FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  American Brewer's Guild training (Doug Flagg)
  Whatney's Beers (faldska)
  Cat Meow 3 (MYETTE)
  Re: Alt / Kolsch H2o (TomF775202)
  Re: Soda keg prices (TomF775202)
  Krausening (Chris Strickland)
  Iodophors (Zeek67)
  Purple Haze (Zeek67)
  labels, water, chiller, HSA question ("Gerry Nelson")
  A-B Discontinues Reuseable Bottles (Dan Klein)
  Species name:Irish moss (Jim Cave)
  Weizen ?'s, yeast culturing ("Lee Bussy")
  Yeast storage (Maribeth_Raines)
  Wichita Competetion ("Lee Bussy")
  fruit beer (Michael Collins)
  Belgiun Yeasts (DavidM3019)
  Pseudo Guinness Stout (Michael Collins)
  Good winterbrew recipe (Steven M Verdekel)
  Cleaning Bottles (Jeff Hewit)
  1995 Bay Area Brewoff results (Bob Jones)
  Conditioning (Lee Bollard)
  Malt: Belgian or US? (Lee Bollard)
  Burlington, VT, BJCP Exam Cancelled (TAyres)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 08:35:00 GMT
From: doug.flagg at chksix.com (Doug Flagg)
Subject:  American Brewer's Guild training


Has anyone attended the advanced homebrewer weekend seminars offered
by the American Brewer's Guild on various weekends around the
country?  If so, I would be interested in learning what you thought
about class and content.  Private e-mail ok if you want to keep it
confidential.

Doug Flagg
doug.flagg at chksix.com

- ---
 * OLX 1.53 * Misspelled?  Impossible.  My modem is error correcting.

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Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 23:35:43 -0700 (MST)
From: faldska at asu.edu
Subject: Whatney's Beers



   I was sitting here in front of the computer drinking a nice cold 
Whatney's Red Barrel when I thought to myself "Why don't I find out how 
to make this."  So does anyone out there have a recipe for brewing 
Whatney's Red Barrel or their Cream Stout?? Preferably extract recipes, 
but I guess I have to start all-grain brewing sometime.  You can reply here 
or in email.  Thanks.


Dave Oleksy
faldska at imap1.asu.edu



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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 06:49:33 -0500 (EST)
From: MYETTE at delphi.com
Subject: Cat Meow 3

I have read some old issues of HBD and have seen mention of Cats Meow 3.

where can I find this new version

Myette at delphi.com

`[1;33;41mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 09:59:44 -0500
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Alt / Kolsch H2o

The classic beer styles German Wheat beer book has some water profiles. Watch
out when using the recipes in that book though. They all have rediculously
high O.G.'s. For instance, an O.G. of 1.032 for 2-1/8 lbs of wheat malt and
2-1/8 lbs of pale in five gallons. This Warner character is getting some
amazing extraction rates.

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 09:59:48 -0500
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Soda keg prices

I have a source for these kegs very reasonably. E-mail me for an address,
phone, etc.

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:11:52 -0500
From: cstrick at iu.net (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Krausening

I tried krausening for the first time, used about 40oz of green beer from a 
1.064 SG batch.  I bottled the green beer and stored in the fridge, then 
primed with it before bottling.  I've encountered two problems:

1)  The beer is overprimed,  what formula should I be using to krausen?

2)  There's a whole bunch of crap in the bottom of each bottle, kinda like 
the junk that gets blow out during fermentation.  I have to filter the beer 
before I can drink it.  Is there a way to remove this stuff before priming.
- --------------
Chris Strickland
cstrick at iu.net


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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:14:35 -0500
From: Zeek67 at aol.com
Subject: Iodophors

David Allison writes:
"A while back I believe there was a thread regarding types of iodophor 
santizing reagents which contained phosphoric acid.  I picked up some 
Mikroklene from EcoLabs which contains the same iodine complex as the BTF 
iodophor that I get from the local HomeBrew shop.  The titratable iodine 
between the two products is basically the same, but the Mikroklene contains 
6.5% phosphoric acid.  For those of you in the know -- Is there a problem 
with this product because of the phosphoric acid?  Is there anything else 
to be aware of?"

I have trouble rinsing soaps and bleach so I am now using iodophors
exclusively.
I recently looked into this after hearing that you could buy 1 gal of
iodophor udder wash at Agway for around $12.  I called Ecolab to ask them if
Mikroklene was safe for using in food service applications.  I talked with a
technical service rep there who told me that this product is not FDA
approved.  I don't remember if it was because of the phosphoric acid.  

