FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Sanitizing kegs (Al Pacifico)
  Sleepy yeasties (Ian the camel)
  Automated brewing (BILL MARKS)
  Belgian Trippels (Diane S. Put)
  Hail to Ale Competition (offpeak)
  5L taps/ftpmail (Ronald Moucka)
  BBC Hops (Ronald Moucka)
  BBC hops/another use for steam (Ronald Moucka)
  Gravity dispensing and Oxygen (Gilad Barak)
  RIMS Temperature Control (Evan Kraus)
  Wooden Casks (Terry Terfinko)
  Re: AHA/BJCP/HBWTA split (David Cutkosky)
  Rare Hops (Gary Bell)
  Re: Feeback Request: UK-Oriented Homebrewing (Tel +44 784 443167)
  My ESB (Jim Busch)
  Re: Belgian Dubbel (John DeCarlo              )
  Re: Water Adjustments (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  AHA and the BJCP (Mark A. Stevens)
  Re: removing rubber (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Belhaven recipe (Jim Cave)
  RIMS Temperature Control (Jeff Berton)
  Preparation of Isinglass (Jim Cave)
  RE: Grain FAQ, Cloudy Beer Problem (Jim Dipalma)
  Aeration in 2ndary/Screw-top Buckets/ (" Patrick G. Babcock")
  Pressure Relief Valves for Soda Kegs, Stirring (Waldon, Tracy )
  Newsgroups? (Scott Howe)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:46:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Pacifico <pacifico at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Sanitizing kegs

Since there's been a lot of discussion about sanitizing Cornelius kegs 
lately, I wanted to share an approach I've used and see what people think.
  I take a 5 gallon keg and add about two gallons of boiloing water, then 
seal it. I shake it up real hard and let it sit on the floor a while. I 
then might flip it and rest it on its top to let the boiling water 
contact the lid and seal for a while. Then I attack a quick disconnect to 
the "in" connector while it's inverted to drain some boiling water 
through that connector. The shaking of the keg generates steam and 
pressure within, so the water comes out pretty quickly. I use this 
technique to sanitize the pressure relief valve and the "out" connector 
and siphon tube.
  I've never had any problems with my kegs using this technique, although 
if the boiling water sits in there a long time, the rubber boot at the 
bottom smells kind of funny.
  Anyone tried this or had problems with damaging kegs or inadequately 
sanitizing them?

al pacifico
university of washington



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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 16:48:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Ian the camel <ianq at owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: Sleepy yeasties


	Had a quick question for the hefty stout-makers.  Was making a 
stout with some of the following: 6 lbs dark malt extract, 4 amber, 17.6 
oz. turbinado and a pound of treacle.  All in all, starting gravity was 
about 1.110 (Oy!) and, after a little vigorous fermentation with Irish 
Wyeast, it settled to around 1.047.  Upon tasting, it's still pretty 
sweet, and presumably the high alcohol content made life unhappy for the 
poor little yeasties (that'll teach me to use so many sugars).  Pitched 
in some addtional Wyeast sweet mead in a honey starter, and not much 
happened (after two or three days it was still 1.047).  Any suggestions?  
I want to stray from champagne yeast because it might rob the treacle of 
its flavor.  The local brew store suggested blue lalvin yeast in an apple 
juice starter.  Anyone have any suggestions?  Furthermore, does anybody 
have any idea why apple juice is allegedly so effective?  Thanks muchly.




Ian Quigley (ianq at owlnet.rice.edu)
Baker 151, Rice University	
Houston, Texas 77005-1891
							


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Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 18:56:00 -0400
From: bill.marks at nccbbs.com (BILL MARKS)
Subject: Automated brewing

Norm Pyle's luke warm response to the idea of automating an all
grain system got me thinking.  Can it be done - not should it -
but can it.  I'm going to try it just for the fun of it.  I'm
going to automate it using a 386 and a couple of ADCs and relay
boards.  That part is simple at least in terms of locating
hardware that will work. I already have the pumps and
temperature sensors and a gas fired recirculation system using
a Superb propane burner that I can fine adjust to raise the
mash temperature at 1.5 - 2 deg F per minute.  I have even got
good, consistent numbers for the overshoot so I know when to
quit pouring the BTUs to it and hit the temperature I want.
The problem: valves.  I need a source for solenoid or motor
operated valves in the 3/8 inch pipe size range.  I'm going to
nedd 8 or so.  AQny thoughts out there in HBD land?  E-mail is
fine or answer in the digest and keep the thread alive.

Obviously, I would like to hear from anybody that has actually
automated a 3 vessel, 15 gallon system.

TIA
Bill Marks
Portsmouth, RI

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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 18:24:21 PST
From: diput at eis.calstate.edu (Diane S. Put)
Subject: Belgian Trippels

>From *Don* Put: 

Dave Pike <davep at cirrus.com> asks:

>What's the HBD's concensus on the best sugar for brewing Belgian style 
>Trippels? Does corn sugar work ok, or does an invert or candi sugar 
>work better?

