FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  CIAC Notes 94-04: "Good Times" virus hoax (brian)
  glugging carboys (rhawkins)
  Wyeast Strains (Rich Larsen)
  Cheap temperature control (Bob Chiz)
  RE:ferment temp control (Jim Busch)
  Top & Bottom Yeast (Rob Reed)
  Ring necks, Improved air quality (Chris Cooper)
  FOOP and Fermenter Geometry (Bob Chiz)
   (Gabriel M Guzman)
  Twas a While Before Christmas ("Palmer.John")
  diacetyl rest ques. (Dan Sherman)
  subscription request (HRWAGNER)
  G.Heileman joins the fray (GARY SINK 206-553-4687)
  Stabile Fermentation Temp / Don't Try This At Home!!! (Gary Bell)
   (Julie A Espy)
  Water Heaters, Protein/Fermenter drivel (todd boyce)
  Coriander / Hops???? (GRMarkel)
  Re: winter yeasts (Peter Mumford)
  Fermentap / pH meter / value of FOOP thread (Jay Lonner)
  Aeration and Alcohol (Anthony Meehan)
  Wort Guard & Oxygen Free Bottling (Phil Brushaber)
  replies to my hot-side aeration question ("Lee A. Kirkpatrick"                       )
  two more questions ("Lee A. Kirkpatrick"                       )
  strainers (Michael Minter)
  Fermentation temperature, Fermentable added to secondary (Philip Gravel)
  Chief Petty Bottlewasher ("Rebecca S. Myers")
  Converting recipes (MYETTE)
  Apologies (Kerry Drake)
  Tannins from hi pH sparge ("NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE")
  Raspberry Wheat beer Recipe (Ian Russell Ollmann)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 13:38:32 -0500
From: brian at kokom.mit.edu
Subject: CIAC Notes 94-04: "Good Times" virus hoax


[For further information contact ciac at llnl.gov]

             U.S. DOE's Computer Incident Advisory Capability
           ___  __ __    _     ___           __  __ __   __   __
          /       |     /_\   /       |\ |  /  \   |    |_   /_
          \___  __|__  /   \  \___    | \|  \__/   |    |__  __/

Number 94-04                                                December 6, 1994

 ------------------- A - T - T - E - N - T - I - O - N -------------------
|  CIAC is available 24-hours a day via its two skypage numbers.  To use  |
|  this service, dial 1-800-759-7243.  The PIN numbers are: 8550070 (for  |
|  the CIAC duty person) and 8550074 (for the CIAC manager).  Please keep |
|  these numbers handy.                                                   |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome to the fourth issue of CIAC Notes!  This is a special edition to
clear up recent reports of a "good times" virus-hoax.  Let us know if you
have topics you would like addressed or have feedback on what is useful and
what is not.  Please contact the editor, Allan L. Van Lehn, CIAC,
510-422-8193 or send E-mail to ciac at llnl.gov. 

  $-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$
  $ Reference to any specific commercial product does not necessarily   $
  $ constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation or favoring by  $
  $ CIAC, the University of California, or the United States Government.$
  $-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$

THE "Good Times" VIRUS IS AN URBAN LEGEND

In the early part of December, CIAC started to receive information requests
about a supposed "virus" which could be contracted via America OnLine, simply
by reading a message.  The following is the message that CIAC received: 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Here is some important information. Beware of a file called Goodtimes.    |
|                                                                           |
|  Happy Chanukah everyone, and be careful out there. There is a virus on   |
| America Online being sent by E-Mail.  If you get anything called "Good    |
| Times", DON'T read it or download it.  It is a virus that will erase your |
| hard drive.  Forward this to all your friends.  It may help them a lot.   |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS IS A HOAX.  Upon investigation, CIAC has determined that this message
originated from both a user of America Online and a student at a university
at approximately the same time, and it was meant to be a hoax. 

CIAC has also seen other variations of this hoax, the main one is that any
electronic mail message with the subject line of "xxx-1" will infect your
computer. 

This rumor has been spreading very widely.  This spread is due mainly to the
fact that many people have seen a message with "Good Times" in the header. 
They delete the message without reading it, thus believing that they have
saved themselves from being attacked. These first-hand reports give a false
sense of credibility to the alert message. 

There has been one confirmation of a person who received a message with
"xxx-1" in the header, but an empty message body.  Then, (in a panic, because
he had heard the alert), he checked his PC for viruses (the first time he
checked his machine in months) and found a pre-existing virus on his machine.
 He incorrectly came to the conclusion that the E-mail message gave him the
virus (this particular virus could NOT POSSIBLY have spread via an E-mail
message).  This person then spread his alert. 

As of this date, there are no known viruses which can infect merely through
reading a mail message.  For a virus to spread some program must be executed.
Reading a mail message does not execute the mail message.  Yes, Trojans have
been found as executable attachments to mail messages, the most notorious
being the IBM VM Christmas Card Trojan of 1987, also the TERM MODULE Worm
(reference CIAC Bulletin B-7) and the GAME2 MODULE Worm (CIAC Bulletin B-12).
 But this is not the case for this particular "virus" alert. 

