FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  attenuation/carbonation: what happened to it? (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  New Brew Pub (t.duchesneau)
  Propane cookers (TPuskar)
  Using honey (M_MACADAMS)
  Kegging and Sanitation (CC21B) RUST" <CCMAIL.PRUST at A50VM1.TRG.NYNEX.COM>
  U Brew opening in Chicago (Paul Sovcik)
  BJCP EXAM and PREP SESSIONS (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  pH 4.01 reference solution ("Christopher V. Sack")
  Brewing With Rye (Fred Waltman)
  Brew clubs in Seattle. (Jason Petteway)
  Beer Software for Windows (Ben Piela)
  Water Analysis ("KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814)
  Leaky 5liter keg tap (Scott Walls)
  Boy, is my face red!  Sorry (uswlsrap)
  Coyote ("Julie Cody")
  HSA / Rye / Brewsack / Icebocks ("Palmer.John")
  BAKED BEER? (IAN)
  kegging and dispensing pressure ("KEVIN A. KUTSKILL")
  water chemistry (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  "Microwave" (molloy)
  Boston<tm-not> Beer<tm-not> (uswlsrap)
  Lager yeast with stout (DONBREW)
  Pilsner Urquell (Michael McGuire)
  bitterness loss in blowoff/starters (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Inverted Fermenters (M. Blind, Man of Vision)
  temperature controllers (Dan Sherman)
  Brown Malt (Bob Jones)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 4 Jan 95 19:50:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: attenuation/carbonation: what happened to it?

Lenny writes:
>Subject: prematurely attenuating cider


>Well, after 6 days SG was 1.045 and the bubbling has slowed down 
>considerably.  This means 5% alcohol, 6% to go.  I expected the 
>fermentation to be vigorous until at least 80-90% of the sugar was gone, 
>not 50%.  Is this destined to be a very, very sweet 5-6% alcohol cider?  
>Is there any reason why champagne yeast should be better than cote des 
>blancs wine yeast?

First of all, I think you may be misusing the term "attenuating."  Perhaps
what you meant to say is "prematurely expiring yeast."  Attenuation is
a measure of the percentage of sugars that a particular yeast will eat.
An attenuative yeast will tend to eat bigger (more complex) sugars in
addition to the simpler sugars that all yeasts can eat.

Also, while different yeast strains have different tolerances for alcohol
and different attenuations, oxygen plays an even more important role than
yeast strain.  If you simply plunk a package of virtually any yeast into
a poorly aerated batch of 1100 wort, you'll be lucky if the gravity makes
it down to 1050.  However, if a big yeast starter is made (like 2 to 3 liters
- -- yes, you can pour-off the spent starter wort, if you wish) and the wort
is WELL AERATED, then you can expect the final gravity to be more like
1030 or even 1025 with some yeasts.

Now, I don't know much about cider or mead, but I *do* know that if you aerate
apple juice, it oxidizes and turns brown.  I believe that some cidermakers
add ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to prevent this, but it seems to me that this
would be counter-productive to a good fermentation -- the ascorbic acid would
take oxygen out of solution and away from the yeast, no?  So what should
we do?  How can we give yeast the oxygen they need without aerating the juice?

Answer: aerate the starter... A LOT!  You can do this with multiple feedings
of your starter yeast, each time pouring off the spent wort after the yeast
have settled and then adding more, cooled and aertated wort.  Another way
to do it is to crop the yeast from a previous batch of beer/cider/mead, but
it is recommend that yeast from high-alcohol ferments not be reused (according
to brewers like Sierra Nevada, high-alcohol ferments have lots of mutations
and thus they never reuse the yeast from their Bigfoot Barleywine or
Celebration Ale batches -- I believe that Celebration has an OG of 1066, so
that gives you an idea of what they believe is a high-alcohol ferment).

**********
Steve writes:
>The bottles have good carbonation at room
>temperature and if quick cooled in the freezer for 20-30 minutes. If the
>bottles are left in the freezer for 40+ minutes or left in the refrigerator
>overnight the beer is totally flat.

This is a matter of physics.  More CO2 will dissolve in colder beer than in
warmer beer.  If you get it too cold, when you open the bottle, the beer will
be undercarbonated.  3/4 cup of corn sugar should be enough to provide decent
carbonation even at 40F so perhaps some of your caps poorly sealed and this
was just a coincidence?  Or could it be that you conditioned (let sit to
carbonate) the beer at too cold a temperature?  If so, then warm it up and
give it a few more weeks.  Could you have shocked the yeast (i.e did you
immediately stick all the bottles into the fridge after bottling and then
later pull them out after remembering that you needed them to carbonate)?
If so, then again, warm up the bottles (65-70F) and give them a few weeks
for the yeast to revive and carbonate -- it may help to give the bottles
a shake every couple of days to resuspend that shocked yeast).

