FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  "The Beer Machine" (Rob Green) (RGREEN)
  How I lost my zymur-ginity (Paul W. Shallbetter)
  Secondary; Slow Ferments; Competition Results ("Thomas Aylesworth")
  RE: Covered boils (Jim Dipalma)
  Re: Wheat Beer Question (spencer)
  counterflow chillers and straining (Rob Emenecker)
  created a monster (Timothy L. Burger)
  Ah, Bock! / Big carboys / Honey ("Harralson, Kirk")
  TIA/Wits/Chimay cultures/Hoegaarden (Aaron Shaw)
  All-grain costs, Star trek, etc. (Russell Mast)
  Redundancy & "O2, Brute'?" (MnMGuy)
  My second post and Honey Wheat (MnMGuy)
  AOB E-mail outage. (Shawn Steele)
  indoor use of propane (chris campanelli)
  Contacts in Munich? ("Bardsley, Phil")
  Announcing UK Homebrew email list (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Re: Is lager still good (Eric Schauber)
  Single infusion & Mash out (LPCALC)
  Fermentation: All-grain vs. Extract ("Crake_Kurtis_LT")
  More Qwerstions (Gordon.Mckeever)
  Siphon solution (?) (claytonj)
  Ingredients for Belgian White ("Crake_Kurtis_LT")
  Indoor cookers & broken e-mail (Christopher P. Weirup)



******************************************************************
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 9:15:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: RGREEN at gic.GI.COM
Subject: "The Beer Machine" (Rob Green)


Peter Balstrup <PBalstru at VITGCOM1.TELECOM.com.au> asks about "The Beer Machine"

I like them, with qualifications. First the bad news.
I've got two. One works consistently well, the second consistently leaks.
The company was helpful, and sent a new main seal (the canister has two halves 
which contrasts with the "Party Pig" which is one unit with a single *small* 
gasket around the mouth). Even  with the new *large* main seal it leaked. So I 
had to improvise clamps to evenly press the two halves together (I used binder 
clips). (Anyone else in cyberspace with the problem, the company suggests 
putting the gasket in warm water for a few minutes and then laying it flat in
the fridge.)

The good news is the convenience. You can put together an extract recipe in no 
time at all. No bottle washing, the unit itself is easy to clean, and you don't
need to move the batch to a secondary fermenter because of the design.

One observation is the CO2 cartridges can become an expensive habit. Past HBDs
have some suggestions on this. So check the archives. What I'm going to try is 
have a batch brewing and a batch on tap. The batch brewing will supply the CO2
pressure to the batch drinking. I'll replace the cartridge holders with a
fitting and attach a pressure line between the two (seems low risk since the 
inlets are well above the fluid level (can you say "fire hose")).

They only hold 2.5 gallons, and most recipes are for 5 gallons, which is why I 
bought 2. You'll have to adjust recipes otherwise, or end up bottling the 
remainder. Do what I did, and compare bottle finished beer versus plastic. I'd 
like to hear your observations ;-)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 08:48:47 -0500
From: pshallbe at faribault.polaristel.net (Paul W. Shallbetter)
Subject: How I lost my zymur-ginity

I write this in hope that other subscribers, more experienced than I, can 
critique my brewing technique.  I'm a beginning brewer, and I want to be 
sure that I'm doing everything "right."

I started with a couple very basic "kit ales."  The routine is essentially 
the same, boil, hop, and cool the wort, hydrate and pitch the yeast, ferment 
a week... but here's where it gets sticky.  I've transferred the wort from 
primary to secondary (carboy) not by "racking" per se, but simply by 
attaching a hose to a stopcock in the primary and slowly draining the beer 
into the carboy.  I then affix an airlock to the top of the carboy, and let 
the ale continue a slow (almost un-noticeable ferment for another week or 
so.  I transfer the ale into a secondary for two reasons: First, I need the 
primary fermenter for racking, priming and bottling.  Second, I'm concerned 
about leaving autolyzed yeast in the brew.  Do I need to rack (siphon) the 
ale into the secondary, or is it okay for me to continue doing as I have 
been, to allow gravity to do the work?

Also, my first two batches (generic amber ale and a more ambitious English 
honey porter) don't have much carbonation, even after nearly two months 
after bottling.  Yes, the caps are tight.  Yes, I primed according to 
directions (3/4 cup corn sugar for the amber ale, 1-1/2 cups amber DME for 
the honey porter).  In fact, it seems that I had more head transferring the 
porter between fermenter and carboy than I ended up with in the bottle!

I'm neither too shy nor proud to admit my mistakes and learn from them once 
I know what they are.  Granted, I'm not doing anything really tough or 
esoteric here...in fact all this talk of oxygenation, tuns and outdoor 
propane mash liquor-cookers is making my head spin...but I count on your 
wise counsel.

Reply to me e-mail, please, unless you feel that your advice would benefit 
other novice brewers.  And we are many....

One day I shall stand proudly with all of you braumeisteren, raise a tankard 
and let the cry "I brewed this myself" escape my lips.  Between sips.

