FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Today's Replies ("Robert W. Mech")
  cold lager starters (Btalk)
  1st Ever Great Maple Brew Off! (Andrew Patrick)
  Porter ? (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  Growlers (Jeff Stampes)
  Ottawa (Matt_K)
  BOS at SOB (STROUD)
  More posts please (Ulick Stafford)
  APAs (Anchor Liberty?) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  RE:O2 and flammability (Jim Busch)
  RE:yeast cultures and pitching/filters (Jim Busch)
  Beer of the Month Club (Maribeth_Raines)
  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Recipe (DUTILLYM)
  Bass recipe wanted ("Michael J. Poaletta")
  help w/ lagering setup (Dan Sherman)
  Buffalo "octoberfest" - HBD1582 (Bill Hunter)
  celebrity brewers? (Kathy Kincade)
  my oriental keyboard (DONBREW)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1580 (November 16, 1994) (Gateway)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1579 (November 15, 1994) (Gateway)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 05:08:44 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net>
Subject: Today's Replies

> From: grobbins at usaid.gov
> Does anyone know where I can get some plastic crates to hold my bottles?
The 
> original cardboard boxes that held the bottles have just about had it.  
I use 
> two different size bottles, Grolsch swing tops and another 24 oz bottle 
> that 
> is a bit smaller than the Grolsch.  I live in Bangladesh so I am looking
 for 
> a U.S. mail order supply, (I can get these through the mail) rather than 
> generic ideas on where to get these in the U.S.  Please send private
 e-mail.
> 
My Boxes too have been falling apart at an incrediable rate.  Im going to 
try getting the "Generic" Crates sold at K-Mart, Wall-Mart, Etc. however, 
ive been having no luck either.  Im considering making a "case" out of 
that thin balsa/paneling type wood, that is relitivly cheap.  If it 
works, Ill let everyone know. 
 
- ------------------------------
 
From: MCKEOWND at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA
> I recently made a batch of cider from a "sparking cider" kit.  The kit cost
> over $20 and made 15 litres of brew.  I have been contmeplating making 
>cider
> directly from actual apple cider as it would cost a bit less and 
>would probably
>  have a lot more flavour.
> 
 
Dont be so sure you are going to save money!  I made Cider this year, and 
it's not cheap.  A Gallon of that cider runs you about $3.99 to $4.99 for 
1 gallon of unpasturized, perservitive free cider.  Add yeast cost (if 
you use liquid) and its over $20, im sure the taste however will be much 
improved over an extract.
 
> I was going to use 15 litres of cider, one and a half cups of corn sugar 
and
> one package of wine brewer's yeast (this sort of copies the recipe of 
the kit).
 
Shoot for Brown Sugar instead of corn sugar.  It added a nice color to my 
cider, along with a nice flavor.  My first batch was rather sour for my 
tastes and for the next one I intend to use Lactose to sweeten it up 
since its unfermentable.
 
 My Recipie for cider this year follows:
 
I made approx 2 gallons.

2  Gallons Unpasturized, No Perservitive Cider
14 whole cloves.
1  cinamon stick
1tsp ground nutmeg.
 1tsp allspice
1 Pound EXTRA-LIGHT M&F DME 
1 Package Whitbread Ale Yeast
1 Pound Brown Sugar.
 
Mix the Lot of it together, boil for about 20 minutes.
Remove cinamon stick and cloves.  Cool to 80, pitch yeast.
Ferment in primary for about a week.  Ferment in the secondary about 
another week.  Let it rot in the bottle for yet another week.
 
This stuff came out EXTREMELY potent.  OG was like 1.085 (dont have my 
logs in front of me).  If you prime it, you get a champagne type apple 
cider, which everyone seemed to enjoy.
 
Best of luck with your cider.

Rob

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 08:55:06 -0500
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: cold lager starters

Spencer mentions the recommendation to make lager starters at fermentation
temp.
Seems to make sense.
Spencer, have you tried this?  Any feedback or obvious differences in the
final product?

I'll give it a try with my next lager. I'd guess it just takes a little
longer to build up.
Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz,Binghamton,NY<btalk at aol.com>

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 09:01:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com>
Subject: 1st Ever Great Maple Brew Off!

First Ever MAPLE Brew Off!!

The HomeBrew U BBS Network and the International Maple Sugar Institute
are very pleased to jointly announce the first-ever Maple Brew Off.
This event will be held in the Chicago area on March 25th, 1995.
Entry deadline is March 17th, 1995.

