HOMEBREW Digest #1655 Sat 11 February 1995
Digest #1654
Digest #1656
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Off the air, EM prob (Jack Schmidling)
boiling bottled cider/beer (Lenny Garfinkel)
Stockpot Mash-Tun (Jim Ancona)
Guinness Stout - that slight sour taste ("Keith Royster")
Stockpot Mash Tun ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
Rager's Error/Aging Beer/Red/Dry Hopping/Abbey (npyle) <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
Re: Chiller design (Edward Bockman)
Yeast Farmers: Request for Comments ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
New Subscriber (WOLFF)
Re: Homebrew, where do I start? (Dion Hollenbeck)
Re: chiller tubing (Dion Hollenbeck)
Guinness recipes/ Red Ales/ Dry Hops (Gary Bell)
Re: Repitching yeast before bottling (John DeCarlo )
Head questions; coffee beer ("v.f. daveikis")
Vanilla Beer (dsanderson)
Carbonates in Burton water/Down-Under (Domenick Venezia)
Re: What's a good Trippel sugar? (Dan McMahon)
RE:Chiller tube diameter/Piddling Schmidling/AHA, AOB, et al. (" Patrick G. Babcock")
dryhopping / rosemary (Alan P Van Dyke)
2-row or not 2-row? ("Michael Bonner")
repitching/tripel sugar/tripel spelling (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
First All-Grain ("Thomas Aylesworth")
Lids, budcoors clone, long sigs. (ELQ1)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 07:16 CST
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Off the air, EM prob
I will be off the air while relocating so if anyone has anything urgent
I can be reached at 815 923 0031 after Saturday.
>From: ed.scolforo at berkshirebbs.com (Ed Scolforo)
>I did my second mash yesterday using the Easy Masher *tm, and was very
dissapointed when it came time to drain the cooled wort. The screen was
so clogged up it wouldn't drain.... I can hear JS now telling me not to use
wheat or perhaps pellets, but I want to use these ingredients in my brewing.
Funny, I don't hear him saying anything like that. More likely, I would say
do whatever works. However, I can not imagine what wheat could have to do
with a clogging screen at that stage and I routinely use pellet hops, whole
hops and plugs with no problem. The only problem I have ever had was with
Irish Moss and posted my experience at the time.
Most folks have no problems using the EM after the boil but enough do to make
one wonder why and after much experience and feedback, I conclude that it has
more to do with technique than with any limitation on the product.
The biggest problem is a lack of understanding of the way the EM works. It
is NOT a strainer and any attempt to use it as one will end in failure. The
EM simply prevents large particles from glogging the line and the spigot.
The filtering/straining is done by the grain bed or in the case of post boil,
by a similar situation set up by the hops and trub.
The wort must be allowed to settle and never disturbed while draining.
Stirring or scraping will lead to the problems you reported. Everyone has
their own technique but I have found the following worked well for me:
After the boil, I would drop in the chiller and let it air cool for about 30
mins, then turn on the water and by the time the wort was chilled, I could
draw it off through the EM without problems. My wort chiller is now
installed in the lid of my boiler so my procedure is a bit different but the
above never failed me.
> On another note, count me as another who has given up his AHA membership.
Me too
js
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:15:37 +0200 (IST)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: boiling bottled cider/beer
I have yet to see a good method for getting carbonated, sweet, hard
cider short of using lactose, malto-dextrin, saccharine, aspartame,
etc. Has anyone tried overpriming with sugar, and then simply boiling to
kill the yeast after a few days? Will crown caps, and the already
pressurized liquid stand up to the additional pressure? If not, which is
more likely to give, the cap or the bottle (explode)?
Lenny
_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel | Internet: lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General | Office Phone: 972-8-381256
Kiryat Weizmann | Home Phone: 972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel | FAX: 972-8-409041
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Feb 95 8:34:31 EDT
From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona.DBS at dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com>
Subject: Stockpot Mash-Tun
Mark Peacock <mpeacock at oeonline.com> writes:
>I just picked up a 30-quart (7.5 gallons for the conversion-challenged)
>stainless steel stockpot at a restaurant auction. I was thinking about
>drilling it for an EasyMasher and graduating to all-grain recipes.
Sounds like a great pot, I'm jealous.
>I know a lot of folks are using 10-gallon Gotts as mash-tuns, which
>leads me to a question. Before I put bit to steel, is a 30-quart pot a
>big enough mash-tun for a 3-gallon batch? How 'bout a 5-gallon batch?
I use an enamel on stell canning pot for kettle mashing/lautering. I believe
its capacity is 22 quarts. I can just barely get 10 pounds of grain in it with
1.5 quarts/gallon of mash water. I then collect the sweet wort in a 32 quart
enamel on steel pot for boiling. I believe you would have no problem mashing up
to 12 or so pounds in a 30 quart pot. At 80% efficiency, that gets you a
gravity up around 1.070 for a 5 gallon batch. No (all-grain) barleywines or
dopplebocks, but almost anything else.
