FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  10 gallon gott. (djfitzg)
  suggestions on getting started (William Moulis)
  Re: FAQ and better beer (Btalk)
  Rehi and a cry for help (sort of) (Collin A Ames)
  Anchor Liberty yeast, sanitizers (mlittle)
  Flat beer (SAMEKT)
  Low S.G. -- need remedy! (eric addkison pendergrass)
  Re: Grape Nuts Beer (W. Mark Witherspoon)
  RE:slow sparge, high gravity bitters (Jim Busch)
  Small Batch Brewing (TPuskar)
  Re: Propane Cookers (Mdsj)
  HSA during steam injection (Kelly Jones)
  Question on specific gravit ("Rick Spada")



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 07:20:56 EST
From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: 10 gallon gott.

Happy Holidays,
               Santa was very nice to me, and left a 10 gallon gott under
the tree this year. Now i have decided after reviewing numerous posts to
construct a copper manifold at the bottom of the cooler.
my questions is a simple one, since the outlet is apporx. 1 inch above the
bottom of the tun, instead of bending the manifold so that it lays flush
to the bottom, can i simply use 3/4 inch flexible tubing to connect to
the copper pipe. will the 170 degree temps affect the tubing and subsequent
finished taste of the beer?
I've seen a few products use flexible hose for sparge temps. but ive always
stayed away from running hot wort through rubber hoses.
am i just paranoid?
And where are you guys finding "food grade sealant", i havn't seen tube 1 !!

Thanks,
Dan Fitzgerald djfitzg at vnet.ibm.com

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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 07:22:43 +0100
From: wjmoulis at facstaff.wisc.edu (William Moulis)
Subject: suggestions on getting started

Hello all,

I am what you would call a novice's novice. I would like to brew my own
beer but have no idea of how to get started. In the area that I live I am
unaware of any homebrew supply stores, the Public Library is limited on the
information that they have. From what I have been reading in the past
several issues of the Digest, there are many different ways to brew beer.
If anyone would be willing to share their knowelege of the hows, whys, and
wherefores of brewing I would much appreciate it. 

Thank you in advance.
Bill Moulis
wjmoulis at facstaff.wisc.edu


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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 08:35:10 -0500
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: Re: FAQ and better beer 

Hey Lee,
You didn't menition Coriander in your FAQ.

Are we suffering a little holiday burnout??  ;->

Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>

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Date: 27 Dec 94 08:10:57 CST
From: Collin A Ames <C-AMES at vm1.spcs.umn.edu>
Subject: Rehi and a cry for help (sort of)

Well met, and all of that!

It's been...well...probably over a year since I posted last.  My
brewing sort of fell off due to fincancial woes and laziness, so
I kind of stopped reading the list...you know how it goes.

But, I finally got around to brewing a couple of batches recently.
I tend to brew high malt content batches, usually around 8 lbs or
so plus grains for color and flavor.  The first batch ended up
getting stuck at about 1.024, so I ended up using enzymes for the
first time.  Interesting effect and darned effective to boot.  I
bottled that one at about 1.006.

The second batch is the one I need some advice on.  It started at 1.050
or so and is down to 1.018, but has not stopped fermenting.  I suspect
it is a combination of using a liquid yeast (English Ale) and the fact
that we now have a programmable thermostat in the house (temperature
fluctuating daily between 66 and 70 degrees F).  I believe I need to bottle,
or at least move to a secondary fermenter, as it has been in the primary
nearly 3 weeks now (bad, bad, I know).  So, the questions:

1)  Should I rack to a secondary fermenter (which would be plastic also,
    since I have not yet invested in a glass carboy) and let it continue
    at it's slow fermentation rate or;

2)  Should I bottle now?  If I do bottle now, should I use less sugar or
    nor sugar based on the assumption that if the yeast is still producing
    gasses, then there is still enough sugar in the wort to carbonate?

Any and all advice is certainly appreciated.

Thanks.

