FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Water chem question (David Draper)
  Yet another beer and brewing web page! (Rich Lenihan)
  Full Sail IPA - Hops (Tom Lahue)
  Trub removal ect. (DSWPHOTO)
  Rcpt: Homebrew Digest #1705 (Ap (NEEVES)
  Lactose uses (David Draper)
  plastic carboy: using it? (mark evans)
  Mesh screen false bottoms/more on apt brewing (MHANSEN)
  Yeast starters again - what's second best? (James L Blue)
  Re: Electric stovetop brewing (sadvary)
  Malt Variety vs. FG (RPB3)
  02 caps, diacetyl, steeped hops (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
  Champagne yeast (Pierre Jelenc)
  Hg thread (Lance Stronk)
  thermal expansion of water (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
  Dial Thermometers/Tall Women (RHELGESON)
  Re: SABCO Kettle (spencer)
  Cleaning Boiling Kettles (Willits)
  Recipe request for Pete's Wicked (Jeff M Myers)
  Re: High finishing gravitites (John Keane)
  Steeping Grains Summary (Michael_Millstone-P26948)
  beerstone, grain summary (Jim Dipalma)
  Alum. Keg/Beer Fests ("Mark Merchant")
  corny under pressure ("CHRIS DUFTON")
  NA Beer (John Francis)
  Thermal expansion of water ("Tom Williams")
  Stove cleanup (John Keane)
  Copper Connections (Glenn Raudins)
  Mesh screen false bottoms/more on apt brewing (MHANSEN)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 08:00:11 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: Water chem question

Dear Friends, I have a question for you water chemistry folks.  I've just
read in Miller that one should never add both gypsum (CaSO4.2H2O) and
table salt (NaCl) to the same mash because the interaction of sodium and
sulfate will impart an unpleasant harshness to the finished beer.  Of
course, in the beer I brewed last week, a K"olsch, I did precisely that. 
Sydney water is exceptionally soft (e.g. total dissolved solids 86 ppm;
7.8 ppm Ca++, 11.4 ppm Na+, 21 ppm Cl-, 6.5 ppm SO4--, alk. 21 ppm as
CaCO3) as I've reported before, and additions of all salts are required if
one wishes to mimic a water for anything other than pilsner.  Using the
data reported not long ago by Bob Bloodworth for K"oln's water, I dosed my
mash water with gypsum, CaCO3, and NaCl in appropriate amounts to get a
close-enough-for-brewing-purposes match to that profile.  The beer is just
finishing up primary fermentation, so it's too soon to tell if this will
in fact cause any problems.  My question is not Is My Beer Ruined, but: 
how do brewers with soft water emulate profiles like this if they are
"forbidden" to add gypsum and table salt together?  Why don't K"olsch
beers, for example, exhibit the unpleasant harshness of having both Na and
SO4 present in appreciable amounts?  Many of the cities in the summary I
posted awhile back have a fair amount of both. Any comments welcome--I'd
like to brew an Alt this week, and again would need to add both gypsum and
table salt (in lesser amounts of course) to get something like
D"usseldorf's water. 

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Cross your fingers and wait it out." ---A. J. deLange
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....

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Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 19:59:06 -0400
From: rich at lenihan.iii.net (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: Yet another beer and brewing web page!

I've set up a web page with information beer and brewing books. The URL is:

http://www.iii.net/users/rich/libeery/libeery.html

This web page includes the title, author, publisher and retail price of most
of the currently in-print and generally available books on beer and brewing.
The most interesting part (for me, anyway) is that I've included a form where
you can submit book reviews for these texts. You can also, of course, read
all or any of the reviews that have been submitted. Right now it's kind of 
sparse, with just one review that I submitted.

Please check it out and let me know what you think. Thanks...

 -Rich
 


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Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 17:22:47 -0700
From: ai752 at lafn.org (Tom Lahue)
Subject: Full Sail IPA - Hops



I recently had a pint of Full Sail IPA and would like to try to duplicate 
the hop flavor and bittering.  Anyone in Oregon or Washington know any 
info on how this beer is hopped?

Thanks,
Tom


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Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 22:34:16 -0400
From: DSWPHOTO at aol.com
Subject: Trub removal ect.

Well, this is my first posting to HBD and I hope it pays off. I have a few
questions for the brew-gurus. They are as follows; I'm looking for a good way
to remove trub either from my boiling kettle or my settling tank. Miller
recommends letting the wort settle for 12 hours after pitching then removing
the trub. My problem is that after 12 hours the trub has not settled and my
wort is in full fermentation. Can I let the wort settle, remove trub, them
pitch the yeast? It seems a long time to wait before pitching. 

