FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Fermenter Questions (Will Self)
  Re: gelatine ("D.W. Blackie - Television and Imaging DJ - ext 5316")
  Yeast Pitching Rate vs Wort Gravity ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Kettle Sight Glass and Fittings ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  How do I add to sierra archive? (Carlo Fusco)
  Hawaii, Wakiki? (Martin Hatlelid)
  Smoking Grains (Alan Folsom)
  Fuller's ESB clone (Steve Ropp)
  Re: Dropping Beer (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Re: New address for Ulick Stafford (Ulick Stafford)
  Help Mississippi (Karen Barela/AHA President)
  Hallertau Mittelfruh Hops (WILLIAM E STEIMLE)
  Frozen Starters Addendum (" Patrick G. Babcock")
  Brewing in Germany (Sawyer David CDT)
  Hop bitterness in beer (ASB ("Daniel S McConnell")
  Even cheaper Counterpressure filler (repost) ("Roger Deschner  ")
  call for help in ole miss (MR WADE A WALLINGER)
  To All-grain & Kegs,  1995 Guidelines, Hop Storage, Quality Brews, Wasted Space (Gary Bell)
  Texturing of wooden mill rollers (Tom Clifton)
  competition R.C.M.P. (Martin Hatlelid)
  HBD Antabuse?/B-Brite/Wares (BrewBeerd)
  Cream Ale ("KEVIN A. KUTSKILL")
  Wonderful Porter Recipe (John J. Palmer)
  Irish Moss - revisited (Domenick Venezia)
  Siphon tubes (SMKRANZ)
  A good scale (SMKRANZ)
  5 litre minikeg response review!! (richard frederick hand)
  Yeast farming (TPuskar)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 21:52:47 -0700
From: wself at viking.emcmt.edu (Will Self)
Subject: Fermenter Questions

I would like to get some opinions on fermenters.  Nowadays it seems that
a homebrewer has very nice equipment available, except for a fermenter.
Carboys are great, and certainly the price is right, but they have a
couple of drawbacks, which I think would be answered by the use of a
somewhat larger, cylindro-conical (or just plain conical) fermenter.

I would like to have a fermenter, maybe somewhere around 12-15 gallons 
capacity, which would have fairly steep conical sides near the bottom for
stuff to drop down.

I have tried the inverted carboy method using the brewcap, and the fatal
flaw, I think, is that the shoulders are not steep enough and the yeast
will not slide down them to the bottom.  (I even tried pushing a stainless
steel scrubber into the brew and then moving it around with a strong
magnet to remove yeast from the shoulders.)  Also I personally feel that
the brewcap system is a lot of danged trouble.

I would like to have a valve at the bottom of the fermenter and attach
a collection jar below.  Here is my fondest hope:  That I could leave
the valve open at pitching time and that any trub that I have got into
my fermenter would settle into the collecting jar during the lag phase
and could be removed.  So my biggest question is, does this sound
feasible?  Later in the fermentation, one could also remove yeast in this
manner, and I'm quite sure that would work.

I would want the fermenter to have a removeable top, and the top would
have at least two holes in it, one for the fermentation lock and a larger
one that I could use for a cooling system, maybe with stainless steel
tubing running in and out the hole.  If this and possibly another hole
had little necks with standard canning-jar threads, I could simply
close them off with canning lids if they're not being used.  The third
hole would just be for flexibility--unpredicted possibilities.

The removable top would allow for skimming if that would ever be regarded
as necessary.  I would also envision a way of suspending some kind of
metal mesh above the brew for all the gunk that comes up on the yeast head
to stick to.  This could possibly obviate skimming.

Should there be a tap for sampling?  One could of course take samples
through the top using one of the holes and a wine thief, but I would think
you could be more sanitary with a tap.

You can see that one of my big aims is to totally eliminate racking.  I
would want to send the beer straight from the fermenter into soda kegs.

So, given that there's nothing on the market filling my bill (is that in
fact correct?) I ask, where can I get such a fermenter?  Ideally, have it 
fabricated out of stainless steel!  Unfortunately, this is too expensive
for most of us.

As I think of trying to build it myself, one material suggests itself:
fiberglass.  What I would like to hear is the general consensus on
the feasibility of this.  I know brewing in plastics is pretty much
generally accepted, but that is polyethylene, not polyester, which is the
resin part usually used in fiberglass construction.  So there are two
questions, really.  Is it safe?  --and--  What about scratches?

I'm thinking that once every couple of years a person could paint 
thin layer of polyester on the inside of the vessel and renew the 
surface.  That would be if one did indeed get scratches.  It would seem
that with a bit of care that wouldn't happen.

Can a resident chemist comment on the safety question, whether anything
is going to leach out of the plastic into the beer?

One big advantage of fiberglass would be the flexibility of design it
affords.  You could make holes and then patch them back up when you
changed your mind, you could add handles, ledges for the support stand,
etc.

Sorry this is long.  But they're all really one big question in my mind :-)

Comments, deep thoughts and half-baked ideas all welcome!

