FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Brewing Techniques Article on HBD (brewing chemist Mitch)
  Honey I Primed The Beer (molloy)
  Leaching Lead from Crystal (jwolf)
  Valley mill/Wooden casks/Yeast culturing (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  Software for Homebrewers ("Fisette Richard")
  Aeration vs Oxygentation (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  RE: Venturi VS Bernoulli ("Keith Royster")
  RE: Venturi VS Bernoulli #2 ("Keith Royster")
  stuck at 1020/raw wheat/grassy hops/blackmalt & polyphenols (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  boiling water sparge/cloudy wheat beers/uncovered pots/D-C Pale Malt (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  1st Round - Chicago - Update (Dennis Davison)
  carboy stand (Eric Peters (919) 405-3675)
  Pyramid Apricot Ale clone (again) (mlloyd)
  RootBeer - How do they do it? (WIRESULTS)
  Re: DeWolf-Cosyns Malts (PILS and Pale Ale) (Matt Henry)
  SABCO keg experience? / Pauls Malt? / Wyeast 1968 report (Rich Lenihan)
  How to pronounce Wit (Andy Price)
  Another bottle of Evan's ale (t.olsen)
  Center for Brewing Studies address (Lenny Garfinkel)
  Brew Pubs in New Orleans (Rick Anderson)
  Re: Rauchbier Roundup (Timothy J. Dalton)
  Re: Aeration of wort:  O2 vs. Air (Steve Zabarnick)
  Hoptech Shipping Problems (Jay_Richards)
  yeast questions (BarryM)
  Stuck CO2 regulator (Brian Pickerill)
  Band Width .02 $ (molloy)
  Atlas Mill Modifications (Curt Woodson)
  Diacetyl ("James Giacalone")
  Lager Yeast Lag Time (DBURKE)
  straws / fermentap "replica" (BarryM)
  Brewers of South Suburbia Competition Results (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:49:11 -0600 (CST)
From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: Brewing Techniques Article on HBD


I just received the current issue of Brewing Techniques. There was a good
article written by Norm Pyle on the Homebrew Digest, which I was able to
show my wife and say 'here, this is what the HBD was and is about.'

A point made by Norm was that although thousands read the HBD, in a recent
survey it was discovered that virtually all the posts are made by approx.
100 people. I would have liked to see the list of the top 10 contributors.
I've got five bucks on Al K. being at the top of that list ;->

Speaking of BT, in HBD 1691, Jeff Wolf asks about Zima, and what it is. In
the last issue of BT (Jan/Feb ?) someome (sorry do not remember who, and do
not have the mag here in my office) did a bit of research and a nice write-up
on the 'Zima process'. It was very interesting, although the comical 
replacement of all occurrances of the letter 's' with the letter 'z' gave
me a headache halfway through the article. And it was not even that long 
of an article !

Later,

Mitch

- -- 
 -- Mitch Gelly -- owner/brewmaster of the ManOwaR nano-Brewery
 software QA specialist, unix systems administrator, Usenet admin, 
 zymurgist, BJCP beer judge, president of the Madison Homebrewers 
 -- gellym at aviion.persoft.com -- QC is OUT, QA is IN ! Deal with it. 

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 14:00:50 -0500
From: molloy at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: Honey I Primed The Beer


  My last creation was a Belgian, but I am a bit of a renegade so I brewed
with a lb of honey instead of malto-dextrin, I also primed with 3/4
cup honey. (about 3/4 lb I think) 
  Things got very interesting when I opened one up after only 6 days and
found the carbination was out of controll. I decided to refridgerate all
the beer to stop any further carbination. I noticed that the beer has a
very nice, slight, tast of honey.
  The honey I used was whipped and spreadable I wounder if this had any
effect on carb time?
  I think a problem with this method might be if the beer was allowed to
warm up for a few days it would over carbinate. This also means that you
could not age the beer for months, in say the basement. 

  FYI: I used that 1214 Banana yeast, The flavor is only present in the
first sip and then it is not noticable at all. The beer has got rave
reviews by all, and I am waiting to bring some to my first KLOB home 
brew club meeting next month.


                  AAAHHH BOCK! got to love it

The Zootopia


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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 14:06:45 EST
From: jwolf at penril.com
Subject: Leaching Lead from Crystal

     OK, another possible non-beer related question for you chemists out 
     there (now if you had questions about data communications...):
     
     A friend of mine asks if the lead in lead crystal leaches out into his 
     fine old Irish Whiskey?  My opinion is that the lead is pretty well 
     sequestered by the glass, but what do I know?
     
     Thanks,
     
     Jeff Wolf
     jwolf at penril.com


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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 12:40:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net>
Subject: Valley mill/Wooden casks/Yeast culturing

Valley Roller Mill
- ------------------
RE: HBD 1691 Douglas O'Brien says: 

>The [Valley Mill] rollers are 9" long x 1" diameter knurled 
>stainless steel with a direct drive handle (i.e. no gears or pulleys).  

a) How does roller 1 turn roller 2--that is, how are the two coupled
   then, if at all?  
b) Would you say the knurling is full-depth and somewhat 'sharp',
   or does it appear to be shallow knurling with a smoother surface?  
c) Ball bearings or bronze bushings?  

