FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  NA, MIT WIZZARDS (Jack Schmidling)
  Looking for Help - with Kegging (JWHITE)
  Sam Adams Thanks (Jack Skeels)
  Iodophor questions ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
  Brue-Heat and Phil's Phalse bottom... (Bob Bessette)
  Re: 5L Kegs and CO2 tanks ("Christopher V. Sack")
  kegging info (npyle)
  WINE-L ("AKI YAMASAKI/COXHEAD")
  Hop Starter for bread (THE SHECKONATOR)
  HOP VARIETIES (John Farver)
  looking for... (ELQ1)
  Pyramid Apricot Beer (Chris Cooper)
  Chico Ale yeast in the cold? (Bryan L. Gros)
  Cocca beer ("KEVIN A. KUTSKILL")
  re: American Yeast (William_L._King.Wbst311)
  SS Keg Mash Tun Conversion Request (Chris Barnhart)
  RE: Jim Koch pellets? / Good beer virus ("Mahoney, Paul")
  Beer-recipes ("Albert van Sambeek P1-CPI 133")
  Millin D/K Malt (Jack Schmidling)
   ("Harralson, Kirk")
  RE: Making a stout (Jim Dipalma)
  snippets (Steve Robinson)
  Eugenol and sugar (Jim Larsen)
  WASHINGTON DC METRO AREA ONLY!! (John Thrower)
  HUNTER AIRSTATS (Richard B Foehringer)
  RE:JK hops, misc (Jim Busch)
  Density ("pratte")
  Re: High Gravity Brewing (Paul Sovcik)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 23:01 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: NA, MIT WIZZARDS

 
 >From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
 
 >That's right folks, taking a 5% etoh solution and heating it to 180^F
 will not reduce the alcohol content. 
 
 Perhaps I am missing something here but this seems to contradict much 
 practical evidence to the contrary.  Could be because I do not know what etoh 
 means?  I heated beer to 170F for 30 minutes and sent the samples to Cornell 
 along with a before sample and the alcohol content was roughly cut in half.
 
 How can you suggest that nothing will evaporate when a liquid is heated?  In 
 fact, if you leave the beer sit around long enough at room temp, you will 
 achieve the same results, viz., the alcohol will evaporate faster than the 
 water.
 
 
 >Subject: Grain mills, KitchenAid etc.
 
 I seem to have lost the attribution on this but it was signed "Mac"
 
 >I happen to agree with the results of the crush off which was reported in BT 
 {Zymurgy js} a couple of issues back. There may be manufacturing quality 
 differences, but the ones tested can all provide an acceptable crush for 
 homebrewing.
 
 I agree also except that the quality differences happen to be significant but 
 were ignored and this made the article worse than boring.  It was dishonest.  
 If the only difference was quality, then this should have been the emphasis, 
 not the boring sieve testing.
 
 > As JS pointed out, the group of award winning, BJCP,
 MIT engineer homebrewers who performed the test, probably don't
 understand how to design a test and didn't want to offend any of the BT
 advertisers. ;-)
 
 I don't recall pointing that out but if you had seen the original report they 
 submitted to Zymurgy you would understand how inane your attempt at humor is.
 
 The report submitted to Zymurgy by the "award winning, BJCP, MIT engineer 
 homebrewers" was the sleaziest piece of journalistic rubbish I have ever read 
 and it was rewritten, edited and re-edited several times under threat of 
 legal action from yours truly.
 
 I won't bore you (maybe I will sometime) with the whole original report but 
 here is just one example of unbiased journalism produced by MIT BJCP 
 wizzards...
 
 The following are the opening sentences of the paragraphs introducing each of 
 the three mills....
 
 
 "The Glatt Malt Mill is mostly constructed of sheet metal and formed steel 
 plates with an approximate weight of 10 pounds.  All metal parts are finished 
 with a bright yellow enamel paint"......
 
 
 "The Philmill is mostly constructed of electroless-nickel plated steel with a 
 red-oak mounting board and weighs approximately 5 lbs".....
 
 
 "The Maltmill is mostly constructed of fiber board and weighs approximately 
 16 pounds.".....
 
 Now I don't wish to be contentious but words do mean something and when 
 something that weighs 16 lbs is described as "mostly constructed of fiber 
 board" I would not expect it to contain 14 lbs of steel, aluminum and bronze.
 
 The major fiberboard part is the base which the "bright yellow enamel" mill 
 does not even provide much less make it out of steel as one would be led to 
 believe and the one made out of "red-oak" is only somewhat larger than a 
 postage stamp.
 
 There are dozens of similar examples of objective, unbiased journalism and 
 meticulous attention to details by the engineers from MIT in their report.
 
 The published version was edited enough to mitigate my wrath to the point of 
 calling off the lawyers and I settled for simply writing a letter to the 
 editor and declining continued support for the AHA.
 
 Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to clear the air.
 
 js
 

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 08:20:33 EST
From: JWHITE at octrf.on.ca
Subject: Looking for Help - with Kegging


     
     
     Would anyone have any information about purchasing or building a 
     keg/tap system so that I wouldn't have to worry about bottling and so 
     I could have homebrew on tap for all of my friends who thinks that a 
     good beer must come from Molson's.
     
     
     Information on equipment, prices, companies would be beneficial; pros 
     and cons 
     
     Also I live in Northern Ontario.
     
     
     Any and all information welcome...
     
     
     
     Jason J White
     Behavioural and Community Cancer Research
     Northeastern Ontario Regional Cancer Centre
     jwhite at octrf.on.ca

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Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 21:50 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Sam Adams Thanks

Thanks to all who responded (Ed Holderman, Rick Larson, Mark A. Stevens, Don
"DonBrew", Harry Covert, Glenn Gearhard, and Roger Grow) with recipes for
Sam Adams Lager!  I have compiled the answers and if you would like them,
please drop me an e-mail and I'll pass them along. There were basically
three recipes.

FWIW, I've designed my own recipe (Extract and Spec Grains) as a result of
the information that I received.  As expected, a coiuple of folks wrote
asking why I was so apologetic about brewing/drinking Sam Adams, and a few
asked for recipes.  I think that I have replied to those that asked for
copies, so if you haven't received anything, let me know.

BTW, there was one in the Cat's Meow, but I had an old version (oooops!)

Thanks again!

Jack 
JSKEELS at mcimail.com



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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 10:02:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Iodophor questions

Hey HBDers,

I know this has been discussed in the recent past, so let me put my ignorance 
on display and ask:  Can someone give me the ins and outs of using Iodophor 
for sanitizing?  I just picked up a 33 oz. bottle for use with my Christmas 
present (a kegging system!  yes!) and realized that I am unsure what 
concentration to use for sanitizing bottles, carboys, kegs, etc and whether 
it needs to be rinsed.  I *must* apologize for the novice/redundant 
question.  Thanks for any help!  BREW ON!

Bones
==================
tim laatsch
laatsch at kbs.msu.edu
k'zoo MI
qualifications: virtually none (i.e. micro grad student)

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 10:57:40 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at hawk.uicc.com>
Subject: Brue-Heat and Phil's Phalse bottom...

Fellow HBDers,
 I recently posted to the HBD about my first all-grain batch and had a few 
questions about the Phil's false bottom and the Bru-Heat. To re-cap, I had a 
"trickle sparge" as I called it with my first all-grain batch due to the 
Phil's false (phalse) bottom lifting up when I doughed in my mash water and 
grains. As a result, mucho grains ended up beneath the false bottom which 
let to the "trickle sparge". I also had some questions about the Bru-Heat. I 
had heard that there was some concern that a plastic taste could be imparted 
to the beer. 
 Well, I want to thank the MANY responses I got to my questions/concerns and 
the many encouraging words about my venture to the all-grain process. First I 
would like to say that the overwhelming concensus about the Bru-Heat is that 
it DOES NOT impart any plastic taste to the beer due to the fact that the 
plastic is food grade. It was also suggested by many that using it for mashing
was not recommended but there were some who did use it for mashing. It was  
better suited for heating sparge water and for boiling. Also it was 
recommended to buy the 220V style since it will be very difficult to achieve a 
boil with the 110V. This could be a problem though because you would have to 
use a 220V outlet such as your stove or dryer. I can easily access my stove 
plug via the drawer for the pans under my stove. All in all, I heard from many 
very happy and long-time users of the Bru-Heat and I am seriously considering 
it at least for heating sparge water and for boiling indoors.

 My other issue was the Phil's false bottom lifting up and getting the grains 
underneath. It was very nice to hear that there are many others out there who 
had similar experiences. Most of the suggestions were to just hold the false 
bottom down with a spoon until the grains are holding it down. One very 
innovative idea came from jeff humphreys who had this suggestion:

>To prevent my false bottom from rising up, I use 3/8" copper
>tubing (instead of plastic tubing) to run from the false bottom to the spigot
>on my gott cooler. The rigidity prevents floating. Weights will slide around
>while stirring the mash (tried that). The copper tubing is connected to the
>false bottom with a 1" piece of siphon tubing . A standard #2 drilled rubber
>stopper fits over the copper tubing and into the back of most 1" plastic
>faucets available at homebrew shops everywhere. I also use a "gasket" made of
>siphon tubing slit down the middle that fits around the circumference of the
>false bottom to prevent grain from slipping under the f.b.
 
This solution seemed to make the best sense to me because I would not have 
to worry about the false bottom rising up as a result and could concentrate on 
the grains. 

