HOMEBREW Digest #1666 Mon 27 February 1995

Digest #1665 Digest #1667

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Assessment of AHA NHC Transcripts requested (Sean Lamb)
  Testing Starters. (Erik Speckman)
  CORONA Beer Recipe needed (Johnny B. Andrews)
  Grants & HSA/starter testing/"cheep" pumps/dryhopping/flocculation & aeration (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Overhopped Beer (Rafael C. Camarota / SJC Design Engineer )
  Extended Mashes/Dr. Lewis/Dixie and Moosehead/HSA (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  fining question (/DD.ID=MSMHRN01.RADAMS01/G=RICHARD/S=ADAMS/)
  RIMS motor speed control (todd boyce)
  Thermometers/Starters/IBU (Geoff Scott)
  Dropping and Diacetyl (Paul Murray)
  Re: Isinglass ("Robert W. Mech")
  Kegging principles (Schwab_Bryan)
  biscuit/WY1007 (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900  )
  Rogue-n-Berry; wild yeast (HOMEBRE973)
  chilling 2 pot boils (Joseph_Fleming_at_GSA-2P__2)
  Brew Legal in Mississipp (James Spence/AHA/BJCP)
  Holly Bananas Batman! (molloy)
  How to Brew a Mild ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  Belgian Candi Sugar ("Sieja, Edward M")
  Gott digest confessions (Christopher P. Weirup)
  source help (Gordon.Mckeever)
  Re-yeasting lager. (DUBOVIK)
  Auto-Mash (Matt_K)
  Yeast/Fermentation problems (Doug Flagg)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 13:10:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Sean Lamb <SLAMB at lrlmccer.jsc.nasa.gov> Subject: Assessment of AHA NHC Transcripts requested I'm planning on not renewing my membership in the AHA when it expires this summer. I'd like to take advantage of member discounts on any of the publications that they offer, prior to letting my membership lapse, given that the publications will make a worthwhile addition to my brewing library. I would like to request that anyone who has purchased any of the publications offered by Brewer's Publications provide me with an asessment of their worth. I am particularily interested in opnions on the AHA National Hombrew Conference transcripts. If you e-mail me, and I get enough responses, I'll post a summary. TIA Sean Lamb -- slamb at lrlmccer.jsc.nasa.gov -- Houston, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:19:26 -0800 From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman) Subject: Testing Starters. In HBD#1664 Keith Royster writes about a method to test starter activity: >I called the advise line of my local >supply store and explained that I wasn't sure if my yeast starter was >active or not. They instructed me to take a pinch of sugar (table >sugar is fine) and drop it into the starter bottle. If the yeast are >active in sufficient quantities, they will attack the sugar >agressively, almost consuming it all before it hits the bottom of the >bottle. The result will be a column of CO2 bubbles rising quickly to >the surface of the wort. It is actually quite amazing to watch! Let's just say that I am dubious. I think it is much more likely that the column of CO2 bubbles you see with this method is caused by outgassing of disolved CO2 triggered by the sugar than by the yeast rapidly metabolizing the sugar. You can do the same thing with a Sprite and it is to clear to have a heathy yeast population It still gives some indication that your starter was active recently but swirling the starter bottle around would probably work just as well. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 14:30:47 EST From: Johnny B. Andrews <jba at unx.sas.com> Subject: CORONA Beer Recipe needed I am a new home-brewer, having only one batch under my belt, and am trying to clone CORONA Mexican Cerveza. Why would you want to do that, you say? For me the first order of business in this home-brewing deal is to sell my wife on the idea - that means showing her that I can make a CORONA Beer. Can anyone offer a recipe for making this beer? My first attempt was drinkable but lacked flavor and did not have the characteristics of a CORONA. I used the following in my first batch: - WYEAST #2308 Munich lager liquid yeast - 1 lb. 20 lovabond 6-row caramel crystal malt (steeped 30 min. in boil) - 44 oz. Dutch Light Dry Malt - 1 3.3 lb. packet of light malt extract - 1 3.3 lb. packet of rice extract - 1 tsp. irish moss - 1 oz. 4.9 Aplpha Tettenang Bittering hops pellets (2/3 at start of boil, 1/3 15 minutes from end) - 1 oz. 3.9 Alpha Saaz Finishing Hops pellets (5 minutes from end of boil) - 1 oz.fining gelatin (added in secondary fermentation stage) - 3/4 cup corn sugar (for priming) I guess that I probably should have used one of the Czech. yeasts. The two that are immediately available to me are #2124 (Czech. traditioal Saaz, clean, malty), and #2278 (Czech. Pils Yeast, Classic dry finish with rich maltiness). Does anyone know which of these more closely matches the charactistics of a CORONA or if there is another I would be better off using? When I say that this batch lacked flavor, the main thing that it lacked was the "bite" on the back of your tongue that you typically associate with beer. Can anyone speculate what I might have done wrong? The only lead I have so far is that I have