Papazian says that you can remove trub by siphoning off the hot wort with a
copper racking tube and scouring pad from the boiler to the fermenter (or
back to the kettle for a quick boil for sanatizing). I have tried this with
out success. I am only boiling 2.5-3 gallons in my kettle and the wort is
just a little to thick to siphon. Does this only work with a full wort boil?

Let me know if anybody in the Brew world has a tried and true method for trub
removal. I would like to begin partial or all grain brews and want a good
trub removal system before I take the plunge. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!  

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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 07:36
From: NEEVES at mailgate.navsses.navy.mil (NEEVES)
Subject: Rcpt: Homebrew Digest #1705 (Ap

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 21:49:24 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: Lactose uses

Dear Friends, Jim Powell asks about using lactose.  Well Jim, the best use
is in dark, sweet beers--sweet stouts being the classic example. 
So-called "milk stout" was so called because of a generous use of lactose. 
Because it is not readily fermentable the sweetness it gives pretty much
survives into the finished product.  So you will probably want to use it
sparingly--a couple hundred grams (up to 8 oz) in 23-litre (up to 6 US
gal) batches is as much as I have used.  Also you must be very careful
about sanitation when using it--although basically unfermentable by
brewing yeast, it is very fermentable by other critters, so be sure the
stuff is boiled in some way (adding it to the boil is the simplest,
although sometimes adding it at pitching time has benefits).  You can also
add a bit of lactose to anything that you wish to have some residual
sweetness, although to do this I would prefer to simply design the batch
so that it arrives at a final gravity that gives it the appropriate MFI
(mouth feel index). Say, oh, 2.34354233432 or so.  Approximately. :-}

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Never trust a brewer who has only one chin" ---Aidan Heerdegen
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 07:41:17 -0600
From: mark evans<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu>
Subject: plastic carboy: using it?

I received a plastic carboy from a friend.  It says it was used to hold
water. Aside from the scratching problem, are these okay for say..secondary
use?

mark



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Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 13:50:07 -0600
From: MHANSEN at ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject:  Mesh screen false bottoms/more on apt brewing

Hey All,

Al K. states that using a mesh screen as a false bottom probably won't
work and if it did it would require gallons and gallons of recirculation to
form a filter bed. I must disagree with you Al. I use a mesh screen
(actually it's a SS inverted flour sifter) for my false bottom and it works
very well. I usually recirculate about a half gallon or at most a gallon for
_very_ turbid mashes to get clear runoff.

Steve Seaney asks about apartment brewing. Well, as someone who
has always done all-grainers inside, it can be done (since I don't have a
balcony, I don't have a choice). I mash and boil in a 33 qt enamel-on-steel
pot. During mashing I insulate with several towels which holds temps up
pretty well. My sparge water is held in a 7.5 gallon plastic bucket
insulated with silver lined bubble wrap. My lauter tun is also an insulated
7.5 gallon plastic bucket with a mesh screen false bottom. I only do ales
in my apartment since I don't have temperature control cool enough for
lagers. I concede that boiling for 60-90 minutes inside an apartment (or a
house for that matter) does get pretty steamy. 

As has been echoed by a number of people, the more messes you make
and things you destroy, the more likely your wife will send you packing
(to the basement or garage, hopefully :-)) with the equipment you desire.
After scorching the counter top, spilling bleach on an area rug, losing
half a gallon of wort on the dining room carpet, frequent noxious odors
(in her opinion) from brewing and fermenting, and a host of other
mishaps, my wife MADE me design a custom brewery for the basement
in the house we are building (which will require a bunch of new
equipment, of course!). What a shame to never be able to brew in the
kitchen again :-)!

Brew on my friends,
Mike  (michael-d-hansen at uiowa.edu)
Don't smoke grains; It makes you cough.



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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 08:58:08 -0400
From: blue at cam.nist.gov (James L Blue)
Subject: Yeast starters again - what's second best?

I've followed the thread on yeast starters and the advice to pitch just
after krauesen falls. But what's next best?

True-life example. Last week I prepared to brew porter.
Wednesday evening: pop fresh packet of Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale yeast
Thursday evening: make 2 quart starter of 1.040 wort
Saturday evening: krauesen fallen, ready to pitch

But my plans had changed and there was nothing to pitch it into; brew
day had been postponed until Sunday. Two obvious options presented 
themselves:
	1. Do nothing to the starter, pitch the next day anyway.
	2. Boil up "some" more dry malt extract, cool, and feed the starter.
(I don't know how much "some" should be for a 24-hour delay.)

