HOMEBREW Digest #1692 Wed 29 March 1995

Digest #1691 Digest #1693

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Temperature-Controlled Fermenter (Don Put)
  Results from the World Cup of Beer '95 (David Klein)
  Subject: Re: aeration of wort (Carl Etnier)
  Glass lined fermenters? (Jack Thompson)
  Re: Dry Hopping, and Hop Plants (Arthur McGregor 614-0205)
  Free Water Analysis  - my results (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Wheat Beer and Cloudiness/Clarity (John DeCarlo              )
  Aeration of wort:  O2 vs. Air (Dr. David C. Harsh)
  IBUs in Keystone (Dr. David C. Harsh)
  Re: aeration of wort (Steve Zabarnick)
  Northwestern LMEs (dw)
  Watered down taste (Kinney Baughman)
  Wheat? (Marla Korchmar)
  Wheat? (Marla Korchmar)
  Gelatin, Wheat, Honey Brown, etc. (Russell Mast)
  RE: Zima What is it? (braddw)
  Re: Ale vs Lager Yeasts in Bruce and Kays.... ("Thomas Aylesworth")
  Apricots (Pierre Jelenc)
  Guinness in the movies (Gary Bell)
  Brewcap (Jon Petty)
  Bruheat stand/dry hopping (Kinney Baughman)
  Microbrewed Wheat Beers (Jeff Frane)
  Pyramid Apricot Ale (Rob Reed)
  Re:  The Fermentap Review (G. Garnett)
  Rauchbier Round-up (bickham)
  Re: Honey beer. (KBONNEMA)
  unsuscribe (Sergio Valencia Garcia)
  How do you say "Wit" (Jeff Guillet)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 20:29:14 -0800 (PST) From: Don Put <dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu> Subject: Temperature-Controlled Fermenter Thanks to Jeff Renner (previously known as "From *Jeff* Renner) I am now also *previously* known as "From *Don* Put." Thanks again for the prompt, Jeff. The digest seems to run a bit short these days, so I thought an update on the temperature-controlled fermenter I'm working on wouldn't be too intrusive. As some of you may remember, I bought a surplus cooling unit from a place called Surplus Center (see below for info). It was originally designed as a desktop soda dispenser. It's a nice little unit and there's quite a few usable parts on it. For instance, there's a carbonation chamber with a SS relief valve rated 90psi, a small 24 volt mixer assembly complete with transformer (I plan on using this for a wort stirrer during my chill phase-- this idea courtesy of Bob Jones--a small pump (I believe it had something to do with the carbonation chamber or product movement), a nice circuit board and connectors that have to do with temp, pump, and carbonation control (but I have NO idea how to use this without a schematic), and the actual cooling system itself. This consists of a compressor, a small condenser with fan, and a jacketed product tank. The cooling band wraps around the product tank (which is plastic and too small for our needs as a coolant reservoir) and is made out of some very flexible metal that has ribbed evaporator bands molded into it. This cooling jacket measures about 6"-8" wide by about 33" long. It could be easily mounted to another reservoir of just about any shape as long as its mounted right above the compressor assembly. Given the small size of the condenser, I'm not sure how much cooling this unit is capable of, but I'd be willing to bet it could keep the temperature rise associated with fermentation under control with no trouble at all. Here's the way I'm planning to use it right now: I'm going to wrap 50' of 3/8" copper line tightly around my new fermenter spacing each coil about 1/2" apart. I plan on putting the copper tubing through some rollers to flatten it out a bit so that the temperature transfer is a bit better. Before I wrap the fermenter, I'm going to coat the SS with some sealant so that any condensate that forms will not provide an electolyte for reactions between the SS and the copper (thanks to John Palmer for this advice). I will also put a coating of sealant over the copper pipe once the wrapping is complete. All of this will be covered with a SS jacket that will be spaced away from the coils about 1.5". This area will then be filled with spray foam insulation, which should help prevent any condensation buildup. BTW, I recently toured the Blind Pig brewery in Temecula (the brewmaster is Vinnie Cilurzo; a real nice guy) and their primary fermenters had flexible *rubber* cooling bands that had ribs wherein the coolant circulated. Vinnie said they came with the fermenters and didn't know where to get more. Does anyone have a guess where I could find these bands? A new coolant reservoir that will hold glycol coolant for the coil and a more in reserve will be fabricated out of SS to fit my needs both with regard to storage capacity and space (I plan on mounting the glycol unit right under the fermenter to make a neat little package). The flexible cooling band will be wrapped around the coolant storage tank, which will then be surrounded by a SS jacket with insulation blown into the cavity just like on the fermenter. This whole assembly will be connected to the fermenter by using tubing and quick disconnects so that the fermenter can easily be moved outside for cleaning without the cooler assembly attached. A small pump will circulate the coolant through the second stage, as it were. I also kicked around using the conventional SS jacket setup, but decided the coils will work better with less hassle for my purposes. I'll use a remote bulb type