Al.

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Date: Thu,  5 Jan 95 11:05:00 UTC
From: t.duchesneau at genie.geis.com
Subject: New Brew Pub

  I posted this to the GEnie Zymurgy Roundtable a couple days ago and
decided that it might be of interest here also:
 
  I just realized that I hadn't posted anything about my Christmas eve
 discovery.  I was having a brew or two at the Vermont Pub & Brewery in
 Burlington that afternoon and talking to the guy next to me.  I mentioned
 that I was going to my sister's in Stowe and he asked if I knew about the
 new brew pub there at The Shed, a popular restaurant that burned to the
 ground about a year ago and had recently re-opened.
 
  That evening found me the only one at the front bar at The Shed, so I got
 to talk to the bartender while I sipped at my sampler.  They had four of
 their own ales, a golden, a pale, a brown, and a winter.  In addition, they
 had ld Thumper and Blue Fin Stout from Shipyard Brewery in Portland ME.  All
 six were excellent - I think the house Winter was my favorite.
 
  The bartender told the brewmaster that I was there and after he finished
 his dinner, I got a personal tour of the brewery.  The mashing and cooking
 are done at bar level, the rest of the brewery is in the basement.  They
 have a 7 barrel capacity and ferment open using Ringwood yeast.
 
  If you're going north skiing, this is definitely worth a stop.
 
                                ...Tom
 

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 07:47:01 -0500
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: Propane cookers

Thanks to everyone who replied to my request for info on propane cookers.  I
rec'd more than 20 Emails and several posts.

The consensus of opinions of users is that these things are the greatest
things going for homebrewing--right behind hops & yeast.  No one who has
tried them seemed to badmouth them.  A few people mentioned that burner
control sensitivity could be improved upon.

Just about everyone agrees that they should not be used indoors without
substantial ventilation.  Ventilation systems ranged from two or more open
windows to fans with open windows.  There are apparently a lot of garage
brewers and back porch brewers as well.  Bottom line is as long as you use
them close to outside and with plenty of airflow and ventilation, they are
great additions to a home brewery. 

Thanks again to all who replied.  I'll be buying one next trip to Sam's Club.
 It's 18 degrees F with a wind chill of -8 here in Jersey today so I think
I'll mess up the kitchen one more time. ; - )

Happy brewing,
Tom Puskar


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Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 09:03:22 -0500
From: M_MACADAMS at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US
Subject:  Using honey

Hello,

I am considering using honey in an upcoming brew and was
wondering how much to use and when to use it.  What I would like
is to add a little honey flavor to a lager, I'm not really
interested in increased alcohol content.  Should I add the honey
instead of priming sugar or is it best to add it to the wort? If
I add it instead of priming sugar, should I make and boil a
honey-water mixture before adding it to the beer to avoid
contamination?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
   Mike


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Date: 05 Jan 1995 08:38:08 GMT
From: "PETER (CC21B) RUST" <CCMAIL.PRUST at A50VM1.TRG.NYNEX.COM>
Subject: Kegging and Sanitation


     I have acquired an old refrigerator, converted it to a "beer-fridge"
     and started to keg my beer.  I have a few questions on sanitation.
     How often must I clean the beer-out line and faucet.  I use the faucet
     once or twice during the week and daily on weekends.  I have noticed
     that beer dries up inside the faucet during the week.  I have beer
     line cleaner that I plan to put into a spare keg (when I get one) and
     drive through the beer-line and faucet with CO2.  Any other
     suggestions on how to keep the system clean or how frequently to do
     this procedure?  Has anyone had an infection develop in the dispensing
     side and migrate back into the keg?  Also, I would appreciate feedback
     from anyone who has purchased kegs from the ad in the magazines: 5
     gallon reconditioned kegs for $29.95 - 1-800-YOUR KEG, or
     recommendations for other suppliers that can provide
     near-perfect-condition kegs.  Feel free to E-Mail or post your
     response.  Thanks

     Pete Rust
     ccmail.prust at nynex.com



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Date:         Thu, 05 Jan 95 10:05:49 CST
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      U Brew opening in Chicago

In regards to U Brews:

     There will be a U Brew opening in Chicago in late January.  Apparently
it will be located in one of the more "upscale" neighborhoods in Chicago
(Lincoln Park) and will be brewing 15 gal batches starting at $85 or so.

