FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  mash efficiency and sealants (ANDY WALSH)
  Cider recipe (richard frederick hand)
  UK-oriented Homebrewing Newsgroup - Request for feedback. (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Assorted Replies ("Robert W. Mech")
  Freezing yeast (Ed Hitchcock)
  RE: Bottle Sources, PET and O2, Labels (Arthur McGregor 614-0205)
  Splashing Bleach (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
  Harvesting Irish Moss ("kendall coolidge")
  Isinglass and keg aging/acid rests/knifes (Jim Busch)
  Yeast preservation, and sanitizers. (Pierre Jelenc)
  5l keg foaming problems (david lawrence shea)
  Irish Moss ("geo")
  Stupid questions: sparge water/lightstruck?/cardboard (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  RIMS and Steam Injection (Peter_Murphy-G10826)
  Chicago Brewing Ain't "Small" (Nimbus Couzin)
  C-keg fittings (Marla Korchmar)
  RE: Churchkey? (Christopher) <cwjones at microsoft.com>
  Lucifer, cider, 2l bottle caps (Jeff Benjamin)
  baking bottles ("Todd Orjala")
  Req: Grand Cru recipe puleeeeze ("Robert Waddell")
  Yeast culturing/PET caps (David Draper)
  Hydrometer Calibration (Koscal Mike)
  Head (Richard Buckberg)
  Re: Capping 2L PET bottles. (Sean MacLennan)
  Chidago area homebrew supplys (Philip Gravel)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 11:00:32 +1100
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: mash efficiency and sealants

A.J. Delange comments on mash efficiency.

>The first issue which needs to be addressed 
>is the definition of "efficient". The simplest one is one in which the 
>efficiency is the fraction of the total weight of the grain which converts to 
>sugar (extract) i.e. 100% efficiency means that one pound of grain converts 
>to one pound of extract. This is, of course, unacheivable as husks, ash etc 
>are not convertible, not all starch converts and some of that which does is 
>left behind in the lauter tun. 
>I believe this definition is the usual one and a home brewer is usually happy 
>if he acheives 70% with barley malt and maybe 75% with wheat. Commercial 
>operations look for closer to 80%. <snip>
>DME and cane sugar being tabulated at 45 or so with 
>the well modified malts at 30-35. These numbers, thus, have an efficiency 
>built in i.e. a malt that is expected to yield 35 points per pound per gallon 
>contains approximately 100*35/46 = 76% extractable starch and the rest is 
>unconvertable material. To use these numbers find the average points per 
>pound per gallon:

Indeed this is one version of "efficiency" and is the one used by commercial
brewers (also called "extract"). Unfortunately home brewers often talk about 
"efficiency" meaning what proportion of the theoretical maximum extract yield 
they get from their mash. ie. Given pale malt can possibly yield 35 
pts/lb/gallon
and a homebrewer gets 30, his "efficiency" can be described as 30/35=86%
(homebrewers' efficiency), or 30/46=65% (extract). This can be very confusing
and I am not sure when or why homebrewers first started using this measure.
(I admit my guilt in using this definition also!)
I certainly know that with the SUDS software (available from the archive site
via FTP), the "efficiency" square actually refers to homebrewers' efficiency,
and not "extract".
"Homebrewers' efficiency" is a pretty sloppy sort of quantity. What we really
mean by this is "how efficient our mash technique is compared with Dave
Miller's", since the numbers he gives (eg. 35 pts/lb/gallon for pale malt)
are the actual numbers he achieves in his brewery. In theory these numbers
should vary all over the place, depending upon the exact grain you use
(eg. protein content of pale malt), but in practice everyone seems to use
35 (or 36) pts/lb/gallon pretty universally! Even so, once you know the
"homebrewers' efficiency" of your setup, you can plug this number into
SUDS and get a pretty good estimation of the starting gravity of the next
batch you are planning to brew.
I hope this clarifies people's worts!
****************
Nigel Townsend comments on the use of vaseline to seal kegs.
I would recommend glycerol (available from supermarkets). This
seals well and is less messy. Some also use this to help prevent
damaging yeast when freezing, so it is a "brew-friendly" product.


Andy W.










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Date: 	Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:48:45 -0400
From: richard frederick hand <ac081 at cfn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: Cider recipe


Someone was recently asking for a cider recipe on HBD. I have one that 
makes a sparkling, dry (& strong) cider. Rather than tie up the HBD with 
cider news, please use e-mail.

Rick Hand


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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:04:01 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: UK-oriented Homebrewing Newsgroup - Request for feedback.


20th Jan. 1995

     This has been posted to The HomeBrew Digest and to
the Usenet Newsgroup rec.crafts.brewing.

