FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: Plastic permeability misconception (Philip Gravel)
  Re: Keg setup (TomF775202)
  yeasts, torrefied, mashes etc. (HOMEBRE973)
  5 litre mini-kegs (richard frederick hand)
  Refrigerator Temperature Control (Bernie Granier)
  re: Culturing Wild Yeast (dsanderson)
  Red Stripe (Brian J. Bach)
  Re: Misconceptions about misconceptions ("Joseph E. Santos")
  Bottle Cappers (ChasHal)
  Cheap fix for leaky soda keg poppets (Jay Lonner)
   ("kevin staub")
  D-C Aromatic Malt (Doug Flagg)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1632 (January 16, 1995) (Gateway)
  Hops for Bud ("Lee Bussy")
  Checker PH Tester Problems (Terry Terfinko)
  Using rice (Keith Frank)
  Recipe requests (Keith Frank)
  labels (Andy Riedel)
  Mini-keg review (Eugene Sonn)
  Honey, oh honey. (Roger Grow)
  RE:low temp ales (Jim Busch)
  Licorice (Pierre Jelenc)
  Sanitary Welding/Water Help (Teddy Winstead)
  single docoction mash (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  infections/licorice (RONALD DWELLE)
  cooler collar (BigBrad)
  Trickle Sparge update, starter, etc... (Bob Bessette)
  yeast / Boddington ale / Unspoken Passion / bottles (Eamonn McKernan)
  Re: Mexicali Rogue (Rick Myers)
  Maccabee clone (Ed Blonski)
  Chipotle peppers (John Dodson)
  Use of 2 Liter Bottles (Chris Strickland)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 15 Jan 95 00:29 CST
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Re: Plastic permeability misconception


===> Joseph E. Santos comments about PET bottles and oxygen permeability:

>	As a happy receiver of vast amounts of brew knowledge I feel 
>obligated to return some of the wisdom to all. I think the discussion of 
>the permeability of 2L plastic bottles can be solved by a little common 
>sense. When a brew is bottled in a closed container it builds up a 
>positive pressure, hopefully :). I would think that the pressure in the 
>container makes the permeability irrelevent because the lower 
>atmospheric pressure could not possibly enter the container unless it is 
>opened or cooled significantly below the saturation pressure of the 
>liquid within the container. In conclusion: A brew can be stored in a 
>container without concern as long as there remains a positive CO2 
>pressure in the container. The only worry I can see is the possibility of 
>reducing the carbonation level in the beer, which would take an extremely 
>long time as experienced by the 2L of soda that I have had in my house 
>for over a year. I hope this clears up some of the discussion, if I have 
>missed something most obvious please feel free to correct me.

No problem, here's the correction.  Although it may seem to be counter
intuitive, your thesis is wrong.  The important consideration here is
the partial pressure of the individual gasses, not of the total
gasses.

Air is approximate 20% oxygen and air pressure at sea level is about
14.7 psi.  Thus the partial pressure of oxygen in air is about 3 psi
(.147 x 20).  Assuming the bottled beer contains no oxygen, there
will be an oxygen pressure gradient of 3 psi across the plastic
bottle from the outside in.  It matters not what the carbon dioxide
pressure on the inside is.  The oxygen will diffuse in over time.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 10:21:34 -0500
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Keg setup

My advice to those setting up for kegs is to use the same size line for beer
and Co2.
I use Johnson 3/16 id hose for both.You should also use quick disconnects
with 1/4 in. flare fittings instead of just hose barbs. This way you need not
to have two different sizes of fittings and hoses.
I carbonate a 20-30 lbs and dispense at 10 lbs.
As foar as fridge size I use an apartment sized fridge that fits two
cornelius kegs as well as about two cases of beer.

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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 12:01:29 -0500
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: yeasts, torrefied, mashes etc.

I have been reading the net for a while but lately have not taken an active
part except via e-mail.  So first an answer, than a few questions.

A few issues back, Chuck M asked about the differences in flavor between
infusion and decoction mashes.  I have recently done both using D-C malts.
 While the infusion is mush easier, I do seem to get a much more rounded and
malty flavor doing a decoction mash.

Has anyone made direct comparisons between Wyeast 1098 (British Ale) and
Wyeast 1028 (London Ale) with regards to flavor profile and body or
maltiness.  I know what the archives says, but I am looking for people who
have direct experience with these.

What does Torrefied mean?  -- i.e. torrefied wheat or torrefied barley?



Had two interesting beers last night at a local Mexican restaurant:
Yong's SPecial London Ale  and Chicago Porter.  The Young's Special London
was fantastic with a great malty flavor and mouth feel with a touch of
diacetyl I love.  The Chicago Porter was quite good.  it had a nice
smoothness and flavor to begin with but ended either a bit too bitter or
slightly astingent.  I have not seen Chicago's beers here before.  Can anyone
give a brief description of the brewery, styles, and their opinion of the
quality of their brews?

