FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Wheat beer cloudiness... (" Patrick G. Babcock")
  hoptech mail order ("Gerry Nelson")
  UPS Shipping Homebrew (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
  Valley mill/Wooden Casks/Yeast Culturing (Kirk R Fleming)
  RE: Pyramid Apricot Soda....uhhh... Ale (uswlsrap)
  Stuck Fermentations and the Dry Malt Extract Theory (harry)
  Re: Brewing Techniques article (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  RE: Lager Yeast Lag Time (Mark Thompson)
  Lead crystal/gout/supergeniuses (Nathan Dalleska)
  Re: Hoptech Shipping Problems (Linscheid, SSgt James)
  Wyeast 1968 (Rob Emenecker)
  Bernoulli Effect ("Dutcher, Pier")
  Lager Yeast Lag time (Eric Schauber)
  Kegging Faq (CA2160)
  Raw wheat and covered boils (Jim Busch)
  Re: Wooden Casks (Terry Terfinko)
  Honey I blew up the beer. (Russell Mast)
  priming weiss bier (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Lambic Offer (Rich Larsen)
  Re: hoptech shipping problems (MTaylor266)
  BOSS (Russell Mast)
  HBD in BT (Norman Pyle)
  Fred Waltman, where are you? (awalsh)
  17th Annual UNYHA Competition (Kaltenbach)
  Re: Hoptech (Russ Silbiger)
  RE: Stuck CO2 regulator (Chris Cooper)
  Best British beers? (pittock)
  lead in crystal (S18312SG)
  Greater Wichita Homebrew Comp results ("Lee C. Bussy")
  Legalizing Beer making in MO (SMSUBears)
  Using honey to prime ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
  Re:  Valley mill (Douglas O'Brien)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:38:55 EST
From: " Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql at ibmmail.com>
Subject: Wheat beer cloudiness...                                         


In HBD #1693, Al Korzonas comments on the cloudiness in wheat beers. In
patricular:

  >> The cloudiness in Bavarian Weizens is due to the pouring of the yeast
  >> from the bottom of the bottle into the glass and not from the wheat.

Is that right? I have experienced many weizens and hefeweizens that have
demonstrated chill haze in the bottle (No agitation; just sitting in the
fridge). It is not inconceivable that this could be due to yeast, but I'd
offer that pouring has little or nothing to do with it since the delicious
nectar remains under cap in the bottle ;-) Acts just like any other chill
haze, too. There when cold, gone when warm.

Particular examples would include Tuchers and Ayingers Dunkels and Helles
Hefeweizens - I cite these as they are most recent in my memory. Hopefully,
I'm not drinking some mutated versions of these brews.

Just some observations. No disrespect intended...

Brew On!
Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock     |"Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the
usfmchql at ibmmail.com         | end of your day as every sentence requires
(313)33-73657 (V)            | proper punctuation." - PGB
(313)59-42328 (F)            |


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Date:          Thu, 30 Mar 1995 07:58:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Gerry Nelson" <GNELSON at acad.cc.whecn.edu>
Subject:       hoptech mail order

Jay Richards mentioned in today's issue some problems with an order 
from hoptech, and was wondering if this type of thing was common or 
not.  I have been using hoptech for some time now, and have found 
them to be prompt, helpful, and professional.  Living in the great 
outback of Wyoming, it is difficult to get supplies locally, so mail 
order is my only option.  I have tried several mail order businesses, 
and have had a few problems with most.  I think it is the nature of 
the business, the real proof is in how you are treated if a problem 
does arise. Hoptech gives good service at good prices, and I would 
hate to see a rumor get started that they are no good! Sometimes 
stuff happens.
Jerry Nelson, Physical Sciences Division
Department of Geology/Geography
Casper College, Casper Wyoming 82601
(307)268-2514 (voice and FAX)

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Date: 30 Mar 95 09:01:00 -0600
From: mlm01 at intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Subject: UPS Shipping Homebrew

Today I got the UPS B...S... of not shipping bottles. I brought some
homebrew into the UPS customer counter, packed in a Beer Across America 
box, to ship to a local competition, and because the bottles moved around 
a little, the clerk wanted to look into the box. When she discovered that 
the bottles were filled with beer, she said that under no circumstances 
can she ship them. She pulled out a handwritten note stating that beer 
and wine can be shipped by distributers only!!!

Is something going on with UPS? Are they cracking down on our shipments
to competitions? She looked like she was waiting for the opportunity to
find beer or wine and refuse shipment.

A while back, someone posted that it was OK to ship with UPS. They even 
produced the Section and code number from the UPS guidelines. Could you 
please post the rules again? 


Mike Montgomery
mlm01 at intgp1.att.com


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:34:13 -0700
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Valley mill/Wooden Casks/Yeast Culturing

Valley Roller Mill
- ------------------
RE: HBD 1691 Douglas O'Brien says:

>The [Valley Mill] rollers are 9" long x 1" diameter knurled
>stainless steel with a direct drive handle (i.e. no gears or pulleys).

a) How does roller 1 turn roller 2--that is, how are the two coupled 
   then, if at all?

b) Would you say the knurling is full-depth and somewhat 'sharp',
   or does it appear to be shallow knurling with a smoother surface?

c) Ball bearings or bronze bushings?