Collin Ames
c-ames at vm1.spcs.umn.edu

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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 09:34:00 EST
From: mlittle at cclink.draper.com
Subject: Anchor Liberty yeast, sanitizers


<<<<<< Attached TEXT item follows >>>>>>
Text item: Text_1
     Hi Folk,
     
     Anybody know what yeast Anchor uses for its Liberty Ale?
     
     Is there a sanitizer that can remain in contact with copper, brass, 
     stainless steel, and rubber washers for extended periods (2-8 weeks) 
     without adversely affecting the materials?
     
     Thanks
     
     Mark



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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 10:28:43 -0500 (EST)
From: SAMEKT at VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU
Subject: Flat beer


I am new to home brewing.  My first brew was an East India Pale ale that 
really tasted great. For my second brew I tried a Holiday Ale - flavored
with nutmeg, cinnamon, cloves and honey.  It has been in the bottle for
two weeks and I tried one last night .... it tasted OK but there was only
a small amount of carbonation.  Will it carbonate more as it sits in the 
bottle ?  I did keep it at room temperature (65 degrees) for a week before
putting it in the basement (where it is a pretty steady 40 degrees).

Any ideas ?

Kathy Same
Munnsville, NY
(samekt at vax.cs.hscsyr.edu)

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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:05:19 -0500 (EST)
From: eric addkison pendergrass <pendeea3 at wfu.edu>
Subject: Low S.G. -- need remedy!

Hi,

I just brewed a batch of English nut brown ale, and followed the recipe 
exactly.  However, when i checked the SG after adding water up to 5 gal, 
it as only 1.030 compared to the 1.040-1.045 which it should have been.  

My question is, how can I increase the SG?  I don't have access to a brew 
store, and don't have time to mailorder extra malt.  Could I place some 
permeable cover over my fermentor and try to evaporate it down to the correct 
SG (this would probably just result in a loss of alcohol, IMO)?  

What can I do?

_______________________________________________________________
pendeea3 at wfu.edu             * erpendergras at pollux.davidson.edu
http://www.wfu.edu/~pendeea3 * pendgrss at whale.st.usm.edu [4.1] 
__________Watts Brewery________________________________________
 


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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:10:21 -0500
From: mwithers at hannibal.atl.ge.com (W. Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Re: Grape Nuts Beer

This is what I was told by the Gulf War Vets on how to
obtain/make beer when it is illegal...

	Order about 3 tons of grape nuts.  Soak in warm
water for about an hour or so. Strain out the resulting
mash.  Add a few drops of a bittering substance, usually
blue curacco liquor to the boil.  Cool Ferment with
yeast, what ever kind of yeast you can get, usually wine 
yeast.  
	Produces about 3 tons of beer. Strangely tasting
but decent.

	The Saudi's thought that the Americans were really
weird for ordering 3 tons of grape nuts, but those in the
field knew what they were doing...


Mark Witherspoon


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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:38:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE:slow sparge, high gravity bitters

Jeff writes:

<The sparge water streams out and I mix as appropiate.  The
<sparging process is SLOW!  It takes about 1 hour to sparge.  Does anyone have
<a better way to sparge without using high temperature pumps?

Lautering takes about an hour, there's not much you can do about
it. If you go faster, you will loose extract efficiency.  Actually,
one hour is very good.  Usually 15 mins are required to clear the
runoff, and a 45 min sparge is cruisin'.

Micah writes (about high gravity brewing):

<It also requires a great deal of care
<and control to have good reasults. There are also compromises along the
<line as well. This is a practice that homebrewers could use but I
<would not bother. I would hope that hbers would use high gravity worts
<to make barleywines and such and not try to copy icelightdraft.

OK, we dont want to advocate post ferment dilution of icelightdraft
beers, but how about making a English bitter or mild using a cast out
wort of 17-18 Plato and diluting to 9-11 Plato?  Wouldnt this result in
a more complex, caramelly final beer than one brewed to the cast out
OG of 9-11P?

Tom asks:

<Now my question.  What's the collective netwisdom on propane cookers!!!
<Things like Cajun cooker or King Cooker as examples.  All of the lables say
<they must be used outdoors and with adequate ventilation.Has anyone used the
<m in basement (with windows open or fans going) or in a garage (with door
<open) and lived to tell about it?

