procedures for making this kind of beer. But I still have some basic questions about oatmeal stout, particularly with regard to the grain bill. Most of the recipes that I have seen call for using British pale malt as the base malt. Some recipes even call for a one-step infusion mash, even though all my books suggest a protein rest when using oatmeal. Miller (in his recipe for dry stout) suggests using 2-row lager malt as the base malt to deal with the beta-glucans and high molecular weight proteins introduced by the use of flaked barley. I imagine that oatmeal is just as glutinous as flaked barley, so I'm wondering if lager malt might be the better choice for oatmeal stout as well. Its use may not be conventional in the brewing of ales, but I am more interested in producing a good beer than adhering to strict English brewing tradition. I am also curious about which dark malts to use. Is oatmeal stout considered a sub-style of dry stout, calling for the use of roast barley? Or would it be more appropriate to use a combination of chocolate and black patent for taste and color? Here's a tentative grain bill for 5 gallons: 6 lbs. 2-row lager malt 1 lb. instant oatmeal 1/2 lb. roast barley 1/2 lb. black patent With this combination of malts I would do half-hour rests at 40/50/60/70C and maybe 1 oz. of 13.0% Chinook (60 minutes) for bittering. I'm aiming for a stout of only moderate alcoholic strength and plenty of smooth body. Any comments or suggestions? Jay Lonner * 8635660 at nessie.cc.wwu.edu * Bellingham, WA P.S. With the holidays coming up, what kind of brewing trinkets are you hoping Santa will bring? I'm holding out for a MaltMill(TM) and a digital pH meter. Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Nov 1994 02:17:49 -0000 From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway) Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1583 (November 19, 1994) Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 15:34:00 UTC From: t.duchesneau at genie.geis.com Subject: Growlers Jeff Stampes asks about the growlers sold by US Brewing Supply in Albany NY (I was there yesterday). Brown and Moran's, our brew pub here in Troy NY, just up river from Albany, sells growlers so that people can take their beer home. I think they are about $17 full and $7 for refills. When I was there last Thursday someone came in with 4 to fill. For those of you who keg, they are also convenient to transport beer for tastings etc. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using them in lieu of bottling or kegging. ...Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 12:15:04 -0600 (CST) From: adam rich <richa at Mayo.EDU> Subject: parallel yeast culturing questions Hello, I am considering useng a parallel culture system to save the cost of liquid yeast on my next several batches of beer. I am relatively inexperienced (1 year, maybe 11 batches of extract brewing using some adjuncts). I did read the yeast.faq, Part 4, parallel yeast cultures. As instructed, I plan to make a starter wort (my WYEAST package is now bulging), pour it into a 1 gallon glass jug, cool, shake vigorously, pour in the yeast, and put on the airlock. My question is mainly on the method of storage, and the subsequent pitching. I plan to store this in the 12 ounce grolsch bottles. Can I merely sanatize as I usually would for bottling beer (1-step oxidizer with no rinse)? Next, can I store these in the cupboard, like a normal beer, or do I need to refridgerate them? I figure that I will have 4-6 bottles and I will more then likely use them over the following 6 monthes. Next Question: When I use these 'starter bottles' do I merely pitch them into 5 gallons of wort, the usual method for using the Wyeast yeast, or should I prepare a starter that is a larger volume? Next question: If I am organized... Can I merely use the dregs from my secondary (is this is the so-called 'trub'?) for a second batch? I am considering making a sam-adams cream stout copy, followed by a stout, so the same yeast seems appropriate. Is this reasonable of too risky? I suppose that afer the siphon quits I would pour off the slurry, make my wort, pour into the glass carboy with the requisite cold water, and pour the slurry back in. A two-for-the-price-of-one deal, sort of, and it shoudl save a little time in sanitizing too. Final question: I have never aerated my wort before pitching the yeast. How much of a problem coudl this be? Am I lucky to have not had any problems? My latest batch, a laglander lager, may have been stuck (when bottling it is very sweet-tasting. So, after bottling all of it I began to worry. I checked the SG and it was higher than most endpoints and was around 1.020 (not that I have never calibrated the hydrometer). I usually get around 1.010. Also, I never did check the start point. I rarely check this at both the start and finish. Also, for this particular batch, I pitched dry yeast from a starter and it bubbled reasonably vigourously for several days. I put the carboy in an outside hallway, rather than the kitchen, in hopes of a cooler fermenting temperature. It sat in the secondary fr oaround 3 weeks, longer then usual so I was sure (?) that it was ready to bottle. I have currently returned all of the bottles to the hallway and I plan to check them each day for overcarbonation. The idea, admittedly not very scientific, is to pop a bottle open each day (grolsch-type bottles so they can be resealed) and check the carbonation level. I figure checking a bottle at random should tell me what they are doing. If they seem to be on the way to bomb stage I will