HOMEBREW Digest #1650 Mon 06 February 1995

Digest #1649 Digest #1651

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Gravity? (Douglas R. Jones)
  RE: Halogens and Stainless ("Palmer.John")
  Brew shop (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
  Wyeast 1968 ESB (James Russ)
  Sanitizing SS/Isinglass&primings/fermenting on break/tubing/decoction (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  HBD #1647 (Barry_Gillott)
  hop utilization and IBUs (Bryan L. Gros)
  Loss of Carbonation with Mini-Keg (Chris Strickland)
  Re: Dry hopping (TomF775202)
  Re: Hop utilization (TomF775202)
  Re: Stuck lautering oatmeal (TomF775202)
  Re: 10 gallon batches (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Bottle Washing, Cant we get this straight? ("Robert W. Mech")
  Andechs Recipe (Robert Bloodworth                            ZFBTO    - MT0054)
  How should I use DRY chiles? (Robert Rybczynski)
  Homebrew Digest #1648 (February 03, 1995) -Reply (James Veach)
  Motorized mills ("Manning Martin MP")
  Lager bottling (Ed Blonski)
  EM vs. IM ("Harralson, Kirk")
  Re: Control Theory (Dion Hollenbeck)
  PBS Brewing systems (Dave Rahn)
  Motorizing Malt Mills (GRMarkel)
  Real Ale Conditioning ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  mash tun/boiler question (Matthew Howell)
  Reverse Osmosis Water ("Harrington, Stephen J")
  Picobreweries? (John Keane)
  Washing Bottles with a Dishwasher ("Rebecca S. Myers")
  1995 Bluebonnet Brew Off (9th annual) (D.D. Simon)
  Re: control theory (Bill Vaughan)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 13:24:05 -0600 From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) Subject: Gravity? I have been given the basic recipe for a commercial beer that I love. But the folks gave me the gravity in numbers I do not comprehend. I am assuming that they are in Plato (?). They are: O.G. 11.5 - 12 F.G. 2.5 - 3 Can anyone translate this for me? Also if the recipe calls for Belgian 2 Row is this equivalent to either Belgian Pilsner or Belgian Pale Malt> TIA, Doug - -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zepplin | (214)301-1307 | djones at iex.com - -------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Feb 1995 13:41:29 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: RE: Halogens and Stainless Gunther suggested that Iodine, being a Halogen like Chlorine, would be equally damaging to stainless steel. He recommended the use of Metabisulfite for sanitizing stainless steel kegs. Well, I can't find any data. The one data point I did find in the ASM Handbook of Corrosion Data, read as follows: For 304 Stainless Steel, Conditions: Soap Processing; field or plant test; no aeration; | rapid agitation. Plus 11% isopropyl alcohol, | Probably comparable 2% hydrochloric acid, remainder nonionic detergent. | to Iodophor Concentration = 10% (vol) | More severe than our conc. of Iodophor. Temperature = 22C/72F Duration of Test = 90 days | Corrosion Rate = .0071 inch/year | ie. Minimal In addition, given the fact that Iodophor was originally manufactured for use in the Food Services Industry, which predominately uses 300 series stainless steel utensils and containers, I imagine that corrosion as a result of its primary application is not a problem. Furthermore, the fact that I searched several volumes of the Metals Handbook and could find no mention of Iodine, except with respect to elevated temperature attack on Tantalum, leads me to conclude that there is no problem with its use re. stainless. Re: Metabisulfite, I believe I have read that it is effective for killing wild yeasts in wines, but not effective at sanitizing containers. Metallurgically, I could not find any data on it. John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com Huntington Beach, California *Brewing is Fun* Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Feb 95 14:28:00 -0600 From: mlm01 at intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132) Subject: Brew shop This message is to inform all brewers in the Naperville, Wheaton, Warrenville, Winfield area that there is a new brew shop. The name of the shop is BEER IN A BOX 27W460 Beecher St. Winfield, IL 708-690-8150 800-506-BREW The store is located at the corner of Winfield Rd. and Beecher St. in the Winfield Market Square Liquor Store. They offer a 5% discount to new customers. They also run a Brew of the month club (Mail order microbrew). I have no affiliation with the shop, just a homebrewer happy to see a choice of shops in the area. Mike Montgomery mlm01 at intgp1.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 15:10:56 -0800 From: jrus at suned1.Nswses.Navy.Mil (James Russ) Subject: Wyeast 1968 ESB This is a response to Rich Lenihan's use of Wyeast 1968 ESB. The last batch of brew I made used this yeast with what I thought was pretty good success. I too was getting worried after about a day with no signs of fermentation. Like you described the visible signs of fermentation took ~36 hours. This is the procedure I used. After racking the wort into the primary I pitched about 2 ounces of yeast slurry and aerated the wort about 5 minutes each hour for 4 hours. The beer started at 1.048 and fermented out to 1.015 after 6 days; temp was approx. 