Will Self

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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 11:40:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: "D.W. Blackie - Television and Imaging DJ - ext 5316"
Subject: Re: gelatine

Charlie

Thanks for for request about gelatine. I've had a few other personal 
e-mails requesting information besides yourself.
I began brewing about 11 or 12 years ago using Dave Lines "Big Book of 
Brewing" as a guide.
I use gelatine from local supermarkets/shops sold for baking purposes.
It comes in a pack of 6 sachets, each weighing about 12grams.
I dissolve 1 sachet in about 0.25 litre of water which has been cooled 
and allowed to cool slightly. _DO NOT_ add gelatine to boiling water.
This is sufficient for a 5 gallon brew.

Hope this helps.

regards

Derek Blackie

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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 08:53:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Yeast Pitching Rate vs Wort Gravity


I've now seen two sources of info which say yeast pitching rates should be 
increased for higher gravity beers.  While at first
read this seemed intuitive, it no longer is after actually thinking
about it.

My reasoning: the driver for pitching rate is to ensure the ratio
(no. of viable yeast cells)/(no. of competitors) is large, and to
reduce the lag time associated with yeast start-up in order to
preempt competitors.  To me, these goals should not be affected much
by the nutritive environment--IOW, for a given ratio of yeast cells to
competitors, the food-richness of the environment does not provide
any different advantage of one population over the other.

>From a pitching-rate viewpoint I really don't care because I pitch
with at *least* twice the amount of yeast I've every seen recommended
as "optimum"--it's essentially a free resource.  But, I would like
to understand the thinking behind the "pitch rate proportional to
wort density" recommendations.  Please show me The Way, yeast wizards.

Kirk R Fleming
 -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil

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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 12:26:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Kettle Sight Glass and Fittings


I feel the need to add a sight glass to my keg-based kettle to more
accurately measure start and finish volumes.  Can anyone suggest a
source for both the sight glass itself and the lower fitting it
would go into?

The design I imagine is a short section of ss pipe welded to the
keg just above the lower chine, followed by a elbow pointing up,
with a Teflon compression fitting into which a 1/2" OD sight
glass would fit.  At the top I'd improvise a support bracket
bolted to the upper chine.  Top of the sight glass would just
remain open.

Any ideas welcomed--I just don't care for the dipstick method of
measuring the wort volume.  Haven't seen any equipment ideas on
this topic in the archives, but I think it would be of general
interest to other HBD readers.

Kirk R Fleming
 -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil
 -BEER: Getting it right can be a bite.

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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:27:08 -0500
From: Carlo Fusco <fusco at io.org>
Subject: How do I add to sierra archive?

Hello Brewers

I have a brewing spread sheet that I feel is ready for the public. It
was made with MS-Excel and I find it very useful in formulating all
grain recipes. How do I go about uploading it to the homebrew archives?
Please reply via email since I do not regularly recieve the HBD.

Cheers
Carlo

- --
Carlo Fusco   Aurora, Ontario, Canada       Certified Beer Judge (BJCP)
              fusco at io.org                  Canadian Amateur Brewers
              ab779 at freenet.toronto.on.ca   Association Board Member

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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:04:53 -0800
From: martunes at unix.infoserve.net (Martin Hatlelid)
Subject: Hawaii, Wakiki?

        A friend of mine is going to Wakiki on Mon, Feb 27th and would like
to know of any brewpubs or interesting places to find a decent beer. Private
email would be appreciated. 


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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:50:15 -0800
From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom)
Subject: Smoking Grains

Does anyone have suggestions on smoking grains for Rauchbier style?

I have a Webber type grill, and some Applewood chips intended for 
smoking (Yes, I know Beechword is traditional, but what the heck).  At 
present I'm intending to soak the applewood chips, and place them on hot 
charcoal briquets, then put about two pounds of soaked pilsner grains on 
a screen as high as I can get it above that, letting it go for I don't 
know how long.  Does this sound reasonable?  Any suggestions on smoking 
times, or improvements in the procedure?  How much of this smoked grain 
should go into a 5 gallon batch?

I'm also considering doing two 2 1/2 -3 gallon batches, one of a 
Rauchbier type and another of a smoked porter.  I've never had either, 
although they sound interesting.  any suggestions or comments would be 
appreciated.

Thanks,  Al F.


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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 15:01:59 -0600
From: sropp at ti.com (Steve Ropp)
Subject: Fuller's ESB clone

Does anyone have a good receipe for a clone of a Fuller's ESB? Preferably an
all grain receipe. Private email is fine.

To brew or not to brew,

Steve Ropp

sropp at ti.com


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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:03:16 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Dropping Beer

In HBD 1664, "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
wrote:
> 
> RE: HBD #1663
> 
> Dropping Beer
> -------------
> > 
> > From: johnj at primenet.com (John J Palmer)
> > Subject: Dropping == Racking?!
> 
> I started this thread with a question to Brian G. re: his processing of
> beer to ensure a clear, cask-conditioned ale.  Brian came back with his
> process, which included racking the beer after 24-36 hours of ferment.
> He called it "dropping", and yes, I agree we'd just call this racking
> the beer after two days.

        I agree that what I physically do is to rack the beer. The term
"dropping" comes from when the technique was used by commercial breweries in
years gone by (it still is by some). The beer was transferred to a clean
fermenter on the floor below the first one - essentially, the beer was "dropped"
by gravity.

