FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Tumbleweed is alive and well (Kinney Baughman)
  More on PU brewing ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  Brewpubs, pubs in Dallas Texas (Jonathan Albrecht ph3187)
  Stainless Steel & Halogens ("Mary G. Cummins")
  Blue Gray Beer Can & Breweriana Show (Eric_Poole)
  Isinglass and Keg Conditioning ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Bottle swap (CT) (Guy Mason)
  Wort aeration, Bottles etc. (Steven Lichtenberg)
  decoction mashing/lactose/Trappist Ales (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Garetz's utilization/protein rests (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Suds Program (Tom Baier)
  10 gallon batches (djt2)
  complicated rims (Eamonn McKernan)
  Archives/kegging/quick beer (Jeff Stampes)
  Wyeast 1968 / Request for tubing info / Gott info (Rich Lenihan)
  Mosher Hop Utilization Numbers (Eric W. Miller)
  Fermentation of very first homebrew (Joseph R Tristano)
  Chloramine (Pulsifer)
  NDN: Homebrew Digest #1646 (February 01, 1995) (Gateway)
  Listserve (Joe Hoffer)
  Water analysis for Koelsch: German degree of hardness (Robert Bloodworth                            ZFBTO    - MT0054)
  DME Shelf life, Decoction Question ("Thomas W. Ausfeld")
  Ultraviolet light (SnowMS_at_CNTORSSA)
  Stuff from #1646 (Kevin McEnhill)
  hop utilization fit (Fredrik Stahl)
  r.e. Iodine Test Strips - Where? (Stan Fisher)
  RE: Adding hops hopped kits/carbonation/carbonation of Hefeweizen (david lawrence shea)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:18:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: Tumbleweed is alive and well

Greetings one and all,

First off, I miss not contributing as much to the HBD as I have in the
past.  It seems all I have time to do is skim the discussions for new
information.  The HBD remains the single most important venue for
discussing brewing related matters and we should all be proud of it.

I guess I couldn't help notice mention of Tumblweed and my part in that
rather interesting play.  So here's a short follow-up.

Tumbleweed is doing well.  We are now producing around 6 bbls of beer per
week, up from barely 1 bbl. when I took over.  No.  We're not getting rich
but we are making money.  And the publicity for the restaurant has been
nothing short of overwhelming for a small 80 seat restaurant in a town of
12000 people.  We've been on TV twice, had articles written on us in two
regional slick magazines, the good folks at Southern Drafts did us the
honor of a cover story as did the Johnson City Press (in their Sunday
edition, no less!) and the Winston-Salem journal featured us in a big story
on brewpubs in NC.  That story hit the AP wire and was reprinted in over a
dozen newspapers in the Southeast.

Not bad.

As I mentioned about a year ago, we traded Scott Wisler of HBD fame for a
new 6 bbl. brewpot and it's been working famously.  I shudder to think
where we would be if we were still brewing in the old 1 1/2 bbl. pot.

Yes.  We're an extract based brewery but I'm not so foolish as to believe
that extracts alone are enough to produce quality beers.  We use plain malt
extract as our fermentable base and infuse grains in the brewing water to
make the different styles we serve.  Had it not been so widely publicized
here that we use extracts hardly anyone would be able to tell from drinking 
our beer.

We've brewed around 27 different kinds of beer in the last 2 years.  We've
introduced this small mountain town to IPA's, fruit beers, wheat beers, 
spiced beers, coffee stouts, and this year our several Belgian style beers
have been a big hit.  I had discovered that homebrewed beer that has sat in
kegs at home for a couple of years develop a very "nice" pediococcus bug that
impart a pleasant tartness to a beer, reminiscent of the Belgian Flemish
browns.  We did a controlled introduction of these little bugs into a
couple of our beers and the response was predictable--people either loved
or hated them.  Enough have loved them that we have kept some style or
other on line most of the year.

So it *is* possible to get into commercial brewing without mortgaging your
first born son.  We've borrowed no money, built our own equipment, and have
turned on Northwestern NC onto beer styles that were unheard of before we
put some of these brews on tap.

Would I recommend that other people follow our lead?  Yes and no.  We brew
under conditions that, while sufficient, are less than ideal.  I've had to
draw on every ounce of my 14 year brewing experience to pull this off.  The
biggest skill I've learned is how to reverse engineer beers.  For just like
homebrewing, every beer doesn't turn out the way you want it.  But
unlike homebrewing, you can't afford to pour them down the drain.  So far
we've been very fortunate.  I only jerked 30 gallons from the serving line
last year.  And I took those home to drink myself.  It's not that they were
"bad".  I just didn't want to stake the brewery's reputation on them.

Cam Hedrick, our former brewery operations manager resigned just before
Christmas to pursue other business interests.  Our new brewery operations
manager is Brian Lee and he's working out fine.  I *almost* posted here for
the new job but in the meantime I ran across Brian.

