FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Style Guidelines - Whats in them?!?!!? ("Robert W. Mech")
  Yeast Sediment and Clearing (Tom Wadsworth)
  Lee Bussy Reply (M.Marshburn/D202)
  Kitchen brewing vs. Basement/garage brewing (How come the future takes such a long time to come when you're waiting for a miracle  29-Dec-1994 1013 -0500)
  Brewing Fridge (MR PETER E MISIASZEK)
  repitching and cold trub (Jim Busch)
  Virgin (S=Bills)
  Grain Mill (MatthewX G Stickler)
  Re|  First Time (Robert.Fike)
  Low SG Remedy -- Honey (eric addkison pendergrass)
  Jail Brew / Sweet Trippel (Rich Larsen)
  Bells yeast / Steam jacket kettl (TomF775202)
  BREWS ("Lee Bussy")
  Jail house brew (CLAY)
  FAQ for begginer (Will Paynter)
  A warning. (Erik Speckman)
  First batch (Philip Gravel)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 05:59:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net>
Subject: Style Guidelines - Whats in them?!?!!?

For quite a while now, ive been searching for Style Guidlines that 
INCLUDE what should go into a particular style.  Does such a thing 
exist?  I know spencers beer page carries the AHA 1994 Style guidelines, 
but that gives me NO CLUE as to what should go into each style.  I hear 
from alot of people that part of the BJCP is that you must formulate a 
recipie acording to a style.  Yet Ive been unable to find anything that 
would give you the style, and the appropriate things that go into one.  
Im sure these people dont just "Guess".  If its in non-electronic form 
somewhere, could somone clue me in as to what/where to get it.  

TIA

Rob - All grain brewer who has no clue what to put into his beer! :-)

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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 09:17:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Wadsworth <twadswor at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Yeast Sediment and Clearing


I'm a beginner and just racked and bottled my second batch last evening.  
It's an Imperial Stout that started at 1.095 and finished at 1.025 after 
fermenting for 9 days at 65 deg in the primary carboy (5 gal, glass).

The question I have concerns clarity.  Although I was very careful when 
siphoning, the bottled beer is not immediately as clear as was my first 
batch (a medium ale) at the same stage.

I was thinking that it might be wise to rack into a second carboy after 
fermentation winds down and then wait 4 or 5 days to rack and bottle.

Any thought on this?  Decanting is no problem from the bottle, however 
I'd prefer to have a minimum amt. of yeast sediment.

Regards.

Tom W.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  Thomas Wadsworth                      |   Phone:  (802) 656-2861/3560     +
+  Dept of Pathology & Lab. Medicine     |   FAX:    (802) 656-3509          +
+  Medical Center Hospital of Vermont    |   e-mail: twadswor at moose.uvm.edu  + 
+  Burlington, Vermont  05401            |                                   + 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Date:     29 Dec 94  8:25:13 EST
From: M.Marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil
Subject: Lee Bussy Reply


     I brewed a partial mash red bock. It's fermenting happily away in my
garage. This is my first brew using one of the high AA hops, Eroica 1oz, as
boiling hops. I added increments and finish of homegrown tettnang 2oz total.
Regrew a thick slurry of bavarian pils yeast from a real good red lager I
made in Sept. My hydrometer slipped and busted on the garage floor, so no
readings. I'll let it ferment till the 31st, rack to secondary and place in
the fridge for 6 weeks. By then maybe I'll have replaced the hyro and start
taking readings. 
The recipe
5lb american 2 row
1lb 10l crystal
1lb carapils
2 3.3lb bags NW gold LME
1oz eroica boil
1/2oz tettnang boil
1/2oz tettnang +20
1/2oz tettnang +40
1/2oz tettnang steep 10mins
bavarian pils yeast slurry, temp in garage 40-50F

3 step mash, added LME to hot sweet wort, brought to boil, added boiling
hops. Wort tasted great before pitching, was pale red in color. I'm expecting
great things from this brew. The hop schedule may not be to style, but it was
all I had. Any comments???
M.Marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil


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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 10:23:54 EST
From: How come the future takes such a long time to come when you're waiting for a miracle 29-Dec-1994 1013 -0500 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Kitchen brewing vs. Basement/garage brewing

I have not brewed in the kitchen for at least a year now and I love it!
Everytime i brewed in the kitchen, it would take me at least an hour
to clean up the mess on the stove, floor, counters, etc.  it was just a
hassle compared to outside brewing.

i then moved to all grain, 15.5 gallon boiler, propane stove and brewed
on an old porch hanging off the back of my apartment.  the screens were long
gone and no one ever hung out there, so, it was ideal.  i'd brew and didn't
have to worry about boil-overs.  i could clean everything right there
using a hose plugged into an outside fawcet.  chilling was easy - just
hook the hose up and let'er rip, the output of the chiller just running off
on the grass.  when the brew day was complete, it do a final wash-down of
the entire area... sprayed the heck outta it and didn't have to worry about
wrecking anything.  it was an _excellent_ brewing spot.

since then, i've moved into my first house.  i have a walkout basement that
leads into a 2-car garage.  i brew at the foot of the garage with the
garage door all the way open to provide for plenty of oxegen.  i ran a hose
down from the back of the house into the garage and pretty much brewed the
same way as above.  however, with the colder weather, the outside fawcet
off until April or so.  brewing is much more difficult because now i have
to run a hose from my kitchen sink (using an adapter) all the way downstairs
into the basement/garage.  what i plan on doing is putting in a laundry
tub sink, hot and cold H20.  once i get this in, brewing will be easy once
again.

bottom line is brewing outside where you can spill and have boil-overs
without worrying about screwing up your stove/floor/counters is the
way to go. 

jc

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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 10:29:07 EST
From: WNXP21A at prodigy.com (MR PETER E MISIASZEK)
Subject: Brewing Fridge

I'd like to get a refrigerator to use for lagering and conditioning.  I'd
like to do it "right" the first time, and am soliciting advice on what I
should be looking for, ie, refrigerator or freezer, freezer above or below,
best controller, etc.  Private email is fine, I'll happily summarize the
results for others similarly afflicted.

Pete Misiaszek, brewing BayBeer in Newport RI.


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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 10:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: repitching and cold trub

Fellow rocket scientist Mike (mike.snyder at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV) asks:

<OK, the question is if you first use the ale yeast, then pitch the 
<champagin yeast, do you aerate the brew once again, or simply pitch the 
<champagin yeast and wait?  I thought when pitching the yeast (any kind) the 
<more O2, the better fermentation.  If you aerate the brew well after the 
<ale yeast has been completed, will that not cause off flavors (I believe 
<wet cardboard-like taste) to the finished beer.

Any aeriation of beer containing alcohol is very bad, it will oxidize
the alcohol into aldehydes which are quite unpleasent.  What you need
to do is get a real healthy starter of yeast going, and as it is pitched
up, be sure to pitch it into highly oxygenated wort starter.  You can
pitch the starter as is and hope, or you can oxygenate sanitized wort
and add the aeriated wort and the starter at the same time.  The O2
present in the aeriated wort should be assimilated rapidly by the
yeast starter and hopefully will avoid oxidized alcohols.  But this is
a corrective technique of a problem ferment, the best way to brew a 
BW is to repitch a clean yeast slurry from a previous batch of regular
strength beer (~12.5P, or 1.050 OG), and of course aeriate the heck out
of it.

<Final Question (non-related):  Awhile back there was a discussion of how to 
<make non-alcoholoc brew brew.  I was wondering if this would be a viable 
<option:  Cook up the wort as you would normally for your favorite batch, 
<then simply cool and force carbonate with CO2/kegging system.  I believe 
<earlier issues discussed this as a beverage called Malta?  Anyway, would 
<this not taste like the normally fermented beer?  Or does the yeast 
<introduce more complexity/completeness?  My guess it that it may, but I 
<figured while I'm typing this up I might as well ask?