Wooden Barrels (Casks)
- ----------------------
At a homebrew shop in Denver I saw a ~5 gal wooden cask displayed along 
with various associated parts, etc.  I'm interested in casks of that 
size, but would prefer smaller ones (say 10-15 L).  Does anyone know of a 
source and/or how much these barrels cost retail?  

Yeast Culturing
- ---------------
Has anyone innoculated slants using samples taken from the fermenter 
during an active ferment?  If so, have you experienced the propagation of 
'stuff' other than the desired yeast?  I just did this and it seemed like 
a really dumb idea when I was done...


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Date: 28 Mar 1995 15:32:07 -0500
From: "Fisette Richard" <fisette.richard at mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Subject: Software for Homebrewers

Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.

To: HBD
From: Fisette Richard on Tue, Mar 28, 1995 3:32 PM
Subject: Software for Homebrewers

  I am considering buying some brewing software for the PC to give as a
birthday present.  The gift recipient is an extract brewer who is just about
ready to make the all-grain jump.  Are any of the software packages I see
advertised in the magazines worthwhile?  If so does anyone care to give any
endorsements/personal experiences?  

Thanks,

Rick Fisette
fisette.richard at mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 13:35:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net>
Subject: Aeration vs Oxygentation

RE: HBD 1690 and 1691 (Wort Aeration)

Steve Z says:

> Thus as air is 20.9% oxygen, a wort [that] is completely aerated (i.e.
> in equilibrium) with air will contain 4.8 times less oxygen [than] one
> that is in equilibrium with a 100% oxygen environment.

Agreed, but that issue was never the question.  We'd expect that wort will
*never* be in a 100% oxygen environment.  The issue was whether or not you
can saturate wort with oxygen using air *in a standard atomosphere*.  IOW
can you get the 8.55ppm oxygen (in water, now) using air alone.

Put yet another way, I think Carl was asserting you can dissolve as much
oxygen in wort using air as you can using pure oxygen, given the wort is 
in a standard atmosphere (like, uh, your house).  Is THAT true or not?

- -- 
Kirk R Fleming
Colorado Springs
flemingk at usa.net 

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Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:26:34 EST
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject:       RE: Venturi VS Bernoulli

In HBD #1691 Geoff Scott wrote:
> 
> I'm sorry that I missed the first part of this discussion, but from
> what you describe, it sounds more like the Bernoulli effect than
> Venturi.  A Venturi tube is one in which flow cavitates (i.e. the
> liquid turns back into vapor because of a reduction of pressure)
> because of changes in the tubes diameter.  If this is what is
> happening in your tube, then no aeration is taking place since the
> bubbles in the fluid are simply the fluid in a vapor state.  However,
> if you are getting aeration by having air sucked in through a small
> hole, then a good explanation would be that the reduced pressure due
> to the moving fluid (Bernoulli effect) is causing it.  I hope this
> helps.
> 
> John
> 
Sorry, but this is not correct.  As far as I am aware, there is no 
Bernoulli "effect", just the Bernoulli equation, which basically says 
that a flowing liquid has three "types" of energy: velocity, 
pressure, and elevation, and that the sum of these is constant 
(ideally, not counting for flow friction).  So say you have flow 
through a level pipe (elevation energy is constant) and the pipe 
diameter suddenly decreases.  Conservation of mass says the flow must 
be faster in the smaller pipe (higher velocity energy), so the 
pressure energy must drop to keep the sums constant.  THIS is the 
Venturi effect.  This drop in pressure of a flowing liquid is what 
"sucks" the air in through the hole in your racking tube.  So, the 
Bernoulli equation is what explains the Venturi effect.  That is 
their relationship.  I hope THIS helps ;-)

+------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Keith Royster                |  NC-DEHNR / Air Qualtiy |
| Environmental Engineer (EIT) |  919 North Main St.     |
| n1ea471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us |  Mooresville, NC 28115  |
+------------------------------+  Voice: (704) 663-1699  |
| "I think I ran over my       |  Fax:   (704) 663-6040  |
|  Dogma with my Karma."       |                         |
+------------------------------+-------------------------+

Return to table of contents


Date:          Tue, 28 Mar 1995 17:34:37 EST
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject:       RE: Venturi VS Bernoulli #2

One more note on the Venturi Vs Bernoulli discussion:  If the above 
descibed change in pressure is great enough (ie the fluid pressure is 
less than the vapor pressure) then cavitation (spontaneous 
vaporization) will occur.  This is what I beleive Dr. Pratte was 
referring to.  So the Venturi effect can explain cavitation, but is 
not defined by it.

+------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Keith Royster                |  NC-DEHNR / Air Qualtiy |
| Environmental Engineer (EIT) |  919 North Main St.     |
| n1ea471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us |  Mooresville, NC 28115  |
+------------------------------+  Voice: (704) 663-1699  |
| "I think I ran over my       |  Fax:   (704) 663-6040  |
|  Dogma with my Karma."       |                         |
+------------------------------+-------------------------+

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Date: 28 Mar 95 14:30:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: stuck at 1020/raw wheat/grassy hops/blackmalt & polyphenols

Johnathan writes about his 1050 beer being stuck at 1020.