If you want to use the same pot for mashing and boiling, you must use an
intermediate container to store the sweet wort during the sparge.
Jim Ancona
janco at dbsoftware.com
jpa at iii.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 09:15:51 EST
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject: Guinness Stout - that slight sour taste
In HBD1653 rnantel at ibm.net asks for improvements to a Guinness Stout
recipie to better achieve the authentic "sour" taste.
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that this sour taste is
achieved, not in the brewing process, but by actually blending the
stout beer with a little bit of "bad" / contaminated beer. Other
than this, I don't remember any details. Does this sound familiar to
anyone else? Or am I completely confused? I'll try to find where I
read it this weekend.
Keith Royster
NC-DEHNR / Air Qualtiy
n1ea471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us
919 North Main St.
Mooresville, NC 28115
Voice: (704) 663-1699
Fax: (704) 663-6040
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 09:17:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Stockpot Mash Tun
RE: HBD #1653 Mark Peacock asks:
<...is a 30 quart pot a big enough mash tun for a 3 gal batch?
<...how about a 5 gal batch?
For 13 gal batches we've used about 8 gal worth of a 15 gal
tub, and assuming you went 2.5-3 gal of mash liquor with the
balance in sparge liquor, you shuld have plenty of working
room for the 5 gal batches--there's no boiling involved here
so you can go to the limit on the actual mash tun capacity.
Even with a substantially raised false bottom I'd say this is
a roomy pot.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 9:19:28 MST
From: Norman Pyle (npyle) <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
Subject: Rager's Error/Aging Beer/Red/Dry Hopping/Abbey
Karl Lutzen writes about the error in Rager's formula:
> GB - .050
> GA = ---------- Where GB is the gravity of the boiling wort.
> 0.20
>
>This should be:
>
> GB - 1.050
> GA = ----------
> 0.20
Actually, I think it makes more sense in this form, which is in the Hops FAQ:
ADJUSTMENT = 1 + ((BOIL_GRAVITY - 1.050) / 0.2)
I think I'll work on this area in the next revision, to clear it up a bit.
BTW, didn't Zymurgy print a correction to that article? I think I have
pencilled in the correction in my issue of Z.
**
Randy Davis writes:
>Tom Puskar asks for opinions on aging beer. My humble opinion is that for
>all but a few higher strength styles, most homebrew is at it's peak of
>perfection very early while still fresh. This is particularly true of British
>style ales. In my experience even lagers are best relatively soon after
I tend to agree with you Randy, with a couple of caviats: 1) if the yeast
has been given a proper chance (i.e. large pitching rate, oxygen, etc.), and
2) if the recipe is fairly simple. I've found some beers that I underpitched
took some time to "finish", to dry out, so they improved over time. I've
also found that some very complex recipes improve dramatically with age as
the flavors meld. I had an old ale go from "a bunch of interesting, and
isolated flavors" to "a complex flavor sensation wherein any one flavor was
nearly indistinguishable". This beer had unmalted wheat, molasses, corn
starch, caramel from cane sugar, pale malt, special B, crystal, and ???. The
transition was remarkable as all of this stuff came together as one. This
beer sort of straddled the line between "higher strength" and "normal"
gravities, at around 1.060.
**
Julie, red beers *are* the latest fad, that's all. Its a positive sign
though, since for most people beer is yellow, so maybe there is hope. Make
a nice amber ale with a quality crystal malt and a bit of Belgian Special B
and you'll have a good copper colored beer, much better than any of the fad
beers.
**
Jeff Hewit asks about dry hopping. All I can say Jeff, is you have to try it
yourself. Start with a style that suits it, like a pale ale / bitter / amber
ale, and a recipe you've done before. I've found that 1/2 ounce of Cascades
in a 5 gallon batch is plenty of aroma, but that EKGoldings for example, can
be used at well over 1 ounce per 5 gallons without being "too much". Use
whole hops and throw them loose into the secondary fermenter (I use a funnel
to get them in the neck of a carboy). You could reduce your finishing hops,
yes, if you like, but it's not a requirement. You could also split the batch
and dry hop half (I've done this) to compare the two. Try it, you'll like
it!
**
Jeff "I live in Fort Collins and rub it in on a regular basis" Benjamin wrote:
>>Al wrote:
>> Correction... unless Jeff has joined the order of Trappist Monks, he's
>> making Abbey, not Trappist, ales. You might ask Jeff, next time you see
>> him, why did he add an extra "p" in "tripel?"
>
>I guess I should have said "Trappist-style" ales. I didn't remember to
I found it interesting in the NHC proceedings that Jeff was apologizing for
using the name "Abbey" on this beer (that is the full name of this beer).
