FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Aaah! Coriander!! / Vienna ("Palmer.John")
  Big and H U G E !!!! (uswlsrap)
  First Batch (" Robert Bloodworth                            ZFBTO    - MT0054")
  Re:Pre-cooking Ingredients (ALKinchen)
  Racking, Dry Hopping and the like (Rob Emenecker)
  Moravian Barley (ELQ1)
  Brewpubs in SF and Tokyo ("Penn, Thomas")
  using unmalted wheat in extract recipes ("Lee A. Kirkpatrick"                       )
  Starting with UNMALTED grains? Dextrose? (kevin)
  oxygen solubility/low OG/coriander thread/Zima? (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Wort oxygenation ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  Little Rock????? (Ron Raike)
  Cookers (Matthew Robert Koster)
  All extract brewing... (" Patrick G. Babcock")
  ibu formula- home production of "hop extracts" (PGILLMAN)
  Milwaukee, Wisconsin brewpubs (Jonathan Albrecht ph3187)
  honey beers (PGILLMAN)
  Too much gypsum! (john shearer)
  Cancel (LEEPRUITT)
  Hops, Siphoning, Brewcap (JOHNMAJ)
  Re: How do you say "Wit" (R.M. Bijl )
  RE: Northwest LME's (Chris Cooper)
  Re: Zima, what is it? ("Jim Fitzgerald")
  Beer tasting tour in Europe (John  W Shuman)
  Pyramid Apricot Ale (larry.carden)
  Venturi ("pratte")
  Berturi and Venoolie ("Lee C. Bussy")
  Hoptech Shipping Problems (Chuck McLellan)
  Re: Rauchbier Round-up (bickham)
  Stuck Fermentations (John DeCarlo              )
  Mill drives (Dick)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 29 Mar 1995 08:46:11 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Aaah! Coriander!! / Vienna

Hi Friends,

Well Kirk, I hope you are proud of yourself! You have indeed resurrected the
Coriander Quest. }:]  I will try to let everyone in on the joke.

Last Fall, Zymurgy published an article by ??, on (Some beer style,
Oktoberfest?) in which the author stated that Coriander was the magic
ingredient for achieving that extra Malty Character that everyone strives for.
Well, then Chuck and Bob and a few others posted to the HBD that "the secret
was out", this had been their magic ingredient for ALL of their beer styles,
etc. It ran for a couple weeks, before someone else posted, saying to quit
pulling newbies legs.

The above recollection is very hazy and names have been inserted where
convenient, but that was the gist of it. It was a case of a published
overstatement being blown out of proportion for the fun of it, but a lot of
people ended up taking it seriously. Too bad it wasn't Spruce Essence instead
of Coriander. :)
**
In other news, I have had a couple emails from people wanting to know what my
secret is in winning 2 different contests in the Vienna Category. Well, It was
the same beer, which does mean that it was a Good beer I suppose. Ironically
enough, it was the beer that Froze during lagering last Christmas and the one
for which I wrote the parody of "Twas the Night Before Christmas". 

The beers recipe came straight from George's book, Vienna/Marzen/Oktoberfest,
and was the Graf Style Vienna recipe. The Graf Style Vienna is the Mexican
adaptation of the Vienna Style, and is most closely exemplified by Dos Equis
and the darker Negra Modelo, which I was shooting for. I used Liberty and Saaz
hops when I made it. The lagering was finished using that treacherous
refrigerator as a passive cold box and Ice blocks. For those of you wanting to
lager without an extra refrig or freezer, I seriously suggest building an
insulated box and using blocks of ice to control the temperature. Its amazing
how well it worked. I only had to change the ice twice in six weeks and even
then it had only melted by 1/4. As a techoweenie I tend to forget that simpler
is often better and you dont need an alpine cave to lager in.

John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P 
johnj at primenet.com  Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:50:16 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Big and H U G E !!!!                                             


Get those Barley Wines, Imperial Stouts, Bocks, Doppels, Eisbocks, Old Ales,
IPAs, and, yes, even Pilseners (style of last year's BOS) ready to go.
In fact, just about any style goes except Ordinary Bitters, Berliner Weisses,
Milds, et cetera (Save those for Ann Arbor's First Annual Small and Tiny
competition!)--if it's a beer (no cider, mead, or sake) with an O.G. of at
least 1.050, it's eligible for the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's
Ninth Annual Big and HUGE HWBTA-sanctioned homebrew competition, May 13 at
Angelic Brewing Company, Madison, Wisconsin.

Entry packets will be going out by the second week of April, with our April
newsletter.

If you've previously requested forms, fear not, you're on the list and you'll
get them.  If you want to email another request just to make sure, that's fine.
Each AHA-registered Midwestern club will receive the packet, plus clubs from
outside our region if we have a newsletter exchange with them.  If you're in
one of those clubs and want to enter, be sure to badger the person who picks up
the club mail to make sure you have a chance to copy the forms (or just send a
request to me directly).  If your club doesn't automatically receive our
mailings, be sure to ask to be added to the list.