If you encounter this message being distributed on any mailing lists, simply
ignore it or send a follow-up message stating that this is a false rumor. 

Karyn Pichnarczyk
CIAC Team
ciac at llnl.gov


- -------------------------------
Contacting CIAC

If you require additional assistance or wish to report a vulnerability, call
CIAC at 510-422-8193, fax messages to 510-423-8002 or send E-mail to
ciac at llnl.gov.  For emergencies and off-hour assistance, call 1-800-SKY-PAGE
(759-7243) and enter PIN number 8550070 (primary) or 8550074 (secondary). 
The CIAC Duty Officer, a rotating responsibility, carries the primary
skypager. The Project Leader carries the secondary skypager.  If you are
unable to contact CIAC via phone, please use the skypage system. 

- -------------------------------
This document was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of
the United States Government.  Neither the United States Government nor the
University of California nor any of their employees, makes any warranty,
express or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the
accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product,
or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately
owned rights.  Reference herein to any specific commercial products, process,
or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise, does not
necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation or favoring
by the United States Government or the University of California.  The views
and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect
those of the United States Government or the University of California, and
shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes. 

- -------------------------------
End of CIAC Notes Number 94-04  94_12_06
****************************************

- ----
Brian McAllister                             Internet: mcallister at mit.edu
Bates LINAC (MIT), Middleton, Ma             (617) 253-9537

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 13:05:50 -0600
From: rhawkins at iastate.edu
Subject: glugging carboys



The glug of a carboy can also be eliminated with your racking tube--just
put your thumb over the end as you insert it into the carboy, and
turn carboy upside down, making sure that the tip of the tube is in the
airspace.  

- -- 
R E HAWKINS
rhawkins at iastate.edu

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 13:57:33 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: Wyeast Strains

I have noticed that in the past folks here post that they used
wyeast 2565 or 1056 or 2007 or some such number.

For the beginners out there, these numbers refer to the WYEAST
strain number.  Sometimes it can be pretty confusing as to
which yeast was actually used.  I know I can't remember all the
numbers myself.

SO... for the numerically challenged I offer the following list.

ALE                        Lager             Advanced

1007 German                2007 Pilsen (A/B) 1968 London ESB (Fullers)
1056 American (Chico)      2042 Danish       1728 Scottish (Theakston)
1084 Irish (Guinness)      2206 Bavarian     2565 Kolsch
1098 British (Whitbread?)  2308 Munich       2278 Czech Pils (Pils Urquell)
1338 European              2035 American     3068 Weinhenstephan wheat
1028 London (Youngs)       2124 Bohemian     3944 Belgian Abbey (Chimay)
3056 Bavarian Wheat        2112 California   3944 Belgian White (Hoogarden)
                                  (Anchor)   3278 B. Brett. Bruxellensis

The comments in the parenthesis are what I had heard to be the sources of
some of the strains.  If anyone else would like to add/correct my assumtions
please do!

=> Rich  (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
    "I never drink... wine"  Bela Lugosi as Dracula
________________________________________________________________________


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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 12:42:22 MST
From: chiz at atmel.com (Bob Chiz)
Subject: Cheap temperature control


dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) asks about cheap ways to control
fermentation temp.  One suggestion that I have heard and plan to use on
my next batch is to put the carboy in a larger bucket (I'm using my old
seven gallon plastic fermenter) filled with water and use an aquarium
heater to maintain the temperature of this water.

Bob Chizmadia             chiz at atmel.com
Colorado Springs, CO

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 15:22:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:ferment temp control

Ron asks:

<Any suggestions for a super cheapo temp controller

Put the carboy in a plastic bucket (the fermenter type works
well), add some water to this, and bolt a $10 aquarium heater
to the side.  Be careful with the temp setting, keep it around 60F.
Also be careful the heater wont melt the bucket sides (or use a 
metal container).

Jim Busch
Colesville, Md

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 15:43:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Top & Bottom Yeast

 "pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu> writes:

> 
> 1)  Benard convection occurs when you have HEATING on the bottom and 
> COOLING on top (not on the sides).  If I use top-fermenting yeast, 
> then the heat that is being produced in my tank should be on top.  
> This tends to cut off any convection.  By cooling the sides in a long 
> vertical slot, I can insure that there is ALWAYS convection in the 
> tank as long as there is a temperature difference between the sides 
> of the wall and the body of the fluid (i.e. heat is being produced by 
> the yeast).
> 
> 2)  If I use bottom-fermenting yeast, then the heat is produced on the 
> bottom.  By cooling on top, I could create Benard cells. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the classification of yeast as 'top
fermenting' or 'bottom fermenting' a reference to its tendency to
*floculate* to the top of the fermenting vessel or the bottom of the
vessel, respectively?  With both types of yeast, yeast are active
throughout the fermenting beer.  While this doesn't rule out the 
existence of a temperature gradient in the fermentor, I feel it is a
bit of an oversimplication to suggest that top yeasts ferment only
at the surface of the beer, and bottom yeasts ferment only on the
bottom of the vessel.