>But enough theories.  What should I do?  Thinking that I had cured the
>problem, I dry hopped the beer after introducing the dry yeast.  And I don't
>mind the taste of it (flat and warm).  So should I just keg?  Or rerack, add
>yeast nutrients, more yeast and wait some more?  (And if I do option 2,
>should I try to aerate through sloppy racking and a little carboy shaking?

Perhaps the extract was mis-labeled or you thought you used M&F, but actually
used Laaglander or "Dutch" DME.  If it was indeed Laaglander or "Dutch" DME,
then 1020 is the correct FG.  Underaeration can be a problem with high-gravity
beers (i.e. high alcohol), but I wouldn't call a 1050 beer "high-gravity."
Since your wort was all-malt, I don't think nutrients are your problem.
Aerating after fermentation has started will elevate diacetyl levels, but
aerating after the beer is done will just oxidize alcohols into aldehydes
and the beer will smell and taste "off."  So, no sloppy racking or carboy
shaking...

>P.S. -- Has anyone tried Blue Ridge Lager by micro Rainbow Ridge Brewing Co.

I tried it and thought it was quite enjoyable for an American Light Lager.
Better flavour and balance than most American Light Lagers.  I'm not a fan
of this style (I prefer ales) but if confronted with the choice of Blue Ridge
and the industrial megabrews, I'd drink the Blue Ridge.  I've also heard that
this brewery has beers coming in red and white bottles by July 4th and then
black, green and yellow bottles for the Olympics.  Perhaps some of their
other beers will be ales...

***
Jack writes:
> Question?  Does raw wheat need to be pre-boiled like corn to gelatinize it?

Yes.

***
Bruce writes:
>1.  Is "grassiness" due to hop variety, age, amount, or a combination of 
>factors?

I believe it is due to variety and age.  Also, my homegrown hops had a very
grassy aroma till I dried them, so improper or insufficient drying could
lend a grassy note, but for commercially made hop pellets, I would think this
would be very unlikely.  I believe what I said on this subject before is that
different varieties tend to take on different smells as they age.  Some are
"piney" some "grassy" others "cheezy."

>4.  Garetz states, on page 192, that if you dry hop you should also use 
>finishing hops (late boil addition) and while it is OK to use finishing hops 
>without dry hopping, it generally is not OK the other way around.  Any 
>comments on this?  I've not noticed any problems dry hopping without 
>finishing hops.

Dryhopping will give different aromatic qualities to your beer than adding
finishing hops.  It is impossible to quantify these characteristics, so I
won't even try to explain them, you just have to try it.  Nonetheless, there
is no reason that dryhopping means you have to use finishing hops or vice
versa.  There is also no reason that you could not do both in the same batch.
The short boil will boil-off some of the aromatics and may change others
slightly which is why you get different aromas from the two methods of adding
hop aroma to your beer.  I will resist the temptation... the facts are enough.

***
Nic writes:
>On an un-related topic.  I've heard that adding very small amounts (grams
>per batch) of roasted barley (black) will benefit any style of beer.  Once
>source says that it reduces oxidation, another (Charlie P.) says that it
>improves flavor by reducing polyphenols.  Neither source cites any study.

If you have high carbonate water, dark grain (a bit more than grams per
batch) will lower your mash pH and thus reduce polyphenol extraction from
the husks, but were talking about a minimum of 4 or 8 ounces in a 5gallon
batch to make a difference.  I can't see why it would reduce oxidation unless
the thought is that a beer with more melanoidins (*not* the source of colour
in black malt, I believe) would be less likely to suffer from off-flavours when
it is fresh (the melanoidins give the oxygen up as the beer ages).  If indeed
this is where this rumour began, it hinges on whether black malt gets its
colour from melanoidins or not.  I believe it doesn't.

Al.

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Date: 28 Mar 95 14:35:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: boiling water sparge/cloudy wheat beers/uncovered pots/D-C Pale Malt

Rob writes:
>So, *MY* alternative when I mash was to sparge with boiling water.  That 
>effectivly rinses my grains and brings it up to 170 fairly quickly since 
>im removing ~156F water, and adding ~212F water.  
>
>This is where I was told that I should *NOT* add boiling water, and just 
>add 170F water.  Now, am I off base here?  Discussion of extracted 
>tannins and such from the mash was the main concerns for using boiling 
>water.  Ive been using this method now for some time with really no 
>adverse effects in taste.  

Unless the pH is high, there should be no more fear of tannin (polyphenol)
extraction from 212F water than from 170F water, but what you *should*
be concerned about is unconverted starch extraction.  If your crush is
fine and your conversion good, then the amount of unconverted starch is
probably negligible and there is little reason for concern, but if you
are getting a permanent haze that is not temperature-dependent, then it
could be starch.

***
Jack writes:
> BTW, I am starting a batch of wheat beer (40% raw wheat) and it will be 
> interesting to see how the gelatine works on this stuff.  I get the feeling 
> that people expect wheat beer to be cloudy and I would be interested in 
> hearing what experience folks have with gelatin in wheat beer.

Let's remember that there are two types of cloudy wheat beers.
The cloudiness in Bavarian Weizens is due to the pouring of the yeast from
the bottom of the bottle into the glass and not from the wheat.  The cloudiness
in the Belgian White style of beer is indeed from protein and most (all?)
Belgian white brewers use raw wheat as Jack is proposing, so without long
glucan and protein rests, you probably will have a cloudy beer.  I don't know
what the gelatine will do to so much protein, however.