heard that fining gelatin may remove some flavor from beer. If nobody has a tried and true recipe can anyone at least offer suggestions as to what I might change in the above recipe to make my beer more like a CORONA? -Johnny E-MAIL: jba at unx.sas.com - -- *============================================================================* Johnny B. Andrews E-MAIL: jba at unx.sas.com SAS Institute, Software Production Systems MA-BELL: 919-677-8000 ext. 7546 "Dyin' ain't much of a livin' boy" - The Outlaw, Jose Wales Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Feb 95 13:32:00 -0600 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Grants & HSA/starter testing/"cheep" pumps/dryhopping/flocculation & aeration Art writes: >The hot wort flows >into an open stainless bucket called a "gran-<something>" and from there is >pumped into the boiler. Much foaming occurs in this bucket. The brewer on >duty said HSA was not a concern, that's just the way the system was >designed and that their Denver location uses a completely closed system. That's a "grant" and indeed some amount of HSA does occur. There are many breweries that have a similar device (I believe that Anchor is one and I've seen them in Jackson's books -- the ones I've seen in Jackson's books are all shiny brass, have a number of "gooseneck"-like "fountains" each with a valve -- take a look). There is some amount of HSA that does occur and it does affect the beer to some extent, however, one possible reason I can think of why this apparatus still makes good beer is because quite a bit of steam is produced, which displaces the some of the air surrounding the beer. Then again, taking Anchor beers for example, they are very different when they are fresh as compared to when they are only two weeks old. HSA (Hot-Side Aeration), in addition to adding varying amounts of sherrylike aromas, can provide oxygen for the later oxidation of other beer compounds, including hop oils. This is why as beer ages, it inevitably loses hop aroma. *** Keith writes: >>how can I tell if the starter is any good? It has led a troubled >>life and I really do not trust it. Is it as simple as smelling it, >>or should I take a taste of the 'beer' and see if it is bad? > >Smell and taste can't hurt. However, I had a similar question >concerning a starter of mine. I called the advise line of my local >supply store and explained that I wasn't sure if my yeast starter was >active or not. They instructed me to take a pinch of sugar (table >sugar is fine) and drop it into the starter bottle. If the yeast are >active in sufficient quantities, they will attack the sugar >agressively, almost consuming it all before it hits the bottom of the >bottle. The result will be a column of CO2 bubbles rising quickly to >the surface of the wort. It is actually quite amazing to watch! Try the same with salt and you'll get the same result. The sugar (or salt) is dissolving, not being eaten, and is providing nucleation sites for CO2 to form bubbles and rise to the top. This is merely a test for how much CO2 is dissolved in the starter and not a measure of yeast activity. *** Pier writes: >Improvement" - type discount hardware store and picked up a small pump used >to circulate water in those little garden fountains. The price, as I Careful... these may not be food grade and also may not be made to handle hot liquids or sanitizers. The short stay in the pump probably won't make beer that will kill you, but it may impart plastic/rubber/phenolic flavours. Jack Schmidling uses a water pump from an RV. At least we know it's food grade, but regarding handling hot liquids or bleach, I don't know what it's life would be or whether the bleach would taint the pump and impart bad flavours to the subsequent beer. *** David asks about dryhopping. You don't necessarily need a secondary to dryhop. I often dryhop in the primary and then go straight to bottling/kegging. I also don't use a bag of any sort, but I only use whole hops or plugs. I used pellets once and talked to a brewer last Sunday about all the problems he had racking a beer dryhopped with pellets (although his beer did smell great!) and I feel that it is much easier to dryhop with whole/plug hops since they float for the most part. I wait till the beer is virtually all fermented out and then add between 1/2 and 2 ounces of hops per 5 gallons. 7 to 10 days later, I rack to my bottling carboy/keg just using one of those orange-tip racking canes. Rarely are any of the petals sucked up and those are caught by my filler valve during bottling. I do lose a quart or two of beer, but I feel it's worth it for the great aroma. *** Kirk writes: >In item 2), I see no connection between flocculation levels and oxygen >depletion. Well sure, a highly flocculant yeast will deplete the available >local oxygen, and leave itself in a highly oxygen-depleted region. However, >given you initially oxygenate to some initial "sufficient" level, the needed >oxygen is still in solution and only needs to be made available to the yeast >by mixing the stew--getting the yeast dispersed into an oxygen-bearing >region of the liquid. I don't have a direct answer, but can point to the methods at Tadcaster