Gotta go.  Keep up the good work here and come see us.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Kinney Baughman                      |      Beer is my business and
  baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu       |      I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 12:14:47 EST
From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com>
Subject: More on PU brewing

A.J DeLange commented on brewing a PU clone,   I must admit that doing the 
double decoction is a slight cutting of corners and that a triple is 
better.   His point about differences in DC Pils malt is consistant  with 
Fixes empirical evidence that the DC Pils malt had changed since first 
introduced to the market.   My own observation of the grains acrospire 
(sp?) indicated the Ireks was less developed than the DC Pils.  I found 
that the new Wyeast Chech Pils yeast produces diacetyl and even with a rest 
there is some in the beer when done lagering, again I must own up to 
cautting a corner with the diacetyl rest.

Ideally one would do a triple decoction, a mid 40F ferment and a long cold 
lager.  I am guessing but I feel I save an hour in the brew day and about a 
month in the lager by doing only 2 decotions and a diacetyl rest. 

Lee

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 12:27:27 EST
From: albrecht at bns102.bng.ge.com (Jonathan Albrecht ph3187)
Subject: Brewpubs, pubs in Dallas Texas


I'll be traveling to Dallas Texas in a few weeks and
am looking for info on brewpubs, microbreweries, and/or
good watering holes.  Responses by private e-mail are
welcome.

Jon Albrecht
________________________________________________________
Jonathan Albrecht   (albrecht at bng.ge.com)  

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 10:44:17 -0700 (MST)
From: "Mary G. Cummins" <mcummins at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
Subject: Stainless Steel & Halogens

Pat Babcock pointed out on Jan 30 that chlorine does attack and destroy 
stainless steel. he recommends to use Iodophur for sanitizing stainless 
steel. As it turns out, all halogens attack stainless steel, including 
iodine. Sodium or potassium metabilsulphide should be your choice. 
Gunther Trageser, mcummins at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:13:33 -0500
From: Eric_Poole at navsup.navy.mil
Subject: Blue Gray Beer Can & Breweriana Show

     ATTENTION BEER & BREWERIANA LOVERS!!
     
     The 16th Annual Blue Gray Beer Can and Breweriana Show will be held at 
     the Holiday Inn South, Fredericksburg, VA on 17-19 February 1995.  
     This is the Premier show in the East, co-sponsored by the Capitol 
     City, Richbrau, and Rusty Bunch Chapters, BCCA.  The Holiday Inn South 
     is located east of  I-95 at the US Route 1 exit.  The show is held on 
     the second floor terraces overlooking the atrium and indoor pool.
     
     The Blue Gray is a Buy, Sell, and Trade show for all forms of 
     Breweriana, including Beer Cans, Cones, Bottles, Trays, Coasters, 
     Signs, Neons, Glasses, Mugs, Steins, Mirrors, Openers, Labels, Tap 
     Knobs, Crowns, and Homebrew Supplies.  You name it, it'll be there!
     
     The show includes a Banquet, Raffles, and a Hospitality Room.  As is 
     tradition, ONLY MICRO-BREWED and CONTRACT- BREWED BEER will be served, 
     promising the best beer of any show in the country!  Last year's show 
     featured beer from Oxford, Frederick, Olde Heurich, Baltimore, Wild 
     Goose, Arrowhead, Oldenberg, Gambrinus, Greenshields, Hoster's, 
     Loggerhead, Mountain Brewers, Samuel Adams, Old World, New Amsterdam, 
     and other brewers.
     
     Admission and hospitality for walk-ins is only $5.  Full registration 
     with one table and hospitality is $12.  
     
     Any questions, call Ray Johnson on (703) 971-3549.
     
     Don't miss it!
      
     
     
     

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 11:11:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Isinglass and Keg Conditioning


[This may be addressed in a FAQ somewhere--if so
I apologize IA and ask for direction!]

We coming to the finish line on the secondary ferment
of an English Ordinary.  So far it appears to have the
color of Coors Extra Gold (!), and we'd like to add the
isinglass when we go into the keg; however, we'd also
like to prime in the keg.

The question is: can one do both of these and expect
it all to work?  Specifically, does the isinglass precipitate
the yeast as well as the proteins, and if so, is there any
reasonable way to clarify with isinglass and yet not
have to force carbonate?

Kirk R Fleming
 -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil
 -BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore.

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 14:53:08 EST
From: Guy Mason <guy at polo.matrixnet.com>
Subject: Bottle swap (CT)


======== WARNING Post of local interest CT area only ===========

Do any of my fellow CT brewers have a good source for champagne bottles?
Or if you have extra champagne bottles maybe we could swap homey's for 
bottles?