Some of you out there may notice that we've gone with AHA sanctioning in the
past, but not this time.  As you know, something happened since the initial
announcement of this competition.  The HWBTA sanctioning this time around is a
response to the situation that the AHA created by withdrawing from the BJCP.
Our competition comes less than one month after the effective date of the AHA
pullout.  As far as we know, in May there will still be only one judge
certification program, the BJCP, and it will have one remaining co-sponsor of
the two original co-sponsors, the HWBTA.  Given the uncertainty, we thought it
best to switch to HWBTA-sanctioning.

But back to the substance of the competition.

The BIG AND HUGE is a competition for those big-hearted, full-bodied, high
gravity brews.  Best of Show receives the coveted Woolly Mammoth plaque and
other wonderful prizes.  The Big and Huge categories--Big Ales, Huge Ales,
Big Lagers, and Huge Lagers--can be thought of as "mini-BOS's," from which
the Woolly Mammoth beer will be chosen.  Winners in the Big and HUGE categories
will receive BIGHUGE ribbons and brewing ingredients. (BTW, Big=1.050's and
Huge >=1.060)  This year, to accommodate the increasing numbers of entries, we
will also be giving new awards to beers that place in the more traditional
_style_ categories that attract more than 5 entries per style.

Entries are due May 6.  Entrants who will be attending the competition
and wish to bring their beers in the day of the show can do so if they
preregister by sending the paperwork and fees by the regular entry deadline.
An entry is three bottles and $4.50 ($4 for >=5 entries)/$3 for MHTG members.
After the competition, a compilation of all the winning recipes will be made
available to entrants for a nominal fee.  See the packet for complete details.

JUDGES JUDGES JUDGES.... If you'd like to judge in this Hugely enjoyable event,
send a note to me or to judge director Steve Klafka (steven.klafka at njackn.com)
If there is sufficient interest among the out-of-town judges, we may arrange
for a post-event tour of one of the Madison-area craft brewers.







Snailmailers: MHTG, P.O. Box 1365, Madison, WI  53701-1365

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
- ---THE INTERNET: Hardwiring the neurons of the global brain:---
                                      One geek at a time....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:57:55 EST
From: " Robert Bloodworth ZFBTO - MT0054" <debaydr9 at ibmmail.com>
Subject: First Batch

  
Did it last night, my first batch of real Reinheitsgebot homebrew. A
Dunkelweizen with a traditional double decoction mash. Only the Germans could
come up with such a ridiculously complicated way to mash. I wanted to brew on
the
weekend, but that package of Weihenstephan Wyeast which a friend had brought me
from the states didn't look pregnant yet and I had to wait til Tuesday after
work before the little guys got over their jet lag. The recipe is adapted from
Gillian Graftons recent posting on the uk-brewers digest.
  
7 lb Dark Wheat malt (15)
3 lb Dark munich malt (20)
2 lb Pale malt (3)
1 oz Brewers Gold (5,6% AA)
  
I'm brewing in a 27-28 liter Weck stainless electric canning cooker with an
1800 watt heater and a very nice thermostat. The thermostat is near the heating
coil, so adequate stirring of the mash is important when adding heat. I'll
probably try using some sort of false bottom next time to avoid scorching. I
like this vessel, because I can do the boil on the balcony of our appartment
and avoid smelling up the house.
  
I heated 13 liters of my preboiled tap water to about 60?C and added the grain
and rested at 53-54 C for 20 minutes.  Took 6 liters of the mash and heated it
to
72 C and held for 30 minutes at this temperature, then I boiled the decoction
for 15 minutes. Upon returning this to the main mash I got a temperature of
about 63 C. This was adjusted to 65-66 C and held for 35 minutes.  I boiled
another 6
liter portion of the mash for 15 minutes.  Returning this to the main mash gave
me about 69-70 C. The mash was warmed to 70-71 C with another 45 minute rest.
(By now it's going on 11pm and I haven't even sparged yet!)
  
I used a 6 gal bucket with a grain bag and a spigot to sparge, using the cooker
to heat and thermostat the sparge water to about 70?C. I siphoned the sparge
water onto the grain bed using a collander to distribute the flow of water.
After sparging to about 20 liters total of wort, the sparge runnings were still
at 1.010. I sparged with an additional 6 liters of water and squeezed the last
bit of juice out of the grain with the grain bag. I got about 27 liters of wort
at 1.042 (25 pt/lb/gal) The crush may have been too coarse, too many whole
grains.
  
I boiled the wort for 120 min with the hops in the whole time,
leaving 1 or 2 plugs for the last 10 min of the boil. There was some great hot
break during the boil (egg drop soup) which dissolved again later. Halfway
through the boil I noticed that although I had a nice rolling boil, my volume
wasn't reducing much. I threw in 2 bottlecaps as boiling stones and the thing
started to take off. Hanging a secondary immersion heater in the boiling wort
gave an additional push and allowed me to drive off about 4 liters of liquid
during the last 45 min of the boil.
  