 I just want to thank all who responded to me. I realize that I have moved 
into a new realm of the brewing world now that I have gone all-grain. I have 
no intentions of going back to the extract method and I hope by my posting to 
the net there will be others out there who will move to all-grain. Thanks 
again and I'll let everyone know how the "trickle sparge" brew comes out. BTW, 
it is bubbling away and smells wonderful. It's certainly nice to know I have 
some fermentables there...


Bob Bessette (finally an all-grainer...)
bessette at uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087


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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 10:21:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher V. Sack" <cvsack at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re: 5L Kegs and CO2 tanks


 Rich Lenihan asked:
> 5L Kegs:
> 
> Has anyone tried hooking up on of those 5 liter kegging systems to
> a regular CO2 setup (tank, regulator, etc) instead of using the
> disposable cartridges?  The 5L mini-kegs sounds like a great idea,
> but the disposable cartridges seem a little wasteful (and expensive).
> 

I have not tried this myself because I have not yet started to keg, but I 
did find out something that might work.  While at my local homebrew 
store, I noticed that the threads for the CO2 cartridge holder were 
similar to the threads of a 2L soda bottle.  I asked the owner if he had 
a Carbonator (tm) I could borrow for a second.  While the threads were 
not exact, the Carbonator fit well enough that it appeared to seal.  When 
we attached the mini-keg to a CO2 tank, our little retrofit held the 
pressure without leaking.  

Is there a homebrewer who is willing to try this and report to us on the
results? 

Christopher Sack


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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 9:43:32 MST
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: kegging info

Wade Landsburg writes:

> I started putting together a draft beer system several years ago, and
>its finally completed. I'm having a few problems getting the carbonation
>correct.  I am told there is a formula used to calculate this, ie.temperature,
>pressure, volume, etc..  Can any one help me out in this respect?

This is in the archives; here's my standard archive info file:

**

Here's three ways to get to the homebrew archives:

1) anonymous ftp to sierra.stanford.edu

2) email to listserv at sierra.stanford.edu; send HELP in the BODY of the message
   for instructions

3) via WWW; URL is ftp://sierra.stanford.edu/pub/homebrew

You'll find the HomeBrew Digest archives, as well as general FAQs for the HBD
and the usenet group rec.crafts.brewing.  Also, there is a yeast FAQ, a hops
FAQ, and some equipment files, including a good starter on kegging.  A full-
blown keg FAQ is in the works, as well as an all-grain FAQ.  There are also
lots of recipes and even some labels for your homebrew.  Please use this
valuable resource.  Note that during peak hours the server may act strangely,
including just ignoring you.  Try to use it during relatively quiet times,
and consider your time zone difference (it is in California, USA).

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 11:05:36 GMT -0600
From: "AKI YAMASAKI/COXHEAD" <YAMASAKI at ae.agecon.wisc.edu>
Subject: WINE-L

Hi, there.  
I am wondering if anybody knows about wine-making process and/or 
anyting about wine.  Is there WINE-L at all??? I know it is silly to 
ask this question to "beer" folks, but I believe there are people who 
love wine as much as beer out there...

Aki
yamasaki at ae.agecon.wisc.edu 

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 12:21:01 -0500 (EST)
From: THE SHECKONATOR <BSHECK at nimue.hood.edu>
Subject: Hop Starter for bread

     My wife called my attention to a recipe for bread starter. The recipe is
from _The Complete Book of Breads_ by Bernard Clayton, Jr. Simon & Schuster, NY 
Copyright 1973. We got the book when, a looong, loong time ago when we first
were married (circa 1971) we joined the Doubleday Book Club, and it was one of
the monthly offerings. I am not sure whether it is still in publication.

     Throughout the years, my wife has produced many delicious loaves from the
directions in this book. But it was just today that she mentioned to me the
recipe for a HOPS STARTER that I sat up and took notice. I have only been
brewing since October, 1992; since then, I have been in tune with anything
relating to yeast/hops/malt/etc...

     Sure 'nuff, on page 307 of aforesaid book, there is a recipe for HOPS
STARTER. I will repeat it, no intent to defraud the original copyright
intended:

[ BTW, if you think I have violated the sacred copyright of the author, please
disregard the following post, hitting the delete key until you see the next
message...]

Quote:

Hops Starter

3 cups water
1 quart fresh hops or 1/4 cup packaged dry hops
1/2 cup cornmeal, white or yellow
2 cups mashed potato
3 tablespoons sugar
2 teaspoons salt

1.   In a saucepan bring water to a boil and steep hops for 30 minutes. Drain
and reserve the liquid; discard the hops. If necessary add water to make 3 full
cups of liquid.

2.   Pour 1 cup of the hops liquid in a saucepan and stir in the cornmeal.
Bring to a boil over medium heat, stirring constantly. When it thickens
slightly, remove from heat.

