FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Clean and Sanitary - Part 1 (Michael Froehlich)
  Clean and Sanitary - Part 2 (Michael Froehlich)
  Wyeast 1214 (Ted_Manahan)
  1606?? What happened to 1605?? (uswlsrap)
  Breweries using whole hops (Bryan L. Gros)
  Happy Holidays Homebrew Comp results ("Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys")
  Missing HBD 1605 (michael j dix)
  Maltmill & DC Pils (John Landreman)
  Grand Cru request (Jeff Duerk)
  Frugal Brewers Guide ("Robert W. Mech")
  Chico Yeast.... (Andrew Patrick)
  Re: DC Area Homebrew Suppliers (MstrBrewer)
  ANNOUNCE: Homebrew Club Web Page ("K. Toast Conger")
  The "Boston" Beer Company (reagan)
  Strisselspalt / Pyramid Apricot / Chico / Jim Koch brews (uswlsrap)
  sparge question /tips from first-time all-grainer (Robert Parker)
  Need help with an experiment (David Draper)
  STEAM JACKETED KETTLE (Rick Langhorne)
  strain origins/BrewCap ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Re:Funnel filter,carboy glug, FOOP (todd boyce)
  Re: Hops for a year ("Peter Gothro")
  Apologies (Philip Gravel)
  The missing HBD #1605 (it wasn't alone) (Jim Graham)



******************************************************************
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 10:46:45 -0800
From: froeh at trojan.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: Clean and Sanitary - Part 1

 Hi everyone.  I wrote this short piece about cleaning, sanitizing, and
 sterilizing and put it in a homebrew club newsletter.  After looking
 in the archives for FAQ's regarding this subject, I noticed that there
 wasn't any FAQ's that focus completely on this subject. Therefore, at the
 risk of completely being flamed and humiliated on and off line, I will
 put forth this document as a start to a FAQ on cleaning, sanitizing, and
 sterilizing in the homebrew arena.  I will be glad to compile all of
 this information into a FAQ that will satisfy the overall consensus
 of the HBD community. Here is the document in 2 parts, fire at will.

==================== Start Part 1 Here ====================================
CLEAN AND SANITARY  -   
 by Michael Froehlich
 Homebrewer at Large or a Large Homebrewer

   Hello all!  Today's lesson focuses on cleaning and sanitizing
bottles, carboys, other fermentation vessels, and any equipment that 
comes in contact with cooled wort.  Cleaning and sanitizing processes
are completely different.  You can have one without the other.  A 
surface can be cleaned of dirt and grime but there still may be 
active bacteria present and likewise, a surface can be heat 
sanitized but there may be an inert chemical residue that can 
screw up your beer. For better brewing, both cleaning and sanitizing 
must be part of your brewing process.  Even though it is the most 
unpleasant, it is the most important.

   I would like to start out by explaining the differences 
between the terms: clean, sanitary, and sterile. A clean surface
is free of dirt, grime, or other gore. It is easy to clean a surface
but cleaning doesn't mean sanitizing.  

   Sanitization is generally thought of as killing the more 
sensitive vegetative cells but not heat-resistant spores.  Sanitization 
does not necessarily include sterilization, although some processes 
of sanitization accomplish sterilization.

   Sterilization means the freeing of any object or substance from 
_all_life_of_any_kind_, this includes heat resistant spores. For 
microbiological purposes microorganisms may be killed in situ (In place)
by heat, gases (such as formaldehyde, ethylene oxide, or B-propiolactone),
solutions of various chemicals, or ultraviolet or gamma irradiation.  


   The primary methods of cleaning for a homebrewer are:

                   1) TSP - Tri Sodium Phosphate

                   2) Bleach

                   3) B-Brite

                   4) Strong acid or caustic solution

                   5) Scrub like a mad dog

   TSP is a favorite for cleaning because it is great at reducing 
odors and built-up gunk on previously used fermentation vessels.  
It is also relatively inexpensive.  Problems with TSP include:
It's hard to find real TSP (they removed the phosphate agent in the
TSP brand--the one in the orange box--available at the grocery store.
Look for real TSP in Home Depot's paint section); it produces a hard-
to-remove white film on equipment that is soaked for a long time in a
strong solution; and, lastly,  it may cause possible environmental 
disposal concerns.  To use TSP correctly, use about 1-2 tablespoons per 
gallon of water, and rinse well after cleaning.