Paul Shallbetter
pshallbe at faribault.polaristel.net
Musician, writer, brew-novice, carouser, womanizer.  Okay, Mrs. Shallbetter, 
I was just kidding about the carousing and womanizing part....Really... 
Honey, put that racking cane down...that's not what it's for............


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 95 10:02:40 -0500
From: "Thomas Aylesworth" <t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com>
Subject: Secondary; Slow Ferments; Competition Results


Bob Hall responds to my note on racking off trub:

> > However, even when I did extract brews and left the fermenting
> >beer on the break material, I didn't notice any significant off-flavors
> >I would attribute to this.  This could be just because I was not as
> >experienced a brewer/beer taster. 
>
> What type of beers do you brew? If I  make fruity, hoppy pale ales or dark 
> ales, I tend not to notice if I leave any break material in the carboy, 
> perhaps  because the flavor profile of these beers is already dominated by
> esters and the like.

Yep.  Sorry if I didn't make it clear that I brew only ales (and usually
pretty hardy ones at that).  This whole thing started when I was commenting
on a question about brewing an ale and the usefulness of a secondary for
that.

Rob Emenecker, who started the above thread, writes:

> I did end up racking off to a secondary. The reason for this was that the
> fermentation was slowing down and I would not have the opportunity to 
> bottle over the next 3-4 days. 

Well, actually, after giving that advice, I ended up racking an ale of
mine to a secondary last night as well -- for somewhat the same reason.
It is an ESB, very similar to one I made in January.  The fermentation
started off great (as usual), but for the past week and a half has been
bubbling at a constant rate of about 1 per 30 seconds.  It just won't
slow down or stop!  Since it's been in the primary for two and a half
weeks now, I decided to rack it to secondary, hoping that would rouse the
yeast a bit and it would finish.

I suspect the problem (long, slow, ferment) is due to underpitching (I
pitched a one pint starter rather than my usual one quart) or inadequate
aeration (although I used the same technique as I always do).  Any other 
ideas?  Most of the fermentation was done in my basement at 60F, as are all 
of my beers, but a few days ago I moved it upstairs to my kitchen which is 
a good 5-10 degrees warmer, thinking that would help.  I noticed no change.

Anyway, as part of racking I took a gravity reading, and it was down to
1.009.  The one I made in January went down to 1.008, so I thought it was
pretty close to finished, and this morning I noticed no airlock activity.
Also, it tasted and smelled great (just like the last batch) so I think
it will be fine and I plan to bottle it this week-end.

Jim Busch responds to Jay's request not to post competition results in
the HBD:

> I like it.  Skip over it if you dont.  Theres lots of stuff in the HBD
> that wont appeal to everyone.  Its not of only local interest in these
> days where people enter all over the country.

I agree.  I frequently see lots of names I recognize, many from my local
homebrew club, BURP.  I also like the postings that give the actual
scores -- it gives me an idea of how others are doing in these 
competitions compared to my own beers.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Aylesworth                     |  t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com
Space Processor Software Engineering  |  
Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA   |  (703) 367-6171


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 10:08:24 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Covered boils


Hi All,

In HBD#1698, Aidan Heerdegen writes about mashing out in a cooler:

>I have been thinking about mashout (a bit of a problem for a
>single infusion man like myself

>I drew off
>approx 4L of the mash liquor into my kettle and brought it to the
>boil and then added it back into the mash

>Can anyone see any problems with this?

  There is a potential problem here. It's related to a somewhat controversial
procedure used during decoction mashing, wherein a thin decoction is used to
achieve mashout. The procedure is to pull a thin decoction (remove mash
liquid, versus a thick decoction where mostly grain is pulled), boil it,
then add back to the main mash to boost the mash temperature to mashout.
This is obviously very similar to what Aidan is doing.
  The danger is that if any grain is pulled along with the liquid,
unconverted starch will be leeched into the wort when the decoction is
boiled. If the mash temperature rises to typical mashout range of 165F-170F
when the decoction is returned to the main mash, the amylase enzymes will
be denatured in a matter of minutes, before the newly liberated starch can be
converted. The result is a starch haze in the finished beer.
  So, I have two bits of advice if this procedure is used. First, make 
absolutely certain that conversion is complete before pulling the mash liquid
and boiling it. The liquid portion is rich in amylase enzymes, once it is
boiled the enzymes are history. Second, make sure that no grain is pulled
along with the mash liquid. It doesn't have to be crystal clear, but I suggest
recirculating for a few minutes until the runoff is free of grain chunks,
then start collecting liquid for the decoction. If you pay attention to those
two points, you'll be fine, I've done a lot of decoction mashes this way.

           Cheers,
            Jim               dipalma at sky.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 10:40:41 EDT
From: spencer at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Wheat Beer Question

great at atw.fullfeed.com wrote about Wheat Beer Question: 
 >    I am Looking For a Recipe for a Wheat Beer made from a Wheat Extract.