     This is a request for feedback on the subject of
setting up a UK-oriented Newsgroup under the uk.* prefix
of Newsgroups.

     As a UK Homebrewer I have found both HBD and r.c.b
to be invaluable and enjoyable aids to improving my
Brew and in meeting new Net-friends on both sides of the
Great Pond. In saying that, however, I and other UK
Homebrewers feel that the orientation of both HBD and r.c.b
tends toward that of US brewing and it is sometimes
difficult for us to find answers to questions that are
heavily oriented toward UK matters.

     There can be no mistake that there are many differences
in the history, styles, methods, ingredients etc. between
UK and US brewing and there is a feeling that a UK-specific
Newsgroup would be useful to UK Homebrewers as well as
non-UK Homebrewers that are interested in UK-specific
brewing matters.

     For this purpose I have been investigating the subject
of creating such a Newsgroup under the uk.* prefix. This
is not an official Usenet prefix but is carried by many
UK News servers and MAY be available outside of the UK but
this is not clear to me at present.

     The uk.* Newsgroups work, to an extent, like the alt.*
Newsgroups in that they are created and maintained in a
less formal way. There is no need for voting as such but
a formal proposal must be submitted and discussed before
the group can be created and it is for this reason that I
am asking for feedback on the subject.

     I am asking anybody who has any opinions on this
subject to EMAIL ME DIRECTLY at...

     B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk

 ...and let me know what you think of the idea. I am proposing
that the name should be uk.rec.crafts.brewing but would like
to hear other ideas. There is already a uk.rec.* prefix and
the name would also indicate its parallel to r.c.b.

     I will attempt to post this request a few more times over
the next couple of weeks in order that I can get the attention
of as many people as possible - apologies for the bandwidth
used - I promise to restrict it to a minimum number of postings.

Thanks for your time,

Cheers,

     Brian Gowland
     Surrey
     England


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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 04:23:06 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net>
Subject: Assorted Replies

Several Replies Today, just one post to save bandwith... :-)

For those of you intrested in BT (Brews Technologies), Ill give my short 
expierence with it.  I emailed them on the 19th, about 4am, and by 5am, 
had a response that they were sending me an issue, and billing me.  How 
nice of them eh?  So for those of you Credit Card impared, email them. 
btcirc at aol.com.  No affiliation, just satisfied.
- ---
Next somone mentioned in a "p.s." that they were worried that they spend 
too much time worrying about what they need to buy building their 
homebrew equipment, vs. actualy brewing beer.  Hey, it happens to 
everyone I think!  I dont know one person that has "everything" there is 
to brew beer. Somone always wants a cooker, PH tester, kegging setup, or 
god knows what else.  I know im that way all the time, my wife never 
hears the constant saying "When I get a few extra bucks, im going to go 
buy a...".  My rule of thumb is, lacking equipment or not, if I run out 
of beer, i brew more. :-).
- ---

Now, my questions...

First off, there seems to be only a few brewclubs in the chicagoland 
area.  None of which seem very local to me.  I have been thinking over 
the idea for a while of getting some people together, and starting our 
own club.  Has anyone here started thier own brewclub?  Whats involved?  
Is it a good idea to have somone thats a "Brew God" in the club?  I 
consider myself a rather advanced all grain brewer, but *FAR* from 
knowing all there is to know about beer brewing...  Can anyone help me 
with this?

Secondly, im just now conisdering entering my beers into competition.  I 
never really wanted to before, simply because I found it more fun to brew 
something I like to drink, rather than "To Style".  Anyhow, U BREW 
Midwest BBS has a list of upcomming events and some are "AHA Club Only 
Events".  Obviously I know what AHA stands for, but what I dont know, is 
there a AHA "club" that you nationaly join?  If so, can somone send me 
info on it?

Lastly, ive been consindering the use of "Mesquete" wood chips in beer.  
Not smoking, but putting them in a hop bag in the boil.  When Im grilling 
during the summer, I have to soak the woodchips in water before putting 
them on the hot coals.  The water becomes very "aromatic" so Im thinking 
that in the boil, the aromatic sent and mesquete flavor will pass off 
into the boiling wort.  Ive never tasted the water after the wood chips 
have soaked in it, so I dont know what sort of flavor is passed on... Has 
anyone tried this?  Ive considered smoking grains, but after I found out 
whats involved, Ive decided that I want no part of it :-).  So  Will this 
work?
 
Welp, thats my 2 beers for today.  
Hoppy Brewing.