   No affiliation.... Im not even sure I'll be a customer...

 -Paul
Paul Sovcik     Chicago Ill     pjs at uic.edu

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Date: 5 Jan 95 16:19:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: BJCP EXAM and PREP SESSIONS


Chicagoland area BJCP Certification Exam and associated Prep Sessions

BJCP Certification Exam Sunday, February 12th, 1995, starting at 12 Noon,
at Lion's Head Ale House (13301 South Olde Western Avenue, Blue Island, IL)

Preparation Sessions (choose one): Wednesday, January 11th, 1995,
from 7pm to 9pm  ***OR*** Wednesday, January 18th, 1995, from 7pm to 9pm
at Sheaf & Vine Brewing Supply in Countryside, Illinois (western burb of Chi).

    For more info, please call: 708-430-HOPS, evenings or weekends.

Al.

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:06:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher V. Sack" <cvsack at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: pH 4.01 reference solution

I read in the last issue of HBD, that a 0.5M solution of potassium
hydrogen phthalate (PHP) gave a 4.01 pH reference mixture.  This is not
quite correct.  It should be a 0.05M solution.  This works out to 10.21g
of PHP per liter of distilled water (or 1.021g/100mL). 

Most chemistry and biology labs should have the compound.

For those who are worried about chemicals in their kitchen, the Merck 
Index gives the following info on phthalic acid (PHP + HCl, ie. stomach acid)
Human Toxicity:  Moderately irritating to the skin and moucous membranes.
LD50 (orally in rats): 8.0g/kg (or about 600g for a 165lb human) 

Christopher Sack, Homebrewer and organic chemist

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:28:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Subject: Brewing With Rye


Robert Mech askes about brewing with rye:

Both flaked rye and malted rye are available at many homebrew shops. Last
fall I made a beer with malted rye. The receipe was 40% malted rye, 60%
pilsner malt, 1 oz Hallertau (5%?) pellets for 60 min, Wyeast 1056. I
purposly kept things "bland" to let any rye character come thru. 

The result was interesting. It was very much like a wheat beer, but with 
a little "spice" in the background. I have been meaning to try it again 
with more rye and maybe a wheat yeast, but have not had time.

On another subject if anybody has recommendations on a cheap (but clean!) 
place to stay in Dusseldorf or Cologne, please email me. Ditto for beer 
sites not mention in Micheal Jackson (or for that matter, places to avoid).
Thanks in advance.

Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co.
waltman at netcom.com


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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:32:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Petteway <jasonp at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Brew clubs in Seattle.


I am a relative newcomer to homebrewing and am getting ready to bottle my 
third batch.

I would be really be into getting together with other homebrewers in the 
Seattle area, either formally (as in a brew club) or informally (as in 
getting together with others and drinking). Both would be great since I 
am sure I could benefit from other brewer's experience.

Thanks alot

Jason Petteway
UW Dept. of Urology
jasonp at u.washington.edu

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 09:26:41 EST
From: ben at fcmc.com (Ben Piela)
Subject: Beer Software for Windows

Hello all fellow homebrewers,

In the issue of Zymurgy magazine featuring Special Ingredients and 
Indigenous Beer, I noticed three advertisements for Beer software for
Windows.  Since I have just purchased a PC and I am still in that
purchasing mood, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience
with any of the packages and maybe wouldn't mind ellaborating on those
experiences either to the digest or to my personal email.  The packages 
are
	1) Brew Master from Abita Software in CA for $39+$3P&H
	2) Brewer's Calculator from Regent Software in CA for $39+$3P&H
	3) Brew Wizard from ANTROM Associates in MD for $59.00+FREE P&H

All three products of features such as Recipe Formulation for many styles
of brewing, Inventory Databases, Batch Logging, and "Much More!"  Any and 
all info will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much,


Ben Piela
ben at fcmc.com

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Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 11:45:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814 <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>" <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>
Subject: Water Analysis

Hi,=20
    Here is the water analysis information for Milwaukee, WI.  Where =
do I
start?  I brew ales for the most part (everything from Weiss to Stout=
),
however, I will be brewing Lagers soon.  My beer is mainly extract wi=
th some
grain added.  I haven't been able to locate Millers book yet, so any =
help would
be appreciated.=20