3.   In a large mixing bowl combine cornmeal mixture, mashed potato, sugar,
salt and the remaining 2 cups of hops liquid. Cover the bowl with a length of
cheesecloth and set in a warm place (80-85 degrees F ) for 24 to 48 hours or
until well fermented and bubbly. Stir every 8 hours or so during this period.

4.   When the starter is frothy and smells pleasantly fermented, pour it into a
2 quart jar with a tight fitting lid. Store in the refrigerator until clear
liquid has risen to the top of the mixture in about 2 days. Stir down - it is
ready to use.

     To replenish when only 1 cup remains; add water, cornmeal, mashed
potatoes, sugar and salt (as to begin). Set in a warm place. It will ferment
and become active in about 8 hours. Store in refrigerator.

                              <-------------------->
Comments:

     I know from reading the HBD that hops act as an inhibitor to nasty
microbes, but will allow yeast (fortunately) to propagate. 

     In the list of ingredients, "1 quart fresh hops or 1/4 cup packaged dry
hops" I can only imagine what the original author means. I kinda guess if you
used 1 quart of whole hops, you'd wind up with one helluva heavy hop load <Just
my cup of tea!>. I have yet to taste a brew that had tooo many hops in it. 

               ----<Hi, my name's Bob and I am a Hop Head.>---- 

     Para 2: D'ya think this is a lame attempt to 'mash-in' the cornmeal?

     I haven't tried this yet. I'm no longer in pursuit of the perfect loaf.
I'm in pursuit of the better batch <G>. {Don't let yer batch loaf}



- --> Nuclear Families _DO_ Glow in the Dark!        BSHECK, ME-SHECK, abendigo!
                    >>>-------==The Sheckinator==------<<<
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." -Groucho Marx

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 09:29:49 -0800 (PST)
From: John Farver <bruticus at pnw.net>
Subject: HOP VARIETIES


  In HBD 1595 some one ask about Lublin and Strisselspalt hops.
  I'm slow but here it is.
  French Strisselspalt is a major aroma hop from the Alsace area near 
  Strasbourg.  AA%-3.0-5.0, Beta %-3.0-5.5, cohumulone is 20 to 25% 
  of alpha acids.  It's a well accepted aroma hop similar to 
  Hersbruck in profile.  The aroma is of medium intensity, pleasant
  and hoppy.
  Polish Lublin is a Landrace variety grown in the area of the same
  name and widely believed to be a clonal selection of Sazz.
  AA%-3.0-4.5, Beta %-2.5-3.5, co-humulone is 25 to 30% of alpha acids
  Another source of the classical noble aroma type hop with long
  and strong traditions.  The aroma is mild and typical of noble
  aroma types.

  Tip- there is a new bittering hop out called Columbus (15% AA)
  good hop not overpowering.  Ask your supplier to get some.
  Also due to a shortage of the extremely popular Centennial hop
  Hop Union has began making a blend called Centennial-Type,
  it is very close and is good on its own merits.

  The above info comes from my pals at Hop Union USA here in Yakima.

  Later, John

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 10:34:56 PST
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: looking for...

   A clone recipe of Red Tail ale? All-grain or extract for my buddy the
   rightious rev. Rio-Samma, a first time pendejo brewer. Thanks in Advance 

   Ed Quier          ELQ1 at PGE.COM        707-444-0718 wk. 

  Brewing Live! from behind the Redwood Curtain, Eureka!  Ca.

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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 15:43:54 -0500
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Pyramid Apricot Beer

Just a quick inquiry for a net-impared friend:  Does anyone out there in 
HBDland have any information on an apricot beer produced by Pyramid brewing
or some simular name, she would like to get some of this beer for her husband
and an address or at least a clue as to where this brewery is would be helpful.
TIA (private email is fine).

Malty Christmas and Hoppy Brew Year to all.

Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Where ever you go <--
ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com         --> There you are     <--
 


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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 15:11:27 -0800
From: bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Chico Ale yeast in the cold?

Darryl Richman, in his book _Bock_ mentions that Wyeast 1056 
(aka Sierra Nevada yeast, or Chico ale yeast) works well down to 
50F.  If so, this would be a good yeast for people who's basements 
get this low this time of year. 

Has anyone experience with this yeast at this temperature? I
just made a pale ale with this yeast which fermented fine at about
60-62F.

                                  - Bryan
                                    bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu


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Date: 15 Dec 94 20:02:29 EST
From: "KEVIN A. KUTSKILL" <75233.500 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cocca beer

I recently received a package of some fine imported cocca powder,
and my first thought was (of course) BEER! :-)   Is there anyone out
there that is willing to part with a good, tried and true recipe for 
a beer using cocca powder?

TIA,

Kevin Kutskill, Clinton Twp., MI
75233.500 at compuserve.com


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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 04:44:42 PST
From: William_L._King.Wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: re: American Yeast

Greetings:
Both Wyeast's and YeastLab's American Ale yeast are reputed to be sourced from
Chico. What, where, or who is Chico?
Bill K.

