HOMEBREW Digest #1654 Fri 10 February 1995

Digest #1653 Digest #1655

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Belgian Dubbel/SS repair (DCB2)
  Wort Chiller Leakage ("Robert W. Mech")
  Improving extraction efficiency in a Gott Cooler setup ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
  FAQ - Grains - Re: Fullers ESB (GRMarkel)
  5L carbonation problem (Steve Bernholtz)
  Re:  Keg Sanitation (Allan Rubinoff)
  casking at home / cloudy beer problem / sealing corny kegs ("I see them through a crystal haze, And hear them bouncing round the room  08-Feb-1995 0924 -0500")
  Corny Keg Seals ("Richard Scotty")
  Sanitizing SS (Mark Kempisty - 957-8365)
  Pressure relief valves (Dave Pike)
  BJCP / spent grain (npyle) <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
  Feedback Control/RIMS/Temperature Pickup ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Feeback Request: UK-Oriented Homebrewing ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Real Ale Conditioning/Aeration in Secondary ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Lager carbonation (COX003)
  [Re: Real Ale Conditioning] (I.J.Normington)
  cask condition/6-row/cloudy brew/removing rubber/keg sealing/Laaglander (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Scorching vs Carmelizing ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  IBU judging (Bryan L. Gros)
  computer run RIMS / immersion chiller vote (Eamonn McKernan)
  Converting to All-Grain brewing (Franklin Fuller)
  Bounced mail--please send an address (" Bob Paolino, Research Analyst")
  culturing Chimay yeast (John Landreman)
  HWBTA National Competition Results? (Lynn Danielson)
  Indirectly heated mash tuns (Culver City Home Brewing Supply)
  Water Adjustments (Pulsifer)
  Re: control theory (DONBREW)
  Vanilla Beer, The last comment on the BJCP here. ("Lee Bussy")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 1:08:45 PST From: DCB2%OPS%DCPP at bangate.pge.com Subject: Belgian Dubbel/SS repair Paul had asked if anyone had a recipe for Belgian Dubbel. I used this recipe when I did my first mashing. It came out dark and quite strong. Since the bitterness is rather low it has a deceptive sweetness about it that masks it true strength and a lot of body. Know your limit<g>. For 5 gallons (US) use: 9.5 lbs pale malt 4 oz. Crystal malt (20 deg L) 4 oz. Brown malt 3/4 lbs Sugar Bittering Hops: 1 oz. Styrian (5% alpha) .3 oz. Hallertauer Aroma Hops: .3 oz Saaz Soft water is recommended with a mash temperature (single infusion) of 150-152 Deg F O.G. 1.065 F.G. 1.013 (Both estimated) 3 oz priming sugar or 2-2.5 volumes of CO2 I also used a trapist ale yeast starter. Ronald Dwelle has pinholes in his SS Brewpot, I believe he said. I suggest silver soldering. Although SS can be welded, a brewpot is so thin that it would be hard to weld without burning through. Silver solder is foodgrade and works on Stainless. I used to use a propane torch (instead of acetelyne) because I felt I had better control when mending thin SS pieces. The metal has to be clean and ample flux used. Hope this helps someone out there. David Boe DCB2 at pge.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 05:04:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net> Subject: Wort Chiller Leakage I keep seeing elaborate posts on how to keep homeade wort chillers from leaking. For those of you who havent read the "Frugal Brewers Guide To Brewing Aids" (yes that was an intentional plug), there is a very INEXPENSIVE way to stop your wort chiller from leaking. Simply go out to your local Automotive shop, and get some radiator hose. This stuff is super cheap, and comes in like 100million different sizes. ID, OD, you name it. You can just bring in your garden hose, and the copper tubing. The automotive guys usualy are more than helpful considering that most of them have never heard of a wort chiller, let alone brewing beer at home, and want to hear all about how they can make beer :-). It usualy takes about 2 pieces or so to "Make the connection". I just use an automotive clamp to tighten it all up. I think I spent about $2.00 including the clamps. Most of the automotive hoses cost ya about $.20 a foot. Its not the most elaborate or pretty way to stop it from leaking, but it DOES work well, and cheap. The last Post I saw talked about buying alot of fittings and connectors, I think this might be a tad more frugal than all those connectors and fittings. Also, let it be known that this is for IMMERSION style chillers. Im not sure if you want your wort flowing partialy through radiator hose if you are using a CF Chiller. Ive used the above method, and to this day, ive YET to have a leak from my chiller. Ive used this chiller now for over 15 batches. - -- Robert W. Mech | All Grain HomeBrewer. President, Fermentors At Large Elk Grove, IL. | Author Of "Frugal Brewers Guide To Brewing Aids" rwmech at ais.net | For More Information: http://www.cl.ais.net/~rwmech Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 7:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV> Subject: Improving extraction efficiency in a Gott Cooler setup Subject: Improving extrraction efficiency with Gott Cooler Setup Hello everyone! Once again I am dismayed at my poor extraction efficiency. I have brewed all-grain beers for about a year now using a Zapap lauter tun setup. for Christmas I gott a 10 gallon Gott cooler and a Phil's Phalse