thermostat and make a "bulb" well out of some thin-walled SS tubing that will be welded into the side of the fermenter to sense the actual wort/beer temperature. I'll also weld in a thermometer well so that the temperature can be monitored carefully (after all, that's the point, isn't it ;-) The thermostat will trigger the whole unit, i.e., the cooling system and circulation pump. Because the amount of coolant will be relatively small (about 4 gallons) and in a well-insulated container, I don't think I'll need to keep the coolant a constant temperature. Those of you in warmer climates might need to add another thermostat to keep the coolant cold, with the unit "idling," as it were. I hope to have the whole unit complete in about two weeks. Of course, that depends on how fast I can get my welder friend to put all the pieces I cut out together. I believe a keg of Vienna might make him move a bit faster ;-) Here's the info on Surplus Center: 1015 West "O" Street PO Box 82209 Lincoln, NE 68501-2209 (800) 488-3407 (402) 474-4055 fax: (402) 474-5198 The cooling unit is in catalog #267 on page 145. The way it's pictured you can't really see the reservoir above the compressor. Also, there are a LOT of parts that aren't shown in the picture. One caveat: they claim it's new, but mine had obviously been used a bit because there was some dust in the condenser fins. It's VERY CLOSE to new, however, and everything on my unit works. It costs ~47.00 plus shipping. Any feedback on any of the above will be appreciated. don (dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu) PS - Of course, as Bob Jones and I talked about over a few beers a while back, you could always just use a pump, a thermostat, and a coolant reservoir that sits in a sparge frigerator or freezer compartment to circulate coolant through the jacket. But that's too easy, and I don't have any extra refrigerator space at this point! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:07:20 -0800 (PST) From: David Klein <klein at physics.Berkeley.EDU> Subject: Results from the World Cup of Beer '95 The Bay Area Mashers would like to congratulate the winners of the 1995 World Cup of Beer. We had 156 entries, and a great time. Winners will recieve their prizes in the mail, and all score sheets will be returned w/i a week or so. Austria (Vienna and Fest) (9 entries) 1st) John Palmer 2nd) C. Foreman 2nd) George Proper (tie) Belgium (Abbey and Lambic) (14 entries) 1st) Martin Wilde 2nd) Scott Bickham 3rd) Tyler Yarbrough Czech Republic (Boh. Pils) (12 entries) 1st) Norm Dickenson/Chad Thistle 2nd) Elise Griffin/Hoyt Meyer 3rd) Kregg Dickerson England (Bitters) (17 entries) 1st) Helmut Kaiser 2nd) Jim Jeffryes 3rd) Renee Stokowski German Traditional and Helles Bocks (12 entries) 1st) John Cammarota 2nd) Fred Waltman/Steve Labrie 3rd) Matt Wyss/Mark Deran German Dopple Bocks (16 entries) 1st) John Cammarota 2nd) David Sapsis/Peter Licht 3rd) John Cary Ireland (Dry Stout) (16 entries) 1st) Frank McCullough and Norm Dickenson 2nd) Jack Dawson 3rd) Fred Waltman and Steve Labrie Scotland (Scotch Ale and Barleywine (18 entries) 1st) Ray Francisco 2nd) David Sapsis and Peter Licht 3rd) Mick Schwartzbart and Tyler Yarbrough USA Pale Ales (27 entries!) 1st) Ebben Raves and Mark Amonino 2nd) Don Dixon 3rd) Ken Brown 3rd) Paul Klink (tie) USA Cream and Common Ales (14 entries) 1st) John Cammarota 2nd) Ray Francisco 3rd) George Proper Best of Show went to the United States of America for a US Pale Ale (entered by all American Ebben Raves and Mark Amonino) See you all next year!!!! Dave Klein Former organizer of the World Cup of Beer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:35:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier at abc.se> Subject: Subject: Re: aeration of wort Steve Zabarnick says: >No! We need to go back to our first year chemistry textbooks. >Henry's law states that the concentration of a dissolved gas is >proportional to its partial pressure in the vapor phase. Henry's >law holds for dilute solutions; oxygen or air at one atmosphere in >wort or water is definitely a dilute solution. Thus as air is >20.9% oxygen, a wort this is completely aerated (i.e., in >equilibrium) with air will contain 4.8 times less oxygen that one >that is in equilibrium with a 100% oxygen environment. For water >the solubility of oxygen is well known, at 25C (77F) it 40.89 ppm >(w/w), and due to the fact that air is 20.9% oxygen, completely >aerated water will contain 8.55 ppm oxygen. It was this sort of reasoning that led me to make my original post on this subject, where I said that air works as well as O2 to saturate water or an aqueous solution with O2, and we achieve saturation regularly in aquaria and wastewater. Unfortunately, the previous posters had not been as clear in their comments as Steve is, so I did not see where the common ground lay. I see now that we have been using the term "saturation" in different ways. In the limnological contexts I am used to seeing it, saturation of water with O2 clearly refers to it holding as much as it can in real-life situations, i.e. with exposure to atmospheric oxygen. I am at a conference and do not have my tables with me, but 8.55 ppm sounds like exactly the standard figures given and that we have achieved for saturation at 25 C. (Actually, we