pop all of the caps and maybe put them back into the large glass carboy with a little fresh yeast (?) to ensure the complete carbonation. Thanks for the answers to this long question list. A reply to this digest is fine, or email to me. Adam Rich Rochester, MN richa at mayo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 16:29:28 -0500 From: Thomas55 at aol.com Subject: Wort Cooling and Blow Off Q's I've been reading the Digest for a couple of weeks now and I must say I'm convinced that this is the best thing since liquid yeast! I've brewed about 5 or 6 batches (wished I had heeded the advice and kept better records!) so far that have ranged from an extract and corn sugar batch to 8lbs of extract and added hops, grains and spices with liquid yeast. I'd like to pass on to any other newcomers to this hobby that I've learned alot by starting simple and learning what each new addition adds to the flavor, body and texture of my beers. I've always kept an open attitude towards brewing styles and techniques and have read nearly all the FAQ's (really great info - be sure to get these!) in your archives. I've learned most of my early techniques from Charlie Papazian's "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing" (not meant to be a plug - sorry). I've noticed some practices I've seen elsewhere and some I haven't seen anywhere else and would like your comments on some of them. In "How to Brew Your First Beer" by John J. Palmer (available in your archives) Mr Palmer raised some question about some of Papazians' practices. Mr Palmer mentions that he doesn't like the practice of pouring hot wort into cool water waiting in the carboy but doesn't say why? Does this harm or change potential flavors? Is there any potential gain by ensuring that when the wort is cooled enough to be susceptible to infection it is locked safely in a sanitized fermenter? Another practice that Mr Palmer doesn't mention but I've seen others recommend against is the use of a "blow off" tube for the initial stages of fermentation. I know that some worry about the possibility of exploding glass and five gallons of wasted beer! I use this method but with out the stopper and small tubing Papazian describes. I use a single piece of tubing large enough to fit snugly in the neck of the carboy - about an inch inside diameter! ( I don't remember what size and since it is currently in use I can't readily measure it!) I don't see how anything could clog this and cause any pressure buildup besides the slight pressure of the 1 inch or so of water I submerge it in to keep out any uninvited guests. Am I missing something about this practice? Is there really any benefit of the removal of "excessively bitter hop resins" as Papazian describes? I also understand that the Krausen (foam) may contain some concentration of fusel oils of which it is a further benefit to reduce or eliminate from your beer? I hope these questions are of interest to the masses and look forward to your comments! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 18:51 CST From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Re: Cat's Meow for SUDS ===> Robert Waddell asks about the Cat's Meow for SUDS: >I am looking for an archive site that would have "Sudscm". It is the >"Cats Meow" formatted for import into the "Sudsw" formulater for windows >that is available at "Sierra.Stanford.Edu". It is mentioned by the author >(Michael C. Taylor) in the help file in "Sudsw", so I know it must exist >somewhere. If anyone knows of a site or has a copy they could E-mail to >me I would be forever grateful. Either post a reply here or E-mail. It's available from the author when you register your shareware version of SUDS. It's an inducement to register your use of SUDS. The registration fee is modest, about $20 if I recall correctly. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 20:11:23 -0500 (EST) From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Old Cincinnati Beer styles (From *Jeff* Renner) Growing up in Cincinnati (College Hill) in the 1950's, I would occasionally be given a sip of beer - Burger, Schoenling, Hudepohl, Weidemann's. Perhaps it was my innocent palate, but those beers seemed to have a flavor and aroma profile that I haven't found since. They seemed to be so, well, in a word, "beery." They seemed almost pungent, and slightly sour (not, I presume, defectively so). I occasionally get a faint whiff of this evocative aroma when opening an American Pilsner, but it is fleeting. I hope to recreate an old Cincinnati beer. Probably a great part of this is the hopeless chasing of childhood memories of an exaggerated scale (remember how BIG your elementary classrooms were, and how TALL the tree in front of your first house was?). Will-o'-the-whisp or not, I solicit digesters, especially from Cincinnati, for any information they may have on these beers, especially grist bill, hopping types and levels, and yeasts. Are any of you in touch with old brewers? Does Hudepohl's brewer share info? Or their corporate office? (I think that Christian Moerlein in a nice beer, but probably has more to do with the marketing department than historical fact). Does Hudepohl share their yeast? I have Brewing Techniques' article on Pre-prohibition Lagers by George Fix and the one on Bushwick Pilsners by Ben Jankowski. (If I still lived in the Queen City, I'd love to research and write a similar article on Cincinnati beers - maybe one of you folks down there can do it for me.) I have also read William Downard's "The Cincinnati Brewing Industry: A Social and Economic History," Ohio Univ. Press (1973), a very good book but not at all technical. Thanks and I hope the rest of the HBD may find any results of this request useful as well. I will post any success I have. Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, MI c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:26:27 -0800 From: Eric Jaquay <erjaq at wopr.gsm.uci.edu> Subject: priming with molasses I just opened the third disappointing bottle of a stout that I primed with molasses. The head is indeed impressive: tan, creamy, and persistent. The flavor, however, is horrible. All molasses!!! It's kind of like drinking a bottle of Guinness with a pat of butter. I used one cup of the blackstrap variety, as per Papazian's guidelines. Has anyone else done this before? Does the flavor mellow with age? I bottled about six weeks ago, and I'll wait if anyone thinks that the molasses-y flavor will dissipate, but there's no way I could drink these as they are. I'm so distraught by the whole predicament that I've had to open one of my Orange-Cranberry holiday libations a bit prematurely, just to raise my spirits. !Que sabrosa! Posting or private e-mail will suit me just fine. Eric Jaquay P.S.-This is my first post to the list after lurking for a while, and I wanted to say that this is an incredible resource and I have learned a great deal. Thanks! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:44:35 -0800 From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman) Subject: Low Tide, American IPA recipe. Ulick Stafford writes about the shortfall of posts in recent Homebrew digests and pleads with people to post some long, interesting articles. Ignoring that... I am not suprised that posting is at low tide. I think a number of people have probably been giving the HBD some distance after the Clay Glenn Fiasco. Some were probably put off by the debate started when people expressed their dissatisfaction with plan to sell hardcopys of the HBD and others by the nasty backlash. This forum was used by a vocal minority to utter broad insults against the complaintants, many of whom are/were longtime contributers to the HBD. Who knows what insults they suffered by e-mail? They may be wondering why they post@ all. People on the sidelines of the whole spat may have decided to let things blow over before even reading the HBD. Quite apart from that, I think this is a busy time of year for people. Students and professors have to deal with midterms. People are gearing up for the holiday season. Projects started in haste and guilt at the end of summer, or renewed after a summer of neglect, are starting to show results. Most of all, with the cool weather people are too busy brewing to write about brewing. - ---------- But enough of that. Several weeks ago I brewed my first partial mash where I used a significant amount of grain. It has been in the bottle about a month now and after extensive QC I think it is safe to post the recipe here without fear of recrimination. Erik's American IPA #1 I was trying to come up with something like Anchor liberty ale. I haven't tried them side by side so I won't guess how close I came. OG. 1.060 IBU 50 (est) 6 lbs. American Pale 2-row 0.75 lbs. 60L American Crystal. 0.25 lbs. Carapils 4.25 lbs. M&F Bulk Pale LME. at 25 minutes. 0.5 oz. Nugget Hops (11.8%AA) at 100 minutes to end 0.5 oz Nugget at 40 0.5 oz. Cascade (6.5% AA) at 30 0.5 oz. Cascade at 15 0.5 oz. Cascade at 8 0.33 oz. Cascade at 0 Wyeast 1028? London Ale! Dry hopped in secondary for 8 days with whole hops. 1.5 oz. Cascade 0.5 oz. Nugget A few notes. I used 1 qt of water per lb of grain (7 qts total, soft, pre boiled seattle water with 2 tsp of Gypsum) I used a short 20 minute protein rest and a long 2 hr mash at 156F for some residual body and sweetness in the finished beer. I only collected about 4.5 galons of wort because I don't have a big enough brew pot. I was within a point or two of my target OG based on my assumed efficiency of 85% of Dave Miller's optimal numbers. I boiled about 3.5 gal wort with the hops in a 4 gal pot. In another pot I boiled the remaining sweet wort and added it to the main pot as space became available. All hops were whole hops from the Hop Source (good hops, good prices, no financial or personal interest). I adjusted my IBU calculations for the estimated SG in the main pot. I assumed a more-or-less linear increace in SG between the SG at the start of the boil and the estimated SG at the time I added all runnings to the main pot. When calculating the IBUs for the early additions I did not try to take into account the dramatic boost in OG over the last 25 minutes of the boil caused by the addition of the LME. I cooled the wort over 40 minutes time in a covered kettle in a tub-full of cold water. Yeast was pitched at about 75F. Fermenation proceeded at 60F. Racked to carboy after 5 days, dry hopped for 8 before bottling. The resulting beer was strong and well hopped. The FG of 1.016 left it with a medium body and a slight residual sweetness which was overbalanced by hop-bitterness. The flavor and aroma of the cascades was quite evident after a month in the bottle. This is my best beer to date, to make it better I will probably boost the bittering hops a bit and cut out the extract to replace it with more pale two-row. __________________________________________________________________________ Erik A. Speckman Seattle, Washington Good Brain Doesn't Suck especkma at reed.edu especkma at halcyon.com Copyright, 1994 Erik Speckman. May be freely copied for non-commercial use Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1584, 11/21/94