FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Yeast Combinations (WLK.Wbst311)
  ZYMURGY CRANBERRY BEER RECI ("BOB KNETL")
  DON'T READ THIS if you don't want your boss to hear you laughing (uswlsrap)
  I Have a yeast and don't know its name (Timothy Staiano)
  Body, Red Dog ("Harralson, Kirk")
  Volume problems in a Cooler Mashtun (djt2)
  Proteins, dextrins and body ("Allen L. Ford")
  Red Dog (Bob Bessette)
  Homebrew Digest #1607 (Decembe (m.bryson2)
  Air Pump Filter? ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
  Pitching Champagne Yeast / Iodophor / Starch Test (npyle)
  More on Sam Adams (Jim Busch)
  Amaretto/ Irish Cream Recipes ("KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814)
  Rogue Saint Red Recipe (MFOR8178)
  Mill Review, Gears (Jack Schmidling)
  Water Analysis Help ("KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814)
  Peated Malt (Steve Armbrust)
  Clogged funnels (TPuskar)
  Farmers' Ale (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 04:47:00 PST
From: WLK.Wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: Yeast Combinations

Greetings
Paul Baker writes:
>On a related note: a few months back on RCB someone posted a raving review
>of a barley wine they had made using ale yeast and then pitching champagne
yeast >after the first racking. That is another yeast combination which may be
>worth exploring. If anyone has any experience out there please speak up...
I have used the combination of Wyeast 1056 and Red Star Dry Champagne Yeast for
both Barley Wines and Dry, Hard Ciders with excellent results. I let the 1056
poop out, rack, and add a good, sweet starter of the Red Star, as I like to
give the secondary fermentation a good, strong start since the gravity at this
point can be quite low. The secondary fermentation can be quite long, maybe 2
weeks minimum. The longer, the drier, at least in my opinion.
Bill K.

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Date: 21 Dec 1994 07:59:14 U
From: "BOB KNETL" <bob_knetl at amber.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: ZYMURGY CRANBERRY BEER RECI

                       Subject:                       
       Time:7:28 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          ZYMURGY CRANBERRY BEER RECIPE  
       Date:12/21/94
IN THE "SPECIAL INGREDIENTS AND INDIGENOUS BEER"
EDITION THERE WAS A RECIPE FOR A "GIVING THANKS
CRANBERRY BEER" (P. 67).  THE RECIPE CALLS FOR BOILING
THE WHOLE 5 GALLONS VICE THE NORMAL 1 TO 1. 5 GALLONS
NORMALLY DONE IN AN EXTRACT RECIPE.  IS THERE A
COMPELLING REASON TO BOIL THE  WHOLE 5 GALLONS?  IF SO
WHAT IS IT.  
TIA & HAPPY HOLIDAYS
BOB KNETL  



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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 09:20:29 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: DON'T READ THIS if you don't want your boss to hear you laughing 

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL                     I1218157--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino               Research Analyst
Subject: DON'T READ THIS if you don't want your boss to hear you laughing

HOPPY HOLIDAYS TO Y'ALL

Like most clubs, we get newsletters. I don't know if this is copyrighted:-),but
I'm lifting it anyway from a newsletter from another region about a competition
in still another region. So here it is, excerpts from a top ten list (items
relating to particular clubs or non-public brewing personalities omitted). If
you've heard these before, direct flames, as usual, to bgates at microsoft.com.

TOP TEN REASONS WHY THE (deleted club) didn't win the (deleted competition)

9. Thought the wet t-shirt was supposed to go _inside_ the carboy.
8. No category for beers that suck.
6. The toilet bowl fermenter experiment was a miserable failure.
5. Judges constantly distracted by Fred Eckhardt mooning them.
4. Followed Charlie Papazian's advice to freely substitute black patent
   for pale malt.
3. The Brewing Stud was too busy "sparging the grist" (if you know what
   I mean)  (RAP's note: that wasn't in Andy Patrick's sparge definition)
1. We don't need no stinkin' (award) because we're the (club), damnit|

HOPPY HOLIDAYS AND A HOPPY BREW YEAR|

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 09:25:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Timothy Staiano <tstaiano at ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Subject: I Have a yeast and don't know its name

Greetings and salutations!