Apparently even the word "abbey", not just "trappist", is some sort of
protected or otherwise special name in Belgium.
Norm "Brewing on the banks of the Mighty St. Vrain"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 11:40:16 +0500 (EST)
From: Edward Bockman <ebock at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Re: Chiller design
The difference between 1/2" and 3/8" tubing will
obviously be the change in the amount of Wort in
contact with the tubing wall. I used 3/8" with
mine, mainly because of the bending issue, and it
works fine. The legnth of the tubing is actually
more important for efficiancy. You want to be
sure that there is enough contact time given in the
wort to allow the exit temperature of the water to
approach the wort temp (of course you could just use
a lot of water).
If you are really concerned about efficiency, then a
counterflow is the only way to go! I am currently
building mine, I just need to get the plastic welded.
Edward Bockman
Application Engineer
Calgon Carbon Corporation
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 09:45:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Yeast Farmers: Request for Comments
I recently posted to r.c.b "Selecting Strains for Culturing", a simple
tabulation of Wyeast data with notations regarding how Wyeast products
might be selected for culturing. There are infinite ways to look at
this data and I'd like your ideas about selecting a "minimum set" of
yeasts to maximize coverage of beer styles.
I also proposed experimenting with starters built with yeast strain
pairs with differing floculation levels, and would like your ideas on
this. From [unknown source] I picked up the idea that there is some
[good] reason for doing this, but have lost lock completely on what
the reason was. Until I find out what the objective(s) is(are) I have
to shelve the project--sounded good at the time, though, or I wouldn't
have looked into yeast selection for that purpose.
If you frequent the r.c.b, please take a look at this post and provide
ideas/feedback as you see fit. My address given in the article MAY be
incorrect--my correct address is below. BTW, I've checked various
yeast FAQs and have seen no reference to either of these ideas. Thx to
the brewing cognoscenti and may they be blessed 70-times-7.
Kirk R Fleming
-flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil
-BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 11:38:18 -0500 (EST)
From: WOLFF at eclus.bwi.wec.com
Subject: New Subscriber
Hi. Just joined . I am an all grain brewer and brew typically 10-12
gals. at a time. I usually brew 10+ times per year. You can E-Mail to
wolff at eclus.bwi.wec.com. I also make winee. All correspondence welcomed.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 08:48:49 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Homebrew, where do I start?
>>>>> "Mike" == MPALUZZI95 <MPALUZZI95 at dgl.ssc.mass.edu> writes:
Mike> I am looking to start brewing my own beer and am looking for any
Mike> insight on what and where to purchase my home brewing equipment.
Mike> If anyone could offer some insight it would be greatly
Mike> appreciated. Please respond privately as to save on bandwidth.
I think this is valuable to all, so I am also copying to the Digest.
If you are a beginning brewer, you should go out in your area and talk
to supply shops about how to get started, what equipment would be
right for you, and any other questions you can ask. When you find one
you feel comfortable with and *trust*, validate what they have told
you in TNCJHB and here in HBD. If they have been straight with you,
buy your initial equipment and ingredients from them. You now have
someone local to call and get an answer *right now* during your first
brew. Don't take unfair advantage of this, read a lot and be prepared
on your own. But a person on the other end of the phone line can
often be a lot more helpful than several back and forths to the
digest, and frankly Email is too slow when you have a problem on brew
day. Also, brew at a time when the shop is open!!
Once you know what you are doing, then begin to look for mail order
suppliers and bargains and items which your local supplier does not
carry. I still go to my local supplier for my grain, but frankly,
when he charges $40 for a soda keg, I can't pass up $5 kegs from a
scrap yard. Or when he does not carry the yeast I want to use, I have
to go elsewhere. A good relationship with a local supplier is very
valuable, so keep it fresh by buying there regularly.
Just my $0.02
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 08:54:19 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: chiller tubing
>>>>> "mike" == mike spinelli <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> writes:
mike> I'm thinking of making my own immersion chiller. Which is
mike> better, 3/8" or 1/2" copper. My cousin the HVAC mechanic says
mike> that 1/2" might be hard to bend in say, a 9" circle w/o kinking
mike> and recommended 3/8". Does it really make a differnce between
mike> the two sizes?
The higher the surface area to cross sectional volume ratio, the
better, which suggests 3/8". Actually 1/4" would be better, but
people have posted that they have trouble with getting enough flow
through it. What I found with the 3/8" chiller I have is that the
cooling speeded up drastically when the wort is stirred continuously
or the chiller is jiggled continuously. My arms get tired of doing
this, so I made a 160RPM gearmotor driven paddle which goes through
the lid of my pot. I put the paddle in the boiling wort at the same
time as the chiller to sanitize both of them.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 08:58:51 -0800
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: Guinness recipes/ Red Ales/ Dry Hops
In HBD #1653:
Richard Nantel asked about Guinness recipe improvements. I
wish you'd asked a week ago - I just tried and extract
version last night. I was inspired by the sour mashing
discussion, so I followed Charlie Papazzian's notation in
TNCJOHB that Guinness adds 3% soured beer to their stouts.