Brewery (Samuel Smiths). It seems to me that some kind of non-aerating, mechanical device to rouse the yeast back into suspension would be employed if aeration did not prove to be essential or at least beneficial to the finished beer. Instead, they still use a pump to spray fermenting beer from the bottom of the Yorkshire stone squares up onto the yeast cake on top causing an incredible amount of aeration. I *speculate* that it may not necessarily be an issue of aeration being essential for the *yeast*, but rather essential for the *beer* (to produce it's characteristic, buttery flavour). By the way, this could be a very interesting topic at the Real Ale Fest... I've heard that invitations to several British brewing luminaries have been issued and I'm certain that Graham Wheeler is one of them. I know that Roger Protz has already said that he would attend unless it conflicts with "What's Brewing" publishing deadlines. Contact Dennis Davison for more info on the RAF (ddavison at earth.execpc.com). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 15:57:48 PST From: rafe at lattice.com (Rafael C. Camarota / SJC Design Engineer ) Subject: Overhopped Beer When it comes to hopping I think too much is always better then too little. The old saying that "the difference between a bad hair cut and a good one is about 2 weeks" can be applied to beer. Home brewing sometimes requires waiting for the beer to age to the proper taste for drinking. I have found that a bitter batch is wonderful with an additional 2-4 weeks aging at room temperature. And remember beer dosen't age in the frigor cold storage. It also seems that the aged batchs are a little richer in taste, either because of the hopping or the anticipation for the end product. Rafe Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Feb 95 09:20:00 -0600 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Extended Mashes/Dr. Lewis/Dixie and Moosehead/HSA Robert writes: >curiosity is why that these times are not sometimes longer. I would >think that if for instance the mash time at 154 for 1 hour, was extended >to lets say 1.5 hours, you could increase your extract efficency. It will only if you have any starch left after an hour. If your grind is rather coarse and your pH is not in the mid 5's, you may benefit from a longer saccharification rest. Note also, that as with most reactions temperature has a lot to do with how fast the conversion takes place. If everything is ideal, you can probably get complete conversion at 158F in less than 20 minutes, but at 145F, it may take 30 or 40 minutes (I usually do my amylase rest between 154F and 158F, so I have little data). How can you increase your efficiency? Check your pH, grind (too coarse will give you poor conversion, too fine will give you problems laeutering) and make sure you are sparging enough: For last Saturday's batch, I used 8.5 pounds of DWC Munich, 0.5 pounds of DWC Biscuit, 13 quarts of strike water, 8 quarts to get from protein rest to saccharification and then had 5 gallons of sparge water on hand. I stopped after 8 gallons of runnings (leaving about a two gallons of runnings in the laeuter tun) and boiled that down to 5.5 gallons of 1.052 wort. Despite the fact that the final runnings were 1.012 (meaning I did leave quite a bit of extract in the tun), that comes out to 31.8 points/lb/gallon. Had I not been concerned about the additional boiling time to reduce the additional gallon and taken 9 gallons of runnings, I probably would have gotten 33 pts/lb/gal. *** Jim writes (quoting someone paraphrasing Dr. Michael Lewis): ><What many American home brewers don't realize is just how low a ><temperature American pale malt needs for optimum fermentability ><and how high a temperature it needs for optimum extract. > >Key word: optimum. We're homebrewers, not Budweiser. Optimum to me is >defined as acceptable results in a resonable time. My time is more <snip> Yes, but from everything that I've read, and perhaps this could be confirmed/corrected by Dr. Fix and others (I noted a post from Dave at Weihenstephan today), is that at the low end of the amylase rest (i.e. 148F or so), both alpha and beta amylase are active. At the high end (i.e. 158F or so), beta amylase denatures quite quickly and only alpha amylase is active. Therefore, it does not make sense to me that one would have to mash part of the time at the high end of the amylase range to get optimal extract -- it should be available, given proper time, at any temperature in the range. Fermentability is a different issue. What the heck is *optimum* fermentability? Obviously, Dr. Michael Lewis has been spending too much time working with megabreweries... if I'm making a Wee Heavy, I don't want a very fermentable wort -- my *Wee Heavy* optimal fermentability is reached at a amylase rest done at 158F -- very dextrinous, *low* fermentability. As far as I'm concerned, Dr. Lewis's recipe is for making gasahol, not beer. ><1. Stir in enough hot water at around 70^ C. (approximately ><158^ - 160^ F.) to make a thick mash, so the temperature settles ><in between 55^ - 60^ C. (131^ F. - 140^ F.) Initial mash ><temperatures as low as 50^ C. (122^ F.) are acceptable. Hold