usually work closer to 20 C and around 10 ppm for saturation.) That "saturation" means, in chemistry circles, the total amount of O2 water can hold under the best possible circumstances, i.e. in equilibrium with pure gaseous oxygen, is of course reasonable. (I knew that once.) I did not think of that use of the word when I wrote my post. I never work in a pure O2 environment and have heard anyone claim to brew in pure O2. But upon further reflection, I suppose this is what users of O2 do--they bubble O2 through their wort in a vessel that is closed enough so a pillow of O2 forms over the water, allowing higher levels of DO. Is this right, you O2 users out there? Since these two uses of "saturation" are both used in different scientific circles, then it is important to specify when one is talking about _chemical_ saturation. It may seem obvious to chemists out there, but it is not to anyone whose advanced studies have been limnological. Another good rule for commucation is to talk about ppm whenever possible. That also makes sense biologically--yeast "feel" the ppm of O2 in the water, not the % saturation. The critical question is, what biological effect on the little critters does one get at different ppm? I look at George Fix's experiments again with new eyes. He bubbled in O2 to test the "saturation limit" of wort at different temperatures and SGs. I assume he means chemical saturation here, then. If so, wort holds _dramatically_ less O2 than water. He found, for example, that the limit was 5.6 ppm DO at 20C and 1.060. Since 20C water in _air_ can hold around 10 ppm, that means that it can hold close to 50 ppm O2 in an O2 environment. (Are you near your tables, Steve?) The saturation limit for 1.060 wort at 20C is, then, little more than 10% of what it is for water. Wow! I will drop a line to Fix to see whether this interpretation is correct. And it sounds like it is time to take the O2 electrode from the aquaculture to the brewing cabin, to check out DO levels in my splash-aerated wort. Carl Etnier Trosa, Sweden Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 02:38:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jack Thompson <jct at reed.edu> Subject: Glass lined fermenters? While visiting a friend in Idaho last week the subject of pico breweries came up. He's put most of the parts together (including a commercial zoned building), but doesn't want to buy 50-100 gallon stainless fermenters. We talked and sampled some of his test batches. In the fullness of time (and bladder) I wandered back to the bathroom and noticed the glass lined hot water heater next to the toilet. I don't recall this particular solution coming up before, but it seems to me (on the face of it) to be a reasonable solution to his problem. Given that there may be some difficulty in removing the top (for cleaning), are there other good reasons that this would not be a good thing to do? TIA for any advice/guidance. Jack C. Thompson Thompson Conservation Lab Portland, OR jct at Reed.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 07:28:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Arthur McGregor 614-0205 <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> Subject: Re: Dry Hopping, and Hop Plants Hi All, Just a comment on dry hopping. I use a nylon hop bag that has a draw string sewn into the top of the bag. I use pellets, and the bag keeps most of the hops out of the final beer, but not the hop nose :). At first it was a real pain to fish the hop filled bag out of the carboy before transferring to the bottling bucket. I tied a length of dental floss (unflavored, unwaxed) to the end of the draw string, and now have no problem pulling the bag of hops out. I just tie the hop bag closed, and push it into the carboy, where the bag floats at the top of the beer, and leave part of the dental floss hanging out of the neck. The fermentation lock and stopper easily seal the opening from the outside. My hop plants seem to have made it through the winter, and have seen small shoots poking through the mulch. This year I plan to spray with Liquid Sevin to keep the Japanese Beetles off. They really tore them up last year. Liquid Sevin seems to be safe for a large number of fruits and vegetables, so I believe it should be safe for hops. Does anyone know if there is an insecticide made specifically for hops? Good brewing, Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Northern Virginia, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 07:52:15 EST From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot) Subject: Free Water Analysis - my results Well, A few weeks ago I wrote about free water analysis offered by Sears. I sent in a sample of my water and received the analysis in the mail yesterday. It is by no means extensive but it is free. Here's what I got: Hardness measured in gpg as CaCO3 Iron measured in PPM as Iron PH Dissolved Solids measured in GPG as CaCO3 Stability Index (gpg = Grain per Gallon = 17.1 PPM) And, of course, along with the analysis is a recommended Sears water filter that I should install. So, what I found out is: 1. I have soft water 2. My Water PH is 7.5 Now a Question: When I mash in with this water, will the Mash PH be 7.5 or will the combination (grist and water) have lower PH? Anyone know how I might calculate this? Cheers