Partially tongue in cheek:

6 lbs wheat malt extract (M&F, Northwestern, etc.  6.6 lbs is ok, too :-)
8 HBUs hops (e.g. 2 oz Cascade pellets  at  4% alpha)
ale yeast

Dissolve the malt extract in 2 gallons of water and bring to a boil.
Add the hops and boil for 45 minutes.  Add to 3 gallons of cold water
in fermenter.  Let cool further if necessary, until no warmer than
80F.  Pitch yeast.

OG should be about 1.043, FG 1.010-1.014.

This will give you an approximation to an "American Wheat Ale."
Relatively low hopping rate, no hop "nose".  Good "lawnmower" beer.

If you want a German Weizen style, then you need to use the right
yeast.  I recommend the YeastLab Weizen (W51) or Wyeast 3068.  The
rest of the recipe won't change much.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed,  5 Apr 95 09:45:23 PDT
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: counterflow chillers and straining

I am contemplating constructing a counterflow wort chiller (because I intend
to start doing full volume boils soon) and had several concerns that I felt
the collective intelligence could respond to...

My brews are still partial boils using extracts. A typical boil is 3.5 gallons
to start for 60-75 minutes which yields about 2.5 gallons. I have tried with
limited success straining the hort wort into my carboys (it seems that I
always end up with a layer of gunk settling to the bottom of my carboys within
the first few hours). Excuse my stupidity, but sometimes I miss the definitions
of terms in homebrewing. Is the stuff settling in my carboy considered the
cold break, hot break, what? It has never caused me any problems other than
frustrations from trying to strain it out of the hot or cooled wort? Up to now
I have always used hop pellets which I felt were the bulk of that gunk, is that
assumption correct? I have heard several different methods of straining, i.e.
the copper scrungies, plastic funnels with fitted nylon screens, cheese cloth,
etc. What are some of you extract brewers practical experiences with straining
wort?

 .. anyway back to the wort chiller...

I am cringing at the thought of building myself a wort chiller and having all
of that garbage flowing through it. God what a cleaning mess. Normally I don't
give the garbage any second thoughts because I usually soak any encrusted
equipment in a bleach solution which always loosens it up. Unfortunately I can
not soak copper in bleach for any extended lengths of time). So, before I build
and then trash a nifty home-made counterflow chiller, how can I improve strain-
ing my wort, and what is the best method for sanitizing the chiller (without
boiling it or using bleach)?

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
:  "There are only two things in life that                         oooooo    :
:   we can ever be certain of...                                 _oooooooo   :
:                      ...taxes and beer!"                      /_|  oooooo  :
:   Cheers,                                                    // |    ooo   :
:   Rob Emenecker                                              \\_|   oo |   :
:   remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker)                       \_|     o|   :
:   Cadmus Journal Services, Inc.                                 |______|   :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 9:55:01 CDT
From: Timothy L. Burger <burger at calshp.cals.wisc.edu>
Subject: created a monster
Full-Name: Timothy L. Burger

I need some advice.

Last saturday morning I cooked up a bit of wort to use as a starter for a vial
of Yeast Lab's American Ale liquid yeast.  I boiled the wort up, cooled it down
(covered, outside), and pitched the room temp yeast culture to the cooled wort
in a carefully sanitized 20 oz. beer bottle and attached an airlock.  

The instructions mentioned that vigorous activity should not be expected
for 12 to 24 hours.  Plans for Sunday's activities were set in motion. Equipment
was cleaned and ingredients were measured.  This had all of the makings
of one of the most organized brew days of my short (7 batch) brewmaster career.

Sunday morning I checked the starter expecting to see the airlock bubbling
away but was shocked to see nothing. :(  The water level in the lock was even.
So, I waited in hopes of a late night brew session.  No dice. Thirty six hours
after pitching the yeast to the starter wort, still nothing. Tuesday morning -
finally signs of activity, a bit of foam on the surface and some sediment
at the bottom of the bottle but the airlock was silent.  Now it it is Wednesday
and the meager foaming continues.

With all of this said: Is this normal?  Should I pitch this starter to the
drain gods or risk it and pitch this invidious liquid to my next batch?
Have I created a monster?

I realize that this is an elementary and potentially stupid question but the
sucess or failure of my next batch of liquid gold is on the line.

Thanks smart guys,
- --
________________________________________________________________________________
Timothy Burger                       "What manner of man are you that can
Department of Forestry                conjure up fire without flint or tinder?"
University of Wisconsin-Madison 
burger at calshp.cals.wisc.edu              "There are some who call me ...Tim."
								      -Monty P.
________________________________________________________________________________

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 95 10:30:15 EST
From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at news.roadnet.ups.com>
Subject: Ah, Bock! / Big carboys / Honey

Stephen Meredith writes:
 
>I just tried Sam Adams Double Bock.  I liked it, but is this beer
>true-to-style?  I'd like to make a double bock.  There are a few recipes in
>Cats Meow.  Can anybody recommend one of those, or have a better one (extract)?
 