A recipe I have from "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home"  (an excellent book!)
uses 1 lb. Golden Syrup (invert sugar).  They sell it at the gourmet store
for $5/lb.  too much in my humble opinion.  Would the collective wisdom of
the digest substitute cane sugar, dry malt extact, or just add more pale ale
malt for this all-grain Fuller's London Pride clone?


Last but not least, I thought the discussion on water chemistry and buffering
were excellent and helped put the HBD back on course!

Andy Kligerman
homebre973 at aol

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Date: 	Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:12:57 -0400
From: richard frederick hand <ac081 at cfn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: 5 litre mini-kegs


Need some advice from those who  have had experience with these kegs. 

I run a beer (& wine) supply store and over a 24 hour period 2 customers 
have had problems with them.

The first one claims that the tap part leaks CO2 when a new cartridge is 
first put in. He finds he has to use a lot of muscle to keep it in place 
and to keep it from leaking until he replaces the cartidge holder. He 
suggests there is a design flaw
in the cartridge mechanism and recommends that there should be a rubber 
washer to hold the cartridge in place, as in the Edme plastic barrels. 
Has anyone else experienced this problem?

The second customer came in with two exploded kegs. He claims they were 
not overprimed, and that his other barrels that held brew from the same 
batch were OK. I suspect that maybe the two kegs were somehow shaken or 
is there a flaw in some kegs? They were primed with the kraeusening 
method, if that matters. Has anyone done tests on the amount of priming 
these kegs can stand?

Rick Hand
Halifax, N.S.


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Date: 15 Jan 95 12:14:12 EST
From: Bernie Granier <74344.1676 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Refrigerator Temperature Control

In HBD #1629, Neil writes:

"I seem to remeber a while ago reading about "add-on" temperature controllers
that can be used to control a refrigerator at optimum lager fermentation
temperature"

I recently purchased one from my local hombrew supply store and it ran me about
$60.  It is a White-Rodgers part no. 37-1104C.  This thing is great (usual
disclaimer - satisfied customer only) and extremely easy to hook up.  All I did
was buy a 10 foot heavy duty extension cord and splice the hot wire into the
screw terminals inside the thermostat.  BTW, the range on the thermostate is
from -30F to 90F.

If you need more info on where to find when, feel free to e-mail me

Bernie Granier (74344.1676 at Compuserve.com)


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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 95 13:02:20 EST
From: dsanderson at msgate.CV.COM
Subject: re: Culturing Wild Yeast

     
      I have a wild yeast that was captured in Alaska 100 years 
     ago. I got it about 15 years ago from a guy who called 
     himself Sourdough Jack and was on a mission to put a 
     sourdough pot in every home. He produced a crude cookbook 
     and distributed starter cultures of the wild yeast. He was 
     given his sourdough pot in the 1940's from an old "Alaskan 
     Sourdough" who had it in his possession for 50 years.
     
      I've occasionally entertained the idea of using it to brew 
     but have never done it. Has anyone tried a wild "sourdough" 
     yeast for brewing?
     
      Regards,
      Dave Sanderson


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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:13:44 -0700
From: bbach at KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU (Brian J. Bach)
Subject: Red Stripe

Fellow Brewers,
        Does anyone have an extract recipe for this Jamaican brew? Thanks
in advance.


Brian J. Bach                                                   "Art is
powerful juju"         
University of Kansas
Department of Art History        
                                                  

                                    



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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 21:27:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos at WPI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Misconceptions about misconceptions

	Thanks Jeff and Domenick,
In my previous post, I put out the idea that the pressure exerted in a 
plastic bottle would prevent the Oxygen permeating into the brew. As an 
engineering student I should have known that common sense does not always 
rule. Thanks to some quick responses I had the opportunity to review my 
basic chemistry and correct the misconceptions I had. To clarify the 
issue, the pressure of the CO2 in the bottle has no bearing on the O2 
transfer between bottle and atmosphere. Because the concentration of O2 
is close to nil O2 WILLpermeate the plastic until equilibrium is attained 
between the concentration in the beer and the atmospheric concentration 
surrounding the bottle.
	I have learned my chemistry lesson of the day!

BTW, If I understand this correctly the pressure in the plastic bottle 
would increase due to the excess O2 pressure. Could this be a cause for 
concern?
	DR J
	Just another happy homebrewer!

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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 22:28:10 -0500
From: ChasHal at aol.com
Subject: Bottle Cappers

Keep an eye out at flea markets & antique shops. I got a fine bench type
capper there for about $9.00. It is adjustable for all sizes of bottles.

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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 20:51:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Cheap fix for leaky soda keg poppets

Comrades,

I've got a couple of el cheepo Firestone soda kegs (St. Patrick's specials). 
One holds pressure okay, but the other one leaks from both poppets.  This isn't
a problem as long as the keg is hooked up for dispensing, since the gas-in and
liquid-out fittings act as an additional check to keep the keg from leaking. 
But the keg won't hold pressure if left "as is" for lagering or conditioning. 