Well, the subject heading sounds wierd but it's true.  Now, I work at the 
Mtn. Valley Brew Pub in Suffern, NY; we just started getting a new yeast 
strain from Yeast Lab (according to brewer Jay Misson).  He told me that 
it's a new strain from England and gave me about 8-10oz to take home 
(watta guy!).

Now, to all of you biological/zymurlogical (?) graduate/postgraduate 
degree holders and all of those much more adept at brewing than I, any 
idea what it is?

Post private or public if you think it's important. TIA

Have a Hoppy!
Tim Staiano
tstaiano at ultrix.ramapo.edu
(insert catchy slogan/ascii drawing here)

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 09:52:20 EST
From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at roadnet.ups.com>
Subject: Body, Red Dog

In HBD 1609, Algis R Korzonas writes:

>>Body is what I'm after here.  Should I bother with higher mash 
>>temperatures?

>Higher mash temperatures will decrease fermentability and subsequently
>increase the body of a beer a little, but MOST of the body of a beer comes
>from proteins not dextrins.

I've wondered about this, but never had anything to back it up.  Does this mean 
that I'm wasting my time adding Cara Pils (<= 1 pound) to my mash to get more 
body?  When Papazian writes about using a "protein developing step mash", are 
these the proteins that add body, or are they used for some other reason?  I 
have made my last few batches using Fix's 40-60-70 mash schedule.  I think this 
has given me a significant improvement (over single step infusion) in the 
overall malt quality in my beers.  I have heard of people adding a vanilla bean 
in the boil to increase mouth feel and smoothness, but I have never tried it.

In HBD 1610, Bob Bessette writes:

>I had the rather unpleasant experience this past weekend of trying the new 
>Red Dog beer made by Anheuser Busch. Can anyone really tell me that there is 
>any discernible difference between Red Dog and AB's other no-taste beverage
>Budweiser? Also is there any discernible difference between Red Dog and Red 
>Wolf?

This stuff doesn't even deserve to be called swill.  I can't believe they are 
pricing this like a micro brew, but people around here are lining up to buy it. 
I think "red dog" is an interesting name for a beer, because it's football slang
for an all-out blitz.  Thats the term we used to use for people drinking as much
beer as they possibly could with the single purpose of getting incredibly drunk,
or blitzed. Coincidence???  I really don't think AB would do this intentionally,
but you know those marketing guys :)

Kirk Harralson
Bel Air, Maryland


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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 10:30:38 -0500
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu
Subject: Volume problems in a Cooler Mashtun

Ken B writes about too much volume for step mashes in his cooler;

I just switched from a 5 gallon Gott to a 14 gallon rectangular Coleman,
mostly because I moved to 10 gallon batches. I used to have trouble getting
the temperature up for mashout too, but really the extra volume and the
geometry of the rectangular tun allows better stirring of the thinner
grist. However, here are a couple of things to consider:

1) Why mashout? The only advantage I can see is improved consistency for
the big brewers. I doubt I've ever made two batches alike, so stopping the
enzymes on the clock seems of low importance. I used to do a 1 step (65C)
mash and it was just fine, though I use a protein rest now.

2) Use a "decoction" to get the temp up. At the end of the enzyme rest,
remove 2 quarts to a saucepan and boil it, then return it to the tun for
mashout.

Another note; I have been doing batch sparges after the suggestion (I
think) of Geo. Fix. That is, thin grist, recirculate briefly, then collect
the runnings quickly. Add sparge water to make a thin grist again, stir,
recirculate briefly and collect again at maximum flow. Repeat once more,
then sparge conventionally to the desired volume. The geometry of all (4
total) of the cooler manifolds I've seen still leaves pockets of poorly
sparged grain. It is so disheartening to spend hours collecting runnings
(terminating at 1.015) and then find you're dumping sweet grains into the
compost bin! The batch process (in a couple of tries) has been faster and
resulted in better yields for me than the slow conventional sparging. YMMV

Dennis



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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 09:43:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Allen L. Ford" <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>
Subject: Proteins, dextrins and body

In HBD 1609, Al Korzonas wrote:

>MOST of the body of a beer comes from proteins not dextrins.

Please quote your source(s) of this information.  I would like to read more
on this subject.