Guy Mason
Matrix Software
guy at matrixnet.com

============= End of local interest posting ====================

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Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 15:35:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil>
Subject: Wort aeration, Bottles etc.

Greetings all--
I found a few neat things out in the world and thought some of you might 
find them useful.

I was at the aquarium store the other day buying some fish and just 
looking around.  I found a package of DISPOSABLE air stones.  These are 
just little pieces of porous plastic with a connector that allows them to 
be attached to the end of a piece of tubing.  Those of you that use 
aquarium pumps for aeration might be able to make use of something like 
this.  I figured that if they are made for fish tank use, they probably 
not going to contain anything harmful (tropical fish are much more 
sensitive to contaminants than people are) and if I sanitize with boiling 
water there would be no problems with using this in my beer.  Heck, if I 
can only use them once each, it is not too big a deal.  They cost $1.99 
for 6 of them.  I am willing to add an additional $.33 to my brewing 
session...

Secondly, for those of you in the Washington, DC area, Frederick Brewing 
Company, makers of Blue Ridge products, has switched to a plastic label 
that is about the easiest thing I have ever seen to remove from the 
bottle.  They just pull right off with no tearing and almost no glue 
residue on the bottle.  I have seen these labels on the ESB and on the 
Porter.  I can not speak for any of the other beers as I haven't tried 
them recently.  I do know that the Cranberry Christmas beer they put out 
this year still had the paper labels though.

Hope this helps someone..
- --S
  ^
   
       **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
      C|~~| ------------ Steven Lichtenberg --------------- C|~~|
       `--'  ------ steve at pentagon-emh6.army.mil ---------   `--'
              -- Programmer/Analyst - Datanamics, Inc. --
                 -- Gaithersburg, MD & The Pentagon ---
                  -----------------------------------
                  ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL


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Date: 31 Jan 95 15:44:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: decoction mashing/lactose/Trappist Ales

Kirk writes:
>My understanding was that decoction referred ONLY to the means by which
>temperature was controlled in a mash, and had nothing to do with any 
>particular
>mash schedule.  Specifically, according to my source(s), decoction means
>nothing more than using hot make-up water to heat the mash, or using some
>mash liquor removed from the tun and heated, to do the same.  I'm getting 
>the
>idea there is much more to it than this...someone please illuminate!  And

Decoction mashing is more than just a way to raise temperature.  What you
describe ("using hot make-up water") is infusion mashing... i.e. adding
"infusions" of hot water to raise the temperature of the mash.  Decoction
mashing is where you remove 30-50% of the *grain* of the mash and just
enough liquid to prevent scorching, raise this up to saccharification temps
for 20-30 minutes, then boil it.  When you add this *decoction* back into
the main mash, you raise the temperature.  Note that in the final decoction
(from saccharification to mashout) you do not take any grain, only liquid.
This has been the source of much confusion when reading Noonan's book,
Brewing Lager Beer, in which he says "the thickest part of the mash" and
"the thinnest part of the mash."  What he means is "grain" and "liquid"
respectively.

Furthermore, Kirk writes:
>concerned about it being too deep (for some reason).  What I DO notice about
>the grain bed is that it doesn't seem to have the gradient of particle size 
>often
>described: to wit, there isn't any detectable layer of fine dough on the 
>bottom, followed by successively coarser stuff on top.

It should be the other way around, but probably only in the very bottom
1-2" of the mash.  When you are recirculating the turbid runoff at the
beginning of the lauter, you are removing the small particles from the
bottom of the grain bed and depositing them on the top where they will
(hopefully) get trapped in the grain bed.  So, once the grain bed has
been established, the very bottom is large husk particles, followed by
smaller husk particles, etc.

********
MYETTE writes:
>Can someone explain to me how and why Lactose is used in homebrew?
> 
>Whats are its advantages and disadvantages? Anything special need to
>    be done when using it. Example: during brewing/mashing

Lactose is a sugar that is unfermentable by yeast.  It is commonly used
for making sweet stouts.  It is far less sweet than glucose or sucrose
or maltose, so you need to use quite a bit for a sweet beer.  I've used
between 1/2 and 1 pound per 5 gallons for a lightly sweet beer.  Really
sweet beers like the Caribbean Stouts (e.g. Dragon Stout) or beers like 
Mackeson's XXX Stout would need far more than 1 pound per 5 gallons.

You can add the lactose either in the boil or as late as bottling time,
but be sure to sanitize it by boiling it in some water.  If you add it
at bottling time, you can add it more "to taste."

One thing additional note of when using lactose: be extra careful with
sanitation.  Lactose *is* fermentable by lactobacillus and other bacteria!

*********
Jeff writes:
>New Belgium Brewing makes Fat Tire, an amber ale, Sunshine Wheat, a
>wheat beer obviously, and several Trappist ales:  Abbey, a single,
>Trippel, and an occasional Grand Cru.