Thank You,
 Kevin Fons <KFONS at QGRAPH.COM>

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------=
- ---

HOWARD AVENUE PURIFICATION PLANT (Milwaukee Wisconsin)

1993 TYPICAL SANITARY CHEMICAL ANALYSES IN MILLIGRAMS PER LITER


Water is purified using Chlorine Gas

Determination

Physical

  Color Units=09=09=09=09=091
  pH=09=09=09=09=09=097.50
  Residue 103 - 105  C, Filterable =09=090
  Residue 103=97105  C, Nonfilterable =09=09160
  Residue 103 - 105  C, Total =09=09=09160
  Specific Conductance, micromhos/cm =09=09250
  Taste Units Temperature  F =09=09=09N=20
  Temperature  F=09=09=09=0950
  Threshold Odor Units Turbidity N.T.U. =092
  Turbidity=09=09=09=09=090.1

Chemical

  Alkalinity, Total*=09=09=09=09107
  Aluminum=09=09=09=09=090.03
  Carbon Dioxide (Free) =09=09=098.1
  Chlorides=09=09=09=09=0916.0
  Chlorine Residual, Total=09=09=090.92
  Copper=09=09=09=09=090.01
  Fluoride=09=09=09=09=091.10
  Hardness, Calcium*=09=09=09=0996
  Hardness, Magnesium*=09=09=09=0947
  Hardness, Total*=09=09=09=09143
  Iron=09=09=09=09=09=090.04
  Langelier Saturation Index =09=09=09-0.49
  Manganese=09=09=09=09=090.01
  Nitrogen, Ammonia=09=09=09=090.20
  Nitrogen, Nitrate=09=09=09=090.47
  Nitrogen, Nitrite=09=09=09=090.001
  Nitrogen, Organic=09=09=09=090.26
  Oxygen, Dissolved=09=09=09=0911.0
  Soluble Phosphate as P=09=09=090.01
  Silica (SiO2) =09=09=09=091.91
  Sodium=09=09=09=09=097.0
  Sulfate=09=09=09=09=0926.2
  Sulfide=09=09=09=09=09---
  Total Phosphorus as P=09=09=09=090.02
  Zinc=09=09=09=09=09=090.03

*As Calcium Carbonate=20
(+) Tendency to Form a Deposit=20
(-) Tendency to Corrode



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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 14:04:26 EST
From: walls at e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Scott Walls)
Subject: Leaky 5liter keg tap

In the past there has been some discussion in HBD on the 5 liter kegging
systems that are available. I have a friend of mine who has one of
these systems and it leaks. When dispensing beer the tap leaks at the base and
makes a puddle of beer on top of the keg. He has the metal tap (supposedly the 
top of the line)a.

Some questions I have are:
1.) Are these systems used to dispense only and not store beer?
2.) Anyone had a problem with a leaky tap?
3.) Should you avoid opening the CO2 Regulator all the way? Can this
    damaage the tap and cause it to leak at lower pressures?
4.) Could he be doing anything wrong that would cause this?

He has gone through 2 taps now and they both leak. Any helpful suggestions
or experiences would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Scott Walls
walls at e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com
Brewerton, NY  --near Syracuse 

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Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 14:33:05 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Boy, is my face red!  Sorry                                      

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino               Research Analyst
Subject: Boy, is my face red!  Sorry

Yesterday, I asked about what I thought was a long since abandoned thread about
starting a high gravity brew with one yeast, and then pitching Champagne yeast
in secondary to finish the job.  I wondered how one would do that given the
obvious problem with oxidation.  If you were to do it, you'd need a pretty big
starter, but how big?

Well, I didn't find an answer to the "how much" question, but when I was
reading through one of the accumulated HBDs that piled up while I was out of
town for the holidays, I noted a related question, to which Jim Busch suggested
NOT doing it except as a last resort, that you certainly shouldn't PLAN to do
it that way.  The lesson, of course, is to keep up on your reading before
hitting the keyboard after an absence.  Sorry.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com

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Date: 5 Jan 1995 14:03:06 U
From: "Julie Cody" <jcody at acadresources.mda.uth.tmc.edu>
Subject: Coyote

Minimalist Mail               Coyote
What's happened to John Wyllie (aka COYOTE)?  It sure would be nice to have
some of that ol' anarchy and humor again...