The day night before brew-night I made up 20 oz of 1.040
wort using dark British DME and a little roast barley. When
this cooled to 90 F I threw in a tablespoon of yoghurt. It
was just getting sour when I brewed 24 hours later - I wish
I'd waited 48 hours. I added the soured mash to the brew
kettle in a 5 gallon batch. Any thoughts on this approach?
Miller's recipe calls for "15 AAUs hops (high alpha)". I
have two different sources (Dave Line and Fred Eckhardt)
that Guinness uses Bullion hops for bittering (the classic
hop for stouts). Line also suggests some Northern Brewer for
the full boil while Eckhardt suggested some Goldings for
"aroma" (I think he means flavor).
**********
Julie Espy asks about red brews. You're right on both
counts, Julie. In some beers it makes a difference, while in
others it's only marketing. Red Dog isn't even red. You can
add some red color to your favorite brew by adding an ounce
or two of roasted barley. You can also use a small amount of
chocolate or black patent malt. Steep the grains in 150 degF
water for 20 minutes to 1/2 hour before adding them to the
kettle. The small amount of roasted barley will add a lovely
red hue and a tiny amount of roast flavor to the beer.
**********
Jeff Hewit asks about dry hopping. When you add aroma hops
at the end of the boil you end up driving off much of the
aroma in the primary fermentation - the delicate volatiles
are carried off with the large volume of CO2 produced. As a
starting point you might try taking half your aroma hops and
adding them to the secondary. Experiment a little. I usually
use both; in fact, I often use 4 or 5 different hop
additions in my ales including dry hopping to add
complexity. The result is a much more "rounded" hop flavor
and aroma. Good luck!
Cheers,
Gary
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Bell "Laxo, non excrucio, poto cervisia domestica."
Lake Elsinore, CA
(909) 674-3637
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 12:05:39 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Repitching yeast before bottling
>In my last batch, I left the secondary carboy in the fridge at about 35F for
>over 6 weeks, plus I added polyclar. I did not intend to leave it in this
>long, but schedules did not permit otherwise. I ended up with a VERY clear
>beer. Beautiful! But I'm wondering how viable the yeast is for priming the
>bottles. Has extended time in the secondary 'inactivated' and/or mutated
>most of the yeast? or have the low tempuratures 'saved' the yeast?
Well, I think this is of general interest, so here goes:
I leave my beer in the secondary for anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months. My
basement doesn't get above 60 and stays around 50 in the winter. Carboys are
covered and the airlocks levels kept at the right levels (dry basement could
let all the water evaporate if not checked).
I have never added more yeast, and natural bottle carbonation has never been a
problem. One week at regular room temps is enough, always. Bottles then go
back to the cold basement.
As another data point, I made a sparkling mead that finished active
fermentation in a month or so, then stayed in carboys for the next 13 months,
clearing. Again, no extra yeast was needed at bottling time (I added one cup
of honey, heated up, which was probably too much) and bottles were carbonated
in a week at room temp (around 70F).
Now I have no experience lagering at 35F, so I can't say how the yeast will be
affected. Also, rapid temperature changes can affect yeast flocculation as
well. But, in general, my experience has been that extended aging in a
secondary is no reason to add more yeast.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:31:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "v.f. daveikis" <vdaveiki at julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Head questions; coffee beer
Howdy
Lately, actually, since I moved, I've been experiencing 'soda-pop'
heads on some of my brews. You know, the kind of head where the head
subsides immediately to the surface and you are left with the wee dancing
bubbles on the surface of the beer. Not all bottles are like this, but
most of them are. Its NOT the glass as i have been using my favourite
beer glasses for years, and I do know how to properly wash them.. I think
that it may be something with the water in the new town, as it is the
only difference from old brews. Any thoughts out there?
A late note on coffee beers-- when I want some I put an ounce of fresh
espresso in the bottom of my 16 ounce bottles before I fill them. That
way I can make as many coffee beers as I like to ( they can get to be a
bit over indulgent at times ).
Thanks
Victor. Daveikis, London, Ont.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 13:08:15 EST
From: dsanderson at msgate.cv.com
Subject: Vanilla Beer
aaron wrote:
>Last week while drinking a mocha java stout a friend and i came up with the
>idea of a vanilla nutmeg beer. We were thinking about a bock with the nutmeg
>added in during the boil to release its flavors and aromas. then add in the
>vanilla just before chilling the beer to preseve its flavor and aroma.