   Bleach is effective in cleaning and sanitizing and is very 
inexpensive.  Use unscented bleach; the cheapest brand will 
work fine.  Problems with bleach include: it turns clothing white fast;
it requires a thorough rinsing after cleaning (bleach contains chlorine, 
and chlorine compounds don't make the greatest beers); it's more 
harmful to the environment than TSP (don't water lawn with bleach 
water = dead grass); it's very corrosive to stainless steel 
(maximum time in contact less than 2 hours); and, finally, it's  not 
as effective at reducing odors.  Use 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. 
Soak equipment at least 20 minutes for effective sanitization, and
rinse well with water or cheap beer.

   B-Brite is very effective in cleaning and sanitizing, but it does 
cost more than TSP and bleach.  B-Brite has the active ingredient, 
Sodium Percarbonate.  This is a mixture of sodium carbonate and hydrogen 
peroxide.  The sodium carbonate is for cleaning and the hydrogen 
peroxide (H2O2) provides the sanitization.  The sanitizing time 
for B-Brite is 15 minutes.  B-Brite is also very effective at 
reducing odors and is not environmentally damaging. Use as directed.

   Strong acid or caustic solutions are very dangerous to use 
and are not recommended for the average homebrewer. However, 
for cleaning out a counterflow wort chiller (clean every 5 batches
or so), run a solution of 1 teaspoon of Red Devil (a commonly available
drain cleaner) and 1 gallon of warm water through your wort chiller. 
Then flush the solution down a toilet. Be sure to rinse thoroughly.

   Scrubbing like a mad dog will work at cleaning surfaces, but 
you will not be able to reduce odors/gunk to levels that will 
not affect your beer without some type of chemical solution.  
Get comfortable with using chemicals, and remember that properly
used chemicals are not harmful to the environment.

==================== End Part 1 Here ======================================


      Michael Froehlich                        |~~|              O  O
      froeh at thor.naa.rockwell.com              |  |) "Cheers!"     >
                                               |__|              \__/





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 10:47:35 -0800
From: froeh at trojan.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: Clean and Sanitary - Part 2

==================== Start Part 2 Here ====================================
   The following are the preferred methods of sanitizing:

                   1) Bleach

                   2) B-Brite

                   3) Iodophor

                   4) Dry heat, steam, or hot solutions (Actually,
                      using these methods you can effectively achieve
                      sterilization.)


   As you may noticed, bleach and B-Brite are common to both areas.  
These chemicals were discussed above.  

Iodophor is very effective at sanitizing a clean surface. A
solution of 1 tablespoon in 5 gallons of cold water--never use hot--
will sanitize equipment in 2 minutes.  Remove equipment and let air dry.
Equipment is now ready for use.  No need to rinse surface.  Great stuff,
but it's also more expensive than bleach.  There is another benefit
besides the short contact time:  As long as the solution is amber
colored, there's sufficient iodine present to sanitize.
 
Dry heat, steam, or hot solutions are also very effective at
sterilizing surfaces.  Pure heat (i.e., flame or radiative heat from an
oven) can be used only with metal or glass.  Glass bottles can be
effectively sterilized by placing clean bottles in an oven with
aluminum foil over bottle opening (wet bottles work great;
steam is very effective), setting oven to 250 degrees F., letting
them bake for 30 minutes (once the temperature has stabilized), and then
turning off the oven and allowing the bottles to cool slowly.  Boiling wort
or water can sterilize very well and has been used on hoses (watch type 
of hosing, make sure it's heat resistant to 210 degrees F) and 
wort chillers.

As you can see, there are many methods to clean, sanitize, and even
sterilize brewing equipment, and new methods are invented everyday. All
methods require patience and understanding in order to be effective.
If you are careful with your cleaning and sanitizing procedures, your
beers will always taste "clean," i.e., there'll be no off-flavors that
can be attributed to infections from poorly cleaned and sanitized
equipment.
 

***********************************************************************

Definitions:

Sanitization:  Sanitization is generally thought of as killing the  
more sensitive vegetative cells but not heat-resistant spores.  Sanitization
does not necessarily include sterilization, although some processes of
sanitization accomplish sterilization.  Sanitization is usually 
accomplished by chemicals such as phenol, formaldehyde, chlorine, iodine,
or bichloride of mercury.  

Sterilization:  In microbiology, sterilization means the freeing of
any object or substance from _all_life_of_any_kind_, this includes
spores.  For microbiological purposes microorganisms may be killed in situ
by heat, gases (such as formaldehyde, ethylene oxide, or B-propiolactone),
solutions of various chemicals, or ultraviolet or gamma irradiation.  
Sterilization can also be accomplished through mechanical means, such as
filtration and centrifugation.