This preliminary notice is being given so that brewers ("Maplers"?) can
begin formulating, brewing, and fermenting beverages containing Maple
Syrup.  Maple lends itself to high gravity brewing, so give yourself
plenty of time for your fermented Maple beverages to mature and mellow!

Please keep in mind the following categories when brewing your entries:

Big Maple -       any fermented Maple beverage with an OG above 1.060
                  that contains NO malted barley nor specialty ingredients.

Little Maple -    same as Big Maple, but OG is less than 1.060.

Maple Specialty - Any fermented Maple beverage containing unusual
                  ingredients (BESIDES Maple!) including, but certainly
                  not limited to: fruits, herbs, and spices.

Maple Lager -     any traditional lager style containing a portion of Maple
                  as a source of fermentable sugars.

Maple Ale -       any traditional ale style containing a portion of Maple
                  as a source of fermentable sugars.

Contest organizers reserve the right to re-group the categories based upon
the number of entries.

All categories will be judged by AT LEAST one BJCP certified judge.

Please note that the HomeBrew U BBS Network and the International Maple
Syrup Institute are BOTH non-profit organizations dedicated to the free
exchange of information concerning BEER and MAPLE, respectively.

Another announcement will be made when final logistics are in place.

Questions? Comments?

Contact:
Andy Patrick (andnator at mcs.com)
Certified Beer Judge;  Brewing Instructor-College of DuPage County,IL
Founder, HomeBrew U BBS Network:
Chicago 708-705-7263, Houston 713-923-6418, Milwaukee 414-238-9074

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:05 EST
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: Porter ?

Would one of you kind folks with access to a style manual please post the
listing for a Porter.  Characteristics, color, bitterness units, etc.
I am interested in exactly what traits a porter is supposed to have.
Thanks a kegful...
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu

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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 15:35:59 MST
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Growlers



I just got a catalog from U.S. Brewers in Albany (Usual Disclaimer)
and saw an item I've never heard of before . . . A 'Growler'

It's a 2-Liter Amber bottle with a decorative handle and a 
Grolsch-Type swing-top.  It sounds like a great idea, but they're
charging $17.95 for them!  You'd need to spend $180 to buy the 10
you'd need for a batch of beer, and at that cost, you may as well
buy yourself brand new kegs!

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these,
or if you know of a place to get them cheaper

Jeff Stampes                     jeff at neocad.com

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 10:38:24 est
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Ottawa

Message:
I will be in this fine city in the near future and would like to know 
of any brewpubs worth visiting. 
 
Many thank's
Matt (in Montreal)



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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 08:16:04 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: Mega-brew pump

At least one person has asked me about the Wonder pump used in
the mega-brew I made last saturday. It exists on page 113,
lower right hand corner, of the J. C. Whitney & Co., catalog
number 564J. Details follow:

Electric Water Pump for RVs.
Quiet, trouble free, no parts to wear out. Pumps 1-1/2 gallons
per minute. Compact: only 4-1/2" long x 1-3/4" diameter. Mounts
directly to water tank. 3/8" inlet and outlet barbs. For single
faucet hookup. 12 volt DC. Low 1.0 amp draw.
15XX8445B $16.95 each

Can order by phone at (312) 431-6102

No affiliation, just a potential customer. Besides, I hate
catalogs that come for years after you order something...

Good luck!
Rich Webb, Kent, Washington USA

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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 10:56:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: STROUD%GAIA at cliffy.polaroid.com
Subject: BOS at SOB

It was interesting to note in yesterday's HBD that Scott Bickham won the BOS at 
the Spirit of Belgium with a witbier.  A look at the ingredient list shows that 
he added a small amount of *coriander* to the beer.

No surprise there, it just reinforces what several of us have been saying all
along:  beers brewed with coriander have an unfair advantage over other
entries.  Does anyone else think that the AHA should considering banning beers
with added coriander from its sanctioned competitions in order to level
the playing field? 

Steve



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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 12:26:45 +0000
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu>
Subject: More posts please

The nature of hbd is such that one can not predict from one time of year 
to another how busy it would be, but today's was the shortest I 
have seen in a while.  I am worried that many people who used to post 
useful information are now not doing so because a certain vocal minority 
of hbd readers considers many postings to be `inappropriate'.  A few days 
ago someone mentioned that the Dixie cup results had not been posted and 
talked about a possible archive site.  Once upon a time, competition 
results were posted, and I always used to enjoy scanning through to see 
who won what with which beer.