I cooled the wort using a homemade copper immersion chiller with a secondary
coil in an ice water bath to lower the temperature of the cooling water, The
wort was cooled to 25 C in about ten minutes. The wort was siphoned into the
fermenter with a copper raking cane and a stainless steel scouring pad as a hop
filter (both sterilized in the boil). This worked very well at removing the
hops, but there was quite a bit of cold break in the wort. I probably should
have let this settle out more before transferring to the primary. I ended up
with about 23 liters of 1.052 OG wort which has a pleasant brown color. I
salvaged another good liter of wort from the dregs for yeast starters. This is
currently in the fridge till I can freeze it for future use. I figure I can
boil it and sterilize it the next time I need some wort. After cleaning up the
kitchen it was going on 4 am and I was beat. The next time will definately be
easier.
  
In retrospect, I judiciously sterilized everything that came into contact with
the cooled wort, that was good. Unfortunately, I was a little less than careful
about HSA and sparge temperature. I also didn't mash out as the pH of my mash
was only about 6 and I was worried about tannin extraction. Although I
remembered the pH paper, I'd forgotten to bring home the lactic acid from the
lab to adjust the pH into the optimum range.
  
This was my very first personal batch of homebrew, although I've participated
(watched) a couple of extract brews. All in all, I'm not displeased with the
process, and proud as hell that it appears to have worked so far. Many thanks
for all the tips from ya'll here on the digest. I'd be interested in any
comments or suggestions from you more experience brewers out there. Posts like
this one describing the nuts and bolts of a batch were a big help to me and I
hope that you also feel that the extra bandwidth is justified.
  
Prost,
  
Bob Bloodworth
Cologne
  
PS: Just to make those of the infamous Boston Beer Works hop deal jealous.
A hop salesman here rounded up some samples for me. A half pound each of really
fresh Tettnanger, Saaz and Hersbruecker hops, as well as about 200g of Northern
brewer hop pellets from Holland with 15% AA! The cost, a bottle of good
Cabernet. Sometimes it's not bad being the only homebrewer in town.

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 12:25:13 -0500
From: ALKinchen at aol.com
Subject: Re:Pre-cooking Ingredients

In HBD 1698, Michael writes

>The thread on Wit (NOT Wit!) bier and the subsequent responses
>of people precooking their unmalted wheat or flaked wheat (or
>any other grain, for that matter) brings up a question. 

>At what temp and for how long do you cook them? After they are
>cooked do you just proceed with your usual mashing procedure
>(eg. protein rest, saccharification, mash-out) or would your
>mashing process change somewhat?

>FWIW, I am not a paste-eater .......

When using cereal adjuncts, they must be pre-cooked to liberate the starch for
 the enzymes in the mash.

Add the equivalent of 10% by weight crushed BARLEY MALT to yourcereal pot,
preferably a 6-row or high diastatic power 2-row pale malt. You could also
use the amylase enzymes that some of the homebrew shops have.

On its way to a boil, the cereal will be partially gelatinized
and solubilized. This will help keep the porridge from becoming a
gooey viscous mass.

Cook until done. The cereal should be soft and mealy, not hard or
grainy. Maybe 10 minutes. Be careful not to scorch it. Add to the
mash. The mash schedule will depend on the beer. You usually are
concerned only with the starch fraction and not the protein of
the adjunct.

 ALK

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 12:28:00 PST
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: Racking, Dry Hopping and the like

In response to Thomas Aylesworth's reply to Jeff in HBD 1692...

> At that point, you  can, if you want, use a secondary, but it isn't 
> necessary.  I've decided that for most ales, there is little advantage to
> using a secondary, unless you are dry hopping (which your recipe doesn't
> call for).  If you use a secondary, leave it in there for a week or so.  If
> you don't, leave it in the primary for another 2-3 days after the air lock
> is down to 1 bubble per minute.

Being a neophyte homebrewer (still using extract based recipes, only a primary
fermenter and ale yeasts), several questions have come-up since I have followed
the digest.

For the collective intelligence out there (G), is there any benefit to racking
into a secondary (my primary is a 5-gal carboy) if I am not dry hopping? Would
my brew benefit from additional conditioning in a secondary? My current batch
is happily bubbling away after 5 days of active fermentation. Or, should I just
take the blow-off off and pop a regular airlock onto the primary?

I also wanted to add some notes to the comment from Kinney Baughman that was a
response to Eric...

> You're using an all-extract recipe, Eric.  You should *always* steep some 
> kind of grain in the brewing water as it comes to a boil when using 
> extracts.  There are 10 lovibond crystal malts on the market to use for the 
> lighter colored beers, darker lovibond crystals for amber and dark beers.  
> Adding these grains will impart a much needed grain character and mouth 
> feel to extract based beers.

