HOMEBREW Digest #1635 Thu 19 January 1995

Digest #1634 Digest #1636

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  homebrew suppliers near Chi. (Mike.Vita)
  cider with potassium sorbate, knife'ing the lauter bed? ("Mark J. Donnelly")
  RE: Mini-kegs (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Re: 5 litre mini-kegs (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Yeast culturing vs. freezing ("John A. Maxwell")
  recipe request for S.A. cranberry lambic (Todd S. Taylor x2718)
  hello ("Aaron Keatley")
  CO2 for minikegs / _Berkshire_?? Brewery / Grant's Scot Ale yeast (Bob Paolino               Research Analyst)
  Scaling Up / BT (npyle) <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
  PET Bottles and priming ("peter williams")
  Re: Soda-pop recipies (Jeff Benjamin)
  RE: Inverted Sugar (Arthur McGregor 614-0205)
  Pathogens (dhvanvalkenburg)
  Licorice (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
  Priming Rate vs Package Volume ("Manning Martin MP")
  5L taps/ftpmail (Ronald Moucka)
  Strange fermentation (Stanton_A)
  Beechwood Aging (Steven W. Schultz )
  100% Efficient Mash/Storing Bottled Lager/Acidification  at  PU ("A.J. deLange")
  Re: Your 5L Kegs (George Danz (919) 405-3632)
  5 litre mini kegs (Nigel Townsend)
  heifeweizen recipe? ("mike spinelli")
  2 litre plastic bottles (Bob Kemp)
  PET and CO2 again (ANDY WALSH)
  Black gold Q? (Lisa Higginbotham)
  Re: labels (Shawn Steele)
  Iodophor/phosphoric acid (David Allison 225-5764)
  Cancellation (JerryHamil)
  Re: D-C Aromatic Malt (Jim Grady)
  Chicago Brewing/Oxygen diffusion/Undeliverable messages (Philip Gravel)
  Re: Brewing Techniques Subscript (Goldings)
  Alt and Kolsch H2O Profiles??? (MValentiner)

****************************************************************** * NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 95 07:11:54-0500 From: Mike.Vita at wpo.ftc.gov Subject: homebrew suppliers near Chi. My brother has recently moved to the Chicago area (Naperville), and would like to know of any good homebrew suppliers in the area. I told him I would ask. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: 11 Jan 95 15:21:00 EDT From: "Mark J. Donnelly" <donnelly at nosgis.nr.state.ky.us> Subject: cider with potassium sorbate, knife'ing the lauter bed? Hi y'all Tim Spencer posted to HBD1627 about making a cider batch with preserved cider. I had the same question (basically) but I brewed anyhow and was waiting til I tasted it to ask, but since Tim asked: This was my first try at cider. I had read/heard the advice to get nonpreserved cider, but I couldn't find any, so in a relaxed state of mind I purchased 3 gallons of cider containing "less than 1/10 of 1 % potassium sorbate." I added this to a plastic fermenter with 1 lb corn sugar to bump up the gravity to 1.070 or so, and added a few (I think 5 or 6) campden tablets. The next evening, I pitched a package of Montrachet wine yeast that had been started a few days earlier in a corn sugar/water solution. I also added some yeast nutrient. After about two weeks in the primary, there was no action, but then suddenly the next week I had primary fermentation going. (the temp was 65-70F). I believe the yeast was slowed but not stopped by the preservative, and the wild yeasts were probably slowed also. It never developed any harsh odors during primary. After 1 1/2 more weeks, the primary slowed down. The gravity had only dropped to 1.035. I racked to a 3 gallon carboy, and to my surprise after 18 hours the fermentation was stronger than it ever had been in the primary, blowing out of the airlock twice over the first 3 days (Aeration?!!) After three weeks in the secondary (and an intermediate racking because of the 2" of yeast sediment that had built up) the cider had stopped bubbling and clarified. I bottled a week and a half ago, and I haven't tasted it yet except at bottling. There were no strong off flavors or odors then. Hope this helps. ******* I have a newbie allgrain question from Jim Busch's posting to HBD1627. What is "knife'ing the lauter bed"? ****** Thanks for all the great info so far! Mark donnelly at nosgis.nr.state.ky.us Louisville, KY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 10:00:09 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: RE: Mini-kegs david lawrence shea wrote about RE: Mini-kegs: > The customers who stated that > they didn't overprime, either miscalculated or didn't understand. Or their beer was not fully attenuated when they "bottled." =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 10:03:36 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Re: 5 litre mini-kegs $15.95/10 is steep. I assume you're talking about the 16gram ("big") cartridges. I get 'em for about $10/10. You may have a leak. At "Standard Temperature and Pressure" (0C, 1 atm), CO2 weighs about 2g/liter. Thus a 16g cartridge has 8 liters of 1atm CO2 in it (at 0C). This should be sufficient to push out 5 liters of beer. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 10:03:48 -0500 (EST) From: "John A. Maxwell" <jmax at access.digex.net> Subject: Yeast culturing vs. freezing "De-lurk, Mr. Scott" "Aye captain. Cloaking device de-activated" <cheesy sound effect> Greetings to one and all. I've been reading the digest for just under a year now, and I have my first question which I can't find an answer to just by lurking (A testimony to the quality of the hbd as an information source...). I'm a relatively new brewer (5 batches, extract w/ specialty grains), and am working on improving my batch-to-batch consistency. To this end, I've been digging up information on yeast storage and culturing; also, since liquid yeasts get a hair expensive, using the same yeast culture for several batches should help on both of these goals. After digging around, I find myself with two alternatives which look like they are possible ways to do this: 1. Yeast slants, and 2. Freezing the yeast, as in Maribeth Raines' (pardon me if I just butchered your name, Maribeth...) article in Zymurgy a few years back. >From what I can glean, both give you the ability to store yeast for a long time, and both are going to require me to make a starter and build up a small amount of stored yeast into an active (herd? flock? flocc?) of yeast. Given this, I don't understand why anyone bothers with yeast slants. They seem to involve substantialy more work, for the same results. Is it just the folks with frost-free freezers who do slants, or am I missing something signifigant? TIA, John John Maxwell, jmax at access.digex.net (physically speaking, Baltimore, MD, USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 10:08:44 EST From: taylorts at e5sf.hweng.syr.ge.com (Todd S. Taylor x2718) Subject: recipe request for S.A. cranberry lambic I had this beer and thought it was pretty good. Does anybody have a extract recipe for this or one that is close? Thanks Todd. This I believe is a wheat based beer, am I correct?? Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Dec 94 15:41:00 EDT From: "Aaron Keatley" <keatley at nosgis.nr.state.ky.us> Subject: hello maybe this will work Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 10:30:36 EST From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst <uswlsrap at ibmmail.com> Subject: CO2 for minikegs / _Berkshire_?? Brewery / Grant's Scot Ale yeast D.Jones asks about CO2 cartridges for minikegs: $16 at the homebrew store is truly outrageous. Go to your local sprawlmall and see if they have a Lechter's kitchen/housewares store--they sell them for five bucks. The packaging says they're for making seltzer water. Rick Stark mentions the Berkshire Brewery: Hmmmm.... Berkshire Brewery in South Deerfield. I suppose they can call it what they want, but they sound a little bit geographically-impaired. Western Mass, yes; but the Berkshires, no. And, now, my question: Go ahead, express your horrour at my sloppiness in technique, but I made a batch of starter wort last weekend and had some extra beyond what I was going to bottle or use right away. I noticed the bottom of the bottle of the carefully stored Catamount Christmas '92 I had poured and was a little puzzled, because I thought (know) that Catamount filters their beers. Nonetheless, I sanitised a small jar and dumped the remains of the bottle and some wort in the jar. I didn't really expect anything alive in there. Now here comes the time to express your shock and outrage. I have a collection of starters sitting on the counter, including that jar with a small quantity of wort and whatever settled out in the Cat Christmas 92. No activity, of course. Well, I repeated the previous incident with a Grant's Scottish Ale (a fairly old bottle, too). I don't buy Bert's beers often enough to notice if they're bottle-conditioned (they're usually priced pretty high here and not always in the best shape. It doesn't, however, stop me from getting the Imperial every now and then :-) ), but on a whim I took the foil off that Catamount jar and dumped the dregs from the Grant's. Sloppy technique, yes, though not in the sanitation area, but it was there waiting to be thrown out anyway. Well, two days later, I see that it's alive and looking pretty healthy. Does anyone know what kind of yeast is used in the Grant's Scottish Ale? TIA Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 8:58:01 MST From: Norman Pyle (npyle) <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: Scaling Up / BT Jim Busch wrote: >It is my experience that scaling up recipes does not work well at the >10 gal - 1 BBl level, much less what might occur at bigger jumps. Much I agree Jim, judging from our local micro. The first batch of pale ale (bottled bitter) they produced wasn't a great beer at all. In fact, I thought it too bitter without a lot of other things going for it. After tweaking it a bit, the beer improved dramatically. In fact, they won all kinds of awards in the next 12 months, including a Gold Medal and BOS at the Great International Beer Tasting and a gold medal at the Great American Beer Festival. I talked to the brewmaster and was told the early batches suffered from the upscaling from "kitchen-sized" batches. Also, considering this is a small-time operation, I'm sure they couldn't afford to just dump barrels and barrels of beer until they got it right. Something to consider, definitely. ** Tom Puskar writes: >Several references have been made to a publication called Brewing Techniques >or BT. My local brew supply houses don't carry it and were not very familiar >with it. Could someone post an address and subscription info. I'm sure >there are more of us out there who would like to find out about it. Brewing Techniques has been around now for about a year. I find it hard to believe your local stores don't know about it, they must really be out of touch. BT seems to meet my interests much better than Zymurgy. It is a top-quality publication, IMHO, and well-worth the subscription price. I don't have their number handy, but if nobody posts it, I'll dig it up and post it later. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 12:32:28 AST From: "peter williams" <peter.williams at acadiau.ca> Subject: PET Bottles and priming To clarify my statement about priming sugar and PET bottles. It was my experience that the bottles expanded as the pressure built up inside the bottle. You can convince yourself of this by observing the fluid level in a pop bottle before and after opening it for the first time. This does not occur(significantly) with a glass container. Hence, to get the same pressure, you need to add a bit more priming sugar in a PET than a glass bottle. I was using 1 1/8 cup corn sugar for a 23 litre batch. Along the same line, I felt that I got more carbonation in a large PET than a small PET. I assume this is related to surface/volume ratios. On thing I forgot to mention. If you use PET bottles, don't try to sterilise the caps by boiling. When I did this, the rubber gasket under the cap shrivelled up int a rather hard blob which made a very poor seal. Peter Williams pwilliam at acadiau.ca Wolfville, Nova Scotia Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 10:00:47 MST From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: Soda-pop recipies Doug Lukasik asks about home-made soda pop. Since it's been close to a year since I last posted my ginger ale recipe, I'll reprise it. I've made it many times successfully, with only a few gushers and no exploding bottles. The keys are short fermentation/conditioning time, refrigeration, and consuming fairly quickly. This prevents bombs, keeps the alcohol content low, and retains sweetness. It will have a small alcohol content, so be aware if you're serving to kids, but I've served it to children as young as four with no ill effects. Ginger Ale 1 gallon water 1 pound white sugar (either granulated or corn will do) 1/2 oz cream of tartar 1 oz grated ginger 1 lemon your favorite ale yeast Boil water, stir in sugar, cream of tartar, ginger, and zest of lemon (yellow part of peel). Cool to pitching temperature (<75F), add juice of lemon. Transfer the whole mess to a sanitized fermentation vessel, pitch yeast, and cap with an airlock. Bottle after 48 hours, using strong bottles (champagne or 2l soda pop bottles work well). Let condition at room temperature for 2-3 days, then refrigerate. Helpful Hints: - You can use more ginger (up to 3-4 oz per gallon) to get spicier ginger ale. - The jury is still out on whether it is necessary to peel the ginger. I peel it simply because it's easier to grate that way. - Don't second guess the fermentation time, and don't be worried if the air lock is still perking after 48 hrs. If you let it go past 48 hrs, you will probably end up with somewhat flat, not-very-sweet soda. - Please don't use regular beer bottles. Champagne bottles are much stronger. 2l PET bottles work very well because you can squeeze them to see how carbonated they are, and relieve pressure if you're worried. - Make sure you store the ginger ale in the fridge. This will help minimize any unwanted further fermentation. - Make in small quantities and drink soon. The refrigerating will *minimize* fermentation, not stop it, so eventually you will run the risk of gushers or grenades. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 13:11:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Arthur McGregor 614-0205 <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> Subject: RE: Inverted Sugar Hi All, In HBD #1633 Andy asked about invert sugar. A fellow in my office who has been brewing for years, said that cane sugar can be made into inverted sugar by boiling it for a half hour or so in a mild acidic solution (e.g., in the wort). Maybe some chemist in the HBD could provide some details on other methods and some insight. Hope this helps :) ! Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Lorton, Virginia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 09:41:43 PST From: dhvanvalkenburg at CCGATE.HAC.COM Subject: Pathogens As the an owner of a home brewing shop I am occasionally asked by customers if there is anything that is pathogenic, carcinogenic, or otherwise toxic that can develop in the brewing process. I know as a home brewer with many years experience that this is not possible. I posed this question to Dr. M. Lewis at Davis several years ago who assured the class that there is no possibility of pathogens: However, the question came up again with my insurance agent for the HB supply store who said the underwriters are concerned about product liability. The simple answer "no" has always satisfied me in the past, however, does anyone know the technical answer/explanation to this question? Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Jan 95 12:32:00 -0600 From: mlm01 at intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132) Subject: Licorice There has been some talk about licorice lately, I'd like to add my two beers worth. There is a trick to get the licorice to disolve completely. First, freeze the licorice. Second, when ready to use, place licorice in a very sturdy plastic or mylar bag and pulverize with a hammer or some other blunt object. This causes the licorice to be in fine shreds and it disolves much easier in a good long boil. Mike Montgomery mlm01 at intgp1.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Jan 1995 14:06:08 U From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com> Subject: Priming Rate vs Package Volume Bob Paolino comments on Peter Williams comments on carbonating beer in PETs: PW: "I had to add a bit more priming sugar than I do in glass to compensate for the volume increase of the container." BP: Huh? I assume you're comparing a 12 ounce bottle to a 2l PET... ...you would typically want _less_ concentrated priming sugar in solution when using a larger package. You certainly don't want to prime a kegged brew at the same rate as a bottled one. This has bothered me for a long time. I can see no reason why the volume of the package has anything to do with the amount of priming sugar required to achieve the *initial* desired carbonation level in the finished beer (as long as the volume of the head space is in the same proportion to the volume of the liquid, and then only if the volume of the head space is large compared to the volume of the liquid). I think that the recommendation (by Papazian, e.g.) to reduce the prime for kegged beer are really addressing the dispensing method. The small plastic barrels and the newer 5 L mini's have very short dispense flow paths and therefore very little pressure loss to their taps. Unless the internal pressure is kept low, there will be a lot of foaming. This also means that the carbonation level (volumes of CO2) must be low, which is just fine for the real ales that the early plastic pressure barrels were designed for. The newer 5 L systems are adapted from commercial packages (including, if not specifically for, lagers), which were designed to be consumed quickly, before the beer can lose its carbonation due to the low dispense pressure required. The only way to maintain proper carbonation over time is to hold the appropriate pressure-temperature relationship in the keg, and when this requires a higher pressure than the drop through your dispensing line you have a problem. To get satisfactory dispensing , you must either temporarily reduce the pressure on the beer to nearly match the losses in your line and tap, or increase the losses in the line such that it reduces the pressure to near-ambient during delivery. Either way, you have to make up for the increasing head space with additional CO2, and in the former method you must also replace the vented CO2. MPM Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:43:41 GMT From: rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka) Subject: 5L taps/ftpmail Fellow Brewers, Two quick questions: I would like to obtain a second 5L mini keg tap for parts. Does anyone out ther have one they've given up on? I'd be willing to pay a few bucks for one, especially if the tapping part is still functional (I don't care if the CO2 end isn't). Secondly, can someone help me with ftpmail? I've tried every syntax I can think of, but can't seem to get it to work. My access to the net is through a BBS, and is not "real time" so I'm forced to use the ftpmail method. I'm trying to get a DOS copy of SUDS. I know the archives have moved, but do the archives include only back issues of HBD, or does it include all the FAQ's, programs, etc? Sorry this isn't directly beer related, but I've run out of options. Many TIA .:. :.:. /|~~~~| (_| D | | B | Ron Moucka, Brewmaster `----' DayBar Brewing, Ltd. "It's not so much an indication of our legal structure as it is a reflection of our abilities." rmoucka at omn.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 15:24:00 EST From: Stanton_A <StantonA at po1.atl.bls.gov> Subject: Strange fermentation Hey all! I'm brewing my first batch of beer (got the setup for Christmas) and have a couple questions, if I may. My first concoction seems a bit slow. I'm using Ironmaster Lager Malt Extract, Ironmaster kicker, 1lb corn sugar, and the yeast that came with it. I mixed the yeast in water (later read it should have been hot water, but it was cold water) and added to extract in the carboy (five gallons). It had noticeable bubbles after a day, but didn't have a real real active fermentation until the fourth and fifth days. It never did need the blowoff hose, since it never bubbled further than the carboy neck. We were going through sort of a cold snap here in Georgia and the temperature of the fermentation corner was in the low 60's. The bottle neck now has many brown 'remnants' covering it. When I saw that the head of the fermentation wasn't going to reach the blow-off tube, I replaced the tube with the fermentation lock. Okay, from what I've read (which is everything I can get my hands on), lagers are slower fermenters and are supposed to be fermented at lower temperatures. It's been about two weeks in the fermenter, and I'm about to start taking readings to see if it's ready to be bottled (visible signs of fermentation have only recently stopped). Does it sound like everything is going alright? My concern is that it never bubbled up to the blow-off valve even at the height of it's 'vigorous' stage, and that it took so long to get there. Also, how long should I leave it in the bottles, since it took so long to get to this stage? Also, what's a good source of non-twistoff bottles if you enjoy draining them first? Thanks for your patience with a newbie, and any answers! Art Stanton Stanton_A at po1.atl.bls.