Well, taste the cast out wort in your nest batch, then taste the beer
after the ferment, it will be radically different.  Not only does alcohol
have an immense effect on flavor perceptions, the other yeast metabolic
byproducts have huge consequences on the flavors.  Common byproducts
include diacetyl, fusel alcohols, and esters.  

Richard Buckberg <buck at well.sf.ca.us> asks:

<I was interested to read in Miller's book that he often waits hours after
<the wort cools before he pitches his yeast, to allow trub to settle.  He
<also then seems to suggest racking to secondary within 12-24 hours after
<that, then allowing the beer to fully ferment.
<
<This is counter to what I understand most homebrewers do.  That is, most of
<us pitch as soon as the wort is cool, and rack to secondary in several days,
<after the krausen lowers.

Miller is providing comments relating to production of very clean crisp
stable lagers.  What he is advocating is cold trub removal, a process
seldom practiced my homebrewers, much less professional brewers in the 
US or Britain. Hot trub removal is accepted as mandatory, cold trub removal
is highly debated.  Brewing Techniques did a two part series on hot and 
cold trub last year, check it out.  I brew lots of ales and practice no 
cold trub removal other than what is scrubbed to top of my fermenter and
skimmed off.  I also do not use a secondary as a norm, merely rack straight
into kegs with the stem cut off 1/2" short.  Works great.  It is of uttmost
importance to adequately chill your wort in as rapid a timeframe as possible.
My winter beers chill better with the cold tap water, I get rapid drops
from 200F+ to 59F and my beers are clearer than those brewed in the summer
when my chiller only delivers 70F wort.  By chilling the wort quickly, you
will produce more cold break which can be settled, and/or allowed to 
be scrubbed off in the ferment.  A wort chiller is a necessity for any
serious brewer, it will vastly improve ones beers. 

I have a new email address, see below.  I would prefer to receive mail 
at this address, but the eosdev2 bounces to this one too.  The old one
will be around for awhile.
- -- 
Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"

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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 11:42:53 EST
From: S=Bills%PL-PS%NAP at vines.nap.usace.army.mil
Subject: Virgin

Forwarded to:      smtp[homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com]
          cc:      
Comments by:       S Bills at PL-PS at NAP

   -------------------------- [Original Message] -------------------------      

I am a new subsriber to the service and so far, enjoy it emensely. I am ready 
to purchase a Brewing kit and am requesting suggestions for what to look and 
lookout for. I enjoy Stouts and Pales Ales primarily, and also would 
appreciate suggestions on hops, malts etc..

					Much Appreciated, 
					Scott Bills
internet: s=bills%pl-ps%nap at vines.nap.usace.army.mil


P.S.
Billy Yeager (Phila PA) Get in touch ASAP.


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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 10:05:02 PST
From: MatthewX G Stickler <MatthewX_G_Stickler at ccm2.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Grain Mill


Text item: Text_1

I have a KitchenAid Grain Mill. It is of type Corona rather than roller and can 
be adjusted. The crush is certainly as good as a corona but I've always heard 
roller mills are what the profesional use. It will crush as fast as you feel 
like turning the mixer up to. If I have any complaints they are that the hopper 
could be larger and its pricy (about $140.00). One thing I really like about it 
is it can be easily adjusted on the fly.

matthews at udp.com

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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 94 13:47:48 EST
From: Robert.Fike at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Subject: Re|  First Time


          Jeffrey Collins asked about:

          1. Cooling Wort.  If you don't want to use a wort chiller,
          you can try cooling your wort by placing your cooking pot in
          a sink full of cold water.  Or adding very cold water to the
          wort in the primary fermenter.  I would be concerned about a
          6-7 hour cooling time also.

          2. Fast Fermentation.  Don't believe everything you read
          (including here!) that is printed on the can.  I've had some
          that fermented even faster that yours.

          3. Hydrometer.  Get one!   They really help out alot.  With
          one, you will know when it is time to bottle.  And you won't
          have to worry about 12 oz glass grenades cooking off around
          the house.

          Enjoy!!!