Thanks.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  Allen L. Ford  <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-= Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research  San Antonio, Texas =-=-=





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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 11:17:21 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at hawk.uicc.com>
Subject: Red Dog

HBDers,
 I want to correct a statement made in a recent HBD. I stated that Red Dog was 
made by Anheuser Busch. It is not. Red Wolf is made by AB. Red Dog is made by 
Plank Road Brewing which is Miller. I think the bottom line is that Red Dog is 
swill IMHO and in the opinion of everyone that emailed me. Red Wolf did not 
receive much higher reviews than Red Dog but I take it it does at least have 
some color to it. Just for the record, I did not buy the 6-pack of Red Dog. It 
was brought to my house by my brother-in-law who then, in turn, ended up 
drinking my home brew. Do you blame him?


Bob Bessette (all-grainer...)
bessette at uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087


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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 16:03:00 UTC
From: m.bryson2 at genie.geis.com
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1607 (Decembe

   I'd like someone to clear up something that I run across periodically in
the HBD. People mention that a clogged blowoff tube in your carboy could
lead to glass grenades( i.e., carboy explodes). Do people wire down their
bungs like champagne bottles? Wouldn't the building CO2 pressure either blow
out the bung or whatever's plugging the tube before the carboy went boom? I
realize that the thickness of the glass in a carboy may not give an
indication of just how sturdy the carboy is, but I'm having trouble
visualizing this problem. On the other hand, I have had a fermentation lock
bubble off a carboy before.
   This may be a trivial question, but it bugs me every time someone
mentions it.
   TIA,
     Duke Nukem

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 11:38:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Air Pump Filter?

Hey HBDers,

Season's Greetings! I recently acquired an aquarium pump for wort 
aeration and had a few questions regarding its use.  

1.  What type of filtering device is preferable?  I am considering a 
sterilized, in-line filter of either cotton, glass wool, or a commercially 
available 0.22 um material.  I want to keep out nasties without excessive 
wear on the pump---it's a major cheapo!

2.  What is the best approach for introducing oxygen with this type of 
system?  I thought that I would begin aeration as soon as I have chilled the 
wort, but I am unsure how long to continue the aeration process before 
pitching and how long it should continue after pitching.  I recall some 
discussion on this topic in recent HBDs, but I can't recall which ones and 
I don't have an easy way of searching old ones by topic.

Any help is greatly appreciated.  Have a great holiday season!

Bones
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Timothy P. Laatsch
laatsch at kbs.msu.edu
k'zoo, MI (aka Larryland)   

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
	Timothy P. Laatsch               
	Graduate Student in Microbial Ecology		    
	Michigan State University			    
	Kellogg Biological Station
	Kalamazoo, MI	
	laatsch at kbs.msu.edu

	Allow me to brew or give me death!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 10:12:15 MST
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Pitching Champagne Yeast / Iodophor / Starch Test

Paul Baker writes:

>On a related note: a few months back on RCB someone posted a raving review
>of a
>barley wine they had made using ale yeast and then pitching champagne yeast
>after
>the first racking. That is another yeast combination which may be worth
>exploring. If
>anyone has any experience out there please speak up...

Well, I did this last year, out of necessity, not design.  I had a barley
wine that wasn't finishing, so I finally broke down and pitched a
wine/champagne yeast (can't remember).  It helped it along to completion and
the bwine is doing fine.  BTW, I don't feel this is necessary if you pitch a
sufficiently large yeast population and aerate well - the ale yeast should do
fine.

On the subject of the bwine, it is over a year old now and it is remarkably
stable.  Overall, I have had very good luck with beer stability, but then I
don't often do the George Fix stability test (ship the beer UPS in an
uninsulated box to/from Texas in the middle of August - or something like
that!).  My beers do really well for months at a time in my basement and/or
refrigerator.  Maybe all that attention to HSA avoidance and sanitation does
have a positive effect!  The only drawback of course, is that if the beer is
bad to start, it tastes just as bad 6 months later!

**

Al K wrote:

>For Iodophor, the recomended
>concentration is one that provides 12.5 ppm of free iodine (see bottle
>label for the proper dilution).

I'm going to stick my long neck out here and say that this doesn't sound
right.  I believe that you are after 5 ppm of *free* iodine for sanitizing.
This 5 ppm of *free* iodine can be obtained if you have 12.5 ppm of
*titratable* iodine.  Does this sound better?  Maybe some of you chem pros
out there can verify.  Bottom line is, as Al says, follow the directions on
the bottle.