Wooden Barrels (Casks)
- ----------------------
At a homebrew shop in Denver I saw a ~5 gal wooden cask displayed
along with various associated parts, etc.  I'm interested in casks
of that size, but would prefer smaller ones (say 10-15 L).  Does
anyone know of a source and/or how much these barrels cost retail?

Yeast Culturing
- ----------------------
Has anyone innoculated slants using samples taken from the 
fermenter during an active ferment?  If so, have you experienced 
the propagation of 'stuff' other than the desired yeast?  I just 
did this and it seemed like a really dumb idea when I was done...

Kirk R Fleming
Colorado Springs
flemingk at usa.net


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:34:15 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: Pyramid Apricot Soda....uhhh... Ale                          


When I visited the brewery last August, I sampled the apricot and thought it
tasted a lot like the way I would expect a "wine cooler" to taste.  Can't
imagine why you'd want to brew one, but I also can't understand why it sells
so well, either.  Different strokes, I suppose....

ANYWAY, the person giving the tour commented that some of the people there
don't like brewing it because the use of the apricot extract offends their
sense of purity.  She also said something about it not having any hops.  That
caught my ear, and I asked whether she meant that literally, or simply that it
was hopped very lightly (and compared to their wonderful pale ale very lightly
could still mean a decent number of IBUs ;-) ).  Her response to my question
was "No hops."  I started to ask whether other herbs were used as a substitute
for hops, but by then the tour guide's talk went on to other matters.

Can anyone confirm what I heard about the lack of hops in the brew?  If it's
true, that should help our would-be Pyramid Apricot homecloners.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
- ---THE INTERNET: Hardwiring the neurons of the global brain:---
                                      One geek at a time....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 10:44:07 -0400
From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry)
Subject: Stuck Fermentations and the Dry Malt Extract Theory

        I've read a number of postings recently from extract brewers with
stuck fermentation/high FG problems. I have been there, and I am there
right now with two batches (a lager and an ale).
        Let's assume that all of the conventional advice for this problem
has been followed (pitched plenty of yeast from an active starter, aerated
the shit out of the wort, controlled my ferment temperatures, re-pitched
with fresh yeast, blah, blah blah). I still have a problem with some
batches not fermenting out.
        I recently went through the notes for ALL of my brews, the good
ferments, the OK ferments (O.G.=1.050, F.G.=1.024) and the bad ones
(O.G.=1.046, Stuck at 1.030!) and FOUND a common thread- DRY MALT EXTRACT.
The good ferments had none, the OK ones had some, and the bad ones had all
dry extract.
        Since I have used various dry malt extracts, I couldn't blame my
problem on their quality, so I figured the problem has to be my procedure.
I recently read in one of the handbooks (Miller?) that the dry malt extract
should be re-hydrated
by slowly stirring into warm water. I have not done this and believe now
that this is at the crux of my problem.
        I generally use some sort of specialty malt or grain (e.g. crystal)
in my extract brews, which I steep in a bag in my water during the heat up
and pull out of the water just prior to boiling. I then just tossed my dry
malt extract into the boil and it would glob up into some disgusting hard
rock which further boiling would eventually melt.
        FINALLY, my questions to collective brewing mind: Was I forming the
dreaded caramelized sugars by dumping the dry malt directly into boling
water? Are these sugars unfermentable, thus boosting my F.G's through the
roof? Is there a yeast that will ferment them, or a process I can use to
save the brew? Short of a hot new idea from you folks, I plan to
specifically brew up a batch or two of dry, low F.G. brews (lots of corn
sugar and highly attenuative ingredients) and blend them off prior to
bottling.
        Private e-mail responses are fine, but some of your knowledge on
this topic may be of general interest, in which case a posting may be
appropriate. Thanks in advance.




Harry

 ..............................................

"God is not on our side... God hates idiots."
 - Clint Eastwood from "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly"
 ..............................................



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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 11:08:05 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Brewing Techniques article

Mitch Gelly writes:
> A point made by Norm was that although thousands read the HBD, in a recent
> survey it was discovered that virtually all the posts are made by approx.
> 100 people. I would have liked to see the list of the top 10 contributors.
> I've got five bucks on Al K. being at the top of that list ;->

Here's the top 11 posters so far this year.  There have been 74 issues
so far.  