He did however tell me about another product that is FDA approved for food
service applications.  It is called "Diophor".  This should be used at
12.5-25 ppm.  He told me it should be rinsed.  They also have another FDA
approved product called Ster Bac.  I believe it is not iodine based and may
be ammonium based.

I have not yet tried to buy the Diophor yet but will soon because I am
getting tired of paying $2 for 4 oz of the stuff sold in homebrew shops.  The
only problem may be having to order the stuff by the case (4 to a case).


The number for Ecolab is 612-293-2233.  (Blah, blah, blah)

~Zeek
ZEEK67 at AOL.COM

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:14:48 -0500
From: Zeek67 at aol.com
Subject: Purple Haze

I suffer from an occassional cloudy beer every so often and  am trying to
figure out why.  I have discontinued doing a protein rest for ales using
primarily (English) pale ale malt because I know these malts are highly
modified.  I do recirculate 2-3 gallons of my sparge (for a 5 gal. batch)
until I am no longer getting small pieces of grain, but  when you talk about
recirculating until clear does that mean the runnings should not be cloudy
and should be as clear as a finished beer?  What is the best way to clear a
beer that is cloudy from what I presume are proteins?  Are finings such as
isinglass, geletain, and polyclar used for this, or do these clear haze due
only to yeast?  Lastly, will overdoing a protein rest ( at 128+ deg.), sugar
rest, or fining be a detriment to head retention?

I am wondering if my recirculation is not effective because of my shallow
grain bed depth in my lauter tun.  I use a ten gal. stainless pot w/ false
bottom.  My grain depth is about 6 inches for 10 lbs of grain.  What is the
optimal bed depth and what is the minimum?

~Zeek

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Date:          Sat, 21 Jan 1995 08:27:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Gerry Nelson" <GNELSON at acad.cc.whecn.edu>
Subject:       labels, water, chiller, HSA question

I've been brewing extract and partial mash for about three years, and 
listening in on the Digest for about a year, and I have some 
information/ideas that other beginners may find useful.  I like to 
name and label all my beers (personal pride, I guess.)  I use Avery 
removable labels that come in 8.5 by 11" sheets, and a laser printer. 
I print the name, type of beer, date, and put a nice border around 
it. Search and replace takes care of new information and the format 
stays.  As long as you get the removable label material, there is no 
problem as the labels peel right off.  As a new brewer learning my 
way around, the Digest has been invaluable. For those of you as 
new or newer to the hobby, and trying to find those things that make 
the biggest difference in the quality of your beer, buy a wort chiller 
immediately, and pay attention to your water. I just changed from 
tap water to bottled spring water, which I then adjust, and my pale 
ales, ESBs, and IPAs now taste like they should!  A question about 
HSA; Why isn't this a problem during vigorous boil?
Jerry Nelson, Physical Sciences Division
Department of Geology/Geography
Casper College, Casper Wyoming 82601
(307)268-2514 (voice and FAX)

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 10:33:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Klein <dklein at freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: A-B Discontinues Reuseable Bottles

Better get your bottles now. According to an article in "The Columbus
Dispatch" A-B is going to stop using bottles that can be refilled and
start using only bottles that are designed to be crushed after one use.
This is suppose to happen after March 21.

Cheers - Dan

   I Grow My Own Vegetables, Load My Own Ammunition, Brew My Own Beer,
         Kill My Own Meat, Work On My Own Car, & Fix My Own Home. 
       Your Opinions Are Sought, But I'll Make Up My Own Damn Mind.
+++++++++++++++++++++dklein at freenet.columbus.oh.us++++++++++++++++++++++



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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 8:24:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: Species name:Irish moss

	Does anyone (Botanist) know the species name of Irish moss
Carageenan.  I live in B.C. where numerous species of algae are found
I suspect that there is a species here that should mimic its
clarifying qualities.  At $4 an ounce, it may be economically viable!

		Jim Cave "I brew, therefore I am"

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Date:          Sat, 21 Jan 1995 11:14:38 +0000
From: "Lee Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Weizen ?'s, yeast culturing

Nybody notice how many people are making Weizens in the winter and 
Octoberfests in the summer?

Rich Adams asks about adding yeast to bottle Weizen:

Rich, Hefe Weizen is bottled with a seccond, dusty strain selected 
for it's ease of being stirred up into suspension again and it's 
flavor.  This is why Hefe Weizen is not a candidate for culturing 
from the bottle incidentally.