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 15:20:06 EST From: Steven W. Schultz <swschult at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> Subject: Beechwood Aging In the 1994 Zymurgy Special issue, there was an article by Ron Page, on using wood chips to age beer. I especially liked the idea that wood chips may contribute to a more complete fermentation, by increasing the surface area of the fermenting tank. Being both lazy and paranoid about sanitation, I am not a candidate for using a fish pump to aerate the wort. But since I have experienced high FGs, and there are Beech trees everywhere in Northern Maryland, I would like to try using wood chips. I would appreciate hearing from brewers who are knowledgeable on the use of wood chips, especially as it may help to achieve a lower FG. Either private or public postings are fine with me. If I receive some helpful private responses, I'll post a summary to the digest. Thanks in advance. Steve Schultz Aberdeen, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:24:38 +0500 From: "A.J. deLange" <pp001837 at interramp.com> Subject: 100% Efficient Mash/Storing Bottled Lager/Acidification at PU Charles Jackson asked about and David Draper responded on the subject of the gravity of a 100% efficient mash. The first issue which needs to be addressed is the definition of "efficient". The simplest one is one in which the efficiency is the fraction of the total weight of the grain which converts to sugar (extract) i.e. 100% efficiency means that one pound of grain converts to one pound of extract. This is, of course, unacheivable as husks, ash etc are not convertible, not all starch converts and some of that which does is left behind in the lauter tun. To calculate the extract for a given efficiency using this definition multiply the weight of the grain (pounds) times the efficiency (expressed as a fraction i.e. for 100% use 1.0) and divide by the amount of wort (not the water which is used to make the wort) in gallons. Call this x. The gravity in degrees Plato is then approximately: P = 11.987*x - 0.54376*x*x e.g. one pound of extract per gallon of wort corresponds to 11.44 Plato. This can be converted to SG units by: SG = 1 + (.015794*P*P + 3.78213*P - 1.265)/1000 which is often approximated in the usual region of interest by SG = 1 + 4*P/1000 I believe this definition is the usual one and a home brewer is usually happy if he acheives 70% with barley malt and maybe 75% with wheat. Commercial operations look for closer to 80%. David Draper commented on the tabulated numbers found in books such as Miller's and Noonan's. These are the expected points per pound per gallon for various malt and sugar types. Using the conversion to SG formula above 11.44P (which corresponds to 1 pound of sucrose - all the sugar gravity tables are based on sucrose - in 1 gallon of wort) gives SG = 1.046 or 46 points per pound per gallon. I don't have any reference materials with me as I write (at work) but seem to recall DME and cane sugar being tabulated at 45 or so with the well modified malts at 30-35. These numbers, thus, have an efficiency built in i.e. a malt that is expected to yield 35 points per pound per gallon contains approximately 100*35/46 = 76% extractable starch and the rest is unconvertable material. To use these numbers find the average points per pound per gallon: Avg = (w1*ppp1 + w2*ppp2 + w3*ppp3...)/(w1 + w2 + w3...)/(gallons wort) where w1 is the weight of the first malt/sugar type, ppp1 is the points per pound per gallon for that type and so on. The expected gravity is then 1 + Avg. The efficiency of the composite mash is then 100*Avg/46. Were the mash 100% efficient one would acheive 46 points per pound per gallon for each malt and SG = 1 + 46*(w1 + w2 + w3 + ...)/(gallons wort)/1000. James Manfull asked about storage of bottled beer which had been lagered at 45F for three weeks. The beer should be stored for 3 months at a temperature as close to freezing as possible. The lagering will take place in the bottles as long as there was a bit of yeast in suspension at the time of bottling. Jeff Renner wrote about acidification at Pilsner Urquell: I don't have all the details but I believe a long (meaning hours) acid rest at 95F is employed. The Plzen water has about 7 ppm (I think) Calcium and this reacts gradually with phytic acid to free hydrogen ions. German brewers use sour mash for acidification and I believe the Biersteuergesetz permits the use of lactic acid as long as it is prepared from L. Delbruckii taken from the malt being used. I tend to discount this idea for PU because a higher temperature