  45 korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  41 "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
  30 Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
  25 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
  25 "Lee Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
  21 "Bob Paolino" <uswlsrap at ibmmail.com>
  17 pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
  17 hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
  15 TomF775202 at aol.com
  15 PatrickM50 at aol.com
  15 "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>

Here's a table of the number of people who have made "N" or more posts:

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
895	387	217	142	90	68	50	38	33	25

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:14:08 -0800
From: Mark Thompson <markt at hptal04.cup.hp.com>
Subject: RE: Lager Yeast Lag Time

DAN BURKE wrote:
>I recently brewed an Oktoberfest style, part extract, part mash, and
>pitched a Wyeast 2178 Lager yeast blend without a separate starter.  The
>yeast was fresh and the packet swelled vigorously.

>I am trying to maintain lager fermentation temperatures for the first time,
>and after pitching I took the whole batch down to about 48 F.  It has been
>three days now and there is no activity from the yeast.  I did find
>evidence in the archives AGAINST starting these yeasts warm and then
>cooling them down, so I've tried to maintain the cold temperatures
>continuously since pitching.
>
>Question is, will this yeast go ahead and start?  I expected that lag
>times would be longer given the cold temperature, but since this is my
>first truly cold lager, I don't have a baseline to judge by.  My homebrew
shop said "Oh, take it out and let it warm up, and it'll get going."
>This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.
>
I think that you severly underpitched this batch.  For my PU clone I
used the packet to up to a 3/4gallon starter for a 9 gallon batch.
There still wasn't that much yeast settement and the starter was still
turbid so i had to pitch the liquid.  I had cooled the wort to 55F, or
so, and imediately put the fermenter in the 50F frig after pitching. I
was worried the next morning because i didn't see a big kreusen(sp).
So i think i under pitched.  By later that day, 24 hours later, i had
fermentation underway.

Through this process I came to the conslusion that the only way to
really get a decient pitching quanity is to brew several batches
of increasing size and pitch from one to the next.  You could start
with a 500ml pitch from the packet.  Next go to a 2l test batch.  Next
brew a 3gallon batch, and repitch this into your 10gallon batch. You
don't have to throw away the beer on top of the later starters.
Ferment them out and store the beer in 1l or 2l pet bottles in the
frig.  It's a lot of brewing but that's what this is all about.  It'll
give you a chance to try different grain combos or hops.  Just aim for
the same OG in each batch.

Mark 



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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:27:54 -0700
From: nathan at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Nathan Dalleska)
Subject: Lead crystal/gout/supergeniuses


Jeff Wolf asks whether liqour (whiskey in particular) stored
in a lead crystal decanter can develop a dangerous lead con-
centration over time.  According to Irving M. Klotz in 
Journal of Chemical Education (volume 71, number 12, December
1994, page 1015) the answer is YES.  For example, a sample of
whiskey taken from a decanter in the home of one of his 
colleagues was found to hold 2.587 milligrams of lead per
liter.  Port held in a lead crystal decanter less than
one year contained 203 micrograms/liter (IMHO this could be
accounted for from the lead containing foil over the bottle
the port was shipped in).  In any event, lead blocks excretion
of uric acid by the kidneys, leading to gout.  In  the 18th
century, Klotz tells us, gout was endemic to Britain, apparently
due to the practice of storing port, sherry, madeira, etc. in
lead crystal containers.  (Peer pressure wins again).  This lead
to the belief among the wealthy classes of Britain that gout
is associated with genius intelligence.  So Jeff, if your friend
continues drinking spirits from lead crystal, he can contract
gout and join the ranks of "supergeniuses" such as Alexander the
Great, Ben Franklin, Sir Isaac Newton, Tennyson, and even Luther.

Cheers!

Nathan Dalleska

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Date: Sat, 30 Mar 19 95:11
From: LINSCHEJ.WING at WING.SAFB.AF.MIL (Linscheid, SSgt James)
Subject: Re: Hoptech Shipping Problems

Jay Richards was describing a problem with a recent Hoptech order. It was 
an almost perfect description of an order I just made with then.  I must 
say, after a few calls, they DID fix the problems with the order.  I 
wasn't going to post my problem with them, but it seems there may be a 
serious quality control problem that needs be be brought out, and 
hopefully corrected.



 - I ordered a Bavarian Wheat beer kit (possibly not the exact name, the 
catalog is at home), and only received a bucket of extract and a notice 
that the yeast was on backorder.  There were no hops or instructions.



   -- I called saying I only received the extract and was told the rest 
would be sent.  I finally received the yeast and hops, but no 
instructions.  I could have brewed without instructions, but this was 
becoming a matter of principle. I called again and they faxed it to me 
within an hour.



   -- According to the instructions, and the AHA style guide, my OG 
should have better than 1.040. The actual OG was 1.027!  This almost 
leads me to believe that there may have been more missing from the kit 
than I thought.  I guess it will be the kind of beer only AB could love 
:-)



 - Also in the order was a 12lb bucket of extract and a packet of liquid 
lager yeast.  The box was packed with the 12lb bucket on top of the yeast 
packet!  I feel very lucky that the yeast had not been activated!



I really hate to see this happen. From their catalog they seem to be a 
first rate company with a wide variety of products. If they correct these 
problem I would be happy to patronize them in the future.