Rather than track down new poppets (which can be a pain for Firestone kegs,
since they aren't one-size-fits-all) I have kludged the following solution.  I
screwed 7/8" acorn nuts over the "connect to hose" ends of two THREADED
quick-disconnects (one red, one white).  I then hooked up the disconnects to
the appropriate poppets, and the acorn nuts keep gas from leaving the keg.  I
had the disconnects just laying around, and the acorn nuts cost $0.28 each --
an economical and effective fix to an annoying problem.  You could probably
come up with a similarly cheap way of modifiying two quick-disconnects with
hose barbs.

I also follow Papazian's practice of adding 5 PSI of gas to the newly-kegged
beer in order to seal the o-ring on the lid of the keg.  I have found that this
can be another source of keg pressure leakage, so beginning keggers beware. 
Sure beats bottling, though.

         Jay Lonner  /  8635660 at nessie.cc.wwu.edu  /  Bellingham, WA
                       "Hey, I ordered a cheeseburger!"

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 00:43:01 CST  
From: "kevin staub" <krstaub at students.wisc.edu>
Subject: 

I was the happy recipient of a homebrew kit for my birthday this year, and
I've been having lot's of fun with it so far.  I'm a big fan of hard cider
and I haven't been able to locate a simple, clear-cut recipe.  Anybody have
one for a dry, sparkling hard cider (similar to Woodcchuck)?

Thanks in advance

Kevin Staub
krstaub at students.wisc.edu

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Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 09:23:00 GMT
From: doug.flagg at chksix.com (Doug Flagg)
Subject:  D-C Aromatic Malt


A While ago I purchased a variety of the new D-C malts.  Among my
purchases was 5 lbs of Aromatic Malt.  Now, after reading Dr. Fix's
excellent article in BT, I know the malt is dark (25.7 Lov), is on
the high side for total protein, and has enough enzymes to convert
itself.  Other than that, I haven't the slightest.

Anyone out there have any experience with this malt?  What sort of
recipes is it used in, and in what quantities?  The article mentioned
"unique flavor contribution"; any comments?

BTW, D-C's Munich malt makes an excellent grain bill addition for a
Northern Brown Ale (heresy???).  Use it in a 3/5 or 4/5 ratio -
Munich malt to Pale Ale malt, plus 1/2 - 3/4 lb of Special B.

Doug Flagg
doug.flagg at chksix.com

- ---
 * OLX 1.53 * All rising to a great place is by a winding stair.

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Date: 16 Jan 1995 01:27:32 -0000
From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1632 (January 16, 1995)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

Robert Hoover,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site.
Check that the name has been entered correctly.)


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Date:          Mon, 16 Jan 1995 06:57:52 +0000
From: "Lee Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Hops for Bud

Newton White asks about hop selection for Bud clones:

Newton, I just polished off 2 kegs of my latest Bud clone with 40 of 
my closest friends over the weekend.  I feen uniquely (and painfully) 
qualified to answer this one! :)

I have found that a variety of hops, including Saaz, Hallertau and 
even Cascade works best.  You will only be using a very small amount 
of each of these (1/8 - 1/4 oz) so bitterness will not be a problem.

This is a very delicate beer so be very carefull and compute your 
IBU's well.

Someone posted some firsthand knowlege about AB's hop stores.... 
perhaps they will grace us again with their wisdom.

- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 8:47:38 EST
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com.apci.com (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: Checker PH Tester Problems

     Several months ago I purchased a Checker brand PH tester 
manufactured by Hanna Instruments.  It seemed to work ok for 
about 2-3 tests, but has since been giving inaccurate readings.  It 
has gotten so bad that I can't even calibrate it anymore.  There 
have been several other postings concerning this instruments 
poor quality.  I have seen this same unit advertised for gardeners 
interested in checking soil PH.  It may be that it works ok when 
the temperature stays below 100F, but it should not have been 
advertised and sold to homebrewers if this is the case.
     I plan to write the manufacturer and return the unit.  I will ask 
for a refund or credit to upgrade the unit.  Does anyone have the 
mailing address for Hanna Instruments?  Any information on how
best to contact their customer service department would be 
appreciated.

Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com


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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 08:09:28 -0600
From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Using rice

****** from Bruce DeBolt *******

Someone requested tips for using rice a couple weeks ago.  I've 
used it as a minor part of the fermentables for a cream ale with 
good success.  These techniques were suggested to me by Norman 
Farrell.  

Basically you boil one lb of rice in one gallon of water for 
about 25-30 minutes to gelatinize it.  Cool to about 165F, then 
add one lb of pale 2-row malt.  The temperature settles in the 
mid-150's.  The fun part is seeing a gooey gelatinous mass 
(boiled rice) convert to a thinner, sweeter solution within 
minutes.   I let it sit for 30-60 minutes for conversion.   Dump 
this in with the rest of your mash, or heat up to mash out temp. 
and add then.   Sometimes I do this the night before to make 
brew day easier, refrigerate, then reheat to mash out temp. the 
next day.