Advice?

Rest of true-life story. I did #1. Brewed on Sunday (my first all-grain
batch), aerated the wort vigorously, pitched 1.5 quarts of starter,
saving the rest for feeding and using later. Got positive pressure in the
air lock by 3 hours after pitching, went to bed, had full 1/2 inch
krauesen this morning, 11 hours after pitching.
- --------
Jim Blue

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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 09:17:06 -0400
From: sadvary at netmon.dickinson.edu
Subject: Re: Electric stovetop brewing


Personally, I haven't had any major problems with electic.  I have a 33 quart
enamelware pot  and I straddle it on two burners, mostly on the big one in the
back and in the front it almost covers the smaller burner.  I haven't had any
carmelization problems and I do get a nice rolling boil.  I have learned to 
fine tune the boil by using the lid, using the burner controls can get a
little harry at times.  That was a little troublesome at first but once you
get used to the controls it's not bad.

The downside is that the burners do go through some abuse and I can see in a
couple years having to replace the burners.  No biggy.

just my two cents worth...

 -Bill Sadvary
 Carlisle, PA

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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 08:28:01 CDT
From: RPB3%mimi at magic.itg.ti.com
Subject: Malt Variety vs. FG

From: RUSSELL P. BRODEUR         RPB3
 
Subj: Malt Variety vs. FG
 
I have been using the 40/60/70 C mash schedule recommended by Dr. Fix for
the past six months or so, and I would like to share my observations after
brewing a variety of beers using this technique.
 
My first brew was a Scottish-style ale; OG ~65, FG ~22.  I used 5# of dWC
Special B in this, with the balance being dWC PA malt, so the high FG didn't
worry me.  I don't recall which yeast I used, but it was either Wyeast Labs'
Scottish, Irish or London strain.  BTW, these are 10 gal batches.
 
My second brew was a Munich-style dark lager.  I used 18# dWC Pils and 2#
dWC Special B (I don't recommend this for use in lagers).  My OG was in the
mid 50's, but my FG was once again 22.
 
Changing the subject for a moment:  I used both Wyeast's Munich and Bavarian
lager yeasts for this (it was a test, 5 gal of each).  Fermentation was at
48-50 F.  IMHO, there was no discernable difference between the two yeasts.
Of course, I had the strong-flavored special B in there, which probably
masked any subtle differences.  Both yeasts finished at the same gravity,
22.
 
My third batch was a weizen, 12# dWC wheat malt/6# Schreier 2-row.  Again,
this finished on the high side (I used Wyeast's pure delbrucki [sp?] strain)
with an FG of ~20.  One important point I'd like to make is; this stuff
really needed a protein rest at 50 F.  I didn't use one and had runoff woes.
 
I had been getting lower FG's using a 2-step infusion (122, 150-56 F), so I
decided to experiment a bit to bring my FG's down.  I increased the temp of
my 2nd rest to 145 F (63 C).  I brewed a light Munich-style lager using 17#
dWC pils and 1# dWC CaraPils, using Munich lager yeast.  Same FG (~22).
BTW, I expect to get below 15 for a lager like this.
 
I brewed a domestic bastardization of pilsner (I was out of dWC pils, and
used Schreier instead) using 17# 2-row and 1# CaraPils with Munich lager
yeast.  I increased my rest time at 145 F to 45 min.  This time, my FG was
10, a whopping difference.
 
Thinking I had figured things out, I brewed an IPA using 14# dWC PA, 2#
toasted and 2# CaraMunich malts with London ale yeast (Wyeast).  I used the
45 min rest at 145 F again, but my FG was back up to 20.  Go figure.
 
Obviously, this has NOT been a controlled study; I have just been trying to
get my FG's down doing what made sense to me (increasing time/temp of alpha?
amylase rest step at 140-50 F).
 
All beers made using this technique have been excellent, IMHO.  I believe
the IPA, Scottish ale and pilsner to be the best I've ever brewed, and that
covers the past 5 years or so.  So, something is definitely right about this
mash schedule, but why do I continually get such high FG's with the dWC
malts?  There was a huge diff between dWC and Schreier (10 pts), and I still
haven't figured out how to reduce the FG using the dWC malts.
 
I would appreciate any suggestions.
 