for ><20 - 30 minutes at this temperature. > >Do these numbers look like reality for any homebrewers? If I dough in >at 160, my mash rests at 145, never below 140. I also question the >advice to mash between 131-140 from a beta rest/maltose rest, as beta >amylase is most active between 140-149F, and survives into the low Depends on the thickness of the mash and the losses to the mash tun -- my 13 quarts of strike water were at 159F and when added to 9 pounds of grain the temperature settled at 136F. You're right, though... the rest at 122F with well modified malt will result in a watery beer with no body or head retention. *** There have been a number of recipe requests for beers like Dixie and Moosehead recently. I'm pretty sure there are not many brewers on the HBD who brew beers like this, so I don't think you'll get as many responses as if you asked for a good IPA recipe. I, personally, don't because these are American/Canadian Light Lagers, and I really had my fill of these types of beers before I discovered all the other 70+ styles. Now, I brew mostly ales and if I brew the occasional lager, it will be something that has more noble origins: Bohemian Pilsners, Traditional Bocks, Doppelbocks, etc., not the corn- or rice-based beers that were our *only* choice ten years ago. I once tasted a very good copy of Budweiser at a club meeting. Basically the recipe was 4# of Alexanders extract, 2# of rice syrup, 3/4 ounce of 5%AA Tettnanger boiled 60 min and fermented with Wyeast #1007 (Pilsen -- actually St. Louis!) yeast at 50F for a couple of months. You can modify this into a Canadian or corn-based American lager by subsituting 1.75# of corn sugar for the rice syrup, change the yeast and maybe increase the hops to 1 to 1.25 ounces. Check out the most recent (or maybe the one previous) issue of Zymurgy -- there is a review of some American Light Lager Kits by Homebrewer of the Year (1992?) Steve Daniel. I've tasted Steve's allgrain American Light Lagers and boy can he brew quality beer! You can certainly trust his opinion of those kits and the quality of what he made from them. *** Dave writes: >Can oxidation due to HSA produce flavors etc that don't show up right >away? If so that could explain what I observed. Yes. If you read Dr. Fix's Principles of Brewing Science, there's a lot more detail on this, but the way that I understand it is that the oxygen gets bound up in (primarily) the melanoidins in the beer and then, after time, is "stolen away" by other compounds which result in "stale" flavours and aromas. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 09:43:40 -0500 From: /DD.ID=MSMHRN01.RADAMS01/G=RICHARD/S=ADAMS/ at EDS.DIAMONDNET.sprint.com Subject: fining question Oh Collective Wisdom: I brewed a batch of Pale Ale (Feb Brew Aley) 1.5 weeks ago and forgot to add my Irish Moss. Damn! Ok, I thought, I'll just have to do my best at racking time (was this the best I could hope for?). Now, I realize that I missed out on separating particular hot break produced during the boil, but I did chill and hop-back. Here is what I did when racking from primary plastic (5 days) to secondary glass (for 3-4 weeks). Per Miller, I added 1 tsp Knox Unflavored Gelatin to .5 cup cold water and allowed to "swell". It does indeed. Slowly heated mixture while stirring until dissolved (not boiled). I poured that warm liquid into bottom of just sanitized empty carboy and then racked onto that. I had a little overfill, so I pulled some off and took a gravity - I have never taken gravities at racking -- it will be in glass for a couple weeks anyway... (s.g. 1.008 already). Airlocked it and set it free. Finally, the question. Have I done something that will adsorb the left-over yeast so much that I may need to repitch with a priming yeast? Or, will there still be enough suspended to finish correctly? Thanks in advance; no hurry, I've got a couple weeks. Rick Adamson BeerDick, Brewer, not a Patriot but rather, a Steelers Fan ! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:36:39 -0700 (MST) From: todd boyce <tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org> Subject: RIMS motor speed control Hi all Hbrewers I'm building my RIMS system and have bought a magnetic drive motor from Grainger, part #1p677a. I'd like to be able to control the speed of the reciculation. This motor is capable of 6 gal. per minute at 6ft. head. My question is can I use a incandesant light dimmer in line from the plug to the motor? (115AC at 60Hz the motor draws 1.4 amps 108Watts). Graingers also sells a AC/DC motor speed controller, but its a bit more expensive than a standard dimmer. I'm not sure of the guts of standard dimmer. Also I don't wan't to build a pulsed gate controlled triac setup. Will a dimmer work and not dammage my motor? Calling any homebrewing electricians. Or experianced RIMS users. Todd B tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 00:00:47 -0500 From: gscott at io.org (Geoff Scott) Subject: Thermometers/Starters/IBU On thermometers: Bob mentioned his photo developing thermometer that works for him but is limited to below 70 degrees C. The one I use is digital and ranges from -50 to +150 degrees C in increments