Julie Cody
jcody at acadresources.mda.uth.tmc.edu
Houston, Texas

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson



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Date: 5 Jan 1995 12:28:41 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: HSA / Rye / Brewsack / Icebocks

Hi Group,

James had unfortunate luck with HSA this past batch and wondered why. The cause
was right there in your procedure James. You added cold water directly to the
Hot Wort. The water contained dissolved oxygen; whether you pour hot wort in
cold water or vice versa, the result will be the same. Cool the wort first
before diluting and you won't have that problem.
***

Rob Mech asks about Rye:
There is a pretty complete article on using Rye in the Sept/Oct 1993 issue of
Brewing Techniques. (Havent used it myself).
***

Doland got a Brewsack for Christmas:
My brother in law made one last year and said it was good (dubious-JP). I would
say that your best bet is to watch your fermentation temperature. Keep it in
the low to mid 60s, as you really dont know what kind of yeast it is. Don't get
your hopes up. Those things are a real comprimise of all the brewing processes.
***

Eric had a similar experience with his lager freezing on him. 
If you let it thaw, it should be okay. I am probably going to force carbonate
mine, so I wont be worrying about tired yeast for carbonation. I also
considered krausening it with an active starter of the same yeast culture. That
would probably be a good idea if you cant force carbonate.
***

John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com  Huntington Beach, California
          *Brewing is Fun*

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Date:          Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:44:12 PST8PDT
From: <IAN at cppus.com>
Subject:       BAKED BEER?

Fellow Homebrewers:

I am having a problem driving enough heat through my wort to get a 
nice full rolling boil.  Right now, I am short on cash and I am not 
able to buy a "King Kooker" or similar unit.  So, my question is:
"can I put my kettle (enamel on steel) in the oven and bake the wort?  
If I can, is there a temperature I should be shooting for?"

TIA for your input.  E-mail is fine but highly discouraged.    

BTW, the HBD has been a great help to me in every facet of my brewing 
education.  Keep up the wonderful dialogue.

     ***************SOLI DEO GLORIA, even beer********************

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Date: 05 Jan 95 17:02:40 EST
From: "KEVIN A. KUTSKILL" <75233.500 at compuserve.com>
Subject: kegging and dispensing pressure

Here's a problem for the collective wisdom of the hbd experts--
What is the correct dispensing pressure for my kegged homebrew?
I have a cornelius keg and a new regulator/gauge set-up (so I
know the pressure is right).  I am using the picnic tap for dispensing.
With the style of beer that I have been drinking lately, I force 
carbonate with a pressure of 16 PSI at 44 degrees for 3-5 days,
which carbonates the beer perfectly.  However, if I dispense the beer  
at this pressure, I get a mug of foam :-(  If I dispense at a pressure 
of 3-4 PSI, it dispenses perfectly--but the beer gets flat if left at 
that pressure.  Am I condemed to blowing off CO2 from a pressure 
of 16 PSI down to 4 PSI, then re-pressurize back up to 16 PSI 
everytime I want a homebrew?  

TIA,

Kevin Kutskill, Clinton Twp, MI
75233.500 at compuserve.com


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Date: 5 Jan 95 20:24:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: water chemistry

Jim writes:
>My understanding is that the number for total hardness is comprised of the
>temporary hardness and permanent hardness. The former is that which is caused
>by the presence of carbonates and can be removed by boiling, whereas permanent
>hardness is due to the presence of sulfate and cannot be removed by boiling.

Not quite.  My knowledge of water chemistry is not as strong as I would
like it to be, but there are some things of which I'm quite sure.  Permanent
hardness is primarily from the calcium and the magnesium in the water.
The fact that calcium is most often added by brewers (and most often occurs)
as Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum) is why "hard water" is usually high in sulphates.
However, high sulphates are not really "desirable" (unless you are trying
to brew Burton Ales), and acidifying with acids (lactic, phosphoric, acid
blend, etc.) or adding calcium via Calcium Chloride is probably a better
choice for all but making Burton-style Ales or, if memory serves correctly,
Dortmunders.

>BTW, you cannot use gypsum to acidify *sparge* water. It works in the mash
>due to a reaction between the calcium and phosphorous that is naturally
>present in the grain (I'm a little fuzzy on the details of this reaction -
>somebody help me out here), but will not work when added to water.

I'm fuzzy here too and would like someone to clear this up.  I was under
the impression that adding calcium (as Gypsum or as Calcium Chloride) indeed
does not "acidify" the water (i.e. it does not add H+ ions as true
acidification would), but rather buffers it and keeps the pH low.  My
understanding is also that carbonates have a very strong ability to lower
the pH and thus simply adding gypsum to high-carbonate water will not lower
pH, nor will it keep the pH from getting too high.