**

GRMarkel (who?) wrote:

> I have been using the iodine test for conversion with mixed results. When I
> mash with Klages grain, I usually can see a change (or lack of) in color
> about 70% of the time. But when I mash with Pale Malt, I have yet to get a
> positive test for conversion. Is there another method for testing for
>conversion,
> or do most of you work on blind faith (like me)???

The key to the iodine test is to collect only liquid.  The husks and chunks
of grain will test positive for starch.  I've had good luck testing only the
liquid portion of the mash.

Have a Beery Merry Christmas (and a Hoppy New Beer!),
Norm

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 13:22:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: More on Sam Adams

Steve Stroud helped to clarify the Sam Adams production locations
in a recent post.  I checked some of the bottles and it does
state that the Honey Porter and the Cream Stout are made in
Leiheigh Pa, and the Lagers were made in Pittsburgh, Pa.  I 
must have gotten the Stroh and Lion breweries mixed up when I
read of the location of the Honey porter last summer.

Steve, any idea/comments on why AS dropped the FX Matt brewery
from thier contracts?

Jim Busch 
Colesville, MD

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 12:58:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814 <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>" <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>
Subject: Amaretto/ Irish Cream Recipes

These are not beer recipes, however, it's the holiday's and 
they compliment any homebrew rather well.

Happy Holidays,
 Kevin
<KFONS at QGRAPH.COM>
_________________________________________________

Amaretto


2 Cups Sugar
2 Cups Water
2 Cups Vodka
2 Cups Brandy
1 Ounce Almond Extract


Combine sugar and water in a medium sauce pan,
bring to a boil.  Reduce heat and simmer uncovered
for 10 minutes, stirring occasionally.  Remove from heat.
Stir in liquor and extract.  Transfer to tightly covered bottles.
Makes 6 Cups


_________________________________________________

Irish Cream


1-3/4 Cups of your favorite liquor
          (Irish Whiskey, brandy,rum,burbon, scotch)
1 (14 oz.) Can Sweetened Condensed Milk (not evaporated)
1 Cup (1/2 pint) Whipping or Light Cream
4 eggs
2 tablespoons chocolate flavored syrup
2 teaspoons instant coffee
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/2 teaspoon almond extract


In a 6 cup blender, at low speed, combine all ingredients.  
Blend until smooth.  Store in a tightly covered container
in the refrigerator, up to one month. 
Shake or stir before serving.

_________________________________________________


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Date:         Wed, 21 Dec 94 14:26:56 EST
From: MFOR8178 at URIACC.URI.EDU
Subject:      Rogue Saint Red Recipe

I went to my Favorite watering hole last nite, and tried a new beer(for
me), Rogue SAint Red Ale. It was delicious. Very highly hop aromatic bouquet
So, Does anyone out there in cyBEERspace have any idea how to
recreate this palatable delight? If so, send me a recipie(private Email,thanks)
TIA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Michael Formica     See you all in               MFOR8178 at URIACC.URI.EDU
57 Diana Drive          CyBEERspace              (401) 789-5833
Kingston, RI                                     Programming Asst.
02881                                            HomeBrew Extrodinare
                                                 Photorgasmergrapher
"I still shroom every now and then just to clean the pipes out"-J. Garcia
 "Spread Seeds of Truth, Person by Person, Acre by Acre"- Ellis
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 14:11 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Mill Review, Gears

 
 >From: "Dan Listermann, Cinci " <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
 
 >I was a little perplexed to read Jack Schmidling's posting on HBD 1607.   I 
 was given a copy of the unedited text of the artical to review this past 
 summer. 
 
 > I had believed that Jack recieved the same copy.  The copy seemed to be 
 very "raw" as there were many grammatical errors and a redundant sentence.  I 
 even doubt that the editors had a chance to look at it closly.
 
 What you (and I and no doubt, Glatt) received officially from Zymurgy was the 
 galley proof which resulted from weeks of bitching and numerous letters and 
 harsh words about the original report submitted to Zymurgy by the club that 
 conducted the "evaluation".  After giving up on the normal channels, I wrote 
 a personal letter to C.P, demanding to see the article before it was 
 published or else!  Although I never heard from C.P., I received my copy of 
 the proof you describe within a week.  Contrary to your feeling, it was 
 severly edited but still far short of being objective.
 
 >Reading Jack's recent posting causes me to question a number of things.
 
 >If Jack would be so kind as to fax me ( 513-351-0610) a copy of the text he
 quotes, it could go a long way toward explaining his deep feelings of
 frustration with the Zymurgy artical.
 