Recently there have been many vocal posts by people saying what they 
think is inappropriate for hbd.  I generally flame these people by email 
because I consider it hypocritical to waste bandwidth complaining about a 
waste of bandwidth.  The truth is that people who are happy don't say 
anything.  If hbd were bunged up as it has been on occasion in the past, 
then one should think twice before posting, but right now I think it 
would be nice if people who would post long interesting articles would do so,
serialized if necessary.

On the subject of additives, a 
friend of mine has started to use ascorbic acid to counter HSA.  This 
always reminds of the Bavarian brewer who had his brewery confiscated 
(some time this century) for including this most un-Reinheitsgebot 
ingredient in his beer.

I noticed in the new BT that David Miller is now brewmaster for a brewpub 
in Nashville to open next month, and is now recommending RIMS as a 
possible method for ensuring uniform temperature when heating a mash!  I 
still have several articles to read, but did notice that Al K. sent a 
'salty' letter to the editor criticizing a book and its review.  However, 
he did make one teeny weeny mistake.  Fructose is not a mirror image of 
glucose.  I was discussing carbohydrate chemistry off line with him, but if 
many people express an interest in such discussions on line, I am sure I could 
manage to post something (although I still have a radiation experiment 
and wit beer article to write). 
__________________________________________________________________________
 `Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Dr. Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
   http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html  |    Ulick.Stafford at nd.edu   



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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 13:39:02 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: APAs (Anchor Liberty?)

Regarding the quote from my beer page, he didn't include the
disclaimer:

    I have listed a few commercial examples for most of the styles. I did
    this as a study guide for my BJCP exam, and I've probably gotten a few
    wrong. Feel free to point these out to me, and/or suggest better
    examples. I've tried, in most cases, to limit myself to examples that
    are available in the US, thus there are none listed for the English
    Mild style, for example.

Besides, there is no American IPA category.  And Anchor Liberty is a
lot closer to the numbers for APA than the 1st place "Scottish Heavy"
was in the Nationals this year.  Fooie :=)

=S

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:16:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:O2 and flammability

Mark writes:

<If you bubble pure O2 for 20-60 minutes  and only end up with 8 mg/l
<DO, what happens to the rest of the O2?  I think this is where the
<actual danger lies.  I don't think anyone ever implied that the beer
<could ever catch fire.  Caution certainly seems to be in order.

Caution yes, but lets be pratical here.  You have a room with dimensions
of say, 12x12'.  Thats about 144*8 cubic feet of air or, 1152 cubic feet
of air.  Air contains 20% O2, so this is 230 cubic feet of O2.  My basement
is much larger than this, and has a greater amount of air.  The remaining
exercise requires a estimation of the volume of O2 delivered during the
bubbling period, minus the amount dissolved in solution.  A 20-60 min.
bubbling at 2PSI cannot possibly deliver the equivelent of 230 cubic feet
of O2, and even if it did, this would merely raise the O2 concentration to
40%, a far cry from a pure O2 environment.  I can only imagine how much
of a tank would be needed to produce 922 cubic feet of O2, which would
be required to raise the O2 concentration to near 100%, and this assumes
the room contains no drafts to replace the gas.  Now, lets consider a
controlled injection of O2 that is typical of breweries.  They have the
good fortune of having O2 regulators that measure the flow rate in litres
per min.  A typical number used is 6L/min for 30 min to achieve 8mg/L of
DO in a 25 BBl batch.  If one assumes zero DO, this results in 6*30 Litres
of O2 which is 180 Litres.  If my room is 1152 cubic feet, then this
allows 1152/180 or one litre of O2 in 6.4 cubic feet of space.  I say
relax.

Jim Busch
Colesville, Md

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:24:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:yeast cultures and pitching/filters

Spencer writes:

<Algis R. Korzonas wrote about starters for lagers:
 > >1a. Should I have made that yeast starter at my Fermenting
 > >Temperature of 48F instead of 68F?

 > No.  Making a starter is all about yeast growth, whereas fermentation is
 > another beast altogether.  Starters for both ale and lager should be made at
 > room temperature (around 70-75F).

<I have to disagree here, Al.  My yeast supplier (owner of the Yeast
<Culture Kit Company) has told me to grow my lager starters cold,
<especially with certain yeasts (e.g., the "Munich" strain, as I
<recall).  He claims that when the starter is grown warm, the yeast
<"get used to it", and not work well at the cooler lager fermentation
<temperature (or will throw more "interesting" flavors and aromas than
<they should).  He said that this is one reason that the "Munich"
<strain has a reputation for being "unstable" -- that most homebrewers
<grow the starter warm and then expect it to work cold.