> In item 2), I see no connection between flocculation levels and oxygen
> depletion.

        My interpretation is that it is essential that sufficient yeast is
available after dropping to continue normal fermentation but that with
highly flocculant strains, there will be more yeast left behind in the bottom of
the fermenter. In order to re-establish a strong colony, the re-aration will
allow aerobic respiration which is when yeast is at is most reproductive.

> This raises another question: shouldn't this be done prior to the yeast
> going anaerobic?

        I think the idea is that the yeast that is actively working in
suspension is the "master race" and that it is only when this yeast is
in full working order that you want to drop in order to discard the initial
head and whatever has sunk to the bottom of the fermenter.

> Finally, does any of this nonsense have anything to do with a clear beer?

        I believe that it does help the beer clear in that by dropping and
removing a great amount of trub and possibly inferior yeast, the beer will
clear faster. As I've mentioned before, I rack without aeration to another
fermenter 24 hours prior to barreling (when the beer is at or near FG). If
I haven't dropped the beer, it is noticably more cloudy than when I have.
Thats all I can say.

Cheers,
        Brian


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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:07:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at augustine.helios.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: New address for Ulick Stafford

I am moving to Ireland tomorrow.  My new address (snail) is

Dr Ulick Stafford
Ballyhurst
Taghmon
Co Wexford
Ireland

phone: +353-53-34191

I shall be working for Sola Lenses

Sola Lenses
Whitemill Industrial Estate
Wexford
Ireland

phone: +353-53-43700
fax:   +353-53-41671

My main Notre Dame email address ulick.g.stafford.2 at nd.edu and all its 
simpler related cousins (such as ulick.stafford at nd.edu) will continue to
forward to the afs system and afs addresses should be good too (e.g.
the machine I am posting this from).  ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu is NOT a 
good address any more, so please adjust your address book accordingly.  
My web page has also been moved to the 
afs system and the address is in the signature below.  Once I have a 
new email address in Ireland, I shall contact you again.
_____________________________________________________________________________
  'There was a  master come unto the earth, | Ulick Stafford,               
     born in the holy land of Indiana,      | Dept of Chemical Engineering, 
  in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.| Notre Dame, IN 46556          
       http://www.nd.edu:80/~ulick/         |    ulick.stafford at nd.edu   


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Date: 24 Feb 95 18:10:50 EST
From: Karen Barela/AHA President <75250.1350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Help Mississippi

Here's an update for anyone interested in helping to pass a law in Mississippi
that will make homebrewing statutorily recognized.

Contact Bobby Howell who is in the house committee.  He is NOT for this change
of law and he needs to be convinced.  The more people who contact him and let
him know that homebrewing is a great hobby and that it should be legal in
Mississippi the better chance this bill has of passing.  He needs to be
contacted before Tuesday, Feb 28.  Not much time.

Refer to bill # 2097

Bobby Howell
(601) 359-3770
(601) 359-3728 FAX

PO Box 1018
Jackson, MS 39215-1018

400 High St.
Jackson, MS 39201

Charlie Gutberlet (sp?) is an AHA member who has been closely tracking the
progress of this bill and keeping the AHA informed.  He has more details if you
would like to contact him.  (601) 638 2144 or (601) 634 3862.

I'll post more information when it becomes available.

 - Karen


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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 17:15:04 -0800 (PST)
From: WILLIAM E STEIMLE <usteiw00 at beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu>
Subject: Hallertau Mittelfruh Hops

Does anyone know of any other commercial beers besides Boston Beer Co.'s 
that use the Mittelfruh hops.

Private e-mail is fine

usteiw00 at mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu

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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 23:10:14 EST
From: " Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql at ibmmail.com>
Subject: Frozen Starters Addendum                                         

*** Resending note of 02/24/95 23:03
* Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its *
* original dimension.                 - Oliver Wendell Holmes *
Subject: Frozen Starters Addendum

PLEASE NOTE: In my recent response to Chris Strickland regarding use of frozen
starters, I omitted the words 'with water' in the suggestion to boil them to
'sanitize and reduce SG' (paraphrased). I appologize for any confusion this
omission may have caused as boiling without water addition would serve to
increase the SG of his starter.

Brew On!
Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock
usfmchql at ibmmail.com
(313)33-73657 (V)
(313)59-42328 (F)


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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 08:49:50 EST
From: x52074e1 at WESTPOINT-EMH2.USMA.ARMY.MIL (Sawyer David CDT)
Subject: Brewing in Germany

Hello, I'm in the Army and recently choose Germany as my first post.  After 
brewing my first batch over Christmas break, I would like to continue 
homebrewing, but was wondering what the rules are regarding homebrewing in 
Germany.  Is it legal?  Any information on this would be appreciated.

Dave Sawyer

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Date: 25 Feb 1995 10:29:17 -0500
From: "Daniel S McConnell" <Daniel.S.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Hop bitterness in beer (ASB

Subject:  Hop bitterness in beer (ASBC Method)


Here is the ASBC method for spectrophotometric estimation of hop 
bitterness in beer. [ref : ASBC methods of Analysis, 8th Edition, 1992].  
Very simple and effective.  An HPLC method also exists for hop and hop 
extracts which I can post if someone is interested as well as another 
spectrophotometric method for measuring alpha and beta acids.  