 Unfortunately, sending you the report could compromise the source who was 
 kind enough to make sure I knew what was going on there.  You will just have 
 to take my word for it or try to get a copy from someone in the club.  All I 
 can add is how nice it is to have friends in the right places.
 
 >From: Hauptbrau at aol.com
 >Subject: Malt Mill / Gear drive upgrade
 
 >Has anyone had any problems upgrading their "o" ring driven malt mill to a
 gear driven malt mill?  I have... In the upgrade, I recieved only two gears 
 with no instructions on how to install the gears. 
 
 You certainly did not get them from me or you would have received 
 instructions on how to do it.
 
 > The only way to install the gears was to cut off the shaft and bore
 the roller to fit a new longer shaft.
 
 You also would have been told that you need to exchange your roller for a 
 gear compatible one. 
 
 >  The new gear was placed on the new shaft on one side and the other gear 
 was placed on the other roller where the hand crank is attached.  What really 
 upset me was that a normal person could not upgrade their "o" ring malt mill 
 without some exstensive machine work.  I think this should be stressed to the 
 homebrewers when buying an "o" ring drive malt mill.  By the way, the gear 
 driven malt mill works much better.
 
 The Gear Drive Option (GDO) requires an extended shaft on the "passive" 
 roller.  All adjustable mills have been shipped with extended shafts for 
 oveer  two years and adding gears in the field is a trivial job.  The flyer 
 that describes the MM clearly states that the GDO is only available on the 
 adjustable mill as a standard option.  On older mills or on fixed mills, we 
 have to do a roller exchange to add the gears.  My heart bleeds for all the 
 trouble you went through and I think your dealer should be taken over your 
 knee.  They have all the info needed but if they don't read it, you are stuck 
 holding the bag.
 
 js

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 15:12:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814 <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>" <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>
Subject: Water Analysis Help

Can anyone create a WATER.FAQ, it would be very useful.

This is the information I have so far, for Milwaukee, WI:

Hardness	143ppm
Ph		7.5ppm
Chlorine	1.2ppm
Calcium	96ppm
Floride		1.1ppm
Chlorides	16ppm
Sodium	7ppm

Does anyone have complete information and relevant 
  analysis for Milwaukee?
Which additional measurements should I request?
What do the measurements mean to my brewing?
What adjustments should I make, how and when?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
   Kevin Fons
<KFONS at QGRAPH.COM>

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 13:35:01 PST
From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: Peated Malt


Text item: Text_1

A while back, there was some traffic concerning the Scottish peated malt 
that many homebrew shops now carry.  People warned that it didn't impart 
the same flavor as smoking the grains yourself, and that a little goes a 
long way.  I complained that even 1/4 pound in a five gallon batch of pale 
ale caused an overly-strong and unpleasant flavor.
     
However, after about three months in the bottle, that same ale has mellowed 
out quite nicely.  So, if you've experimented with the peated malt and were 
disappointed, be patient and set it aside for a while.  It will definitely 
get better.
     
Steve Armbrust in Portland, Oregon
Steve_Armbrust at ccm.hf.intel.com  

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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:10:43 -0500
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: Clogged funnels

I also cursed the clogged screen on my 10 inch funnel until I figured a way
to prevent it.  I drape a nylon straining bag  (notice I didn't say sparging
bag ) :-) over the top of the funnel.  When flow through the screen slows
down, I just swoosh (another technical term) the bag a bit and flow picks up.
   Using this method, I leave most of the gooey trub in my brew pot which
makes it easy to toss out.  I reuse the nylon bag and toss it into my
sanitizing solution with the other stuff.  Works for me!

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Date: 21 Dec 94 15:16:00 GMT
From: mlm01 at intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Subject: Farmers' Ale

I have seen talk about Farmer's beer but couldn't remember if it was
on HBD or CBS or judgenet, so I'll post to all 3. The recipe below
comes from a book titled "Homemade Beverages by a Practical Brewer".
The book was copyrighted 1919 by Western Distributers in Calgary,
Alberta  Canada.


Farmers' Ale
- ------------

Mash potatoes with 1/10 of its weight of ground barley malt. This mixed 
with some water and exposed in a water bath to a heat of 160 F, thence 
boiled with hops, cooled and fermented into beer.


Mike Montgomery
mlm01 at intgp1.att.com


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1611, 12/22/94