Bottom. After using it twice, I am rather disappointed at my low extraction efficiency. Several weeks ago I whined to the collective wisdom of this esteemed digest, and most suggested that I sparge for a longer period of time (I was sparging for about 20 minutes). Well, this weekend Ibrewed again, and got a low extraction efficiency. I'd like to hear from brewers who use a Gott/Phalse bottom setup so I can ask questions regarding procedure. If you will allow me to pick your collective brains now, please indulge me while I briefly relate my protocol. AMBER ALE 10 lbs american 2-row pale malt 1 lb Vienna Malt 1/2 lb Cara-pils malt 1 lb light Crystal malt 1/2 lb crystal malt (60L) 1/2 cup chocolate malt 1 ounce Cascade hops (boil) 1/2 ounce Fuggles hops (flavor) 1/2 ounce Cascade hops (finishing) 1000 ml Yeast starter- Wyeast Chico Ale Mash grains in 4.3 gallons of water at 75 degC, to bring temp to 67 degC. Hols at 64-67degC for 1 hour and 20 minutes. Sparge with 4 gallons of 77 degC water. (Mash pH was between 5.0 and 5.5). Collect wort, boil for one hour etc etc. Chill with wort chiller. Pour into fermenter, allowing pelletized hops and cold break to settle for a few hours. Rack wort to another clean fermenter. Aerate, pitch yeast. O.G. reading was 1.059. Using 13 lbs of grain, I calculate an extraction efficiency of 59*5/13= 22.7 points/pound/gallon. I know that I will lose a bit because I allowed the trub to settle and racked off it into another fermenter, but this is still low. Do I assume that the specialty malts have the same extraction potential as the A-2? Am I calculating this correctly? My grain was purchased from a local supply store and milled with a Glatt mill. I would hate to think that I am getting shortchanged on my grain purchase (that might throw my numbers off). What else can I attribute my low extract to? I sParged very slowly, keeping the temp up over a period of about 45 minutes. Also, I measured the s.g.as I sparged, and it got down to 1.005 or so (so I am convinced that I got most of the sugar out). I hate to whine again, but I am striving to improve my brewing procedure. Some of you might say "Chill out, just use more grain to get a higher O.G. in your system", but I am considering making some higher gravity ales that would require a ton of grain given my low efficiency. Anyway, I would like to hear from anybody with some ideas. I'd really like to hear from those of you who use a Gott and a phalse bottom. Again, I am sorry to waste bandwidth with my personal problems, but I am here to brew better beer in a better way. I'm always up for some self improvement, anyway. TIA in advance. Rick Gontarek Owner/brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery Baltimore, MD gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:01:36 -0500 From: GRMarkel at aol.com Subject: FAQ - Grains - Re: Fullers ESB A couple of months ago someone submitted a summary of grains and their uses. I thought it was going to be entered as a FAQ - grains but after searching the sanford site I could not locate it. If someone could tell me what number(s) of HBD this summary appeared in, it would be a great help. Another note to Jim Busch - I read your entry the other day and the name "Fuller's ESB" caught my eye. This is a beer I've always enjoyed. Any chance you'll share your recipe with us? I keep trying to duplicate it but keep missing the mark. Thanks!! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 07:05:18 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Bernholtz <sbernhol at uhl.uiowa.edu> Subject: 5L carbonation problem I've had a carbonation problem of another kind, When I went to grab a bottle of my winter ale last night I checked the 2 mini-kegs that I had. The bungs (the hard part, not the soft part) had popped out some time ago, unnoticed by me. The kegs are not dented or anything, but I've lost 10 L of beer. I damned near cried because it was aging properly and was starting to taste pretty good. Has anyone ever had this problem? I have kegged before so I know how to set the bung. Steve, the bald chemist Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 09:25:07 EST From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at BBN.COM> Subject: Re: Keg Sanitation In HBD #1652, roberson at hydroxide.chem.utah.edu (Mark Roberson) writes: > "Chlorine" bleach as used by brewers is not elemental Chlorine but >sodium hypochlorite (NaClO). The active agent, singlet Oxygen, is >extremely reactive and quite tiny. Thus I am hardly surprised that >bleach corrodes stainless steel while iodine is safe. Does this imply that sodium percarbonate (e.g., B-Brite) will also corrode stainless steel? My understanding is that the active agent in sodium percarbonate is also oxygen. I occasionally fill my SS brewpot with a B-Brite solution to clean off the beerstone, and haven't noticed any corrosion. Is this stuff likely to damage the pot in the long run? Thanks, Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at bbn.