 -Transfer 10.0 mL beer to a 50 mL centrifuge tube.
 -add 50 uL octyl alcohol, 20 mL isooctane (HPLC grade) and 1 mL 3M HCl .
 -shake vigorously for 15 minutes.
 -centrifuge to separate the phases.
 -read organic phase at 275 nm (1 cm cell) vs blank (20 mL isooctane, 
50 uL octyl alcohol).

Notes:  isooctane should have an Abs at 275 <0.005 otherwise distill.

BU= Abs  at 275*50
Example: Abs =0.622          0.622*50= 31.1 BU

Have fun

DanMcC/AnnArbor            danmcc at umich.edu







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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 10:05:55 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Even cheaper Counterpressure filler (repost)

I got this off HBD about a year ago, and I use it. It works fine, as
long as you follow rules 1 and 2 carefully; after painting my kitchen
ceiling with beer the first time I tried it, it has worked without
incident after that.

=============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." =====================
Roger Deschner      University of Illinois at Chicago     rogerd at uic.edu

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + REPOSTED from HBD + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
>
>Date:         Mon, 07 Feb 94 21:44:08 CST
>From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
>Subject:      Counterpressure Fillers
>
>I bought a CP filler awhile back and spent bucks trying to get it
>to work without filling bottles with foam.  I gave up.  No matter what
>I tried (high pressure, low pressure, low temp, etc), nothing would
>work.  A brewer friend of mine at Birmingham Brewing Co. told me how
>to make a CP filler for less than $1. Guess what? His idea works great!
>All you need is a length of vinyl tubing and a #2 drilled stopper.
>Put the stopper one bottle length onto the tubing.  Sanitize it and
>your keg faucet (iodophor works great here). Set your keg pressure (this
>takes some experimentation, 15 psi works good for me).  Put the long
>end of the tubing onto your faucet, make sure its on good!  Place the
>opposite end (closest to stopper) into your sanitized bottle and seal
>bottle with the stopper.  You'll need to hold the stopper in the bottle
>TIGHT at this point.  Open the faucet wide open.  The bottle will fill
>slightly with beer until the pressures equalize.  When this happens,
>*SLOWLY* crack the stopper seal with your hand. Release the pressure
>very slowly. Your bottle will fill with hardly a bubble.  Remove the
>tubing from the bottle and let the excess from the tubing drain into (and
>in the bottle.  Cap the bottle while foam is still in the neck (no O2).
>
>Rule 1 :  Dont forget to release the faucet when the bottle is almost ful
>          Otherwise, you will be amazed at how far beer/mead will shoot
>          across a room (or two). Not that I know from experience. :-)
>
>Rule 2 :  Wear eye protection!!!!  Just in case you have a weak bottle
>          or you forget Rule 1.  Beer and mead will sting if it gets in
>          your eyes.  Its hard to rinse your eyes while laughing at your
>          stupidity of forgetting Rule 1.
>
>Rule 3 :  You may need to slightly overcarbonate your beer.  You ARE
>          force carbonating to get exact CO2 volumes, right?
>
>Rule 4 :  Have your caps and capper ready. You don't want to lose too muc
>          CO2 after filling.  Have the next bottle to fill nearby to put
>          the hose into after filling the 1st bottle. That way you don't
>          contaminate your hose by setting it on the counter.
>
>Rule 5 :  Have your beer in the keg cold as possible.  If the beer foams
>          in the tubing, set your pressure higher, although if you releas
>          the pressure and fill slow enough, even though there are bubble
>          forming in the tubing, your bottle will still fill without foam
>
>That's about it.  I've been VERY pleased with this method, although I fee
>stupid about spending all that money on a CP filler instead of $1 worth
>of vinyl hose and a stopper.  You live and you learn. :-)  If you have
>further questions, let me know.
>
>Darren

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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 10:44:56 EST
From: GCTD31A at prodigy.com (MR WADE A WALLINGER)
Subject: call for help in ole miss

we need some help in dixie getting a law passed to legalize 
homebrewing in mississippi. (winemaking is already legal.)
senate bill 2097 passed, and is now in committee in the
house. the bill has been referred from the ways and means
committee (chaired by charlie williams) to the rules
subcommittee (chaired by glen endris). we understand that
the resistance is coming from bobby howell, another
committee member. we have until tuesday to convince them to 
let the bill proceed to the floor for a vote. please help us 
if you can by contacting any of the following:

charlie williams 601-359-3343
glen endris 601-359-3355
ms house switchboard 601-359-3770 (for howell and others)
ms house fax 601-359-3728

tia... 



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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 10:37:23 -0800
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: To All-grain & Kegs,  1995 Guidelines, Hop Storage, Quality Brews, Wasted Space

February was a progressive month for me: I went all-grain and also
went the kegging route. Some brief comments on each:

My all-grain was a 2-gallon barleywine (which kept me from having
to buy a new kettle right away) and it went fairly well. I used a
5-gallon Gott as my lauter-tun. I didn't use a false bottom but
made a manifold of about 12 feet of 3/8" copper tubing bent into a
tight coil that completely filled the bottom of the cooler. I
drilled 3/32" holes in the bottom of the manifold at about 3 to
the inch. I used a 1/2" ball valve with a 1/2" flush brass nipple.
The manifold fits into the 1/2" pipe with a tubing-to-pipe adapter
which is only finger-tightened to it can be removed for cleaning.