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Date:     Fri, 16 Dec 94 8:17:31 EST
From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha at letterkenn-emh1.army.mil>
Subject:  SS Keg Mash Tun Conversion Request

Hi all,
Anyone have any good ideas, plans, etc. for converting a 15.5
gallon SS keg to a mash tun?  I'm currently using the picnic
cooler/slotted copper manifold setup.  I think the SS keg setup
will give me a lot more flexibility with mash types, allow direct
heating, not to mention durability. Thoughts?

On another note, I'm getting a lot of bounced mail trying to 
respond to folks about roller mill plans so I'm not ignoring
those who haven't heard from me.  Send a SASE and I'll make sure
you get a set of plans.  

Barny  

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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 09:01:00 PST
From: "Mahoney, Paul" <MAHONEYP at hq.sylvania.com>
Subject: RE: Jim Koch pellets? / Good beer virus 


According to the Boston Beer Company the main brewery is in Pennsylvania 
somewhere.
This is where Jim Koch makes his brew!

The R & D brewery is in Boston where they try different modifications to 
their brew as well as new types of brew, such as a Sam Adams IPA that they 
are currently market testing!

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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 14:56:05 +0100
From: "Albert van Sambeek P1-CPI 133" <avs at gpa.fuji-ef.nl>
Subject: Beer-recipes


Hello,

I'am a Dutch homebrewer for 5 years now, and I want to try some other 
beer-recipes.
Who could E-mail me complete recipes including: Ingrediants with quality classes
						Maisch schedule
						etc. etc.

I'am looking for sweet-beer recipes for about 18 liter (5 gallon) especially
"Tripel"-beer with 7-9 % alcohol. I normally use yeast which has an optimum 
temperature at 22 degr. Celcius (72 degr. F.)

If you e-mail me info about brewing techniques, please explain the englisch 
brewing slang into "child-englisch", because I don't have enough knowledge from
the englisch language to understand it properly!!!

Thanks in advance.........


Albert "SAM'S BREW" van Sambeek
avs at gpa.fuji-ef.nl
The Netherlands


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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 08:30 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Millin D/K Malt

 
 >From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
 
 >RE: D/C Pils malt.  Anyone having problems milling this stuff?  My JS 
 motorized MaltMill seems to gag on this malt.  Jack, any experience or 
 advice?
 
 Experience yes, advice... hmmm...
 
 I have been using nothing but D/C Pils as a base malt for several years and 
 have nothing but good things to say about it.  Perhaps a little elaboration 
 on the word gag?
 
 If you tell me the serial number of your mill, I can help you trouble shoot 
 the difficulty but we should probably take it off the Digest till we fix it.
 
 js
 
 
 
 

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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 10:10:00 EST
From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at roadnet.ups.com>
Subject: 

Sorry this is late, but I've been out of town and am just now catching up.  
What happened to HBD 1605???
     
Kinney Baughman writes:

>That's the very reason I designed the BrewCap...so you *wouldn't* have to 
>rack to a secondary. 
   <snip>
>Besides, I invented the whole concept of upside down brewing and have been 
>advocating it for almost 11 years now.  I covered all the bases and 
offered >an affordable product to the homebrewing community from day one.  
Why does

I'm glad Kinney took the time to comment on these questions.  The HBD is at 
its best when the experts lend knowledge in their field to the rest of us.  
While we have your attention, I would like to ask a few questions about 
upside-down brewing.  Is there a clever way to dry hop or add fruit (or 
fruit flavoring), or any other additions typically made to the secondary 
without racking?  I don't see any easy way to do this, but I thought you 
may have an alternative method.  If you did have to rack, would you have to 
lift the inverted carboy, with stand, to counter top level to drain it into 
a secondary?  It seems like this would be a pain.

I assume that most people use these for ales and steam beers only; at least 
I know I would have trouble getting one set up in my refrigerator for 
lagering.  I have heard that these will not work on the 7 gallon acid 
carboys, which is what I use almost exclusively.  Is this true?  Is there 
any plans to make a BrewCap for these carboys?

With the tap on the bottom, it must simplify drawing hydrometer samples 
considerably.  Has anyone ever thought of a way to integrate a hydrometer, 
or some other device, to the carboy/BrewCap system to allow continuous 
monitoring of the specific gravity throughout the fermentation process?  I 
really have no idea how to do this, but wouldn't it be great???

>While we're on the subject, there appears to be one other big difference 
>between our two products.  The BrewCap uses a 1/2" blow-off tube.  The 
>Fermentap blows off through a *siphon cane*.  Anyone ever popped a cork on 
>their carboy because a hop leaf clogged the siphon hose? 

I asked in a previous post if anyone had a leakage problem, and nobody 
commented.  I may be pessimistic, but this seems to be a huge risk.  I 
routinely clog airlocks, so I don't think it would take much to clog a 
siphon cane.  I think its only a matter of time before someone ends up with 
5 gallons of beer on the floor.