Rob




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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:07:00 -0400 (AST)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Freezing yeast


	Someone commented in today's hbd that they had trouble freezing 
yeast.  Yes, having a -70 freezer helps, but it can be done at home.  One 
trick is freezing the beasties quickly.  Most of us don't have access to 
liquid nitrogen for snap freezing, but try this:  place a bottle of 
alcohol (alcool, white lightning, strong vdka, whatever) in the freezer a 
few days ahead of time.  When you want to freeze the yeast, pour a little 
of the -18C alcohol into a small pan (also pre-chilled in the freezer), 
and immerse the vial of yeast-glycerine in the alcohol.  This will freeze 
the culture much more quickly than just placing it in the freezer to be 
air-cooled.  Fast freezing creates smaller ice crystals, which cause less 
damage to the yeast cells.  Some intrepid homebrewers might try dropping 
some dry ice pellets into iced 95% ethanol to cool it down even further, 
which will more closely approximate the freezing capacity of a -70 
freezer.  Once it's frozen storage at -18C shouldn't be a problem.

	ed 

   ----------------
ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca
the Pick and Fossil Picobrewery
brewers of Ed's Paleo Pale Ale and Right Coast IPA


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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:25:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Arthur McGregor 614-0205 <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: RE: Bottle Sources, PET and O2, Labels

BOTTLES
A friends father brews beer, and says a good source of returnable bar bottles
is the American Legion.  He claims they will sell you cases of them in the
heavy duty cardboard cases for the deposit value ($2.00 in Virginia).  I've
never actually tried this, though.  Another source would be local restaurants. 
Talk to the manager about non-twist top non-returnable bottles they through
out.  I would guess that an offer of a six pack of homebrew would help :). 
**********
PET AND O2
An experiment that could be done on PET bottles and permeability of O2 which
could answer some 'inquiring minds.'  Some volunteer with a "carbonator" or
such device, who has access to bottled O2 could fill a PET with O2 and let it
sit for a few months.  Might also require a pressure gauge, or a precision
scale, and basic knowledge of atmospheric gasses to determine if O2 has
diffused.  Just a thought.
**********
LABELS
I recently bought some AVERY Multi-Purpose Labels (standard disclaimer).  They
are 1/2" X 3/4", and fit nicely on bottle caps (no removal required besides
opening the bottle :).  I can create a 'beer label' table using my word
processor software, and by adjusting the font size, table spacing, and line
spacing create printed bottle labels that have the style, date bottled, grain
vs extract, ale vs lager, etc.  I simply peel them off and stick on the cap. 
The beer cap labels don't come off if they get wet (in a cooler for an outing,
etc.).  The only difficult part is creating the first table, and messing
around with font size, line spacing, etc.  Once completed, just use the search
and replace function to change the style, bottling date, etc.  I print the
table on a sheet of paper, use double sided stick tape and position and attach
the blank labels over the previous print, and re-feed the paper back through
my dot printer.  This may not be the best method, but I figure I have years to
brew :) and play around till I figure the 'perfect' method for me. 
Good Brews
Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Lorton, Virginia



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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:54:21 -0500
From: jucks at cfaft4.harvard.edu (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
Subject: Splashing Bleach

I have a solution to Harry's problem with splashing bleach.

Don't pour it.  I am similar to Harry in that I am an accident prone male 
who can spill any liquid I put in my hands (and I am a trained laboratory
scientist).  My way around the problem is to siphon the bleach solution 
out of the carboy.  This way, I let physics work for me, and I sanitize my
racking cane and siphon hose at the same time.

Ken


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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 09:23:26 
From: "kendall coolidge" <kendall_coolidge at polymer.com>
Subject: Harvesting Irish Moss


          This is in reply to Kevin Fons' question as to whether
          anyone grows their own Irish Moss.  I have been "harvesting"
          my own Irish Moss for several years now since it grows quite
          abundantly on the rocky coastline of New England.  Irish
          Moss ( or Chondrus crispus) is a "red" marine algae or
          seaweed that is found from New Jersey to Nova Scotia
          attached to rocks, shells, or wooden structures along the
          shoreline.  It probably grows along the Pacific NW too, but
          I'm not sure.  In appearance it is reddish-brown to purple
          in color and grows in dense, matted clumps.

          Individual tufts are about the size of a tennis ball or
          smaller.  You can pick it fresh or collect what washes up on
          the shore if it's in good condition.  I carefully clean,
          rinse, then air dry the plants before storing in a plastic
          container. I grin in a coffee mill before use.

          Given the price locally, I think I save about a dollar a
          batch!

          Hope this is useful.
          Kendall

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:26:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Isinglass and keg aging/acid rests/knifes

<From: Joe Boardman <boardman at amber.colorado.edu>
<Subject: if you ferment in Sankeys, how do you clean them?

<I am in the process of scaling up a bit, from 10 gal to 1 bbl 
<batches.

What are you using for your kettle, mash tun and burner?

>From my past experiences with carboy fermentation, and an examination
<of the Sankeys, it seems like it would be impossible to clean the
<"grunge" (nice technical term, huh?) from the inside top of the keg.