James Linscheid

Computer Geek, Brewer




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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 12:16:01 PST
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1968

Adding my 2 cents to the comments about Wyeast 1968 in HBD 1693 made by
Rich Lenihan....

I was out of touch with homebrewing for the past 6 months (moving to a new
house and trying to set-up an area that would accommodate brewing). To
christen my new brewing area I decided to make up an E.S.B. Although the
recipe I came up with (only ever made one batch of beer from a published
recipe) was slightly darker than the AHA style guidelines, bitterness, malts,
O.G. and alcohol were within guidelines. For the brew I decided to try 
Wyeast 1968.

To give a bit of background, I have always done partial boils (3-3.5 gallons) 
with extract. Aeration was never a great concern because I would splash 2
gallons of cold water into a carboy. Then using a nylon strainer, strain the
cooled wort into the awaiting water. Next I would cap my carboy and do the
rolling carboy rhumba for about 15-20 minutes. This has always given me more
than adequate aeration for my worts before pitching yeast... or so I thought.

With the liquid wyeast cultures, I always allowed them to incubate and would
pitch directly into my wort (without using a starter). Now, with my E.S.B.
(not only to christen the house, but also in honor of tax time) appropriately
titled "Got 'Dem Ole' I.R.S. Bitter Blues", after pitching the yeast it was a
good 48 hours before the yeast began a good healthy fermentation. It has now
been 9 days since pitching and the yeast is finally showing signs of slowing.
My concern is that I may not get a complete fermentation. What is the best way
to "wake up" the yeast and at the same time, minimize any chance of
contamination?


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
:  "There are only two things in life that                         oooooo    :
:   we can ever be certain of...                                 _oooooooo   :
:                      ...taxes and beer!"                      /_|  oooooo  :
:   Cheers,                                                    // |    ooo   :
:   Rob Emenecker                                              \\_|   oo |   :
:   remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker)                       \_|     o|   :
:   Cadmus Journal Services, Inc.                                 |______|   :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+




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Date: 30 Mar 1995 09:23:09 PST
From: "Dutcher, Pier" <PEDU at chevron.com>
Subject: Bernoulli Effect


From: Dutcher, Pier     -PEDU
To:  OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject:  Bernoulli Effect
Date: 1995-03-30 09:11
Priority:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John says <, it sounds more like the Bernoulli effect than Venturi.  >
Keith says <Sorry, but this is not correct.  As far as I am aware, there is
no Bernoulli "effect", just the Bernoulli equation  <snip> .  So, the
Bernoulli equation is what explains the Venturi effect.  >

I know that this isn't a physics BB, but what-the-heck --

It's been a long time since Physics 201 for me, but Webster's dictionary
gives a nice definition of "Bernoulli effect" and nothing for "Venturi
effect."  Bernoulli's *LAW* quantifies the Bernoulli effect, which explains
how a venturi works.  A venturi requires a restriction in the fluid stream
to raise the velocity and lower the pressure, which is not what is happening
when you drill holes in the wall of constant-diameter tubing.  I think John
is correct.  Regardless, the dang things work for aerating wort.  --  Pier




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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:32:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Schauber <schaubee at ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: Lager Yeast Lag time


In HBD #1693 (March 30, 1995)
DBURKE at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov wrote:

> I am trying to maintain lager fermentation temperatures for the first time,
> and after pitching I took the whole batch down to about 48 F.  It has been
> three days now and there is no activity from the yeast.  I did find
> evidence in the archives AGAINST starting these yeasts warm and then
> cooling them down, so I've tried to maintain the cold temperatures
> continuously since pitching.
> 
> Question is, will this yeast go ahead and start?  I expected that lag
> times would be longer given the cold temperature, but since this is my
> first truly cold lager, I don't have a baseline to judge by.  My homebrew
> shop said "Oh, take it out and let it warm up, and it'll get going."
> This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.
> 
> And as someone said the other day, I don't want to relax, and I am worrying!
> Mostly about infection in the meantime.  I've gotten enough other bad advice
> from CP that the old RDWHAHB is starting to ring a little stale as well...
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan
> Dburke at smtpgate.tnrcc.texas.gov
> 

How quickly did you lower the temperature?
My take on this is that an abrupt change in temp. may have shocked the 
yeast into (hopefully) temporary dormancy.  For my first and only lager 
attempt, I used Wyeast American Lager (#????), which is notably 
temperature-sensitive.  I let the pack incubate, pitched, and fermented 
for one day, all at 75 F (per package instructions).  After 24 h, the 
batch was bubbling vigorously.  I then turned off the heater, insulated 
the fermenter with some old clothes, and let the batch cool to my 
December room temp (about 45F, brrrr).  The yeast expressed their 
displeasure by ceasing all activity for over 2 days before resuming a 
somewhat subdued fermentation.  Yes, I was worried, and having homebrews 
did not help the matter.

Hopefully, your yeasties will acclimate and resume their duties soon.