>has anyone brewed a beer like this before? And what does the colledtive wisdom
>of the great masters think?
>thanks aaron cox003 at wcsub.ctstateu.edu
Last December in Munich I was introduced to Schneider Weisse, a weizen or wheat
beer. To me it had a very pronounced Vanilla flavor You might want to consider
adding nutmeg to a Weizenbier.
Dave
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 10:24:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Carbonates in Burton water/Down-Under
While responding to Jeff Stampes kind offer of compiling water chemistry
information I realized that I was missing an important parameter in my
quest for a Fuller's ESB clone. The Ca++, SO4--, Mg++, Na+, and Cl-
concentrations are well known and published, but I have never seen values
published for carbonates. Since the brewing water of Burton-upon-trent
comes not from the Trent River but from wells in what I think is a
limestone region one would expect that the carbonate levels are pretty
high. In fact the carbonate levels of the municipaility of
Burton-upon-trent (which is not river water - so I assume it's ground
water) is:
Min Mean Max
Alkalinity (as CaCO3) 82 95.7 108
Total hardness (as CaCO3) 196 211.6 225
Perm hardness (as CaCO3) 99 115.9 132
Other values such as Ca++ and SO4-- are not:
Min Mean Max
Calcium 52 58.3 63
Sulphate (as SO4) 95 97.4 99
If anyone knows whether these carbonate values are valid or knows the
actual values for the likes of Fuller's, Bass, or other Burton style
ales, please respond by private email.
Also, let me publically thank Dave and Cheryl Draper, Ken and Eva Willing
who welcomed me into their home, Andy Walsh, and Chris Pittock for
giving me a very enjoyable dinner and evening of beer and beer talk.
Dinner a la Willing, Beef Bourignon over rice, garden salad, and
potatoes(?) was wonderful, as was the Chocolate stout cake a la Pittock
(who drove 4 hours from Melbourne). The beers were good and a
welcome relief from the likes of Fosters, Victoria Bitters, and XXXX.
Collectively these four men have an enviable wealth of brewing knowledge
and experience and I would not be surprised if one or more ended up at
the forefront of craft brewing down under. Thanks again and I will be
returning.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com
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Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 14:18:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan McMahon <dmcmahon at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Re: What's a good Trippel sugar?
Dave Pike <davep at cirrus.com> wrote:
"What's a good Trippel sugar?"
I've only used candy sugar, but I've had excellent results. I've been to
Belgium twice in the past year and always bring home a few trippels (gotta
have room for bruns, blondes, blanches and lambics too!) to compare to. My
recipe has compared favorably. I can't say that candy sugar is the ley
ingredient, but it sure does raise the OG!
Also, be careful making candy sugar at home!
-Dan
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 14:32:54 EST
From: " Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql at ibmmail.com>
Subject: RE:Chiller tube diameter/Piddling Schmidling/AHA, AOB, et al.
*** Resending note of 02/09/95 12:01
* Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its *
* original dimension. - Oliver Wendell Holmes *
Subject: RE:Chiller tube diameter/Piddling Schmidling/AHA, AOB, et al.
Sorry about the following extensive use of bandwidth, but I haven't been able
to brew in SEVERAL months, and am now REAL ORNERY!
IN HDB #1653...
-=> Mike Spinelli asks about using 3/8" or 1/2" tubing for his chiller...
I used 3/8" for mine. I felt the smaller cross section would be more easily
cooled than the larger one. Also, by using the smaller diameter, a greater
volume of water can flow outside of the tubing. Allows you to use a smaller
diameter outer hose, too.
I have bent 1/2" tubing into coils with no kinking problems - Get a section of
PVC pipe of the desired diameter, punch a hole in the side, put the end of
your tube in the hole, then roll the pipe (or bucket, or whatever) along the
length of your tubing to coil it up. Works like a charm! Did this from a post
on *P*.
OK. No more Mr. Niceguy!
-=> Schmidling's insecurity?
How many have bought a Jack Schmidling product, only to find it _PACKED_ with
advertisements impugning his competition? I just got a MaltMill (from those
wonderful people at Maltose Express <free plug>) and found _two_ sheets
extolling the virtues of the MM, and telling me how horrible, useless, and
ill-conceived the Glatt and Philmill are! C'mon, Jack! I already bought the
damned thing! Get a life! (And GROW UP!!!)