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 09:30:03 EST From: "I see them through a crystal haze, And hear them bouncing round the room 08-Feb-1995 0924 -0500" <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: casking at home / cloudy beer problem / sealing corny kegs >Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 10:52:47 EST >From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) >Subject: casking / chlorine&SS / vinyl hose > > Can I "cask condition" in the small soda-type kegs? I'd like to try > kegging, but don't want to screw with the C02 tanks (I also think I > like natural carbonation better). Is there a faq on cask-ing (as > opposed to "kegging") somewhere? Refer me to a book? What's the reason > to add CO2 in the first place? Why not let the yeasties do it? sure, you can do this easily. instead of a secondary fermentation in a carboy, just secondary ferment in the corny keg. i usually keg after 2-3 days of primary ferment. if you wait longer, i'd suggest adding 1/3c of corn sugar to the keg. give it a good shake and let it sit. Why do you need CO2? couple of reasons. 1. you'll have head-space in the keg. use the co2 to purge the oxegen out. 2. eventually, when you serve the beer, you'll run outta natural co2 pressure... addition co2 is use to dispense. you can always gravity tap the keg, however, you will be introducing oxegen, and therefore should probably finish it off within 5 days before the beer spoils. >Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 09:16:45 PST >From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder) >Subject: Cloudy Beer Problem > >For the past three or four months my beers have been coming out cloudy. Even >several weeks of cold conditioning does not clear the beer. I have made >some changes in my mashing proceedure, and I was wondering if the collective >wisdom could help shed light on my problem. The beer taste just fine and the >"numbers" are exactly on target for my process. My changes are : 1. little or >no protien rest (50C). 2. Dropped Lactic Acid water treatment. 3. 3 tbs of >gypsum (an increase of 1 tbs. ; 10 gal batches). well, you asked for a suggestion not using finings, but i'm gonna give ya one anyways :-). i've had great success with irish moss. rehydrate 24 hrs before boiling. dump it in during the boil. you'll get very clear brews. >Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 16:32:31 -0500 >From: lovelace at pop.nih.gov (Chris Lovelace) >Subject: sealing a Corny keg > >I've just gotten a kegging setup and I'm trying to figure out how to get a >good seal on my pin-lock keg. The gasket on the bung is flexible and >appears to be in good shape, but whenever I try to pressurize the keg, it >leaks. The keg was pressureized when I got it, so there must be a way...I >just can't find it. what i do is put a _very_slim_ coat of vaseline on the rubber seal. very thin!! this really helps the seal form. jc Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Feb 1995 08:06:21 U From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com> Subject: Corny Keg Seals There have been a couple of posts lately lamenting the inability to get a good seal on their Cornelius kegs. There are a couple of easy steps to assure a good seal on these kegs. First, be sure to inspect the flange on the keg and the lip on the hatch to make sure that they are in good shape and haven't been bent or dented. They need to be straight to seal. Second and most importantly, purchase a new hatch gasket - these can be had for a couple of bucks from any good brew shop that sells kegging equipment. I found that not only couldn't I rely on the original gaskets due to deformation, I couldn't ever get the odor of the soda syrup out of the damn things and didn't want to take the chance that it would produce some nasty effect on my brew. I have occasionally replaced the poppet and fitting gaskets if they were particularly grungy or had been torn, but I have used the existing gaskets here without detrimental effects. To maintain the new gaskets in good condition, I leave the hatches loose on my kegs when not in use. This may allow the gasket to return to its original shape and it may not, but I figure it can't hurt. All of the original hatch gaskets I've seen on these kegs when purchased appear to be flat spotted because they've been compressed for extended periods (this is probably due in part to the relatively high pressures they are subjected to when dispensing soda syrup). With these simple steps, I've never had one of my kegs leak (serious temptation of the brew gods here). Gassily yours ;-> Rich Scotty Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 10:43:09 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Kempisty - 957-8365 <MKEMPISTY at gic.gi.com> Subject: Sanitizing SS Well, with all the observations and negatives of using chlorine on stainless steel a question comes up in my mind. How do the BudMillOors guys do it? They refill kegs, they have to sanitize them, so what do they use? Mark Kempisty Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 08:29:51 -0800 From: Dave Pike <davep at cirrus.com> Subject: Pressure relief valves Does anyone know of, or use, automatic pressure release valves while fermenting in corny kegs? It seems to me that if you could set a pressure of about 15 to 18 psi, and then secondary ferment(or krausen(sp)), then you could avoid force carbonation or even priming(read over or under priming). What about in thosee Grainger catalogs I keep reading about? Thanks, Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 10:02:07 MST From: Norman Pyle (npyle) <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: BJCP / spent grain I for one, can't help but see this AHA/BJCP/HBWTA split as a power struggle. If so, this can do homebrewing no good at all. I'd like to hear some discussion from current BJCP judges on this. What's going on here, folks? ** For Aaron Dionne, I use my spent grains for either compost, or mulch. Many of the city flower beds in this area are mulched with spent grains from the various microbreweries, as well. The birds like it and the soil likes it. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 13:05:27 -0500 From: Bill at cvumail.cvu.cssd.k12.vt.us Subject: SEVERAL OF YOU COMMENTED UPON THE PROPOSED REVISION OF MY BOOK "MAKING BEER." THE BOOK IS OUT NOW, AND I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY COMMENTS, PRO OR CON. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 10:15:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Feedback Control/RIMS/Temperature Pickup Dion asks: >I have not personally heard of any systems built with > the temperature readout in the mash tun, but it may >be possible. Anybody out there do this? I just finished building a quick-detachable thermometer for the the mash tun and tested it with water only, so I'm just exposing my design for you review and comment. Coming directly off the outside of the mash tub is a short section o1/2" copper line terminated with a brass/bronze union. The mating section of the union is soldered to a detachable assembly centered around a 1/2" copper "T". The "through" section of the "T" is oriented with its axis vertical--the portion pointing directly upward is terminated with a female 1/2" NPT coupling, into which I have a 3" diameter stainless steel, bi-metal autoclave thermometer. The section of the "T" which points directly downward connects up closely to a ball valve, which in turn is connected via silicone tubing to our pump. With this arrangement, wort from the mash tub (pulled from the bottom of the tub, underneath the screen) flows over the stainless thermometer probe continuously during recirculation. By using Teflon on the thermometer threads, it's a simple matter to maintain a seal and to also easily remove the unit for inspection/cleaning. [My current design acceptance criteria includes the requirement to be able to see or at least mechanically clean ALL surfaces that ever come into contact with wort, hot or cold]. We have only one way to heat the mash: with the MondoBurner we built (described previously in r.c.b and at The Brewery). Because very few or no grains touch the bottom of the tub, we've never seen any evidence of scorching, even having done 10 minute max-thrust burns. I personally like this heating system overall, although my partner has recommended adding a smaller burner or a more controllable one for maintaining temperatures. The thermometer will indicate the temperature of wort that just came from the heating "pan", i.e., the surface of the keg just exposed to MondoBurner. I argue that because the period of the entire wort circulation cycle is small (~8 gallons of mash liquor pumped at ~7GPM) my temp reading *is* the temp, for all practical purposes. What we don't know (among many other things :->) is whether we can actually pump that fast thru the grain bed or not. TBD. My feeling is by heating the 1.5 gal or so of clear mash under the screen rather than heating a small amount in a percolator analog, we do two things. One, we prevent the chance of toasting the mash when trying to do a step-up, and two, we have better insight into the systems real response. Caveat: we haven't done a mash with this setup yet! Pretty big caveat, eh?! **Prepare for intended _humor_, please...** And Dion--you must be an engineer, no? Anyone else might have simply marked the ON/OFF heater switch with a Dymo label saying "ON" and "OFF". But no, the obvious solution to you was a proportional control unit, of course!!! (REAL Big Grin) Kirk R Fleming -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil -BEER: It's not for breakfast anymore. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 10:43:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Feeback Request: UK-Oriented Homebrewing Brian: I've now seen two of your HBD posts and assume you haven't seen any responses. I'm replying publicly because I would like HBD reader's thoughts here, too. MY OPINION: I do believe you when you say UK brewers have special problems due to our differences in equipment and methods, and I also understand it may be true you have trouble getting answers to questions related to those unique aspects of your brewing. My concern, though, is based on the following: There are many of us brewers in the States who hold as our most favorite beers those we feel (or know firsthand) are UK-unique. There are also many here in the states who are devoted to brewing closer to what we think (or perhaps know) to be good "traditional" UK brewing. And finally, much if not most of our supplies come from the the UK, as did the Sex Pistols, I believe. So....although I feel strongly you should have your own news group if you want one (and shouldn't have to answer to anyone to put one in place), I for one would hate to lose insight into whatever it is you're doing with beer over there. I don't mind subscribing to another news group and don't see what harm it could do--but I'm a USENET neophyte. Kirk R Fleming -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil -BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 12:23:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Real Ale Conditioning/Aeration in Secondary RE: HBD #1652 Brian Gowland says >At 48-72 hours I "drop" the beer...a traditional British method >[wherein the brewer transfers] the fermenting wort into a clean fermenter >WITH aeration...