of 0.1 degrees so wider ranges are available. I too would recommend checking out your local photo supply store if you are unhappy with your current thermometer. Keith said: >I called the advise line of my local supply store and explained that >I wasn't sure if my yeast starter was active or not. They instructed >me to take a pinch of sugar (table sugar is fine) and drop it into >the starter bottle. If the yeast are active in sufficient quantities, >they will attack the sugar agressively, almost consuming it all before >it hits the bottom of the bottle. The result will be a column of CO2 >bubbles rising quickly to the surface of the wort. Call me a skeptic, but isn't it more likely that the sugar is providing nucleation points for the CO2 already in solution? Al said: >Many, many unsuspecting homebrewers have bought the book and have >brewed with the formulas that Garetz published and they have brewed >overhopped beer with them. Even experts among us were forced to dump >batches as a result... Is it only me or do others find the idea of dumping a very hoppy batch down the drain a bit odd? At worst I would blend an otherwise good batch with an underhopped one. Probably I'd just suffer but I'm a hop head. regards, Geoff Scott gscott at io.org and check out my brewing page http://www.io.org/~gscott Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 00:43:26 -0500 From: DMFog at aol.com Subject: CANCEL SUB TO HOMEBREW DIGEST PLEASE CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION TO HOMEBREW DIGEST. THANK YOU! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 16:17:47 +1000 (EST) From: Paul Murray <pmurray at cltr.uq.oz.au> Subject: Dropping and Diacetyl No doubt this thread will be done to death by the time this makes it to the digest. Still. Dropping seems to be different to racking to the secondary, as people have pointed out, both in the timing and in the aereating. Jim Busch makes the point that diacetyl levels will be increased by aereating at this point (so soon after high krausen) but that they may then be reduced later. What would be interesting to learn is what, given that British breweries usually proceed in a traditional manner (i.e. the one or two who do "drop" will do so at the same stage they always have), those on the digest with more of a scientific interest in the subject have to say about this. I know George Fix wrote a piece on diacetyl and general sulphur management in bottom workers - does anybody have any thoughts on Ale & diacetyl? German practice as I understand it is to control such things through temperature management, but does anyone know the effects of timing the dropping process and the amount of aereation involved? I presume the yeast strain used would make a big difference. Kirk asks why wheeler thinks racking / dropping removes mutant yeasts. Breweries who don't drop their beer are likely to skim the yeast at some point. No yeast is solely either a top or bottom worker but rather a mixture of the two. Skimming (and presumably dropping) makes a top worker more likely to stay that way over several generations / repitchings. Most British techniques were developed before Pastuer, the microscope, acid washing etc appeared on the scene, so this was their only way of propogating the strain that gave their beer its unique flavour. It helps if rather than think of it as removing mutants, to think of it as a process of positive selection. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 00:44:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net> Subject: Re: Isinglass > Robert writes: > >I wasnt aware that *any* preparation had to be done to isinglass. Ive > >been using the stuff for at least 2 years now, the only preparation I do > >is when making my priming soluition. As for the 20C thing, im not sure > >thats entirely true either. Ive been adding my isinglass with my priming > >solution when boiling it before adding it to the beer. Ive always > >ended up with crystal clear beer. <snip> > > I'm afraid you have been throwing your money away. Boiling isinglass (or > gelatin, for that matter) denatures it and it does nothing for your beer. > I'll bet your beer would have come out perfectly crystal clear without it. I doubt it, my beer usualy looks like swamp water without a fining of some sort. :-) Even irish moss in the boil dosent do the job, which is why I switched back to isinglass after using Irish moss. > When you buy it, it should be refrigerated and rather thick. If it is thin > and watery, then it has already gone bad. Refigerated and thick? The stuff im getting is dehydrated and in a dry package. Maybe the dry stuff is somewhat resialiant to heat. I wasnt even aware that it came in a liquid form. Anyone know where I can get this stuff in a liquid form? And can it be mail ordered safely? - -- Robert W. Mech | All Grain HomeBrewer. President, Fermentors At Large Elk Grove, IL. | Author Of "Frugal Brewers Guide To Brewing Aids" rwmech at ais.net | For More Information: http://www.cl.ais.net/~rwmech Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 07:44:00 CST From: Schwab_Bryan at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Subject: Kegging principles I've have