==================== End Part 2 Here ====================================


      Michael Froehlich                        |~~|              O  O
      froeh at thor.naa.rockwell.com              |  |) "Cheers!"     >
                                               |__|              \__/





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 11:38:29 -0800
From: Ted_Manahan <tedm at hpcvn2ax.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1214
Full-Name: Ted_Manahan


I am planning to use Wyeast 1214 "Belgain Abbey" yeast in a tripple. My
copy of the yeast FAQ doesn't have any information on this yeast. Has
anyone else used it?

I'll be happy to report my experience in a few months...

Ted Manahan
tedm at cv.hp.com
503/715-2856

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 14:41:21 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: 1606?? What happened to 1605??                                   

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino               Research Analyst
Subject: 1606?? What happened to 1605??

Subject says it.  I got 1606 today, but nothing yesterday, and I'm not the
only one not to get a 1605.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 12:55:03 -0800
From: bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Breweries using whole hops

Yesterday, Alan Van Dyke asked about breweries using whole hops vs. pellets.

I would guess that most of the larger breweries use whole hop flowers, and
that they
purchase a year's supply of hops in the fall.  Anchor buys the hops they
need  in November.
They can store a few bales, and they get the hop broker to store the rest
until they need 
them.  I think another benefit would be that when they restock the brewery,
they can get
a more accurate analysis re: Alpha acid and oils.  


                                                - Bryan
                                                  bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 14:59:12 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys" <WOTRING at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Happy Holidays Homebrew Comp results



The Happy Holidays results are here! Big thank yous to all who entered
(180 great beers this year!), really big thank yous to everyone who helped
out, and congratulations to all these winners:

Barleywine
1 Steve Peeler
2 Dennis Davison
3 Jeff Michalski

Belgian/French
1 Jerry Mitchell (belgian ale)
2 Matt Henry  (belgian ale)
3 John Sullivan (wit)

Lambic
1 John Isenhour (gueuze)

Brown Ale
1 Patrick Delozier
2 Paul Demmert
3 Chris Kauffman

Eng Pale Ale
1 Delano DuGarm
2 Ray Daniels
3 Ted O'Neill

American Pale Ale
1 Ray Daniels
2 Jerry Mitchell
3 Tom Keith

Bitter
1 George FIx
2 Jeff Michalski/John Sullivan
3 Rock Roberts

Scottish ales and Old Ales/Strong Scottish Ales (combined)
1 Ray Daniels (Scottish ale)
2 Chris Kauffman (Scottish ale)
3 Lee Bussy/Tom Wick (strong Scotch ale)

Porter
1 John Isenhour/Ginger Wotring
2 John Benson/John Picco
3 Jack Baty

Stout
1 Dennis Davison
2 Randy Loftis
3 Jeff Michalski/John Sullivan

Bock and Bavarian Dark (combined)
1 Lee Bussy/Tom Wick (bock)
2 Bill Falk (bock)
3 Matt Henry (bock)

German Light lager and Pilsner (combined)
1 Jeff Michalski (pilsner)
2 John Sterling/Phil Davis (munich helles)
3 John Sullivan (pilsner)

American Lagers/Cream Ales
1 John SUllivan (cream ale)
2 George Fix (American premium)
3 George Fix (cream ale)

Ocktoberfest
1 Mark Kellums
2 Ron Brooks
3 Ed Westemeier

German Ales
1 John Sullivan/Tom Finan/Jerry Dahl
2 John Sullivan/Jeff Cook 

Fruit Beer
1 Ginger Wotring 
2 Patrick Delozier
3 Bob Paolino

Herb Beer
1 Jim Jordan
2 John Benson/John Picco
3 Mike Westman

Specialty and Smoked Beers (combined)
1 Matt Crowley (honey wheat porter)
2 Tom Finan (anise brown ale)
3 Paul Wenz (orange coriander wit)

California Common
1 Jerry Mitchell
2 John Sullivan
3 Tom Clifton

Wheat Beer
1 Ray Daniels
2 Ray Daniels
3 Curtis Breville

Meads (all types combined)
1 Tony McCauley (traditional mead)
2 Jerry Dahl/Tom Finan (blackberry mead)
3 John Isenhour (cherry ginger mead)

Christmas Brau
1 Ginger Wotring
2 John Sullivan
3 Matt Henry

BOS went to Tony McCauley of the AbNormal Brewers for his Mead! 