With my very first batch of homebrew I did not steep any specialty grains
(Crystal or otherwise). The brew had a noticeably *thin* and watered taste
to it. Though I never made the connection before now... every brew I have
made since then has always had some amount of specialty grain in it (even
as little as 1/3 lb of crystal to give better head). From the second batch
on, I have never had a repeat of the *thin* brew syndrome. I had always 
attributed this to a beginner's error (well... well...)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
:  "There are only two things in life that                         oooooo    :
:   we can ever be certain of...                                 _oooooooo   :
:                      ...taxes and beer!"                      /_|  oooooo  :
:   Cheers,                                                    // |    ooo   :
:   Rob Emenecker                                              \\_|   oo |   :
:   remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker)                       \_|     o|   :
:   Cadmus Journal Services, Inc.                                 |______|   :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+




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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 9:46:50 PST
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Moravian Barley


 Moravian Barley, Grows at altitude, so it malts up better, so the new Coors
 ad on TV states via one non-yuppie type. Anybody ever heard of Moravian
 Barley other than the Coors ad? Not that I want to make a Coors clone, just
 curious.

  Ed Quier          ELQ1 at PGE.COM             707-444-0718
  Brewing Live! from behind the Redwood Curtain, Eureka! Ca.

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Date: 29 Mar 1995 13:13:58 -0500
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas at msgw.vf.mmc.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in SF and Tokyo

I will be visiting the San Francisco Bay area and then traveling on to
Tokyo/Yokohama.  Any recommendations regarding brewpubs or beer-related
must-sees (Besides Anchor Brewing, of course).  Private email is fine.

Thanks

Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ

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Date:    Wed, 29 Mar 95 13:41 EST
From: "Lee A. Kirkpatrick" <WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: using unmalted wheat in extract recipes

   As I'm about to embark on my first attempt at a Belgian wit
beer, I've been following the various threads about coriander
and other ingredients with interest.  I still have two
questions, however:
   (1) A variety of posts have mentioned using some amount of
unmalted wheat (or oats) in a recipe, but all of these seem
to concern their use in all-grain brewing, not in extract
recipes.  What's the best way to use oats or unmalted wheat
in an extract beer?  Can whole or cracked wheat be steeped
like other adjunct grains?  One recipe I've seen calls for
simply dissolving a quarter-pound of whole wheat flour in
some warm water and adding it to the wort after the boil.
This seems fishy to me somehow.  Is there a better way?
   (2) Is there any consensus at all about when to add
coriander seed?  I've seen all of the following suggested:
for the entire boil; for the last few minutes of the boil;
both of the above (half and half); after the boil before
adding to fermenter; and in the secondary (like dry-hopping).
Do all of these work?  I don't mind experimenting but I also
wouldn't mind ensuring that the first experiment was a success.
   Any suggestions would be welcome.  Thanks!
- --Lee Kirkpatrick
  wpsslak at wmmvs.cc.wm.edu

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 11:58:33 -0700 (MST)
From: kevin at wheels.aar.com
Subject: Starting with UNMALTED grains? Dextrose?

I am fairly new to homebrewing - and I'm on my third extract
based batch right now.  Previously I have ignored info on brewing
beer from grains, but after seeing the prices of grain ($5/50lbs
of barley...), the idea is becoming appealing :)

Looking at the info on grain brewing from ftp.sierra.edu, it looks
like it ASSUMES you will be starting with malted barley. But what about
starting with the raw, unmalted grain?  This leads me to several questions:

1) Is there anyone out there who has started with the UNMALTED grains,
   and malted them themselves?  I would like to hear from someone who
   has first hand knowledge in this area.  I would also be interested
   in hearing about using unmalted grains, and using enzymes to convert
   the starches to sugars.

2) What other grains can be malted from raw grain, and what are the 
   proceedures?

3) What kind of relationship is there between raw grain, and dry
   weight malt extract produced?  I've read 75%, but I'm not sure
   if they are talking the same relationship I want to know.
   For example, will 10 lbs of raw unmalted barley, ultimately
   produce 7.5 lbs of dry malt extract (if it were dried?)?

4) Unrelated: Does anyone know of a place where you can purchase
   dextrose (aka corn sugar & glucose) in 50lb or 100lb quantities 
   in the US?  The 90 cent/lb price at the local brew store seems 
   a little high to me.  I used to buy it for half that amount 
   (i.e. $2.5 / 5 lbs) in LA.

The idea of malting my own grain looks possible this Summer, since I
live in nearly a desert area.  We have a deck which gets HOT during the
Summer, and a kiddie wading pool would be nice to dry the malt in :)
I live west of Pueblo, CO BTW.

Thanks!
Kevin

- -- 
Kevin Hass WB0DPN       ! 
                        !  PGP public key by request via email
kevin at wheels.aar.com    !

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Date: 29 Mar 95 13:48:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: oxygen solubility/low OG/coriander thread/Zima?