 -Rob Reed

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 16:53:09 -0500
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Ring necks, Improved air quality

   While in pheasants it's pleasant,
   In home brewed it's rude!

Well I think I'm becoming superstious, on batch number "13" I seem to have
some type of infection?  There is a very slight ring around the bottle neck
at the liquid level made of very small particles.  This was an extract
pale ale made with  North Western Amber LME, 1# crystal, .5# toasted barley
The secondary was dry-hopped (hop plug) and had 1/4 cup of oak chips 
(oven cured 200F for 30 min.).  I tried a bottle 10 days and 20 days after
bottling, aroma and carbonation are fine, the taste is ok but slightly bitter
and tart (not bad but definitely off compared to my other pale ales).
My question is what have I hatched here and will time improve it or should I 
just pass this stuff off on my budies that think Buttwiper is good beer
(Just kidding I want my friends to appreciate good beer not bilge water).
I have searched the last 500 HBD's for "ring neck" references and while most
suggest this as a sympton of bacterial infection there have been many
differing opinions and explanations.  I know sanitation is the obvious area
for examination but I use B-brite and bleach liberally and think I have
it covered.  Your comments and suggestions are welcomed. 

   Tis the Season  
   of Nogs and Grogs
   and Brews and Cru's

On a lighter note I finally brewed my holiday beer (a spiced ale with
coriander, ginger, cinnamon, orange zest, & cloves) and when my wife
returned from a shopping trip instead of the normal amount of verbal 
abuse I receive about air quality she really liked the aroma coming
from the brewery (she calls it the kitchen, but what's in a name). 
If you haven't tried a spice beer yet get going the house really
smells like Christmas now, bye for now I've got to go deck the 
halls with boughs of Hops! (Never did like Holly that much,
thorns, poison berries, you can't make beer out of it)

Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Where ever you go <--
ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com         --> There you are     <--


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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 15:11:25 MST
From: chiz at atmel.com (Bob Chiz)
Subject: FOOP and Fermenter Geometry


Risking my lurker status of a year and a half, 

In HBD #1600, Danny Owen writes:

> A third issue that I would like to (briefly) address is the nature of 
> some of the discussions on this publication. When I first found out about 
>the HBD I was very excited. I had found an excellent resource for homebrewers.
>I could ask and answer qwuestions and exchange USEFUL information about the 
>art/science of homebrewing with people all over the world! After spending 
>quite a bit of time reading various post for about the last year I can 
>honestly say that I am quite disappointed with this forum. The whole 
>discussion about "protien denaturing and re-naturing" is one of the most 
>absurd discussions I have ever heard. I have shared this resource with the 
>brewmaster of the local micro and his only comment about it was "these people
>obviously don't spend any time brewing. They talk too much to have time to 
>brew anything." I must agree with his sentiment. I believe that this could be 
>a much better forum if we had more talk about what/when somebody brewed than 
>"pretien re-naturing" (which is the most useless topic I could imagine). If we 
>had more reicpies and more talk about history of beer and brewing
>techniques and the like then this would indeed be the ultimate forum for 
>discussion about beer that I could imagine.

Another post a few digests ago stated basically the same thing.  Both the 
FOOP discussion and the fermenter geometry discussion have given some depth
to this digest that has been lacking for a long time.  I am sure there are
alot of brewer's reading this digest like myself, accomplished all grain
( or extract ) brewer's who may not contribute frequently because when there 
is a beginner question, an advanced brewer who posts more frequently will 
answer. But we are not knowledgable enough to join in the conversation of FOOP
or fermenter geometry.  To people like me, this is where the value of the HBD
lies.  

As to the value of the protein denaturing/renaturing, to people who keg and
force carbonate, such as myself, discussion like this holds a lot of merit.
For those people who are considering extending there brew length from 5 to
10 or 15 gallons, fermenter geometry is important to consider for what shape
fermenter to build or buy.

Personally, I skip over recipes in the digest.  I would much rather see a 
discussion of affects of ingredients, such as identical grain bills/varying
yeast discussions that have occurred in the past.  I'm not impressed with 
"here's my recipe and I like it" posts.

Remember, this is the homeBREW digest, not a beer lover's digest.  Anything,
even complex microbiology and physics, that pertain to any aspect of the
beer making process, should be fair game for discussion.

Sorry to ramble, I've stayed out of most of "content of the digest 
discussions", but some useful info for advanced brewers is starting to show
up more frequently and I don't want to see it disappear.