All Koch bashing aside, I think this is a great beer.  It's a lot like being a 
devout Cowboys fan, even though Switzer is their coach.  I liked this beer a lot
more before I tasted Paulaner Salvatore, which I strongly recommend tasting 
before you finalize your recipe.  There is a recipe in Papazian's new book 
called Jah Mon! Dopplebock (or something like that) that he says is close to SA 
Double Bock, but more tasty.  I based a Blueberry Bock on this recipe, but cut 
back on hops and dark malts to let the fruit flavor come through.  This 
information was given to me by another HBDer some time back.  Good Luck!!

          *******************************
          Samuel Adams Double Bock
          -------------------------
          Malt:  2-row Klages/Harrington, Caramel 60
          Hops:  Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Tettnang Tettnanger
          Yeast:  Bottom Fermenting Lager Yeast
          Avail:  Mid February
          History of Recipe:  Double first wort mash developed 1988
          First Brewed:  1988
          Starting Gravity:  1.081
          ********************************

Tom Puskar writes:

>This may be of local interest to NJ-NY-PA-DE brewers due to shipping costs.
> A guy in central Jersey has about 50 *large* glass carboys, 13.5 gallon
   (snip)
>His prices are negotiable and start around $30-$40.  I picked up one--boy
>they are big--didn't look that big when sitting on his front lawn!  They

We used to get supplies from Mayer's Cider Mill in upstate New York, and 
they regularly carried 15 gallon demi-johns (sp?), complete with a "basket" 
to carry them with.  I can't brew more than 6 gallons at a time anyway; but 
if I could, I would probably use two smaller carboys.  Anyway, I think they 
were less than $40 new.

- -------------------------------------

After reading the recent discussion on how to get more of a honey character 
and flavor in beer, I realized that if I could do this with honey, I would 
much rather do it with malt.  Just a preference, but I would take a big, 
malty brew over a honey character anytime :-)

Kirk Harralson
Bel Air, Maryland


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:05:32 -0400
From: ar568 at freenet.carleton.ca (Aaron Shaw)
Subject: TIA/Wits/Chimay cultures/Hoegaarden

>	From: Jay Seigfreid <jays at earth.execpc.com>
>What does TIA mean.  Where Is the faq?, man.  I
>keep seeing this but don't have a clue.  Just because I am clueless here
>doesn't mean I am glueless but I won't have any of the white stuff -- is
>an interesting thread and I have been fascinated by it -- how would I do a
>Wit as an extract???

TIA = Thanks In Advance
For a Wit extract you might want to try the Brewferm Wit Bier kit, and I
would recommend not using the dry yeast that comes with it. Use the
Wyeast Belgian White yeast or try culturing some yeast from a bottle of
Blanche de Bruges. If you want that authentic Witbier taste, adding some
coriander, curacao bitter orange peel, and some lactic acid would probally
help.

>BTW -- cultured a Chimay
>red and used that yeast for one of the NBA -- don't try it -- I poured it
>down the drain it was sourish -- may have made a good marinade, had a
>lager ferment at about 90F in OK one summer that made an excellent
>marinade but was otherwise quite worthless.  Anyway, they have been
>quite
>good, sweet but good -- I was trying for a Newcastle style -- used
>Charlies TNC...etc recipe for Naked Sunday --

I have made various styles of ales from cultured Chimay Red with great
success. In my opinion, my best beers have been made from the dregs of
Chimay, not with liquid yeasts that I have purchased. In fact, I made an all-
grain Belgian White beer with the yeast from a bottle of Chimay Red and I
think that it was my best homebrew yet.

>Speaking of Chimay -- I am
>culturing a Grand Reserve.  The yeast seems wispy in the bottom of the
>bottle not gooey as other cultures I have made --wispy as in when I swirl
>the bottle the yeast sediment wisps in the wort rather than staying put on
>the bottom or flowing in mass.  Is this ok?  I had a lager do this after
>several months in the bottle and those that did were sour (some bottles
>soured and some did not -- strange).  The Grand Reserve was so good and
>I would like a recipe, extract of course, to duplicate the experience.

Not to discourage you from trying, and I am no expert on extract recipes,
but I think that it is going to be fairly difficult to duplicate the splendid
complexity of Chimay Grande Reserve with an extract recipe. If you
succeed, please send me your recipe if you are not too busy accepting your
Homebrewer of the Year award for accomplishing such a feat.
- ----
>From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
>Subject: Posting of competition results

>Brewers,

>This is just a quick request/reminder to refrain from posting competition
>results in the HBD (we've been over this before).  We were doing well there
>for a while, but in recent weeks there's been a flood of competition-related
>postings that can only be of local/regional interest.  Perhaps the people
>who
>post these results could instead send a one-line message along the lines of
>"results are in, email me for a copy."  That way interested parties could>
>follow up on it, while the rest of us could just tune it out.