I'm no expert on this, but faintly recall something which might spark
an expert's memory: Nitrogen is used by some industrial brewers to
scrub DMS and other undesirables out of wort.  Recall in Dave's post,
he said:

>Of more importance is that there is no reason that air can't be used to
>reach saturation if the gas is sufficiently soluble - this level of
>saturation (40.89 ppm) doesn't care how you get there.

Ahhh, but if the nitrogen scrubs out other dissolved gasses, wouldn't it
also scrub out dissolved oxygen, no?  Could this be the reason for the
solubility of oxygen from air being different from the solubility of
oxygen from pure O2?

***
Dave writes:
>Per SUDS 3.1, the ESBs OG should have been 1.054 and the
>Barleywines should have been 1.098, both, I feel, reasonable values.
>Upon brewing the ESB, the OG I measured was appx. 1.035.  Figuring that
>I just measured wrong, I brewed the Barleywine and the OG measured at
>appx. 1.055!

You most likely mixed a partial boil with some water already in the fermentor
and then did not mix sufficiently.  This is a very common mistake among
partial boilers.  The heavy wort fell right to the bottom and only partially
mixed with the water, giving you a lower than expected OG.

***
The coriander thread was started by Chuck Cox who, with the help of a couple
of others, was poking fun at the "magical" properties claimed by the zealous
author of the Coriander article in the Special Ingredients Special Issue of
Zymurgy.

***
I believe that Zima is actually beer that has been filtered so tightly that
even the colour has been filtered out of it.  Then they add lemon-lime
flavour to this insipid fluid and force-carbonate it.  I do believe there
is a little bitterness... I recall it tasting like a Vodka-Tonic with a
little lemon-lime added.  BTW look closely at "wine coolers."  Many are
malt-based, so they are probably made the same: ultra-filtered "beer" with
flavour put back later.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 14:04:06 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: Wort oxygenation


There has been alot of discussion on methods to increase the amount of 
dissolved oxygen in chilled wort prior to yeast pitching.  With few 
exceptions, the consensus seems to be when wort is aerated with air, 
the best level of dissolved oxygen is on the order of 8-10 ppm.  When 
pure O2 is used the dissolved oxygen can approach 40ppm.  I am not 
considering the effects of wort gravity.

A small group of members of our homebrew club recently took a tour of 
the Anheuser-Busch research brewery.  This is a rather fantastic 
facility that makes several thousand barrels of beer annually that is 
mostly destined for the St. Louis sewers because of "union rules".  
Beer brewed by these "scientists" cannot be sold or distributed by AB.  
In this facility many controlled experiments are done to test hop, 
barley, and malt consistency.  These brewers are certainly capable of 
make excellent beers of nearly any style.  Unfortunately, their 
marketing researchers end up prevailing and AB sells few beers that 
deviate significantly from the American Light Lager category.

Anyway, our tour guide (a brewing chemist) explained that AIR is the 
preferred gas to introduce oxygen into their chilled wort prior to 
pitching.  He said that pure OXYGEN would certainly get a higher 
dissolved oxygen level but that comes at a price.  Dissolved O2 levels 
on the order of 8-10ppm will be sufficient for yeast respiration.  As 
you go above that level, the dissolve O2 levels begin to have harmful 
effects on the taste beer.  He didn't say exactly why this would be, 
but at high levels of O2 you may get OXIDATION of wort components and 
you may actually harm the yeast.  Too much oxygen in the environment 
is a bad thing.  Even in medicine, we never use 100% oxygen because 
of the damage it would cause in the human lung.  It's also a very 
dangerous gas to handle in its pure form.  Can you say EXPLOSION?

I hope this provides some useful information to the hbd readers.


JEFF M. MICHALSKI
michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:11:06 -0500
From: Ron Raike <ron at mail.creol.ucf.edu>
Subject:  Little Rock?????

A friend is travelling and was willing to bring back some good beer. 
Could someone in the Little Rock area let me know of a good beer store
to smuggle some micro beer back to Florida??? Any 22ozers
available??  Any suggestions for local brewpubs??? I tried the publist
private email please:  ron at mail.creol.ucf.edu    .......       thanks


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:29:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Matthew Robert Koster <matthewk at csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Cookers

Hi,

I found a $50 propane tri-pod burner which I think runs off propane
at a local homebrewing store. This thing would suit my needs but I
was wondering if you can use these things indoors? Is it at all
harmful? Will my cats be the first to go? Or should I use pigeon
detecters just to be sure. 

I got mixed responses from the newsgroup and am now more confused. If
propane is bad, what other kinds of cookers can I use. I want to move my
brewing from my kitchen to basement. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mk...

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
+     Matt Koster  - Milwaukee, WI - matthewk at csd.uwm.edu     +
+            WWW: http://www.uwm.edu/~matthewk/               +
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:02:49 EST
From: " Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql at ibmmail.com>
Subject: All extract brewing...                                           


In HBD #1652, Kinney Baughman responds to Eric's watery-tasting beer
quandary.. .