68 deg. throughout fermentation. There's my 2 cents. ___________________________ | \ _____ | James Russ \ \ \__ _____ | jrus at suned1.nswses.navy.mil \__________\ \/______\___\__________ | Tomahawk Systems Engineer / \/_/ TLAM `-. | (805)982-8326 Fax 985-9507 / `+++++-----,----,-----------' |___________________________/ _/____/ Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Feb 95 16:26:00 -0600 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Sanitizing SS/Isinglass&primings/fermenting on break/tubing/decoction Gunther writes: >As it turns out, all halogens attack stainless steel, including >iodine. Sodium or potassium metabilsulphide should be your choice. I defer to John Palmer on the first point, but want to point out that that should have been metabisulphite and that neither of these are sanitizers -- they merely inhibit yeast (and bacterial ?) activity when added to an acidic solution (like wine must). I've read where beer is not quite acidic enought for it to work so it is recommended to be used only for sanitizing wine must or fruit juices. Putting bisulphites (aka Campden tablets) in water DOES NOT make sanitizing solution. ******** Kirk writes: >we'd like to add the >isinglass when we go into the keg; however, we'd also >like to prime in the keg. > >The question is: can one do both of these and expect >it all to work? Specifically, does the isinglass precipitate >the yeast as well as the proteins, and if so, is there any >reasonable way to clarify with isinglass and yet not >have to force carbonate? Yes. Of course. This is how the British brewers do it -- they add the isinglass and primings at the same time (when it's put in the cask). The job of the isinglass is *primarily* to fine the yeast out of suspension, but that does not mean that it removes the yeast from being active in the cask. As long as you don't fine, *then transfer* and prime, you should have no problems. Just remember that the carbonation level of a Bitter is far lower than the level of virtually any other style. *********** Dennis writes: >Oh, I'm sure we'll hear from folks who will say that the break will inhibit >yeast growth or some such, but I have met 1x10^13 little buddies who >disagree. As far as the sanity (double meaning intended) of open >fermentation, I'm sure it is more sanitary than when I siphoned into two >carboys. These batches have been by far my best tasting too. On the contrary... your yeast should like the trub -- they can actually use it for nutrition during respiration. Regarding your sanity, er... sanitation, the two-quart starter reduces your risk of noticable infection to virtually nil and indeed, as you say, going from kettle to keg without the carboy in the interim also reduces sanitation worries. The one thing that you may want to pay attention to is higher alcohols. It has been reported that fermenting on the break can increase the production of higher alcohols. However, there are even some commercial breweries that ferment on the break, so if you are happy with the beer, there's no need to change anything. ************** Rich writes: >Tubing: I posted here before looking for sources for food grade plastic >tubing that can stand high (boiling) temps but my post seemed to fall >through the cracks. I'm asking again - any pointers? TIA. HDPE tubing (that milky, water-line tubing at the hardware store) gets a little soft and spongy at boiling temps, but if it does not have to hold pressure, you should be okay. More expensive choices are (from the Cole-Parmer catalog): PharMed (275F), Norprene Food Grade (275F), Tygon Food Grade (180F) and Silicone (500F, but mind you, Silicone's oxygen permiability is 300 times that of the others -- keep that in mind if you plan to use this for dispensing finished beer with it also). There's also polypropylene (275F) tubing available also, and some PP is food grade, but it's quite stiff and thus hard to work with. Here's something... Bev-A-Line V (200F)... it's FDA, USDA and USP aproved. Thay also have Teflon PTFE (500F) tubing here also, which is FDA approved, but it's over $50 for 12 feet of 3/8" OD and more for the bigger stuff. Cole-Parmer is in Chicago and can be reached at 800-323-4340 (708-647-7600). In general, their prices are about 200% of sources like hardware stores for similar items. ********** Tom writes: >I have not >performed a decoction mash as of yet, but have been doing alot of reading. My >understanding is that you remove some of the mash (including grains) >and boil it. Am I missing something here or am I worrying to damn >much about tannins? Yes and Yes... you are missing pH *and* worrying too much. As long as your pH is in the low 5's, you need not worry about extracting tannins during the decoctions. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 08:59:25 est From: Barry_Gillott at DGC.ceo.dg.com Subject: HBD #1647 Message: Tom Baier <BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU> writes: >But I CANNOT get a copy of Suds 3.1 from the archive site >that will boot up and run! I have tried FTP, WWW, ftpmail, etc. Tom, were you in binary mode when you ftp'ed the executable? I believe you must be. Before "get"ting the file, just say "bin". Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca> writes: >How can one computer control a valve to open/close without buying >something truly costly? Eamonn, I was wondering if a solenoid valve from a forced hot water furnace would do the trick for you. (This may not be priced low enough for you though. You might check with a heating supply place.) Of course, you'll need to use something like a relay to step up the voltage to whatever the solenoid needs. For a heat source, how about the heating element(s) out of a discarded electric water heater? Again, you'll need a relay, since these (mine) use 240 VAC. Hope these ideas help. - Barry Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:15:50 -0800 From: bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros) Subject: hop utilization and IBUs The point about utilization varying depending on whether you use whole hops or pellets is a good one. Especially if Garetz doesn't report what kind he is presenting data for. Garetz does present a good method of estimating IBUs in your homebrew. This may be a good check for his formula for calculating IBUs. My homebrew club ran this experiment and it worked quite well. Let's say you make a pale ale with (according to Garetz formula) 40IBUs of bitterness. Get a reference beer with a known amount of IBUs, like Budweiser. Jackson's and Eckhardt's books give actual IBUs of various commercial beers. Garetz describes the process in detail, but you add a known amount of hop oil to your reference beer until the bitterness tastes the same as the bitterness in your pale ale. You can then calculate the bitterness of your reference by adding the IBUs that Bud started with to the number of IBUs that you added. Now you can estimate the IBUs in your pale ale using both Garetz formula and Rager's formula (or whoever's). See which one matches the IBUs in the reference beer above. I'll try this with my next beer and report back. - Bryan bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 20:55:23 -0500 From: cstrick at iu.net (Chris Strickland) Subject: Loss of Carbonation with Mini-Keg For some reason, my last two mini-kegs have lost carbonation. I'm using the hand-pump with natural carbonation. The last two kegs I've tapped are making a low hissing sound (obvious loss of carbonation). Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what was the problem and how was it fixed? I hate to throw the beer away because it's flat. Could the bungs be getting old and not making a good seal? - -------------- Chris Strickland cstrick at iu.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:55:44 -0500 From: TomF775202 at aol.com Subject: Re: Dry hopping If you dry hop in the keg, your beer will change throughout the duration of serving. This is not all bad, many "real ales" are hopped in the cask. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:52:07 -0500 From: TomF775202 at aol.com Subject: Re: Hop utilization I use Mark Garetz formula with only the gravity correction. I find it very acurate. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:52:16 -0500 From: TomF775202 at aol.com Subject: Re: Stuck lautering oatmeal Try using a percentage of 6-row in your mash. The extraction rate is less (use 10% more). The size of the kernel will greatly reduce the possibilities of a stuck mash. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 16:56:45 EDT From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: 10 gallon batches Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen Dennis said: | 4) Pitch with 2 quarts starter *directly into the boiling keg*. | Leave lid in place. What about aeration? Isn't this a problem? Aidan e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 03:29:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net> Subject: Bottle Washing, Cant we get this straight? Ok folks, I dont know why I dont just make this a faq, but here goes. Ive been using bottles now for quite some time. Usualy I deal with the grolsh kind, however, I do use some non-grolsh style. In either case, heres the lowdown on how to wash your bottles, and still be anal about sterilization. First of you should have the following equipment on hand. A "Jet" style bottle washer. A Bottle Brush A Dishwasher Dishwasher Detergent TSP, Chempro, or other sanatizing agent. Procedure. Rinse bottles with bottle washer, use bottle brush if needed. Place bottles on only 1 rack of dishwasher. On most dishwasher, the top rack gets about 1/3 the amount of washing power, and it does not seem to do as good of a job. After dishwasher is filled with bottles, use your Chempro, TSP, etc. in your SECONDARY washer cups. This is *usualy* the ones you fill first, then flip/move the detergent door. Then fill the primary with Dishwasher detergent. Run a complete dishwasher cycle includeing heat dry. Let it also be known, that you should *NOT* fill your secondary cups with Chempro, tsp, etc. I use about 1 tsp for a whole dishwasher load, I use Chempro. Cautions/Concerns/Questions Q: What type of detergent should I use? A: Ive used, about 6 different kinds, I usualy just buy whats on sale, I have no used a "Liquid" type, only the dry stuff. Q: What about the washers