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 15:16:17 "PST
From: michael j dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Missing HBD 1605

Per the Digest Janitor, only a few copies of HBD 1605 made it out to 
the reading public (and not to the sierra archive either.)  It is not a
matter of life or death, but perhaps someone could send it to me.

Thanks,

Mike Dix (mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com)

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 10:13:19 MST
From: jlandrem at atmel.com (John Landreman)
Subject: Maltmill & DC Pils

Jim Busch asked about the Maltmill & DC Pils:

>RE: D/C Pils malt.  Anyone having problems milling this stuff?  My JS motorized
>MaltMill seems to gag on this malt.  Jack, any experience or advice?

My MaltMill is not motorized but I have just gone through about 100 pounds of
DC Pils malt with no problems. I have been using primarily belgian malts and
adjusted my mill initially to get a better grind but never have had a problem
with anything except wheat malt.

John Landreman
Colorado Springs, Co

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 10:19:04 EST
From: Jeff Duerk <duerk at arden.uh.cwru.edu>
Subject: Grand Cru request

I am an extract based brewer, yet to take the plunge to all grain, yet
am interested in obtaining an extract based Grand Cru recipe that has been
proven reliable and satisfactory. If possible, a yeast strain that was used 
would be appreciated.  I'll compile responses and repost later.  Please
send reply's to jld3 at po.cwru.edu or duerk at amber.uh.cwru.edu.  I've tried the one
in TNCJOHB with little success due to a huge coriander aroma and flavor.  Any 
ideas?

Good Brewing,
J. Duerk


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 03:37:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net>
Subject: Frugal Brewers Guide

A few words to my fellow homebrewers!

The Frugal Brewers Guide To Brewing Aids has been completed for some time 
now.  Its available via Spencers Beer page, Monthly postings to alt.beer. 
and rec.crafts.brewing on the 8th of the month.  Sorry I cant post 42K to 
the HBD, and it gets larger almost every month...  If you cant get it by 
those methods, email me and Ill mail you back a copy. 

For those of you who dont know what the guide is, I suggest picking it 
up.  It has plans and notes on how to construct many of the things you 
need to brew beer in a very INEXPENSIVE manner. 

Secondly.  Ive been trying to get in touch Barny, the person who has 
plans for the home made mill.  Barny!  I emailed you, it bounced and 
remailed it back.  Got no reply at all!  Id love to add your mill to the 
guide if you can possibly put it in electronic form.  I think this would 
also save Barny alot of time mailing back all those S.A.S.E.'s.  If 
possible could you email me so we could discusss it?

Im still looking for information for the guide!!  *ANYONE* who has 
tricks/tips for brewing by using any household items or construct it 
yourself items, email me with it!  We would LOVE to add it to the guide.  

Happy holidays all!  And thanks for your support with the guide!

 -- 
                   Robert W. Mech - rwmech at eagle.ais.net
           Freelance IS Support / Administration / Programming
    "If you want to get it done right, pay somone else to do it for you."

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 03:55:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com>
Subject: Chico Yeast....

Bill K. asked about the Chico yeast strain:

This is the infamous "Marx Brothers" yeast strain, named after the late 
great Chico Marx.  It is the preferred strain for fermenting "Duck Soup 
Beer".  It is top-fermenting, be sure not to confuse it with its 
bottom-fermenting close relative, Groucho.  The Groucho strain should 
only be used by cigar-smoking homebrewers, as there is an essential 
nutrient found only in cigar smoke which is essential for healthy 
anaerobic reproduction in this strain.

[Note to the humor-impaired:  This is a JOKE!  Chico, California is the 
home of the legendary Sierra Nevada Brewery.  That's why we call their 
yeast "Chico yeast"]

Andy Patrick (andnator at mcs.com)
Certified Beer Judge;  Brewing Instructor-College of DuPage County,IL
Founder, HomeBrew U BBS Network:
Chicago 708-705-7263, Houston 713-923-6418, Milwaukee 414-238-9074

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 11:19:53 -0500
From: MstrBrewer at aol.com
Subject: Re: DC Area Homebrew Suppliers

Try Brew America in Vienna.  IMO they have a better selection than Brew
Masters, grain wise at least.  Prices are mostly similar.  Just a satisfied
customer, no other interest.
Happy Brewing 
Pat Smith

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 11:53:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "K. Toast Conger" <ktoast at netaxs.com>
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Homebrew Club Web Page


Approximately two months ago, we announced the creation of a WWW page for 
homebrew clubs in the United States.  Since then, we have made tremendous 
progress on pulling this list together and have found a new home.  We've 
also decided to go international with the club list.
 