Bob Chizmadia               chiz at atmel.com
Colorado Springs, CO


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Date:        Fri, 09 Dec 94 15:37:38 MST
From: Gabriel M Guzman <ICDI%UTEP.bitnet at utepvm.utep.edu>
Subject: 

Hello,
  My name's Gabe Guzman and I recently saw your address in a book of
mine... I am a fan of homebrewing and would like to become a member
of your mailing list... thank you for your time.
                                          G.G.

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Date: 9 Dec 1994 14:38:58 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Twas a While Before Christmas

Twas a few weeks before Christmas and all around the house, not an airlock was
bubbling, in spite of myself.  My Vienna was lagering in the refrigerator out
there, with hopes that a truly fine beer, I soon could share.

The Airstat was useless, 32F couldn't be set, so I turned the Fridge to Low, to
see what I would get.  On Monday it was 40, On Tuesday lower yet, On Wednesday
morning I tweaked it, seemed like a good bet.

Later that day when I walked out to the shed, my nose gave me pause, I was
filled with dread.  In through the door I hurried and dashed, when I tripped on
the stoop and fell with a crash.  Everything looked ordinary, well what do you
know, but just in case, I opened the fridge slow.

When what to my wondering eyes should appear, My carboy had FROZE, I had made
Ice beer!  My first thought was tragic, I was worried a bit, I sat there and
pondered, then muttered, "Aw Sh**!"

More rapid than eagles, my curses they came, and I gestured and shouted and
called the fridge bad names. "You Basturd! How could you!  You are surely to
blame!  You're worthless, You're scrap metal, not worth the electric bills I'm
paying!  To the end of the driveway, with one little call, They will haul you
away, haul away, haul away all!"

Unlike dry leaves that before the hurricane fly, when brewers meet with an
obstacle, they'll give it another try.  So back to the house, wondering what to
do, five gallons of frozen beer, a frozen airlock too.  And then in a
twinkling, I felt like a doof, the carboy wasn't broken, the beer would
probably pull through.

I returned to the shed, after hurrying around gathering cleaning supplies,
towels, whatever could be found.  I changed my clothes, having come home from
work, if I were to stain them, my wife would go berzerk.  I was loaded with
paper towels, I knew just what to do, I had Iodophor-ed water and a heating pad
too.  

The carboy, how it twinkled!  I knew to be wary, the bottom wasn't frozen but
the ice on top was scary!  That bastard refridge, it had laid me low, trying to
kill my beer under a layer of snow.  I cleaned off the top and washed off the
sides, picked up a block of ice and threw it outside.  I couldn't find the
airlock, it was under a shelf, and I laughed when I saw it, in spite of myself.
 

The work of a half hour out there in the shed, soon gave me to know, I had
nothing to dread.  The heating pad was working, the ice fell back in, I
re-sanitized the airlock, I knew where it had been.  Not an Eisbock, but a
Vienna I chose, it was the end of the crisis of the lager that froze.

I sprang to my feet, to my wife gave a whistle, and we went off to bed under
the down comforter to wrestle.  But the fridge heard me exclaim as I walked out
of sight, "Try that again, you bastard, and you'll be recycled all right!"

John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com  Huntington Beach, California
          *Brewing is Fun*

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 14:18:17 -0800 (PST)
From: dsherman at sdcc3.UCSD.EDU (Dan Sherman)
Subject: diacetyl rest ques.

I was scanning through some recipes in the Cat's Meow 3 on the www,
and saw a reference to a "diacetyl rest" in one of the recipes
(sorry, I forget which one).  The author of the recipe mentioned a
24 hour diacetyl rest, after lagering, before bottling.

My question:  what exactly is a diacetyl rest?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that diacetyl is most
often produced when wort is fermented at temperatures which are too
high (I imagine this is yeast strain dependent).

I'm planning my first lager & have the starter going at 48 F, which
will be the same temp. as my primary fermentation.  Is a diacetyl
rest necessary if my fermenting wort never gets above 50 F (using
Wyeast Bavarian Lager #2206)?

TIA

Dan Sherman
San Diego, CA
dsherman at ucsd.edu

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Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 19:46:05 -0500 (EST)
From: HRWAGNER at delphi.com
Subject: subscription request

SUB HOMEBREW Harry Wagner

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Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 19:26:00 -0500 (EST)
From: GARY SINK 206-553-4687 <SINK.GARY at epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: G.Heileman joins the fray


          The Seattle P-I reports that G. Heileman Brewing (Rainier, Old 
          Style, Lone Star Beer) -plans to introduce a new line of beers 
          under the "Yakima" brand aimed at drinkers who might otherwise 
          defect to imports or microbrews.  They may introduce as many as 
          30 new beers in 1995...blah blah blah..."As for the strategy of a 
          major beermaker introducing so many speciality brews, the 
          outspoken (Bert) Grant said Heileman is 'flailing around... 
          They're hoping one will take off.'" 
          
          Hmmm, craft brewing, 10,000 bbl at a time.
          
          GSINK
          sink.gary at epamail.epa.gov


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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 17:01:08 -0800
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: Stabile Fermentation Temp / Don't Try This At Home!!!