>Jay Lonner              8635660 at nessie.cc.wwu.edu              Bellingham,
>WA

I think that posting Competition results on the HBD is an asset to 
the readers. Often the winners of these competitions are contributors to
the HBD and it lends credibility to their comments and if I have a
question about a certain style, who better to ask than someone who
has won a competition with a beer in that particular style. After all,
they are homebrew competitions and this is the Homebrewers Digest.
- ------

<snip> Sorry, I lost the name of who posted this one.
>        Hoegaarden -
>        Does Forbidden Fruit use Curacao orange peel or just coriander?

When I toured the De Kluis Brouwerij (Hoegaarden) in Nov. '94, they stated
that there was no Curacao, or fruit for that matter, in Forbidden Fruit.


- --
      "Come my lad, and drink some beer!"
                                           Aaron Shaw
                                           Ottawa, Canada

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:44:38 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: All-grain costs, Star trek, etc.

Spencer Thomas of Ann Arbor:

> Russell Mast wrote about unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc: 
>  > Well, if you think you're time is worth less than $1.25 an hour, 
>  > it's worth it.
> 
> My "hobby" time is worth $0/hr, essentially.  That is, if I wasn't
> brewing, I still wouldn't get paid.  At least I'm doing something I
> enjoy.

Yeah, I should have been more clear.  Unless you brew on a massive scale, or 
are highly impoverished, cost is not, IMO, a good reason to brew full mash 
beers.  Mashing is fun, but at the same time takes big time commitment, and 
can be a big PITA.  Also, when you factor in equipment and so forth, the 
savings aren't real big.  The main reason I brew full mash is the taste and
variety you can't get with extract, the other reason is that it's fun.  The 
main reason I stuck with extracts for two years, and the best reason, IMO, to
stick to extracts for any amount of time, is the time and trouble involved in
mashing.  I think saving $5-20 on a batch of beer is pretty small potatoes.  
I've never brewed with potatoes of any size, but I have brewed with other 
unmalted adjuncts. 

Chris Geden :

> We are like the Borg; our collective wisdom goes
>considerably beyond its most visible manifestations.

I was wondering why I had these weird tubes in my helmet.  

Tom Puskar :

> Well, it has finally happened!  After about a dozen batches, I have succeeded
> in making my first batch of contaminated gushers.  I'm glad I got it over
> with early in my career!  My question is, what went wrong?

> 1.  The beer doesn't really taste that bad--is it safe to drink or should I
> dump it, scrub the hell out of the bottles and move on?

It might not be a contamination, it could be that your yeast took a nap on you
and fooled you into bottling before it was fully fermented.

Jim says:
> Jay says:
> 
> <This is just a quick request/reminder to refrain from posting competition
> <results in the HBD (we've been over this before).
> 
> I like it.  Skip over it if you dont. 

I agree with Jim and not Jay.

> Since he is a paid brewer, why should we give away recipes on some hard
> to make styles, so he can make money on em?

If I'm drinking my beers faster than I'm brewing/bottling, I appreciate being
able to find good commercial beers.  Of course, if he gave free beer in 
exchange for good recipes, well, nobody should complain then.  

> Shouldnt a pro brewer who wants this have to pay something for it?

Certainly if they're big, faceless corporations, but I don't think helping a 
"little guy" out for free is necessarily bad.  Maybe.  

 -R

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:46:07 -0400
From: MnMGuy at aol.com
Subject: Redundancy & "O2, Brute'?"

>Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
>  blah blah blah
>  blah blah blah.
>Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently
>ignored.

Isn't "silently ignored" redundant?

I have followed closely the discussion regarding bubbling O2 in wort to
increase the amount of oxygen for pitched yeast.  What's the benefit to such
an extreme?  Yeast count?  Why not just pitch a HUGE starter?

Charlie mentions in his "Companion" book that too much oxygen is a detriment.
 Does anyone have specific information on this?

> Although it would
>be impossible to measure, I would bet that each issue of HBD generates
>at least
> twice as much additional information that is passed privately.
>     Chris Geden
>     Brewer, Listener, Entomologist
>     Gainesville, FL

This is true.  As a newbie, I am pretty reluctant to post but I sent at least
one private e-mail comment every day to someone about something in the
digest.

Just my $.02.  Happy brewing!
Kevin 

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:50:56 -0400
From: MnMGuy at aol.com
Subject: My second post and Honey Wheat

>Applying a little common sense to the numbers, I'd throw out all of
>the
>contributors who've only posted once so far this year - someone who
>posts
>once every three months probably isn't carrying much of the
>information load
>of the digest.  

This is my second post, so you can't throw me out now, so NYEAH! :-P

I read the HBD daily with my first cup of coffee, word for word.  As a
newbie, I hesitate to give any information due to my inexperience.

I have about a dozen batches done now, and never used any finings except for
two kits which came with irish moss.  I only brew ales and I do not use a
secondary.  I use a carboy as a fermenter.  I travel often, and my ales often
sit in primary up to three weeks.  Every brew has been ------> Crystal
<-------- clear up to now.