>Here I must disagree. My first few attempts at pale ales using this type of
>water had a horribly harsh bitterness. I eventually traced the problem to
>high carbonate levels and hopping levels that were appropriately high for
>the style (30-35 IBUs).

Are you sure Jim?  Consider that Dublin water is very, very high in carbonates
and that Guinness is quite highly hopped (50 IBUs comes to mind, but don't
quote me on this) and is certainly not harshly bitter.  I believe that the
flavour effect of carbonates in beer is to reduce the sourness that can occur
with dark malts.

>The hardness in the water at Burton-on-Trent, home
>of the pale ale style, is due to high *sulfate* content. The sulfate content
>of the water emphasizes hop bitterness and flavor in a clean, pleasant manner.

Hmmm?  Again, I'm not sure I agree.  The hardness in the water of Burton-
on-Trent is due to the calcium and, since this apparently comes from
Gypsum in the ground, the sulphate levels are correspondingly high.  I do
love the beers of Burton-on-Trent and agree their bitterness is different
from that of a Bohemian Pilsner, which is made from very soft water and
high hop rate, but I would say that the difference is more in how the hop
bitterness fades in the finish.  In a low-sulphate beer, the bitterness
ends quite abruptly whereas in a high-sulphate beer, the bitterness extends
into a long, dry, lingering finish.

This seems a good time to post the results of my query on acid and CaCl2
additions, but I'll break it up into two posts, cause this is already too
long.

Al.

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:36:10 -0500
From: molloy at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: "Microwave"

   I had my third batch of Brew go bad and decided that all the time I
had spent making it justified my not being relaxed any more!

   I had heard recently that a microwave oven will kill bacteria in
womans underpants who have yeast infections. Yes it is stupid but true.

   So what does this have to do with Beer? I use the quick clean methods
of sterilization so any easy extra methods I can do, help. After a quick
bleach wash I use the microwave to sanitize hard to clean parts like 
spickets, hoses, hose ends, etc...

   My last two batches have been outstanding! Thank you.

*** WARNING *** Do not cook to long, parts will melt, trust me!

P. Molloy  Kalamazoo MI. "Newcomer to the Net"

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Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 17:41:42 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Boston<tm-not> Beer<tm-not>                                      

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino               Research Analyst
Subject: Boston<tm-not> Beer<tm-not>

Okay, here I go at the keyboard again without having read all the back issues
from December, but here goes--an answer to the question about the BBC v. BBW
case.

First, you really don't have to go to Boston to do the research--any law
library will do.  But for those of you too lazy to do even that, here's the
citation: 9 F3d 175, decided 16 Novembeer 1993.

BBC went to U.S. District Court to get an injunction against BBW, was denied,
appealed to U.S. Court of Appeals, First Circuit, which affirmed the lower
court ruling.

What BBC wanted was to prevent BBW from using the words "Boston" and "Beer"
in the names of their products on the grounds that it was similar to those used
for BBC products and would confuse and mislead the public.  The courts both
said that the use of the words was not distinctive and not entitled to
trademark protection.

One interesting note in the case was a survey of two different groups of beer
drinkers asked to identify whether various products were made by the BBC (the
other group was asked about BBW). Both groups responded in similar numbers
which might appear to support BBC's case were it not for the within group
differences.  36% correctly identified "Samuel Adams" as a product of the BBC
(a similar percentage in the other group recognised it (incorrectly) as a
product of the BBW.  But note that only 4% identified "Boston Ale" as a BBC
product.  Not very distinctive, eh?  The court also noted the use of the name
Boston Beer Company in advertising is much less prominent than "Samuel Adams,"
"Best Beer in America," et cetera.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 18:27:45 -0500
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: Lager yeast with stout

>-
>
>Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 09:06:33 -0500
>From: sematkos at mailbox.syr.edu (Steve Matkoski)
>Subject: Lager yeast with Stout?
>
>Hi,
>Has anyone tried doing this? It is very cold up here right now and
>I wanted to brew up a nice stout. I cant keep the temp in the house
>steady enough for ale yeast, I thought maybe I could try a Lager
>yeast. What do you think?
>
> -steve.

I had the same idea back in November, I now have a nice looking 1.089 "super"
stout almost ready to bottle.  It was also my second attempt at doing a real
lager, so I'm not expecting spectacular results, the first was just bottled
last week, so I don't know about it either.