ChuckM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 08:45:21 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: Wheat Beer and Cloudiness/Clarity Well, I made a Wit beer, but apparently overdid the protein rest or something. This is 45% raw wheat, 45% pils malt, and 10% oats. I poured some at a friend's house into a tall, thin pilsener glass. Man, this beer was crystal clear and lighter than straw. And I didn't want a clear beer. Anyway, I used no finings or anything--all I can figure is that I must have spent too much time at the lower, protein rest temps (122-128F). So, you who want really clear beer may want to try this yourself. I was supposed to spend 10 minutes at 122, 124, and 126 by my recipe. I must have spent much longer, though, probably heating too slowly to leave the range or something. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:12:13 -0500 From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (Dr. David C. Harsh) Subject: Aeration of wort: O2 vs. Air Here's my $0.02. Sorry for the bandwidth. >In HBD #1690 Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier at abc.se> says: >>In any case, it doesn't really affect my main point, that saturation >>can be achieved in water (or an aqueous solution) with bubbled air. >>Pure 02 is not required. And in #1691, Steve Zabarnick (steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil) says: > {partial text deleted in the following} >Henry's law states that the concentration of a dissolved gas is proportional >to >its partial pressure in the vapor phase. Thus as air is 20.9% oxygen, a >wort >this is completely aerated (i.e., in equilibrium) with air will contain >4.8 >times less oxygen that one that is in equilibrium with a 100% oxygen >>environment. Sorry, but this is a mis-interpretation of Henry's law. Henry's law is for the equilbrium relationship of a non-critical gas, but the critical temperature for oxygen is 154.6 K (about -180 F), so you can't really use Henry's law as defined (the limit of the ratio of liquid phase fugacity to mole fraction as mole fraction goes to zero) for this case. (This sort of problem is a classic "trick question" from graduate Chem Eng Thermo courses - and no, I didn't get it right when I took the course). Also, the concept of "dilute" refers to mole fraction in the solution (pure oxygen is not dilute under any pressure or temperature) - mole fraction of oxygen in air is 20.9% and the dilute region for equilibrium calculations is rarely considered to be above 5-10%. Of more importance is that there is no reason that air can't be used to reach saturation if the gas is sufficiently soluble - this level of saturation (40.89 ppm) doesn't care how you get there. The data I've seen posted on r.c.b. and in the digest tend to support that you don't need pure oxygen. It would take longer using air because the concentration difference (the driving force for oxygen transfer into the liquid) is less, but the same equilibrium could be reached. It is reasonable to expect a decreased solubility in a wort relative to water and I think I recall George Fix posting some data to support this (am I correct?). I can't wait to assign this to my Chemical Engineering Thermodynamics students next quarter! Dave ****************************************************************** * Dr. David C. Harsh University of Cincinnati * * Department of Chemical Engineering Cincinnati, OH 45221-0171 * * * * "I'm sick and tired of people who want something for nothing. * * But enough about undergraduates..." * ****************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:19:30 -0500 From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (Dr. David C. Harsh) Subject: IBUs in Keystone Just curious - I saw an ad for Keystone claiming to be the "least bitter beer" made. I noticed in the fine print that this was "based on bittering units". Does anybody know what IBU level Keystone has? Is it actually greater than zero? Can it really have lezz than Zima? I'm not losing any sleep over this, but was wondering. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:23:05 -0500 From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick) Subject: Re: aeration of wort Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier at abc.se> posted: >I look at George Fix's experiments again with new eyes. He bubbled >in O2 to test the "saturation limit" of wort at different >temperatures and SGs. I assume he means chemical saturation here, >then. If so, wort holds _dramatically_ less O2 than water. He >found, for example, that the limit was 5.6 ppm DO at 20C and >1.060. Since 20C water in _air_ can hold around 10 ppm, that means >that it can hold close to 50 ppm O2 in an O2 environment. (Are you >near your tables, Steve?) The saturation limit for 1.060 wort at >20C is, then, little more than 10% of what it is for water. Wow! The dissolved oxygen level of water saturated with 100% oxygen at 20C is 44.6 ppm. For air saturation at 20C this would correspond to 9.3 ppm oxygen in solution. Indeed, if George Fix's experiments are for 100% oxygen, the solubility reduction due to wort sugars is quite large. Unfortunately, I haven't found any literature values (yet) for oxygen solubility in water/sugar mixtures. Steve Zabarnick steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil Dayton, OH, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 09:25:41 EST From: dw at arinc.com Subject: Northwestern LMEs Gathered Brewers, My first post...I'm so proud! Here's my situation: My last two batches (an ESB and Barleywine) I made using Northwestern LME. The ESB, with 6# NW'n LME and 1# NW'n DME; the Barleywine with 12# NW'n LME and 1# honey. Per SUDS 3.1, the ESBs OG should have been 1.054 and the Barleywines should have been 1.098, both, I feel, reasonable values. Upon brewing the ESB, the OG I measured was appx. 1.035. Figuring that I just measured wrong, I brewed the Barleywine and the OG measured at appx. 1.055! I don't think so!! My question: does anyone have any experience with Northwestern LMEs yielding low OGs. I mean, I know how to use the hydrometer, checked the temperature, no bubbles, etc. The ESB is kegged and should be ready in about a week at which time I will conduct an alcohol content measurement of a more personal nature! I'm just kinda perplexed...any insight, e-mail or posted, will be appreciated. And please, don't say "go all-grain" 'cause, well, I'm afraid! So much more equipment and 'tuns' of new terms!! Seriously tho, I've been eyeing up those Gotts (don't tell the wife). Dave Wright dw at arinc.com Annapolis, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:21:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu> Subject: Watered down taste Eric wonders how to cure the watered down taste to his beers. You're using an all-extract recipe, Eric. You should *always* steep some kind of grain in the brewing water as it comes to a boil when using extracts. There are 10 lovibond crystal malts on the market to use for the lighter colored beers, darker lovibond crystals for amber and dark beers. Adding these grains will impart a much needed grain character and mouth feel to extract based beers. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu | I'm late for work. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:30:36 -0500 From: Marla Korchmar <marlak at pipeline.com> Subject: Wheat? Is cracked wheat the same as bulgar? If so, it's very cheap in health food stores. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:30:46 -0500 From: Marla Korchmar <marlak at pipeline.com> Subject: Wheat? Is cracked wheat the same as bulgar? If so, it's very cheap in health food stores. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 09:43:01 CST From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Gelatin, Wheat, Honey Brown, etc. > BTW, I am starting a batch of wheat beer (40% raw wheat) and it will be > interesting to see how the gelatine works on this stuff. I get the feeling > that people expect wheat beer to be cloudy and I would be interested in > hearing what experience folks have with gelatin in wheat beer. I recently brewed an attempt at a Bavarian style wheat beer, with 100% malted wheat, a long protein rest, and gelatin. The stuff was "krystal" clear. It was absolutely delicious and the lack of haze didn't bother me at all. (I brewed a pilsener around the same time which was much hazier.) Anyway, the stuff was so good it was all I could do to save 2 bottles for a competetion, which I found out wanted three. I thought about calling around to see if any of my friends had a bottle left (I'm a sharing guy) and then I just drank one. No regrets here. (The stuff was too light in body to win anyway.) What was I saying? Oh, yeah, go ahead and put some in. I think 40% raw wheat might not clear all the way, but I'd like to hear what happens. > I tried Honey Brown on draft for the first time at T.G.I. Fridays. I > don't think its an outstanding beer by any means, but I agree with Jim > that it has an incredible honey character. I've had in bottles on three different occasions. All three times I didn't notice much of any honey character, thought it was a bit cloying, and more than a bit stale. This could be related more to the retailers than the producers. > The *LAST* thing I want to do is drag up the coriander thread, but I am > curious as to how it started. I read a few tongue-in-cheek posts in the > HBD, but I think they referenced other sources that I must have missed. > Can someone send me private mail on how all this got started? Just the > facts, Mam :-) I missed the coriander thread entirely. Please send me some faxts, too. For one beer, I recently cilantro instead of coriander. Oddly enough, after a couple months, it tasted just like coriander. I thought that was cool. I didn't notice any magical effects, though. > Finally, my question: > when scaling up a recipe to hit the called for OG, should all the grains be > increased by the same factor? Probably. However, 1 lb of most specialty grains imparts a very similar flavor as 1.25 lbs of the same grain. Homebrewing is inexact enough that you're likely to get more variations in flavor due to other factors, and you should concentrate more on upping your extraction than high precision on your grain bill. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Tue Mar 28 10:50:06 1995 From: braddw at banjo.rounder.com Subject: RE: Zima What is it? Bad. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 10:52:45 -0500 From: "Thomas Aylesworth" <t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com> Subject: Re: Ale vs Lager Yeasts in Bruce and Kays.... I tried to send this to Jeff by private e-mail, but it bounced. Anyway, it may be useful to some other "fairly new" brewers, as Jeff describes himself. This is in reference to whether he should use an ale or lager yeast in his honey ale: > So my situation. The instructions are kind of vague from there, and I need > to know what to do. How long to ferment initially, at what temp, does it > need secondary fermenter, how long there? > And of course the original question, Ale vs. Lager. I can put it an a > fridge I have handy I think, but I have no idea how to regulate the temp. > Anyway, I know this is alot, but any help would be appreciated. I would highly recommend that beginning brewers stick to ale yeasts, especially if they are using dried yeasts. I've never used dried lager yeasts myself, but I've heard many complaints about off-flavors from them. YMMV. However, whether you can find a good dry lager yeast or not, an ale yeast will be more forgiving as far as temperature and off-flavors go. Also, the ale yeast will ferment out faster, meaning you can drink your beer sooner! So, if you take my advice and use the ale yeast, then the other answers are easy. I would ferment an ale between 60 and 70F. I use my basement, which stays right around 60F year round, but in the past I've used apartment kitchens or whatever was available where I was living with no big problems. The higher the temperature, the more "ale" flavors (like esters and fusel alcohols) will develop, however, a decent dry ale yeast should go up to 70F without giving you many undesirable flavors. As for how long to ferment, I use Dave Miller's rule that fermentation is almost complete when the bubbling through the air lock is down to one per minute. Depending on the yeast you use and the temperature at which it is fermented (higher temperature will ferment faster), it will take anywhere from 3 days to 2 weeks to get down to this level (with dry yeast packets at 65F, it will be closer to 3 days). At that point, you can, if you want, use a secondary, but it isn't necessary. I've decided that for most ales, there is little advantage to using a secondary, unless you are dry hopping (which your recipe doesn't call for). If you use a secondary, leave it in there for a week or so. If you don't, leave it in the primary for another 2-3 days after the air lock is down to 1 bubble per minute. Summary (for easy and good tasting): yeast: ale (Edme is a good dry ale yeast) temp: 55-70F (60-65 ideal) time: wait until bubble down to 1 per minute, then wait 3 more days (total time will probably be around 6-8 days) secondary: no - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Aylesworth | t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com Space Processor Software Engineering | Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA | (703) 367-6171 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 10:52:25 EST From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Apricots In HBD #1691, Bruce DeBolt asks about apricots in beer: >For the fruit I was planning on rehydrating non-sulfured dried apricots, >mixing in a blender, pasteurizing the mess, then adding directly to the >secondary fermenter. [ ... ] My question is how much dried apricot to use >for 2.5 gallons? I did essentially that (mine were sulfured; I washed them extensively but still got a lot of sulfurous smells coming out). I used 2 lbs (dry weight) for 2.5 gallons, and had a pretty orange ale with *no* apricot aroma or flavor whatsoever. I have no idea where it went. The residual pulp was thoroughly tasteless, so either the apricot aromatics are very unstable, or they got scrubbed away by the CO2. Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 07:51:13 -0800 From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell) Subject: Guinness in the movies I think it's worth the small waste of BW to respond to Jeff (not Nancy) Renner's review of "The Snapper" which contains abundant quaffing of Irish Stout. I myself have recently had a couple of opportunities to watch movies in which Guinness is (supposedly) supped. In "The Secret of Roan Inish", a wonderful Irish production, some fine, velvety pints of Guinness are tipped early in the movie. On the other hand, in "Blown Away", one of the most (black?) patently stupid movies I have ever seen, two characters toast each other with "Mother's Milk" in a Boston bar. The liquid in their glasses has zero head, less body, and is clearly either coffee, tea or Boston Harbour water. Maybe there is some strange law about showing actual alcoholic beverages in American movies, but at least they could have put some whipped cream on the glasses of coffee. :-D Enough ranting. It's time for a beer. G. - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary Bell "Laxo, non excrucio, poto cervisia domestica." Lake Elsinore, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 11:06:45 EST From: Jon Petty <jpetty at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Brewcap I am signing off of the HBD but want to thank the readership and online experts (too numerous to mention) for taking me from worst brewer in the world to best brewer in the world (IMHO). I am taking early retirement from .mil thanks to Bill C. so will have much time to devote to growing hops and