Correction... unless Jeff has joined the order of Trappist Monks, he's
making Abbey, not Trappist, ales.  You might ask Jeff, next time you see
him, why did he add an extra "p" in "tripel?"

Al.

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Date: 31 Jan 95 15:50:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Garetz's utilization/protein rests

Aubrey writes:
>I also consider [HopTech] a Bible of info on Dry-Hopping. 

I think you should reconsider your source of hopping knowledge.  Mark
Garetz knows far less about brewing than he thinks he does.  He is confident
in his presentation, but that is all the more disturbing when he gives out
misinformation.  At least he should be honest when he is speculating.

*************
Patrick writes:
>When I questioned SUDS author Michael Taylor re: the new low hop calc
>algorithm, he said it did indeed come from Mark Garetz's research.

To call Mark Garetz's work with hops "research" is a grave mistake.
It may sound as if I have a personal vendetta against Mark and perhaps
I do.  Let me explain.  I am passionate about beer and homebrewing and
am deeply angered by the misinformation that Mark has been introducing
among homebrewers.   Mark appeared on the homebrewing scene about two
years ago, writing articles, posting to HBD, writing a book...  as if he
was some kind of hop expert.  In fact, he has been brewing less than
*3 years* now and wrote his book after less than two years experience.
Much of what he has written, including his book, is loosely based upon
his reading (and mis-reading) technical literature and then fabricating
formulas based upon nothing more than speculation.

To quote Dave in Sydney, who is quoting someone else:
>1. Garetz's *idea* that various flocculation characteristics affect
>utilization is sound; but his *number* to quantify it appears to be
>basically pulled out of the air.  There simply are no data to support it.

This is true of virtually all the formulas in his book "Using Hops."

So, yes, I am very strongly against what Garetz is spouting.  My intentions,
on the other hand, are purely for the betterment of homebrewing.  Despite the
fact that I do own a homebrew supply store, I do not do mailorder so I am not
in competition with HopTech... just in case you thought that might be my
motivation.

Thanks, by the way, to Dave for compiling all that information on utilization
numbers.  I've been very busy lately and subsequently had fallen behind in
my reading HBD.  I would have sent my own results if it hadn't been too late.
In any event, my research, albeit only a few datapoints for an article on
a completely different subject, appear to validate Jackie Rager's utilization
numbers (+10% which I added to compensate for hop bags) as long as you don't
use the blowoff method.

Fredrik writes:
>The problem is that even if Garetz numbers give an IBU which is closer to
>the scientific measurement, the "common IBU" seems to be corresponding to
>an utilization more like Rager's. So, for example, if you want to brew a
>beer to style according to the AHA specifications using Garetz' utilization
>numbers, you would have to adjust the AHA range accordingly.

As I said above, my research, although not nearly as extensive as Glenn
Tinseth's, proves that Rager's numbers are much closer to estimating
*scientifically measured IBUs* than Garetz's numbers (see my review of
Garetz's book in Zymurgy) which are *way off*.  In other words, Rager's
formulas are not a bad estimation of *real* IBUs.  Forget Garetz's formulas
 -- they will only brew overhopped beer!

*************
>Doug Flagg
>But this begs the question of what good a protein rest really is?
>Malt at 122 deg is not gelatinized so I don't see how the protein
>degrading enzymes can work.  A partial answer might be that they
>really don't; that this protein rest business is somewhat of a farce.
>I have read articles in "Brewing Techniques" and from Dr. Fix and from
>Dave Miller suggesting this.  Dave Miller, in his excellent book
>"Continental Pilsener" states "Recent research indicates that relatively
>little protein degradation takes place in the mash, regardless of
>temperature". Another article (which I can't put my hands on) said,
>in essence, that protein degradation takes place in the malting, not
>in the mash.

I assure you that George Fix is a firm believer in protein breakdown in
the mash!  My personal experience is that the temperature and length of
the protein rest can have a significant effect on both the head retention,
and more importantly, the body of the resulting beer.  In highly modified
malts, as virtually all malts are these days (yes, even German malts) it is
true that there is far less protein breakdown than in undermodified malts.

At the Spirit of Belgium conference, there was a brewmaster (who used to
brew in Belgium, but now brews in Germany) who spoke about modification
and mashing schedules.  He said that the German brewers are having big
problems with the grain they are currently getting from their maltsters.
It is far too well modified to work with the traditional mashing schedules
they have used for hundreds of years.  As a result, they are shortening
and altering the temperatures of their protein rests to compensate for the
overmodified malts.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 14:05:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Baier <BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU>
Subject: Suds Program

Okay, I have never thought of myself as an imbecile, and I
consider computers my friends.

But I CANNOT get a copy of Suds 3.1 from the archive site
that will boot up and run!  I have tried FTP, WWW, ftpmail, etc.
Yes, I got the executable version.  It just won't run.