The mash and sparge went (mostly) like a dream. No sticking or
clogging - I had to be careful not to open the valve too much and
race through the sparge. I used a gradual decoction (about 2
quarts at a time) for mash out, raising each decoction to about
180 F, because I was afraid of astringency by boiling a portion of
the mash. Was that over-kill?

My only real problem was that I stopped the sparge too soon. I
ended up with 2.5 gallons instead of 3.5 which meant a shorter
boil and a smaller brew. I didn't even bother to calculate my
efficiency after that blunder. Oh well, I'm sure the compost
critters will appreciate the extra sugar [:-D].

I did my kegging set-up for $125: three Cornies for $5 each and,
best of all, a 20 lb. CO2 cylinder at the scrapyard (without
"Property of..." on the side!) for $15. No avoiding the $50 for a
good regulator and $25 for fittings, line, and new O-rings. Five
gallons of stout went in the keg last night and I'm a happy man!

A couple of other notes: Someone mentioned the 1995 style
guidelines. Are they posted anywhere for downloading?

Fred Waltman (or was it Norm Pyle?) brought up hop storage. I put
my hops in zip-lock freezer bags and suck the air out of them
before closing. I put all the backs together in a big "Tupperware"
tub, and freeze them. Does that sound like poor practice?

Rich Whitney asked about quality of homebrew and microbrew. I'd
say that there's more bad homebrew than bad microbrew, but the
best homebrew is better than 95% of microbrew and the best
microbrewed beer is better than 95% of homebrew. I think that most
micros could, even with limited resources, make top-notch beers
and I don't understand why more don't. Probably a lot of reasons;
poor taste, lack of real interest, poor role models while growing
up [;-)]. While the worst of them get what they deserve and
usually go out of business fast, the mediocre seem to do just
fine. If only they'd put half the money and energy into recipe and
technique improvement that they put into T-shirt design.... 

And while I'm ranting and wasting bandwidth: given the size limits
of HBD and the fact that there is almost always a 2-3 day backlog,
I would appreciate it if those who post using double-spacing, post
multiple articles to the same issue, and have cute but epic-length
signature lines would clean up their acts. We could easily fit
another page or two of content in each issue but for the wanton
extravagant beauty of all the ASCII graphic sigs. I'm now getting
into my Nomex and putting on my helmet and goggles...

- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Bell             "Laxo, non excrucio, poto cervisia domestica."
Lake Elsinore, CA  

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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 16:29 EST
From: Tom Clifton <0002419419 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Texturing of wooden mill rollers

>From Patrick Babcock

>In a previous quest to do as you are doing, I was told that the texturing
>of the rollers helps to graw the grain in between. Cross-hatch patterns 
>were most often cited as best. 

I just completed a mill with 4" diameter hard maple rollers.  It turned into
a LOT more work than I had imagined and I can certainly understand why
Patrick bought a commercial mill.  

The tools you have available and your own skill are the limiting factor in
what you do to the face of the rollers.  In my case I was able to route
V grooves 1/16" deep along the axis of the roller.  The grooves were spaced
every 10 degrees which puts them about 1/3" apart.

More important seems to be the speed at which you turn the rollers.  With
untextured rollers turning at 100rpm It was a complete flop.  Slowing the
mill to 50rpm and grooving it seems to be the ticket.

Having said all that (and having done all the work) I would have probably been
a lot less frustrated had I gone to a machine shop and had somebody fabricate
some 2" diameter knurled rollers as Chris Barnhart did for his mill.

The other thing that seems to be absolutely critical is the bearings.  Even
though I bought some very good ball bearings ($7.25 each from Bruning) the
small ammount of slop in the mounting of the bearings allows the rollers
to open up .010 to .015 with a full load of grain.  I expect that I can
correct this by setting the bearings in epoxy - but that means taking the
whole thing apart again.

Considering the low speed I'm using If I did it over I'd probably use bronze
bushings and a 3/4" shaft rather than the ball bearings and a 1/2" shaft.
However, hindsight is 20/20...

Also - I have only run 20lbs of grain through it, but so far the face of the
rollers is holding up.  I don't think that I will grind any carapils or wheat
though.  The pale ale and American 2 row are likely to be what I run through it
as those are home in bulk.  Everything else I grind at the store & keep it in
glass jars until it is used.

Tom Clifton
St. Louis, Mo.




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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 14:18:36 -0800
From: martunes at unix.infoserve.net (Martin Hatlelid)
Subject: competition R.C.M.P.

        Our brew club, the Royal Canadian Malt Patrol, is a having a
competition; Wort You Brewing '95. Entries from the US can be shipped to :
RCMP c/o T. Moffet   1920 Province Rd. Point Roberts, WA 98281.  Entries
from outside the lower mainland can be shipped to: c/o RCMP Suite 320, 5780
Cambie St, Vancouver, B.C. V5Z 3A2. Date for the competition is March 18,
'95. Deadline: March 11,'95. Entry fee: $6.00.  Entry requirements: Three
bottles accompanied by the standard AHA form.  