          Robert.fike at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov

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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 14:20:56 -0500 (EST)
From: eric addkison pendergrass <pendeea3 at wfu.edu>
Subject: Low SG Remedy -- Honey

Gary wrote in the last HBD about adding honey to my rather weak batch of 
Nut Brown Ale.  This sounds like a good idea to me, however, does anyone 
know if it will have any better effect than adding the same amount of 
sugar (i.e, merely boosting alcohol w/o adding body)?

How much honey should I add?  Should I make sure it is 
preservative-free?  Are there any special preparations?

_______________________________________________________________
pendeea3 at wfu.edu             * erpendergras at pollux.davidson.edu
http://www.wfu.edu/~pendeea3 * pendgrss at whale.st.usm.edu [4.1] 
__________Watts Brewery________________________________________

P.S., thanks a bunch to everyone who replied to me -- you were a great help! 


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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 14:59:27 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: Jail Brew / Sweet Trippel

Someone posted a "recipe" for jail house brew in HBD1617.  As I work for 
Cook County Department of Corrections, I can attest to some of the weird 
things inmates do to get thier hootch.

I've seen some pretty scary stuff around here... purple and pink very 
cloudy, junk floating in it... I've never been brave enough to try it 
though..

With the things that get sold in the commissary to the inmates, one could 
make something fairly palletable...  They can get Honey, Sugar, jelly, 
jams, juices, soda (they use the bottles).  All they need is a decent 
yeast.  The bread does start a fermentation, but it is bread yeast after all...

Hmm... maybe there's a black market here to be had for decent yeast... 
;-) nahhh...

One could make a nice fruit mead...

- ------------

Now I need a suggestion... Had a small failure the other brew-day.  
Mashed up a belgian trippel.  Started raising the heat to mash 
temperture, and then walked away.  When I checked the heat for adjustment 
25 minutes later I found that I had overshot the initial temp and had 
been mashing at 160F for all that time.  I went ahead and let the 
temperature drop on its own without any adjustment. (Mistake number two)

Anyway... to make a long story longer... I went ahead and sparged and 
fermented SG 1.085 FG 1.025.

Any suggestions on what to do with 2 cases of Belgian Trippel Waffle Syrup?
This stuff is so sweet... I can't finish a bottle.

I'm gonna try mixing it with some of my latest Butter Lager (another 
failure... didn't do the diacetyl rest) and see if I have a Mrs 
Butterworths Belgian Trippel Waffle and Pancake syrup beer.

(To quote Dave Barry... I am not making this up!)

Actually this beer tastes a lot like the new Belgian Quadruple that 
recently hit the market.

=> Rich  (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
    "Spice is the variety of life." ... Me
________________________________________________________________________


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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 20:02:03 -0500
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Bells yeast / Steam jacket kettl

I work at Bells (Kalamazoo Brewing), and yes our beers are naturally
carbonated and you can recover the yeast.
The simplest way to do so would be to open the bottle, torch the top with a
bic lighter, and pour all but the last inch or two into a glass and drink it.
 Have about 5 oz. of S.G. 20 wort boiled and cooled and pour it into the
bottle. Pop on an airlock and you are in business. You do have to pitch this
to starter also.

Someone asked awhile back about the use of a steam jacket industrial soup
kettle for brewing. We use one at Bells for making our yeast starters. We use
a Groen 2 bbl. We never have had a problem with clogging of the outlet. While
boiling you should strain off all protiens that coagulate on top. We mash and
boil in it and it is fine. We do although through a screen in before the last
hop strike.


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Date:          Thu, 29 Dec 1994 19:20:48 +0000
From: "Lee Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       BREWS

Brews.... where are you??  I got the beers but I seem to have lost 
your E-mail address.