Don
donbrew at aol.com


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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 17:53:18 CST
From: mcguire at hvsun21.mdc.com (Michael McGuire)
Subject: Pilsner Urquell

 HI,
     2
     3   I've got some basic questions that I have been
     4   unable to answer with the archives.  I bought Pazaian
     5   and Miller's books on HB.  Up until now, I've been only
     6   brewing ales.  But, now with cool weather I'm attempting a
     7   Pilsner Urquell style lager.  First, where can I order Laaglanders
     8   pale extract(miller is rather specific)?  I've heard that
     9   Alexanders extracts are not suggested in pale beers?
    10
    11   I thought using the Bohiemian (wyeast) would be
    12   the way to get the slight diastatic flavor(archives suggest it is
    13   one of the four? Pilsner Urquell yeasts), but Miller suggests
    14   2308.  Also when the net discusses Pilsner Urquell as being
    15   lagered for months, what do you guys mean. Does the PRIMARY
    16   fermentation
    17   take months or are you letting it sit in the secondary for
    18   months??  I was thinking to subsitute 6.6#Briess golden extract for
    19   the Alexanders and Laaglanders, use Boheimian lager yeast with *Lots*
    20   of Saaz hops(bittering, finishing,dry hopping).  Will this give
    21   me the
    22   results I'm after??
    23
    24   Best Regards
    25   Michael mcguimp at vpcs.msfc.nasa.gov

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Date: 6 Jan 95 00:17:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: bitterness loss in blowoff/starters

Please excuse the untimeliness of these topics, but I ran across them at
times when I was behind in my reading and wanted to make sure that 20 people
had not already beat the topic to death.

Norm writes:
> Another question:  Mark Garetz contends that the hop resins that get pushed
> to the top of the krauesen during fermentation become oxidized and insoluble,
> so that even if they fall back in the wort they are lost in terms of
> their bitterness contribution.  I don't quite understand this, as it seems
> that by the time high krauesen occurs, the environment in the top of the
> fermenter should be quite oxygen-free.  Any comments?
 
I asked Mark about this in private email, months ago, and  I believe, if I
recall correctly, Mark's assertion was that the oxygen was coming from the
wort itself and not from the headspace, which answers Norm's question, but
does not explain why there is a significant difference in bitterness between
blowoff and non-blowoff batches.  I am not able to be any more specific at
this time, but there is an article in an upcoming Zymurgy that will provide
more details on quantitative analysis of blowoff versus non-blowoff beers.

***************

Steve writes:
>When someone says, '...a 2 qt starter...', are they referring to the total
>volume of the starter or the volume of the dregs that are harvested/collected
>and pitched.

They are referring to the total volume of the starter.  To build up 2 quarts
of yeast slurry would be quite a feat for a homebrewer!

************
Jim writes:
>People have been giving a lot of useful anecdotal information about using
>yeast starters recently, but it's less useful than it might be. A "one
>quart starter" doesn't tell all: 
 
>What was the OG of the starter? To first approximation, a 1.020 starter
>allows half as much total yeast growth as a 1.040 starter. Is a one-quart
>1.040 starter equivalent to a two-quart 1.020 starter?
 
There are conflicting opinions both on HBD and in the literature as to
what the proper OG should be for a starter.  To summarize the two sides
of this debate, those who prefer to use 1.020 worts for starters do so
to avoid stressing the yeast in the starter -- i.e. not asking too much
of them; just giving them lots of O2 and some food and not asking them to
create a 5%abv environment.  Those who believe in higher-gravity starters
argue that it is better to let the yeast grow initially in an environment
similar to that they will be expected to perform their main job.  Mind you,
it has been mentioned recently in HBD that high-alcohol ferments tend to
increase mutation.  Therefore, even the high-gravity starter supporters
usually only use 1.040 or 1.050 worts.  I theorize that perhaps a hybrid of
the two methods would be best: start with 100ml of 1.020 wort, stepping up
to 500ml of 1.030 wort, then finally 2L of 1.040 wort on the way to a
1.050 or higher main wort.

Since we're on the topic of starters, let me mention that some brewers
like to use hops in their starters for their antibacterial properties.
It is true that hops do inhibit some bacteria (some strains of lactobaccilus,
for example), but do nothing to others (like pediococcus cerevisiae or
acetobacter).  Personally, I don't use them.

>Was an airlock used on the starter? Aerobic and anaerobic growth of
>starters give different results. (Brewers Resource suggests aerobic
>growth with their yeast starter kit, with only a sheet of aluminum foil
>over the top of the flask. Others have suggested anaerobic growth.)