Russ Brodeur  (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com)

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Date: 15 May 95 10:21:41 EDT
From: Christopher.R.Vyhnal at Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
Subject: 02 caps, diacetyl, steeped hops

in hbd#1729 al writes:

>> Your local HB shop owner has it backwards: boiling O2-absorbing caps ruins
them.  The humidity in the headspace of the bottle is enough to activate the O2
absorption. <<

if this is the case, it seems to me that their absorption capability would
decrease the longer they sit around before being used.  is this a problem, and
if so, is there a way to purge the absorbed 02 prior to using?

and also:

>> There's quite a difference between letting air into the headspace and
stirring air into
the fermenting beer (the latter increasing diacetyl production). <<

i'd like to up the diacetyl a bit in my next attempt at a fuller's clone. 
what's the best way to stir air into the ferment if i use a glass primary?

in hbd#1730 david asked about steeped hops in an snpa clone:

there probably is some minimal bitterness contribution from hops steeped 15
minutes, but your low extraction (23 pts/ib/gal) would also lead to a greater
perceived bitterness in the finished beer if the recipe was based on a higher
extraction efficiency.

chris

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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 10:28:24 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Champagne yeast

First a new data point for the yeast farmers: I have just revived on plate
champagne yeast (Red Star?) from a stab that had been inoculated in 10/92,
some 30 months ago. The stab was in a standard YPD slant (0.7% agar) in a
screw-cap glass tube kept in the vegetable bin of the fridge. 

Yeasts are hardy critters indeed.

Now a question: I need to make a very large starter, for a high-gravity
mead. To that effect, I will use the champagne yeast to brew 3 gallons of
ordinary 1.040 wort and use the resulting yeast cake. Does anybody know
(from experience) whether it is worth saving such a beer?

Pierre

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Date: 15 May 1995 10:34:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Lance Stronk <S29033%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: Hg thread

I was reading the Hg thread and it appears there are different opinions on the
subject of toxicity of mercury.  I myself am confused on the subject.  
We have an oral mercury thermometer at home and one day, as I was taking my
temperature (feeling lousy of course and frustrated with being sick) I read the
little paper/pamphlet that came with the thermometer.  It stated that if the
thermometer broke in the mouth that the glass and mercury could be flushed out
with water(spitting the pieces out might cut the person so flushing with water
was recommended).  It also stated that there should be no fear of mercury
poisoning since the mercury was "triple distilled mercury" and could not be
absorbed through the skin.  I never heard of "triple distilled mercury" and
have asked others about it only to get some disbelieving looks.
  
So, I put it to the experts/alchemists/chemists-brewers of the HBD.  Is there
such a thing as 'safe' mercury???  And what's up with the triple distilled
stuff?

Lance Stronk
Sikorsky Aircraft, Stratford, CT
lstronk at sikorsky.com

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Date: 15 May 95 10:35:19 EDT
From: Christopher.R.Vyhnal at Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
Subject: thermal expansion of water

in hbd#1731 dan asked about the thermal expansion of water:

i just happened to have this at my fingertips while reading your post:

at 1 atm:

Tdeg.C				V H2O (cm3/g)

0						1.00013
10					1.00027
20					1.00177
30					1.00434
40					1.00781
50					1.01208
60					1.01706
70					1.02271
80					1.02900
90					1.0359
100				1.0434

from:  Kennedy and Holser, PVT and phase relations of H20 and CO2, in Handbook
of Physical Constants, Clark ed.1966.

i'll leave it to you to pick a curve fit if you want an equation.

chris

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 9:40:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: RHELGESON at MADMAX.MPR.ORG
Subject: Dial Thermometers/Tall Women



Hello Fellow Brewers!

Know that female brewers DO exist.  I suspect there are more of us than
you all might suspect!  I have to suppose that physical strength is one
limiting factor for us women, though.  My husband and I brew together in
our basement.  One night, quite late, Don was swirling a carboy half full
of a bleach mixture when it accidently struck the cement laundry tub.  It
shattered, cutting a deep gouge in the base of his thumb.  Once we got the
bleeding controlled, he drove himself to the emergency room and I was left
to sterilize our second carboy and transfer the wort.  Now, I am no
delicate flower, but lifting that full carboy out of the sink and
"walking" it to the next room took *ALL* of my strength!  (Don's thumb was
good and sterile and took three stitches)


> Lee Bollard asked about dial thermometers...

We've been using a compost thermometer for a couple of years with great
success.  It looks like an oversized meat thermometer with a 19" stem and
registers 0-220 degrees F.  Priced $12-$17


And, in my self-important view...

I often see submissions to the HBD where people are apologizing for being
"only an extract brewer"!  I see this same phenomenon at our local
brewclub meetings. There is no need to feel inferior! There are GREAT
beers to be made using extracts - and at a considerable time savings too.
We may not have as many variables to fuss over as all-grain brewers but I,
for one, am STANDING TALL!!  