is required for the lactobacilli to do their job. A.J. deLange a.j._delange at csgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 15:45:16 EST From: danz at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz (919) 405-3632) Subject: Re: Your 5L Kegs Steve, I just answered this for Kevin below. I'll also post to Brew Digest so that others will benefit too. George Danz - ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From danz Wed Jan 18 15:42:00 1995 To: Kevin_D_Peffley at ccm.ch.intel.com Subject: Re: Your 5L Kegs Content-Length: 3025 Kevin, The foam may be due to not backing off on the priming strength when kegging versus bottling. I've heard a number of people say they have gotten too much pressure when using 2/3 to 3/4 cup corn sugar per 5 gals. when putting this mix in kegs. I would tend to agree, but I've never had destroyed kegs as some have stated they got. As to the kegs, you can get these anywhere (any brew shop) and even the grocery stores sell some beer in these kegs. The bungs which come with them are bigger than those normally sold at brewshops, and you have to be superman to get 'em out when the keg's depleted. Nevertheless they work quite well in other respects. The tap itself was purchased from BrewBetter Supply; 919-467-8934 (John and Mary Jo ... proprietors). BrewBetter has very fair prices and I highly recommend them. You can tell 'em I sent you. They are located in Cary, NC, near Raleigh. I have been to other brew shops too and have seen only German made taps. The cylinders, are another story, however. You should buy the cylinders made for the tap. John and Mary Jo carry ONLY the correct cylinders (10 oz) so you can't get it wrong. The other brew shop I have visited tried to sell me the crappy grey colored 8 oz. variety which fit God knows what kind of equipment. Maybe some sort of American made selzer bottler, perhaps. I use almost no bottles any more. I batch in 10 gal. brew lengths and only bottle about one case, mini kegging the rest. Very soon I'll be putting half my batches in 5 gal Korny kegs, with about 2.5 gals going in 5 L party kegs and one case of bottles. I only use bottles for taking to friends who are not brewers and for gifts, occasionally. For parties on my premises, I use party kegs and the Korny setup. 16 oz. cylinders cost about $1.05 to $1.10 each at John's, so it's about 11 bucks a box. You can get amost one and a half -party kegs pushed with only one 16 oz. cyl. Before with the grey buggers, I'd be lucky to drive one keg with 2 to 3 cylinders. The problem with the grey buggers is that they puncture the seal in the cyl. before the rim of the cyl. seals against the rubber (maybe plastic) washer in the tap. About half or more of the cylinder's contents escape before you can get the damn thing drien home. You have to be damn fast twisting it home to avoid leaks. In fact it is impossible not to lose quite a bit. So I figure you have only about 2 oz of CO2 left after the thing is put together. Good luck -> From Kevin_D_Peffley at ccm.ch.intel.com Wed Jan 18 11:32:20 1995 -> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 08:32:01 PST -> From: Kevin D Peffley <Kevin_D_Peffley at ccm.ch.intel.com> -> To: danz at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com -> Subject: Your 5L Kegs -> Content-Length: 239 -> -> -> Text item: Text_1 -> -> George, -> -> Please tell me, where did you purchase your German made canisters and -> tap? -> -> I'm very disappointed and frustrated with my mini-keg system. I primed -> according to the directions, but all I get is foam. -> -> Kevin -> - ----- End Included Message ----- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:15:24 GMT From: nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend) Subject: 5 litre mini kegs on 15 Jan 1995 13:12:57 richard frederick hand writes Need some advice from those who have had experience with these kegs. <snip. The first one (customer)claims that the tap part leaks CO2 when a new cartridge is first put in. He finds he has to use a lot of muscle to keep it in place and to keep it from leaking until he replaces the cartidge holder.<snip> Has anyone else experienced this problem? Maybe. I use 40 litre Edme barrels. The first time I used one I found similar problems with leakage of pressure. I then smeared vaseline over all seals and joints. I still do it up tight, and it has solved the problem. One cylander (soda siphon bomb/bulb) now does mw for the whole barrel normally. I have noticed a a light oily looking film on the top of the contents when I have finished the barrel, but it is not apparant in the glass or in the flavour. I put the vaseline on from a tube (hopefully more sterile than a a jar) and then soak all the bits in Sodium metabisulphite as part of the cleaning process, immediately before use. (No commercial interests in vaseline, however admire its adaptability) - -- Nigel Townsend nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au Tasmania, Auastralia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:45:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> Subject: heifeweizen recipe? I'm looking for a decent extract-based recipe for a Heifeweizen such as Weinhenstephan. I've made a couple batches but they haven't turned