[leaving] the dirty yeast head and...trub behind This is pretty cool. This technique works well for Brian and I bet it will work well when I try it too. Question for you yeast-meisters is: how does this bounce against what I thought were many recommendations to limit aeration to at most the first 24 hours, and with the yeast cycle curve I think I remember from Papazian showing the aerobic cycle lasting out to about 48 hours? I could be recalling the chart incorrectly, but I'm sure I was told or read that aeration is bad after 24 hours. Anyone? Kirk R Fleming flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 14:22:24 -0500 (EST) From: COX003 at WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU Subject: Lager carbonation Well a friend and i are getting ready to bottle a 15 gallon batch of a pils that was brewed way back in early november. Its primary ferment was at 50 degrees for about one week then down to 40 degrees for about three weeks and finally since then hovering around thirty. The gravity is 1.009 so it is defintly done working, and as a side that gravity figure was taken about two and half weeks ago. The question: Will it carbonate after such a long lagering time or will we have to use the "krausening" procedure (not really krausening since we didn't save any of the orginal green beer.)(but we could make up a 2 quart batch of the same recipe and pitch it into the beer at high krausen) Any ideas? thanks aaron Cox003 at wscub.ctstateu.edu err wrong adress sorry cox003wcsub.ctstateu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 13:20:06 GMT From: I.J.Normington at bnr.co.uk Subject: [Re: Real Ale Conditioning] In HBD 1650, "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> wrote: > Please excuse me for needing so much hand-holding--but let > me verify I understand. Are you saying that a 3 week > secondary fermentation/conditioning in your pressure > vessels is sufficient to both clarify and carbonate to > your taste? Is your 3 week minimum condxing period > at ~room temperature? In HBD 1652, Brain Gowland then gave us a very good description of his fermenting and conditioning process. I would just like to say that my process is more or less the same of Brians (I too use the Graham Wheeler brewing text). I would ferment a typical ale in the primary for about 3 days, then transfer to a secondary where it sits under airlock for about 4 or 5 days (sometimes longer if I'm too busy). I then confirm that I have achieved my target gravity and, if so, transfer to my Boots Pressure Barrel which then sits in a cool room for 2-3 weeks to condition. I always get a bright, clear and fresh tasting ale this way and have never had any problems. I have a CO2 adaptor connected through the barrel lid so that a blanket of C02 can be put over the beer. I should point out that this C02 is not intended to carbonate the beer, just allows me to keep the beer fresher for longer and make it easier to dispense. Cheers, Ian Normington Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Feb 95 13:45:00 -0600 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: cask condition/6-row/cloudy brew/removing rubber/keg sealing/Laaglander Ron writes: > Can I "cask condition" in the small soda-type kegs? I'd like to try > kegging, but don't want to screw with the C02 tanks (I also think I > like natural carbonation better). Is there a faq on cask-ing (as > opposed to "kegging") somewhere? Refer me to a book? What's the reason > to add CO2 in the first place? Why not let the yeasties do it? The CO2 produced by the priming sugar (even with American- or Belgian-style carbonation rates) is not enough to dispense the entire 5 gallons. You can dispense via gravity (i.e. turn the Cornelius keg on its side and dispense through the gas-in fitting, but unless you let air (or CO2) in to displace the beer that has left the keg, your beer will soon be completely flat (even as a Real Ale) and will actually stop flowing at some point. If you allow air in, then the beer will begin to oxidize quite quickly. The average keg of Real Ale is meant to be consumed within about a week -- three to four days being even better. Stronger ales can handle a bit longer. I dispense my Real Ales with a beer engine and I let air in while I'm pumping, but afterwords, I purge-out the air that went in with CO2. This way, I can have a cask last well over three weeks with no noticable oxidation. ******** P.G. writes: >I am confused by his comment on reduced extraction [from 6-row barley], >however. Being >that six-row barley is enzymatically more powerful than two-row, wouldn't it >follow that it would yield a higher rate of extraction? Six-row barley has a lower starch-to-weight ratio (i.e. a smaller percentage of the total weight of a kernel is starch) than two-row barley. The extra enzymes will help you convert non-enzymatic grains, but can't give you more yield by itself. ******** Ken writes: >For the past three or four months my beers have been coming out cloudy. Even >several weeks of cold conditioning does not clear the beer. I have made >some changes in my mashing proceedure, and I was wondering if the collective >wisdom could help shed light on my problem. The beer taste just fine and the >"numbers" are exactly on target for my process. My changes are : 1. little or >no protien rest (50C). 