Would anyone like to help me get a good copy of this program?
Specific procedural help about getting a copy via the 'net
would be fine, or I'll pay for postage and diskettes or whatever.
In light of recent posts, it sounds like 3.0c is the preferred version.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to help ease my frustration.

Tom Baier
Tacoma, WA
BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU



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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 17:23:27 -0500
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu
Subject: 10 gallon batches

Ed asks about convenient ways to do 10 gallon batches;

I have used this approach for the past 6 batches, each 10 gallons.

I use a 15 gal keg with a 14 inch opening cut out to fit a skillet lid, and
a 3/4 in ball valve just above the weld near the bottom. I also use Hop
pellets. I boil on a 18 inch high stand in my basement.

1)      Collect 11 gallons wort, boil 60-90 minutes, leaving about 10.5 gals.
2)      Insert immersion cooler. Place lid in the last 5 minutes of boil.
3)      Chill with cold tap water (ca 40 minutes). Remove chiller.
4)      Pitch with 2 quarts starter *directly into the boiling keg*.
        Leave lid in place.

Next day (day 2) (for the curious) Peek into the keg to see if Krausen is up.

On day 3 or 4, open ball valve and collect 10 gallons into two sanitized
Cornelius kegs. Tilt boiling keg to collect the last 1/2 gallon, avoiding
the well-settled trub and hops debris. Place lid and pressurize a tiny bit
to make good seal.

For a few days, bleed a little pressure each day. I have a gauge connected
to a gas-in line that I use to check to see how much needs to be bled.

That's it. The yeast is well settled by about day 8, though there is some
crap in the first pint or so. I bleed this off in the basement before
connecting the keg to my whole-house beer line. ;=)

That's it. I'm never going back to carboys.

Oh, I'm sure we'll hear from folks who will say that the break will inhibit
yeast growth or some such, but I have met 1x10^13 little buddies who
disagree. As far as the sanity (double meaning intended) of open
fermentation, I'm sure it is more sanitary than when I siphoned into two
carboys. These batches have been by far my best tasting too.

just one man's perspective....

dennis



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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 18:27:12 EST
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: complicated rims

Well, after a number of very helpful replies I feel that my computer controlled
RIMS might actually get built. Boy is my prof going to flip. I'll have to
invite him over for a brew session!

Many questions:
Firstly: experience. I have heard a number of good ideas about how to do
this, but who has actually built/own a computer controlled RIMS? Is it
really worth it? How automated can it get before it gets boring? How can
one computer control a valve to open/close without buyinng something truly
costly? Has anyone got a digital specific gravity meter? Where can I see
real RIMS?

I live in Toronto. Anyone know of suppliers/good junkyards(toronto has lots
of junkyards, but they can't all be good!). Basically I'd have to buy 
everything.

Anyone know how much a refractometer costs?

What about heat sources? I'd like to keep this inside, so any gas burning
setups could be dangerous. How else can this be done?

Cost will be a big factor. Any/all suggestion as to keeping costs down
would be greatly appreciated.

The more I think about this project, the giddier I get. I am loving this, 
even if my bank account doesn't!

	TIA
	Eamonn
	eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 16:18:02 MST
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Archives/kegging/quick beer

I know the archives have moved, I have even re-read the message
where we were all informed of this.  However, I still don't know where
they are now.  I don't know if I'm having ftp problems or if I'm in the
wrong place, but someone wanna' e-mail me the CURRENT archive location?
 
Thanks!
 
Obeer...
 
Thanks for the recent CO2 volume chart...I had been trying to get it
from the archives to no avail.  I had been experiencing SERIOUS carbonation
levels because I had been following the advice to carbonate to 30PSI for
2-3 days prior to tapping.  Thius did not take into account the 40F that I
have my kegs at.  Thanks again!
 
Quickie...I brew a batch this weekend to be ready to drink in three weeks.
(about half what I usually allow).  Preferred flavor: IPA.  All-grain
Preferred...if anyone has any good recipes that meet this bill, please
e-mail.  Thanks!
 
- -- Jeff Stampes -- NeoCAD, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff at neocad.com    --
- -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore.                -- 
- -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer!  --

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:54:23 -0500
From: rich at lenihan.iii.net (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: Wyeast 1968 / Request for tubing info / Gott info

Two questions and some input:

I've used Wyeast 1968 (the ESB) in 3 batches in the last 2 months with mixed
results. While I really like the flavor profile I get with it, I've been
less than impressed with its fermentability.  Batch 1 fermented from about
1.036 to 1.015.  I was a little short on beer at the time so I bottled it
anyway.  OK, but kind of sweet.  Batch 2 started at around 1.040, got stuck
around 1.022 and hasn't moved much since.  I've tried racking, rousing,
shaking - no luck.  It's been about a month now and I'll either aerate it or
dump it; I'm not sure if it's worth the bother.  Batch 3 had better luck.  I
aerated the wort for 30 minutes before and after pitching.  Beer started at
1.050 and after 1 week is
down to 1.014.  In each case I pitched about 2 ounces of yeast slurry (which
works fine for all my other beers, even the lagers) and in each case I had
no visible signs of fermentation for 24-36 hours (usual lag time <12 hours),
even with the batch I aerated. 