got some questions in regards to kegging principles to those of you out there who are familar with the processes, pros and cons of this. Frist off, I am pretty anual to this, so excuse me if this comes across pretty lame and so fourth. I aquired yesterday an "A.B" pony keg, and can possibly come across a couple more of the larger size kegs in the near future. Questions; How do I remove the rings on the of the ball valve to drain the contents and clean? How much cost am I to expect in uptaining an oxygen system for charging, used or new? Is there any way of doing this in a safe "make shift" system by being "frugal"? Do I need this oxygen system, valves and all for draining as well? If I am a small time brewer, 5-10 gallons per batch, is kegging a positive or negative? If a negative due to batch size, if I were to up the batches, what can I expect my cost increase to be to justify kegging? ( opposed to those mini-kegs) I foresee possibly obtaining a couple full size kegs, cutting them in half, welding them together to use as my brew pot, a couple more to use as a Mash Lauter Tun, and several carboys to act as fermentors..... Am I close on this yet? Any assistance pro or con would be appreciated, Thanks In advance!! Bryan, {SCHWAB_BRYAN at LANMAIL.NCSC.NAVY.MIL}:DDN:NAVY (904)235-5768 Autovon/DDN: 436-5768 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 8:35:31 EST From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> Subject: biscuit/WY1007 Yesterday somebody mentioned using about 15% of biscuit....... After I changed over to all grain, and before I became the master I am now, I didn't realize the difference between all the grains. I brewed an evil ale using biscuit as almost all the grain bill (Also used some chocolate etc.). I went through the whole process and put the mess in my closet to ferment. This thing smelled awful!!!! My better half thought we had a mouse die in the wall, and we spent several days looking for it. Yup, it was this pseudo- beer I had created. But, as a good homebrewer, I relaxed etc etc... and bottled. After a month or so in the bottle, the smell had increased! Sorry, but I can't report on what it tasted like... couldn't get passed that rotting mouse smell! My advice... Don't use biscuit, or if you do.... Do so sparingly! On the other hand... The beer was extremely clear!!! Anybody have experience using WYeast 1007 at cooler temps?? I have a honey brown that is still chugging away after a week, and still has lots of foam on top... The temp is 60 Dg give or take 1. When I open a pack of yeast, I make two starters. I let one ferment completely and cap it. I use this the next time I brew (After making another starter). The honey brown I have going now, I used a yeast I had bottled over 6 months ago... It took about 5 days to get active in the starter... but everything seems to be going well. Kevin North East, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 08:59:20 -0500 From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com Subject: Rogue-n-Berry; wild yeast A few questions to the collective wisdom of the HBD. I recently had a good fruit beer made by the Oregon Brewery in Newport, Oregon. It was called Rogue-n-Berry and was said to be a ale fermented with Marion Berries. Does anyone have any info. on this beer or brewery? Does it have any thing to do with the mayor of Wash. D.C. %^). On a second topic, if we are worried about wild yeast causing gushers from fermenting higher dextrins that normally are not fermented, what prevents dry hopping from introducing wild yeasts that might do just that in the bottle? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 08:37:19 EST From: Joseph_Fleming_at_GSA-2P__2 at ccgate1.gsa.gov Subject: chilling 2 pot boils Recently Thomas Aylesworth (thanks Tom) and Rob Mongeon posted messages regarding boiling in 2 smaller pots instead of one large one. This process is better for me due to a lack of power on my electric rangetop and in my wallet. My question is about chilling the wort and getting still getting a good cold break. What's the best way? 1) Combine the boiled down and non-foaming pots. I fear oxidation too much to do this - is it a grounded concern? 2) Split the faucet and run two wort chillers. Now we're talking about using 40+ gallons of water just for chilling - environmentally speaking even I can't condone this. I'm not in the market for a pump right now (but if I were, could I get one for about $30 and where). As for saving the runoff...please, I wish I could be that dedicated. 3) Daisy chain the two wort chillers with hose. However, the second wort chiller will be using warmer water, so perhaps a third wort chiller could be placed betwix them in a icewater and salt solution...does this sound like too much to anyone else? Its 50'+ of copper anyway. Also what's the prognosis about using salt to increase the chilling effect? 4) Just place the pots in a tub of ice and gently circulate the wort. This sounds like the most reasonable solution, but I'm back to the problem of poor cold break, dimethylsulfide intrusion, ect. It looks to be a matter of picking a tradeoff and dealing with the lesser of the evils. Hopefully the pros can quantify the evils for me - private email is fine and WPR (Will Post Results). Thanks in advance and thanks for the effort everyone has put into making this a fantastic forum. Joe Fleming - JOSEPH.FLEMING at GSA.GOV Return to table of contents