I took a stab at making a VERY light honey wheat beer using 3# of wheat DME
(60% wheat, M&F brand, I think) and 2# of honey added at the end of the boil.
 I pitched about 1/2L of british ale yeast starter and fermention went fine.
 The beer began to settle, the top two inches cleared and then that was it!

Ten days later, still no settling.  No bubbles, either.  I wanted to get the
beer off the trub (coming up on three weeks) but did not want to rack without
active fermentation.  So I tried gelatin for the first time...

GREAT STUFF!  I dissolved one small packet  (about 2g, I would guess) of Knox
from the supermarket in warm water and tossed it in.  Dramatic improvement in
12 hours and two days later the carboy is BLACK with very clear beer.  She
goes into mini kegs tonight.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:43:52 -0600
From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org>
Subject: AOB E-mail outage.

If you have been trying to contact the AOB via e-mail and your mail vanished
without a trace, please try again now.  Our Internet access provider claims
that the problem has been fixed.

 - shawn

Shawn Steele
Information Systems Administrator
Association of Brewers                (303) 447-0816 x 118   (voice)
736 Pearl Street                      (303) 447-2825         (fax)
PO Box 1679                           shawn at aob.org          (e-mail)
Boulder, CO  80306-1679               info at aob.org           (aob info)
U.S.A.                                http://www.aob.org/aob (web)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 10:00 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: indoor use of propane

> will travel to the lowest part of the house. If you have a sump
> pump for example, it will find it and sit there. Now, let's say that
> you brew once a week: a small leak (say 0.5 cuft) per brew. Four
> weeks later it rains heavily, sump pump turns on and BOOM
> house is gone!
 
Huh?  My sump is completely submersed at both the beginning
and end of cycle.  In the remote chance that the sump were
exposed to air, just how does a sealed electric motor ignite a
combustible gas?  I think a more probable ignition point would be
a water heater or furnace.  But anyway.
 
Since it appears that we're steering towards the Straits of Momily,
a testimonial is required.  I've been brewing indoors with two 35,000
BTU propane burners for 8 years now.  I haven't been overtaken
by monoxide fumes nor has my house blown up.  When needed I open a
window for ventilation.  Long-term propane tank storage is outdoors.
 
The last time I looked the Bible didnt have anything to say about 
the indoor use of propane.  In other words, when using any highly 
combustible material indoors the liberal application of caution and 
common sense is required.
 

chris campanelli
akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:08:19 -0400
From: "Bardsley, Phil" <phil.cpc at mhs.unc.edu>
Subject: Contacts in Munich?

A German friend of mine is moving to Munich later this month.  She's 
never brewed, but I've convinced her to give it a try.  She'd like to 
meet brewers and find out where to get supplies.  Please reply privately 
to:  phil_bardsley at unc.edu
Thanks.  (Phil Bardsley, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill)


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:59:06 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Announcing UK Homebrew email list


        This posting is to announce the creation of a UK-oriented Homebrew 
discussion list.

        This list was created after various UK Homebrewers had expressed 
concern that r.c.b and HBD were difficult forums to use when seeking help, 
advice and information on UK-specific aspects of Homebrewing. The number of UK 
Homebrewers that have Internet access is relatively small and it was found that 
it was often difficult to find anybody that could help on UK-specific matters. 
As a result, I have created an Email discussion list that is dedicated to UK 
issues.

        The list is open to all those interested in UK Homebrewing whether they 
are UK residents or not. It is not meant as an area for discussion of general 
Homebrewing issues - r.c.b or HBD are accepted as being the established areas 
for this and should continue to be so.

        To subscribe to the list, send a message to...

                uk-homebrew-request@ rhbnc.ac.uk

        ...with the word SUBSCRIBE in the message BODY. No subject heading is 
needed. Your subscription should be handled automatically by our List Server 
and you should be informed of a successful (or unsuccessful) subscription.

        Once subscribed you should start receiving any list messages as they 
arrive. To submit messages to the list, address them to...

                uk-homebrew at rhbnc.ac.uk

        ...(please note NO "-request" on the end). When the List Server 
receives a message it is automatically copied to all subscribers immediately 
and not compiled into digest form as with HBD.

PLEASE NOTE - our site does NOT provide List Server services as a general rule 
 - please don't hassle us about this sort of service - thanks.

        If anybody has any problems with subscribing or would like further 
information on the list then I can be contacted at...

                B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk

Cheers,
        Brian Gowland


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:55:44 -0700
From: schaubee at ucs.orst.edu (Eric Schauber)
Subject: Re: Is lager still good

>Gary J. Dubovik writes:
>
>Date: 04 Apr 1995 09:18:17 -0500 (EST)
>From: DUBOVIK at hsdwl.utc.com
>Subject: Is lager still good?
>
>I brewed a lager (extract) with Wyeast liquid least. After about a week
>of very nice fermenting in the primary (at about 65 deg F), I transfered
>it over to the secondary (at about 50 deg F). Well, due to work, and
>projects (all the wife's) around the house, over 2 months has passed
>and it's still in there. Is it still good ("Lagering" at 50 deg) for 2
>months, or is it tree fertilizer. If it's still good, should I get my ass
>in gear and bottle now (and do I need to add more yeast).