The cream ale recipe:  Grain - 8 lb 2-row pale, 1.0 - 1.5  lb 
rice; Hops - Cascade (6.1a) 0.7 oz. at 60 min., 0.5 oz. at 5 min; 
Yeast - Wyeast 1033 European Ale; OG 1.045-1.050, FG 1.013.  
Mash 2-row at 156-158 for one hour.  A good beer for parties for the 
light lager drinkers.

Dave Miller wrote a short summary about how to work with rice in 
Brewing Techniques last year, but I don't have the reference handy.  
 
I'd like to thank Kelly Jones for the excellent post on low 
alcohol beer last week.


Bruce DeBolt
c/o keithfrank at dow.com

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 08:12:01 -0600
From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Recipe requests

****** from Bruce DeBolt *********

Subject:  Recipe requests - Redhook Winterhook, Otter Creek 
Copper Ale, Anderson Valley Boont Amber

I've had the good fortune of buying these beers while travelling 
but would prefer to make them, the're not available Texas.  
Checked the rec.crafts.brewing FAQ,  but there was no archive, 
also checked the '94 HBD archive.  I recently made the 
Dusseldorf Alt recipe from the latest Zymurgy, turned out great, 
and I think it might be a good recipe to start modifying to make 
Copper Ale.   Any help would be appreciated.  Private mail, I 
will summarize for those interested.   

TIA,  Bruce DeBolt
c/o keithfrank at dow.com

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:32:50 -0700
From: riedel at threshold.com (Andy Riedel)
Subject: labels

For those of you fortunate enough to keg beer or those who don't label
bottles, you can ignore this post.

This may sound like an ad but I think this is the greatest thing since
sliced bread for anyone who suffers through soaking and scraping labels off
of there homebrew.  3M, the folks that make the anoying yellow PostIt notes
stuck all over everything, are now selling that reusable adhesive in the
form of a glue stick.  You can print labels on regular paper, apply a
little glue, and stick to to bottle.  When your done, with your creation,
just pull the label off without soaking or scraping.  And, it leaves little
or no residue on the outside of the bottle.  This stuff is great for anyone
who does label their beers.

Andy



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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:37:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Mini-keg review

Happy New Year to the HBD,
	Since several people have asked about the mini-kegs, I thought I 
would give a review of the system I got for a Christmas present.  I 
received a mini-keg system from the Williams Brewing catalog.  It comes 
with one mini-keg, a stopper/bung to close it up, a combination tap 
system which can use either 8 g CO2 cartridges or a hand pump, a 10 pack 
of the CO2 cartidges, a tub of Williams keg lube and excellent 
instructions written by Williams.  The whole kit costs $60.
	I put an oatmeal stout into the keg and it turned out great.  One 
CO2 charge will dispense about half of the keg.  Then you can use another 
charge or if you are only going to have the beer around for 6 days or so, 
you can use the hand pump.  The protective layer of CO2 provided by the 
first charge kept the second half of my keg good for over a week.  
	The keg is easy to use, but a down side is that once it's 
tapped, you cannot un-tap it.  The bung in the top of the keg has a 
plastic "cork" in the center which you push into the keg when you put the 
tap in.  The tap's intake tube fits in this hole in the bung and the tap 
attaches to the lips on the outside rim of the keg.  If you took the tap 
off, you would have a keg with a 1/4 inch hole in the top. 
	The CO2 dispenser works well. The only trouble I had was when 
early on I wanted to take off the CO2 part, but when I did, pressure 
leaked out from the keg.  This might be my fault since I did not lube the 
1-way valve in the keg as the instructions said I should.  The actual tap 
or dispensing valve works great, I had not leak problems.
	I would definitely recommend this system to anyone who is sick of 
bottling but does not have the money or fridge space for a soda keg 
system.  From what I've seen, the Williams starting set is a good buy, 
but I have seen the actual kegs for less money at my local brew store.  I 
would definitely recommend the combination tap because of it's 
flexibility and relatively low price.

Standard disclaimer: I don't work for or get paid to endorse this 
product, I'm just a happy customer.

Eugene
eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 08:55:43 -0700
From: grow at sumatra.mcae.stortek.com (Roger Grow)
Subject:  Honey, oh honey.


To add one more data point to Bobs question about honey,
I usually add two pounds of honey when I do use it. I
have read (Papazian) that the addition of honey can 
lead to a more complete fermentation. If this is true
then I would avoid using honey to prime with because
it could cause gushers or gernades. Not overcarbonation
from the honey itself, but from the 'more complete'
fermentation it would promote.

Somethingtothinkabout.