Question:  what are other people doing to get this beer to ferment out -
should I be pitching *more* yeast?  Nutrients?   

BTW, I've read here and elsewhere that this yeast is very flocculent and I'm
convinced.  In each batch the yeast cake was the consistency of tofu.  Also,
from what I've observed this yeast seems to do better in the high 60's.
Batch 2, the stuck batch, dropped to around 60F and that's about when the
gravity stopped falling.

Tubing:  I posted here before looking for sources for food grade plastic
tubing that can stand high (boiling) temps but my post seemed to fall
through the cracks.  I'm asking again - any pointers?  TIA.

Gott cooler mas/lauter tun input:   My most recent batch was done in my new
Gott setup.  Basically I have the 10gallon Gott cooler with a Phil's Phalse
Bottom (PPB).  I connected the PPB to the Gott thusly:  a) Remove spigot
assembly from Gott.  b) Place #3 drilled stopper into hole where spigot was.
3) Cut 8" piece of copper tubing and place it through hole in stopper.  4)
Connect copper tubing to hose barb on PPB with 2" vinyl tubing  5)  Place
more vinyl tubing on other end of copper tubing, use hose clamp to control
flow.   Notes: the only real problem I had with this was that some grains
got stuck under the PPB.  After recirculating a few quarts, the wort ran
free and clear.  The mash temperature lost only 4 degrees F over an hour (I
can probably improve this by not checking the temp. so often).  So far, I'm
satisfied.

Thanks,

 -Rich

p.s.  Check out my club's Web page:  

        http://www.iii.net/users/rich/worry-worts.html 

rich at lenihan.iii.net


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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 22:07:31 -0500
From: ac051 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Eric W. Miller)
Subject: Mosher Hop Utilization Numbers



David Draper gave a nice summary of hops utilization in HBD #1645.

He pointed out that his Mosher numbers were received second hand.  I
did a sanity check with Mosher's _Brewer's Companion_ and came up with
some slightly different numbers.

Mosher charts boiling time vs. wort gravity to estimate alpha acid
utilization.  He does this for both whole and pellet hops, with greater
utilization shown for pellets.  I believe the Rager numbers are also
based on pellets, at a specific gravity of 1.050.

The following are my attempts to read the values off of Mosher's charts
for SG 1.050.  Any errors are my own.

Time (min)   Pellets   Whole
   15          11.5     8.5
   30          16.5    12.3
   45          20.0    15.0
   60          23.0    17.0
   90          27.0    20.3

As you can see, the pellet data show a higher utilization at the low
end than any of the other approximations.  Like the whole hops data,
Mosher's pellet data shows very little of the 45 minute elbow seen in
the other approximations.

Eric Miller

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 23:29:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Joseph R Tristano <jrtst5+ at pitt.edu>
Subject: Fermentation of very first homebrew

I'm currently brewing my first batch of beer.  On saturday morning I 
boiled my wort and used a hooped malt extract and followed the 
instruction pamphlet that came with the kit.  I have had serious problems 
with fermentation.   Its not ???!!?!?!?!?!
Here are some notes of what happened

I used Polar (r) spring water as my brewing water .  Is this OK???

I filled my fermentaion lock halfway with a B-Brite water solution.

I had the ale at 60 F then was told that ale should be fermented at 72 F

so i moved the wort to my bathroom with the temp around 70 F.

I thought that that that was too low so i filled my tub up with hot water 
around 80 F and am currently letting the fermentation bucket sit in there.
My sister heard the air lock bubble ( Does this mean it is finally 
starting) or am i screwed??????

		Please Help !!!!!!!


		Thank you

		Joe Tristano 		jrtst5+ at pitt.edu
	


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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 00:25:32 -0500
From: Pulsifer at aol.com
Subject: Chloramine

   I recently purchased the Miller book and am interested in improving my
city water.  The Ca is 100 ppm.  The carbonates are 100 ppm.  The pH is 8.0.
 I can probably improve the carbonates and the pH by boiling the water which
will also improve the chlorine.  The city water also contains chloramine.  Is
there any reasonable method for removing this?  Do I need to remove this?  Is
the pH important for extract only brewing?  I can adjust most of my water
conditions based on the hints in Miller's book, but he does not discuss
chloramine.