  >> (SNIP) You're using an all-extract recipe, Eric. You should *always*
  >> steep some kind of grain in the brewing water as it comes to a boil when
  >> using extracts. (SNIP)

This is not bad advice (don't boil them, though!), but it is _hardly_ a
requirement. And, since many of us have brewed all-extract recipes WITHOUT
this step and without watery tasting beer as a result, I must say it does not
address the basic problem being related - a watery tasting beer.

His recipe is adequate for malt, assuming 5 gallon final volume, and assuming
the base malt (Alexander's) isn't some unknown ultra light variety ;-)

Since I read no complaints about body and head retention (just a 'watered down
flavor') it is possible that the flavor is that typical of water boiled in a
tea kettle - mineral precipitates remain and lend that 'boiled water' flavor.
This flavor may be strong enough to overpower the malt character of the
recipe.

IMO, this flavor is minimized by preboiling, cooling, and racking the brew
water to be used; or by using distilled water. Just remember to check mineral
content, pH for the yeast guys, etc.

Maybe I'm way off-base here - and you'll all tell me if I am ;-) - but that's
what I think is going on. I've had similar experiences when I was too lazy to
pre-boil my brewing water; particularly with lagers.

YMMV, I'm not a chemist, etc., etc., etc.

I would appreciate any comment on this premise, as I've been operating under
it for a VERY long time...

Brew On!
Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock
usfmchql at ibmmail.com
(313)33-73657 (V)
(313)59-42328 (F)


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:23:28 -0800 (PST)
From: PGILLMAN at POMONA.EDU
Subject: ibu formula- home production of "hop extracts"

i have been experimenting with boiling hops in a closed container for 
varying periods of time. so far i have notice that i get decent bittering 
as well as aroma and flavor (i keep the container covered to retain as many
of the aroma oils as possible)- what i want to know is if any one can 
give me a formula that allows the measurement of IBU's if i know:
the ph, density, boil length (rolling the whole time, with whole hops)
and AA% and Ozs. of hops-
i like what i seen (tastes great in a steam beer;-), but would like to
be able to determine IBU's too-
thanks
phil-pgillman at pomona.edu

ps i got the idea from reading old recipes (19th cen)- but am wondering
why this idea is no longer common usage aside from the fact that u need
another pot and burner-

pps- someone asked the zima question again, and i refer you to the jan/feb
issue of brewing tech. 

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 16:32:37 EST
From: albrecht at bns102.bng.ge.com (Jonathan Albrecht ph3187)
Subject: Milwaukee, Wisconsin brewpubs

I'll be traveling to Milwaukee, Wisconsin next week and
am looking for info on brewpubs, microbreweries, and/or
good watering holes.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Jon Albrecht

________________________________________________________
Jonathan Albrecht                  (albrecht at bng.ge.com)  

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 13:37:16 -0800 (PST)
From: PGILLMAN at POMONA.EDU
Subject: honey beers

there are two possible modes of action that i can recomend-
1) use a yeast that has low attenuation, and lots of honey (1lb/gal.?)
as well as your usual malt, add the honey in your secondary, and hop for the
best-
2) after a brief secondary rest, siphon off of the yeast yet again, add the
honey, and drop the temp as fast as you can to close to freezing (this won't
work with a lager yeast) in the hope that you can "shock" the yeast into 
dormancy- what every you do, keep this brew cold till serving (ie carbonate
artificially-
and a third i just thought of- add enough honey so that the yeast is unable
to ferment it all (ie alc of 8% or higher, with a low tolerance yeast)

also, the less you boil the honey, and the stronger flavor it has, the more
flavor will carry-
these are all just ideas,
so if any one tries any of them pls let me know
thanks-
phil
pgillman at pomona.edu

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 17:09:12 PST
From: jds at equinox.ShaysNet.COM (john shearer)
Subject: Too much gypsum!

Greetings to the NET.

I am an amateur homebrewer that has just started formulating his own recipes. 
 Well, I've run into a little problem.  I brewed a batch of light apple ale 
(my own recipe, of course) this weekend, and it's sitting in the primary now. 
 Here's my problem:  after reviewing my recipe for logging purposes, I 
noticed that I inadvertantly added 2 'oz.' of gypsum instead of 2 'tsp.'  I 
cringed at the thought of what monstrosity might be sitting in that bucket!
:-(

Anyway, assuming I have fairly soft water, can someone tell me what I can 
expect from my finished beer (basically, should I throw it away now and start 
over)?

Anyone with some insight can either post directly to me, or post here for the 
benefit of other accident prone brewers.

TIA
jds


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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:35:06 -0500
From: LEEPRUITT at aol.com
Subject: Cancel

Please cancel me.
Cancel.