I just brewed a tripple, trippel, or triple (I have found it spelled 
different ways in different publications, although the spellings with
double "p" seem to be more common) and about 13.5% of the grain bill
was sugar.  Rajotte, in the _Belgian_Ale_ book, states that you can use
"up to about 25% of total extract" when brewing this style.  Here's what
I added for a 10 gallon batch:

1 lb. Clear candi sugar (which I'm told is just regular sucrose)
1 lb. Medium candi sugar (it's nice to have most of my family in Belgium!)
      This is a combination of carmelized sugar and invert sugar in almost
      a 50/50 mixture according to the spec sheets I have from Candico, 
      Belgium's premiere producer of sugar products.
2 lbs. Invert sugar made using Jeff Frane's recipe from Zymurgy.  Thanks,
       Jeff!

This was added to the wort obtained from 26lbs. of Belgian Pils malt.
The resulting wort (11.5 gallons post boil) was 1.088 SG.  I pitched a 
large, healthy yeast starter (this is very important for these high-
gravity brews) and it fermented out to 1.010 at 60F.  I tasted it tonight
and it's everything a trippel should be: clean, fairly neutral tasting (none
of the higher alcohols that really don't belong here), a slighty sweet
finish, good mouth feel, and a lingering warm feeling from the alcohol 
(about 10.23% by volume).  It's extremely smooth for being so strong.  

I plan on conditioning it for a couple months at 50F (my cellar temp right 
now), then pitching fresh yeast at bottling time.  This is extremely 
important when you want to reproduce the lively nature of the Belgian
high-gravity ales.  It's also good practice for any high-gravity beers. 

Hope this helps,

don
(diput at eis.calstate.edu until Feb. 20th)
(dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu after Feb. 20th)




- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 22:18:09 -0500
From: offpeak at aol.com
Subject: Hail to Ale Competition

I have a story to relate about a recent AHA Club-Only competition.  I am
pretty steamed, but would like to get others' opinions.

A brewer in our club, The Prairie Homebrewing Companions of Fargo, North
Dakota, had a pale ale pass the club gauntlet, and be entered in the Hail
to Ale competition in Florida.  Today,  he got his score sheets back:  two
recognized judges scored the IPA 47 and 47 in the first round.  This ale
did not place in the second (final) round!  After calling a couple of
other members of the club, he called James Spence, at the AHA, to see what
kind of scores the first, second, and third place finishers had.  The
scores were 44, 37, and 36, respectively.  Reportedly, Spence said "high
scorers do not always win this type of competition".  There apparently was
some kind of second/final round, but apparently no scores were given; it
was some kind of perception thing.

If the story above is accurate, which I believe it is, what is the use of
entering this type of contest?

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Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:43:41 GMT
From: rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Subject: 5L taps/ftpmail

Fellow Brewers,

Two quick questions:  I would like to obtain a second 5L
mini keg tap for parts.  Does anyone out ther have one
they've given up on?  I'd be willing to pay a few bucks for
one, especially if the tapping part is still functional (I
don't care if the CO2 end isn't).

Secondly, can someone help me with ftpmail?  I've tried
every syntax I can think of, but can't seem to get it to
work.  My access to the net is through a BBS, and is not
"real time" so I'm forced to use the ftpmail method.  I'm
trying to get a DOS copy of SUDS.  I know the archives have
moved, but do the archives include only back issues of HBD,
or does it include all the FAQ's, programs, etc?  Sorry this
isn't directly beer related, but I've run out of options.

Many TIA
       .:.
      :.:.
    /|~~~~|
   (_| D  |
     |  B |   Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
     `----'   DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
  "It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
   as it is a reflection of our abilities."
rmoucka at omn.com

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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 17:54:06 GMT
From: rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Subject: BBC Hops

Brew Buds,

About 3 months ago I sent Jim and the good folks at Boston
Brewing Co (tm) a check for $12.00 for a pound of the
illusive Mittlefrueh hops rumored to be available to
homebrewers.  Although the check has not been cashed, I
never heard a word from them.  Has anyone else out there
tried this and received anything from them?  Unfortunately,
I don't seem to be able to put my hands on their address or
phone.  Can anyone help me here?

Am I just a chump or what?
       .:.
      :.:.
    /|~~~~|
   (_| D  |
     |  B |   Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
     `----'   DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
  "It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
   as it is a reflection of our abilities."
rmoucka at omn.com

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 16:27:17 GMT
From: rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Subject: BBC hops/another use for steam

Brewers,

The day I posted my question about what ever happened to the
Boston Beer Co hop offer, I received a calendar from BBC
with their address and phone on the first page.  Cool daily
calendar with a beer quote or trivia for each day of the
year.  They can be had free of charge by writing BBC at The
Brewery, 30 Germania St., Boston, MA 02130 or call 617 522-
3400.  Say what you will about Jim Koch and his business
practices, they make a decent beer and if you can overlook
the blatant commercialism of their freebees, they are nice.
Anyway, as for the hops, they are still available.
According to the person answering the phone at BBC, they are
waiting for a large enough number of orders to make a bulk
mailing.  One pound of Mittlefreuh hops (pellets I think) for
$12.  Send a check to the above address.  My thanks to those
of you who answered my post.  Hope this answers any
questions.