The new homebrew club list is located at:
 
	http://alpha.rollanet.org/infobase/clublist.html
 
The new location includes a form to permit updating of the list.  Please
feel free to file your additions, revisions and deletions. We are
particularly interested in email contacts for existing clubs and URLs for
any clubs that have set up WWW pages. Please be patient with the
changes... like most of brewing, we are doing this in our spare moments. 
 
Thanks to Karl Lutzen for the space and all the system help and to Scott 
Murphy for his long list of email addresses. Comments, criticisms, and 
ideas also welcome to: 
 
	Toast	--	ktoast at alpha.rollanet.org

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
K. Toast Conger			My opinions are those of my company. But 
ktoast at netaxs.com               then again... I -am- my company. Funny how
				that works.
http://www.netaxs.com/~ktoast
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 17:59:55 EST
From: reagan at MIT.EDU
Subject: The "Boston" Beer Company


"Mahoney, Paul" <MAHONEYP at hq.sylvania.com> writes:
|According to the Boston Beer Company the main brewery is in
|Pennsylvania somewhere. This is where Jim Koch makes his brew!
 
Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com> writes:
|So while the rest of the country may get contract brewed
|Sam Adams products, here in Boston he makes it himself.
 
Well, if you look at a bottle of Honey Porter or Boston Ale purchased
in Boston, you see "Brewed in Lehigh Valley, PA."  This would be the
big-n-shiny Schaefer-Stroh Brewery west of Allentown, PA (I grew up
with the smell of their trub and yeast getting dumped into the city 
sewage system!).  This might explain why these beers were $17/case
back in Pennsylvania and up to $23/case here in Boston (my biggest
complaint against Jim(tm): no special consideration for the home-town
crowd!).  The original Boston Lager came out of Iron City in
Pittsburgh, if I remember correctly, but Jim(tm) has expanded since
then. 
 
The Boston Ale is still a fine product, anyway, and I'm happy to see
that enormous, shiny mega-brewery being used for more than Strohs and
Old Milwaukee Light!

/------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Matthew T. Reagan                                 |reagan at athena.mit.edu|
|Massachusetts Institute of Technology             \---------------------|
|Dept. of Chemical Engineering        "caith siar e agus na lig aniar e!"|
\------------------------------------------------------------------------/

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 18:28:06 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Strisselspalt / Pyramid Apricot / Chico / Jim Koch brews         

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino               Research Analyst
Subject: Strisselspalt / Pyramid Apricot / Chico / Jim Koch brews

HOPS: Thanks for the information on the Strisselspalt and Lublin. (Also,
someone told me by email about the Northdown--a little like Northern Brewer.) I
just got my part of a club order the other day. I discovered that the
Strisselspalt, for anyone who wants to know, are running just over 2% AA.
Clearly, not something I'll be using for its bittering qualities.

PYRAMID APRICOT: Pyramid is in Kalama, Washington (SW Washington, 30+ minutes
north of Portland, OR). I tried the apricot wheat ale when I visited the
brewery this summer. It's a lot like I imagine a wine cooler would taste like.
The tour guide said it is brewed without hops. When I asked if she meant that
literally, or if she just meant not a lot of hops, she said no hops. She also
commented that some of the brewers there don't like making the stuff because
itoffends their sense of purity to use fruit extracts. She also said that the
stuff just flies off the shelf, so you may not have much luck finding it. They
make a lot of different wheat beers, and a very nice hoppy pale ale (sold on
tap as a bitter). I'm not thrilled with their sleazy little marketing ploy on
the stout though. The "Sphinx Stout" is a very good beer, but they are
marketing it--on tap and in the 22 ouncers when I was there in August--as
"Espresso Stout."  Now, I and other homebrewers have had our experiments with
coffeee stouts, but this beer doesn't have a drop of coffee in it, it's the
same good Sphinx Stout with a different label (this information from the tour
guide).  More about marketing in a bit....

CHICO: Bill King probably already got the answer by now, but as long as I'm
writing, it's Chico, California, home of Sierra Nevada.

JIM KOCH--Steve Robinson said I flamed Jim Koch for contract brewing.  Not
quite.  There's nothing wrong with contract brewing; there is something about
marketing yourself as a microbrewer who uses recipes passed down through the
family and all that when you're really selling a product formulated by a
consultant.  I asked to be informed about whether any of the Sam Adams products
are actually brewed in Boston, and I got an answer.  Thank you.  The MN/WI
answer to the origin of the Triple "Bock" barley wine was interesting.  I read
the California part from the label (yes, I did part with the $3.59 for a
bottle).  The two big contract brewers in Minnesota are Schell's (New Ulm) and
Minnesota Brewing (Saint-Paul).  Anyone know which one?  I would be very
surprised to hear if it was done by one of Wisconsin's regional brewers that do
some contract work (e.g., Huber or Stevens Point).