You can just prime and bottle as usual, should work fine.  You can 
remove the wort for Spiese (priming with wort) but corn sugar will 
work and I won't tell them if you don't.
===============
Pierre Jelenc throws in his opinion about agar slants:

Pierre, while stabs are an accepted practice in a lab, and even 
homebrewers use them for strains (Brettanomyces) that require 
anerobic conditions, yeast slants should be streaked.  The yeast does 
not suffer form not being "immersed" in the agar and it is quite easy 
to remove a tiny scrape to begin a starter.

================
That's it for this issue I guess.  I have been down a while as I have 
been having software problems.

Prost!

- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 12:51:11 PST
From: raines at radonc.ucla.edu (Maribeth_Raines)
Subject: Yeast storage

WIth regards to the recent thread on yeast storage I thought I would 
add a few comments.  Ed Hitchcock's suggestion to freeze in a cold 
alcohol solution is a good one.  Thanks Ed.  As far as which is better 
for homebrewers slants versus freezing both have there advantages and 
disadvantages.  Freezing is better in terms of minimizing mutation 
frequency.  Once frozen however, the yeast must not be thawed until 
use.  So if your freezer temperature fluctuates such that you get any 
thawing or even partial thawing it can be a problem and definitely 
will affect the viability of the yeast.  Storage at -70C or in liquid 
nitrogen is better and that's how the BrewTek stocks are stored.  The 
other problem often encountered with long term storage in home 
freezers is "freezer burn" or a partial evaporation on the surface of 
the stored liquid.  In order to prevent this you need to store the 
yeast in a container with a good seal; preferaly one with a gasket.  
Also the yeast survive better if they are actively growing at the 
thime they are stored.  So it is better to freeze a portion of your 
starter (where yeast is in suspension in starter) than some of a yeast 
slurry from a priamry ferment.  

Yeast can be stored on slants easily for a year, I've had some do well 
even after two years.  The longevity of the slant will in part be 
determined by the nature of the media on which it is stored.  At 
BrewTek we use a media I formulated to improve growth and long term 
survival. Regular wort agar works fine but may not maintain viable 
yeast as long.  The main problem with slant (and my reason for not 
being an advocate of using plates for yeast storage) is that they are 
exposed to air and oxygen.  This is detrimental to long term yeast 
storage.  They can after awhile dry out if not stored in a good 
container.   Some brewing scientists actually recommend that you 
should store your yeast under sterile mineral oil.  This seems like it 
would be messy and difficult to work with.  Pierre suggesting 
'stabbing' your yeast into the slant.  This is indeed a good idea in 
theory and I have been experimenting with yeast storage in this 
fashion.  Those who have purchased the Pediococcus or Brettanomyces 
cultures from Brewers Resource know that these are supplied as stab 
cultures.  We use this primarily because it promotes anaerobic growth. 
  If you do decide to use this method, you need to adjust the amount 
of agar in your media.  Stabs use about half the amount of agar (0.8% 
sticks in my mind).  The lower agar concentration allows the yeast to 
grow and spread over the surface of the stab more readily than in 
normal agar.  The disadvantage with stabs is that it is difficult to 
see what you're extracting when you do it. I should also point out 
that in all my readings regarding the maintenance and storage of yeast 
I have yet to see stabs listed as a method of storage.  I was quite 
surprised by this since this is a common method for storing bacterial 
strains. 

Interestingly, I submitted a brief article containing some of the 
above info awhile back for Brewing Techniques.  I felt that it 
contained some useful information which was contrary to what most 
homebrewers practiced.  For some reason, it was never published.  I 
may speak on this topic at this year's AHA conference so it may end up 
getting published elsewhere!

Cheers!

MB Raines
raines at radonc.ucla.edu
  

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Date:          Sat, 21 Jan 1995 15:46:13 +0000
From: "Lee Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Wichita Competetion

This is another notice to all homebrewers and Mead & Cider makers.

The Second Annual Greater Wichita Open Homebrew Competition will be 
held on March 25th, 1995.  

This is an HWTBA recognized competition so every effort will be made 
to fill the tables with sanctioned judges.  Interested judges are 
encouraged to reply.

All classes of Beer, Cider and Meads are accepted.  First, Second and 
Third to be awarded in each class, BOS winner will be announced..

Packets are available e-mail or snail mail however you prefer.

- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 14:15:02 -0800
From: mcollins at mail.wsdot.wa.gov (Michael Collins)
Subject: fruit beer

I am preparing to create a fruit beer with raspberries and apricots.  The
various recipes I have consulted either suggest either adding fruit at the
very end of the boil and letting it steep for 30 min or so, others suggest
adding the fruit to the secondary fermenter.  For those that have tried
this, which is easier and provides more juicy fruit flavor?

In the first technique do you strain the fruit out or leave it in the
fermenter?

In the second do you use (defrosted) frozen fruit and just add to secondary
with no other preparation?

If anyone has any comments on the recipe I have scrapped together, I would
sincerely appreciate it:
* 1 lb Wheat malt grain
* 1 lb Dextrine malt grain
* 3.3 lb light malt (dry powdered extract)
* 1 lb. Bavarian Weizen (dry powdered extract, 65% Wheat, 35% Barley Malt)
* 3 cans frozen Apricot nectar concentrate
* 4-5 lbs of frozen Raspberries
* 0.5 oz Saaz (60 min)
* 0.5 oz German Hersbrucker (45 min)
* 0.5 oz German Hersbrucker (1 min)
* WYeast's Brettanomyces. bruxellensis Liquid Yeast (# 3278)

Steps: Grains added and mash brought to ~152 for 40 min.  Mix is strained
and sparged, then water added and brought to boil for 60 min.  Fruit added
to wort at the end of boiling and allowed to steep for 30 min at 150 - 180
F.

   (\__/)  .~   ~. ))             ________________________________
   /O O `./      .'               mcollins at wsdot.wa.gov
  {O__,   \    {                  Michael Collins
    / .  . )    \                 WS Department of Transportation
    |-| '-' \    } ))             Olympia, WA (360) 705-7275
  '---.~_ _ _&                    ________________________________



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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 23:10:20 -0500
From: DavidM3019 at aol.com
Subject: Belgiun Yeasts

I have returned from a trip with the following Belgiun Ales. And my question
is are any of them worth culturing the yeast.

Corsendonk
Affligem(Tripel and Dobbel)
Duvel
La Trappe (trible) From Holland

Thanks in advance
David

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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 20:10:06 -0800
From: mcollins at mail.wsdot.wa.gov (Michael Collins)
Subject: Pseudo Guinness Stout

I would very much like some help formulating a partial mash recipe for a
**pseudo** Guinness Stout.  Any help on this out there? :)

Please comment on the following recipe (it's based on one from Dave
Miller's Home Brewing book).  I'm shooting for 1.047 - 1.052 O.G. and 15
AA:

3 lb. - (some sort of) Pale Ale Malt (Extract Syrup)
3 lb. - 2-row Pale Lager Malt (Malted Grain), is this the same as Klages ?
1 lb. - Flaked Barley (Unmalted Grain ?)
4 oz. - Chocolate Malt  (Malted Grain)
14 oz. - Roasted Barley (Malted Grain)
2.5 oz. - Goldings (Dried Leaf) one addition for 60 min
Wyeast # 1084: Irish Ale, Liquid Yeast.

Procedure:
1) Heat 6 Qt. of water to 126 F.  Add 2 tsp. Gypsum (I use very soft
artesian water) and check pH (Miller says pH should be ~ 5.0 - 5.3).
2) Add Grains and bring mash to ~122 for 30 min. for protein rest.
3) Starch conversion rest for 2 hours at 150 - 141 F.
4) Mash out at 168 F for 5 min, strain and let drip for 15 min.
5) Sparge grains with 2.5 Qt. of 168 F water at pH 6.5.
6) Bring mix and additional water to a boil and add Malt extract.
7) After 30 min add Goldings hops.
8) Continue to boil for 60 min., add Irish Moss in last 15 minutes.
9) Ferment for one month at 62 - 70 F.

I have read somewheres that Goldings is the type of hop used in the real
stuff...  Is this the same as Kent Goldings? (I never see just 'Goldings')

__________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________



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Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 20:38:01 -800 (PST)
From: Steven M Verdekel <steven at cyber.cyber.net>
Subject: Good winterbrew recipe



Well, it's good to find a newsletter devoted to something that REALLY 
matters...Homebrewing! I'm new here, but I have been brewing beer for a 
good 4 years now. You guys all seem to be a little advanced in your 
techniques compared to me; an extract/grain brewer. This is good. I will 
learn new things here. Heres a recipe that I brewed earlier this winter 
and found it to be one of my better recipes. Give this a try if you like 
dark, robust, malty brews...