Ronald Dwelle (dweller at GVSU.EDU) wrote:

>It's winter and cooling down in my brew space. I basically cannot 
>easily control the temperature of my wort during ferment and tend to 
>have anything from 50-65 F during a two-week stint. Last winter, I 
> tried the following yeasts [snip]
>     
>Any suggestions short of investing in some sort of wort warmer/cooler?
>     
>Any suggestions for a super cheapo temp controller (I use 5-gallon 
>carboys, mostly).

The easiest way is to buy a 32 gallon plastic garbage pail, put your 
fermenter in it, and fill it to the level of the wort with water. I add a 
little iodophor to keep it algae- and mold-free. The high heat capacity of 
the water keeps your brew temperature *very* stable. This fall the 
temperature of my brew porch fluctuated from 55 - 75 F, but the water baths 
kept my fermentations right on at 65 F. The lids help to keep dust, dogs, 
and other villains out of your brew. I bought two Rubbermaid trash cans on 
wheels for about $10 each - it's nice to be able to move them around without 
dislocating your spine! :-)

*****

On another note I had a most disagreeable experience last week. I woke up in 
the wee hours to head off to an early business meeting last Friday and 
groped into my pocket for my contact lens "wetting solution".  
Aaaaarrrggghh! It was hop oil! Two hours in emergency under an eye bath 
added to the experience. It's an odd catch-22 that you can't see what you're 
putting into your eyes until you put in eye drops. I'm wiser now, and 
probably no worse for wear, but the alcohol and pH 5 of the drops definitely 
did a number on my mucous membranes for a few days. ;-( [actually it was the 
left eye]. Fortunately this incident has not dampened my enthusiasm for 
lupulin.


Cheers,

G.

- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Bell                   "Quis dolor cui dolium?"
Lake Elsinore, CA                
(909) 674-3637 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 17:32:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Julie A Espy <jespy at tuba.aix.calpoly.edu>
Subject: 


set homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com nomail


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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 17:54:52 -0700 (MST)
From: todd boyce <tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org>
Subject: Water Heaters, Protein/Fermenter drivel

	Thanks to the two people whom e-mailed me suggestions on
converting the heating element on my leaking water heater to more suitible
purposes. The guy whom wanted info forwarded, it bounced.
	The conversion is accomplished with a 10 dollar or less part that
can be obtained at a plumbing store, or if your buying new heater they are
shipped with both orifices, so just ask the guy whom is installing the new
unit for the other set(propane). Break out the power tools and saw in half or
whatever, thats about it. Oh and put that 70 bucks that you saved on a king
kooker to better uses. I'm going to try it. This time next year I'll
repost the results.
	I have to mention that I support D. Owens views on the recent
discussions on molecular structures of wort proteins. Post it to
scientific brewers digest or some such other ego trip place. Yes I do scroll
past
those posts. I can remember watching in amazement as my Weissen yeastys
chased each other around in chaotic circles, gorging on fermentables in a
5 gallon carboy. How's that for vessel convection? O.K. ?

Todd Boyce
tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org
	



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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 00:20:55 -0500
From: GRMarkel at aol.com
Subject: Coriander / Hops????

c:\hbd.txt

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Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 22:04:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Mumford <pmumford at seanet.com>
Subject: Re: winter yeasts

greetings brewers!

d weller writes about problems with cold fermentation with ale yeasts in 
winter.  there are various easy solutions to this problem.  the first 
thing to do is insulate the carboy - a foam camping mattress is useful.  
if that doesnt do it, try putting the carboy in a cabinet with a 
lightbulb.  i've found a fifteen watt bulb will keep my carboy between 67 
and 70 degrees.

cheers, peter mumford

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Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 23:57:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Fermentap / pH meter / value of FOOP thread

Brewers,

I have a Fermentap and used it for the first time on an all-grain oatmeal stout
I brewed on 12/3.  At this point I'm not happy with the device but I'm going to
try it on a few more batches before I give up on it completely.

I bought the Fermentap as a weapon to use in the Trub Wars.  I get lots of trub
in my fermenter and it really bugs me; I figured that the Fermentap would be
ideal for getting rid of the stuff with a minimum of hassle.  Unfortunately
this has not been the case with my current batch.  I have found that the trub
tends to adhere to the sides and neck of the inverted carboy, making it
difficult to get rid of in a concentrated form.  I have lost over a gallon of
beer in attempting to drain off the trub, and I still have a significant
residue.

I have also noticed some leaking around the valve assembly (maybe a
half-teaspoon a day) which bothers me primarily because it's a sanitation
hazard.  I was also annoyed to find that the Fermentap does NOT work on 6.5
gallon carboys, as advertised.  The valve assembly does not fit tightly into
the neck of the larger carboy.  One of the main reasons I opted to buy a
Fermentap as opposed to a BrewCap was the ability to use a larger carboy as a
fermenter (I don't like to use the "blow-off" system).  (I should also note
that another strike against the BrewCap was the fact that it took ~6 months to
hear back from BrewCo after sending them my dollar.)