As far as "flaming" Jim Koch, I wouldn't go that far.  You're right, he does
sell a drinkable beer.  I don't typically buy it in the store because there are
so many choices, but if I'm in a bar that doesn't have any real microbrews,
yes, I might get one.  I even tried the "Honey Porter" recently as a change
from the SNPAs, Capitals, and Pete's I was drinking that evening. It was way
out of balance--too sweet--and lacked any significant chocolate malt character
that I like in a porter.  It was just a real sweet dark beer, and the student
crowd was drinking it up (at $2 per 23 ounce glass).  But speaking of contract
brews, contrast the marketing of Pete's with the Samuel Adams ads.  I don't see
any pretence of it being sold as a beer from a little brewery in Palo Alto.
It's a contract brew (Minnesota Brewing) and a damn good one, with no pretence
of being a true "micro."

One more comment/question about Steve's reply: "While this was certainly true
when he started, since 1989 he has been shipping product out of his brewery."
Is that the case?  My impression about when he started (before 1989) was that






it originally _was_ from Boston, and it seemed you could get it only in New
England/NYS (back when it was sold in enclosed six-packs, back when the Double
Bock was pretty good stuff).  After I moved to Minnesota for grad school, it
was a big deal that you could then get Sam Adams there and I didn't have to
"export" it from NYS anymore.  I don't remember the year, but that's when I
would expect the big contract brewing would have _started_.

No, I have nothing against contract brewing, per se.  Hell, the pioneer of
microbrewing in the Great Northeast, Bill Newman (whom Steve mentions) from my
hometown of Albany went to contract brewing (in Eau Claire, then Philadelphia,
then Utica, now White River Junction--but now they're lager styles rather than
the real ales he started with) when he wanted to sell bottled product instead
of those famous gallon "cubes" I loved so much.  Certainly in the beginning,
Newman kept fairly close supervision of the contract production of his product.
I wonder how many do that now.

I wasn't just shooting off my mouth (fingers/keyboard?) about Jim Koch.  I
said I could be wrong, and asked, and I got an answer.  But one more thing
about him.  Sometime ago, I saw a press release, and later ads, about open
dating on beers.  I will happily send them numerous examples to add to Koch's
list of beers with open dating.  I will also say that I hope he will change
his labels from arbitrary "freshness dates" to bottling dates, as many beers
show on their labels.  "Freshness" is so dependent on style and storage
conditions that I would prefer to have a concrete date and be able to judge
for myself based on what I know about how it has been stored.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 1994 16:07:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Parker <parker at mote.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: sparge question /tips from first-time all-grainer

I'll briefly describe my first all-grain mash/sparge so that, as well as
helping other all-grain wannabees, the experts can hopefully explain what
was, to me anyway, a surprise. 

I used 6.5 lb Vienna, 2.25 lb 2-row, and .75 lb chocolate which the shop
crushed with an industrial strength coffee grinder where they had adjusted
the widths of opposing plates for grain crushing (supposedly no blades
involved).  I put 12.5 quarts of 166 F water in my plastic bucket
mash/lauter tun with false bottom.  I had dissolved 2/3 tsp gypsum in this
mash water (no water analysis or pH info available for any of this process
though).  The temperature stabilized at about 152 F after adding the
grain.  I wrapped the mash tun in a down sleeping bag and blanket and 1
1/4 hours later the temp.  had dropped 1 degree or less. 

My surprise came when I began the ominous sparge.  The regular discussions
about lengthy, slow, and stuck sparges had me worried.  My question is:
WHY WAS MY SPARGE SO FAST AND EASY?!  (Bob Bessette had the oposite
problem with his recent first all-grain batch). I kept the lauter tun
mostly insulated and lifted it onto my counter.  When I opened the valve,
the initial runnings jetted out.  I recirculated about 7-8 quarts and then
began to collect.  Throughtout the process, the flow never slowed--I was
collecting it faster than I could add it (manually with a 1 quart
measuring cup)!  What happened to the 1-2 hour slow trickling I've heard
about?!  I'd guess I was collecting at a rate of 1-1 1/2 gal/min.  Should
I deliberately slow the sparge flow? I used 170 F sparge water that had
2/3 tsp gypsum dissolved in it. 