Dean A. Pulsifer



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Date: 01 Feb 1995 08:31:24 GMT
From: Gateway at wellfleet.com (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1646 (February 01, 1995)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

tcardoza,FirstClass (The name was not found at the remote site. Check that
the name has been entered correctly.)


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Date: 01 Feb 95 06:17:14 EST
From: Joe Hoffer <73377.433 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Listserve

request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com



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Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 07:41:42 EST
From: Robert Bloodworth ZFBTO - MT0054 <debaydr9 at ibmmail.com>
Subject: Water analysis for Koelsch: German degree of hardness

  
For those of you interested in the previously posted water analysis for Koeln
(Cologne):
  
The total hardness includes alkaline earth cations (Ca, Mg) and carbonates. The
definition is not internationally normed and is based on the weight of a
standard substance which would be added to give a solution of equivalent
hardness. This can also be expressed in  milliequivalents of ions for a clearer
comparison.
  
German deg. of hardness   1 dH = 10   mg CaO/liter   = 0.357 mequ/liter
French deg. of hardness   1 fH = 10   mg CaCO3/liter = 0.200 mequ/liter
English deg. of hardness  1 eH = 14.3 mg CaCO3/liter = 0.286 mequ/liter
American deg. of hardness 1 aH = 10   mg CaCO3/liter = 0.200 mequ/liter
  
The hardness due to carbonates is the sum of bicarbonate and carbonate anions.
  
"The great thing about standards is
that there are so many to choose from."
  
Bob Bloodworth
Cologne

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Date:          Wed, 1 Feb 1995 08:33:00 EST5EDT
From: "Thomas W. Ausfeld" <TOM at sp1.dhmc.dartmouth.edu>
Subject:       DME Shelf life, Decoction Question

First: What kind of shelf life can I expect from DME (dried malt 
extract for the abbreviationally impared)?

Secondly: I keep hearing that bringing grains to higher than 170F, I 
risk an increase leeching out tannins from the husks. I have done 6 
all-grain beers and I'm very happy with the results.  I'm planning a 
lager and would like to do it with a decoction mash. I have not 
performed a decoction mash as of yet, but have been doing alot of reading.  My 
understanding is that you remove some of the mash (including grains) 
and boil it.  Am I missing something here or am I worrying to damn 
much about tannins?
Tom Ausfeld (TOM at SP1.dhmc.dartmouth.edu)
Newbury, Vermont

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Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 09:12:29 EST
From: SnowMS_at_CNTORSSA at CCIP.PERKIN-ELMER.COM
Subject: Ultraviolet light


     Kirk Harralson asks about the purplish light at the water tap. This 
     light is ultraviolet not infrared and if the tube is transparent to 
     the UV wavelengths, it is very effective at killing "bugs". With 
     regard to the water chiller leaking, I went to the hardware store and 
     bought a brass hose fitting and silver brazed it(don't use any with 
     Cd!). Then just attach a garden hose. Otherwise you can attach 
     compression fittings, use Swagelok if possible (the best,IMHO).
     Miles 

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Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 09:06:59 EST
From: kevinm at rocdec.roc.wayne.edu (Kevin McEnhill)
Subject: Stuff from #1646

Howdy,
	After lurking around for almost a year, I tought I would put
 my $0.01 (there is a sale today 8^) in.

Kirt Harralson 
##############
	That light that you see at the water station is not IR but 
is UV. I have been told that UV has more energy than IR and kills 
most of the nasties the lurk around.
	About your leaking wort chiller, you could try compression 
fittings. I don't know what your system looks like so you are going to 
have to make the call, but those things hardly ever leak. The draw back 
to them is that they are permanent. If you have to slide something over 
the end of the tube to take it apart then you can't use them.

Ronald Dwelle
#############
	If your bottles break from the boiling wort, try preheating 
them in the oven before you fill them. Preheating will reduce the 
thermal stress that the glass has to handle. That is the same reason 
that you have cold water in the carboy before dumping the hot wort in.
Try about 180 degrees F, and you also get the bonus of killing anything 
that might be still alive in your bottles.

Phil Miller
###########
	The light bulb that you use for heat in your brew fridge 
probably has a short life span, I have an igana in the house and he needs 
to be about 80-90 degrees F. I used to heat his cage at night the same 
way you heat your fridge, a bulb wraped in foil, but the bulb would only
last about a month before it burned out. What I have now is a ceramic 
heater that screws into a light socket but does not give off any light. 
I have had mine on for a year now and it is still going. The only thing 
that could be wrong with it for your setup is that I have never seen them 
smaller that 100 watts. I think that you said that you use 20 watts. 
Maybe you could hook it up to a dimmer switch to cool it down a little.