I was wondering the exact same thing.  I had always been told by brewers
I respect that lager yeast should be grown relatively cold.  Last nite,
I checked out a section in the Practical Brewer that basically agrees
with both Spencer and Al.  The point to remember is that the small mini
ferments that are intended to grow yeast can be done at relatively warm
temps.  What they then noted, and this is where I agree with Dan, Spencer,
et al, is that as the quantity of pitching slurry is increased, the temp
should be gradually decreased until the final volume of slurry is obtained
which was produced from a ferment of equal temps to that to be pitched
in to.  Makes sense.  Also, note that Dan has recommended a huge amount
of slurry for a proper lager pitching rate, essentially a 2-3 gallon starter
, allowed to ferment out, decanted and then used to ferment a 5-8 gallon
batch of lager.  Who said lager brewing is easy??!  The other advice is
as usual, try to grow yeast in as close as possible a media as that to
be pitched into.  For example, a 1.050 growth of all grain wort/yeast
to pitch into an all grain 1.050 Pils.  (The converse is not true, grow
in extract based wort for extract beer, since extract is low in FAN, as
was pointed out in Brewing Techniques). (This is also untrue for a high
gravity beer, a "normal" wort of about 1.040-1.050 is used to grow
yeast for pitching in a high gravity beer).

I then went to DeClerck to see what he thought.  On page 425, he states
that ferementation (in terms of stepping up cultures) should be done at
8-10C for lager yeasts and 18-20C for ale yeasts.  He goes on to suggest
that  3 litres of wort be fermented at 8-10C and when this is complete,
that 20 litres of refrigerated wort be innoculated with the 3 litres. DeClerck
also uses a rule of thumb to the amount of pitching yeast in a lager beer:
 .5-1 litre of yeast slurry per hectolitre (100 L) of wort.  Since lots
of homebrewers use 20 Litre systems, we need .1-.2 litres of slurry per
batch or about 3-6 ounces of slurry. It should be noted that estimating
pitching rates by volume calculations is a very rough estimate.  Breweries
will count cells to determine proper rates since a number of cells per
ml of wort is the optimum method of ensuring the proper pitching rates.
I have used thick brewery slurry that can weigh between one and two
pounds for the same volume of slurry.

It is also important to remember that when a new stock of yeast is grown
from a single cell, the true fermentation characteristics will not always
appear for several generations of use.  In larger breweries, the first
full size ferment is often dumped and the yeast harvested.  Some utilize
blending to mask the early generations.  This is yet another reason to
carefully harvest and store fermentation yeast for subsequent brews,
provided storage is done quite cold and the yeast is stored for a brief
period of time (~2 weeks without food).  For longer period storage, fresh
wort should be used to feed the yeast.  I store my yeast in my cold storage
frige which I use for yeast dropping and carbonating and this is held at 31F. 

Al writes:

<Incidentally, Old Dominion had a bar at Dulles Airport (hurray!) so I finally
<did get to try them and these beers were far, far better than the Capitol
<City brews.  Jim-- do you know what kind of filtering they do?

Sure.  They used to use a plate frame sheet filter.  This is a simple device
that works quite well up to a certain production level.  It consists of
disposable sheets of filter material, thier old model used about 20.  It
would result in a polished beer down to about 5-7 microns.  Since Dominion
has experienced considerable growth, they invested in a large DE filter with
built in stirring motor.  While this filter provides the same general level
of polish, 5-7 microns, it has the distinct advantage of being able to
handle a much larger yeast load.  Plate frames work well until a very big
yeasty beer is pushed through (or a pellets dry hopped beer) where the flow
rate drops.  This can lead to filtration sessions lasting 5-8 hours as
opposed to a normal run of say 2 hours.  The DE filter also employs a
cartridge catch filter to trap any stray DE that may get through.  The nice
thing about the Dulles beer bar is that they will have the seasonal specialties
on tap, which in a week will be DoppelBock!