***
Jim writes:
>Pat asks:
>
><Q. Do you cover or uncover the brewpot?
<snip>
>< But are the negative consequences (not evaporating undesireable volatiles,
>< etc) significant enough that I should buy a 150,000bu propane-fired burner?
<snip>
>
>A partially covered pot is OK.  I would try to situate it so that any
>condensate will not end up back in the kettle, if possible.  A partially
>covered pot will still allow the desirable venting of the boiled off
>volatiles.  In the large copper onion dome kettles, there is a special
<snip>

I have brewed every one of my 200+ batches with a partially covered kettle
where the condensate on the inside of the lid *DID* drip back into the
kettle and neither I, nor any judge who has tasted my beer, have sensed
any DMS or other undesirable aromatics in any of my beers.  However, 99% of
them have been ales and the evolving CO2 does scrub out remaining DMS, so
Jim's advice may be more important for lager brewers where the CO2 evolution
is much slower.  Just a few datapoints.

***
George writes:
>Anecdotal evidence exits that
>suggest the problems Steve and Scott cite with the Pale Ale malt
>are not uncommon. I have heard of slow and turbid lautering, beers which
>are very hard to filter, and related problems. Intuitively this
>would seem to point to elevated wort beta-glucan levels, however
>I have not seen data to support this...

I have not tried to filter any of the beers I've made with the D-C Pale
Ale malt, but have never had any problems with slow or turbid lautering.
I did have problems with excessive cold break and a slight, irritating
permanent haze which I eliminated with a 30-minute protein rest at 135-140F.

Would elevated beta-glucan levels result in excessive cold break?  Should I
instead try a beta-glucan rest and bypass the protein rest?

Al.

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 16:46:33 -0600
From: ddavison at earth.execpc.com (Dennis Davison)
Subject: 1st Round - Chicago - Update

To: Those planning on attending the 1st round judging in Chicago

The Brewoff Dinner has been reduced in price to $35.00. If your check is in
the mail you will get a refund.

Also, I have secured a block of rooms at The Red Roof Inn for $47.99 + tax
per night for double occupancy (2 beds also). You must call 1-800-843-7663
and make the reservation yourself,  mention the AHA and this confirmation
# B199000021 to get these rates. You must make the reservation by April
18th. 

- --
Dennis Davison       ddavison at earth.execpc.com        Milwaukee, WI

Judge Director of the 1st Round of The AHA Nationals - Chicago,IL 1995
Organizer - Real Ale Fest - Chicago - October 13,14 1995

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 17:57:20 EST
From: epeters at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters (919) 405-3675)
Subject: carboy stand


In  HBD 1691 Daniel Hays writes:

>Eric, if I'm not mistaken, far from beating a dead horse, yours is
>only the second post I've seen in response to the Fermentap review--
>the horse isn't even comatose!
>I'm beginning to think that the inverted carboy method is one I need
to
>adopt, since after a year-and-a-half of struggle I remain
>siphon-impaired.  Though it seems the big drawbacks might be the
>inability to use those convenient hop pellets in either the boil or in
>dry-hopping, I still think the minimal exposure of wort to air makes
this
>practice one best suited for me.  I'd be interested in more specific
>information--as may your fellow BrewCap users--about the stand you
guys
>built and how it incorporates the Lazy Susan bearings.

I shouldn't be so hard on pellets.  We had a bad experience with
pellets at various stages of our process and haven't used them
since.  I ain't a pellet fella.  There may be a legion of inverters
who use them religiously.  Your milage could quite possibly differ
by a considerable amount.  Minimal exposure is why we invert.
We ferment in a root cellar off my brother's basement.  Before we
cleaned it up, I was afraid to go in there.  There are still some
cracks in the foundation that bring in outside air and masses of
crickets.  We think we stopped the flooding, but won't know until
we get rain.  Anyway, it's not an ideal fermentation room.  When
we started to use it, we went upside down to eliminate racking
from primary to secondary.  Our fermentation is completely closed
from chiller to keg.  I've never siphoned so I can't relate to
your troubles.  I won't detail our stand.  We used two-by-fours
that we had a pile of and made it up as we went.  She is a beauty
though.  Go crazy and hang your inverted carboy from the ceiling
or bolt it to a wall.  Hey, concrete is cheap!

Eric Peters


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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 15:23:19 EST
From: mlloyd at cuix.pscu.com
Subject: Pyramid Apricot Ale clone (again)


Thanks for all the responses pointing out how to use real apricots in my
attempt to clone Pyramid Apricot Ale.

Those responses are missing the point somewhat in that I am curious as
to the use of apricot essence to clone this product.  I have personally
spoken with a brewmaster at Pyramid who confirmed for me that their
apricot ale is made using the same essence that I purchased.

Thus, my curiosity is how to duplicate Pyramid's product using the same
apricot essence.  If you have any ideas on this, please post to the HBD
or send me private e-mail.  Good responses will be summarized in a
future issue of the HBD.

Michael G. Lloyd
mlloyd at cuix.pscu.com

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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 95 18:42:56 -0600
From: WIRESULTS at WINET.psinet.org
Subject: RootBeer - How do they do it?


ok, I give up.... There are lots of microbrewers out there doing some
seriously good rootbeer. Anyone got some thoughts on what sort of recipies
are really used and what kinds of brewing practices these are?