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ruth Helgeson
Minnesota Public Radio



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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 10:43:13 EDT
From: spencer at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: SABCO Kettle

Jim Hunter wrote about a number of problems with a SABCO kettle a
friend of his bought.

If you're considering forking out for a SABCO kettle, you might also
take a look at the pico-Brewing Systems kettles.  I believe the price
is similar, and they are (IMHO) better constructed.  In particular,
they have none of the problems that Jim alluded to.  The false bottom
is slotted copper and is very sturdy.  I've made a batch in one with
25 lbs of grain, and friends have filled it to the brim with grain,
with no problems.

For info, call 313-482-8565, or send e-mail to obrien at cyberspace.org.

Caveat: the owners are personal friends, but I have no financial stake
in the company.

Interesting note: "pico" started out buying reconditioned kegs from
SABCO (may still do, for all I know).  Shortly after the pico-System
went on the market, SABCO started selling their own.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 07:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Willits <willits at camelot.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Cleaning Boiling Kettles

Hi,

	In HBD #1731 Ron Moucka asks:

>On an unrelated subject, the converted (legal) keg I've been
>using as a brew pot is developing a brown coating on the
>bottom that is next to impossible to scrub off.  I'm not against
>using a little elbow grease, but this stuff is really tuff.
>Any suggestions on something to use that doesn't require
>rubber suits and special training?

I found a Stainless Steel cleaner in the cleaning section at the grocery 
store called Kleen King.  It works great.  All I do is sprinkle a little 
in the bottom of the kettle, add a little water, and scrub lightly with 
a scotchbrite pad.  And the bottle says it is non-toxic.  I hope this 
helps.                               

Mike Willits
willits at camelot.stanford.edu

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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 10:06 EST
From: Jeff M Myers <0005507100 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Recipe request for Pete's Wicked

    Does anyone have a good recipe for Pete,s Wicked Ale? 
    I am an extract brewer.

Private email is great.  
Thanks in advance


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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 11:17:36 -0400
From: John Keane <keane at cs.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Re: High finishing gravitites

In HBD#1731, " Beersgood" writes:

>  I am new at this but am having a problem that my local supplier doesn't seem
>  to be able to answer. I've brewed 7 batches of beer so far, all have ended at
>  least 1.015 with most of them at 1.020. I know that this in itself isn't
>  impossible but these beers includes recipes that state an ending gravity of
>  1.005 or 4 from Charlie's book.
>  
>  One particular brew that I had go bad and am now in the process of trying
>  again is a modification of "Righteous Real Ale" from Charlie. I used 6 lbs.
>  of Amber dried malt and some hops that shouldn't (I think) affect anything.
>  The first time it started at 1.039 fermented vigorously for less than 24
>  hours and stopped at 1.031. I added yeast nutrient - nothing. I re-pitched
>  with a dry yeast starter - nothing. It sat in the fermenting bucket until it
>  smelled bad - about 2 1/2 weeks.
>  
>  This time I used the same recipe but added a little bit of yeast nutrient
>  right before I pitched the yeast. Beggining gravity was 1.040. Also I used
>  two packages of dry yeast instead of one. It fermented vigorously for less
>  than 24 hours. I measured today, the fifth day, for the first time. It is at
>  1.030. This time I took off the air-lock and sloshed the wort around for a
>  while then put the airlock back on. I got that idea from Homebrew Digest
>  somewhere but I don't know if it was right or not. My supplier didn't like
>  the idea. (He is a good guy, he felt so bad that the first batch went bad
>  that he split the loss with me! I)
>  
>  My feeling is that the ending gravities should be lower, at least closer to
>  what the recipe calls for. Any ideas?

I had exactly this problem with many of my first batches of beer --
rapid, vigorous fermentation for a short interval, followed by a high
terminal gravity.  The owner of the local homebrew supply was
similarly clueless, but thanks to the collective wisdom of the HBD I
was able to determine the cause of the problem: underpitching of yeast
into poorly-aerated wort.  Yeast nutrients probably will *not* make a
difference, if you are brewing an all-malt beer.  Addressing the
problem is simple: first, *always* make a starter at least 24 hours in
advance.  It takes only a few minutes -- boil up 4 oz. of DME in a
quart of water with a couple of hop pellets, chill by immersion in
cold water, pitch yeast in a sanitized container and fit with an
airlock.  Do it even if you're using dry yeast.