I stopped when I had collected approximately 5.5 gal of wort.  The
runnings were still at 1.020 at 75 F.  After boiling (in 2 kettles) I had
about 4 gal of 1.053 wort.  Evidently I'm getting only 22 pts/lb. How
could I be more effective at flushing out all the sugars that are still in
the 1.020 runnings?  Maybe by slowing the sparge by not opening the drain
valve fully?  Amongst other very helpful info, Domenick Venezia suggested
that fast sparges lead to channeling of the sparge flow through the path
of least resistance and reduced extraction. Is stirring the mash a
possibility to reduce this tendency? 

Other first-time all-grainer's experiences helped me so I'll pass along a
few of my hints. 

1.  Cost is not an issue: I got my 5-gal mash/lauter tun (plastic bucket)
from the local Chinese restaurant.  I took a second one and cut out the
bottom, drilled hundreds of small holes in it, and used it as the false
bottom.  For $1.69 I bought a hose barb (they'll show you at the hardware
store if you don't know) and 2 washers.  Attach siphon tubing and a $1.25
flow restrictor to clamp down on the hose from the brew store and your
mash/lauter tun is done.  With the sleeping bag, I can't believe an
expensive Gott cooler is any better. 

2.  Don't worry if you don't have a big kettle: You can either use less
grain and make smaller batches or boil in 2 kettles (which is what I did
since I got more wort than I expected). 

3.  Don't need a wort chiller if you don't have one: Set the kettle in a
container of cold water, turn the hose on low, set the hose in the water,
and let the slow, constant flow (and occasional stirring) cool the wort
very effectively. 

This forum has helped me so much I'd be happy to contribute by providing
any details of my process that might help other beginning all-grainers. 

Thanks everyone for all the great info discussed on hdb!

Rob

Robert G. Parker                        parker at mote.berkeley.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 11:08:08 +1100 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Need help with an experiment

Dear Friends, I posted this once before a few days back, and got the
automagical reply, but it must have been destined for HBD 1605, which as
many have noted went into a bitbucket somewhere (not at sierra either
BTW).  Anyway, I am looking for a kind soul to help me out by sending me
small samples of 4 kinds of commonly-used, widely available malt extract
syrups.  I just returned from a trip to the US where I hoped to get these
myself, but my time, itinerary, budget, and suitcase space all conspired
to keep me from visiting a brewstore.  What I need is about 250-400 ml of
each type of syrup.  I will of course finance the whole deal--extract,
containers to put the samples in, shipping--and you, my helper, can keep the
remaining extract to use for whatever.  Any interested parties, please
send me email and we'll set something up.

Thanks, Cheers, and Season's Greetings, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Dec 94 19:37 EST
From: rick_l at infi.net (Rick Langhorne)
Subject: STEAM JACKETED KETTLE




Can someone advise me if a steam jacketed kettle would make a good boiler 
for about 2 Bbls of brew. I have located one for a reasonable price. The 
only problem is the TANGENT DRAWOFF in the bottom. I am afraid much of the 
trub will settle in this drawoff making it difficult to remove.The larger 
hombrew kettles I have seen had a drain placed about 1" from the bottom to 
provide a space for the trub to settle. Do the tangent port and lack of trub 
space on the steam kettle make it a poor choice for a brew kettle?  Has 
anyone seen a steam jacketed kettle used to brew ? 
  
Thanks

RICK 


Return to table of contents


Date: 18 Dec 1994 01:10:57 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: strain origins/BrewCap

Subject:  strain origins/BrewCap


Steve Robinson in North Andover, Mass. writes.....

>Finally, Dan McConnell posts the origins of the YeastLab strains.  Does this
>imply that the YeastLab A02 (Chico) is the same strain as Wyeast 1056; that
>Yeastlab A04 (Whitbread) is the same as Wyeast 1098; that YeastLab A05
>(Guiness) is the same as Wyeast 1084; or that YeastLab L34 (A/B) is the same
>as Wyeast 2007? 

Probably.  I assume that if the Wyeast strain ID's that you cite are 
accurate they were at one time the same strain, obtained from the 
same source somewhere in the distant past.  I wonder if there has 
been much genetic drift.  It would be interesting to run parallel 
fermentations with the pairs.  I'd bet that Zymurgy would bite on 
THAT as a research article.   

FWIW I use a BrewCap (the one and only, the original) whenever I 
want to simulate yeast performance in a unitank.  Works great!  I 
can't imagine how it can be improved, let alone for its fair price.