On another note, I've noticed a lot of talk about steam
lately.  I have another use for steam that was suggested by
a member of my local brew club.  I've been using it for a
few years now with no ill effects.  I use steam to clean my
kegs.  I picked up a tea pot at a second hand store for 25
cents.  Take a drilled rubber stopper (#8 I think) and
insert a short piece of copper tubing (4").  Now attach a 4-
6' piece of hose to the copper tube and a liquid disconnect
on the other end.  Now simply insert the stopper in the tea
pot and connect the liquid disconnect to the keg.  Make sure
you attach a gas disconnect to the other side of the keg to
vent out the steam.  Put some water in your tea pot and
boil.  The steam will sanitize the kegs and poppets in 15-20
minutes.  Make sure your system is open or the pressure will
build up and blow your stopper across the room in no time.
Takes an hour or two to cool and you will want to drain the
condensation from the keg.  I've never had a contamination
problem using this method.  YMMV All disclaimers apply.

Brew On,
       .:.
      :.:.
    /|~~~~|
   (_| D  |
     |  B |   Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
     `----'   DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
  "It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
   as it is a reflection of our abilities."
rmoucka at omn.com

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:08:04 --300
From: gilad at orbotech.co.il (Gilad Barak)
Subject: Gravity dispensing and Oxygen

In HBD1654 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> said:
>[snip]
> you can always gravity tap the keg, however, you will be introducing
> oxegen, and therefore should probably finish it off within 5 days before
> the beer spoils.

IMHO oxygen has nowhere to come from because this is a sealed container with
CO2 in the headspace.
What will happen is that with gravity dispensing the pressure will
simply drop and the beer will get less carbonated, but not oxygenated.
When beer is dispensed by gravity the headspace grows and the pressure falls
(Dalton`s law - Pressure * Volume = constant). The dissolved CO2 in the beer 
will diffuse to the headspace until equilibrium is reached (Henry`s law) so 
what actually goes into the increased headspace is CO2. The pressure in the
headsoace will rise but will be lower than at the beginning and the beer will 
now be less carbonated. It will not spoil, it will simply go flat. 

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gilad Barak - Israel
gilad at orbotech.co.il
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 6:54:11 EST
From: Evan Kraus <ejk at bselab.bls.com>
Subject: RIMS Temperature Control

With all the talk of AI or PID control for say a RIMS system by a PC.
Has anyone written any code to say read an A to D device such as that
shown in the Jan/Feb issue of BT and take those readings and say pulse an
electronic relay or triac and keep the mash temp within a desired range
and at selected times raise said temp up to complete a mashing schedule ?

Well if your out there I am interested and can build the components
required to interface with the I/O of a pc.

I already use a RIMS and love it but I am interested in further
automating my mashing procedures

What I am looking for is a program that will read an A/D device 
and is able to pulse a triac etc. with the ability for me to put in 
the times and temperatures for a  at least of 4 rests and to possibly 
increase the speed of the pump during the move up in temp from one rest
to another.

I would also suppose that there are others out there that would also be 
interested in this !!

Evan

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 8:20:09 EST
From: Terry Terfinko <terfintt at ttown.apci.com>
Subject: Wooden Casks

John Dunlop asks:

>Can anyone provide me with addresses or phone numbers of USA <
>suppliers of wooden casks and supplies in the 3 to 5 gallon range.<

The Brewlab carries some unique items for casking beer.  They have 3
to 15 gallon oak casks.  They are putting a new catalog together and will 
soon have an 800 number for mail-order.  No affiliation... etc.
	The Brewlab
	1039 Hamilton Street
	Allentown, PA  18101
	Phone:  610-821-8410

Cheers,
Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com


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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 08:45:45 -0500
From: davidc at interaccess.com (David Cutkosky)
Subject: Re: AHA/BJCP/HBWTA split


In HBD #1654 (Norman Pyle) npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM writes:

>I for one, can't help but see this AHA/BJCP/HBWTA split as a power struggle.
>If so, this can do homebrewing no good at all.  I'd like to hear some
>discussion from current BJCP judges on this.  What's going on here, folks?


Norm:

This is currently being *hotly* debated on the beer judge digest. This
probably isn't the correct forum to be discussing the political impacts of
organizations in the brewing community. The header information from the
digest is included below. See the archive site for past copies of the digest
and the reaction of respected judges.

			 THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST

                 digest submissions: judge at synchro.com
          administrative requests: judge-request@ synchro.com
    send cancellations & rank updates to the administrative address
	  messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored

          FTP Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu in /pub/judge
        WWW Archives: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/Judge
              Gopher Archives: guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu

                 Editor: Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>
       Archivist: Spencer Thomas <spencer.w.thomas at med.umich.edu>



- --                              
David,   St. Charles, IL
                               Dammit Jim, I'm a homebrewer
davidc at interaccess.com                  not a doctor!