2. Dropped Lactic Acid water treatment. 3. 3 tbs of >gypsum (an increase of 1 tbs. ; 10 gal batches). <pH and the rest of Ken's process looks fine, so I did not include it> There are two parts of the process which you did not mention, but can be the cause of your cloudiness. 1. Could you have a wild yeast or bacterial infection? (old hoses, infected yeast source, stratched fermenters...) 2. Could you be sparging too hot (i.e. over 170F) and liberating unconverted starch from the grain bed? ****** Doug writes: >Which finally brings me to my question, is there any way to remove rubber >without affecting the stainless steel? I would hate to lose such a nice keg. Yes. Elbow grease. Take an old toothbrush and brush till the rubber all wears off. I suppose you could use fine steel wool, but I believe you would have to use *stainless* steel wool (if you can find it). I recall reading somewhere that regular steel wool should not be used on stainless steel. ******* Chris writes: >good seal on my pin-lock keg. The gasket on the bung is flexible and >appears to be in good shape, but whenever I try to pressurize the keg, it >leaks. If the lid and opening are not bent, you probably need to buy a new gasket. They do wear out and in fact, you should replace at least the big gasket because it probably smells of soda and will taint your beer. ***** Mel writes: >Question - is there something about about Lagglander dry malts that is >keeping me from hitting my s.g targets? I.E. - 1 lb should equal ~10 >points in 5 gal, correct? You are being way too optimistic with the contribution of any dried malt extract. I use 42 points/lb/gal for DME, which using your example, would be 1 pound will give you about 8.4 points in 5 gallons. Most syrups only give 32-36 points/lb/gal. >I was expecting it to get to ~1.018 or so and it >pretty much stopped at 1.021. Does the Lagglander have a lot of other, >non-fermentables in it? Bingo. >The shops here lately seem to be carrying more Lagg than M&F dry malts so >that is why I used it. If I use it again, I am definitely going to make >sure I keep a lb or two of honey at hand, but that really defeats one's >attempts at 'all malt' brewing... Should I just expect to use more Lagg. >dry in my recipes? Both M&F and Laaglander are fine extracts and both give about the same contribution to OG, just M&F tends to finish quite a bit drier than Laaglander. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 13:24:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Scorching vs Carmelizing RE: HBD #1652 where Jeremy says: >One of the biggest problems I foresaw when designing my 1/2 BBL >brewery was that of applying the heat without scorching, especially >under the false bottom This one of several references I've seen to scorching, most if not all of them coming from RIMS and automatic feedback control thereof. The contexts imply "scorching" here means locally raising the mash temperature up too high for enzyme comfort (some references refer to denaturing and consequent reduced extraction). First, am I correct that this is how the term is being used, and that it is NOT referring to actual carmelization in the mash tub? Secondly, how does this concern bounce against some commercial equipment making use of high-pressure steam percolators (see The Practical Brewer)? I thought of designing a percolator before seeing reference to them in TPB, but dismissed this as a sure way to toast the entire mash, 100 ml at a time. If in fact local overheating (but not necessarily carmelizing) is the concern, I see no problem with a direct-fired system that pumps from the bottom of the tub at a sufficient rate. "Sufficient" should be indicated by a thermometer measuring the mash temperature immediately as it comes off the tub bottom, eh? Offhand, the double-boiler concept seems impractical for keg-based mashing, and would dampen system response to an even worse level than it already is. For stovetop, it seems like a cool idea, however. Kirk R Fleming -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 12:41:30 -0800 From: bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros) Subject: IBU judging Al commented on my description of Mark Garetz method of comparing a beer with a known amount of IBUs to your homebrew to estimate it's IBUs. >Here's a test for you: compare Liberty Ale and bottled >Guinness. Which has more bitterness? Now, which has >more IBUs? Liberty is more bitter to the taste, but bottled >Guinness has more IBUs. > ... > >Bottom line: the method is virtually useless. > Al's point is good that it is difficult to judge the relative bitterness of two beers when they differ in maltiness, body, hop aroma etc. But I think it is not impossible. At our club meeting where we did this experiment, we used hopped Budweiser as the standard and Anchor Steam (we weren't told what the test beer was ahead of time) as the test. These are two fairly different beers, but since bitterness is perceived at the back of the tongue, with a bit of concentration you can compare "bitterness" pretty well. Our club votes gave the test beer 45IBUs, which is about what Eckhardt reports for Anchor Steam. My main point is that this method will give you a reasonable etimate for your homebrew; the error should be less than the differences between Rager's and Garetz' formulas for estimating the IBUs. Anyone else