TSP, and caustics are the cleaners of choice.  You need to make or buy
a dental mirror, so you can see inside the kegs.  Or, just cut the 
damn top off and make it an open fermenter.  You can use a wok lid as
a cover, or nothing at all.  I think you may want to consider something
more suited to a 1 BBl ferment than sankeys.  Depending on your lauter
tun design, it may be capable of doubling as a fermenter, provided
you have a SS tun.  Food grade trash cans are the cheapest solution.
You might consider having a simple cylinder made to ferment in.  Something
in the 2 feet diameter, 2 feet high, or slightly wider works well.  If
you have something made, think about a kegging port on the side, just 
up from the yeast.

<P.S. Has anybody else suffered the problem of spending more time working on,
<talking about and building their homebrewery than actually brewing?  If I don't
<actually brew soon, my brew buddies will leave me for good. I'm starting
<to think my hobby is building a brewery, not brewing beer.

This stage will pass!  Making a 1 BBl brewery is a big challenge and
sometimes a hassel, but its worth it when you are "done".  Of course,
breweries are never "done", you gotta tweek em all the time!  Good luck.

"Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> says:

<Here's a question regarding our plan form clarifying a brown ale batch
using isinglass..

<We currently have a 5gal and a 6 gal carboy each finishing up a ferment
<from a single 11 gal brown ale batch.  Our plan is to rack these both into
<a single 1/2 bbl keg with the recommended charge of liquid isinglass.
<We then propose to put an airlock on the keg (just in case) and cool
<from the current 64F to maybe 45F and hold there for about a week.

<Then, we propose to rack again into our dispensing keg and force
<carbonate there preparatory to...well, drinking.  The thinking here is as
<follows: cool to assist in precipitating out the junk, and rack again to
<avoid having so much sediment in our dispensing keg.

I think you are missing a few things.  First of all, a brown ale might
not need finings unless you plan on cask conditioning it, or just priming
in the keg.  If your plans are to rack to a secondary, then to a keg,
then force carbonate, why bother using isinglass at all?  If you have
a real sticky yeast that refuses to flocculate at all, maybe.  Also,
why the airlock in a unprimed keg?  The keg can withstand 60 PSI, and
i doubt you will make this much pressure in a secondary without priming.
Also, an airlock on a vessal that is reducing temp will cause the fluid
in the airlock to be sucked into the keg, not good!  My advise is to 
rack into a secondary if desired, add isinglass here if you have to, 
then rack into the dispensing kegs and force carb.  A better idea is 
to go stright from the primary to the corny kegs, add sugar and isinglass
and let it finish the secondary fermentation in the cask, ala cask 
conditioned ale!  To do this right, you need to cut 1/2" off the bottom
of the liquid dip tube, so the isinglass stays in the keg. Also, prime
with 1/2 the normal sugar amount.  

<We 'think' we detect a slight sulfur smell emanating from the
carboy airlocks--and I suspect autolysis->diacetyl

Why do you think this?  Sulpher is H2S.  If its still fermenting, I 
doubt you have an autolysis issue, this takes time.  Some yeasts 
throw a lot of sulphur. 

<Subject: Re: heifeweizen recipe?

Skip the kits.  Buy some domestic wheat extract, use it 1/2 and 1/2 
with Alexanders pale extract, 1/2 oz hallertau hops and the classic
liquid Weihenstephan Weizen yeast.  The yeast is a must, Wyeast and
lots of others sell it.

Al writes:

<Although you do not get the other
<benefits of decoction mashing (i.e. higher extract efficiency from
<undermodified malt and increased malt flavours), you can still make use
<of the acid rest to acidify your mash even if you use a stovetop-type
<mash.  Simply mash-in your temperature-controlled mash so the temp
<settles at 95F and then go up from there.  It's probably not a good
<idea to use an acid rest if you are doing a true step-infusion (raising
<the temps strictly by adding boiling water) since the volume of mash liquor,
<by the time you get to mashout, will be exceedingly large.

This is quite true, but should not be followed blindly.  You must
first consider exactly the characteristics of your base malt, it is getting
near impossible to locate "undermodified malt" these days.  By doughing
in at this low temp, then adding heat to raise the mash temps, you will
spend a considerable amount of time in the optimum range for proteolytic
enzyme activity.  This is certainly beneficial for protein reduction, 
but protein reduction can be overdone, resulting in a beer with a poor
foam stand/head retention.  With some malts, it is better to adjust your
water using salts, lactic acid aor phosphoric acids, then dough in 
closer to 130 or 140F.  It all depends on what you are after, and the 
raw ingredients you use.  I believe that when Fix suggests using such
low temp rests, he is using a very thick dough in followed by boiling
water infusions to rapidly jump temps, minimizing the enzymatic activities
at certain temps so he can control the beers finished body.  I hope George
will correct me if Ive misstated his procedure.  It would seem that a 
combined method of using a thick dough in, boiling water infusions to
minimize the time spent in the proteolytic enzyme range, followed by
heat additions to rest in the beta amylase and alpha amylase zones would
be the best of both worlds.

Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 10:36:59 EST
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Yeast preservation, and sanitizers.

fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick) asks about yeast preservation

> [ ... ] Every time I tried to revive the yeast popsicle, the yeast was
> dead. I know you can't use a frost-free fridge ... mine is an upright
> freezer with the coils in the shelves, temp ~ 0 deg F. [ ... ] Has
> anyone had success using this method? I've heard you need a laboratory
> grade freezer (-70 deg F?) for this method to work.

My yeast microbiologist friends all tell me that an ordinary freezer
(-20C/0F) is worse than a simple slant in the fridge. Only a low temp
freezer will work, and that works extremely well, of course.

However, you do not need a deep freeze! A slant will keep yeast alive
for at least a year (Saccharomyces; I did lose a Schizosaccharomyces
pombe in a couple of weeks). I have some slants that are 2 1/2 years old
and are perfectly fine in the vegetable cooler of my fridge. One thing
that I have noticed repeatedly is that people seem to streak their yeast
on the surface of the agar slant. That's not the way to do it: *stab*
the agar with the inoculating needle, so that the inoculum grows inside
the agar plug. It's as simple as that; slants are even commonly called
"stabs" in bacteriology labs.

hbush at pppl.gov (harry) asks about B-Brite, Bleach, Sanitizing, etc.

> I've hooked up with a new Homebrew supplier who emphatically maintains
> that B-Brite is NOT a sanitizer and merely a beerstone cleaner.  Of
> course we know that good ol' Clorox is a great sanitizer, but I had been
> previously led to believe that B-Brite was an oxygen-type bleach
> (similar to Clorox 2) and would do the trick just as well.

B-Brite is sodium "percarbonate", an oxygen bleach, and it is indeed an
excellent sanitizer and a reasonably good cleaner, especially to loosen
organic crud (the oxygen bubbles act as mini-scrubbers inside the crud).

> Spilling bleach and bleach/water from a chugging carboy as you empty it
> is the norm, and I didn't want to worry about ruining the clothes I had
> on. With B-Brite, I wouldn't have to worry, because, like Clorox 2, it's
> color safe! So I'm back to bleach for now, but what's the deal? Is
> B-Brite an acceptable sanitizer, or do I just wear my homebrew clothes?

Use B-Brite, or use an iodophor instead.

Pierre


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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:38:14 -0500 (EST)
From: david lawrence shea <dshea at ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: 5l keg foaming problems

I just read a post which recommended that one should quickly push the 
handle down completely to get rid of the foam.  My experience has been to 
do the opposite.  This is my method for minimal foam (less than a glass)

1.  Make sure the keg has chilled for 24 hours or more.
2.  The initial tap should use the natural CO2 pressure in the keg.
3.  Tilt the glass as you pour into it.
4.  Most important, push the handle down until there is a tiny trickle into
    the glass.  What your are doing here, is gently reducing excess CO2 
    pressure.  This first glass might take a half minute to pour, but it
    is worth it.  It usually results in 1/3 foam, 2/3 beer, or a healthy
    head
5.  The next glass or two may or may not need the trickle beginnings.  You
    get so you can anticipate when it is safe to open the tap fully.
6.  This method has been very successful for me, and I can always fully 
    enjoy the FIRST glass out of the keg.

Hope this helps.

David L. Shea
Indiana University
dshea at ucs.indiana.edu


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Date:          Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:50:59 CST
From: "geo" <WOLFF at albert.uta.edu>
Subject:       Irish Moss

Kevin Fons asks if anyone grows their Irish Moss.  Kevin, this would 
be difficult without beachfront property because Irish Moss is a 
seaweed.  It is harvested, not deliberately cultivated (as far as I 
know) from northern cool-temperate seas.  The Gaelic name is 
carragheen; the stuff is traditionally eaten (and in the past has 
been an important component of diet) in western Scotland, Ireland, 
and Iceland.
    If anyone out there knows what on earth possessed someone to 
first put seaweed in beer, I'd be interested to know.

John Wolff
wolff at uta.edu 



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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:21:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
Subject: Stupid questions: sparge water/lightstruck?/cardboard

Hi,

Just a couple of questions for the experts...

1. I'm almost embarrassed to ask this, but... when sparging, do you want 
the water to be 170 F, or do you want the temp of the grist raised to 
170F ? I'm planning my first all-grain batch soon, and it seems like I'm 
more confused than ever! How important is it to have the correct PH 
sparge water?