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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 07:23:46 -0800
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: Rare Hops

I dropped by to visit a friend who runs a small brewery yesterday and 
discovered a new hop. It's called Columbus, and is *very* impressive. 
It's a high alpha hop (13.5%) but still retains great aroma qualities. I 
think it's derived from Cascade (?), but it has greater complexity of 
aroma - it has a faint spiciness that reminds me of Hallertauer. My 
buddy had just used it for aroma in his IPA and it was stunning!

I assume it will be awhile before we see it in the homebrew catalogues, 
though!

Cheers,

Gary



- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Bell             "Laxo, non excrucio, poto cervisia domestica."
Lake Elsinore, CA                
(909) 674-3637 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:28:49 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Feeback Request: UK-Oriented Homebrewing

In HBD 1654, "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
wrote:
> 
> I've now seen two of your HBD posts and assume you haven't seen
> any responses.  I'm replying publicly because I would like HBD
> reader's thoughts here, too.
> 

        My reason for multiple postings were, partially based on the
reasons behind the original request. I, as a UK reader of HBD, will
often only scan quickly through HBD if I am short of time. If most
of the postings appear to be on subjects that are not applicable
to me then I will not spend too much time on any particular issue
of the digest. I occasionally miss interesting posts this way. My
fears were that other UK brewers may do the same and hence the second
posting to catch anybody that slipped through the net (no pun
intended). :)
        As far as response is concerned, I have had a fair number
of responses, mostly from UK readers of HBD and r.c.b but a few
from the US and Canada. Some of the non-UK repsonses have been simple
"yes" votes but others have expressed worries similar to your own
and for similar reasons.

> 
> ...much if not most of our supplies come from the the UK, as did the
> Sex Pistols, I believe.
> 

        Don't you go blaming me for the Sex Pistols - that was Malcolm
MacClaren's fault. :)

> 
> So....although I feel strongly you should have your own news
> group if you want one (and shouldn't have to answer to anyone
> to put one in place), I for one would hate to lose insight into whatever it 
> is you're doing with beer over there.  I don't mind
> subscribing to another news group and don't see what harm it
> could do--but I'm a USENET neophyte.
> 

        This is one of the sentiments expressed by the non-UK respondees.
Firstly, it is not our intention to take a "we're having a party and you're
not invited" approach. Although there is a complication that uk. prefixed
groups may not be widely available outside of the UK, this is, I understand,
not always going to be the case. I believe that at least some of these
groups are available outside of the UK which shows that non-UK site
administrators may well be open to accepting the group if there is sufficient
interest in their specific content. So why propose a service which may not,
in the short term at least, be available to some of the people who may be
interested? Basically, uk. groups are not part of Usenet and so do not have
the same problems associated with setting them up (request for votes, minimum
numbers etc.). They are likened to the alt. category in that they are less
formal and less complicated to set up (although there are some small
formalities). Judging by response that I have had, there are nowhere near
enough people for the idea of a Usenet group to be taken seriously but this
sort of issue is not considered so important for uk. goups. I and one or two
other UK net-brewers have been talking on and off about the desire for
UK-specific services since sometime last year and, it is not only me who
feels strongly that the heavy leanings of HBD and r.c.b toward non-UK
issues ultimately dilutes the usefulness of these areas to us. My discovery
of the uk. prefixed groups and the relative ease of access to them is the
result of the requests for feedback on this subject. If it turned out that
there were only one or two of us that felt this way then it would have shown
that it was us who had the problem. As it turns out, it would appear that
a good number of UK net-brewers feel the same way and so my request seems
to have been justified. Whether or not a new group would be a success or
not is another matter but the facts would indicate that we UK people need
to sort something out between us to enhance, not replace, what HBD and
r.c.b can do for us all.
        On an overall note, it is a sad fact that the UK HB world is nowhere
near as advanced or progressive as that in the US. This doesn't mean that
there aren't HBers out there who don't want help or contact with other UK
homebrewers. What it means is that there are limited resources available
to UK HBers where they can get that help or make that contact. It is as a
result of these facts that some of us feel that a UK specific service
would strengthen our HB world and be a positive thing all round. There are
one or two other issues which are on the cards and may come about if we
can get our acts together - assuming that any of these things happen then
we will keep you all posted.

Cheers,
        Brian Gowland



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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:01:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: My ESB

Ive got a lot of requests for my ESB recipe, so Ill post it.

Its not Fullers ESB, but on an engine, its close enough!

Munton & Fison Pale ale malt
Dewolf Munich 3-5%
Dewolf CaraVienne 3-5%
Dewolf CaraMunich 3-5%

OG 13.2, FG 3.2

Kettle hops, 70g Styrian Goldings, 60 min
	     15g Styrian Goldings, 25 min
	     Finish       36g East Kent Goldings, 0 min
	     36g East Kent Goldings, dry hop
	     Note these are whole hops (5%), reduce if you use pellets.