So, while I'll be trying a few more batches with the Fermentap, at this point I
wish I had bought another 6.5 gallon carboy with the $30.00.

Abrupt change of thought:  I just ordered a digital pH meter that may appeal to
other gadget-heads.  It's called the pHTestr 3, and it's manufactured by Oakton
(a trademark of Cole Parmer Instruments).  It features automatic temperature
compensation up to 122 F and multipoint calibration.  Resolution is +/- 0.01
pH; accuracy is +/- 0.02 pH (+/- 0.05 pH at the extremes in temperature range). 
It's a little pricey at $89.50 but I really wanted a unit with automatic
temperature compensation.  I ordered it through the lab I work for from
Sigma-Aldrich, phone number 800-325-3010.  The catalog number of the unit is
Z25,313-8.  I don't know if Sigma-Aldrich will sell to individuals (actually
I'm pretty sure they won't) but the resourceful among you may have ways of
getting around that.

Lastly, I would like to say that I have found the recent FOOP discussion to be
very interesting, unlike other some other subscribers.  I am interested in the
science of brewing more than the art of brewing, and discussions like these are
much more welcome than requests for brewpubs, etc.  I kindly advise the
gentleman to stick to rec.crafts.brewing if he'd rather skip discussions of
more advanced brewing-related matters; on the other hand, if you keep reading
the HBD you just might learn something.

Jay Lonner / 8635660 at nessie.cc.wwu.edu / Bellingham, WA

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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 94 07:27:00 EST
From: anthony_meehan at Merck.Com (Anthony Meehan)
Subject: Aeration and Alcohol


In HBD #1596 Marybeth Raines points out:  "The so-called Crabtree effect 
suggests that fermentation can occur in the presence of oxygen if the 
glucose concentration is
above 1%", and "The reason why I don't think continuous aeration will give a 
non-alcoholic beer is because fermentation can occur in the presence of 
oxygen".  Fermentation occurs in aerobically growing yeast at high glucose 
concentration because of limited capacitance in the Krebs cycle; that is, in 
the presence of excess glucose, the rate of carbon flux through glycolysis 
(glucose to pyruvate) is higher than the rate of the reactions downstream 
from pyruvate (through the Krebs cycle and respiration).  The excess 
pyruvate is converted to ethanol and creates ATP in the process. After the 
glucose has become exhausted, the yeast can aerobically consume the ethanol. 
 It is, therefore, possible to make a non-alcoholic beer with continuous 
aeration; but you'll have to wait a while because there's a lag between the 
glucose metabolism and ethanol metabolism. In addition, I don't know how 
oxygen will affect your taste and sterility.

Tony Meehan
meehan at merck.com

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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 08:46:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com>
Subject: Wort Guard & Oxygen Free Bottling

Like many of you I own a kegging setup but also bottle (for contests, 
friends, etc.) Recently I went out and bought myself a "toy" for brewing. 
Williams Brewing, San Leandro (I'm not affiliated with them, etc>) sells 
a device called the wort guard. Its a hose which fits on to your C02 tank 
and allows you to spray CO2 into carboys, kegs, etc. providing a blanket 
of CO2 over your wort and preventing oxidaion. If you spray about 8 
seconds of CO2 into a receiving carboy the transfer is oxygen free.

I expanded this principle to bottling. Now after cleaning the bottles and 
just before filling them from my keg filled with beer and corn sugar (for 
carbonation) I spray a shot of CO2 into each bottle, I then fill from the 
keg into the bottle. No mess. No waste. No (or not much) oxygen.

Admittedly not worth buying a kegging setup for, but if you've already 
got it, it makes bottling a breeze!

 Phil Brushaber   *******   pbrush at netcom.com   *******   Dallas, Texas


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Date:    Sat, 10 Dec 94 13:00 EST
From: "Lee A. Kirkpatrick" <WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: replies to my hot-side aeration question

Thanks to all the people who responded to my question about
hot side aeration.  I had described my method (based on Papazian)
of dumping hot or only-partially-cooled extract-based wort from
my cookpot (approx. 2 gal.) directly (through a strainer) into a
fermenter containing cold water.  I wanted to know if the aeration
caused by this aggressive mixing of cold water and hot wort would
cause "hot side aeration" and thus problems.  Here's a brief
summary of the responses I received, for those who are interested:

1) Several people told me that if I'm not getting off flavors
(e.g., "wet cardboard"), don't worry.  Fair enough.

2) Several people suggested cooling the cooked wort more thoroughly
to a temperature below 80 degrees before dumping/sparging into the
fermenter.  It was also suggested that this would also result in
increased cold break, the product of which could be left behind
in the bottom of the pot given sufficient time to settle out
and a careful pour.