on grolsh style bottles, do they warp? A: I thought they would, but they seem to hold up fine. If you are paranoid about it, then take em off, but it doesnt seem necessary. Q: Why use Chempro, TSP, etc, in the secondary cups? A: Ive found that this rinses off any residue that the detergent soap leaves behind. Ive never noticed *ANY* off flavors, head retention problems, what not from using the Chempro in the secondary cycle. I *DID* however notice an off flavor when using the one cycle method, this *MAY* have been due to a particular detergent. Q: Why wash them first? A: This gets rid of the sediment and other junk that manages to dry up or stay in your bottle. Washing them first cleans the "Junk" out, the purpose of the dishwasher is to clean them with detergent inside and out, and also to sterilize them better than you can do by hand. If you leave stuff in your bottles and it makes it to the DRY cycle, imagine how much harder its going to be to get off your bottle once its been baked on. Q: Do I have to use Chempro, Tsp, etc? A: No, you can just leave the secondary cups empty, however you do run a better chance of leaving some detergent there. You can use just about any "Clean Rinsing" sanatizing agent. Ive not tried iodine, but I cant see any reason not to either. That about covers it. Sorry for the long post, I hope this clears it up for everyone. Rob -- Robert W. Mech | All Grain HomeBrewer. President, Fermentors At Large Elk Grove, IL. | Author Of "Frugal Brewers Guide To Brewing Aids" rwmech at ais.net | For More Information: http://www.cl.ais.net/~rwmech Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 07:46:09 EST From: Robert Bloodworth ZFBTO - MT0054 <debaydr9 at ibmmail.com> Subject: Andechs Recipe Does anyone out there have a good recipe for Andechs, that dark brown nektar from those taented monks at Kloster Andechs north of Munich? Extract, all grain, with or without following the Reinheitsgebot.., everything goes. I am willing to take any and all steps necessary to prepare it. E-Mail replys are welcome. Thanks in advance. Bob Bloodworth Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:19:20 -0500 From: Robert Rybczynski <robert at umbc.edu> Subject: How should I use DRY chiles? A friend gets large containers of dry chile peppers from her family in California. She loves hot, spicy foods and has asked me to make a chile beer for her. I realize that fresh peppers are more appropriate, but we'd rather not turn up our noses at a lifetime supply of FREE dry peppers. Any help, especially successful recipes, would be greatly appreciated! Adjustments for working with dry fruit would also be very helpful. BTW, she calls them "chinese" chiles. They are red and look roughly like a long, large jalepeno. They are quite hot. My friend is Mexican, brought up in the Mexican tradition (i.e., super-hot food; she drinks Tabasco Sauce right out of the bottle). Even she finds the peppers to be hot. Robert Rybczynski robert at umbc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 09:22:46 -0500 From: James Veach <james.veach at arch2.nara.gov> Subject: Homebrew Digest #1648 (February 03, 1995) -Reply retrieve Homebrew Digest#1648 Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Feb 1995 09:33:40 U From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com> Subject: Motorized mills Dion Hollenbeck warns of potential grain mill damage from a direct drive system like I am using on my Glatt. Actually, the mill-half of the split coupling I am using is only clamped to the mill's drive shaft, with a (longitudinally) split bushing. The coupling's set screw squeezes the split bushing together on the mill's power input shaft (there is no key or flat on the shaft), and this connection will slip if over loaded. Concerning foreign objects jammed in the rollers, this might not pose a hazzard to the mill's drive gears, depending on the object. If in such an event the rollers are locked together rigidly by the object, a rock, say, the load path will be through the mill's drive shaft, rollers, the foreign object, and ultimately into the mill's frame through its bearings (not through the gears). If the mill can digest the object (or objects, like hard wheat berries), there may be loads which attempt to force the rollers out of sync, and gear damage could occur. Since these forces are reacted between the components of the mill, shaft input torque may not even be an adequate safety valve. I think I'll stay away from unmalted wheat, based on the reports of others. My preference for the direct drive system stems mainly from its compactness. A 12" pulley on the mill's shaft would extend forward in close proximity to the grist chute, and below the mill's bottom mounting surface. My mill and motor are mounted to a 6" x 18" flat plate with rubber feet on the bottom. The mill/motor combination can therefore be placed on the edge of any flat surface, such as a table, with a bucket placed below the grist chute. MPM Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 09:15:33 -0600 From: s851001 at umslvma.umsl.edu (Ed Blonski) Subject: Lager bottling Greetings, friends. I'll try to make this short. I made a Czech pilsner and I bottled it about a week ago. I've got a question What temp to I let it sit at. The homebrew store told me this was a lager, so I was pleased that it has been chilly here. The details: 8 lbs Munton Fison light malt extract (dry) 1 bl plae ale malt English 2 row (LD Carlson) 2.5 Saaz Hop plugs Czech Pilsner yeast (from a liquid culture) date started 1/15 SG 1.062 bottled 1/28 FG 1.020 its been in the bottle for about a week sitting in my basement fridge (about 40 degrees.) Yesterday I took it out of the fridge and let it sit at about 60 degrees. Any help is appreciated. E-mail is fine! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Blonski (s851001 at umslvma.umsl.edu) "One likes to believe in the Rush fan (the band and the man!) Freedom of Email!" TNMS Titus 1:5-9 "One humanoid escapee" NP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 95 10:21:50 EST From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at roadnet.ups.com> Subject: EM vs. IM Andrew J Donohue writes: >I posted this to RCB with no response so I'll try here. I >tried Irish moss for the first time on my last batch. I use >an easy masher in a 1/2 keg for a kettle. When I tried to >drain the wort into my fermenter the EM clogged presumably >with break material an irish moss. I always use whole hops >and have never had this problem without the IM. Is there >a trick to this or should I just avoid IM with my system? Nothing will clog an EM faster than using IM. I even tried propping my kettle at an angle while chilling to try to get all the break material on one side, but that didn't do it either. I have also tried attaching a piece of siphon hose to the spigot and blowing air through the EM to clear it, but it quickly clogged back up. I ended up picking up the kettle and pouring it through a clean but unsanitized funnel to get it into the carboy. Of course, it ended up infected. My only solution, so far, is to either not use IM, or remove the screen part of the EM between the sparge and the boil, drain everything from the kettle into the carboy, and rack to a second carboy as soon as possible. Some people use a racking cane with a copper scrungee attached -- this may be the easiest solution. I have also heard of people using a slotted copper ring that just fits the inner circumference of their kettle and siphons out the top in the usual manner. The wort is "whirlpooled" so that all break material gathers in the middle (I still don't know how to do this if you use an immersion chiller...). It shouldn't be too hard to connect a similar ring to the spigot part of the EM once the screen was removed. Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 07:40:00 PST From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Control Theory >>>>> "Norm" == npyle <Norman> writes: Norm> Teddy Winstead goes into some detail about control systems, Norm> including "Bang-bang", PD/PID, and AI (artificial intelligence). Norm> What you neglected to mention Teddy is another method called AI Norm> (Actual Intelligence). A little trial and error gets you to the Norm> final result much quicker than you might think from reading Norm> textbooks. Overshoot isn't even the biggest problem with Norm> "bang-bang". Frying the enzymes in the small sample being Norm> heated is the biggest problem area with this type of system. Norm> So, using Actual Intelligence, one would adjust flow rates and Norm> heating power to avoid overheating the recirculating liquid, and Norm> this inherently avoids overshoot. Think about it. I would Norm> recommend manual control of these parameters (possibly just one Norm> of them) for a few reasons: it is simple, less-expensive, and Norm> keeps you involved in the brewing process (which I consider a Norm> good thing). A side benefit is of course, you don't have to do Norm> all that studying about control theory! Sorry, Norm, but I really gotta disagree with you on this one. While in principle I agree that being involved in the brewing process is a good thing, in practice this is very dangerous in a RIMS system. Before I got my proportional temp controller built, I had the pump and heater all done and wanted to use my system (read, play with the new toy). So instead of a temp controller, I hooked up a simple on/off switch. Really involved and simple. Just watch the temp readout and when you come within so many degrees (by trial and error) turn off the heat and the thermal mass catching up will slide gently up to the temperature. All fine in theory unless you get to talking with a guest brewer and forget that you just turned *off* the switch, see the temp sliding up to the setpoint real fast and *turn off the switch* (remember, it was already off, so now you just turned it *ON*). Since there is a very large thermal mass, the fact that the heater has gone back on will not register until much later, in fact until it is too late to turn off the switch and prevent the many degree overshoot which will happen. All of this is not theory, but my own tragic experience. I came within a hair's breadth of killing the enzymes in the first 10 minutes of the mash cycle. From that time on, I was hunched over the switch, muttering to myself "is it on or off, which way is it really????" The rest of my mash was