	     Mash 148F 10 min, raise to 152-4F for 45, raise to 170, lauter.

	     Use a British yeast like Wyeast 1098/1968.

I actually brew this to an cast out OG of 16.3P and dilute to 13.2P. If
you brew a regular version, then go low or skip the Munich malt.  I dont
list pounds of malt, since this will vary with each brewers system.
- -- 
Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:08:03 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Belgian Dubbel

DCB2%OPS%DCPP at bangate.pge.com wrote:

>Paul had asked if anyone had a recipe for Belgian Dubbel.
>I used this recipe when I did my first mashing.  It came out dark and quite
>strong.  Since the bitterness is rather low it has a deceptive sweetness
>about it that masks it true strength and a lot of body. Know your limit<g>.
>For 5 gallons (US) use:
>
>9.5 lbs pale malt
>4 oz.   Crystal malt (20 deg L)
>4 oz.   Brown malt

After tasting many Belgian Dubbels, and brewing the the Belgian Special B 
malt, I suggest that you really need at least 4 oz. of this (if not 8 oz or 
more) for a more authentic version.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:09:33 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Water Adjustments

Pulsifer at aol.com wrote about Water Adjustments: 
 >  I added gypsum.  The pH was still high.

A common misconception.  Gypsum, in and of itself, does NOT reduce pH.
It adds calcium, which reacts with compounds *in the grain* to
produce acid (phytic acid, as I recall).  So your pH measurements are
really irrelevant unless you do them in a mash.

=S

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:08:23 -0500
From: stevens at stsci.edu (Mark A. Stevens)
Subject: AHA and the BJCP

In HBD 1654, Lee Bussy (leeb at southwind.net) writes:

> I have seen a couple of posts from people regarding the AHA's
> pullout of the BJCP.
> First of all, the thread should never have been started here.  After
> this I suggest we keep it to the JudgeNet where it belongs.
> Second, It doesn't concern the average homebrewer, but it does
> suggest a general trend in the AHA towards a kinder, gentler
> dictatorship!

Homebrewers who are not judges and don't read JudgeNet should at least
be aware that the AHA has chosen to abandon the BJCP. They should know
that the BJCP continues to exist independently of AHA. They should not
be surprised when the AHA rolls out an "alternative" (i.e., controlled
by AHA with no input from homebrewers) judging program and they should 
not be surprised to hear about growing discontent with AHA in the 
homebrewing community.

Yeah, JudgeNet is the best place for the discussion to continue, but
Average Joe Homebrewer should at least be aware that the issues exist
so that he or she can look for the discussion if they're interested and
will at least know to take whatever Zymurgy prints about this issue
with a ton of salt. 

Cheers!
- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at stsci.edu


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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:04:12 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: removing rubber

Algis R. Korzonas wrote about removing rubber: 
 > I suppose you could use fine steel wool, but I believe you would
 > have to use *stainless* steel wool (if you can find it).  I recall reading
 > somewhere that regular steel wool should not be used on stainless steel.

How about a "ScotchBrite" pad?  It's sort of "plastic steel wool".  I
bet it would do the trick nicely.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 9:32:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: Belhaven recipe

	There have been several requests for the Belhaven (export) recipe.
This one is the one that is the export (i.e. bottled version).  Wheeler and
Protz have the actual brewers formulations.  Note:  Most of you will find 
that you will get probably 20% more extract from this recipe than they
indicate.  You will want to adjust for your systems.  The percentages given
include the sugar added (i.e. 86% pale, 2.5% crystal, 1.5% black, and 10% 
maltose).

       From: Wheeler and Protz, 1993, Brew your own Real Ale at home.
       ISBN-85249-113-2 CAMRA, St Albans.

Belhaven, 80/
Scottish Cask-Conditioned Ale
OG:  1.0415

Mash:

Pale malt:    3,900 g (86%)
Crystal Malt: 115 g (2.5%)
Black Malt:   65 g 1.(1.5%)

"In the copper"
Maltose syrup:450 g
B.C. Bramlings: 23 g (start of boil)
Fuggles Hops: 31 g (start of boil)
Goldings:     12 g (last 15 minutes)
Irish Moss:   1 tsp (last 15 minutes)

Mash temp 65 C
Mash Liquor 10 litres
Mash time 90 minutes
Boil time 2 hours
Alcohol content 4.2%
Final Gravity 1.010
Bitterness 28 EBU
Final Volume:  23 litres

The extract version calls for replacing the pale malt with 2,850 g of
non-diastatic, light coloured exctact.

For the mash, Protz in his other book (Real Ale drinkers almanac-CAMRA)
quotes the same percentages as above but instead of Maltose syrup, he
quotes liquid sugar.  Personally I don't think it matters.  I think you'll have 
to adjust all ingredients proportionally on this one to match your brewing 
system.  