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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 18:45:16 -0500
From: BrewBeerd at aol.com
Subject: HBD Antabuse?/B-Brite/Wares

 -=> Wha Hoppened?

Thursday I was breathing in a paper bag.
Friday I was on oxygen and in shock.
Saturday I'm back among the living.
Two days without my HBD...   ...guess I'm an addict. Anyone got any 
HBD antabuse? As a relatively new HBD'er (1/25/95), am I going to go through
this 
often?

 -=> My suggestion that B-Brite ($1.99/8 oz) is the same as A&H Super Washing 
      Soda ($1.89/55 oz) has fielded some fire on the basis that B-Brite is
sodium 
      PERcarbonate as opposed to A&H which is sodium carbonate:

I was going to take this as just another case of having fallen prey to some
bad info, but 
Jim Ancona's and Algis Korzonas' comments caused me to take pause and read
some
labels. I found the following:

o The two tubs of B-Brite in my basement list only sodium carbonate and
sodium 
   silicate (a dessicant, I believe?) as components. A&H lists only sodium
carbonate, 
   as pointed out by all those replying.  As an aside, I have used the
washing soda on 
   my bottles several times with other means of sanitation and no occurrence
of 
   infection.
o Meijer brand washing soda (a store-brand) contains sodium carbonate, sodium
   percarbonate, and sodium silicate. All in all a more effective 'soup' than
either of 
   the above. And, at $0.89 for 40 ozs, it changes whose doing the stealing.
(And I 
   wasn't going to use this because sodium percarbonate wasn't listed on the
B-Brite 
   tub...)

I would be interested in a having the professional chemists and biologists
among us 
discuss this. It's been a LONG time since I had my college chemistry courses,
but I 
recall the PER indicates one more oxidation state (additional oxygen
molecule) over 
the carbonate. It makes sense that sodium percarbonate Na2CO4 in aqueous
solution
would react to give off the oxygen as a gas more readily than would sodium
carbonate 
Na2CO3. Both leave HCO3- and OH- in solution.  Strongly basic.  (Hydrogen
peroxide in
H2O decomposes to H2O and [1/2]O2, so H2O2 in solution w/sodium carbonate as
a 
result of using sodium percarbonate is unlikely.)

I'm also curious, since aerobes like oxygen and anaerobes don't care: How
does 
evolving oxygen sanitize?

So, I guess, this leaves three questions: Is a caustic solution from sodium
carbonate
sanitizing? Secondly, is the B-Brite label withholding information, or does
B-Brite only
consist of what is listed on its label (Or do I have some weird limited
edition)?  And, 
thirdly, does the evolving oxygen from H2O2 and other such compounds actually

sanitize, or does it merely scrub? 

These questions and suppositions may seem a little 'basic' to some, but I'm
sure there
are others in the circulation of the HBD besides me who are asking these
questions.

Any professionals trained in the fields care to take this up and set me (us)
straight? 

TIA.

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I'm going to take a whack at building up a flexible brewing recipe
formulator/tabulator/
log program.  In making it flexible, I'd like to be able to allow the user to
select whose
IBU calculation they wish to use for any particular recipe. Regrettably, I
only have the
equations from Papazian and Garetz. If anyone can (and are willing to)
provide Rager's 
and any other IBU curves and calculations via e-mail for inclusion in this
software, it 
would be greatly appreciated. 

TIA.

When this project is completed, I intend to enter it as either shareware,
freeware, or 
(most likely) public domain. And, since the platform I'm using is common to
the Mac, it
may be available for the Mac as well...

(BTW: this will not be a 'quick' thing.  It may take the better part of a
year...)

Brew On!
P.G. Babcock
usfmchql at ibmmail.com (e-mail notes only)
BrewBeerd at aol.com (e-mail and attached files)

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Date: 25 Feb 95 22:20:02 EST
From: "KEVIN A. KUTSKILL" <75233.500 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cream Ale

Anyone out there willing to part with a good recipe for a cream ale?
It a beer style that doesn't seem very popular, but after reading 
the AHA style guidelines for it, I am intrigued.  Extract or all grain
is O.K.  TIA.

Kevin A. Kutskill ("Dr. Rottguts")
Clinton Township, MI

"A beer a day keeps the doctor happy"


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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 21:43:01 -0800
From: johnj at primenet.com (John J. Palmer)
Subject: Wonderful Porter Recipe

Hi Group,
Well, Scott and I tapped my Brown Malt Porter Recipe for the first time
over the weekend, and its very good. Not as heavy a porter as Anchor or
Sierra Nevada, more like Samuel Smiths Taddy Porter. Has a nice discreet
bitterness to it from the Hugh Baird Brown Malt and a rich flavor from
Crystal and Special B.
Great ruby red color from the Special B. It looks like a lot of Hops, but
they balance against this grain bill very well.
Here is the Recipe:

        Brown Malt Porter

Recipe Volume:  11 gal after boil
Yeast:  Nottingham English Ale dry w/Starter
Malts: OG of 1.058
1.      20 lbs of 2 Row
2.      1.5 lbs of Special B
3.      2 lbs of Crystal 70
4.      2.5 lbs of Brown Malt
Hops:   40 IBUs
1.      1.5 oz of Galina (11) at 60
2.      2 oz of EKG (5) at 40
3.      1.5 oz of Willamette (4.3) at 20

I have medium carbonate water, low sulphates. The mash was a little over an
hour, (you know, sampling previous batches and shootin' the breeze), Single
Temp infusion at 155F. Boiled for almost 80 minutes total. Primary'd at 68F
for a week, Secondary'd for 3 wks at closer to 70F. Kegged and Force
Carb'd. The Brown Malt was rather harsh after the boil and at racking time
still, but that time in the secondary really mellowed the edge. I will make
this again.