Jim Busch
Colesville, Md

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 12:01:59 PST
From: raines at radonc.ucla.edu (Maribeth_Raines)
Subject: Beer of the Month Club

I, as the Grand Hydrometer of the Maltose Falcons Homebrewing Society 
(Woodland Hills, California), subscribe to both Beers Across America 
(BAA) and Microbrew Express (previously the Gourmet Beer Society).  I 
use these beers to sponsor monthly club tastings.  We actually rate 
the beers on a scale of 1 to 5.  The Buffalo Harvest Ale from BAA was 
so bad that we refused to give it a score.  So I am in total 
agreeement with previous posters.  I had a similar experience with 
Geary's Pale Ale from Maine that was also shipped from BAA last 
spring.  I know from living in NYC that this is indeed a fine beer, 
perhaps one of the best American examples of an English Pale Ale.  
Their Christmas beer is a personal favorite of mine.  (Anyone on the 
East Coast willing to send me some in exchange for some West coast 
Xmas beers?) Anyway I was so upset about the Geary's Pale Ale from BAA 
that I called them and complained.  They cheerfully sent me more but 
it was still extremely lactic.  This has led me to wonder whether BAA 
may or at least is becoming a dumping ground for some infected or 
inferior microbrewed beers.  My experience with the smaller business 
such as Gourmet Beer Society and Microbrew Express have been much 
better mainly because the guys who run them are homebrewers and know 
beer.  I can't say the same about BAA and have no idea how beers are 
chosen for distribution.  Unfortunatley Microbrew Express limits 
itself to mail order on the West Coast (maybe even only California, I 
don't remember) and features primarily West Coast beers.  So I 
continue to subscribe to BAA hoping that another outstanding East 
Coast beer will arrive at my door step.  

I am still disappointed in the Geary's beer and felt that a grave 
injustice was done to a fine brewery by distributing such swill.  I'd 
also like to send the brewmaster a bottle to let him know that they 
are having problems.  I suspect it is in their bottling line since 
there was quite a difference between bottles.  Any of you East 
Coasters have the address and/or phone number for Geary's so I can 
follow up on this?

In any case, I think that what is received from some of these Beer of 
the month clubs do not necessarily exemplify the products available at 
the brewery.  And it further underscores the difficulty in making a 
consistently fine product that can withstand the diverse conditions 
encountered during shipping and storage.

Cheers!

Maribeth Raines
raines at radonc.ucla.edu

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 15:03:24 -0500 (EST)
From: DUTILLYM <DUTILLYM at ropt1.am.wyeth.com>
Subject: Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Recipe

I was wondering if anyone had a recipe for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale 
(Extract)  and any comments you may have.  I know that it was 
mentioned in HBD recently, but do not remember whether it included a 
recipe discussion.  Any information would be appreciated.  Private 
E-mail or posting would be fine. 

As an aside, anyone interested in making a Porter with fruit, try the 
following:
            Use Papazian's Sparow Hawk Porter recipe. 
            Into the bottom of your fermenter, add 3 lbs
            of either Raspberries or cherries (pasteurized)
            before you are ready to add the boiled wort and
            proceed normally.  It will make a truly excellent
            Beer.  The raspberry poter had a mild raspberry 
            flavor, and the cherry porter tasted like a porter
            and cherry wine mixture, quite excellent.
             



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Date:         Fri, 18 Nov 94 14:45:21 EST
From: "Michael J. Poaletta" <MP0824A at american.edu>
Subject:      Bass recipe wanted

I am trying to brew a Bass Ale clone using only extracts and specialty
grains.  If anyone out there has a decent recipe for Bass Ale or a
reasonable facsimile than I would be most appreciative.  I am also in the
habit of using liquid Wyeast and would like to now which yeast, London ale or
British Ale is the best for this particular style.
    If either style is suitable than I would like to know which one is less
attentutive (wrong spelling I'm sure).  Any help on this matter would be
greatly appreciated. Private E-mail is welcome.

                                           Mike Poaletta

    -"Fudd Beer.  We stopped carrying that stuff after those hillbillies
went blind"
                                            -Moe the Bartender

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 12:26:23 -0800 (PST)
From: dsherman at sdcc3.UCSD.EDU (Dan Sherman)
Subject: help w/ lagering setup

First off, I must apologize for bringing up a topic that was
discussed a few months ago.  After brewing ales for a few years,
I've finally decided to start brewing some lagers.  I located a
suitable lagering fridge (ugly, cheap, and working) and want to get
set up to brew 5 gal. batches of lager.

I haven't tested how well the fridge holds its temperature, but I
was under the impression that an external temperature controller was
the best thing to use.  What are some good, inexpensive models &
where could I find them (I live in San Diego)?  I looked in a couple
of FAQ's for this info.  Did I overlook it?  Is this something that
others would like to see included in a FAQ?