3) Two people suggested, in conjunction with (2) above, RACKING
the cooked wort gently into the fermenter and then aerating
subsequently.  This method has the additional advantage of
making it easier to leave break material and other sediment
behind in the bottom of the cookpot.

   The only objection I have to these procedures is that if 80
degree wort is mixed with cold water (at least from my tap), the
resulting mix will be too cool to pitch the yeast -- so I have
to wait for the temperature to increase a bit before pitching.
In my experience, a ten-minute ice bath chills the wort in my
cookpot to about 140-150 degrees, and when I pour this into
my fermenter and top to 5 gallons the resulting temperature is
just about right for pitching (i.e., 70-75 degrees), at least
for the ale yeasts I use.  I like being able to pitch as soon
as possible, both for convenience and to minimize chances of
contamination.

4) The suggestion that wins the simplicity-and-convenience award
was to more thoroughly cool the cooked wort in the pot by simply
adding some of the cold top-off water directly to the cooked wort
in the pot before dumping, rather than adding all the top-off water
directly into the fermenter.  In combination with a brief ice-bath
chilling procedure, this should produce a diluted wort in the pot
that is cool enough for dumping without danger of hot-side aeration.
(And the result in the fermenter should be the same as per my
usual procedure, i.e., pretty close to pitching temperature.)

For my part, I think I'll go with (4), which requires only a minor
modification of my usual procedure and which will then make (1)
easier to attain.

Incidentally, one brewer gently scolded me for using
the term "sparging" to refer to the process of pouring the
contents of my cookpot through a strainer (to remove hops, etc.)
into my primary fermenter; he wanted to reserve the term for
the process of rinsing mashed grains as part of the all-grain
process.  Is there a consensus on this?  I thought "sparging"
was pretty much synonymous with "straining wort," as "racking"
is pretty much synonymous with "siphoning" or "transferring."
This is probably a trivial point, but anybody have strong
opinions about it one way or the other?  I'm not really all that
compulsive (Is there a hyphen in "anal-retentive"?), but I'm
enough of a purist to want to get my vocabulary right.

- --Lee Kirkpatrick (wpsslak at wmmvs.cc.wm.edu)

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Date:    Sat, 10 Dec 94 13:07 EST
From: "Lee A. Kirkpatrick" <WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: two more questions

Sorry to gobble up so much bandwidth today, but I seem to be
full of curiosity this afternoon.  Two questions for the
collective wisdom out there:

1) A friend of mine recently bought some Samuel Smith's Winter
Welcome and found it to be "skunky."  Now, my understanding was
that SS has always been able to get away with using clear bottles
because something about their brewing process resulted in the
elimination of whatever it is in hops that reacts with light
to cause skunkiness.  (Sorry for my imprecision here; I'm
chemistry-challenged.  But I think the gist is right.)  If so,
what's up with the Winter Warmer?  Anybody else come across this?

(2) Does anybody know whether any of our favorite (or not so
favorite) microbreweries are exporting any of their products
to Europe, or have plans to do so in the near future?

Lee Kirkpatrick (wpsslak at wmmvs.cc.wm.edu)

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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 94 12:32:01 CST
From: minter at lsil.com (Michael Minter)
Subject: strainers

Question. What types of strainers are prefered for straining chilled
wort into a primary? During my last batch I tried using a large funnel
that came with a strainer insert and the damn thing clogged after
the first pint or so of liquid had passed through. This doesn't seem
very practical.

Any thoughts?

 -Michael

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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 94 22:32 CST
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Fermentation temperature, Fermentable added to secondary

===> Ronald Dwelle asks about controlling fermentaton temperatures:

>     It's winter and cooling down in my brew space. I basically cannot 
>     easily control the temperature of my wort during ferment and tend to 
>     have anything from 50-65 F during a two-week stint.
>     
>     Any suggestions short of investing in some sort of wort warmer/cooler?
>     
>     Any suggestions for a super cheapo temp controller (I use 5-gallon 
>     carboys, mostly).

Try putting your carboy in a large, plastic garbage can with water in it.
If the ambient temperature is too warm, add frozen plastic bottles (Evian
0.5 liter work well) of water periodically to keep the temperature down.
If it is too cool, try using an aquarium heater.

===> Eamonn McKernan discusses late addition of fermentables:

>I am thrilled to see that people are discussing my question about possible
>ill effects of the late addition (ie in the secondary) of fermentables to
>precious homebrew.

[snip, snip, snip...]

>I have two terrible batches of beer which I am presently blaming on late
>additions of fermentables. ( I'm still relatively new at this brewing thing,
>so I keep trying "improvements". I just hate waiting! I know RDWHAHB.)
>
>A lovely Pale Ale went really bitter after a month in the bottle.
>                                           I had added a pound or two of
>DME to the secondary.
>
>The most recent failure: Unspoken Passion Imperial Stout from Papazian.
>$110 in ingredients, and the stuff is again terribly bitter. Undrinkable.
>I again added DME to the secondary because the OG was too low and it needed
>more zing. A very expensive mistake!