2. Do I have to worry about my beer getting "lightstruck" while its 
sitting in the secondary waiting to be bottled? I keep reading how beer 
can be skunked "in a matter of seconds".

3. Do you guys actually chew on cardboard to see what it tastes like?! 
Also, does wet cardboard taste different than dry cardboard??! :*)

Thanks,

Jerry Cunningham
Annapolis, MD

p.s. I brewed my first lager this month, so of course temperatures 
skyrocketed into the 60's - ahhhhhhhhhhh!

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Date: 20 Jan 95 10:11:00 -0600
From: Peter_Murphy-G10826 at email.mot.com
Subject: RIMS and Steam Injection

 Over the last few months I've been gathering concepts and materials to put 
 together my own RIMS system. The one concern I have with the design route 
 most people seem to take is the use of an electric heater in a chamber in 
 the recirculation path. The primary complaint with this method is 
 scorching of the mash. Even with a fairly high recirculation rate (which 
 could cause other problems like disturbing the grain bed and HSA) it seems 
 to me that a certain degree of scorching is inevitable anyways - 
 especially if the pump were to plug up.
 
 I've read about using direct steam injection for mash heating (the article 
 in Brewing Techniques). Has anyone had any experience using steam 
 injection, especially with a RIMS system? Does anyone see any apparent 
 reason that any one point in the recirculation path should be any better 
 (or worse) than another for the injection point (i.e. above the grain bed, 
 below the grain bed, in the grain bed, in the recirculation path)? Also, 
 any pointers on the use of steam in general would be appreciated?
 
 I plan to use a solenoid valve to regulate the steam flow for temperature 
 regulation and stepping.
 
 Pete Murphy

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:29:38 -0500
From: Nimbus Couzin <nimbus at physics.purdue.edu>
Subject: Chicago Brewing Ain't "Small"


Philip (I believe) commented that Chicago Brewing Co. is a
small, family brewing operation.

Small!!??? They put out over 30,000 barrels a year, and have
fermenters that are over 100 barrels each. Small compared
to the big boys, but too big to be considered a micro. I'd
personally call them "huge," but - as usual - it's all a matter
of perspective.. A cool place, by the way, great tours saturdays
at two  (call to check the time), and mighty friendly brewers..

Cheers, 
nimbus

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:44:38 -0500
From: Marla Korchmar <marlak at pipeline.com>
Subject: C-keg fittings

 
 
I recently acquired my first Cornelius keg (Coke)  -  from a local
dumpster.  According to a homebrew supply shop, the accouterments  - CO2
canister, gauge, and tap - will cost over $120.  Does anybody out there in
brew-land know of a less-expensive way of kegging?  Are used parts
acceptable? Or should I just figure that if I want to dispense with bottles
I'm going to have to pay?  (I'm a relatively new reader of the Digest; hope
I didn't just miss a discussion of the subject.)  
Private E-mail is fine.  
 
Thanks!! 
 
M.K.

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 09:42:02 -0500 
From: C.W. Jones (Christopher) <cwjones at microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: Churchkey?

A couple of weeks ago, someone asked about why we call a bottle opener 
a churchkey.

>From the information I have, it is called a churckkey (or a minister's 
key), because of the shape.  In the old days, church doors had the big 
locks that used keys with the big open ends on them.  Bottle openers 
were shaped similarly, and therefore captured the name.

Hope that helps out.

 -cwjones-

p.s. Information came from the Dictionary of Slang.


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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 11:01:31 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Lucifer, cider, 2l bottle caps

Jon Mendrick asks about Lucifer and cider.

* Lucifer is a Belgian strong ale, a knock-off of Duvel, a world-classic
beer.  Lucifer and other beers of that sort are quite popular with
college kids in Brussels.  Most of these beers have names related to
Hades, since Duvel means "devil" (in Flemish, I think), and they tend to
be cheaper and of lower quality than Duvel.  I don't think I would brag
about Lucifer; I'd have a Duvel instead.

In any case, a Duvel-type recipe would certainly put you in the
ballpark.  I don't have any recipes off hand, but you want a strong pale
ale, using pale malt or extract with very little if any dark malt, OG of
1.065 give or take, continental noble hops like Saaz, and a relatively
neutral yeast (I'd try WYeast European).  Check out the Simon & Schuster
"Pocket Guide to Beer" for more specifics on Duvel.

* As for making cider, it's even easier than beer, although it takes longer:

1.  Buy unfiltered, no-preservative apple juice.  Preservatives will
    inhibit yeast growth.  If you have fresh-off-the-tree unpasteurized
    juice, you may want to add campden tablets (1-2 per gallon) to the
    juice and wait 24 hrs; this will eliminate any existing nasties.