The current thread about lager starters has been very informative.
Are there any other comments anyone has that could help out a
first-time lager brewer?

TIA

Dan Sherman
San Diego, CA  (It rained last night  :-O )
dsherman at ucsd.edu

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Date:         Fri, 18 Nov 94 11:00:23 CST
From: Bill Hunter <BHUNTER at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Buffalo "octoberfest" - HBD1582

On Fri, 18 Nov 1994 01:31:34 -0700 <beer-l-request@ UA1VM.UA.EDU> said:
>HOMEBREW Digest #1582                        Fri 18 November 1994
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 09:19:51 +0500
>From: fcaico at ycc.Kodak.COM (Frank Caico)
>Subject: Re: Buffalo Brewing Company
>
>>>>>> "Charles" == Charles S Jackson <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil> writes:
>
>Charles writes previously:
>
>    Charles>      As the recipient of a gift subscription to Beer Across
>    Charles> America (obviously no affiliation) I get teh opportunity to sample
>    Charles> a nice selection of micro's.  Last month I received a six'er of
>    Charles> bier labeled:
>
>    Charles>                           OKTOBERFEST German Styled Harvest Beer
>
>    Charles> from teh Buffalo Brewing Company in Lackawanna, NY.  It is bottled
>    Charles> conditioned as evidenced by the scant dregs.  The label gives no
>    Charles> hint of the ingredients.  Now I lived in Germany for over 8 years
>    Charles> and drank, and drank, and drank beer.  While I am not a fan of
>    Charles> weizen, esp hefeweizen, I could stomach the krystalweizen, but I
>    Charles> don't think I ever tasted a "harvest beer".  This stuff is sour
>    Charles> and not at all palatable.  Is this potentially infected or is it
>    Charles> supposed to be sour?  Anybody want it?  Four bottles left.  E-mail
>    Charles> seems most appropiate unless some of the masters think it deserves
>    Charles> public discussion.
>
>Well, I am pretty familiar with the Buffalo Brewing Co's products and I can
>tell you that they are *not* bottle conditioned.  But- I have also seen the
>problem you describe above.
>
>You do know that an Octoberfest is not made with wheat right? Well I had a Pils
>from the Buffalo Brewing Co. that had the exact same character you describe. I
>have also had good bottles of the Pils and they are completely different.
>
>I guess BBC has had some problems with contamination from time to time or
>something, because this is the only answer I can figure. I don't know if its
>wild yeast or not, but that would probably explain all the nasty
>characteristics (bottle conditioned appearance, sourness, thinness etc.).
>

My last shipment from Beers Across America included an 'octoberfest' from
Buffalo Brewing.  It was sour, undrinkable and truely nasty.  I called BAA
to complain and they immediately told me that they had gotten a bad batch
from the brewery.  They promptly sent me a free 6-pack of whatever they had
in stock that I wanted.  Nice people these BAA guys...

Bill

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 12:55:33 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: Value of old brewing book

A co-worker has handed me a section of the local penny clasifieds that
has an offer for

"extremely rare book called 'London & Country Brewer', on brewing beer,
pub. in 1774, exc condition, valued at $1000.

Should I take out a home loan for this?

Your thoughts are welcome...

Rich Webb, Kent, Washington, USA

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 07:12 EST
From: Kathy Kincade <0006391766 at mcimail.com>
Subject: celebrity brewers?

I am wondering if anyone knows of any "celebrity"
homebrewers (besides Kathy Ireland), such as 
actors/actresses, sports figures, musicians,
authors, etc. A friend and I are interested in
starting a new homebrewing magazine and would
like to include some photos of these people,
if they exist! Any replies can be posted here,
if that's ok, or sent to Kkincade at mcimail.com.
Thanks! -- kathy kincade


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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 19:03:23 -0500
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: my oriental keyboard

  Jeff,who thinks he's Nancy's computer, Renner points out  my mis-sperring
of the brand name of my bottre capper.  Wourd you berieve that my keyboard
was made in Japan? <G> Of course it shourd be Coronna, not Corona.
Donbrew at aol.com

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Date: 18 Nov 1994 00:25:29 -0000
From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1580 (November 16, 1994)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check
that the name has been entered correctly.)


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Date: 18 Nov 1994 00:25:09 -0000
From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1579 (November 15, 1994)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

ymoriya,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. Check
that the name has been entered correctly.)


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1583, 11/19/94