              
                      Enjoy!   Jim Cave





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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:16:15 -0500 (EST)
From: jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Berton)
Subject: RIMS Temperature Control

Kirk writes:
>I argue that
>because the period of the entire wort circulation cycle is
>small (~8 gallons of mash liquor pumped at ~7GPM) my temp
>reading *is* the temp, for all practical purposes.  What we
>don't know (among many other things :->) is whether we can
>actually pump that fast thru the grain bed or not.  TBD.

I think you'll find that to be true.  In my RIMS, I have several thermistors
mounted throughout the system.  When I'm pumping at my maximum rate, I can't
tell the difference in temperature between the thermistor in the mash tun and
the thermistor at the exit of my 1000W electric heater.  The tun is insulated,
and my magnetic-drive pump is rated at 5.5 gpm at zero head.  I'm sure there is
some friction head loss when pumping through a grain bed, but my eye can't tell
the difference in the pumping rate.  I'll have to measure it next time I brew. 
Incidentally, the only time I do not pump at the maximum rate is when I'm
sparging.  I first tried sparging with the pump off, but the tun developed
temperature gradients throughout the process.  Now when I sparge, I take
advantage of the basic RIMS concept and I pump at a reduced rate (with the
heater slightly on) so that I do not disturb the grain bed.  

Donbrew writes: 
>Tried dimmer, don"t work at all. You do need the flicker effect of the 
>controller on the heater. Full power on at any time is death to enzymes in my 
>experience.

For those of you, like myself, who are intimidated by building complicated
control circuits, I use a dimmer with success.  It's rated at 1000W (the same
as my electric immersion heater) and cost about $20.  Any hardware store will
carry them.  As I approach a rest temperature, I turn the dimmer down.  It's
easy to find the equilibrium setting required to maintain a temperature.  I can
even walk away for fifteen minutes at a time without worrying about straying
from my desired temperature.  And since the heater exit temperature is
virtually the same as my mash temperature, I don't think I'm denaturing any
enzymes or scorching the liquor.  I think a good pump is essential to a RIMS'
success.

Here's a question for everyone:  at 1000W, I can heat my particular mash at
about one degree Fahrenheit per minute.  Is there any information that would
indicate this is too slow?  To compensate for the elevated beta amylase
reactions, I suppose I could simply target a higher starch conversion
temperature, but I haven't worried about it.  Some large breweries' mash tuns
are heated, rather than infused with hot water.  What is a typical heating rate
in such a brewery?

Also, rather than using a dimmer switch, has anyone tried to control their
electric heaters using one of those variable time-delay solid state relays?
They just turn the current on and off at intervals set by a knob, and, from the
heater's point of view, would have much the same effect as a dimmer switch. 
And since dimmer switch prices rise dramatically with capacity, I would think
such a relay would be better suited for controlling heaters greater than 1000W.
- --
Jeff Berton, Aeropropulsion Analysis Office, NASA Lewis Research Center
jeff344 at voodoo.lerc.nasa.gov


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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:32:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: Preparation of Isinglass

      There has been some discussion about the correct use of Isinglass. 
Isinglass is a very good fining and I believe that it is the best one to use in
cask-conditioned ales.  It does, however, require some additional preparation
which includes:  rehydration, addition of acid blend, use of a blender, and
refrigeration.  Apparently, if the temperature of Isinglass exceeds 20 C it will
become inactive. Also, I have found that if it is frozen, it will also become
inactive.  

      Wheeler (Home Brewing, The CAMRA guide) states that preparation
will require blending, preferably one hour.  He does not mention the use of
acid blend.  However, he does indicate the appropriate quantity to be used:
50 milligrams per litre of beer to be fined. This works out to about 1.25 g
per 25 litres, or about 1 gram per 5 U.S. Gal.  It should be mixed into a
small quantity of beer prior to adding to the main batch.

      Terry Foster (Pale Ale, Classic beer series) indicates he uses 5 grams
of dry Isinglass and 5 grams tartaric acid (or winemakers acid blend) and one
gram of sodium metabisulphite to one pint (English?) of water.  This is
shaken 3-4 times a day for 4 days.  He uses 6 oz of this to 5 gallons of
beer. (Note, this is a slightly higher quantity).

      I use the following procedure:  2.5 grams of Isinglass, 2 grams of
ascorbic acid, 500 ml water. Stir and let sit in fridge for a couple of hours. 
Blend with a Braun hand blender for a minute. Return to fridge. Blend when
you feel like it a few times more.  There should be no chunks visible. Ready
for use in 12 hours.  Shake gently before using. Store in stoppered bottle
(Grolsch bottle is good).  Use a third of this solution (167 mls) for each 
cornelius keg.  Beer is bright in 24 hours.  You should try and be as sanitary
as possible when doing this.