Sure, the garage cajun cooker works fine.  Also consider the Superb in
Ill, they are 32,000 BTU heavy cookers.  Will boil up to 20 gals of
wort.

Jim Busch
Colesville, Md

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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 12:29:02 -0500
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: Small Batch Brewing

Thanks to everyone who provided input on small (1-3 gallon) batch brewing.
 The following is a summary of the comments received from Email and survey of
several local brew supply shops..

Generally everyone felt that simply scaling down the amount of components on
a direct basis would work fine.  If a 5 gallon recipe called for 5 lbs of
malt extract, use 1 lb for a one gallon batch.  There are some exceptions
worthy of note.  For example, everyone felt that the normal amount of yeast
should be pitched into a small batch.  Since I use liquids for most of my 5
gallon batches, that could get expensive.  I plan to use dry yeasts for any
small batches.

Another comment pertained to hops.  Since small batches would probably be
boiled as a full batch with little or no water needed to bring to final vlume
(except to account for evaporation), hop utilization would probably be higher
than for a 5 gallon batch which is generally boiled at higher concentrations.
 Several people mentioned that scaling up a small batch might not provide the
same hoppy character .

Since liwuid malt extracts are generally packaged in quantities for 5
gallons, most smaller batches would be easier to brew using DME.  Other
comments about accuractely measuring small quantities of materials (hops,
extract, grains etc) were mentioned by several people.  Again the comments
pertained primarily to scaling up a batch once done at small scale.

Temperature control was mentioned as a possible problem.  Small volumes will
be much more susceptible to environmental changes than a full carboy.  On the
flip side, it would be easier to keep a 1 gallon wine jug in a water bath to
maintain temp control.

Bottom line seems to be that scaling down to 1 gallon or so should provide a
decent indication of what a full batch would taste like.

Since Santa brought me a Corona mill for Christmas, I'll be on my way to my
local brew supply to pick up a few pounds of a variety of grains.  I can just
see my basement lined up with Gallo jugs of some unusual brews.

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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 12:06:42 -0600
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

Subject: Fermenter Geometry; NCYC 1187

The latest issue of Brauwelt (Vol.12, No.4, 1994) has an excellent
article on fermenter geometry by Dr. Unterstein of Weihenstephan.
His main conclusions are as follows:

        (i) The wort height to fermenter diameter is a crucial parameter
            which affects all aspects of the fermentation independent
            of volume. ( Note: The author derives a clever effective h:d
            for uni-tanks having a conical bottom.) 

        (ii) The ideal situation is when this ratio is 1:1 or less. In no 
             case should it exceed 2:1.

        (iii) Wheat beers are particularly sensitive to the h:d ratio,
              and for these beers it should not exceed 1:1.

The first two items are completely compatible with results we found in
test brews done a few years ago, and which Al communicated to HBD. We
recently redid these tests using the Botham uni-tank (see HBD#1612), as
well as redoing tests using a Cornelius keg. The former has an effective
h:d ratio of 1.2:1, while the wort level in the latter was adjusted to get
4:1. The brews using the Botham tank were almost identical to what we got
using squat 1/4 bbl. pony kegs. The main defect with brews fermented
in the Cornelius kegs was their inconsistency. Some came out ok, but others
not. The severity of the effects varied with yeast strain, but overall
conclusion reached is that for best results the criteria (i) and (ii)
should be satisfied no matter what yeast is used. (The details on these
tests will be contained in my new book, which BTW has a new coauthor,
namely Laurie Fix, who insisted on a new title, namely A Study of Brewing
Techniques. It is scheduled for publication in June,1995.)

The last item in Unterstein's article about wheat beers comes as a
complete surprise. I conjecture this is a yeast strain issue, but I
would be interested in hearing from anyone who has direct practical
experience with this issue.

I hope everyone interested in the geometry issue caught Cushing Hamlen's
excellent post in HBD on Berard convection. Knudsen has pictures of these flow
fields in various uni-tanks in his classic article "Tank Hydraulics", which 
appeared in MBAA Tech. Qr., Vol.15, No.3, pp.132-139. 