2.  (Optional) Add sugar (doesn't matter what kind) to raise the gravity
    to 1.065-1.070.  The additional alcohol subsequently produced will
    help the keeping properties of the cider, although it will make it
    stronger and a bit dryer tasting.

3.  Pitch your favorite yeast.  Champagne or wine yeast will give you a
    dryer, more wine-like final product; ale yeast will give you a
    fuitier, sweeter final drink.  Experiment!

4.  Wait.  Although the fermentation may finish in just a few weeks,
    cider takes longer than beer to age and mellow.  I'd go a minimum of
    a month, and I've gone as long as 5 or 6 months.  You'll get a
    clearer cider if you rack off the sediment a time or two.

5.  Bottle.  Either bottle as-is for still cider, or add same amount of
    priming sugar as you would for beer if you want sparkling cider.

* 2l (PET) bottle caps:  just sanitize the white plastic caps that came
on the bottles and use them as-is.  Works fine.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 13:23:57 -0500
From: "Todd Orjala" <t-orja at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: baking bottles

I have been sanitizing my bottles by baking at about 250(F)
for 30 to 60 minutes. I allow the bottles to cool to nearly
room temp before removing from the oven to bottle. I use only
12 oz returnable longnecks.

I have experienced several bottle failures in the first two
weeks after bottling as the pressure slowly increases. In no 
case has the beer been overprimed or under excess pressure. I 
have been using this method for 15-20 batches and have
experienced this problem only recently. Perhaps as bottles 
are treated repeatedly in this manner over time they become 
increasingly brittle. 

Has anyone else employing this method experienced similar
difficulties?

Regards,
Todd Orjala


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Date: 20 Jan 95 12:57:00 MST
From: "Robert Waddell" <V024971 at Tape.StorTek.Com>
Subject: Req: Grand Cru recipe puleeeeze

After tasting the Celis version, I'd like to make one similar or even better.
Our local Micro owner has said that if I can come up with something he might
even see what he can do with it on a "Grander" scale.  He took Gold at the
Great American Beer Festival in Denver last year with his Sawtooth Ale (Left-
hand Brewery, Longmont, Colorado) and I would love to see him do it again.
So, if any HBD'ers out there have a good Grand 
Cru that they wouldn't mind shareing, please
send it along.  It will be treated with the
best of care.  Puleeeeze?
(I know this is a beer forum but I couldn't help
adding a little whine.  B^)   )

Robert J. Waddell
V024971 at tape.stortek.com


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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 15:28:05 -0500
From: beer at rumors.delta.edu (Rich Adams)


Subject: Hefe weisse

I got back last week from spending 25 days roaming Europe and a friend
directed me to this fine mail-list.

At an inn in Schwangau (at the foot of Neuschwanstein castle) I was served a
Hefe weisse beer in a remarkably tall and well filled glass and it was some of
the finest [usual high endorsment].  I didn't pick up any name, or for perhaps
obvious reasons can't remember :)  However, a day later in Munchen (the monks)
I visited a brewpub/restaurant, a rather large one, named Augustiner and tried
their hefe weisse which had a really-not-quite-done raw flavor I've associated
with walking past the Anheiser-Busch brewery in Columbus, OH.  The better of
the two had a fairly mild rich flavor, white/yellow in color, and pretty well
clouded with yeast(?).

So impressed was I by this I've scampered into our local brew supply and
latched onto a rather larger than usual can of wort for a "weizen bier".
The proprietor informed me he believed a particular Bavarian yeast is required,
which should arrive this week.  Inspection of the recommended process suggests
a cup of wort is removed and stored (in the fridge) until 2-3 weeks after
fermentation begins, that is, just before bottling.  Adding the cup of wort
back into the fermenter.  Also involved is a process of skimming and transfering
between fermenters to remove sediments.  This seems to fit in with what someone
called "Strictest Standards of the German Purity Law for Beer".

I'm puzzled a bit by this because I've delved into the archive to find what I
could on this and discussion seems to revolve around an addition of yeast,
rather than wort, prior to bottling.  If anyone has any experience whatsoever
in the making of hefe weisse, I'd appreciate any pointers before I get into
this, I'd like to start brewing in a week or so, but am a little confused.