John J. Palmer
Metallurgist
johnj at primenet.com or palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com
*Check out my new Homepage, The Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
 at http://www.primenet.com/~johnj/



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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 09:47:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Irish Moss - revisited

Last year there was an Irish Moss (IM) thread that seemed to settle the 
fact that you need to use more than some published accounts to get the 
desired effect (1 tsp if memory serves).  The recent talk of dropping 
and the references to Graham Wheeler's "Home Brewing: The CAMRA Guide", 
prompted me to pick up a copy and in it all the recipes call for 5g/25L 
(1/5g per liter = 3.79g/5gal).  G.Fix suggests 1/8g per liter = 2.37g/5gal
of "refined" IM.  The IM I have weighs 2.23g/level tsp which agrees 
quite nicely with Al Korzonas' 2.36g/tsp.  I've been using 2.5g/5gal and
it seems to work quite well for brews in the 1.040 range, but it seems 
not to be enough for brews pushing 1.060.

All this is just by way of observation the real point follows:

Since IM helps the break material agglutinate and the amount of break 
material is proportional to the amount and type of malt (SG), should 
IM be added in proportion to the boil's specific gravity?  For 
example, the amount of break material is greatly different between an 
ordinary English bitter at 1.040 and a strong Scotch Ale at 1.085.  

Does anyone have a rule of thumb they use, or experience that says to
scale the amount of IM by heaviness of brew?  Perhaps, (SG - 1.0)*10 
grams per gallon?  Reality checks are welcome.  In fact any checks are 
welcome.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 14:41:26 -0500
From: SMKRANZ at aol.com
Subject: Siphon tubes

>One thing I've thought of, but haven't seen, is flexible bulb that would >be
somewhere in the tube between the carboy and the bottling >bucket, much like
the siphoning tubes available at automotive >stores.  I hesitate to use an
item designed for gas on my beer, but I >haven't seen one any where else.
 Has anyone seen such a beast, >suitable for transferring beer?  If so,
where?

For a good siphon tube with a bulb, made of the same clear plastic tubing
most folks use, check out your local aquarium store.  The better ones have a
soft rubber bulb that works better and lasts longer than the cheaper plastic
ones I've seen in auto stores.  And they can be easily taken apart, and
sanitized with the rest of your transfer tubing.  It takes a little practice
to get the siphon going without blowing air back into your wort, but it's a
very simple procedure.

Steve Kranz
smkranz at aol.com

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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 14:41:55 -0500
From: SMKRANZ at aol.com
Subject: A good scale

Dan Wood wrote:

>Most of the "diet" scales I've seen have granularity of an ounce
>or less, and their accuracy is questionable.  On the other hand, I'm
>not ready to jump to a triple-beam.  Anyone know of a simple >balance, good
electronic scale, anything in between?  TIA

While I haven't tried one, Williams Brewing Co.'s new catalog sells a counter
balance scale that has calibrations of 1/32, 1/8 and 1/4 of an ounce.  It
sells for $26.90.  Williams' order line is 800-759-6025.

Steve Kranz
smkranz at aol.com

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Date: 	Sun, 26 Feb 1995 22:21:35 -0400
From: richard frederick hand <ac081 at cfn.cs.dal.ca>
Subject: 5 litre minikeg response review!!

Sorry folks for the lengthy delay in getting this out. It was purely a 
matter of lots of will but no time. Anyway...

Thanks to all who responded. Following are excerpts of SOME of the 
replies. All of  them were helpful, and hopefully will help those who are 
interested in this subject. So  without further ado, here goes...