Second, simply splashing the wort as you transfer it to the fermenter,
or even "sloshing" the wort around in the fermenter (though better
than nothing) may not sufficiently aerate your wort.  A really simple,
useful, and cheap device that you can make to solve the problem is an
"aeration cane".  Take a length of rigid plastic tubing and poke 5-10
holes in it with a heated needle.  Affix it to the end of the hose you
use to rack your wort from the kettle to the fermenter.  (If you are
using a siphon, obviously you will have to start the siphon before
affixing the aeration cane.)  When the wort passes through it, air
will be sucked in through the little holes, filling your wort with
millions of tiny bubbles.  It should cost you $1.00 or less, it adds
no extra time or effort to the brewing process, and works much better
than splashing or sloshing (IMHO).  The best and most expensive
solution to wort aeration is probably an air pump and a stainless (or
similar) airstone, but I'm satisfied with the lower-tech approach.

Since I started doing these things, "stuck" fermentations have become
a thing of the past.  Give it a try!

By the way, you can probably save the current batch by making up a
fresh yeast starter (as above), racking the beer through the aeration
cane, and re-pitching.  Unless it's already infected, it should take
off again and ferment out nicely.  Good luck!

_Jack_

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Date: 15 May 95 08:39:00 -0500
From: Michael_Millstone-P26948 at email.mot.com
Subject: Steeping Grains Summary

     Last week I asked for definitions of steeping grains.  Since there was 
     quite a variety of responses, here is the summary:
     
     1. If you heat your grains above 170, you risk extracting tannins and 
     polyphenols from the husks.  These can give a harsh, astringent, 
     and/or phenolic flavor/feel to your beer.
     
     2. If you steep your specialty grains until the water just starts to 
     boil, you run the risk of leeching out some of the tannins and 
     phenolics from the grain husks, which will result in a bitter, 
     astringent tasting beer. <snip> I add 2 gal. cold water to the grains 
     and slowly bring the temperature up to 160F and hold it there for half 
     an hour; then pull out the grains.  160F is used in that it is fairly 
     close to the temperature that all-grainers mash at (150-158), and they 
     seem to have maximized the extraction of sugars from malted barley.
     
     3.  The implications of adding grains to cold water, waiting for the 
     water to boil, then straining out is that you probably have no idea 
     what happened to the grains.  The best compromise is to steep your 
     grains around 150-160 in another pot, usually for around 30-40 
     minutes.  Then you can strain your wort produced out and maybe add 
     some more warm water to sparge the grains and get more wort out of 
     them.  This actually performs a mini-mash.  <snip>  Also, you don't 
     want to boil the grains as a rule.
     
     4. I treat my grain steeping as though I was doing a full mash.  I 
     usually start by adding my grain to "hot" water from the tap.  
     Depending on the brew, I'll rest at 122F (protein rest) and then again 
     at 155ish.  Complete iodine test and when it shows complete 
     conversion, I sparge by running hot tap water over the bag.  I don't 
     heat the water to mashout temps (170ish)--just take what I get from 
     the tap again.  <snip>
     
     5. The heat to boiling method is a Charlie P., keep it simple method  
     <snip>.  By raising the grains to boiling temperatures, you are 
     extracting tannins and other unpleasant compounds from the grain.  Go 
     with the steep, at any of the above mentioned temperatures.  Lately, 
     I've started added the specialty malts to the mash just prior to 
     heating to mashout, which covers the range from 158-170.  The result 
     has been an increase in the sweet "crystal" taste that gets attenuated 
     when these grains go through a full mash.  This is similar to what 
     steeping will do with an extract brew.
     
     NOTE:  The above posting are extracts from private e-mail--for that 
     reason, I've removed the names.
     
     6. From my home-brew supply shop.  Bring water to boil, remove from 
     heat, add grains, partially cover pot, and steep 30-45 minutes and 
     don't worry about the temperature.
     
     7. From Rob Reed:  Add crushed specialty grains to 170-175F brewing 
     water and hold for 30 min.  I usually add 2.5-3.0 qts water per lb. 
     grist.  Remove grains, add extract, continue.  Suggest using grain bags 
     to minimize grain separation hassles.  <snip>
     
     8. From Russell Mast:  If you subject the grains to too much heat for 
     too long, they will leach tannins into your beer. <snip>  How long is 
     too long, how hot is too hot?  A 5 minute boil is way too much.  10 
     minutes at 170 never caused me harm.  <snip>
     
     Thanks to all who commented-apologies for the bandwidth.
     