-=> Regarding the recent hullabaloo in the organized brewing world, I feel it
necessary to suck up bandwidth with this excerpt (edited) from an e-mail
to a fellow brewer after he unwittingly suggested I look to the AOB for
some information (or so I had thought)...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Now, for your reading pleasure, I'm going to unload; ranting and raving about
the current state of affairs in the brewing world... >:-()}
AOB, AHA, etc. want far too much of my hard-earned dollars for their books,
and I usually find them to be less than what I would have expected - little
more than just one more person's surmissions and opinions with little or no
empirical data (Oh, yeah - with recipes included...). And even less basis in
fact. Hell, I just spent $21.50 for _four_ Brewing Techniques back issues to
get the rest of that series they're doing on yeast (guess there's one more
coming...). A little rich for magazines. The yeast series is good, but there
is plenty of assinine BS in the mag as well. Hardly worth the new and improved
$6.00 cover price. (and I _LIKE_ BT. Oughta hear what I have to say about the
AHA's means of shoving advertisements down our throats - Zymurgy...)
Another case in point: Garetz's 'Using Hops'. When it first came out, it was
considered God's gift to hop-heads. Now, not enough can be said about how
poorly Garetz researched his material, and how <Expletive deleted> up he is.
Turns out it was just his opinion; and now someone else's (Rager's) opinion is
(back) en vogue. Sorry. I'm a little too technically oriented to accept that
kind of crap from a set of demi-professional organizations. These are the same
organizations that want to judge the appropriateness of our choice of brewing
ingredients and techniques to a set of stylistic parameters - which now appear
to be unknowns. Apparently, they don't know their <Expletive deleted> from
holes in the ground if these ongoing arguments are any indication. Starting to
remind me too much of this place (work).
And, the industry's expensive paperback books are, IMHO, inexcusable. Hell,
even that stupid little book entitled "How To Build A Home Brewery" (about 40
pages) is $7.00 to $9.95. And it is (also IMHO) worthless information. Those
who have bought it (and I'm guilty. Bought it in a moment of weakness with no
review. Regretted it ever since...) found very little useable information, and
a recipe for 'ten day beer'. Worthless.
I can understand raising money for 'furthering the cause', but you don't do it
by making the information too expensive for most people to acquire. And you
don't attract membership by continuously contradicting yourself, either.
(The rest of the letter extols the virtues of local brewing clubs, and, since
it impales no-one, will not be reprinted here.)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My flame torches are now standing down; feel free to fire yours up: I know
I've just opened myself up for, say, a new Cajun Blackened look? But, boy, do
I FEEL better!
Brew On! -P.G. Babcock
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Date: Thursday, 9 February 95 13:35:33 CST
From: Alan P Van Dyke <llapv at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
Subject: dryhopping / rosemary
Howdy,
In HBD 1653, Jeff Hewit asks about dryhopping, a subject near & dear to my
heart. When I dryhop, I use it in addition to all the other hoppings in my
beer, but then again, I want a hoppy beer when I dryhop. I usually use an
ounce of pellets at about 4.4% a.a., mostly East Kent Goldings. The last
pale ale I dryhopped had 1/4 oz EKG, 1/4 oz Liberty, & 1/4 oz Williamette
in a 4 gallon batch, which gave it a grassy type of hop aroma. I think if
I mix hops again, I'll lean more to the Liberty & less on the Williamette.
But I really like EKG.
So, some of you are probably wondering, "Why did he just do 4 gallons?"
Well, since you asked, it was a 5 gallon batch, but I seperated out a gallon
when racking into the secondary & "dry-rosemaried" it. I got the idea from
Pike Place, which has an oregano beer. However, my wife squenched her nose
& said "Do rosemary instead." I pulled some oregano & rosemary out of the
cabinet, grabbed a reserve bag of hops out of the freezer, & did a sniff
test, & sure enough, the rosemary was much nicer than the oregano when sniffed
with hops. So, I put in fresh rosemary leaves from a six-inch twig in the
one gallon secondary & let it sit for a week. It came out nice, but the
rosemary may be a little too subtle, being overbalanced by the hops. However,
the two aromas & flavors blend well together, & I'm looking forward to trying
it again, perhaps with an 8 inch twig.
I named it "Rosemary's Baby".
Alan Van Dyke Austin, TX (new home of Shrub)
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Date: 9 Feb 1995 14:47:20 U
From: "Michael Bonner" <Michael_Bonner at smtpgw.musc.edu>
Subject: 2-row or not 2-row?
2-row or not 2-row?
On a recent visit to my local homebrew store, the owner told me that he had
received, by mistake, a bag of Munton and Fison 6-row lager malt. He had no
need for this and couldn't return it, so he offered to sell it for U$25. I
figured I could live with the hastles of mashing 6-row for that kind of
price. However, this stuff *looks* identical to the 2-row Briess I have, and
nowhere on the bag does it say "6-row", so I'm wondering if it is, in fact,
2-row. Is there a great difference in the size of the kernels or some obvious
way to tell 2- from 6-row? The bag was merely labelled "whole/lager batch 862
3217 BBE Aug 94 176707". I'd appreciate any help I can get in figuring this
out.