tried this? - Bryan bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 16:05:58 EST From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: computer run RIMS / immersion chiller vote Hi all, After the recent skirmish about the morality of a computer controlled RIMS, I thought it was about time I added my own fraction of a dollar. Sorry I'm a couple of days behind on my reading of the HBD. In essence, I want a computer controller because then I can pass my electronics course. I am still contemplating reverse engineering my setup after the professor assigns me a mark, and using more conventional temperature controls. My only reason for this would be if I can't afford the computer. Frankly, To be able to program the rims to maintain temperature, as well as perform the necessary temperature increases between rests is very attractive. The human brain is perfectly capable of doing these things, but I can think of better ways to spend my time. Brewing is fun. I love it. But not all aspects of the brewing art are challenging. Twiddling a nob or switch every 5 minutes to keep temperature constant is boring. I don't want an automated brewery either. That too would be boring. We all make are time saving compromises when we brew. Some people are more purist than others. Hey, this is a hobby. Do whatever turns your crank. But my perspective is this: I spent 8 hours from startup to the end of cleanup making an all grain lager this weekend. I had hoped to be able to at least read the Saturday paper while brewing. But all the temperature controlling, sparging, boiling, sanitizing, etc kept me hopping almost the entire time. I still haven't read the Wheels section (I save the best for last). I know that 8 hours is alot of time. So I'm slow. I still enjoyed myself, but in a years time, I'll get fed up I'm sure. Feel free to disagree if you will-- that's what the HBD is here for! BTW I'm still looking for Toronto suppliers of RIMS equipment. Especially the heater. And all experiences with building/running the suckers would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again to everyone who's helped out so far! ******************** On a totally different note: I'm looking for your vote on immersion chillers: To stir or not to stir? stirring chills the wort quicker, but stiil takes 15 minutes, which is tiring. I would assume the cold break is better (haven't done any experiments to prove this though), but the risk of infection is greater too. So anyone who uses an immersion chiller (and please, no arguments about the relative merits of counterflow vs. immersion. That's been done to death already): 1) do you/ did you ever stir the wort while chilling it? 2)if so, do/did you stir the beer for the entire time it takes/took to chill it? 3)have you had any problems associated with you approach? eg. infections. I'll post a summary of responses. Cheers, Eamonn McKernan eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 13:01:17 -0800 From: dfuller at ix.netcom.com (Franklin Fuller) Subject: Converting to All-Grain brewing Well, I think I am finally ready to make the plunge...but does anyone out there have any reccomendations as to which books might be the most helpful for an All Grain beginner? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 17:01:17 EST From: " Bob Paolino, Research Analyst" <uswlsrap at ibmmail.com> Subject: Bounced mail--please send an address I attempted to reply to edmondso at athena.msfc.nasa.gov about barleywines, but the mail bounced after five days. Send an address that will work and I'll send my reply again Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 15:59:44 MST From: jlandrem at atmel.com (John Landreman) Subject: culturing Chimay yeast Greetings, In HBD 1651 Curt asked about culturing Chimay yeast. I don't know about using a bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve but I have cultured from a bottle of Chimay Red. The bottling date should be stamped on the cork. My bottle was six months old and still worked fine. The thing is that it took four days for activity to start in a one quart starter. If you have not tossed it yet, be patient for a couple more days. You may have a point when you question using the yeast from a beer with that high of a alcohol content. The yeast may have mutated. Good Luck, John Landreman Colorado Springs, Co Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 16:39:49 -0700 (MST) From: lynnd at ihs.com (Lynn Danielson) Subject: HWBTA National Competition Results? Would someone please post or mail me the results of the HWBTA Nationals competition? Thanks in advance. Lynn Danielson lynnd at ihs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 17:26:45 -0800 From: cchbs at ix.netcom.com (Culver City Home Brewing Supply) Subject: Indirectly heated mash tuns With all the recent talk about indirect heat to your mash tun I thought I would explain how my 15 gallon 3 tier system works. First of all my mash tun / lauter tun is the good old 54 qt camping cooler with a copper slot false bottom. The brew kettle is a 15 gal keg with a stainless union and ball valve. The hot liquer tank is mounted 8 feet up and the whole system is hard piped in. The heart of the system is a brass impeller pump (rated up 250deg and 30 foot head space) that can be hooked up to the boil kettle via nylon quick disconects. With ball valves we can direct sparge water either up to the hot liquer tank or thru