Eric Schauber
schaubee at ucs.orst.edu
"Nothing compares to the healing properties of a good stout" -- my sister.

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Date:         Thu, 30 Mar 95  12:15:26 CST
From: CA2160 at siucvmb.siu.edu
Subject:      Kegging Faq

SENT BY:  Jonas Hartzler   (CA2160)
          Lab Tech III Ph: 453-6205
          Y'all write back now, ya hear?
This is a dumb question, but where is the kegging FAQ on the World Wide Web?
Or is there one?

Jonas

***   Information Technology --- Lab Technician III       ***
***   CA2160  at  SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU - Rehn Hall  Room 17       ***
***   Southern Illinois University - Carbondale, IL       ***

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:36:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Raw wheat and covered boils

Al says, in response to Jack:

> Question?  Does raw wheat need to be pre-boiled like corn to gelatinize it?

<Yes.

Ive never boiled my 40% raw wheat wits and I get fine extraction.

<I have brewed every one of my 200+ batches with a partially covered kettle
<where the condensate on the inside of the lid *DID* drip back into the
<kettle and neither I, nor any judge who has tasted my beer, have sensed
<any DMS or other undesirable aromatics in any of my beers.  However, 99% of
<them have been ales and the evolving CO2 does scrub out remaining DMS, so
<Jim's advice may be more important for lager brewers where the CO2 evolution
<is much slower.  Just a few datapoints.

I was not referring to DMS.  The condensate contains very unpleasent bitter
compounds that are better left out of the wort.

Jim Busch
Colesville. Md
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 13:41:08 EST
From: Terry Terfinko <terfintt at ttown.apci.com>
Subject: Re: Wooden Casks

Kirk Fleming asks:
>At a homebrew shop in Denver I saw a ~5 gal wooden cask 
>displayed along with various associated parts, etc.  I'm interested in 
>casks of that size, but would prefer smaller ones (say 10-15 L).  
>Does anyone know of a source and/or how much these barrels cost 
>retail?  

The BrewLab (1-800-900-8410) carries wooden casks in sizes from
 2  - 15 gallons.  They also have wooden stands to hold the cask in a 
horizontal position, plus several other items in their catalog. 
(No Affiliation, etc)

Happy Brewing - Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com



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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 14:02:41 CST
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Honey I blew up the beer.


Someone mentioned priming their beer with 3/4 cup of honey.  I hope you've 
got strong bottles.  3/4 cup of honey is a lot more sugar than 3/4 cup of 
dry corn sugar.  About 3 times as much, working off the top of my pointy little
head.  I'd pack those bottle up and send'em to the Chechens before they finish
carbonating.  They need ammo, and you don't.

 -R

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 16:01:43 EST
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: priming weiss bier

I'm gearing up to brew some weiss bier and plan to prime it
with wort which I'll save before I pitch the yeast.  I think
I'll need about a quart and a half, but can someone point me
to some sort of formula that will allow me to calculate this
based on desired volumes of co2, wort gravity, etc....

Thanks

ChuckM

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:37:37 -0600
From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen)
Subject: Lambic Offer

Hi all,

Just was looking through the latest mailing from Sam Adams and
came across an intersting article on brewing Lambic beer.

For those of you that don't know what a Lambic is, it is a
spontainiously(sp?) fermented ale.  That means that the beer is
naturually fermented without the aid of any added yeasts. (Allthough
I'll bet some breweries do add some cultured natural occuring
yeast. )  Anyway, the wort is prepared and then allowed to cool in
large flat cooling trays in a room with the windows open.  This
allows the wild yeasts and bacteria to blow in from the outside and
innoculate the wort.  The only place in the world where the proper
microflora exsist is Belgium, so "Don't try this at home" :-)

The resulting brew is extremly complex, tart, fruity.... generally
speaking quite wonderful and distinctive.  Sometimes fruit is added
to make a special beer.  Examples of these beers are St. Louis Gueze
(I know I spelled that wrong)  Lindemans, Timmermans, and Boon.

Anyway, one of the challenges of the home brewer has been to try
to duplicate this difficult style.  You have to have the right
proportions of wild beasties to create the balance in the flavor.
Well is seems that it has been done by Boston Beer Co, of Sam Adams
fame.  It appears that they received so many complaints from
homebrewers and beer enthusiasts about the "slaughter" of the lambic
appelation with their Cranberry Lambic, that they decieded to make
good and actually create a proper example.  I quote..."With the
cooperation of Lindemans and Boon Brewerie, we were allowed to take dust
samples from the rafters and window sills from the cooling room.  After
several attempts to culture from the samples we managed to isolate
nearly 200 different varities of wild yeast and bacteria.  These
cultures did not however, create a beer as authentic as those
actually brewed in Belgium.  Only when we hit upon the idea that
the proper organizims would be located only in the air, did we
manage to hit the style on the head. By carefully obtaining a sealed
case of Framboise from the brewery and transporting it to our brewey,
then forcing sterilized air though a hole in the box and bubbling it
through a starter wort, we captured the elusive bug.  We then washed
and rinsed each bottle with the wort and allowed it to drain into
the culture.