Thanks in advance,
Rich Adams


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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 07:53:20 +1100 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Yeast culturing/PET caps

Dear Friends, we've had some less than enthusiastic descriptions of yeast
culturing around here lately, so I'll chime in--I think culturing yeast is
very easy, has lots of benefits, and takes virtually no extra time.  I
have a 10 K bit of text on the (gory) details of how I proceed for anyone
who is interested--email me for a copy.  There's no new info there; what I
know I learned by reading the yeast.faq, this digest, and some
rec.crafts.brewing postings.  In a nutshell, it is dead simple to make
slants, store them in your fridge till you wish to inoculate them, and
then store them there once they have a starter's worth of yeast cells.  It
is not absolutely necessary to be as totally antiseptic as the
formidable-sounding procedures outlined in the faq either, provided one is
content to work with pure cultures and is not isolating strains, for
example, from bottle-conditioned beer. In my experience it is totally
obvious when a slant "goes off", and if so, big deal--there are billions
more yeast cells where they came from.  I keep 6 strains at the moment,
and brew on average 3 or 4 times per month, so am quite content to keep my
slants for only 3 months before re-inoculating onto fresh culture medium
(new slants).  I reckon all this adds at most 45-90 minutes per month to
my brewing duties, and that is a drop in the ocean compared to the time
involved in making 3 or 4 batches. 

PET bottle caps: I use the same ones over and over.  Just soak them in the
same bleach solution used to sanitize the bottles and rinse.  Then just
screw it on firmly.  Note however that I use just one PET per batch to
monitor carbonation and clarity, and usually open it up soon after the
batch comes "on line", so can't add any first-hand experience to the
question of how long the beer will keep in them--but it is my bias that
they will last for a few months at least. 

Cheers, Dave in Sydney (where all that hoopla is not, as you might think,
for the Pope's visit, but for that of ZymoGeneticist extraordinaire and
HBD FOOPmeister Domenick Venezia, who is here for some of the worst
weather Sydney has seen in ages!) [no sig, I've used my allotment]

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 13:03:00 PST
From: Koscal Mike <koscal at pcmail2.nb.rockwell.com>
Subject: Hydrometer Calibration


It seems that one of the more important factors for beer records are the S.G 
and F.G. readings. I have recently started using my hydometer more 
consistently to measure S.G. to determine my all grain extraction efficiency 
and F.G. to determine the alcohol content.  However my readings don't seem 
to make any sense(my grain efficiency is not what I expected & I thought 
water would read 1.000).  Please educate me on the following:  What should 
be the reading of plain tap water? How does the temperature affect the 
reading? How can I calibrate(oz. of salt/sugar per cup of water)?  Are there 
instruments or models that are more accurate than others?  What is the 
typical accuracy?

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 14:09:19 -0800
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Head



No, No, not that kind!  :-)

My ales taste great and look good, but don't head well.  I wonder if it
might be because I usually use Irish Moss and Sparkolloid in the boil.
Would those two substances be removing some of the proteins that contribute
to head formation and retention?

Any suggestions for improving the head on ales?

and what is Sparkolloid, anyway?  I gather it is a bentonite compound, no?

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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 17:25:59 -0500 (EST)
From: sam at deuce.toolsmiths.on.ca (Sean MacLennan)
Subject: Re: Capping 2L PET bottles.

Mark asks:

> How does one cap 2L PET bottles?  Do you just crank down on the original
> cap?

Yup! I have used both new and used caps on the same batch of beer with
no noticable difference. However, my beers seldom last more than 2
months.

	Sean MacLennan
	sam at toolsmiths.on.ca

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 00:07 CST
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Chidago area homebrew supplys

===> Mike Vita asks about Chicago area homebrew supplies:

>My brother has recently moved to the Chicago area (Naperville),
>and would like to know of any good homebrew suppliers in the
>area.  I told him I would ask.  Thanks.

The following is a list of homebrew supply sources in the Chicago
area.  Note that one, The Brewer's Coop is located on north Washington
in Naperville (between the Diary Queen and Ace Hardware north of Ogden
Ave).

Chicago Area Homebrew Suppliers
- -------------------------------

The Brewer's Coop
1010 N. Washington St.
Naperville, IL  60563
708-369-3950/800-451-6348
(just north of Ogden Ave (US-34))

Sheaf & Vine Brewing Supply, located inside 
Mainstreet Deli and Liquors
5425 South LaGrange Rd.
Countryside, IL
708-430-HOPS
(3 minutes north of Stevenson Expwy (I-55))

Lil'Ol WineMaking Shoppe
4S245 Wiltshire Lane
Sugar Grove, IL. USA 60554
708-557-2523

Chicago Indoor Garden Supply
297 N. Barrington Rd.
Streamwood, IL  60107
708-885-8282
(2 miles south of Northwest Tollway (I-90))


Also, you might want to tell your brother to stop by our homebrew club
- -- The Urban Knaves of Grain.  We meet at 7:30 PM the last Thursday of
the month at Taylor Brewing in Fifth Avenue Station (on 5th Ave, just
east of Washington and just on the other side of the railroad tracks
from the Naperville commuter train station).

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1637, 01/21/95