Date: 23 Feb 95 10:59:16 EST From: James Spence/AHA/BJCP <70740.1107 at compuserve.com> Subject: Brew Legal in Mississipp Homebrewing is not currently statutorily recognized in the state of Mississippi. Several homebrewers have been working on changing that fact by introducing a bill into the state legislature. This bill (Senate bill 2097) has passed the Senate, and is now in the House Ways and Means committee under Glen Endrus. Mr. Endrus is from the Gulf Port district. It is believed that Mr. Endrus will let the homebrewing bill die in the committee, unless he hears support for the bill from folks in his district within the next couple of days. It is also believed that if the bill makes it out of committee, that the House will pass the bill, and the Governor will sign it. Glen Endrus's number is (601) 359-3355. If you support this bill, please contact him and let him know of your support. Cheers, James Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 11:17:51 -0500 From: molloy at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com Subject: Holly Bananas Batman! I just "dropracked" my amber ale into the carboy and discovered that my amber is now a banana lambic. My mail came one week late, I read yesterday that the Wyeast 1214 Belgian will produce these flavors, can anyone tell me what to expect from the final result of my creation? 5 lb Light Dry 1 lb 100L Crystal 1 lb 10L Munich 1 lb Honey One more question, I was thinking about pirming with honey does anyone have a converson for 5 gallons? PHIL'S RULES Kzoo Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 11:35:43 EST From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com> Subject: How to Brew a Mild I plan on brewing a Mild soon, I have heard of making a high OG wort and thinning later. When is later? Do I thin to 1.035 in the primary? Secondary or at kegging time? I intend to produce a 1.080 or so OG wort via a long boil, the long boil will increase the carmelized sugars, I also plan on using about 10 -20% mild malt. Is this typically an all malt brew or is maize used as an adjunct? Lee Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 12:08:00 CST From: "Sieja, Edward M" <emsieja at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com> Subject: Belgian Candi Sugar I am interested in obtaining some Belgian Candi Sugar. I cannot find it in any of the homebrew catalogs that I have. Does anyone know of a supplier that carries this and how much it costs? Also, what are the alternatives that would most closely substitute for the real thing? Thanks, Ed Sieja emsieja at ingr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 14:18:59 -0500 From: cerevis at panix.com (Christopher P. Weirup) Subject: Gott digest confessions Okay, I have to make a confession. To all the people who requested the Gott digest that I put together, I really screwed this job up. You probably noticed that the digest was an attachement that was encoded with BinHex. This probably put you in a mild panic and caused you to curse my name and so forth. I must apologize for this. The digest got bigger than I thought and it wouldn't fit onto my e-mail document. Therefore, I just sent it as an attachment as a text document. However, my e-mail program (Eudora) automatically encodes attachments with BinHex, which is a Mac program. People with Macs (either with BinHex or Eudora) I guess had no problems. Everyone else on non-Mac machines was left in the dark. In addition, America Online users (and other online service users) probably just got a bunch of digital gook on their e-mail which is no help. If you have a problem trying to open the digest, please e-mail me and I will send it to you in two e-mailings. If you have requested the digest but have not gotten it, yours will be on your computer shortly. For everyone who still wants the digest, just e-mail me and you will get the digest in these two sections as well. Well, I hope you all find it in your heart to forgive me. Whoo boy, I thinks it's times for a homebrew. Chris Weirup cerevis at panix.com Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Feb 95 09:57:00 -7452 From: Gordon.Mckeever at jpl.nasa.gov Subject: source help - --JPLxxxccMailxxxSMTPxxxID3512gc46x Content-Type: Text/Plain; CharSet=US-ASCII Content-Description: Text_1 Hello Beer People: I am new to the sacred science and hoping someone can give me advice on where I can get a case or two of the 'Fisher D'Alsace(?) type bottles. They are brown, 22 oz, with Grolsch type caps. I am incarcerated (figuratively) in the High Desert in CA, so I assume I'll have to order them from civilization somewhere. If anyone can provide me with addresses and/or phone numbers of Brew Suppliers I would be most appreciative. Thanks, Gordo (no clever tag line yet) - --JPLxxxccMailxxxSMTPxxxID3512gc46x-- Return to table of contents