a 35 foot piece of half inch copper coil that is run thru the mash tun / lauter tun. We recirculate the water from the boil kettle running thru the coil (at just about boiling) to raise the mash temps about 2deg per min. This lets us adjust the temp without any scorching. Steve LaBrie Culver City Home Brewing Supply Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 20:30:56 -0500 From: Pulsifer at aol.com Subject: Water Adjustments I have been reading Dave Miller's "The Complete Handbook of HomeBrewing". It is a very good book. I decided that it was time to look at my water conditions. I have a pH of 8.0, Ca 100, Carbonate 100, Sulfate 25 and Mg 25. They add chlorine, chloramine and lime to the city water. Dave suggests that boiling should remove the chlorine and reduce the carbonates since I have more than enough Ca. The chloramine will be untouched (from e-mail info). I decided to experiment with plain water before I tried this technique on my brew. I boiled 2 cups of water for 25 minutes and let it cool. The pH was still high. It did appear that some white stuff precipitated. I added gypsum. The pH was still high. I boiled for a couple of minutes. The pH was still high. I added some DME and boiled again. The pH dropped significantly, but I don't think it got anywhere below 6.0. It was hard to tell since I was using a liquid indicator (6.0 to 7.6). I would appreciate any suggestions or comments. I may go to distilled water for a couple of batches and then back to tap water to see if I can taste a difference. Dean A. Pulsifer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 00:09:16 -0500 From: DONBREW at aol.com Subject: Re: control theory from #1650 >You might argue that you could use some sort of dimmer switch on the >heater, but I do not know of any reasonably priced dimmer switch that Tried dimmer, don"t work at all. You do need the flicker effect of the controller on the heater. Full power on at any time is death to enzymes in my experience. I don't have a problem with overshoot , mainly I think, because I put the sensors on the output side of the heater. Thusly the max temp into the mash is the setpoint, I also have a thermometer on the input side just for paranoia's sake. The delta seems to stay about 2 degrees F. BTW , I am open to any easy sugestions for using my boat anchor 286 to control things. I am already working on Bob McILvaine's monitoring system, and hope to figure out how to use that to control the temp. Donbrew at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 06:37:12 +0000 From: "Lee Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net> Subject: Vanilla Beer, The last comment on the BJCP here. Aaron Cox asks about the possibility of a vanilla beer: At the risk of starting another Corriander fiasco, I would cautiously say that vanilla is a nice addition to many dark beers. In smaller abounts (1/2 oz ber 5 gals) it seems to mellow nicely and enhance the overall character of a beer. Note: this will probably be percieved as a fault in a judging! I'm just talking about drinking beer here. Adding it just before bottling would be the best method as it's essence is extremely volotile and would not last through the fermentation. It's base is alcohol so sanitation is not an issue. For a definite flavor in a beer, start with 2 oz per 5 gallons AND LET IT MELLOW FOR AT LEAST A MONTH! It will e overpowering at first but it does mellow out. - ------------------------------------------------------------ I have seen a couple of posts from people regarding the AHA's pullout of the BJCP. Specifically people who are not judges presumably, want to throw in their $0.02. Here's what I think: First of all, the thread should never have been started here. After this I suggest we keep it to the JudgeNet where it belongs. Second, It doesn't concern the average homebrewer, but it does suggest a general trend in the AHA towards a kinder, gentler dictatorship! Third, someone made a comment on the necessity of competitions. If you don't want to enter your beers in competition, fine.... I don't want to judge them. Some enter competitions for the competition itself. Far more enter it for constructive feedback on their beers. Yes, judges are human and do make mistakes. A beer that is slammed in a competition may well be an excellent beer, but might not be appropriate for the style it was entered. Pay attention to what the judges are telling you, not what score you received. Judges spend alot of time preparing for the examination and keeping current after it. They do this for free and for the sole reason to make you a better brewer if you care to listen. If you think that some judges don't know what they are doing, well, if you can say everything you know about beer in a few paragraphs, sit down. If you can intelligently write 8-15 pages of information with references from memory on a few specific questions in 3 hours, then step right up, have I got a test for you. I'll step off my soapbox now. If this letter wasn't addressed to you, then don't take any offence. If you take offence anyway, be cordial and sent it to me e-mail. Let's drop this discussion before it starts and get on to discussing beer. - -- -Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... | leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! | Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb | Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1654, 02/10/95