I suspect that your brew will be fine and that you probably won't need to
add more yeast.  Many lager brewers let theirs sit for considerably longer
than 2 months.  However, your fermentation temperature makes this brew a
Steam Beer, not a Lager.  I like 'em both, and pay less attention to style
than to my own enjoyment.  Bottle it and savor it after each
around-the-house project!

Eric Schauber
"It felt sacreligious to watch an Irish Band at a pub that didn't serve
Guiness" - My sister


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:05:22 -0400
From: LPCALC at aol.com
Subject: Single infusion & Mash out

This is my first post to HBD, but of course, I've been reading and absorbing
the info for sometime.
I use a 10 gallon cylindrical "Gatoraid" cooler fitted with copper tubing and
a ball valve for a mash and lauter tun.  In order to raise the temp to mash
out (ususally 168F), I usually remove about 1-1.5 gallons of water from the
sparge water tank, bring it to a boil and add it to the mash tun to raise the
temp. I then recirculate untill clear about 3-10 minutes. then sparge with
treated 168F water. 
I'm I dilluting the mash too much by this procedure? 
Is the mash out really neccesary?
Is there a better way to achieve mash out with this (picnic cooler) type of
 setup


Cheers


Larry

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 95 12:39:49 EST
From: "Crake_Kurtis_LT" <Crake_Kurtis_LT at hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Fermentation: All-grain vs. Extract

     I've recently transitioned from extract brewing to all-grain, and now 
     find that I have a couple of questions that I can't find answers for 
     in the standard references.
     
     First, the krausen resulting from fermenting my all-grain beers seems 
     to be larger (i.e., more volume), and longer lasting than extract 
     beers I've made with similar O.G.'s.  I take this to be a positive 
     sign, and due to starting with a wort that is richer in yeast 
     nutrients (FAN, phospolipids, etc), dextrins, head-retaining proteins 
     (whether they are being "used up" or not), and probably more cold trub 
     in the fermenter being lifted to the top by CO2 evolution.  Or it 
     could be my imagination.  Is it typical to have noticibly improved 
     ferments from all-grain worts?
     
     Second, both all-grain batches I've made have developed a sticky, 
     gooey sort of layer on top of the krausen foam after about the third 
     day of fermentation.  This layer has a different color than the 
     original krausen, and literally sits on top of it.  I noticed this 
     with my first all-grain batch, did some reading, and concluded that I 
     had gotten an infection of either Pediococcus or Lactobacillus.  It 
     was painful, but I dumped my first all-grain batch, and then sanitized 
     the bejeezus out of everything that wort, yeast or beer had touched.  
     Now, my second batch has developed the same look, even though I 
     sanitized thoroughly and used a different yeast.  This morning, I 
     skimmed off the goop, noted again that it was sitting on top of 
     regular looking foam, and racked the beer to a secondary from under 
     the remaining foam/goop.  I took a s.g. reading, and it's only at 
     1.010 from an OG of 1.050, so there's work yet to be done.  It did not 
     smell "yeasty" like it had during the most active fermentation, but it 
     didn't smell like cooked vegetables, either.  I tasted the sample 
     after measuring the s.g., and there was no obvious problem, but I 
     don't claim to be a calibrated taster of half-finished fermenting 
     wort.  These indications do not match what I consider to be "normal" 
     based on my extract-brewing experience, but I'm not sure what to make 
     of them.  Is this an infection?  If it is, how did it "overtake" the 
     fermentation after three days?
     
     In either case, I'm not dumping this batch.  It was intended to be a 
     weizen, so if I've gotten a lactic infection, I'll see how it turns 
     out, and tell everyone it's a wit if necessary :) !
     
     Brewfully, and perhaps ruefully,
     
     Kurt Crake


Return to table of contents


Date: 05 Apr 95 09:24:00 -0000
From: Gordon.Mckeever at jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: More Qwerstions


- --JPLxxxccMailxxxSMTPxxxID3206gc46x
Content-Type: Text/Plain; CharSet=US-ASCII
Content-Description: Text_1


     Hello Beer People:

     I have heard references to magazines called 'Zymurgy' and 'Brewing
     Techniques(?)'. How good are these mags? Which is better? What is the
     frequency of publication? How much is a subscription and what are
     phone numbers to call for subscription? whew, and I wrote all that
     without taking a breath.

     Also, a couple quick questions about using gelatin instead of Irish
     Moss. When do you put it in? During the boil? After the boil? And if a
     person was using a Fermentap rig, wouldn't the yeast jello gunk up the
     trub tube?

     Thanks to everybody who offered suggestions and comforting words on my
     stuck fermentation. I bottled it Monday and it didn't taste too
     wretched (considering it was warm and flat). But if you see an
     'unsubscribe' message from me in the next couple of weeks you can
     deduce that it was truly awful and I will have a bunch of brewing
     stuff for sale cheap.