After isolating the rare bacteria, we discovered it was previously
unknown to brewing science.  Aptly dubbed and trademarked "Pediococcus kochus"
after Jim Koch.  In keeping with last years promotion of the rare hops
sales to homebrewers, we will be providing cultures to interested parties
for a fee."

Advice from the article also stated that is is extremly easy to
duplicate the style with the use of this culture.  All the homebrew
has to do is brew a 20% wheat light ale and pitch a starter from this
culture. Ferment at around 70F for about three weeks.  Also it states
that for a higher success rate the beer should be brewed only once a
year on April fools day. ;-0


=> Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org>
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL.  Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
   Variety is the spice of life.
________________________________________________________________________


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 16:48:05 -0500
From: MTaylor266 at aol.com
Subject: Re: hoptech shipping problems

For Jay Richards:

I had a problem also with a hoptech order when I ordered a brewing kit which
came late with very poor instructions and packaging.

I would not give up on mail order yet, as I order frequently from William's
Brewing (usual disclaimers!) and have always received 
good service and products.

Good luck!

Matt Taylor

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 16:30:08 CST
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: BOSS


Congratulations to everyone!  I'd like to thank Al Korz' for all the free 
advice and criticism, my brew-buddy Jake Galley for the help with mashing 
and that important final stage - drinking, and my girlfriend Sandy for putting 
up with the mess and the smells and the cussing and swearing.

I also have to express my anal-retentiveness.

> Pilsners, German Pale Lagers and Pale American Beers
> 3rd Russel Mast (29.5)

It's "Russell" with two "L"s.  It's really no big deal, it's just that I 
missed my medication today and have to post to correct it.  For all I know, 
I spelled it wrong on my entry forms.  Either that or it was the one I spilled
beer on.

(I was also gonna say it's "39.5" not "29.5" and it's "1st" not "3rd",
but I probably shouldn't push my luck.)

 -R

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 15:27:05 MST
From: Norman Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
Subject: HBD in BT

Well, I guess I have a little explaining to do about my HBD feature in
_Brewing Techniques_.  The survey I was quoting was done by Rob Gardner, and
the information was given to me sort of casually, i.e. it wasn't meant to be
conclusive or scientific.  His survey was over a one-month period, which in
retrospect is definitely too small a sample to draw conclusions from.  Don't
get me wrong though, this was my fault, not his.  I consider myself a regular
contributor, but I often go more than a month without posting.

Spencer's numbers show a more accurate picture, as they have been gathered
over almost 3 months:

>Here's a table of the number of people who have made "N" or more posts:
>
>1       2       3       4       5       6       7       8       9       10
>895     387     217     142     90      68      50      38      33      25

Applying a little common sense to the numbers, I'd throw out all of the
contributors who've only posted once so far this year - someone who posts
once every three months probably isn't carrying much of the information load
of the digest.  This isn't completely valid though, since newbies sometimes
post the same article twice in one day (this happened just this week), and
others like Dr. Fix post rarely but their postings carry a good deal of
weight, i.e. information.

I guess I should have said done more research on this.  If so, I'd probably
have said something like, "a recent survey shows that, though thousands of
people read the information presented, the vast majority of the digest
articles are written by only a few hundred people".  I should have verified
that information, instead of taking it and running with it as I did.  (ACCKK!
I've become one of those careless non-fact-checking journalists I've been
lampooning for so long!).  Now Spencer, let's talk about how you got YOUR
numbers... :-)  Sorry about the misinformation, folks.

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 09:58:25      
From: awalsh at ibm.net
Subject: Fred Waltman, where are you?


Sorry guys. I've lost Fred's email address and
need to contact him pronto. Please email me
Fred. Note my new address.

**************************
// Andy Walsh from Sydney.
// awalsh at ibm.net
// phone (02) 369 5711
**************************

PS. Nice article on the HBD in BT, Norm.


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 20:11:38 -0500
From: Kaltenbach at aol.com
Subject: 17th Annual UNYHA Competition

It's not too late to enter the UNYHA 17th Annual AHA-sanctioned 
Competition!  It's a great chance to get some credit for brewing great 
beer or mead!  Prizes and high-quality certificates are awarded to 1st, 
2nd, and 3rd place winners.  Best of show prize is a complete home 
kegging system!  Send in those entries!
_______________________________________________________________________

                Upstate New York Homebrewers Association
           17th Annual Competition and 6th Empire State Open

                        Saturday, April 22, 1994
                 McGinnity's Restaurant and Party House
                          534 West Ridge Road
                          Rochester, New York

             Doors open at 6 PM  --  Judging begins at 7 PM
                           Admission:  $5.00

     Come & join the fun!  Enjoy complimentary samples of homebrew!
_______________________________________________________________________

11 HOMEBREW STYLES WILL BE JUDGED:

     British Ale              Light Lager              Porter & Stout
     North American Ale       Amber Lager              Belgian        
     Brown Ale                Dark Lager               Specialty
     Mead           Looks Like "Saranac Pale Ale"

               No entries will be accepted after April 12.