                           7 lbs. dark malt extract
                           1 lb.  Crystal malt
                           1/2 lb. Chocolate malt
                           1/4 lb. Black Patent
                           1 lb. honey (clover)
                           4 tsp. nutmeg
                           10 inch Cinammon stick
                           1 1/2 oz. Helletaur hops (bittering)
                           1/2 oz. Helletauer hops (finishing)
                           1 lb. bakers chocolate
                           14 grams Australian ale yeast.

The O.G. on my batch was a healthy 1.065, but as you probably have 
guessed...the final gravity wasn't anywhere near 0...which was good. It 
is the adjuncts and unfermentables in this batch that give it that 
special holiday/winter character. I will definanely try this batch 
again...but before next winter!

Enjoy!

Steven Verdekel
Oceanside, Calif.    GO CHARGERS!!!





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Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 11:56:31 -0500
From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Cleaning Bottles



Since this seems to be a popular topic, I thought I'd throw in
my 2 cents.  First, I rinse out my bottles whenever I pour
myself a beer.  This is the easiest time to clean out the yeast
sediment.  Then, I run them through the diswasher as part of a
regular load of dishes.  When it's time to bottle a batch, I
wash out the bottles with B-Brite and rinse with a jet washer.
I run them through the diswasher - bottles only - with some
bleach.  I use the hot cycle, and run them through a second
time - no bleach - using the heated drying option.  I then 
let them cool in the diswasher, and bottle and cap right from 
the dishwasher rack.  I know that I may be going overboard, but
I've never had a problem with infection.  Anyway, just because
you're paranoid doesn't mean no one's after you.  I know there
is some controversy over using a diswasher, but I believe in
using labor saving devices whenever possible.

Jeff Hewit

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Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 09:29:56 +0800
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: 1995 Bay Area Brewoff results

Hello fellow brewers,

Thought I would post the results from the 1995 Bay Area Brewoff held Jan.
21, 1995 at Lyon's Brewery Depot, Dublin, Ca.

Pale Ale:
1st - Ken Brown, No club affilliation
2nd - Chad Thistle, Sonoma Beerocrats
3rd - Ebben Raves Mark Amonino, No club affilliation

India Pale Ale:
1st - Steve Lambert, No club affilliation
2nd - Al Branch, Draught Board
3rd - John Campbell, No club affilliation

Bock:
1st - Tom Altenbach, Draught Board
2nd - Steven Solik, No club affilliation
3rd - David Hume, No club affilliation

Barley Wine:
1st - Jim Lopes, No club affilliation
2nd - Tom Altenbach, Draught Board
3rd - Bob Jones, Draught Board

Stout:
1st - George Fix, North Texas Homebrewers
2nd - Jim Lopes, No club affilliation
3rd - Ward Bensen, No club affilliation

Porter:
1st - Scott Parr, Big Ring beer club
2nd - Bryan Gros, Draught Board
3rd - Ward Bensen, No club affilliation

Holiday:
1st - John Jaynes, No club affilliation
2nd - Peter Gotts, No club affilliation
3rd - Steve Jacobson, No club affilliation

Mead:
1st - Loren Davidson & Dale Walker, Draught Board
2nd - Bonny Setzer, Draught Board
3rd - Lawrence Townsend, Santa Clara Valley Brewers

Great food, prizes and music. A good time was had by all! 

See you all next year.


Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



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Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 11:43:19 PST
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Conditioning

I keg my beer.  I've been racking from secondary into a corny keg, and
immediately placing it in the fridge with CO2 attached for carbonating.

Would I improve the taste of the beer by letting it "condition" at room
temperature after racking to the keg, and before chilling/carbonating? 
How long?

- ---
Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 11:45:02 PST
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Malt: Belgian or US?

Since beginning all-grain brewing I've been making Pale Ales (only)
using only DeWolf & Cosyns Pale Malt in single-infusion mashes.

How would the flavor of my beers change if I switched to Schrier or
Briess Pale Malt?

- ---
Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 18:33:38 -0500
From: TAyres at aol.com
Subject: Burlington, VT, BJCP Exam Cancelled

I just wanted to let everyone know that the Beer Judge Certification Program
exam previously scheduled for Burlington, Vermont, next Saturday, January 28,
has been cancelled.  I don't have the required minimum number of registrants
(6) needed to give the test.  Only one person has expressed interest so far
and they haven't officially registered.  Sooooo . . . sorry -- we'll try
again some other time, perhaps in the fall or early in 1996.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1638, 01/23/95