**********************************************************************
*                             *  /|~~~~~| I was told by my wife that *
* kevinm at rocdec.roc.wayne.edu * | |     | if I brew one more batch   *
*                             * | |     | of beer she would leave me!*
* Kevin McEnhill              *  \|     |                            *
*                             *   |_____|  I'm going to miss her :-) *
**********************************************************************

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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 15:21:35 +0100
From: Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl)
Subject: hop utilization fit

"Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> writes:
>has anyone devised equations for any of the hop utilization data tables
>     hop utilization =3D f(time, malt concentration)?

=46irstly, a correction: the utilization is a function of time only (or is
regarded as such by most homebrewers, I think). The correction for gravity
appears in the IBU calculation. This seems to be the most common formula:

IBU =3D 7490 * AAU * Utilization / Volume / (1 + Adjustment)

where
  AAU =3D %Alpha in decimals * Ounces
  Volume =3D boil volume of wort in US gallons
  Adjustment =3D 0 if SG (of boiled wort) < 1.050 , else (SG - 1.050) * 5

=46or metric units (AAU in %*grams, Volume in liters) use 1000 instead of 74=
90.

Now to the answer of the question. I have made nonlinear fits with
Mathematica (tm) to some of the common utilization tables:

Rager:

0.186906 + 0.150222 * Tanh(0.0484772 * (boiltime - 32.3893))

Garetz, slow yeast:

0.0840962 + 0.0905326 * Tanh(0.0680408 * (boiltime - 28.5246))

Garetz, average yeast:

0.104635 + 0.112329 * Tanh(0.0684079 * (boiltime - 28.8976))

Garetz, fast yeast:

0.124048 + 0.132366 * Tanh(0.0712121 * (boiltime - 28.6739))

Tinseth:

0.152829 + 0.116953 * Tanh(0.0610702 * (boiltime - 27.0089))

(Boiltime in minutes, utilization in decimals.)

You can, of course, drop some significant figures. The formulas are rough
approximations anyway and I deliberately used some weights to make the
graphs fit better.

One thing to remember is that the utilization is approximately 10% larger
if you use pellets instead of whole hops and 10% less if you use a hop bag.
Rager's numbers seem to be for pellets and all the others for whole hops.

I was not aware of Tinseth's figures until I read the post from Dave Draper
yesterday. Seems I had an older version of the hop faq. (Thanks, Dave!) I
now use Tinseth's numbers, as they seem to fit well with my experience.
YMMV.

Hope this helps!

=46redrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se



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Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 07:24:03 -0700
From: stanf at indirect.com (Stan Fisher)
Subject: r.e. Iodine Test Strips - Where?

>of the solution.  Bet most of you, too, were under the false
>assumption that if it was still orange, it would sanitize, well I have
>learned that is false information and I want to find out what is
>accurate information.

Woah!!!  Does anyone have an idea of the shelf life of a jug of Iodophor?
I've been using the same gallon jug for well over a year now.  It sits at 
garage ambient which runs from 40 to 110 degrees F through the year.  It 
still smells like Iodine and suds up if you use too strong a concentration.
If we don't have the means to test it's effectivness, what rule of thumb
should we use for product life?

Stan

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Stan Fisher       |       stanf at indirect.com  - 165.247.1.4
 (602) 893-3620 (H)  |             I brew therefore I am.
 (602) 389-8653 (W)  |  Friends don't let friends drink Light Beer.


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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:31:17 -0500 (EST)
From: david lawrence shea <dshea at ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: Adding hops hopped kits/carbonation/carbonation of Hefeweizen

Greg Hawley asked about adding hops to hopped kits:

I have been doing all-grain for about a year now and probably won't go 
back to extracts.  However, if I were to, I would use unhopped extracts.  
It seems to me that the product is more similar to the wort we get from 
the great sparging, except it has water removed.  You can schedule hops 
and other grains the same way as you could if you were all-grain 
brewing.  You would have more control over the final product.  Don't get 
me wrong, I have brewed extract beers from hopped kits and had great 
results.  I am just giving you some of my thoughts.

Kevin Staub asked about carbonation levels:

Carbonation after one week may be a bit on the low side, especially 
during the winter months when the house is generally 10 degrees cooler or 
so.  Usually I give my beers two weeks before I decide there is a 
problem.  Also, if those babies were put in the refrigerator or kept in 
low temperatures (below 60F or so), they will not carbonate quickly and 
make take many weeks.  Make sure they are at room temperature for a week 
or two before chilling.  (You probably are doing this already, but 
thought I would throw it in).

I ask today:

I know part of the Hefeweizen style is to have relatively high 
carbonation, does the yeast enhance carbonation levels?  After four weeks 
in the bottles, the carbonation level is far too high.  I was fairly 
certain that fermentation was complete and I didn't over prime.  There is 
no infection because the beer in my mini-kegs is some of the best beer I 
have ever brewed.  Any ideas?


David L. Shea
Indiana University
dshea at ucs.indiana.edu


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1647, 02/02/95