Roger (I'm too tired for a clever quote) Grow
The Cave Boy Pico Brewery
Longmont, Co



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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:01:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE:low temp ales

Spencer says:

<Subject: Ale ferm temp / Thomas Hardy's Ale

<In the most recent issue of The Malt Advocate (containing, by the way,
<articles relating a recent tasting of 25 years of Thomas Hardy's Ale: 8
<vintages from 1993 to 1968), the Homebrew column recommends fermenting
<ales at 60-65F, in order to reduce undesirable aromatic components
<(specifically, diacetyl, fusels, and excess esters).  My feeling is
<that this is asking for slow, stuck fermentations, particularly at the
<low end of the range.

It depends.  I routinely ferement Amreican ale yeast at 58-60F pitching
temp, 63-65F ambient, with winter ferments climbing to 64-65F.  Works
fine (despite lots of folks saying this yeast slows down too much at
low temps).  I have also recently done the same using Gales yeast (thanks
Dan!), and it worked fine.  What is essential is the same ol brewers
101: aeriate and pitch adequate cell counts.  If you do this with an
all grain beer there should be little problems, but the results will be
cleaner.  BTW, the Gales was not "clean" at this temp, it was typically
English, minerally, agressive oak and tannin dryness.  Quite something.

Alvin asks about scaling up batch size:

<I've been thinking about moving up from 5 gallon batches and possibly going
<into production at brewpub level.  I was wondering if there are formulas to
<convert 5 gallon recipes up to larger batches (10 barrels and up)?  If so,
<is there software available that will do this?  Is there a listing anywhere
<of used brewpub equipment? etc. etc.

It is my experience that scaling up recipes does not work well at the
10 gal - 1 BBl level, much less what might occur at bigger jumps.  Much
of this is due to efficiency of scale, but much is also due to the
brewery itself.  You have to bite the bullet, take your best educated
guess and finely tune the results.  This is part of the fun of brewing,
if you did it in smaller batches, you should have the skills to replicate
it, but it might take a few brews to get real close.  BTW, this same thing
happens with fluctuations in hop supplies and malt changes that occur. You
always have to be on top of this to be consistent.  For used equip, check
out Cross Distributing in California.
- -- 
Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 11:14:33 EST
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Licorice

"David B. Sapsis" <dbsapsis at nature.Berkeley.EDU> says in HBD #1632 
concerning brewer's licorice:

> Be warned, I believe that this stuff is manufactured from licorice root
> and not anise, and consequently has a distinctive (not totally licorice-y)
> flavor.  

By definition, licorice root tastes like licorice! Licorice *candy* in the
US typically does not taste anything like licorice, and indeed tastes
overwhelmingly like anise. That's because it's made mostly of anise. 
Licorice has a subtle, sweet taste, not the aggressive aromatic punch of
anise. 

A public service announcement brought to you by Pierre "Licorice is yummy,
anise is yucky" Jelenc. 


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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:31:22 -0600 (CST)
From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: Sanitary Welding/Water Help

Hey there.  I hope everyone had a happy holiday season!

OK, prepare for a long post.  First of all, I've been meaning to post this
information about sanitary welding for some time.  This comes from a 
gentleman named Jim Driscoll who is building a brewery in the Northeast
(New Jersey, I think).  He asks that I not give out his e-mail address,
but that I collect any replies that this generates, and forward them
to him.  So, if you have questions, send them my way.  By the way, he
is using a Miller Synchrowave welder to do all this work.  It's a big,
heavy-duty TIG welder with an extremely hefty price tag.

Here it goes (this was all extracted from an e-mail message to me) --

I have been unable to find any book on sanitary welding.  If you do
find something of that sort I would appreciate hearing about it.

Your post didn't give much of a clue as to your knowledge of metal
fabrication, so here goes an explanation that may or may not be
optimally intelligible or useful:

The material I use is type 304, but some prefer 304L for increased
weldability.  I am usually using 12ga, but for a homebrew setup 18ga
is about as thin as I would go to still be easily weldable.  For this
gauge, the mill finish, 2B, should be sufficient for homebrewing, but
you can get a #3 or better yet a #4 finish for the inside if you are
feeling generous.  I would recommend getting the material with
removable protective coating for the inside that will protect the finish
while you build the equipment.  You can cut it away from joints with a
home-made copper blade made by grinding a squashed piece of copper
tube.

Never let anything made of mild steel touch your stainless, and
don't use anything that has touched mild steel on it either (e.g. a
grinding wheel).

The welding method of choice is TIG or GTAW.  Be scrupulous about your
tungsten!  always grind it to a point on a grinding wheel reserved for
only tungsten, and if it it touches the weld puddle immediately cut
off and regrind the tip.


I butt weld joints.  For tanks tack weld the compennents into position
with as close a fitup as possible--it is worth the trouble.  I use
hydraulic spreaders and cargo load straps to bring things into
position/into round.  I then weld the inside with filler rod,
penetrating say 2/3 of the joint, then weld the outside with filler.
I am moving toward backing the joint on the outside with flux or a
consumable weld backing material and then making one pass on the
interior.  Alternatively, you could back it with inert gas, but this
won't support the weld puddle.