Contest entries may be entered at homebrew shops in Rochester, Buffalo, 
Syracuse, Utica, Ithaca, Binghamton, Albany, and the Hudson Valley 
 -or- they may be shipped.  Send email request to address below for more 
information.

Prizes:

  * Prizes are awarded for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places in all categories
  * For all categories (except Looks Like):  Malt extract or other brewing 
    supplies (honey for Mead category)
  * For Looks Like "Saranac Pale Ale":  Prizes awarded by F.X. Matt's 
    Brewery

Prizes For Best of Show:

  1st Prize -- Complete home kegging system 
  2nd Prize -- $50 gift certificate for homebrew supplies from The Wine 
               Press & Hops
  3rd Prize -- $25 gift certificate at Rohrbach Brewing Company

(All categories except Mead and Looks Like "Saranac Pale Ale" compete 
for best of show.)

*** Contest Sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association ***

For more info about our competition, email me at the address below:

========================================================================
Tom Kaltenbach               Member, Upstate New York Homebrewers Assoc.
Email:  kaltenbach at aol.com   Rochester, New York, USA                   
========================================================================


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 17:45:01 +0800
From: silbiger at mind.net (Russ Silbiger)
Subject: Re: Hoptech


>Jay_Richards at compuware.com says:
 >  I recently received an order from HOPTECH which had a number of 
>     problems and was wondering if any one else has had problems, or if 
>     this was an isolated case. First of all I ordered from them based on 
>     their very informative and promissing catalog, I just wish all the 
>     promises made in the catalog were true. The problems I had were:
> 
     ( quite a few)

 My first order with them, they forgot to send the hops, then they sent
 the wrong ones.  Other than that (and slow deliverey on another order)
 they have done okay.  
 Overall I prefer Williams' Brewing in San Leandro for my mail order 
 needs. Every order has been correct and sent out the same day.

Russ   
 ==========================================================
 silbiger at mind.net  *_Russ_Silbiger_* This space available
 silbiger at aol.com   *__Ashland__Or__*      for rent.
 ==========================================================


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 21:28:07 -0500
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: RE: Stuck CO2 regulator

Brian Pickerill asked about the wisdom of dismantling a
CO2 regulator to repair it.  I recently was given 3 older
(at least 10 years old) "Cornelius" brand regulators,
they were very dirty and somewhat rusty but with effort
and a small dremel tool and wire brush I was able to put
them back into working order. I replaced all rusted screws
with stainless allen bolts including the one used to adjust
the pressure.  (Hint: I used a old toothbrush and toothpaste
to clean the internal parts and rubber seals)

So I say get out your tools and go for it! 

Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Where ever you go <--
ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com         --> There you are     <--
 


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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 12:38:46 EST
From: pittock at rsbs-central.anu.edu.au
Subject: Best British beers?

Hi, I have a quick request.  A friend is about to ship all of his
belongings from London to Australia and had very graciously offered to ship
back some beer for me.  Could I pick the minds and palates of those on the
HBD for some beers of excellence that I should request?  If you post
directly to me, I'll post a short summary if appropriate.  Thankyou.
                                                Chris Pittock.


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 21:58:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: S18312SG at umassd.edu
Subject: lead in crystal

Hi Brewers,
	Oh, boy, my first post. Regarding Jeff Wolf's question about 
lead leaching from the crystal into the old whiskey: won't happen.
Two reasons: First, there is way too much silica in the matrix for 
leaching to occur.  Those old, lead pottery glazes are way high in 
lead and auxilliary fluxes, so the soluble lead oxide is free to go on 
its way.
	Second: There ain't any lead there.  My old glaze calc teacher 
told us once that the glass industry uses lead in crystal as a 
purifier.  The lead is added to the cullet mix with the other, trace 
fluxes.  At high temperatures, the lead boils off taking impurities 
with it.  Thus, that wonderful, clear lead crystal.
	I hope that clears things up a bit.
					Prost!
				Steve Grimmer
				Ceramics grad
				UMass/Dartmouth


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Date:          Thu, 30 Mar 1995 21:18:53 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Greater Wichita Homebrew Comp results

Here are the results from the Second Annual Greater Wichita Homebrew 
Competition.  Over 150 entries were judges and we had a great time!

Congratulations to all the winners!