Date: 23 Feb 1995 15:36:41 -0500 (EST) From: DUBOVIK at hsdwl.utc.com Subject: Re-yeasting lager. I'm sure this question has been asked before, so forgive the redundancy but .... My lager has been fermenting for about 3 weeks at around 50 deg F. (used Wyeast liquid yeast, and extract ingredients if it matters). I would like to let it go a couple more weeks, bottle, then let it "lager" in the bottles in the fridge. When I'm ready to bottle, do I need to add more yeast (and if so, how much, how long before I can bottle after adding the yeast, etc.) or can I just add the 1/2 cup of corn sugar and bottle as usual? Much TIA. Gary (CT.) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 16:47:38 est From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca Subject: Auto-Mash CEO comments: Hi everyone I'm posting the attached question for my brew-buddy Darryl, wh does not have access to the net. Please reply to my address unless you thing the Digest as a whole will benefit from this discussion. Thank you. Matt in Montreal CEO file contents: Hi HBD 'ers Here's a question about saving time: I would like to start my one-step infusion mash automatically while I'm at work, by wetting the grains in cold mash water, then setting the timer on the oven before leaving home in the morning. That way, when I get back, already one hour of mash time would have been completed. Let's assume that oven temp control accuracy is good enough and is well calibrated, and that timing and everything else about the mashing / sparge / boil process is standard. What would be the effect of the grains sitting wet / cold for eight hours or so, before being slowly raised to 155 F for infusion mash ? Does this do damage to any part of the process ? Must I mash-in at the normal striking temps ? I could try this, but would rather not waste a batch if someone out there has already done it. Any help will be appreciated.... Darryl "....welcome aboard the Calypso..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:28:00 GMT From: doug.flagg at chksix.com (Doug Flagg) Subject: Yeast/Fermentation problems I would like to access the collected wisdom of the Digest for some guidance in solving my problem. I have been brewing almost 4 years now (3 years all grain) but I have a recurring problem with my yeast; specifically getting it to start in a strong and healthy manner. All too often my yeast is pitched and ...nothing, or maybe an anemic ferment. My last batch was a case in point. I spent 4 hours doing a double decoction mash (my first double), 2 hours boiling and cooling, and then pitching a healthy load of Wyeast Bohemian Lager yeast. 24 hours later, nothing. No CO2. The air lock liquid level was dead even. 48 hours later some activity (bubbling) but not much head. 72 hours later and there is a head, bubbling activity, and visible yeast deposit at the bottom of the carboy, but the head is not the tight creamy white kind I would expect. It is thin with large different size bubbles. It reminds me of a scum on a swamp. This, unfortunately, is not a new phenomenon for me. A little about my technique: I use canned (Ball jars) wort to step up liquid yeast to pitching levels. I use Wyeast and Yeast Lab liquid yeast. After the bag swells (in the case of Wyeast) or after the yeast and the wort equalize temperature (in the case of Yeast Lab), I shake 1/2 pint of wort to aerate, pour in the yeast, affix an air lock, and put away at room temp to ferment out. The 1/2 pint of fermented (beer?) is pitched into 1 pint of aerated wort and allowed to ferment out. This is further pitched into 1 qt, and maybe more quarts of wort (depending on the time I have before I brew). The last batch ended up with a good 1/4 inch of gray matter on the bottom of a 1 gallon cider jug. This was pitched into my 5 gallon brew. A number of potential problem areas I have thought about and tried to correct: 1. The starter might not have enough oxygen to allow a healthy growth. I addressed this by vigorously shaking each wort addition. 2. The starter might have fermented out and not wanted to start again. A number of times I have pitched an actively bubbling starter. It did not seem to make a difference. 3. There might not be enough oxygen in the wort to be fermented. I drain my boiler into a 6 gallon carboy (after cooling to 58^) allowing it to fan down the side of the carboy. I let the break settle in that carboy and then rack into another carboy, again allowing the stream to fan down the side of the carboy. I have, also, aerated the first carboy with an airstone and airpump for up to 30 minutes. It did not seem to make any difference in fermentation. 4. The yeast might be shocked or killed by a temperature differential. I cool my wort to 58^. I also try to get the starter solution as close to this temp as possible. This last batch was between 52^ - 55^. Since dry yeast is routinely re hydrated at 100^ and pitched into 70^ - 75^ wort, I do not believe *my* temperature differential is excessive. Somehow I still believe my problem is oxygen/temperature related, but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm doing wrong. *ANY* suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Doug Flagg doug.flagg at chksix.com - --- * OLX 1.53 * Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1666, 02/27/95