FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Enzyme use to fix stuck fermentations! (kevin)
  Mouthfeel (Joseph.Fleming)
  Re: Grain Summary ("Pat Babcock")
  Dried Corn Syrup/high FG/brown coating/raw sugar (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Orange Peel vs. Bitter Orange (ecklund)
  Broken Hydrometers ("Harrington, Stephen J")
  Lactose/Decoction Mashing (A. J. deLange)
  Brewsters??? (DocsBrew)
  RIMS/DESIGN (David Moos)
  When to add Irish Moss to the boil? (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  RE: Bells E. Coast Availability (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  long overdue thanks for info on honey flavor, etc. (Jim Graham)
  Re: Hg thread (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Yeast Pitching Rates (MR RON PETERSON)
  RE- Yeast Pitching ("Rick Spada")
  Trub removal (LBRISTOL)
  RIMS temp controller ("Keith Royster")
  Washing Yeast (M.Marshburn/D202)
  Beer line and tap cleaning ("Richard Scotty")
  Using Weisse Yeast Without the Weissen (dsanderson)
  Density of Water - Variation with Temperature (Dr. David C. Harsh)
  Steeping Grains ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  Info wanted on 'going pro'. (Gerald_Wirtz)
  Yeast starters, my $.02 (Steve kemp)
  High F.G. (Chris Cooper)
  Automagical Mail Frustrator (Russell Mast)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 13:01:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: kevin at wheels.aar.com
Subject: Enzyme use to fix stuck fermentations!

I have just uploaded the following file to the ftp.stanford.edu
homebrew ftp site.  I am posting an *abridged* version here also, 
for the benefit of those who lack ftp access.
Filename is "enzyme.txt" on the ftp site.

Kevin

++++++++++

I wrote this document on enzymes because of the relative lack
of information on their use.  I had looked thru several books,
and for example, Papazian's "Joy" book only made a vague, one 
sentence comment on the use of enzymes in this manner.  The 
information on using them to fix stuck fermentations, and brewing
low FG beers is lacking.  Perhaps if more people knew this, we
wouldn't be seeing the continual flow of "stuck fermentation"
postings - almost everyday!  I provide this in the hope that more
people will look into this, and maybe have fewer problems with
stuck fermentations.  I'm not saying that the use of enzymes are
the panacea for stuck fermentations, but I do think it would solve
a majority of them!  Their use has fixed every one that I tried 
them on - three so far.

- ---------

Enzymes are very useful in the following circumstances:

1) To produce a high alcohol, low FG beer.

2) To correct a "stuck" fermentation, while the SG is still high,  due
   to the large amounts of unfermentable dextrins and complex sugars.

3) To correct a stuck fermentation when large amounts of glucose (corn
   sugar, or dextrose) were used to boost OG, only to screw up the
   yeast's ability to utilize other normally fermentable sugars.


- -- snip ---


Malt's unfermentables (2):

- -- snip ---

If a malt contains significant unfermentables (and most do - more or less),
then the beer will only ferment down to where it has used up all of the
fermentable sugars, and stops there. 

- -- snip ---

This kind of stuck fermentation can be dealt with by the use of enzymes.
They can be added when pitching yeast, or when they notice the fermentation
seems to be stuck at a higher than expected SG.  The enzymes will slowly
break down the unfermentable dextrins and complex sugars, into fermentable
sugars.  This will result in the fermentation resuming, and help to lower 
the SG to a more acceptable FG value. 

- -- snip ---

Yeast metabolism (3):

Just like humans, yeast ultimately convert all *fermentable* sugars to 
glucose before they can be utilized within the yeast cell.  This is 
accomplished via enzymes within the yeast.  If there is a major problem 
within the yeast to manufacture the enzymes needed to convert sugars other 
than glucose, to glucose, then the yeast cell cannot ferment sugars that 
it would normally consume rapidly.  This is a problem that happens commonly
in beer brewing, when large amounts of corn sugar (i.e. glucose or dextrose)
are added to boost the OG, in the hope of producing a high alcoholic beer.

- -- snip ---

In the above situation, the "stuck" fermentation - IF it is the same 
situation as described above, can be corrected by adding enzymes to the
fermenting beer.  This will allow BETA amylase to breakdown, and convert
the various sugars to glucose, which the yeast still can utilize.  This
will again help start up an otherwise stuck fermentation. 

- -- snip ---

These "stuck" situations that were discussed ASSUMED that there had been
a healthy fermentation prior to when the fermentation got "stuck".  If the
beer won't even begin to ferment at all, even after making sure the
wort had been oxygenated well, then I doubt that enzymes will help either.

- -- snip ---

My personal experience:

- -- snip ---

Recently, I had two batches of beer that had stuck at higher than
expected SGs.  The main one was stuck at 1.043.  I tried adding yeast
nutrient, adjusting the pH, adding minerals, and even putting a heating
pad on the carboy.  All attempts did very little to improve the stuck
fermentation.  It sat for three weeks like this, 

- -- snip ---

The beer began to ferment within 2 hours, and returned to almost a
normal rapid fermentation rate within 24 hours. At it's peak, it was
bubbling once every 1-2 seconds, so it was definitely becoming very
active again!  It took a few days, and then it slowed down again.  I
bottled it when it reached an FG of 1.014, 

- -- snip ---

I have suggested this course of action to several people who have posted
either to rec.crafts.brewing or the HDB, in regards to stuck fermentations.
I have heard back from several that have tried this, and it fixed their
problem.  While I have not heard back from them all, I have NOT heard back
from any that had TRIED it, and it didn't work - all responses that have
tried it, have affirmed that adding enzymes helped their stuck fermentations.  
Take that for what it's worth.