Also, someone (can't remember the name - sorry) recently expressed concern
about the incompatability of a plastic false bottom with a steam injection
system. I haven't mashed with mine yet, but last night I tested my it by
heating three gallons of water from RT (55F) to 170F. It took a little less
than an hour and, since no grains were holding the false bottom down, it
floated up to directly contact the copper tube. No problems whatsoever. I'm
very excited about this weekend's batch, and will let ya'll in on the
results.
Gosh, de-lurking was even easier than the jump to all-grain. I wonder why I
waited so long?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Michael Bonner
Bonzer Brew Works
49-C Chapel Street
michael_bonner at smtpgw.musc.edu
Charleston, SC 29403
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
What does not kill us only makes us STRANGER.
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Date: 9 Feb 95 13:21:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: repitching/tripel sugar/tripel spelling
Keith writes:
>now and have started brewing some lagers. In my last batch, I left
>the secondary carboy in the fridge at about 35F for over 6 weeks,
>plus I added polyclar.
and
>Should
>I repitch yeast prior to bottling in this type of situation? If so,
>how much? Should a make up another starter of liquid, or just
>activate and pitch some dry yeast (I use liquid in the primary)? Or
>should I pitch from the sediment of the primary or secondary, and how?
I have not used polyclar in any lagers, but I had no problems with carbonation
in a recent ale I fined with polyclar, nor did I have any problems with
carbonation in a lager that sat in the primary (at 45F) for 2 weeks and
the secondary (also at 45F) for 8 or 9 weeks. In neither of these beers
did I add more yeast at bottling time (what the Belgian brewers call
"repitching"). Note that these beers were 1040 OG and 1075 OG respectively,
and that for much-higher gravity beers, pitching more yeast at bottling time
might be a good idea (since the primary fermentation yeast may be sluggish
due to high alcohol).
If it will help you relax, you can add more yeast, but if you do, I recommend
that you pitch the same strain you used for the main fermentation. If you
happen to pitch a more attenuative yeast, you may have overcarbonation.
********
Dave writes:
>What's the HBD's concensus on the best sugar for brewing Belgian style
>Trippels?
Traditionally, Tripels are brewed using pale Candi Sugar, which I've read is
almost entirely sucrose. In my opinion, I would say that white table sugar
would be the closest. When it comes to dark Candi Sugar, that's a tougher
problem, but from tasting it, I would say it is not much more than caramelized
sucrose... NOT brown sugar! So, carefully heating a sucrose solution till it
turns to colour of pancake syrup would be the closest approximation, IMO.
********
Jeff writes:
>ask him about "trippel" vs "tripel", but I've always seen it spelled
>with two p's. Anyone have a definitive word on the "speling"?
I'd say that it doesn't get any more definitive than the cap of a bottle
of Westmalle Tripel (the originators of the style): one "p."
Al.
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Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 15:08:48 -0500
From: "Thomas Aylesworth" <t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com>
Subject: First All-Grain
Sorry - I know these questions have been asked before, but I can't find
a Mashing FAQ anywhere and my attempt to search the HBD archives using
the keyword "mash" produced more than I could get through in a lifetime.
Anyway, I did my first all-grain brew this past week-end, after doing a
years worth of partial mashes. It went pretty well - much better than
my first partial mash did. I made an Oatmeal Porter and was shooting
for an og of 1.050. The grist consisted of 77.5% Klages, 10% Oats, 5%
Crystal, 5% Carapils, and 2.5% Black Malt. I did my mash on the stove
in a 5 gallon pot using 13 quarts of water. I did a protein rest with
a strike temperature of 126F, which went right to 122F as Miller predicted.
The protein rest lasted half an hour, after which I slowly brought it up
to 155F (slowly because my thermometer doesn't react quickly and I wanted
to make sure I didn't overshoot). I checked it and stirred it every 15
minutes, keeping the temperature between 150-155F, for an hour. In the
meantime I heated 4.5 gallons of sparge water. I didn't bother checking
for starch conversion, and after an hour, brought the mash up to 168F
and did a 5 minute mash-out. I used Phil's Lautering System, so after
the mash-out, I carefully transferred the mash to the lauter bucket.
Unfortunately, I didn't do it carefully enough, and the hose came out
from under the false bottom, so I had to transfer it back to the pot and
then back to the bucket. This certainly caused the temperature to drop
somewhat, and, I guess, could lead to some oxidation of the wort, but
wasn't a complete disaster. The next problem came from the fact that
during all of this, I let the sparge water get almost to the boiling
point. I let it cool a little while I was recirculating the wort in
the lauter tun, but it still was over 180F when I started to sparge.