     Mike - Brewing and drinkin' in the Valley of the Sun
     
     
     
     

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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 12:11:41 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: beerstone, grain summary


Hi All,

In HBD#1731, Ronald Moucka asks:

>On an unrelated subject, the converted (legal) keg I've been
>using as a brew pot is developing a brown coating on the
>bottom that is next to impossible to scrub off.  I'm not against
>using a little elbow grease, but this stuff is really tuff.

  Sounds like beerstone, AKA calcium oxylate. This is a common occurence
with SS. The best way that I've found to clean it is to fill the keg with
water, heat it, add non-chlorinated TSP and let it soak for several hours.
The beerstone will then come off with a plastic abrasive pad and a bit of
elbow grease, wear rubber gloves while cleaning.
  Commercial breweries do periodic caustic cleanings to remove/prevent
beerstone buildup using, I believe, 5% nitric acid solutions. I know of
a homebrewer that uses caustic lye with good results. Both of these things
are a little too caustic for my comfort, so I use the non-chlorinated TSP.
I've also used white vinegar, and found it to be somewhat less effective.

*****************************************************

In HBD #1730, Patrick G. Babcock writes:

>A few months back, I asked the same question and
>received a very nice HBD Grain Summary from Jim Dipalma (thanks
>again, Jim!).

>I believe it was Jim who compiled it for us.

Just a quick note to set the record straight, the grain summary was
originally posted by Jim Busch. I'd been grain brewing for a few years,
but found Jim's summary to be both comprehensive (there's a entry for
every type of grain that I've ever heard of) and very informative, so I 
saved a copy for future reference.

           Cheers,
            Jim               dipalma at sky.com

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Date: 15 May 1995 11:51:16 U
From: "Mark Merchant" <Mark_Merchant at gatormail.wi.mit.edu>
Subject: Alum. Keg/Beer Fests

I have a couple issues to deal with here:
1.) I came upon an old keg that someone was throwing out a while back and have
been storing it in my basement ever since.  I looked into converting it to a
brew kettle, but think that it may be impossible or not worthwhile, but maybe
I'm wrong.  What I have is an aluminum 15.5 gallon "golden gate" style keg
(i.e. it has a bung hole in the side) from the Schlitz Brewery.  I will be
moving from my Somerville, MA residence soon and wondered if anyone out there
would be interested in such a keg for whatever purpose.  If so, respond via
e-mail and we can work out the details.
2.) I went to the Boston Beer Festival this last weekend and loved it. 
Unfortunately my good friend was unable to make it and we wanted to try to find
an equally large beer festival (i.e. around 70-90 breweries) to go to.  Does
anyone have a list of large beer festivals across the country and their dates,
etc.?  I will be moving to Chicago so if there is a big one there, can you
please send me details?  Thanks!
 -Mark Merchant; E-mail: Mark_Merchant at gatormail.wi.mit.edu

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Date:          Mon, 15 May 1995 10:35:17 MST-0700
From: "CHRIS DUFTON" <CDUFTON at Entente.HSC.Colorado.edu>
Subject:       corny under pressure

I have been corny kegging for about a two years now  and until now 
have had  a nagging question about pressure.  I, generally, carbonate 
a 5 gallon batch at 20-30 psi and 40 degrees F for about 10-14 days 
which generally does the trick.  Unfortunatly, I need to back 
the pressure off to about 7 psi to dispense which I do by taking off 
the pressure hose and pressing in the valve to release CO2.   I 
believe that this venting of my beer is releasing a lot of aroma with 
the gas and this is undesirable.   My questions are:  

1. what is the standard force carbonation method for corny kegs?? 

2. is there a way to keep my pressure high without blasting out a 
beer foamy??(longer beer line?  What length optimal?)

3.  does anyone else think that the aroma is being tossed out with 
the gas??   

4.  If a longer line is used to dispense beer do I need to purge this 
line (and waste my beer)  between fill-ups  if it has been a couple 
of days??  weeks??  ( I usually do.)

I am relatively new to HBD so if these questions have already come up 
and you don't want to rehash spent grains ,send private E-mail to 
cdufton at entente.hsc.colorado.edu

Thanks
Chris Dufton
cdufton at entente.hsc.colorado.edu
University of Colorado
Health Science Center, Denver
***DON'T PANIC***


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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 12:13:23 -0500
From: science at umr.edu (John Francis)
Subject: NA Beer

What ever happened to the thread a few weeks ago about Non-Alcoholic beer?
Did anyone recieve any private replies they would consider posting?  Is
there a definitive way to make NA Beer?  And finally, just what is this
Belgian Driving Beer?