tense and unpleasant. I don't know about anyone else, but I built a RIMS system so I could *RELAX* during the mashing process. All I have to do is be able to correctly read my watch and turn a dial to the correct temperature at the correct time. I am involved in the brewing process, usually explaining it to new brewers. If I had to be on the switch to control the temperature, I would never again have anyone over who would possible distract me, and the joy of spreading the word of homebrewing by teaching it while watching it happen would be lost in my brewhouse. You might argue that you could use some sort of dimmer switch on the heater, but I do not know of any reasonably priced dimmer switch that will handle 12 amps (remember, the RIMS is using a 4500 220V heater element run on 110V at 1250 watts - 11.3 amps). My proportional temp controller is *much* less expensive than a dimmer which will handle that kind of current. Which leaves us back at an on/off switch, unless you have some other alternative. Besides, the temp controller is not that hard to build. You can buy for $185 if you are really elecro-phobic. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 08:53:23 PST From: Dave Rahn <david.rahn at quintus.com> Subject: PBS Brewing systems Has anyone had any experience with this company or its products? They have an interesting set of offerings for all grain brewing that go all the way to a RIMS option. Does this setup work well, are they a quality outfit, any precautions here? Thanks! - David Rahn Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:53:42 -0500 From: GRMarkel at aol.com Subject: Motorizing Malt Mills Just another note on motorizing malt mills. I've been through 2 revisions of motorizing a "Malt Mill". The power source was a 1/10th HP gearmotor with a 30 RPM output and torque rating of 113 in/lbs. The reason for this motor selection? Easy - it was free! The 113 in/lbs seems like enough (in my seat of the pants engineering judgement), the 30 RPM a little slow, (based on hand cranking speed) but the price was right. The first design was mounted behind the "Malt Mill" and driven via a 1/2" timing belt. This was OK but always had problems with belt tension and skipping teeth (slipping) under load. I also didn't like the idea of side loading the driven roll, my fear was the bronze bushing would die a premature death. But it did work, (although slowly) providing a good crush. The 2nd revision I pulled out all the stops, remounting the mill on an elevated platform hold both the motor and mill, allowing the collection bucket to slide in and out without lifting the mill and motor,(as in revision 1) and replaced the belt drive with an in-line jaw type coupling. This has been in service at my local homebrew shop for the past 9 months with no problems. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 95 09:41:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Real Ale Conditioning In HBD #1648 <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> answers Ferguson who answered me re: "cask condxing vs. keg priming", and says >...I do not prime and I do not fine Please excuse me for needing so much hand-holding--but let me verify I understand. Are you saying that a 3 week secondary fermentation/conditioning in your pressure vessels is sufficient to both clarify and carbonate to your taste? Is your 3 week minimum condxing period at ~room temperature? BTW, when we used isinglass for the first and only time I added it incrementally as we pumped our chilled wort from the fermenter into the keg, then tried as best we could to agitate without sloshing too much. I noticed absolutely no indication of clarification--the beer is still fairly opaque (it's a brown ale) after three weeks in the cooler, and is definitely not "bright". I have no point, I'm just relaying results and trolling for comments. -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil -BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 09:42:20 -0500 From: Matthew Howell <howell at ll.mit.edu> Subject: mash tun/boiler question Greetings everyone! The other day my father and I were downing a few homebrewed stouts, and the talk turned to brewing equipment. We were discussing ways to reduce the risk of a scorched mash when direct heating is used. ( I mash in a converted keg, BTW) My father suggested employing a double-boiler type setup to eliminate direct contact with the flame, and still allow the use of a Cajun cooker as a heat source. This seems plausible, the only drawbacks I can see are a possibly longer period of time to reach the temp. rests, and less precise temp. control. Has anyone used this arrangement, and if so, would you care to comment? Thanks to all. Matt howell at ll.mit.