>-
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>  Kinney Baughman      BrewCo          |      Beer is my business and
>  baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu       |      I'm late for work.
>- 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you ever get any comments about Charlie P. "borrowing" your slogan and 
t-shirt for the picture in his new book?  I read what you posted a few 
months back and expected some comments, but I never saw any.

Kirk Harralson
Bel Air, Maryland


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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 10:27:29 EST
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Making a stout


   Hi All,

In HBD#1605, Peter Williams asks about making stout:

>The first deals with brewing salts.

>Miller - gypsum lowers ph, calcium carbonate raises ph
           - dark grains tend to lower mash ph, therefore, adjust ph
             with calcium carbonate.

>Papazian - all stout recipes in TNCJHB call for gypsum additions.

>Who is right?(if either)

   Adding dark grains to the mash will acidify it as Miller says. I
interpret his advice as given above as adjust pH with calcium carbonate if
necessary, i.e., if the addition of dark malts drops the mash pH below
5.2. If your mash pH is roughly in the range 5.2 - 5.5, don't add anything.
   Personally, I've found when brewing porters and stouts, I get much better
results just adding the dark malt at the beginning of mash out. When I
added them to the mash, I got harsh, metallic notes in the finished beer.
   As far as Papazian's recipes calling for gypsum, IMHO it is not good
advice to recommend the addition of brewing salts without detailed knowledge
of the water chemistry involved. Water supplies vary greatly, even within
relatively small geographic areas, so I suggest you obtain a water analysis
before adding any brewing salts at all.

>Finally - I am using the Wyeast Irish(1098?) liquid yeast.  Any
>suggestions as to  appropriate fermentation temps?

FWIW, here's the blurb I have on that yeast:

WYeast 1084 Irish Ale Yeast
  Slight residual diacetyl is great for stouts.  It is
  clean smooth, soft and full bodied.  Medium flocculation
  and apparent attenuation of 71-75%.  Optimum fermentation
  temperature: 68 deg. F (20 deg. C).  Soft, round, malty;
  the least attenuative of the Wyeast line.  Very nice for
  any cold-weather ale, at its best in stouts and Scots
  bitters.

>Basement is cool - 55F but steady.

I've seen a lot of this in the digest lately, people with cool basments
looking for different yeast strains, etc. My basement is also in the 50-55F
range this time of year. I use a large cardboard box, big enough to hold
two 6.5 gallon carboys, with a 40 watt bulb installed. I set another piece
of cardboard in front of the bulb to baffle the light, and close the lid.
It maintains a steady 65-68F inside for pennies a day, and I don't have to
lug full carboys upstairs.

           Jim               dipalma at sky.com

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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 10:31:41 EST
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com>
Subject: snippets


A few odds and ends from HBD #1606.  (BTW, what happened to 1605?  None of the
subscribers at my site seem to have received it.)

Bob Paolino flames Jim Koch for contract brewing.  While this was certainly true
when he started, since 1989 he has been shipping product out of his brewery
(the old Haffenreffer brewery) in Boston.  In addition to doing his pilot brews
and recipe development there, he also makes most of the Boston Lager and Stock
Ale that we see in the metro Boston area.  The equipment there was purchased
from the old Newman's Brewing Co. in Albany, and he has an annual output of
10,000 barrels.  So while the rest of the country may get contract brewed
Sam Adams products, here in Boston he makes it himself.  And yes, I know that
Jim Koch is a marketing sleazeball who engages in business by prosecution, but
he still makes a damn fine pint of beer.

Peter Williams asks about water treatment for making stouts (amongst other
things).  There are two questions that need to be resolved in order to answer
this.  First, what is the mineral content of your brewing water to start with?
Second, what is the mash pH with the grains that you use for brewing stouts.
pH will be lowered by the presence of cations (primarily Ca+ and Mg+), which
react with phosphates naturally present in the mash to free up hydrogen (H+)
ions.  The presence of carbonate (CO3-) and bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions in the
mash buffer this pH reduction by providing other negative ions for the metals
to react with.

Dark malts are naturally acidic, and will assist in the pH reduction of the
mash.  This is why dark beers were originally brewed in places with high
carbonate water.  So monitor the pH of your mash after doughing in.  Ideally
you would like to be in the range from 5.2 to 5.5.  If your water is moderately
carbonate to start with, you will probably arrive here naturally.  If the pH is
too low, you will need to raise it somehow.  Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3 - chalk)
is pretty insoluble in water, but may be added directly to the mash.  Baking
Soda (NaOH - sodium hydroxide) may also be used to raise the pH.  If your pH
is too high, then it needs to be lowered through the addition of more calcium,
probably in the form of gypsum (CaSO4) for stouts.