 -Lee Bussy           |   The Homebrew Television Workshop Presents:         |
 leeb at southwind.net  |   The 4 Basic Foodgroups... Salt, Fat, Beer & Women  |
 Wichita, Kansas     |   A Special Documentary on Proper Diet.  This Week   |
 Super Brewer!       |   On your local PBS Station.  Check local listings.  |


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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 21:55:11 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: Jail house brew


Just an anecdote while things are a bit slow:  In the SC prison system home-
made alcoholic beverage is known as "buck."  It's usually made in five-gallon
buckets, which are surreptitiously squirreled about and hidden from prison
staff.  Bread yeast is preferred, obtained from the bakery, but the sock 
trick is not unknown.  (Gaack!)  "Fermentables" include fruit, fruit peels,
sugary junk food, etc.  "Oh boy, Twinkie Buck!"  We had a case a few years
ago where some of the boys got hold of a 5-gallon Paraquat (herbicide) bucket
and, ignoring the stern warning "Do not re-use container," proceeded to make
buck in it.  Most of the participants got quite a buzz from it.  Most of 'em
also got quite a bit of lung and liver damage, aggravated by the fact that 
many of them didn't say a word about how sick they felt, figuring that it
was just an exceptionally powerful batch...
May all your new years be better than the old,
Cam LAy
James Island, SC

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Date: 29 Dec 1994 15:42:45 GMT
From: willpaynter at cosmos-uk.org (Will Paynter)
Subject: FAQ for begginer

I am new to the internet and I noticed this digest/usergroup in a catalouge.
And after recieving the first issue I am intrigued. Nut I don't have a clue
about how to go about it. So if you have a FAQ or something could you pleAse
send it to me at:
willpaynter at cosmos-uk.org

Thanks,

Will


 - sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).


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Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 19:18:57 -0800
From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman)
Subject: A warning.

One of my friends turned up missing this holiday. The following unsent
message was found  in his blood-soaked, bullet-riddled apartment in his
mail queue on his computer.  We do not have high hopes for his safe return.
I post it here as a warning to any of you who are considering sending your
beer by the US Mail.  The names have been changed to protect the guilty.


>It is official.
>
>Right now, as I type this, a disgruntled postal worker sits in his mobile
>>home, the dim light from a 40 watt bulb glints off the cold, grey steel
>of his >AK-47.  He pauses for a moment and stops oiling the action long
>enough to take >a drink of what should have been MY BUCKWIT!!!!
>
>He gasps and chokes on the strange flavors of the exotic brew. Then he
>stands >up, spits it out and throws the bottle against the living room
>wall.  The >broken glass hasn't even settled on the floor by the time he
>has his 300-shot >drum-magazine loaded.  He heads out the door with the
>gun over his right >shoulder and a torn peice of packaging material in his
>left hand.
>
>The address written on the packing material is incomplete, it doesn't have
>the >apartment number.  With the apartment, the package would have arrived
>on my >doorstep months ago.  Without it, it was sent to the dead letter
>office to be >opened in search of a more succint delivery address, only to
>be confiscated by >a heavily armed psychopath.
>
>It doesn't matter though, when he gets here he will have no trouble
>finding me, >mine is the first apartment he will see once he crashes
>through the glass >windows in the entry way.
>
>I have to go now Dean, I think my time is almost up.





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Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 00:18:36 -0600 (CST)
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: First batch

===> Jeffrey M. Collins asks some brewing questions after his first batch:

> First, how long does it usually take to cool wort to below 80 degrees F?  
> I've heard about using wort coolers, but I'd rather go "au naturale."  My 
> first batch took 6 and a half hours to cool.  Is this normal, and what are 
> the chances of contamination when I'm lifting up the lid on my fermentor 
> every hour to check the temp?

I'm not sure there is anything particularily good or desirable about
au naturale cooling.  Using an immersion chiller, I can cool my worts
to <80^F in 10 min in the winter and 15 min in the summer.  The more
rapid the cooling, the better the cold break and the less the chances
of hot side aeration and infection.

> Second, I'm supposed to let the stuff brew for 7 to 10 days.  I'm on day 5, 
> just returned from the in-laws after four glorious fun-filled days of family 
> activities, and there seems to be no gaseous activity whatsoever.  Is it 
> ready to bottle, or should I wait a few more days?

Check your specific gravities.  What was the OG?  What is the SG now?
 
> Third, The folks at the brew shop said that the hydrometer (?) is completely 
> optional, but everyone seems to be using 'em.  Should I really get one?

Yes.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1618, 12/30/94