DanMcC
Ann Arbor, MI



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 09:54:49 -0700 (MST)
From: todd boyce <tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org>
Subject: Re:Funnel filter,carboy glug, FOOP

	Hi all,

	I just tryed the excellent racking cane, carboy speed dump,
tip-trick. Thanks works great.
	For anyone looking for the best funnel-filter system available,
(IMHO) try using, ready... womens hosery. Thats right. I prefer LEGGS(TM)
in the knee high configuration. (Support or Regular, your call) but take
whatever you can get and a pair of scissors will do nicely. I sanitize in
boiling water; else you may ferment a truly unique brew. Comes in handy at
all phase of the racking process (over the racking cane, over the top; or
rubberbanded to the bottom of the funnel etc.).
	Also, I have a lager in the secondary now. 5 days primary 13 days
secondary. My problem: There is a very dense, white kruesen that has never
really gone away. (looks delightful) anyway since all the foam retaining
proteins are going to be sheared and denatured in the secondary, I'm
worried my lager will be flat. So what can I do? Should I toss this batch
and try again? Could I add something?; I was thinking a secondary
addition of Spam, to get back some of those head forming protiens. How
would the spam protiens align; on the polar or non-polar of the CO2-water
interface? Dratz, that nasty FOOP!!!!



Todd
tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org

    



Return to table of contents


Date:          Sun, 18 Dec 1994 13:25:40 PST8PDT
From: "Peter Gothro" <PGOTHRO at marvin.ag.uidaho.edu>
Subject:       Re: Hops for a year 

Greetings Fellow Brewers!
    Alan Van Dyke asked about the amount of storage space required 
for hops by breweries, and whether whole hops were used by the 
biggies.  Well, I'd like to relate to you one of my most pleasant 
experiences lately.
    Back in August, the homebrew club in Yakima, WA (hop Heaven if 
there ever was one!) sponsored a get-together to show off the hop 
harvest to all comers.  The day-and-a-half show included, among other 
things, a visit to the warehouses of HopUnion, complete with a tour 
and free samples.  Our guide on the tour told us that they (HopUnion) 
lease warehouses (and warehouse space for smaller lots presumably) to 
the biggies for hop storage.  At the facility we were touring in 
Yakima, there are 7 cold-storage warehouses that could each hold 1.5 
MILLION (yep, that's 1,500,000) POUNDS of hops (usually in 200 lb. 
bales).  We were taken (without *any* resistance, of course) into one 
of the houses that AB had leased and allowed to walk around (as hard 
as I tried, I couldn't sneak the bale past our guide).  To say that 
the hop aroma was fabulous is understating the situation by an order 
of magnitude or two!
    Regarding who uses what (pellets vs. flowers), we were shown 
another cold room where both were stored (they'd already been 
purchased) for many of the micros.  When a brewer needed more, a call 
to HU would have more on their way.  Pretty cool, huh?  Pellets or 
flowers?  Well, HU does what the customer wants, and I think that HU 
monitors the quality of the hops over the storage period too.
    After my experience at HopUnion, I have a much better idea of 
what to expect in *my* Heaven!
    Hoppy Holidays to All!!
    Mr. Pete
    
    

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 18:13:03 -0600 (CST)
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Apologies

At the risk of wasting more bandwidth, I wish to apologize for inadvertently
forwarding John Palmer's delightful "Twas Awhile Before Christmas" back to
the Homebrew Digest where it appeared (again) in issue #1606.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 16:28:18 -0600 (CST)
From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: The missing HBD #1605 (it wasn't alone)

In HBD #1607, "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at roadnet.ups.com> writes:

>Sorry this is late, but I've been out of town and am just now catching up.  
>What happened to HBD 1605???

There wasn't one.  There were a few skipped (and a couple of duplicated)
issues in November, too.  Does anyone know what's going on?

ObBrewing:  So, how many people have had this happen....  You're all ready
to brew some cider (on a Sunday, when the local homebrew store is closed),
you've gotten everything finished, except for pitching the champagne yeast,
getting out the air-lock, and putting the stuff away for a few days, when
you realize that you forgot to buy any champagne yeast?  :-)

Later,
   --jim

- --
73 DE N5IAL (/4)         MiSTie #49997     < Running Linux 1.0.9 >
      jim at n5ial.mythical.com                 ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W
  ||  j.graham at ieee.org          Packet:  --OFFLINE-- (Ft. Walton Beach, FL)
E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs).


Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1608, 12/19/94