Provate E-Mail fine. I can repost if I get a good turnout

TIA

Randy Lee
wiresults at winet.psinet.org -or- wiresults at winet.mste.org



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Date: 28 Mar 95 18:37:50 +0000
From: mhenry at cheswicks.toadnet.org (Matt Henry)
Subject: Re: DeWolf-Cosyns Malts (PILS and Pale Ale)


I just read HBD #1690 and #1691, and was quite dismayed to find that the malts
I have been using for the past couple of years have apparently been dropping in
quality.  I am speaking of the DeWolf-Cosyns Pils and Pale Ale malts.

Since these malts are losing their quality, I would like to know what malts are
available out there that are good.

Thanks,

Matt Henry

Mhenry at cheswicks.toadnet.org

- --
|Fidonet:  Matt Henry 86:8012/63
|Internet: mhenry at cheswicks.toadnet.org
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.


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Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:09:52 -0500
From: rich at lenihan.iii.net (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: SABCO keg experience? / Pauls Malt? / Wyeast 1968 report


With warm weather coming on, I've decided to move the brewery out of the
kitchen and into the garage. Toward this end, I've decided to bite the
bullet and purchase a ready-made keg/brewpot (my wife won't let me near
power tools). I've seen the SABCO keg with the brass ball valve attached.
Has anyone worked with this and is there any thing I should know about
before I part with $100 for this baby?

- ---

I recently purchased 55 lbs of British 2-row malt made by Pauls or something
like that. Has anyone worked with it. I tried 4 lbs of it in my last batch
together with my last 4 pounds of M&F malt and I had more trouble than usual
getting clear runoff. Of course, this could just be me having a bad day.
Thought I'd ask, though.

- ---

This is an update to some earlier posts of mine regarding troubles I was
having with Wyeast 1968 (London ESB). I had made 3 batches with problematic
(sluggish, incomplete) fermentations. To recap, my problems were in three areas:

1. This yeast goes to sleep if outside temps get much below 68F, which is
common in my house during the winter.

2. This yeast needs lots of oxygen

3. You should ideally pitch a lot of yeast, as much as for lagers.

The key here is that 1968 is HIGHLY flocculent and many people suggested
frequent arousing/agitation. The problem is that once this yeast "goes to
sleep", it's hard to wake it up. I believe that pitching lotsa yeast helps,
my problem is that I don't often plan my brewing far enough in advance to
build up a sufficient starter - I'm lucky if I get 2 ounces of slurry. The
oxygen part I'm working on...

Now the update: I brewed two more batches. On the first (or fourth overall),
I pitched the yeast cake from the secondary of a previous batch.
Unfortunately, I had technical problems with my aerator and was only able to
aerate the wort for about 90 seconds. Results - lag time of about 24 hours,
fermentation about 9-10 days, final gravity of about 1.014 (from an original
SG of 1.48). OK, enough to convince me that there is some truth to 3
(above). Next (most recent) batch. Pitched with usual 2 ounces of slurry but
aerated wort for 2 hours. Also, acting on a tip from a member of my
brewclub, I agitated the wort about once an hour for the first 5 or six
hours (until I went to bed). Lag time about 12-14 hours with a final gravity
of 1.012 (down from 1.050) after 7 days. OK, now I'm sold on 2 (above). I
kept the temps as near to 68F as I could for both batches.

Conclusion: This yeast has a really distinctive flavor profile that I really
enjoy, otherwise I would not have put up with this much trouble. However,
I'm not convinced that this yeast is worth the trouble (for me). By the way,
even though this yeast is so flocculent, the resulting beers all have a
yeasty taste. I don't know if this just the nature of the yeast or a result
of the long exposure to the yeast during primary fermentation. I don't
normally fine my beers unless they're really turbid. Still looking for that
perfect English ale yeast...

 -Rich


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:17:28 GMT
From: pri at MAS.esco.Eurocontrol.be (Andy Price)
Subject: How to pronounce Wit 

Finally, something I can comment on....

Wit is pronounced Vit, but the V sound is made with the lower lip
behind the teeth. This was drummed into me whilst ordering Wit beers
over here in the Netherlands and in Northern Germany.
The Digest is really good reading, I can't wait till I move out of 
my tiny appartment and start brewing again....

Cheers,
		Andy Price
_________________________________________________________         
 _  ___
| \_\__\____           Andy Price
\-  ooooooo \    Siemens Plessey Systems
 \___/  /___/         ODS Project
    /_ /
                    	               
pri at mas.esco.eurocontrol.be  Eurocontrol Maastricht U.A.C
Tel: +31 043 661495   	     Horsterweg 11
Fax: +31 043 661545   	     NL 6191, RX BEEK (L)
		             NETHERLANDS 
_________________________________________________________

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 09:55:00 UTC
From: t.olsen at genie.geis.com
Subject: Another bottle of Evan's ale

Subject: Another bottle of Evan's Ale
 
   I also have seen an old bottle named Evan's Ale at my cousin's camp in
Randolph Vt. Your statement about the lack history of ale brewing in the North
East is wrong. In upstate NY historical records indicate that Goosen Gerritsen
a brewer by trade arrived in Beverwyck(Albany) in 1636, and leased the
Patoon's(Kilean Van Rensselaer) brewery in 1649 with Rutger Jacobson, a river
boat owner. The pair brewed 57,000 gallons of beer their first year. Ale
brewing was the only kind of beer brewed up until the 1800's

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:27:29 +0200 (IST)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: Center for Brewing Studies address

Can anyone send me the mailing address for the Center for Brewing Studies 
in San Francisco?