American Ales
1st place	Gary Lloyd		GTHOF

2nd place	Jim Madl			GTHOF

3rd Place	Mark Taylor		Just Brewin'

English Ales
1st place	Gary Lloyd		GTHOF

2nd place	Gary Lloyd		GTHOF

3rd place	Todd Hazard/Larry Brueninger	GTHOF

Strong Ales/Belgians
1st place	Stan Holder		Derby

2nd place	Mike Poulter		Lawrence

3rd place	Matt Henry		St Louis Brews

Brown/Scottish Ales
1st place	Chris Kaufman		Derby

2nd place	Doug Salsbury		GTHOF

3rd place	Jay Herning		Rapscallions

Porter
1st place	Gary Lloyd		GTHOF

2nd place	Todd Taylor		SE KS Slackers

3rd place	Chris Hedquist		GTHOF

Stout
1st place	Chris Kaufman		Derby

2nd place	Roger Clark		Derby

3rd place	Mark Taylor/Todd Taylor	SE KS Slackers

Bock/Bavarian Dark
1st place	Stan Holder		Derby

2nd place	Chris Kaufman		Derby

3rd place	Mike Bovee		High Plains Draughters

German Lager/Pilsner
1st place	Jim Madl			GTHOF

2nd place	Gary Lloyd		GTHOF

3rd place	Gary Lloyd		GTHOF

Alt/American Lager
1st place	Todd Hazard/Larry Brueninger	GTHOF

2nd place	Carl Froeschle/Tom Dey	KC Biermeisters

3rd place	Tom Gean			Derby

Vienna/Octoberfest/Maerzen
1st place	Chris Kaufman		Derby

2nd place	Tim Nagode		High Plains Draughters

3rd place	Tim Dey/Carl Froeschle	KC Biermeisters

Wheat Beers
1st place	Lee Bussy/	Tom Wick		Derby
2nd place	Chris Kaufman		Derby

3rd place	Todd Hazard/Larry Brueninger	KS Biermeisters

Specialty
1st place	Robert Wikstrom		Derby

2nd place	Todd Lange		Derby

3rd place	David Gray		Derby

Mead/Cider
1st place	Matt Henry		St Louis Brews

2nd place	Jim Madl			GTHOF

3rd place	Mike Walker/Carla Walker	Derby

Best of Show honors go to Stan Holder of the Derby Brewclub for
his Old Ale named Prize Old Ale.

Homebrewer of the year honors go to Chris Kaufman of the Derby 
Brewclub.  Congratulations Chris on such a fine effort and many
wonderful beers.

- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 23:08:27 -0500
From: SMSUBears at aol.com
Subject: Legalizing Beer making in MO

All Homebrewers in Missouri--

There is a bill before the Missouri Senate (Senate bill 468) that will allow
the legalization of beer and winemaking for household consumption.

Please contact Sen. James Matthewson to persuade him to let the bill go to
the floor for a vote.  Also contact your local senator to let him/her know you
 are a homebrewer and want this bill to pass.

If you are not from Missouri and homebrewing is legal, great.  If not, then
persuade your state government to legalize homebrewing. 

SMSUBears (John Eilers, Springfield, MO)



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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 7:29:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV>
Subject: Using honey to prime

Hello everyone.  There has been some discussion lately on honey beers.  There
was also a post several days ago by someone who used 3/4 cup of honey to prime
with, which resulted in WAY-overcarbonated beer.  Is there anyone else who
has experience with using honey to prime?  I will be brewing a honey Maibock
soon and would like to prime with honey to get a bit of flavor from the honey.
Papazian's new book says to use 1 cup of honey to prime, but I am wary of this
because of the info posted here.  To the person who primed with honey (sorry
I forgot who it was), are you *sure* that the beer was done fermenting
completely? (ie, did you take hydrometer readings?)  No offense, but maybe
the reason why the beer was overcarbonated was because it wan't fully
fermented out.  Anyway, I'd appreciate hearing more about this. TIA!!

Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery
Baltimore, MD
gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov

PS  There is a new mail-order brew supply store out this ways.  It's called
"Chesapeake Homebrew", telephone is (410) 655-7987.  I have no affiliation,\
but their prices are great and they are really nice people.  Give 'em
a call and request a catalog.  

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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 07:44:12 -0500
From: douglas.obrien at ccrs.emr.ca (Douglas O'Brien)
Subject: Re:  Valley mill

Kirk Fleming wrote:
>RE: HBD 1691 Douglas O'Brien says: 
>
>>The [Valley Mill] rollers are 9" long x 1" diameter knurled 
>>stainless steel with a direct drive handle (i.e. no gears or pulleys).  
>
>a) How does roller 1 turn roller 2--that is, how are the two coupled
>   then, if at all?

They are not coupled (except by the grain that is).

>b) Would you say the knurling is full-depth and somewhat 'sharp',
>   or does it appear to be shallow knurling with a smoother surface?  

The knurling appears full-depth and 'sharp'.

>c) Ball bearings or bronze bushings?  

Neither, the end of the rollers fit through the ~1/2" thick end plates.

Cheers,

Doug
- --
Douglas J. O'Brien                douglas.obrien at ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca
Canada Centre for Remote Sensing  tel: (613) 947-1287
588 Booth Street                  fax: (613) 947-1385
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
K1A 0Y7


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1695, 04/01/95