      What I am not sure about is the precise pH that is required.  I'm
guessing.  There may be someone on the 'Net who knows.  Vancouver
water is the softest in the world (< 5 ug hardness) and is slightly acid. 
Therefore, there is no buffering going on.

			Jim Cave

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 10:59:56 EST
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Grain FAQ, Cloudy Beer Problem


   Hi All,

In HBD #1654, GRMarkel asks:

>A couple of months ago someone submitted a summary of grains and their uses.
>I thought it was going to be entered as a FAQ - grains but after searching
>the sanford site I could not locate it. If someone could tell me what
>number(s) of HBD this summary appeared in, it would be a great help.

  I saved those articles, and have them online. In the interest of conserving
bandwidth, I won't re-post them here. Anyone who would like a copy, send
private email to the address below.

Ken Schroeder writes about a problem with cloudy beer:

>For the past three or four months my beers have been coming out cloudy. Even
>several weeks of cold conditioning does not clear the beer.

  Cloudiness can occur from many causes, each of which requires different
treatments.

>I recirculate the wort as I raise
>the mash to strike, allow the grain bed to set and start a long sparge (1 to
>1.5 hrs.) once the wort runs clear (subjective term).
           ^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  The wort from your lauter tun should run very clear after a few minutes of
recirculation. If it doesn't, you likely have either a filtration problem, or
you're getting unconverted starch in the wort. Check the crush, the husks
should be nearly intact. If they are shredded, the filtration provided by the
grain bed will suffer, and you will have difficulty getting the wort to run
clear. As for the unconverted starch, sacc. rest temperatures of 60C-68C are
reasonable, but you did not mention how long these temps are held, or
whether you checked for complete conversion. Also, check your grain bed temp,
it should be under 170F. 

>My mash usually sits at about
>5.4 or 5.3 pH during the mash and dropps to 4.8 to 5.0 during sparge.
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  This is a sign that the sparge water is over-acidified. A good rule of thumb
here is to acidify the sparge water to 5.7-5.8 or so, so that the pH in the
tun will *rise* from ~5.2-5.4 at the beginning of the sparge, but still be
somewhere under 6.0 at the conclusion (excess tannin extraction becomes a
problem if the pH rises above 6.0). Check the pH of the wort just prior to
the boil, it should be roughly 5.7-5.8 or so. A pH of 5.0 or less, which
yours is, inhibits the coagulation of proteins, you will not get a good hot
break. The resulting high level of long chain proteins in the beer causes
both haze and stability problems.
  If the beer is clear at room temperature but becomes cloudy when chilled,
then you have a chill haze problem. Rehydrate 1 TBS of Irish moss a few hours
before the boil, and add it for the last 15 minutes. Fining with polyclar at
the end of secondary fermenation is also effective against chill haze.
  Finally, there are some strains of yeast that have notoriously poor
flocculation characteristics (Wyeast 1098 English, e.g.). I've had wort that
was crystal clear after trub seperation turn extremely cloudy after pitching
with 1098. Two weeks of fermentation and racking to secondary does nothing
to improve the clarity, I routinely have to fine with gelatin when using
this yeast.

         Hope this helps,
           Jim               dipalma at sky.com

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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 15:06:49 EST
From: " Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql at ibmmail.com>
Subject: Aeration in 2ndary/Screw-top Buckets/                            

*** Resending note of 02/10/95 13:50
* Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its *
* original dimension.                 - Oliver Wendell Holmes *
Subject: 2ndary Aeration/Immersion chiller/Screwtop Buckets/Cloramine/BJCP

 -=> In HBD #1654, Cap'n Kirk asks about aeration during fermentation (that's
    effectively what dropping the beer is, right?)...

Oxidation of the beer, and the associated 'off' flavors, are the traditional
concerns (in the U.S, anyway). This is not intended as a flame against Brian;
just a simple statement!

I was also intrigued by his post regarding dropping the beer. Perhaps we've
been too damned concerned with something that isn't going to have a great
effect on our beer? (Another occurrence of those 'experts' spouting their
opinions, I would imagine?) Anyway, I, too, intend to try this dropping of the
beer on my next British ale (superstition will prevent me from doing it on
anything else until I prove it out on that for which it was intended...)

 -=> in HBD #1654, Eamonn McKernan asks about stirring the wort while immersion
    chilling goes to work...

Yes! Stirring the hot wort (gently) to move it around the chiller coils will
improve efficiency. Actually, when I was an immersion-type guy, I used to do
it by moving the chilling coils around in the wort (had about 3 inches in any
given direction...). Did this on and off (figure in the boredom factor, and
the intense boredom factor) during the cooling. Never resulted in an
infection.

 -=> In HBD #1653 someone asks for screw-top buckets for less than a fortune...

B&B brewing has screw-tops for $10.50 + shipping; $9.75 each for two or more.
B&B Brewing 1-800-834-5459...
    ...ask for a catalog. (BTW: I'm not affiliated...)

 -=> Dean A. Pulsifier asks about chloramine removal...