*******************

Dan McConnell writes about NCYC 1187 in HBD# 1612, and asks for more info.
This strain is finding definite commercial acceptance. For example,
both Hub Cap/Dallas and Hub Cap/ Vail are using it, and both won awards
in the 1994 GABF. Dan's comments on its excellent mechanical behavior are
spot on. I, on the other hand, do not personally find it to be a neutral
strain in the sense of say Wy 1056 (BRY-96). It leaves a slight woody
undertone which recalls the London ale strain, although it is different
from the latter as Dan's comments indicate. IMHO it makes an excellent
"wheat ale", rescuing these brewpub staples from their customary blandness.
Opinions will differ on how well this strain does with other ale styles.


George Fix


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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 13:15:03 -0500
From: Mdsj at aol.com
Subject: Re: Propane Cookers

Here in sunny Southern California, I use my cooker out on the patio for my
midnite brews.  I have also used it under the garage door (it rains once in a
while), no ventilation but it's pretty windy here.  I agree, it sure saves
the marriage.  I never have understood why everybody doesn't just love
boiling WORT.  I roll my windows down every morning when I go by the A-B
plant in Van Nuys, just to see whats cookin'.  There still is the problem of
wort chilling (do you use the kitchen sink method?  A garage sink or a
counterflow chiller would be better) and cleen-up (the bottom of the pot gets
black with soot.  Again a garage sink would be in-valuable).  As for how long
it lasts?  I have heard six brews, but I keep a second full 20# container as
a spare (get one at Home Depot).  I use a 20 qt pot on mine and it's very
stable, but you have to get the flame just right.  A bigger pot would be
better, and would make more beer ;^).

Michael St.John (mdsj at aol.com)

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Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 11:21:20 -0700
From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones)
Subject: HSA during steam injection

In HBD #1612, Terry Terfinko writes:

>I have tried steam infusing through the valve under the mash
>screen.  This did raise the temp.  To move from 150F to 170F it took 25
>minutes and requires stirring to avoid hot spots.  I was concerned about
>HSA with this method.  It seams like allot of bubbling is going on as the
>steam moves through the mash.

True, a lot of bubbling does occur -  but you are bubbling steam, not air.
HSA (hot side aeration) is caused by _air_ (or, more specifically, oxygen),
not steam.  You have no reason to worry about HSA during steam injection.

Kelly



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Date: 27 Dec 1994 14:50:19 -0500
From: "Rick Spada" <rick_spada at mathworks.com>
Subject: Question on specific gravit

                       Subject:                               Time:1:54 PM
  OFFICE MEMO          Question on specific gravity           Date:12/27/94
I recently brewed a bitter that had an original gravity of 1.040.  After two
weeks, fermentation had pretty much come to an end and I decided to bottle. 
I racked the beer into my bottling bucket, and took a gravity reading.  It
was 1.030 which I took to mean that it hadn't finished fermenting.  So, back
into the carboy it went, I pitched some more yeast, and put it in a warmer
spot in my cellar with the thought that perhaps the beer was too cold for the
yeast.  Well, fermentation picked up a bit, and now a week and a half later,
it appears that fermentation has finished.  When I checked the gravity a few
days ago, it was 1026.

A few other items to add...  I added the priming sugar between taking a
sample for the gravity.  I also filled and capped two bottles.  I tested one
last night and other than being fairly cloudy, it tasted fine, not sweet as I
would have expected for an incomplete fermentation, nor was it overly
carbonated.  I used Wyeast's British Ale yeast.

What I'm wondering is wheter there are other factors that would affect the
specific gravity other than sugar?  Does it sound like this beer is ok to
bottle or should I let it sit a while longer with hopes that it will ferment
a bit more?

Thanks in advance for any help, and thanks for the HBD, it is a most valuable
resource.

- -- Rick

__ Rick Spada _______________________ ricks at mathworks.com __
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     24 Prime Park Way           http://www.mathworks.com
     Natick, MA 01760-1500              ftp.mathworks.com
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1616, 12/28/94