Also, I didn't acidify the sparge water as Miller recommended (I meant
to, but forgot). I sparged into a 6 gallon bucket with a spigot, which
wasn't quite large enough, so I had to put the last runnings into a
pot. The reason for sparging into the bucket rather than the boiler,
is that I don't have a pot that big. Rather than replace my 5 gallon
boiler with an 8 gallon boiler, I just bought another 5 gallon pot to
do this. 8 gallon stainless steel pots are very expensive, and I'm not
sure my gas stove could bring 7 gallons of wort to a good boil anyway.
So, I sparged into the bucket, stirred it well to mix the heavy first
runnings with the thin later runnings, and then used the spigot to
divide the wort into my two boilers (3.5 gallons per boiler). I was
able to get an excellent boil from both of them, and boiled for 90
minutes. Because I started the second boil about 15 minutes after the
first one, I was able to chill the first one while the second finished.
Thanks to the 20F outside temperature, and the fact that I was only
chilling 2.5 gallons at a time, I was able to bring each of them down
to below 75F in under 15 minutes. I then pitched a quart starter of
Wyeast 1056 that I had started just 2 days earlier and shook it like the
dickens to aerate it. It started bubbling immediately, and has been
going slow but steady in my 60F basement ever since then.
Anyway, my questions are:
- Water treatment: I merely boiled all the water (10 gallons) the
night before. I guess this is one of the next areas I should work
on. Can someone point me to a good book or article(s) that describe
this? Miller goes into this somewhat, but not a great deal.
- Protein rest: From what I have read (mostly books and articles by
Miller), the protein rest is necessary if using "high-protein" grains,
such as wheat and oats. It should not be done if using British Pale
Ale Malt. Beyond that, he seems to waver, seeming to say that it is
a good idea anyway, but not necessary. Does this sound right? Also,
what, exactly, is meant by "high-protein". My homebrew shop labels
the protein content of all the grains they sell on the bag - what
numbers should I be looking for to tell me that I should do a protein
rest. I am planning on doing a basic pale ale next, using mostly
Klages and some Crystal malt. Should I bother doing a protein rest?
- Sparge water: From a few posts here, it doesn't sound like the fact
that my sparge water was a little hotter than it should have been is
necessarily bad. True or not? Also, how big a problem is it that I
didn't acidify the sparge water? Miller claims that both of these
problems can lead to extracting unwanted tannins from the grain husks -
I guess I should not be surprised if I have some harsh flavors in my
beer.
- Sparge: My sparge only lasted about 25 minutes. Numbers I've seen
here before seem to be much longer than this. Should I slow down the
rate, or does it not matter?
- Boilers: Has anyone else tried using two boilers before? It seems
like such an obvious idea, I'm surprised I haven't seen it mentioned
here before. The only problem I can see is that I move it from my
bucket into the boilers via a spigot - which could cause oxidation
of the hot wort. How big a problem is that at this stage? If it is
a potential problem, I could ladle the wort into the boiler.
- Yeast starter: My starter didn't really have a big krausen on it
when pitched. This isn't related to all-grain brewing, obviously, but
I was wondering what the accepted wisdom is here. In the past, I have
started my liquid yeasts earlier in the week so that they were done
fermenting by time I pitched. Which is better, and why?
- Efficiency: At what point exactly is this measured? After the boil,
I had slightly more than 5 gallons of wort with a gravity of 1.060 -
much higher than I expected. Plugging this into the formula I have
seen here gives me 5*60/10 = 30 pt/lb/gallon. Actually, it was very
slightly higher than this, since I had a little more than 5 gallons
and the gravity was actually 1.061 after adjusting for temperature.
Anyway, does this sound right? I am a little surprised I got such a
good extraction considering it was my first time. BTW - the wort
volume (5 gallons) was the volume before racking off the hop sludge
and break material. I ended up losing about a quart, so I only had
about 4.75 gallons in my fermenter, which I didn't bother to top up.
Well, sorry for such a long post and for rehashing questions that have
probably been asked a billion times. I find this to be an excellent
forum, and appreciate any help I get!
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Aylesworth | t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com
Space Processor Software Engineering |
Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA | (703) 367-6171
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 11:53:10 PST
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Lids, budcoors clone, long sigs.
First of all, I don't think there are screw lids available for plastic
fermenters, the lids that come with the fermenters fit lousy and leak,
so, go to a large paint store, and buy a 5 gal bucket for about $2, the
lid that comes with the bucket has a nice screw bung for access and lock
tabs that seal eiser and better than fermenter lids, AND, they're food
grade.
Bud/coors clone, take a 3 lb. light DME, do a 5 gal batch with just the 3
lbs. of DME, use only a few hop pellets, add a drop of dish soap at
bottling to insure you get a quality NO-Head brew, and if that is still to
heavy, add 4 gals of water to thin the brew to the water like state of
the mega swill.
Pardon my waste of bandwith, now for my 20 bandwidth sig. sign off!!
Ed Quier ELQ1 at PGE.COM Eureka, Ca.
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1655, 02/11/95