I may have posted this here before (so many forums, so little memory...), but
I believe chloramines can be removed through the use of activated charcoal
filtration. I achieve this through an Omni Whole House filter (BTW: this is
the basis for the Filter Store's beer filter. It and the necessary conversion
fittings can be had for a lot less than their filter. The 5 micron cartridges?
If you make your's out of the same size unit as their's, I assume you could
buy the cartridges from the Filter Store...). Anyway, my house water also
smells and tastes a lot better since installing this puppy. Change the
cartridge about once every six months (depends on your usage)...

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thermal barrier. Cross at your own risk. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 -=> And, also in HBD 1654, Lee Bussey preaches that ol' time religion -
    Oh, ye lowly ones...

Well, Lee, I'm sorry you feel that we are not worthy of discussing this topic
here. Personally, I've met several judges who aren't worth a cracked carboy.
(Must have cheated on their tests, hey?) On the other hand, I've met more who
were very knowledgeable, and actually helpful. (You seemed to fit this
category, as do the majority of judges.) However, about every judge I've ever
met demonstrates that same arrogance, at some point or other. Granted, you've
studied, demonstrated your knowledge on a grueling test, and sat in judgement
over many peoples' brewing endeavors. You've probably bolstered a few;
probably crushed a few. I'm happy for you. Just remember - Homebrewers aren't
for judges - in fact, the converse is true: judges are for homebrewers.
Without people willing to have the fruits of their efforts scrutinized, beer
judges would find life tediously boring. Yeah, you've made a 'sacrifice' to
try and help us meek little brewers out. Doesn't mean we have to appreciate
it...

Sorry for the flaming, but this is a democracy. We can talk about anything we
like. (Cordiality? Public flammables beget public flames. I'm sure I won't be
alone...)

Brewing with napalm in Detroit....
P.G. Babcock


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Date: Fri Feb 10 15:35:30 1995
From: <TWALDON at fcc.gov> (Waldon, Tracy )
Subject: Pressure Relief Valves for Soda Kegs, Stirring

Dave Pike asks:

  < Does anyone know of, or use, automatic pressure release valves while 
      fermenting in corny kegs? 

Brian North of North Brewery Supplies in Milwaukee carries just such an item.  I
don't have the address or phone with me at work, but he should have an ad in
Zymurgy or Brewing Techniques.  

The item comes with or without a gauge and I believe it runs $15 to $25.  I have
not used one, but have had my eye on it myself.  

One note of caution when fermenting in 5 gallon kegs is that the decrease in the
ratio of bottom surface area to volume may cause a reduction in diacetyl pickup
as fermentation ends.  Reportedly  the problem is much less pronounced when
using 10 gallon cornelius kegs.  Certainly the yeast strain is particularly
important here.


Eamonn McKernan asks:

< I'm looking for your vote on immersion chillers: To stir or not to stir?

Stir.  If you are using an immersion chiller the lid will already 
be cracked open a bit for the hoses.  I find this to be plenty 
of room for the handle of my large SS spoon to stick out. 
 I don't stir for the first 10 - 15 minutes (until wort gets down to 
about 120 F)  because I'm lazy.  Although I could argue that 
it's to reduce hot-side aeration.  I then just sort of pump the blade
 of the spoon up and down to get some movement of the
 wort.  If your tap water is as warm as it is in N. Virginia, then 
the stirring is the only way to go.  No problems with infections 
and unlikely to occur since lid stays on the pot.  Although a 
healthy dose of yeast doesn't hurt either.

                                                                           Tracy


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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:42:45 -0800
From: Scott Howe <howe at appmag.com>
Subject: Newsgroups?

Greetings, and pardon my cluttering the Digest with this.

    I need some advice on Brewing/Beer Newsgroups.  I am getting Net access 
through work, and they tell me they will only give me access to two newsgroups. 
I am going to get on the Austrailian Rules Football list, so that leaves ONE 
for Beer.  Our news server privides a few that deal with beer.  Of the 
following, I need to pick ONE.  Which ONE should it be?  

   alt.beer
   alt.beer.like-molson-eh
   rec.food.drink.beer
   muc.lists.beer.homebrew
   rec.crafts.brewing
   uiuc.org.homebrewers

    Another thing I need to know is whether any of the above have the mailing 
list option (Like HBD) in which case I would not pick it for the newsgroup, 
and get on the mailing list instead (Prefered!!!).  

    Maybe something said about each group any of you are a part of would be nice
as well.  My guess is that the alt.beer.like-molson-eh group is not for me, eh.
But I could be wrong.  What do the other homebrewing lists have that HBD does 
not?  My guess on the "beer" ones is that they have more info on commercial 
(mostly Micro) brewers, which does sound interesting to me; you can never 
have too much gossip! :)

   Thanks in advance for PRIVATE E-MAIL RESPONSES ONLY.  No need to clutter
HBD with this any more than necessary (and my note is bad enough!).  :| 

                    --Aubrey Howe, III
                      Brew more Beer!!!

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1656, 02/13/95