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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 21:40:38 -0500
From: JOHNMAJ at aol.com
Subject: Hops, Siphoning, Brewcap

Many people have said in the last few postings that when dry hoping their
siphon tube becomes clogged. Also they all seem to be dry hopping in the
secondary. I have been dry hopping right after the Krausen head falls, in the
primary. I have been doing this for at least 100 batches, and have never had
a problem. I think this is because when the yeast falls out of suspension it
takes the hops with it. 

Although I have never done an inverted fermentation with it, I love the
brewcap. When siphoning put your siphon tube though the brewcap. You can
start your siphon about 1 inch above the trub in the fermenter, and only have
to be at the very bottom for the last 30 seconds or so of siphoning. This
will enable you to reduce the amount of trub transfered even more.

If you are dry hopping in the secondary, try using gelatin two days before
siphoning. The gelatin will settle to the bottom, and take the hops with
it.The gelatin will also form a layer over them, making it almost impossible
to suck them into you siphon tube.

Now for a question of my own. I am an all grain brewer. I was using a mash
lauter tun made out of a 47 qt cooler with a copper pipe false bottom. After
using that for years, I made a new tun with several improvements. In this tun
I used a new food grade PVC pipe for the false bottom. 
My question is when I was using the old Copper pipe system, my beers were
markedly clearer (I.E. less Chill haze) than now with the new plastic pipe
system. I have put a piece of cooper pipe in my last two mashes, and my beers
are once again less hazy. Can anyone give me a reason for this?

John Majetic   
  
	No Snappy Sayings, Just trying to make good beer.


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 04:48:30 +0100
From: R.M. Bijl <BIJL at schiphol.nl>
Subject:  Re: How do you say "Wit"


Well, "wit" is, you probably already know, the Dutch (Flamish)
word for "White". The correct pronounciation is as in 'witty'.
Try to make the W to sound more flat. Come to Holland or Belgium
for a demonstration! 

Proost! (cheers),  Ruud Bijl



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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 00:00:25 -0500
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: RE: Northwest LME's

David Wright posted a question concerning experiences with Northwestern
malt extracts and OG's.  I have used Nortwestern LME/DME in several
batches and here are the numbers from my notes:

# of LME      # of DME       O.G.
   9.3           1.0         1.075
   6.0                       1.038
   6.0           1.0         1.044
   6.0           1.0         1.046

Note; these were all 5.50 gal batches  and  all DME and LME was Northwestern.
   
	      


Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Where ever you go <--
ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com         --> There you are     <--
 


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Date:          Wed, 29 Mar 1995 21:57:50 +0000
From: "Jim Fitzgerald" <jimfitz at netcom.com>
Subject:       Re: Zima, what is it?


From: jwolf at penril.com

>    I'm sure this question has been asked before, so please forgive the 
>    waste of bandwidth, but, WHAT THE HELL IS ZIMA (nasty stuff).  Is it 
>    grain alcohol added to artificially citrus-flavored carbonated water?

Ed Westemeier, for whatever strange reason, took a good deal of his
time (which he could have used better making a couple batches of
real beer) to research this strange marval of modern day marketing
in the January/Febuary issue of Brewing Techniques. He even goes as
far as far as giving a detailed recipe to someone if they wanted to
make it themselfs...maybe for a white elephant gift at christmas
time or zomething...sorry for the pun, but the whole artical is
written that way. I guess it is very interesting in some strange way
to see what a good percentage of the beer buying market of the US
will buy...or should I say fall for...I guess one could say that we 
have a very long way to go to educate the people of this country 
about real beer...GOD BLESS REAL BEER DRINKERS!!!

Cheers!
Jim



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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 23:59:06 -0800
From: shuey at halcyon.com (John W Shuman)
Subject: Beer tasting tour in Europe

        I am organizing a beer tasting tour to Europe which will include
the best spots in Belgium and Southern Germany, this of course includes the
opening ceremonies of Oktoberfest in Munich. The group is called The Beer
Lovers Travel Club and the goal is to make beer tasting travel a
possibility for all connoisseurs interested in expanding their horizons.
The trip is from  Sep. 8 to Sep. 20.  I would like to communicate with
anyone who is interested in joining a tasting/brewery museum tour or who is
an experienced traveler themselves with stories to tell.
       shuey at halcyon.com or (916) 244-6945
If you would like to know more about the trip we're taking.



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Date: 30 Mar 95 00:10:00 -0600
From: larry.carden at pscmail.ps.net
Subject: Pyramid Apricot Ale

     I have been following the Pyramid Apricot Ale cloning thread with 
     interest.  I plan to clone it soon myself, since it's a really good 
     summer beer, and my fiancee's favorite.
     
     The Pyramid Apricot is a *hefeweizen* with apricot added.  As stated 
     on the beer's label:
     
     "Pyramid Ales' unfiltered Hefeweizen, flavored with the natural 
     essence of apricots, creates a strikingly unique and refreshing brew."
     