out real well. Thanks, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 18:16:44 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Kemp <BOBKEMP at delphi.com> Subject: 2 litre plastic bottles On 17-JAN-1995 03:37:03.9 homebrew said to BOBKEMP > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 17:36:07 -0500 > From: cstrick at iu.net (Chris Strickland) > Subject: Use of 2 Liter Bottles > I've used two liter bottles many times without problems. The only >drawback to the bottles is that you pretty much have to drink all of >the beer in one day. The beer tends to taste flat after opening and >decanting some beer if left over > one day. I've never used 2 litre bottles for homebrew (too worried about the pressure). But when I was a kid, my mother stored the plastic bottles upside down to keep the CO2 from escaping. Maybe this would work for you. Bob Kemp - Miami, FL -- Where criminals walk about freely "Blessed are the Pessimists; for they hath made Backups."--Exasperated Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 11:11:51 +1100 From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au> Subject: PET and CO2 again Joe says: >Thank you all for clearing up the PET issue, now I feel guilty about my >lack of contibution! On the contrary. There seem to be a number of differences of opinion on this subject. Although there has been a qualitative description of how O2 can diffuse across PET bottles, nobody has answered the questions, "How long can I leave my beer in a PET bottle before it stales?" and, "How does this differ from glass?" Brent says: >Even though the laws of diffusion say that there is a force to >equilibrate the concentration of each individual compound across >a barrier, the force created internally by the fermentation >reaction is greater. ...<snip>.... Furthermore, if the O2 diffusion is >slow, the CO2 pressure will build up in a matter of days so that >the ability to uptake other gases would be greatly reduced in a >very short time, assuming of course that all seals are adaquate. If this is true, then O2 will *not* diffuse across. Or you could argue that the rate of transfer of gases equalises in both directions keeping the bottle pressure approximately constant (ie. CO2 slowly escapes overall, O2 slowly enters. Remember all gases will transfer bidirectionally, but the rate is greater in one direction than the other. What is important is the *rate* at which this actually takes place). In the meantime the O2 that enters could oxidise the beer! It is difficult to ignore those pragmatists who say they have bottled the same beer side by side in PET and glass, and noticed a slight difference after 3 months. In any case, I'll try the experiment myself and report back later. On a similar line, how about soda kegs? They have a rubber o-ring that is bound to be more permeable to O2 than PET! (consider a helium balloon and how quickly the helium escapes. I know the helium atom is smaller again, but you get the idea). I think this is an issue most of us need not worry about too much, especially if we heed Bob Paolino's advice often enough! If I make a beer for keeping (eg. barley wine), I put it in glass anyway. Andy W Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 19:21:48 EST From: Lisa Higginbotham <LHIGGI at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Subject: Black gold Q? John- You didn't mention what the brew volume for the Black Gold Stout is-I assume it 's for 5 Gallons? Lisa Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 10:49:46 -0700 From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org> Subject: Re: labels My personal method of affixing labels uses a common kitchen ingredient: Milk. I put a little tiny bit of milk in a saucer and then wipe the back of each label in the dish and stick it to the side of the bottle. Actually this method is swiped from a friend of mine, Chris Coslor, but it works. For reasons unknown to me the milk doesn't even make any nasty smells if left unrefrigerated on the labels. (I suspect that there just isn't very much milk on the labels.) These labels come off very easily in water (and you need to wash bottles anyway before reusing them.) - shawn Shawn Steele Information Systems Administrator Association of Brewers (303) 447-0816 x 118 (voice) 736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax) PO Box 1679 shawn at aob.org (e-mail) Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info at aob.org (aob info) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 16:53:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM> Subject: Iodophor/phosphoric acid A while back I believe there was a thread regarding types of iodophor santizing reagents which contained phosphoric acid. I picked up some Mikroklene from EcoLabs which contains the same iodine complex as the BTF iodophor that I get from the local HomeBrew shop. The titratable iodine between the two products is basically the same, but the Mikroklene contains 6.5% phosphoric acid. For those of you in the know -- Is there a problem with this product because of the phosphoric acid? Is there anything else to be aware of? TIA - David (allison2 at gene.