After welding I use what I think are called polifan wheels from Pferd
abrasives mounted on an angle grinder to grind/finish the weld on the
interior.  To get a better finish I use flap wheels or non-woven nylon
abrasive wheels mounted on a straight grinder afterwards.  After this
has been done, the weld should not be visible, there sould be no pits
or high spots.  About the only thing you should be able to detect is
a difference in finish in the area of the weld.

For a really fine finish you can send the finished assembly to an
elecropolisher, but unless you are Coors, this is usally reserved only
for yeast propagation plants.

Now here comes the tricky part.  Most people will tell you that you
must passivate the heat affected zone, by which they mean that the
free iron brought to the surface by the welding process is removed and
the protective chromium oxide layer is restored.  My experience is
that if the heat affected zone is finished well with suitable
asbrasive materials the joint will not corrode.  For your purposes you
can probably use it as finished, and if you note any corrosion, it can
be removed with the green hand pads sold at your local grocery store
for dishwashing.  If you insist on passivating it, I can tell you how
it can be done, but it requires using dangerous acids.

You should be aware that "fresh" stainless steel has a taste.  When
commercial brewers bring a new piece of equipment on-line, they first
fill it with finished beer, let it sit a bit, and then discard the
beer.

(End quote)

- ------------

Next, I really, really need some help from you chemist types out there.
I've been using Kentwood spring water for some time now in my brews.
I recenyly got a water analysis sheet from them, but all of the values
are in mg/L and not ppm (parts per million).  In an effort to correct 
the values to ppm, I did the following math --

1.  Compute number of moles of H2O per liter (55.3 mol/L).
2.  Compute number of moles of the given substance to the correct number
of moles for that substance.
3.  Compute the ratio of the two, hoping it would produce the desired
result.

THIS DIDN'T WORK!

What did I do wrong, and what is the correct way to convert between the
two measurements?

Here are some of the values from my water analysis sheet --

Alkalinity as CaCO3		13 mg/L
Calcium				2.2 mg/L
Chloride			2.5 mg/L
Iron				<0.01 mg/L
Magnesium			0.99 mg/L
Sodium				6.2 mg/L
Sulfur, Sulfate			6.2 mg/L
Solids, Total Dissolved		44 mg/L



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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 12:34:33 EST
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: single docoction mash

Can someone recommend a single decoction mash schedule.
This will be my first attempt at decoction and I thought I'd
start with a single, just to get my feet wet.

Thanks and happy brewing

ChuckM

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 12:54:51 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: infections/licorice

     Two notes: Somebody said infections always get worse. Last fall I had 
     what my local brewfriends and I finally diagnosed as a yeast 
     problem--some sort of infection or mutation or perversion. Beer tasted 
     like grapefruit juice after it was done. This happened in two batches, 
     the second batch brewed from yeast recovered from the first batch. I 
     nearly tossed both batches but didn't need the bottles immediately so 
     let them sit. Three months later, the first batch is nearly drinkable. 
     Thus the rule: "Don't give up the shit..."
     
     On licorice, I've not used it a lot, but I think there's quite a 
     difference in potency of the various sticks. One stick I used (in two 
     separate halves) had so much flavor it overwhelmed everything else in 
     the beer. The next stick I used seemed almost flavorless, with a half 
     giving just a hint in a five-gallon batch. I suspected the sticks 
     might have been of radically different ages. I don't know how to 
     prejudge the potency. Someone also said a stick didn't dissolve in the 
     boil. Certainly never had that problem! I just throw the lump in. I've 
     also tried a couple different kids of licorice with no luck--brewers 
     licorice sticks seem to be the only thing that work in porters and 
     stouts.
     Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)

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Date:         Mon, 16 Jan 95 12:00:50 CST
From: BigBrad <BPLUMMER at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM>
Subject:      cooler collar


Hi, all. I recently asked if there was interest in the
freezer 'collar' I installed on my chest freezer. I
received numerous requests asking for a description.
Thus the following:

1st prob:  How to cool soda kegs of homebrew.
2nd prob:  How to cool more kegs than what a normal
           'fridge will hold. (I like to have
           several on tap)
Answer:    Get a chest freezer (no shelves or 'crispers'
           to hassle with) and add an external temp
           controller. Mine is a 15 cu ft model that will
           hold 7 kegs and the 5 lb Co2 bottle. The temp
           controller is a White-Rodgers(sp?) and it says
           it will hold the temp range to 4 deg.
3rd prob:  Now that I am the proud owner of a 7-keg storage
           facility, where do I put the serving taps? Not
           the sides, as the cooling coils are located
           there. I can cut into the lid but must install a
           'standard'(cylinder) to do so. These would work
           fine except the cost is about $70 per and I would
           probably need 3. The 'standards' are sold sans
           taps so I would also have to purchase those. I
           decided there had to be a better/less-expensive
           way.
Answer:

I decided to raise the level of the lid and install a spacer
that could be drilled and fitted with taps. This 'collar' had
to be insulated and would have to have a smooth surface on top
to allow the lid to sit on it and seal well. I also did not want
to attach the collar in such a way as it would become permanent.
My original design called for 2 pieces of plywood with foam
insulation sandwiched between to sit down over the top of the
freezer box. This idea went by the wayside when a friend said
that 2" of oak would provide me with a better looking end product
without sacrificing the insulation factor (oak is denser than
pine). The oak won out. The collar is 6" high and 1 3/4" thick.
there is a 1/4" lip on the outside bottom of each side and front.
Insert inadaquate ascii graphics here:
 ______
|      |
|      |
|      |
|      | collar cross-section
|      |
|      |
|_____||
      ||<--- lip

**** NOTE **** IMPORTANT FACTOID TO BE PRESENTED ****
There is no lip on the back as the outside surface MUST be
flush with the back of the freezer box to allow the hinges
to be reinstalled.
The sides of the collar can be joined as you see fit(pun)
but we did ours like this:

 ___      |--------------------
|   |     |
|   |     |
|   |     |___    Well, you get the idea.
|   |___      |
|       |     |
|       |     |
|       |     |___________
|       |
|       |
|       |
|       |

We used a soft, putty-type gasket material between the collar
and the freezer box. This gives us a good seal that will not
become permanent. We then put the lid w/hinges on top of the
collar. We aligned the hinges to match up with the holes in the
freezer box. Since the hinges were now 6" higher, we had to drill
2 new holes in the hinges towards the bottom were they would
match up with the top hinge holes on the freezer box. This done,
we attached the hinges to the freezer box with the original screws.
We then drilled pilot holes in the oak where the top hinge holes
were and attached using 3/4" wood screws. With the lips on the
collar bottom and the attachment of the hinges to both the
freezer and the collar, it's not going anywhere.
I drilled a hole in the back of the collar to allow the temp
controller probe to be inserted. I then plugged the hole
with insulation. I attached the body of the temp controller
to the collar in the back where it is out of sight but within
easy reach. I will be installing a drip tray by suspending
it from the collar and using double faced tape to attach
it to the freezer box (remembering to leave enough room for
the pitchers that will invariably be used during parties).
I now have a beautiful place for the taps to be mounted and
have not defaced the freezer.  Sorry for the long post but
there seemed to be an interest. Now, back to the actual
brewing ......

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Plummer             \ As I picked myself off the floor, I   /
BMC Software, Inc.       \ realized I should have said, "Ma'am,  /
Houston, Texas           \ that's mighty impressive FOAM you     /
bplummer at sysubmc.bmc.com \ created in my beer glass."            /
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:38:30 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at hawk.uicc.com>
Subject: Trickle Sparge update, starter, etc...

Fellow Brewers,
 For those of you who remember my first all-grain venture and the "trickle 
sparge" which lasted over 2 hours this is just an update. I tasted the beer 
that I made on that day and it has far exceeded my expectations. I thought it 
would take a while before I would make a beer that was as enjoyable as my 
extract brews. Well, my first all-grain beer is MUCH better than any extract 
brew that I have ever made. The major difference is that the all-grain beer is 
much fuller and has more body to it. I am very happy with it and more excited 
than ever about doing all-grain beers. By the way, I made my 2nd all-grain 
beer over the weekend and the sparge was exceedingly quicker this time. I made 
sure that I held down the false bottom with a spoon until all of the grains 
had been doled in. I also used a Bru-Heat for the first time ever. A 
co-worker of mine lent me his and I found it to be very easy to use and very 
convenient in that I could do everything in my kitchen. I typically use a King 
Cooker outside but with the convenience of the Bru-Heat I was able to brew 
into the wee hours of the morning without disrupting my household during the 
day. I am looking forward to seeing how the beer turns out as well. One word 
of caution, if you set the Bru-Heat on the kitchen floor you might want to 
prop it up on two pieces of wood. The heat that it generated actually left a 
small stain on my acrylic kitchen floor. Since the floor is made up of squares 
I can easily replace one of the squares.
 Another thing I tried was doing a starter with the Wyeast. I used a 22 oz 
beer bottle that I disinfected with B-Bright. I boiled up about 10 oz of water 
with a couple of tablespoons of DME and let it cool in the bottle. I popped 
the Wyeast the night before and it had swelled a bit since this was about 17 
hours after I popped it. I then pitched the yeast into the bottle and put on 
an airlock. I made sure everything was disinfected prior to pitching. About 12 
hours later I pitched the contents of the bottle. I did not have any 
noticeable signs of fermentation other than some sediment on the bottom of the 
bottle. As a result of doing the starter I think I cut my lag time from about 
36 hours to 24 hours. I think next time I will make the starter even sooner so 
that there is more visible fermentation in the starter and, as a result, less 
lag time in my primary. I also bought a 6 gallon glass carboy over the weekend 
and it is quite extraordinary to see the fermentation. It is very vigorous and 
it is about 28 hours after pitching. 
 So, all in all, I am extremely pleased with the gains I have made not only in 
knowledge of making beer but what appears to be in the quality of the beer as 
well. All-grain is the way to go. I recommend it highly. I can't wait to do my 
next one...