Finally, Dan McConnell posts the origins of the YeastLab strains.  Does this
imply that the YeastLab A02 (Chico) is the same strain as Wyeast 1056; that
Yeastlab A04 (Whitbread) is the same as Wyeast 1098; that YeastLab A05
(Guiness) is the same as Wyeast 1084; or that YeastLab L34 (A/B) is the same
as Wyeast 2007?  Also, I was encouraged to see that the YeastLab A03 is the
Whiteshield yeast, as Worthington's Whiteshield is the beer that I try and
emulate with my pale ales.

Steve Robinson in North Andover, Mass.
steve.robinson at analog.com

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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 09:40:39 -0600 (CST)
From: jal at gonix.gonix.com (Jim Larsen)
Subject: Eugenol and sugar


Brian Cole (Cole at nevism.nevis.columbia.edu) writes of eugenol, 
peppers and cloves in his beer. 
 
I brewed my Christmas ale (a loose interpretation of a triple) 
using D&C's Belgian ALE malt, some of the lighter D&C specialty 
malts, sucrose, tettnanger hops, and Wyeast Belgian (O.G. 1.070). 
Primary fermentation was two weeks at ~60F, secondary 
(conditioning) ~40F for two months. I bottled with 3/4 cup sucrose 
and a tablespoon of active yeast. The beer was fully carbonated in 
five days (due to the active yeast, I assume) and has a distinct 
peppery flavor, but no clove. 
 
I'm still new to using Belgian malts, I've never before put table 
sugar in a beer, this was my first use of Wyeast Belgian and the 
first time I added yeast at bottling. Any or all of these 
variables may have created the peppery flavor. It's an interesting 
flavor, not at all unpleasant, and rather appropriate to the 
holiday beer. I still would like to know what caused it. 
 
Any information would be most appreciated.
 
- -------------
 
Chris Williams (inline at VNET.IBM.COM) bemoans the lack of a sugar 
faq and passes on an interesting piece on sugar production and its 
intermediate products. For more information on sugar in brewing, 
check out Jeff Frane's article in Brewing Techniques. I forget 
which issue, but some time this year. 
 
Jim
jal at gonix.com
 
 
 


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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 10:49:23 -0500 (EST)
From: John Thrower <JThrower at RDC.NOAA.GOV>
Subject: WASHINGTON DC METRO AREA ONLY!!


DC METRO Area only--------------------------------------

Sorry for the waste of bandwidth for this request.  But need to do some 
brewing this weekend and have been motorless for the past week.  The only 
hops and yeast I have are in the fridge and have been there for the past 6 
months.  Am not able to make it to Master Brewers --- is there any place that 
is metro accessible that I can pick up supplies?  Specifically the yeast, 
worst case I can use the hops.

TIA                                                     

John Thrower

JTHROWER at RDC.NOAA.GOV

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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 08:20:22 PST
From: Richard B Foehringer <Richard_B_Foehringer at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: HUNTER AIRSTATS


Text item: Text_1

Fellow brewers,
I have found a source for the now defunct Hunter Airstats. If any one is 
interested send me private email or call direct at 916-985-7299. They 
are more expensive than before at $39.00 + shipping, but still a bargain 
as compared to what else is out there.
regards Dick F.

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Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 11:33:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:JK hops, misc

Jim wrote:

<The thought of receiving a
<pound of pellets horrified me and sent chills down my spine. My flesh
<crawled and...well, it bugged me anyhow.

relax, you could do a lot worse than using some good noble pellets.

<The nice girl told me it would be four to six weeks for delivery of my hops
FLOWERS, not pellets.  I can now go on with my life.

Well, dont end your life, but they will be pellets.  A friend just
got his pellets.

<In closing (assuming the girl at BBC knows her stuff), I would like to ask
those of you who must flame Sam Adams to please try to know what you are
talking about rather than just assume the worst.

The girl lied to you.

Bob wrote:

<The beer he markets is brewed at the F.X. Matt brewery in Utica,
probably still the largest contract brewer in the country. (I believe it's
brewed someplace else for the western markets, the Triple "Bock" barley
wine is brewed in California, and some of the seasonals may(?) be brewed
someplace other than Utica.)

Actually, the Tripple bock was brewed in the midwest, I believe in 
Wi or MN, and fermented/aged in the Ca winery, yes a winery.  FX matt makes
some of the SA beers, as does Pittsburgh Brewing (Iron City), Wilkes
Barre (Porter), and Blitz Weinhards.  

<But let's get this straight, Jim Koch doesn't make beer, at
least not anything that I see in the store.  If he does, I hope someone will
correct me.

Some of the specials may come from Jamaica Plains, where he operates a
beautiful dual fired full decoction system from The Pub Brewing (with
stirring motors under the tuns , not above).

Alan asks:

<I would like to know, though, if there are any commercial brewers out there
that do use whole hops, & if so, how they procure & store them.