I've not heard that adding frementables to the secondary increases bitter-
ness.  I wonder what would cause that.  Seems odd to me.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 22:03:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Rebecca S. Myers" <rmyers at netcom.com>
Subject: Chief Petty Bottlewasher


Phil Miller comments on marking caps instead of labeling: "This way
I do not have to keep taking off those messy labels, and can wash
some bottles in the dishwasher."

Does the dishwasher *really* work in washing out the bottles? I know
some of you will say, sure, it heat sterilizes them, too. But, having to
deal with a couple of lazy parents who return bottles unwashed, I'd like
to know if this method works, or if I still must employ my four-step
method of, soap soak, scrub, rinse, bleach soak.

Thanks,
Becky





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Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 12:24:30 -0500 (EST)
From: MYETTE at delphi.com
Subject: Converting recipes

Can someone explain to me in laypersons terms on how I can convert an All
Grain recipe to an Extract recipe and the same goes for an Extract recipe to
an All Grain. 

My mashing procedures get me around a 80-85% extract rate.

Ann
Myette at delphi.com

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Date: 11 Dec 94 14:35:18 EST
From: Kerry Drake <75347.2350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Apologies

I've only had access to the HBD for a few weeks.  I think it's great.  I have
one request for everyone who keeps apologizing for posting here - STOP.
This can only be a good source of information and entertainment if
everyone keeps posting.  If someone doesn't like something posted, they
are free to skip over it.  Afterall, it's all just zeros, ones and electron
transfer anyway, I don't think we'll run out anytime soon.

With that off my chest, thanks to all the contributors for a most informative
medium; I've been brewing for about a year (all-grain after the first 4 batches)
and love it.

See how easy that was... No apologies!!

Kerry in OKC    (75347,2350 at compuserve.com)


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Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:22:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE" <SFO at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: Tannins from hi pH sparge

Well I just tried my latest all grain batch, a brown lager.  Great but it
has a bitterness I perceive to be tannins.  I havn't bothered adjusting
pH in the past (I will from now on) so I guess that my pH was too high
since I stopped sparging at ca. 2P.  Now what?  Will this beer ever
age into respectability or is it doomed?  I don't mind aging it 
several years at 5C if it will soften and become enjoyable.  Anyone
age beer with this problem ?  Thanks in advance.

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Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:46:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Ian Russell Ollmann <iano at scripps.edu>
Subject: Raspberry Wheat beer Recipe

A Dark Raspberry Wheat Beer:

In my enthusiastic college days, we put together a wonderful brew, which I
have never been able to drink more than three of in an evening due to extreme
intoxication (I'm a 185 lb. male.) At age of only 2.5 weeks, it won 2nd in
the Dixie Cup fruit beer competition behind a blueberry ale from Brassoria
County, Texas. It, however, probably cannot be called a true beer to you
purists out there, due to its raspberry content and strong wine flavors. I
hesistate to call it a beer myself. It's not a wine either, so let us put it
down as a scrumptious synthesis of the two. Just made some this month and the
recipe still works despite a few years in the back of my head. I highly
recommend everything about it, except cost per bottle (.80 - $1.00): 


For five gallons:
3-4.5 lbs 	Laaglander dark powdered malt extract
3 lbs.		dry or canned wheat extract
11 12oz. cans	Knudsens frozen Raspberry Nectar concentrate (Avail. in 
			whole foods stores)
1.25 oz		Hallertauer Hops (boiling)
0.25 oz		Hallertauer Hops (finshing)
0.5 oz		Saaz Hops (finishing)
1 tsp 		North Sea Irish Moss
1 pkg		Munton and Fison Ale yeast

Be careful with this recipe. At all stages prior to bottling, it it quite
eager to escape from whatever container it is placed in including the wort
pot. Combine grain extracts in your largest pot along with enough water to
fill it 2/3 full (No more than 3 1/2 gals.) and boil for 45 mins. 30 mins
before end of boil, add boiling hops and Irish moss. Add finishing hops 5 
mins. before end of boil.  Upon completion, place in primary fermentation
container, add water to 4-4.25 gals. and allow to cool to 150 deg F. Add six
cans of the Raspberry Nectar, cover and allow to cool to body temp before
pitching yeast.  After a couple of days, when the head subsides, add the
other five cans of raspberry concentrate. (It really likes to go out the top
at this stage.) In two or three more days, the head should again subside, at
which time it should be racked into a glass carbouy with a minimum of head
space. Follow the progress of fermentation. When the ring of bubbles
dissappears at the neck of the carbouy, it is time to bottle. Rack and
combine with 3/4 cup of corn sugar (dissolved in a minimum of boiling water)
and bottle.  It should be ready in three to four weeks from bottling time,
which makes it the fastest wine that I've ever made, if it can be said 
to be such. Personally, I think it's the best too.

				Ian Ollmann





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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1603, 12/13/94