Bob Bessette (all-grainer and proud of it...)			    
Systems Analyst			    
Unitrode Integrated Circuits Corp   
Merrimack,NH 03087		    
Work-(603)429-8553  FAX-(603)424-2410	
email: bessette at uicc.com


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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 14:46:46 EST
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: yeast / Boddington ale / Unspoken Passion / bottles

There was some talk about not culturing yeast from strong beers. I bought
a liquid yeast for a stout (O.G. ~1065 if memory serves) I wanted to
use it again by culturing from a bottle of the stuff, but am worried about
mutated yeast. Any thoughts?

Tried Boddington ale this weekend from a can. Nice stuff. It has that amazing
creamy head like Guinness. The can had a weird platic contraption in the
bottom for pressure or something. Anyone know what it does? Further, how
would one go about getting a head like that on homebrew? I might even try
my hand at a Boddington imitation if there's a good all-grain recipe out
there. Anyone?

Anyone ever made Papazian's unspoken Passion Imperial stout? 11 lbs of
raspberries in 6 gal of beer. 35 HBU's was way too much. The stuff's
far too bitter. I might try diluting with the remains of my porter. Similar
experiences with bitterness anyone?

Finally, in case anyone's interested in a summary of the bottle deposit
responses, no one had any sure answers. No one knows how much a bottle costs
breweries. Some people said that the breweries might not be collecting the
deposit money anyways (Upon reflection, this seems likely). It was suggested
that the little bumps on the bottom of the bottle were an indication of how
many times it's been re-used. After a certain number of uses, it has to
get melted down because it's no longer sanitary. In conclusion: many many
theories, but no certain answers. Thanks for all the responses!

	Eamonn McKernan
	eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 13:34:26 MST
From: Rick Myers <rcm at col.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Mexicali Rogue
Full-Name: Rick Myers

> (BTW, the chipolte is it's own pepper, no such thing as a 'chipolte
> jalapeno. ;) )

> Chipolte's are tiny peppers with plenty of heat.  I think I would try

I think you are confusing Chipotle (note correct spelling) with Chiltepin.
Chipotle's are indeed smoked Jalapeno peppers, and are NOT "tiny peppers".
Chiltepins, also called (Chilteqpin, Tepin, Bird's Eye) ARE tiny peppers,
and quite hot, too.  They are "wild" peppers and are generally not
cultivated.  They are round or slightly elongated and are pea-sized
or a little larger.

Rick


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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 15:28:12 -0600
From: s851001 at umslvma.umsl.edu (Ed Blonski)
Subject: Maccabee clone

Does anyone know how to make a homebrew clone of Maccabee beer that is
brewed in Netanya, Israel by T.B.I. Ltd.? It's the only beer that my wife
and I both agree on as liking!

e-mail is fine.
TIA,
Ed


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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:44:00 -0700
From: john.dodson at cantina.com (John Dodson)
Subject: Chipotle peppers


 -> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 12:49:00 -0500 (EST)
 -> From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner at umich.edu>
 -> Subject: Chipotle peppers

*Jeff* Renner wrote:

 -> Sorry, John, but I have to disagree.  A chipotle (pronounced
 -> she-POAT-lay) is a smoked, dried jalapeno pepper.  They are
 -> traditionally dried in  this manner because they are too fleshy to air
 -> dry - they just rot.  (See DeWitt, David and Nancy Gerlack, The Whole

Ack!  You are absolutely right Jeff.  Thanks for your kind rebuke!

For some reason, I was describing the 'Chile Pequin' pepper and not a
'Chipolte' pepper.  Don't ask how I got the two mixed up... let's just
say a wild yeast took over my brain (temporarily... I hope).  I'm sure
my description to Mark on measuring these tiny peppers by the tablespoon
was confusing at best!  (Chile Pequin's do have a 'naturally occuring'
smokey flavor... so perhaps that fact addled my brain).

I suppose my advice to Mark would be about the same.  Chipolte's are
bought in small cans (4 oz?).  They are packed with thick, red, smokey
sauce.  I would think throwing in one can at the end of a boil would
give plenty of smokey character to a pale ale.

Thanks again Jeff. ;-)

 ... john.dodson at cantina.com
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 17:36:07 -0500
From: cstrick at iu.net (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Use of 2 Liter Bottles

I've used two liter bottles many times without problems.  The only drawback 
to the bottles is that you pretty much have to drink all of the beer in one 
day.  The beer tends to taste flat after opening and decanting some beer if 
left over
one day.
- --------------
Chris Strickland
cstrick at iu.net


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1633, 01/17/95