Thanks,

Lenny

_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel       | Internet:  lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General      | Office Phone: 972-8-381256     
Kiryat Weizmann             | Home Phone:   972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel             | FAX:          972-8-409041
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Wed Mar 29 04:58:28 1995
From: <andersr%smtpgate at police.stpaul.gov> (Rick Anderson)
Subject: Brew Pubs in New Orleans

Hello everyone,

I wil;l be traveling to the New Orleans area in July and I am trying to
find info on local micro brewers and brew-pubs. If you have any info that
might help please post or send E-mail rick.anderson at stpaul.gov

Thanks,

Rick Anderson


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 07:11:39 EST
From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at subpac.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re: Rauchbier Roundup

Scott Bickham (bickham at msc.cornell.edu) wrote [with some deletions]:

> I have received some queries regarding the Rauchbier Round-up........
> This competition will definitely take place, regardless of the status of the
> Beer Judge Certification Program on the date..........
> There's still time to brew your favorite smoked porter or peted scotch 
> ale, so get busy!

Isn't this contest just for Bavarian-style rauchbier ?
Or is it open to other sorts of smoked beers ? Peat smoked malt and
beechwood smoked malt ar two very different creatures.
I was under the impression that it was solely for Bavarian Rauchbier,
and not for the other styles. (and yes, my rauch has been lagering for 
a couple of months already ;-)

	Tim


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 08:34:15 -0500
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Re: Aeration of wort:  O2 vs. Air

David C. Harsh posted to HBD #1692:

>Sorry, but this is a mis-interpretation of Henry's law.  Henry's law is for
>the equilbrium relationship of a non-critical gas, but the critical
>temperature for oxygen is 154.6 K (about -180 F), so you can't really use
>Henry's law as defined (the limit of the ratio of liquid phase fugacity to

The critical pressure of O2 is 50.1 atm, so at one atmosphere oxygen is a gas.

>Also, the concept
>of "dilute" refers to mole fraction in the solution (pure oxygen is not
>dilute under any pressure or temperature) - mole fraction of oxygen in air
>is 20.9% and the dilute region for equilibrium calculations is rarely
>considered to be above 5-10%.

Henry's law required a dilute solution; the solubility of 100 % O2 in water
at one atmosphere is 40.9 ppm; this is sufficiently dilute for Henry's law.

>Of more importance is that there is no reason that air can't be used to
>reach saturation if the gas is sufficiently soluble - this level of
>saturation (40.89 ppm) doesn't care how you get there.  The data I've seen
>posted on r.c.b. and in the digest tend to support that you don't need pure
>oxygen.  It would take longer using air because the concentration
>difference (the driving force for oxygen transfer into the liquid) is less,
>but the same equilibrium could be reached.

No, the amount of dissolved oxygen in water AT EQUILIBRIUM is proportional
to the concentration of oxygen in the space above the liquid. If I put
water in a container and pressurize the container to 2 atmospheres with
air, at equilibrium there will be 2 times more air in solution than at one
atmosphere. The so-called "saturation level" (40.9 ppm) of oxygen in water
is simply the equilibrium amount reached at one atmosphere pure oxygen at
25 C. There is nothing magical about this "saturation level", I can easily
exceed it by pressurization.

Steve



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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 08:35:35 EDT
From: Jay_Richards at compuware.com
Subject: Hoptech Shipping Problems

     Fellow HBD'ers:
     
     I recently received an order from HOPTECH which had a number of 
     problems and was wondering if any one else has had problems, or if 
     this was an isolated case. First of all I ordered from them based on 
     their very informative and promissing catalog, I just wish all the 
     promises made in the catalog were true. The problems I had were:
     
     - I requested 3 day shipping which was not done, I paid an extra $5 
     for 8 day shipping.
     
     - The shipment was short one bottle of fruit extract.
     
     - All contents of the package were coated with raspberry extract, but 
     none of the packing material or Wyeast packages were coated. Neither 
     was the box.
     
     - Was missing "Detailed Instructions" for using the fruit extract.
     
     - The grains ordered as crushed were not.
     
     - The packages of Hops were not marked with the oil content or Alpha % 
     rating.
     
     - The grains were not marked with the actual LOV rating.
     
     I know some of these seem minor, but again I ordered from them based 
     on the catalog which promissed all of this, and when I add them all up 
     it seems they have a problem. When I contacted the company they 
     offered to reship the grains and fruit extract and they gave me the 
     rating information that was missing from the packages. I requested 
     they fax me the extract instructions, which as of this morning I still 
     have not received.
     
     This morning I also had a message from them that I file a claim with 
     UPS for a damaged shipment. I am convinced that the shipment was 
     repacked, the box was dry, but I am not convinced that UPS was at 
     fault. I will politely inform Hoptech that I did not contract with 
     UPS, they did, so the claim should come from them. I also do not want 
     to get caught in the middle.
     