brewing beer. I know it's a tough life but someone has to do it. I hope to be able to monitor the HBD through r.c.b. (thanks Dion for posting). Since the Brewcap and Fermentap have come up in discussion recently, I'll add my .02 cents worth. I am a long time user of the Brewcap because for me it's cleaner and easier - no racking/ yeast collection/ minimal chance for infection. For a stand I use an old bar stool with a hole in it. A bearing is not needed, it takes little effort to rotate the carboy per directions. Some yeasts are more accomodating than others for this setup. I like Wyeast 1968 because it won't blow off even with little headspace in the carboy, it drops like a rock when it's done and doesn't stick to the glass, plus it's a quick starter and I like the flavor profile. Here's a tip: When fermentation is near complete, attach a HEAVY grade balloon to your blowoff hose. Collect enough CO2 for bottling or racking. Government Warning: Homebrew may cause enlarged Libido. jpet at candlelight.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:17:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu> Subject: Bruheat stand/dry hopping Dan sez re: the BrewCap: >Though it seems the big drawbacks might be the >inability to use those convenient hop pellets in either the boil or in >dry-hopping, I still think the minimal exposure of wort to air makes this >practice one best suited for me. I'll let Eric handle the stand idea of his. Quickly, though, the easiest to make stand for the BrewCap is made by cutting a 3" hole in the bottom of two buckets or milk crates, then packing/duct taping the two buckets/milk crates bottom to bottom and inserting the BrewCapped carboy upside down in the top bucket. The whole rig goes on a counter. (Actually, the buckets are placed on top of the upright carboy before tipping over and upside-down.) And I agree that the biggest drawback to inverted brewing is the inability to dry-hop. But the solution lies in the use of a hop back. I'm happy with the results of the hop back so far as imparting hop aroma to my beers. For more information on how to make one for the homebrewery, see the article I wrote several years ago in the Special Gadget issue of Zymurgy. Is a hop back better than dry hopping? That always starts a religious war!! But I'll add this data point to the debate. We've recently discovered at Tumbleweed that yeast strain can make as significant an impact on hop character as the way one handles hops. I don't know why I've been so late discovering this but we've been playing with various combinations of yeast/hopback/dry-hopped beers lately and, for the moment, I'm impressed more with the difference the yeast makes than anything else. Let me clarify that. I'm saying that given that one either dry hops or uses a hop back, the yeast strain has a significant impact on the flavor profile. I'm not saying it can make up for *not* using either dry hops or a hop back. Back to work. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu | I'm late for work. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 08:39:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com> Subject: Microbrewed Wheat Beers Tom Lombardo wrote: > > > I was in Milwaukee yesterday, and had lunch at the Water Street Brewery. > The food was good, but the Weiss Beer I ordered tasted "yeasty". I don't > mean a little yeasty... the predominant flavor was yeast! When he > brought it to the table, the aroma of yeast was obvious (even to my wife > who only has an occasional homebrew). It was not very clear either. > > I decided to try a "professional" wheat beer to see if I liked it enough to > try a batch. My question: is that what wheat beer is supposed to taste > like, or did I happen to go there on a "bad brew day"? > I had the Water Street wheat beer a few years ago, and suggest that if you want a "real" wheat beer you make an effort to find a Bavarian version. You ought to be able to find bottled versions of Paulaner, Spaten, or Ayinger weizenbier (probably a number of others, as well) in your area, and perhaps even on draught. If memory serves, the Water Street pub is using a true weizenbier yeast strain but their brewing technique isn't what's necessary to make a true wheat beer. As for what you experienced, there are a couple of possibilities: first of all, a true wheat beer yeast strain is quite different from what you're accustomed to, and it takes some getting used to. The yeast, in conjunction with the wheat, creates a lot of unusual flavors (vanilla, clove, banana, etc.). Frankly, I find a well-made weizenbier completely addictive although the first sip is still a little jolt. Secondly, Americans who've discovered wheat beers think that they should be opaque and brewers tend to respond to that by overdoing the volume of yeast in the beer. Here in Portland, Widmer's "hefeweizen" is extremely popular and consumers like the yeast so much that the brewery had to change the physical brewing plant so that yeast that had already flocculated out was sucked back into suspension during kegging. The beer is a sea of autolysing yeast but, hey, who am I to argue with the 2nd most poured beer in Oregon (after Bud!). I just don't drink it. For a real fund of information about wheat beers, pick up Eric Warner's book, from the Association of Brewers. And drink some of the good stuff first. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:34:46 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: Pyramid Apricot Ale With regard to the thread on Pyramid Apricot Ale: > ****** from Bruce DeBolt ******** > > On 3-26-95 Michael Lloyd asks for ideas on apricot beer, trying to > duplicate Pyramid's version using extracts. > > I don't have an answer but am thinking about making an apricot beer later > this year using this rough recipe: 6 lb 2-row, 1-2 lb malted wheat, > 0.5-1 lb Carapils, 0.5-0.7 oz. medium alpha hop. For the fruit I was > planning on rehydrating non-sulfured dried apricots, mixing in a blender, > pasteurizing the mess, then adding directly to the secondary fermenter. I > also plan to do the same thing using frozen cranberries and split the > batches with Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) and 1333 (Alt) yeast. My question > is how much dried apricot to use for 2.5 gallons? > > I haven't been satisfied with the flavor of the fruit extracts. > I've tried peach, pear, and cranberry. The cranberry was the most passable > but the rest didn't taste quite right. I'd be curios about the apricot. > I wanted to add my impressions on the Pyramid Apricot Ale. When I tasted this beer recently, both in bottle and draught form, there was a very recognizable, if not dominant DMS character in the beer. I'd suggest using Klages or Lager malt, as opposed to Pale Ale for the base malt to clone this beer. Cheers, Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 11:43:32 -0500 From: ggarnett at qrc.com (G. Garnett) Subject: Re: The Fermentap Review Mark Prazer asks: >My last problem with using the Fermentap is temperature control. Here >in California, I use a water bath to keep the carboy cool at least >6 months of the year. I could put the whole inverted caroby w/ stand >in a water bath still, but lifting out every other day to drain trubage >and yeast would become a pain. Not to mention disturbing the sediment. I thought this might be generally useful, so I'm sending it to the list: Mark, Drape a towel over the top of your carboy, and far enough down the sides to cover most of your beer. Put a pail of water on top of that, and use strips of cloth (rags, old washcloths, whatever) to wick the water out of the bucket and onto the towel. With the fermentap and stand, this should be particularly practical, because the upside-down bottom of the carboy on the Fermentap stand sounds nearly ideal for this sort of rig. Adjust the number or size of the wicks in the bucket to match the evaporation rate from the towel, and keep water in the bucket. In the dry area out there, the evaporation should drop the temperature of the towel (and therefore the carboy and its contents) noticeably. If that doesn't give you enough of a cool-down, aim an electric fan at the whole thing - together the wet towel and the fan should give you about 10 degrees F of cooling. Guy Garnett - ggarnett at qrc.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hakuna Matata and Have a Homebrew! Standard disclaimers apply Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:23:31 -0500 (EST) From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu Subject: Rauchbier Round-up This is a message to the brewers on the HBD and those who read the Judge Digest. I have received some queries regarding the Rauchbier Round-up, an AHA Club-Only competition that is scheduled for the end of May. This competition will definitely take place, regardless of the status of the Beer Judge Certification Program on the date. All entries will be judged by people who are at least certified or have scored above 70% on the BJCP exam. There's still time to brew your favorite smoked porter or peted scotch ale, so get busy! Cheers, Scott Bickham Ithaca Brewers Union (pronounced eee-boo) - -- ======================================================================== Scott Bickham bickham at msc.cornell.edu ========================================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:41:17 -0500 From: KBONNEMA at aol.com Subject: Re: Honey beer. Jim Graham asked about getting a true honey flavor in his brews. Here's my $.02. I recently brewed a honey wheat lager (all grain, 1.5# of honey.) At kegging time, I could barely taste any honey flavor, so decided to prime with honey. I added 3/4 # for the 5 gal batch. WOW, after 3 weeks it has a wonderful honey flavor! I suspect that most of the yeast gave up the ghost during the secondary ferment and did not fully ferment away in the keg. It was a bit undercarbonated, but I fixed that by a little artificial carbonation. Kurt Bonnema Portland OR Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 10:53:33 -0700 (MST) From: Sergio Valencia Garcia <al528298 at campus.her.itesm.mx> Subject: unsuscribe unsuscribe SERGIO VALENCIA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:37:00 GMT From: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet) Subject: How do you say "Wit" Sorry to waste the bandwidth, but enquiring minds want to know: How do you pronounce Wit? White? Wit (as in witty)? Thanks! -=Jeff=- Internet: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com * CMPQwk 1.42-21 * Reg #1757 * Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1692, 03/29/95