I use a glass airlock on my starters so I can pressure-cook it along
with the flask and the starter wort (don't try this on a plastic airlock!).
Yeast Propagators, used by commercial yeast growers, have aerators in
them, I'm told, as well as incremental feeding (possibly similar to the
scenario I've mentioned above) so the yeast are indeed grown aerobically.

Covering the top of the flask with aluminum foil will not, I'm afraid,
result in aerobic yeast growth since as soon as CO2 begins to be produced,
it will purge out the air whether you cover the flask with an airlock or
foil.  No, to provide aerobic environment for the yeast in the starter,
you need some kind of active air or oxygen injection system and it had
better be sterile air or oxygen.

Personally, I believe that as long as you aerate your starter media well
initially, I don't think you need to mess around with aeration during
fermentation.  Incidentally, I use 1.030 unhopped wort made from Munton
and Fison plain light dried malt extract and make up a 500-750ml starter
for lower gravity ales (below 1.050) and a 1-2L starter for higher gravity
ales (above 1.050).  For lagers, double these amounts would not be overkill.
For gravities above 1.090, I think even a 4 liter starter would not be
too big (yes, you can pour off the spent wort), and in fact, the slurry
from a lower gravity 5-gallon batch would be even better.

Just a reminder about pitch timing, according to an article in the ASBC
Proceedings, the proper time to pitch a starter is just AFTER the yeast
has settled.  See back issues of HBD for a summary of the article  --
search for "glycogen."

Al.

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 20:18:16 -0500 (EST)
From: gtd862a at prism.gatech.edu (M. Blind, Man of Vision)
Subject: Inverted Fermenters

I'll keep this short...   What I would like is some sort of info on
inverted fermenters, like how to build one with a minimum of equipment or
cash expenditure.   What I'm looking at is some way use my 5-gal carboy in
this design...  would it be stupid of me just to flip the sucker over?

I know this topic has popped up every now and then, I guess I was just
unconscious or drunk at the time.  Private e-mail is fine.

If others are interested, I'll post the suggestions and my own design here
later.

TIA,
Matt
- -- 
                          |  "What'll you have, Norm?"
M. Blind                  |  "Fame, fortune, and fast women."
gtd862a at prism.gatech.edu  |  "How 'bout a beer?"
                          |  "Even better."  -normism

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Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 18:03:42 -0800 (PST)
From: dsherman at sdcc3.UCSD.EDU (Dan Sherman)
Subject: temperature controllers

I was looking for a temperature controller about a month ago & did a
search of the 1994 HBD.  Here are the model numbers of temperature
controllers I found in several posts:

Honeywell #T6031A 1029
Johnson Controls #A319ABC-24-01
Grainger #2E834
Dayton #2E399

I found the Honeywell and Johnson Controls temperature controllers
at a local heating/cooling wholesaler.  They were both about $35.
Both have temperature ranges from less than 0 degrees F to around
100 degrees F.  Both have adjustable temperature differentials.
I decided on the Johnson Controls unit for 2 reasons:

1)  The temperature sensor is connected to the unit by a wire, not a
copper tube, so it is much easier to run under the refrig. door
gasket & place the sensor wherever I want.  The instructions say
that the sensor can be run up to 800ft. from the unit!!  The 8ft.
sensor wire supplied is good enough for me.
2)  The lowest differential setting is 1 degree F, where the lowest
setting for the Honeywell unit is 3.5 degrees F.

I hopes this helps.

Dan Sherman
San Diego, CA
dsherman at ucsd.edu

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Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 19:53:26 +0800
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: Brown Malt

>I recently bought 10lbs of Hugh Baird Brown Malt to use in some ESBs? and
>Porters. Does anyone have some idea of typical amounts to use for a five gallon
>batch, assuming 1.050 and the use of 2 Row as a base Malt? 1/2 lb? 1? 2? 5??
>
>Thanks!
>John J. Palmer
>

Watch out for this stuff John, the general experience several of us around
here has had is user beware. The malt has an interesting flavor profile if
its kept subtle in Porter and Brown Ale recipes. I'm talking about less than
1 pound in 10 gallons. Some brewers in my homebrew club pushed the usage up
to several pounds and the flavors were pretty unpleasant. There is also a
problem with haze formation when using this malt, so you might restrict
yourself to darker styles. I use about a pound of it along with chocolate
malt and a little black patent for color, in a 10 gallon Porter and I really
like the result.

Good luck, just sneak up on the quantity to use.

Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1624, 01/06/95