     Has anyone else had problems with ordering supplies from Hoptech, or 
     any mail order supply? This was my first attempt at mail order and I'm 
     not sure if there is any advantage.
     
     TIA.
     
     Jay Richards in Dearborn, MI


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 09:31:03 EST
From: BarryM <BarryM at silverplatter.com>
Subject: yeast questions

I've read all I could find on yeast -- Papazian's "Joy" and
"Companion", zymurgy's "Yeast & Beer", YEAST.FAQ, Dave Draper's
"Culturing", and various other tidbits on the net.  A few questions
for those in the know:

1.  One article in zymurgy's "Yeast and Beer" issue states that lager
yeasts tend to ferment trisaccharides, ale yeasts do not.  Are these
trisaccharides responsible for the fruity characteristics of ales?
    Is it the temperature or the yeast that determines whether
trisaccharides are fermented?  (Would a lager yeast at ale temps leave
these sugars alone?)

2.  Is it CO2 production that determines whether yeast is top- or
bottom-fermenting?  That is, do yeasts at warmer temps produce enough
CO2 to get bubbled up to the top, while yeasts at colder temps
produce CO2 slowly and therefore remain at the bottom?
    Or is there something inherent (weight? cell structure?) to the
yeasts that determine where they do their thing?
    (Are lager yeasts at ale temps, such as in steam beers, bubbled to
the top and considered top-fermenting?)


Special thanks to Dave Draper for pointing out that slants are NOT
difficult.  I've got colonies of three Wyeast strains living quietly
in my fridge...


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:28:48 -0600
From: 00bkpickeril at virgo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Stuck CO2 regulator

I thought I was lucky when I got a bench capper for $2 at a flea market.
(Especially since my _wife_, without whom I wouldn't have been there to
begin with, pointed it out to me.  :)

Now, I met this new brewer, friend of a friend, who _gave_ me a regulator.  
The only problem is that the knob is stuck so I guess it's now
non-adjustable.  Before he gave it to me he said that it would only work at
low pressure, which sounded fine to me, I just won't force carbonate; no
problem with that. 

Now that I have it though, I am wondering if I should try to dismantle it and
lubricate it with something.  I can see through a slit in the knob that there 
is some rust on a spring inside the knob.  Is it a good idea to try to take it
apart?  Does anybody have any experience, and/or horror stories to share?

Thanks,

- --Brian Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu> Muncie, IN


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 09:28:01 -0500
From: molloy at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: Band Width .02 $


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Date: 29 Mar 95 10:18:40 EST
From: Curt Woodson <cdwood at lexmark.com>
Subject: Atlas Mill Modifications

I just purchased an Atlas Pasta Mill at a flea market this past weekend for $1. 
It was missing the handle but who cares for that price. Now I need to know how 
to modify it to feed and crush grain. 
Should I knurl the rollers or put horiz. grooves like a MaltMill(tm) has? 
Anyone currently using one? If so what did you do? I know I have seen this 
discussed before and it should be archived somewhere and I have looked at 
Stanford.edu but could not find anything. Pointers to where to look or the 
information on what needs to be done are appreciated. 

May your next batch be your best!
Curt Woodson  cdwood at lexmark.com

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 8:38:35 MST
From: "James Giacalone" <JGiacalone at vines.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Diacetyl

Hello fellow brewers,
I have been brewing all grains for some time now
 but as of lately I have been getting a high 
amount of   
undesirable diacetyl in my brews.
  Could this be my carboy temperature?  I maintain the 
temperature around the carboy at about 58F.  Sometimes
 the yeast seems to take off very rapidly 
dispite this.  Please help!!

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:25:18 -0600
From: DBURKE at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov
Subject:  Lager Yeast Lag Time

I've searched the archives, but I haven't really found an answer to this
question, so I'm going to post it to the wisdom of the HBD.

I recently brewed an Oktoberfest style, part extract, part mash, and
pitched a Wyeast 2178 Lager yeast blend without a separate starter.  The
yeast was fresh and the packet swelled vigorously.

I am trying to maintain lager fermentation temperatures for the first time,
and after pitching I took the whole batch down to about 48 F.  It has been
three days now and there is no activity from the yeast.  I did find
evidence in the archives AGAINST starting these yeasts warm and then
cooling them down, so I've tried to maintain the cold temperatures
continuously since pitching.

Question is, will this yeast go ahead and start?  I expected that lag
times would be longer given the cold temperature, but since this is my
first truly cold lager, I don't have a baseline to judge by.  My homebrew
shop said "Oh, take it out and let it warm up, and it'll get going."
This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

And as someone said the other day, I don't want to relax, and I am worrying!
Mostly about infection in the meantime.  I've gotten enough other bad advice
from CP that the old RDWHAHB is starting to ring a little stale as well...

Thanks,
Dan
Dburke at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 11:41:14 EST
From: BarryM <BarryM at silverplatter.com>
Subject: straws / fermentap "replica"

I'd like to point out the value of those ribbed straws that come with
32oz screw-top water bottles.  I push one in the outlet of my cooler
(it fits perfectly -- no leaks) and bend it up and hook the cap end
under the cooler's handle.   I then boil my sparge water and throw it
in the cooler; by the time I finish mashing, the temp is just right,
and I uncap the straw, lower it to the mash-tun, and swirl it around.