The biggest one I know of is Sierra Nevada.  Also Anchor.  Its not that
hard of a task, you buy huge orders from the hop brokers (Hop Union, 
Lupofresh, etc) and they store them cold for you, shipping a couple
of months worth as needed.  They need to store them cold anyway, so
it is a service to large customers.  Also, small breweries like River
City in Sac, use whole hops, and Old Dominion has started to dry hop
using whole hops because the brewmaster (and I agree) feel it imparts
a better quality of aroma.  Yes oils are burst in the pelletization
process, but Im skeptical as to if this is benefit.  Also, Anchor Libery
sits on big sacks of Cascade for about 3 weeks prior to packaging (even
though one can dry hop OK in a few days).

Jim Busch
Colesville, Md
r


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Date:          Fri, 16 Dec 1994 12:08:10 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject:       Density

O.K., one more time for Al and Anthony (I'm starting to regret ever 
posting on this subject, it's beginning to eat way too much of my 
time.)

When I use the word TEND, I don't mean STRATIFY.  Please quit trying 
to put that word in my mouth.  Yes, lighter elements will diffuse 
into one another.  However, the heavier elements will have a greater 
concentration at lower levels than they will at higher levels.  Why 
is this?  (I apologize for using a little physics here, but my 
abilities have been called into question.)  In the absence of 
intermolecular forces (ex. Van Der Waals forces), the concentration 
of a gas at a height h is given by

n(h) = n(0) exp(-Mgh/kT)                where

M = mass of the molecule
g = gravitational constant
k = Boltzmann constant
T = temperature in K

If we allow the system to sit for an extended period of time and 
diffuse like Al and Anthony suggest, then T is the same for all 
molecules.  Hence, a heavier molecule like CO2 will experience a 
faster fall off in concentration than lighter ones like O2 or N2.  
This means that the ratio of CO2 to O2 at lower levels is greater 
than it is at higher levels (i.e. the CO2 tends toward the bottom, 
the O2 tends toward the top).  Does this mean that I will die from 
a lack of oxygen at the Earth's surface?  No, the oxygen is still 
there; however, the ratio of CO2 to O2 is greater here than higher up.

Does this analogy carry over to liquids?  For some liquids, yes; for 
others, no.  The mere fact that they are liquids means that there are 
intermolecular forces.  My initial statement was that if additional 
intermolecular forces do not become too great upon dissolving, then 
the less dense components (alcohol) will tend toward the top of the 
container.  For a multi-component system like beer, I would not even 
begin to try to work out the intermolecular forces to determine if 
this is true.  I only offer as evidence a difference in specific 
gravity readings made from the top of the vessel after a long period 
of quiescence and after mixing (and yes, I do believe .003 is 
significant since it has been repeated several times and because it 
would be a lowball figure since the mixed sample should have a lower 
SG than a sample from the bottom of the tank after the long period of 
quiescence).  A much better data point would be to actually measure 
the alcohol content from the top and bottom after the quiescent 
period.  Since I don't have access to equipment that will allow me to 
make this measurement, I leave this to someone else.

John

- --------------------------
Dr. John M. Pratte
Clayton State College
pratte at gg.csc.peachnet.edu
Office (404)961-3674
Fax (404)961-3700
- --------------------------

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Date:         Fri, 16 Dec 94 10:55:37 CST
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: High Gravity Brewing

Jim Busch commented that high gravity boils are useful in homebrewing, however
high gravity fermentations may lead to negative results:

  I have been thinking that high gravity brewing may have a real role in making
a light Budmillooors type beer without needing to use adjuncts.

  Since I have quite a few friends and neighbors who greatly prefer standard
american beers over beers with stronger taste profiles, I have been looking for
a way to make homebrew that would make their tastebuds as well as mine happy.

  Ideally, Id like a beer that was  1) Malt extract based (to lure future
homebrewers with)   2) cost effective ( rice syrup costs more per pound than
malt extract..) and 3) Had a reasonable alcohol content.

   Seems to me that maybe making an American Standard clone (sans adjuncts)
might include high gravity fermentation.

   A recipe with 3 lbs. of light malt extract, 2 lbs of corn sugar, maybe
some carapils for a bit of body and low hops would probably give a beer with
a pretty good flavor profile for your average bud drinker.

   Now, considering that corn sugar will ferment out cleanly given enough
nutrient for the yeast, the way to maintain adequate yeast nutrition (from
malt extract sugars) may be to do a high gravity fermentation and than
dilute the beer by 50-75%.  This would give a desired light flavor profile
wihtout diluting the alcohol past 3% or so.  If brewed with a clean profile
yeast (lager or 1056 Wyeast), unpleasant ester formation may even be able
to be controlled for.

 Does this make sense, or am I missing something?

 -Paul

Paul Sovcik         University of Illinois at Chicago

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1607, 12/17/94