 -... their beer was not fully "attenuated" when they "bottled".
 -...I've heard a number of people say they have gotten too much pressure 
when using 2/3 to 3/4 cup corn sugar per 5 gals...You can get almost one 
and a half party kegs pushed with only one 16 oz. cyl. Before with the 
grey buggers, I'd be lucky to drive one keg with 2 to 3 cylinders. The 
problem with the grey buggers is that they puncture the seal in the cyl. 
before the rim of the cyl. seals against the rubber (maybe plastic) 
washer in the tap. About half or more of the cylinder's contents escape 
before you can get the damn thing driven home. You have to be damn fast 
twisting it home to avoid leaks. In fact it is impossible not to lose 
quite a bit...
 -...I found two problems with mine that were setup problems. One problem 
was that a hex nut that holds the piece that pierces the CO2 cartridge 
was not tightened down enough. CO2 was leaking around the piercing piece. 
After tightening the nut, I have had no problems with that, but being 
all plastic you have to be careful. The other problem had to do with the 
valve itself leaking CO2. When I would turn the valve to the off 
position, a little CO2 would leak through. I basically had to take the 
valve piece apart and readjust it...
 -...my guess is that the priming solution wasn't adequately mixed in the 
beer prior to kegging. With a smaller amount of sugar, mixing become very 
important...keep an eye on them (kegs) and bleed off CO2 by lifting the 
edge of the plug if it appeared they were overcarbonating...
 -...overpriming and overcarbonation is probably the most common problem. 
At the very most, I would prime at the accepted keg rate of 1/2 cup per 5 
gallons. Many of the directions I've seen recommend 1 tablespoon of corn 
sugar per keg...
 -...another element that could affect one keg performance vs. another 
from the same batch is fill height. The more head space you leave above 
the beer, the higher the pressure you will build...they recommend about 
1/2 to 3/4 inch head space...
 -...I found a way to rid it (the keg) of  the excess pressure...I got an 
ordinary knife (silverware) and got under the lip of the bung and 
pressed hard into the center of the bung. If you do it hard enough, a 
small opening will let the excess CO2 escape. When you remove the knife, 
the bung seals back up.
 -...The CO2 dispenser works well. The only trouble I had was when early 
on I wanted to take off the CO2 part, but when I did, pressure leaked out 
from the keg. This might be my fault since I did not lube the 1-way valve 
in the keg as the instructions said I should...
 -...it was mentioned that a customer had to screw it in with a lot of 
muscle. This  is in fact what causes the problem. You need to only screw 
it in gently until the major CO2 blast subsides. If you try to "tighten" 
it further, you will chew up the plastic washer that holds the cartridge 
in place. Once this washer is damaged you will have the CO2 leaks 
mentioned...one half the priming sugar is required, 1/3 to 3/8 corn sugar 
for a 5 gallon batch.The customers who stated that they didn't overprime, 
either miscalculated or didn't understand. I suppose if the CO2 tap was 
left on all the time this could cause some problems. There has been some 
misconception about the use of the tap and that it should be left open 
all the time. If you are conservative with your CO2, just using short 
blasts, one cartridge could last you one to one and a half kegs...
 -...I found that it took about 1 full cartridge and part of another to 
move all the beer. This amounts to two since there doesn't seem to be a 
way to use just part of a cartridge. At two cartridges/keg over the 
course of 3 hours I am not thrilled. This gets pretty expensive!
 -...This is my method for minimal foam (less than a glass)
1. Make sure the keg has chilled for 24 hours or more.
2. The initial tap should use the natural CO2 pressure in the keg.
3. Tilt  the glass as you pour into it.
4. Most important, push the handle down until there is a tiny trickle 
into the glass. What you are doing here, is gently reducing excess CO2 
pressure. The first glass might take  a half minute to pour, but it is 
worth it.
5. The next glass or two may or may not need the trickle beginnings.
You get so you can anticipate when it is safe to open the tap fully...
 -...Use less than normal priming (usual suggestion was about 1/2 
normal...); don't use chlorine to clean (B-Brite was suggested - and a 
note than it is quite difficult to drain the keg after cleaning and "neat 
things" might grow in it if left unused for awhile); make sure the keg is 
chilled before broaching it or risk vast amounts of foam in your glass; 
and only use the CO2 in short bursts when needed...
 -...I find that the 16 gram cartridges leak the least, but all do leak...
 -...The first time I used one (keg system) I found similar problems with 
leakage of pressure. I then smeared vaseline over all seals and joints. I 
still do it up tight, and it has solved the problem. One cylinder now 
does the whole barrel normally...

And that's all, folks (for now),

Rick Hand
Halifax, N.S.                                     



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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 06:55:37 -0500
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: Yeast farming

Here's a question for all of you yeast ranchers out there.  I just started
farming my own yeast and read somewhere (maybe a FAQ, maybe an article) that
one should not try to use dry yeast as a source for farming.  Question is why
not?  I've read that contamination of this form of yeast is higher than that
found in liquids.  Is this the only reason?  Couldn't plates be made from the
yeast as it is pitched or perhaps from conditioned bottles and single
colonies collected and used?

Another question, I have a bottle of Cat Tail Ale which was produced by the
now defunct Dead Cat Alley Brewery of Woodland, CA.  It has been in my fridge
for at least 3 years.  It looks clear and uncontaminated.  I don't know if it
was filtered and can't detect much of a sediment due to scratches on the
bottle.  Does anyone know what yeast may have been used for this beer?  Any
ideas if I might be able to recover it?  Wonder if the beer is drinkable!  I
wasn't into brewing when I got this and it only laziness in cleaning out the
fridge that caused it to still be here :-)

Finally, a collection of geese is a gaggle, a bunch of cattle is a
herd--what's a collection of yeast cultures called?  How 'bout stacosacch or
sacchpak? :-)  Maybe the guys feuding on Judgenet can lighten up a bit and
help us out on this.  After all yeast source may well be important as a
judging criterion some day. All suggestions are welcome.

Happy brewing,
Tom Puskar

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1667, 02/28/95