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 20:32:26 -0500 From: JerryHamil at aol.com Subject: Cancellation Please take me off of your distribution list. Thank you JerryHamil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 20:49:24 EST From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: D-C Aromatic Malt In HBD #1633, Doug Flagg asks about experience with DeWolf-Cosyns Aromatic malt. I just brewed a batch based on a recipe from the CAMRA book "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home." I substituted the Aromatic malt for the Amber malt in the recipe and it is probably the best beer I have made to date. The recipe was from the Smile's Brewery Bitter and what I put together was as follows: 3.8 kg D-C Pale Ale Malt 420 g D-C Aromatic Malt Single temp infusion mash at 150 deg F; mash out at ~ 160 (got tired of trying to get the temp up). Boiled for 90 minutes. Hopping was: 66 g. East Kent Goldings at 4.9% alpha acid for 90 minutes 12 g. East Kent Goldings at 4.9% alpha acid for 15 minutes Also, added 1 Tbs rehydrated Irish Moss for the last 15 min of the boil. O.G. was 1.052; the target was 1.037. It was then that I realized the recipe was for 23 liters (~6 U.S. gallons). I fermented it out with Wyeast 1028 (London Ale) and added ~1 gal of boiled & cooled water at bottling to bring it more in line with expectations. So, it seems to work very well in a bitter as about 10% of the grist. I has a nice amber color; flavor is predominated by the hop bitterness but is rounded out nicely by the good malt flavor (IMHO). - -- Jim Grady grady at an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 21:56 CST From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Chicago Brewing/Oxygen diffusion/Undeliverable messages ===> HOMEBRE973 at aol.com asks about Chicago Porter: >Had two interesting beers last night at a local Mexican restaurant: >Yong's SPecial London Ale and Chicago Porter. The Young's Special London >was fantastic with a great malty flavor and mouth feel with a touch of >diacetyl I love. The Chicago Porter was quite good. it had a nice >smoothness and flavor to begin with but ended either a bit too bitter or >slightly astingent. I have not seen Chicago's beers here before. Can anyone >give a brief description of the brewery, styles, and their opinion of the >quality of their brews? I assume you're referring to Big Shoulders Porter brewed by Chicago Brewing Company. Chicago Brewing is a small, family run brewing operation. Our brew club took a tour of it a few months ago during a pub crawl. They have a large, commercial size lauter tun and kettle along with a number of fermentation and settling/aging vessels. They purchased the assets of a New York brewing company and moved the equipment to an old factory located in Chicago. They also brew Legacy Red Ale, Legacy Lager, and Heartland Weiss. Their ale is more malty than hoppy and was brewed long before the current craze of red beer took off. I personally like all their beers. ===> Joseph E. Santos asks about oxygen permeation in plastic bottles: >BTW, If I understand this correctly the pressure in the plastic bottle >would increase due to the excess O2 pressure. Could this be a cause for >concern? At most, the pressure rise would only be about 3 psi, the partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere (14.7 psi x 0.2 (20%)). At the same time oxygen is diffusing in, CO2 is diffusing out. The change in the internal pressure would be determined by the relative rates of O2 and CO2 diffusion. ===> Is it me or does every issue of the HBD have one of these messages: >Date: 16 Jan 1995 01:27:32 -0000 >From: Gateway at foxmail.gfc.edu (Gateway) >Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1632 (January 16, 1995) > >Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > >Robert Hoover,George Fox College (The name was not found at the remote site. >Check that the name has been entered correctly.) - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 23:19:43 -0500 From: Goldings at aol.com Subject: Re: Brewing Techniques Subscript Someone, sorry but I'm away from that HBD, asked about Brewing Techniques Magazine, or BT. BT is a magazine dealing with the art and science of small-scale brewing. IMHO it is a very fine mag, more oriented toward the technical side of advanced homebrewing and the pico/micro brewing than say most of the lame issues of Zymurgy. It is published six times a year. Subscription rates are US $30/year within the US, US $35/year in Canada, and US $45/year throughout the rest of the world (airmail) Subsription info: P.O. Box 3222, Eugene, OR 97403, USA To order your subscription by plastic, call toll-free 1-800-427-2993 or E-mail to btcirc at aol.com The last time I checked, they were adding an additional back issue of your choice when you subscribed. Hope this helps. Dudley Leaphart || The mud elephant wading through the sea leaves no tracks Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 11:37:30 -0600 From: MValentiner at WinterNet.Com (MValentiner) Subject: Alt and Kolsch H2O Profiles??? Does anyone have water profiles for Alt (Dusseldorf) and Kolsch (Koln) styles? Does anyone have references for this info? Please reply via email. - -- Michael Valentiner MValentiner at WinterNet.Com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1635, 01/19/95