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Feb 1995 09:26:11 -0800 From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington at msmail4.hac.com> Subject: Reverse Osmosis Water Greetings! I have been away from my cherished hobby for almost 6 months now (bought a new house, remodelling the new house (including kitchen), etc...). There is nothing like reading the HBD for a week or two to get you chomping at the bit to brew again. So....... To celebrate the completion of the kitchen remodel, I am going to brew a batch of IPA. This brings me to my question. The kitchen has an RO water system (which is great -- LA water is not the best). I am wondering what impact this will have on my brewing. I have done one all-grain up to now, and want to continue to learn this more advanced technique. Should I not use the RO water, and if I do use it, does it need to be doctored up with some additives? TIA, Stephen Harrington Manhattan Beach, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:37:39 -0500 From: John Keane <keane at cs.rutgers.edu> Subject: Picobreweries? [:-) mode on]: I've noticed that a number of the contributors to HBD identify their brewing operations as "The So-and-so Picobrewery". Now I've been labeling under the proud name of "Schwartzenkeane's *Nano*brewery" (a concatenation of my wife's surname with my own; our motto: "Fine Beers Since Sometime in April"). Just to pick a nit or two, if the definition of a microbrewery (10**-6 brewery) given in the rec.food.drink FAQ is correct: 2-8. What are the categories of brewers/breweries? According to the Institute of Brewing there are four categories as follows: Large Brewers - Production in excess of 500,000 barrels/year Regional Brewers - Production between 15,000 and 500,000 bbl/yr >> Microbrewers - Production less than 15,000 bbl/yr << Brewpubs - Production for onsite consumption only In addition you may see/hear the term pico-brewer which is used to describe brewers so small that distribution is limited to pubs and bars in their immediate area. then a nanobrewery (10**-9 brewery) should have production of less than 15 bbl/year, and a picobrewery (10**-12 brewery) should have a production of less than .015 bbl/year, or roughly half a gallon or so! Surely y'all are doing better than that! [:-) mode off]: _John_ Schwartzenkeane's Nanobrewery ...and darn proud of it Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:27:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Rebecca S. Myers" <rmyers at netcom.com> Subject: Washing Bottles with a Dishwasher A couple of months ago I asked whether or not using a dishwasher really got bottles clean enough to not require further arduous treatment. These are the responses I got. Tom Cannon: We put clean bottles in the dishwasher with B-Brite instead of dishwashing soap and run through a full sanitizing cycle. It works great, but I would be worried about putting dirty bottles in. This method only gets around the Bleach Soak/Rinse part. M. Demers: Just put bleach in where the detergent normally goes. Also, rinse the bottles out that have sludge in the bottom before you put them in the washer and you should be golden. John DeCarlo: I wash all my bottles in the dishwasher, immediately after emptying them. It seems to do fine with bottles on the bottom rack. Those on the top rack aren't as reliably cleaned. So at sanitation time I make sure they are all clean. Different dishwasher geometries may affect this. I would try a test with flour at the bottom of a dozen bottles and see which ones get cleaned. Rick Larsen: I'd recommend you staying with your four-step method [soak, rinse, bleach, rinse]. I haven't used a dishwasher but many friends have with poor results. I think bottle washing is not much fun but I wouldn't want it to screw up my beer. Steve Chandler: I EXCLUSIVELY use my diswasher with no detergent prior to bottling my beer. I used it for the last 6 batches and have no problems or complaints. My washer has a 'heat dry' cycle which kicks the temperature up to a point where I have to wait a couple of hours for the bottles to cool before I handle them. Of course I leave the washer buttoned up during this entire period. I also use the washer door as a platform to bottle, which makes cleanup a lot easier. After all this sage advice, I myself decided to stay with the hand method. It's the only way to be sure. Becky Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 13:10:26 -0600 From: D.D. Simon <dds1 at esygvl.com> Subject: 1995 Bluebonnet Brew Off (9th annual) This post may be a repeat for some of you, and I apologize in advance; My home address mailer is somewhat unreliable, and I wanted to make sure the word got out. The 1995 Bluebonnet Committee is pleased to announce the 9th Annual Bluebonnet Brew-off. Not just a competition, but also an exhibition of the best available brewing gurus in the west. March 31-April 1st, 1995 will be the time for this event held in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex to crown the Bluebonnet Brewer of the Year. This year we will have a keynote address from Charlie Papazian. Dave Miller will give a presentation, and Dr. George Fix will anchor our Brewing Experts panel. The Bluebonnet will accept entries in the same categories described for the 1995 AHA National competition. First place winners will receive a 13" Custom-made Stein and a blue ribbon. Other entrants will receive ribbons for finishing second or third. The Bluebonnet Brewer of the Year is expected to receive the opportunity to brew one of their winning beers at a local prize-winning brewpub. Information packets have been sent to most home brew shops across the country, and to many homebrew clubs. If you cannot find a copy of the information packet locally, I can send you the E-mail version. Come join us in Dallas-Ft. Worth! We were the second largest regional competition in the U.S. last year, and undoubtedly one of the best! Darrell Simon 1995 Bluebonnet Committee secretary. dds1 at esygvl.com d_simon at dfwlug.decus.org For further information. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:12:35 -0800 From: bill at oilsystems.com (Bill Vaughan) Subject: Re: control theory Norman Pyle writes: >Teddy Winstead goes into some detail about control systems, including >"Bang-bang", PD/PID, and AI (artificial intelligence). What you neglected to >mention Teddy is another method called AI (Actual Intelligence). A little >trial and error gets you to the final result much quicker than you might think >from reading textbooks. Overshoot isn't even the biggest problem with >"bang-bang". Frying the enzymes in the small sample being heated is the >biggest problem area with this type of system. So, using Actual Intelligence, >one would adjust flow rates and heating power to avoid overheating the >recirculating liquid, and this inherently avoids overshoot. Think about it. >I would recommend manual control of these parameters (possibly just one of >them) for a few reasons: it is simple, less-expensive, and keeps you >involved in the brewing process (which I consider a good thing). A side >benefit is of course, you don't have to do all that studying about control >theory! I've been doing process control software for nearly twenty years and I do know something about it. And not to be too blunt, Winstead is pretty much right, and Pyle is pretty much wrong. The question, after all, was how to build an automatic controller for a RIMS system, not whether automatic control is morally right. I don't have a RIMS, and I control my mashes manually. But if you have a RIMS, it makes some sense to want to control it automatically. A simple thermostatic control is "bang-bang" rather than proportional, and will tend to overshoot -- maybe a lot. To avoid overshoot, you need a control system that adjusts the heat continuously, hopefully with some reference to the actual temperature and its rate of change. Which, after all, is what you do manually. If you want a decent automatic controller, a PID or fuzzy-logic (Winstead's "AI") control algorithm is likely to be best. You can get such a thing off the shelf, though they are expensive. Don't try to do a PID controller at home. Though the theory is quite simple, the devil is in the details, and there are a lot of them. A fuzzy controller might be easier. It doesn't matter whether you know control theory or not -- it still applies. Overshoot is nearly unavoidable in all feedback control systems, whether manual or automatic. Oscillation and chaos, which can be worse than overshoot, are also hard to avoid. This is particularly true in processes with large transport or "dead" times, like controlling the temperature of a RIMS, or of your bathroom shower, for that matter. Explaining this would take a lot more bandwidth than I want to use here. I suspect no one on this forum, including Pyle, really thinks that ignorance is desirable -- his flame was a cheap shot and quite out of place. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Bill Vaughan Software Engineer | | bill at oilsystems.com Oil Systems, Inc. | | (510) 297-5834 San Leandro, CA | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | "Things should be as simple as possible, but no simpler" --Einstein | | "Simple is as simple does" --F. Gump | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:39:23 -0800 From: Bob Regent <regent at hooked.net> Subject: WORLD CUP OF BEER HOMEBREW COMPETITION FIRST ANNUAL WORLD CUP OF BEER HOMEBREW COMPETITION Fellow Homebrewers, In the spirit of recognizing the development of endemic styles of beer, the Bay Area Mashers (Northern California) are proud to present the 1st annualWorld Cup of Beer Homebrew Competition. The competition is sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association, and is being sponsored by numerous west coast beer related businesses. The deadline for receiving entries is March 15, 1994; judging will be conducted on March 26, in Oakland. All beers will be judged by experienced judges, including local professional brewers and Dr. Michael Lewis of UC Davis. Ribbons and prizes will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finishers in each category, and to Best of Show. After judging, we invite you to a party at the nearby Barclays Pub and Restaurant to celebrate all efforts and award the winners. This will be an excellent opportunity to share homebrew and interact with the professional and amateur brewers who are reviving quality brewing in the Bay Area. To receive more information via email including style descriptions and entry forms, please send an email request to : klein at physics.berkeley.edu and indicate whether you want to receive a text or postscript package; or if you would like to receive the information via US mail. Sincerely, David Klein Competition Coordinator (510) 527-4508 Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1650, 02/06/95