                                Gordo
- --JPLxxxccMailxxxSMTPxxxID3206gc46x--

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:13:36 -0400
From: claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil
Subject: Siphon solution (?)

Howdy all,
 
Dan Pack <danpack at grape-ape.che.caltech.edu> and others have been having
trouble with keeping the siphon going while siphoning form the kettle to the
primary.

I have been trying the siphon method to help eliminate trub in the primary and
chill haze from my beers and have not had much luck either.  One batch ago I
made a bitter using M&F DME, 40L crystal malt, Goldings hop plugs as well as
the usual 1 tbs. of irish moss for 15 min.  I whirlpooled and used a hop bag
around my racking cane and was able to get most of the wort before the break
plugged the system up (I have a 20 qt. SS pot and use an immersion chiller). 
I got out my sauce pan and got as much wort as possible without pulling too
much break material into the carboy but I left too much wort behind IMHO :-(. 
The beer was very clear so I was encouraged.  My last batch was a porter using
M&F DME, 60L crystal, roasted and chocolate malts, N. Brewer whole and
Goldings plugs and 1 tbs. irish moss the last 15 min.  This time I whirlpooled
with a block of wood under the corner of the kettle and this time used a
copper scrubby along with the hop sack.  This time I only got half way through
before the whole mess plugged up and I was forced to do the rest of the batch
with the sauce pan and strainer (ala Papazian).  It was bottled this past
weekend so I don't know what the haze status is on this one.  I don't know if
I get more break than the average guy but I can't imagine an EASYMASHER (tm)
type device would work any better.

I was going to make a siphon ring (ala Jeff Frane and Spencer Thomas) but have
decided to wait until I get a 7 or 10 gal SS pot (any good sources out there?)
and go all-grain (soon hopefully) before investing the time and effort in
drilling a zillion holes in the copper 3/8" copper tubing.  I have been
thinking of alternative and thought I'd throw it out for comment/criticism.

Iteration 1: (sorry, no ascii art).

Cut the top and bottom from a large soup can. Cut it length wise and open it
up to a half circle.  Bend the ends to the same radius as the pot and drill a
bunch of 1/16" holes in to facilitate seepage.  Whirlpool as before
with a block of wood under the side and put this in on the high side, (already
sanitized) just before racking and lower the pot to rack.  This would make a
pocket for the racking cane and copper scrubby and hopefully keep the majority
of break material out and therefore not clog up the cane. 

Iteration 2:

If it works, find some SS screen or perforated SS sheet metal and use it
instead of the can. 

** Local Interest Warning **

I'd like to hear from some of the Ann Arbor brewers to find out where they get
their supplies.  I've tried mailing Spencer but my mailer won't accept "."'s
in the name.  My folks and in-laws live there so am in there quite often and
am always looking for good sources of brewing materials (I already know about
Merchant of Vino  at  the Plymouth mall).

Cheers,

Joe Clayton
Farmington Hills, MI

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Apr 95 13:25:24 EST
From: "Crake_Kurtis_LT" <Crake_Kurtis_LT at hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Ingredients for Belgian White

     My wife wants to brew an all-grain Belgian White, and she's having 
     some difficulty finding a source for bitter orange peel.  She has 
     tried contacting a company that frequently advertises in _Brewing 
     Techniques_ (Frozen Wort), but has only managed to reach their 
     answering machine.
     
     Could those of you who have attempted this style provide any 
     information on sources for bitter (or Curacao) orange peel, or use of 
     alternates (I've heard use of tangerine peel mentioned)?  Any sources 
     local to Northern VA/MD/DC would be most helpful.
     
     Private e-mail would be fine, or post to the digest if you feel that 
     this is of sufficient interest.  I'll post a summary if response 
     warrants.
     
     TIA,
     
     Kurt Crake
     Crake_Kurtis_LT at hq.navsea.navy.mil    -or- 
     KCrake at aol.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:03:52 -0400
From: cerevis at panix.com (Christopher P. Weirup)
Subject: Indoor cookers & broken e-mail


A few quick things:

There has been much bandwidth of late about OUTDOOR propane cookers and the
like.  My question is, is there any INDOOR cookers that are available.  I
live in an apartment, and finding space outside to do full boils is just
not feasible.  I don't think that my gas range in the kitchen is quite up
to the job.  If anyone has any info about this, e-mail me, or post it in
the digest if you think that there is enough interest.  Thanks in advance!

Thanks for everyone's patience with the Gott digest, as well.  I hope that
everyone who requested a copy did indeed get it.  My set-up is just about
ready now.  As soon as I can figure out how to do full boils, I'll be ready
to take a stab at all-grain.

Apologies to everyone else but if L. Claypool is reading this, could you
please send me a new e-mail address?  I've tried to send you the Gott
digest to the address you sent me (the citynet.net address I believe) and
they all come back.  Sorry for the inconvenience.



Chris Weirup
cerevis at panix.com



Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1700, 04/07/95