TIA

John Francis
science at umr.edu


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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 13:20:55 EST
From: "Tom Williams" <twilliams at CCGATE.UECI.COM>
Subject: Thermal expansion of water

     In HBD #1731 Dan Sherman asked about the thermal expansion of water.
     
     A pound of water at 70 F occupies 0.016051 cu ft, or about 27.7 cu in. 
     At 212 F, a pound of water occupies 0.016716 cu ft, or about 28.9 cu 
     in.  Looks like about 4% expansion from room temperature to boiling, 
     more of which occurs in the higher temperatures than the lower.
     
     FWIW, I think that the volume of the bubbles during boiling will make 
     more difference in the volume of the boiling wort than thermal 
     expansion.
     
     Tom Williams
     Norcross, GA
     


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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 14:14:45 -0400
From: John Keane <keane at cs.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Stove cleanup

When brewing this past Friday, I left the kettle boiling in the
kitchen while I left the room to feed my 2-month-old daughter.  When I
returned, I discovered to my surprise that a "small" boilover had
occurred.  I thought I could disregard it, as I always put foil down
over the top of the stove before starting, and it didn't look like
much had spilled.

Well, when I finally removed the foil, I discovered that plenty of
wort had ended up underneath it, and had carbonized on the stove in a
thick, black, nearly indestructable layer.  It took three hours of
scraping and scouring to remove it, and I'm sure that despite my
greatest care, I have scratched the enamel of the stove top.

My question is this: if (heaven forfend!) this ever happens to me
again, what is the Right Way to get that black, baked-on, carbonized
sugar off of the stove *without* destroying the finish?  Since I
imagine this question might be of interest to others, if people e-mail
suggestions, I will post a summary of responses back here.

Thanks in advance!
_Jack_

"A good rule of thumb might be that cleaning up after brewing should
never take as long as your mash."

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 09:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: raudins at lightscape.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: Copper Connections

Recently, ~HBD 1716, there was discussion on attaching a brass nipple to
a SS keg.  I am interested as to what method people use for attaching copper
to copper.  Having read the articles on welding, John Palmer is a wealth of
info, I am interested to know what method the HBDers are using.  Typically
brazing has been mentioned but I have also seen epoxy mentioned.  Most RIMS
people will have gone through this as the heater chamber is constructed
completely of copper per Rodney's designs.  As I am not a welder, any good
suggestions on an introduction to brazing if it seems to be answer?  John's
article is good but not basic enough for John Q. (Non-Welding) Public. 

 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -
Glenn Raudins                          Phone: (408) 246-1155 Ext. 113
Lightscape Technologies                  FAX: (408) 246-0255
raudins at lightscape.com
 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 13:25:14 -0600
From: MHANSEN at ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject:  Mesh screen false bottoms/more on apt brewing

Hey All,

Apologies if this gets posted twice. My mail server has been acting up.

Al K. states that using a mesh screen as a false bottom probably won't
work and if it did it would require gallons and gallons of recirculation to
form a filter bed. I must disagree with you Al. I use a mesh screen
(actually it's a SS inverted flour sifter) for my false bottom and it works
very well. I usually recirculate about a half gallon or at most a gallon for
_very_ turbid mashes to get clear runoff.

Steve Seaney asks about apartment brewing. Well, as someone who
has always done all-grainers inside, it can be done (since I don't have a
balcony, I don't have a choice). I mash and boil in a 33 qt enamel-on-steel
pot. During mashing I insulate with several towels which holds temps up
pretty well. My sparge water is held in a 7.5 gallon plastic bucket
insulated with silver lined bubble wrap. My lauter tun is also an insulated
7.5 gallon plastic bucket with a mesh screen false bottom. I only do ales
in my apartment since I don't have temperature control cool enough for
lagers. I concede that boiling for 60-90 minutes inside an apartment (or a
house for that matter) does get pretty steamy. 

As has been echoed by a number of people, the more messes you make
and things you destroy, the more likely your wife will send you packing
(to the basement or garage, hopefully :-)) with the equipment you desire.
After scorching the counter top, spilling bleach on an area rug, losing
half a gallon of wort on the dining room carpet, frequent noxious odors
(in her opinion) from brewing and fermenting, and a host of other
mishaps, my wife MADE me design a custom brewery for the basement
in the house we are building (which will require a bunch of new
equipment, of course!). What a shame to never be able to brew in the
kitchen again :-)!

Brew on my friends,
Mike  (michael-d-hansen at uiowa.edu)
Don't smoke grains; It makes you cough.



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1732, 05/16/95