     This means the recipe would be about 50/50 barley/wheat malt (weizen), 
     a small amount of low alpha hops (i.e. Hallertau), and weizen yeast, 
     such as Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Wheat.  Plus apricots.
     
     No need to filter, but avoid much noticeable fruit going into the 
     bottles.  When you look at a bottle of the Apricot Ale, you can see 
     yeast and slight fruit sediment at the bottom.
     
     I made a raspberry red ale recently with 60 oz. (5 12-oz. bags) of 
     frozen rasberries in the secondary fermenter.  It's a great recipe I 
     got from a kind brewing friend!  That experience has convinced me to 
     use real fresh or frozen fruit, steeped in just enough 160 - 170 F 
     water for 15 min., and add to the secondary.  That causes a moderate 
     secondary kraeusening, which means you need room for it (I use a 6.5 
     gal. carboy with fermentation lock for 5 gal. fermentation), or a 
     blow-off tube for a few days.
     
     What also could be delicious is a combination of the Celis White clone 
     people have been writing about, plus apricots.  So the Wyeast 3944 
     Belgian White Beer yeast might also be a good choice.  
     
     Good luck, all!
     
     Larry in Englewood, CO

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Date:          Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:02:53 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject:       Venturi

Keith,

You say potaTO, I say poTATo.  I think what we see is the difference 
between engineer and physicist.  On my side, I had never heard of a 
Venturi "effect", only a Venturi tube, which is used to measure flow 
rates and to show cavitation due to pressure decreases.  When we talk 
about pressure decreasing due to increased fluid speeds, we call that 
the Bernoulli effect (ex. the book "The Flying Circus of Physics").  
I'll take your word for it that engineers call that the Venturi 
effect.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

John

P.S.:  And I'll keep using exp(-i theta) and not exp(-j theta) :).

________________________________________________________________
Dr. John M. Pratte                 pratte at gg.csc.peachnet.edu
Clayton State College              Office (404)961-3674
Morrow, GA  30260                  Fax (404)961-3700
________________________________________________________________


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Date:          Thu, 30 Mar 1995 06:52:15 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject:       Berturi and Venoolie

Okay, this is giving me flashbacks......

Do I really need to know the name of the effect in order to make it 
work? :)


- --
 -Lee Bussy          | The 4 Basic Foodgroups....      |
 leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women!        |
 Wichita, Kansas    | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb  |

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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:26:48 -0500
From: mclellan at wolfjaw.Kodak.COM (Chuck McLellan)
Subject: Hoptech Shipping Problems

In hbd 1693, Jay_Richards complains about problems with Hoptech, and asks
if mail order is wothr it.

Jay, I do a bit of mail order with various companies, including Hoptech. I
have only had 2 orders from Hoptech, but both were complete and as
advertised. I never paid for 3 day shipment. The deliveries usually arrived
in 5 days. Other mail order I have used successfully includes Williams and
Chicago Homebrewing.

Chuck McLellan           |  Eastman Kodak Research Lab
Eastman Kodak Co.        |  mclellan at kodak.com
Rochester, NY 14650-1801 |  Phone (716)722-4828



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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:28:23 -0500 (EST)
From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Rauchbier Round-up

Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at subpac.enet.dec.com> asked:

> Isn't this contest just for Bavarian-style rauchbier ?
> Or is it open to other sorts of smoked beers ? Peat smoked malt and
> beechwood smoked malt ar two very different creatures.
> I was under the impression that it was solely for Bavarian Rauchbier,
> and not for the other styles. (and yes, my rauch has been lagering for 
> a couple of months already ;-)

I don't have the details yet, but my guess is that all subcategories
of the smoked beer category will be eligible.  I'll post any new
information as soon as I hear anything.

Auf ein neues,
		Scott


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 08:43:43 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Stuck Fermentations

>Since your wort was all-malt, I don't think nutrients are your problem.  

Aren't you forgetting the study that showed some/many malt extracts lacking in
such nutrients as FAN, so much so as to result in incomplete fermentations? 
This possibility should always be considered unless you really know the 
malt extract product well.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:43:39 -0500
From: Dick at ccgate.dragonsys.com
Subject:  Mill drives

>I used a surplus motor from American Science and Surplus:
>GE Minagear 30inch-pound gear motor, for $19.99. 

I'm an extract brewer thinking of making the leap to grain brewing,
so I watch HBD for suggestions on equipment.  I have noticed
whenever grain mills are discussed their motors are usually rated
in foot-pounds.  It seems to me that if we are discussing torque,
the unit should be pound-feet (or pound-inches), as a foot-pound
is a unit of work, and would not make much sense unless we are
talking work per unit time (power), which would be expressed in
horsepower in the English system.

A small point, perhaps, but technical accuracy is one of the strong
points of HBD contributors, and why I enjoy getting it.

Happy brewing,
Rich Benedict (dick at ccgate.dragonsys.com)


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1694, 03/31/95