I use the same straw as a siphon starter.  I push it in the low end of
my siphon and begin sucking; when the beer comes down, I pull out the
straw and direct the siphon into the carboy/bottling bucket.

This versatile straw was a key component of my hand-crafted
Fermentap, which I made as follows:

* carboy, with handle
* orange two-tubed carboy cap
* racking cane
* two lengths of tubing
* airlock
* string
* one of the aforementioned straws

1. Place the cap on the carboy.

2. Push the straight end of the racking cane through the larger tube
on the cap, to the bottom of the carboy.

3. Attach one length of tubing to the curved end of the racking cane.
Stick the airlock into the free end of the tubing.

4. Attach second length of tubing to the smaller tube on the carboy
cap.  Stick the ribbed straw into the free end of the tubing.

5. Remove the cap and put a batch of beer in the carboy.

6. Replace cap and tie it down tight with string, using the carboy
handle as an anchor.

7. Invert the carboy, keeping both tubes above beer-level.  (A bar
stool without a seat works well.)

8. "Tie the tubes" above beer level, to the carboy (or back of
barstool.)

9.  Once fermentation kicked in, CO2 bubbled through the racking cane
and out the airlock.  To rack to the secondary, I simply lowered the
tube with the straw, let the muck run out, and then fed it into
another carboy.

(Needless to say, I made a "dry" run with water beforehand.)


BarryM in (well, near) Boston.


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Date: 29 Mar 95 10:48:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Brewers of South Suburbia Competition Results

Here are the results from the 1995 Brewers of South Suburbia
Homebrew Competition (average score in parentheses).  Please
note, that in some cases lower scores are listed for higher
ranking beers -- this is because there were two flights for
the style and a "second round" without scoring was used to
determine the winners from to top beers in each "first round"
flight.  Altogether there were 187 entries.  The caterories
were adjusted because some of the initial categories received 
more beers than expected and others received less than expected.
For example, "Barleywines and Strong Ales" had 19 entries!
There were also 7 Imperial Stouts which were broken out of the
Stout category, leaving 11 non-Imperials.

Barleywines
1st Al Korzonas	(37)
2nd Chuck Wettergren (29.5)
3rd Mike Montgomery (29.5)

Strong Ales
1st Chris Kaufman (41)
2nd Rich Larsen	(33.5)
3rd Mike Rivard (32.5)

Belgian and French Ales
1st Al Korzonas (42)
2nd Rich Larsen (40.5)
3rd Steven Ford (32.5)

Brown Ales
1st Tom and Luanne Fitzpatrick (40)
2nd Dave Lubertozzi (39)
3rd Tom and Luanne Fitzpatrick (38.75)

American Pale Ales
1st Bob Ward/Jamie Wika (35)
2nd Mike Montgomery (33)
3rd Terry Murphree/Mike Pezan (32.5)

English Pale Ales
1st Ted O'Neal (34.66)
2nd Al Korzonas (32)
3rd Pete Train (30.33)

English Bitters and Scottish Ales
1st John Dalton (33.5)
2nd Charles Woods (36.5)
3rd Gary Hauser (39)

Porters
1st Roger Clark (36.66)
2nd John Dalton (38.66)
3rd Gary Hauser (39.5)

Stouts (non-Imperial)
1st Mike Pezan (38.66)
2nd Mike Rivard (24.5)
3rd Paul DiPierro (31.5)

Imperial Stouts
1st Robert Wikstrom (33.66)
2nd Mike Kowal/Mike Frost (29.66)
3rd Ken McManus (26.66)

Bocks and Dark Lagers
1st John Dalton (40.5)
2nd Steven & Paula Stacy/Richard Hall (36.5)
3rd Al Korzonas (36)

Pilsners, German Pale Lagers and Pale American Beers
1st Jeff Renner (37.5)
2nd Roger Clark (34)
3rd Russel Mast (29.5)

Vienna, Oktoberfest and Maerzen
1st Tom & Luanne Fitzpatrick (41)
2nd Mike Rivard (35.5)
3rd Mike Rivard (27.33)

German Ales
1st Chris Kaufman (38.5)
2nd Bill Siel (38.75)
3rd Len Bergonia (34.5)

German Wheat Beers
1st Thomas Stolfi (38.75)
2nd Chris Kaufman (35.5)
3rd Mike Brennan (34.5)

Fruit Beers
1st Larry Opiela (34)
2nd Mike Brennan (33)
3rd Roger Clark (30)

Herb Beers
1st Tim Artz (37.5)
2nd David Gray (33)
3rd Chris Patterson (32.5)

Specialty and Smoked Beers
1st Len Bergonia (35.5)
2nd Robert Wikstrom (33)
3rd Tom Keith (32)

Meads
1st Tim Reiter (38)
2nd Tim Reiter (34.5)
3rd Thomas Stolfi (33.5)

Ciders
1st Al Korzonas (36.5)
2nd Not Awarded		/* all the rest of the ciders	*
3rd Not Awarded 	 * had scores below 25.		*/

Best of Show
1st Chris Kaufman (Strong Scotch Ale)
2nd Bob Ward/Jamie Wika (American Pale Ale)
3rd Tom & Luanne Fitzpatrick (American Brown Ale)
4th Al Korzonas (Trappist-Other: Orval)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1693, 03/30/95