Enzymes & their sources:

If you do try to add enzymes to your beer, you should use purified enzymes
that can be obtained from some brewing stores.  It is advisable to seek out
enzymes that have beta amylase in them also -so it will work in all three
situations that I have listed in this document.  This may be a difficult
bit of information to get from some brew store owners, because they may
be several steps removed from the original manufacturer, and may have
no way of KNOWING for sure what form of amylase enzyme they are selling.
While the enzymes may be in a purified form, they probably are not
sterile, and you may risk infection, just as you do when you add dried
sugar to prime your beer at bottling.

- -- snip ---

I would be interested to know if anyone out there knows brand names, and
mail order sources for these enzymes - especially beta amylase containing
enzymes.   Perhaps I could assemble a list of companies that cater to
the homebrewer, that supply enzymes that will work, and post it at a
later date.



Disclaimer:

There are numerous causes for stuck fermentations.  Yeast will not
ferment if they are not being supplied with the various foods they
need, which include (not a thorough list) amino acids, minerals, 
fermentable sugars, and an environment that they can live in.  Enzymes 
will not fix every stuck fermentation, but I do feel that they would 
correct a MAJORITY of the stuck fermentation posts we see weekly!  
This is only my opinion.  I also DO NOT suggest the method of extracting 
enzymes from malted barley (as I did), due to the potential risk of 
infection in your beer.  I only mentioned it in the description of what 
I did for informational purposes.

- ---
Kevin Hass WB0DPN       ! 
kevin at babbage.aar.com   !        Finger for PGP public key.
kevin at wheels.aar.com    !



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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 14:01:50 EST
From: Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov
Subject: Mouthfeel

 Wallinger, W. A.:
 |well, how 'bout one more post on 'mouthfeel':
 
    Would that it were!
    There are SO many variables and conditions contributing to this ill 
 defined property that it is indeed hopeless for the homebrewer to try to 
 track and then quantify them all.  People mention new contributing 
 properties each day, ranging from viscosity and carbonation to 
 unfermentables and associated aroma.
    The original post (I think) wanted to know if OG indicated potential 
 mouthfeel; it indicates the weight of solution relative to water.  We 
 homebrewers interpret (perhaps too loosely) that it indicates potentially 
 fermentable sugar; even if that were the case, there is no way to gauge 
 taste from that number.  Equal "taste amounts" of 80L crystal and roast 
 barley will be perceived differently.  That roast barley fermented at a 
 different temperature will taste different.  Just because we plop in grain 
 netting X SRM and hops sufficient for Y IBUs does not mean that's what we 
 get!  What we start with and what we end up with are two different things, 
 based on our utilization.  Brewing is a science - but when we talk about a 
 nebulous commodity like mouthfeel...strike one up for the art of 
 homebrewing.
 
    Just my short and sweet contribution to mouthfeel. (rimshot!)  
 
                    Joe - joseph.fleming at gsa.gov


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Date:          Mon, 15 May 1995 15:49:30 +0000
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject:       Re: Grain Summary 

The Dipalma grain summary has been submitted to the archives at 
Stanford.  FTP to 

ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/docs/all_about_grains.Z

(Thanks, Stephen!)


"Drink all you want - I'll brew more!"

Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock    | "Yup, Kit's (Anderson) a brewer...
President, Brew-Master      |  What he isn't is a woman." - Dan
and Chief Taste-Tester      | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point 
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery |  at the end of your day as every sentence 
pbabcock at oeonline.com       |  requires proper punctuation." -PGB

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Date: 15 May 95 15:40:00 -0500
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Dried Corn Syrup/high FG/brown coating/raw sugar

Judging from Alan's description of what this "Dried Corn Syrup" does
to the beer, I would say that it is probably what we in the states
call Malto-Dextrin.

***
Beersgood writes:
>I am new at this but am having a problem that my local supplier doesn't seem
>to be able to answer. I've brewed 7 batches of beer so far, all have ended at
>least 1.015 with most of them at 1.020.

Check the "stuck fermentation" FAQ in the archives, but I suspect that it's
probably your extract.  By any chance is it "Laaglander" or "Dutch" dried
malt extract?  These two are notorious for high finishing gravities.

***
Ron writes:
>On an unrelated subject, the converted (legal) keg I've been
>using as a brew pot is developing a brown coating on the
>bottom that is next to impossible to scrub off.

I assume you mean on the INSIDE of the keg, right?  If so, then it's
"beer stone."  The "old fashioned" way to remove this stuff was to scrub
it with batches of beer that had soured.  Obviously, acid is what you
need to take it off... vinegar comes to mind immediately.

***
Robert writes:
>Recently my folks took a trip to hawaii, and brought me back some "Raw" sugar.

I found a sugar labeled as "Raw Sugar" at a big foodstore near Chicago.
It was made by a company called "C+H" (California and Hawaii).  I brewed a
1.065 OG IPA with 2# of this stuff and it came out pretty bad -- very cidery.
I recommend staying well below 2# per 5 gallons when adding "raw sugar."

Al.

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 17:29:01 -0400
From: ecklund at tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com
Subject: Orange Peel vs. Bitter Orange

I realize that I'm running the risk of drudging up a well worn thread but, 
here goes.  I'm looking forward to brewing up a batch of Christmas Ale that,
among other things, calls for grated orange peel.  Realizing that orange peel
vs. bitter orange was discussed at length in regard to it's use in a Belgian
Wit, I can't recall if the collective wisdom had an opinion on using it in a
holiday brew that would also contain cinnamon, honey, ginger root etc.  One
comment at the time that has managed to linger however, was that the use of
orange peel had given someone's beer a "hamlike flavor"!  I regret that I 
can't remember the details but, I'm still trying to imagine what *Piggy
Pilsner* would tasten like. Yeeech!

Will I be okay, in this case, to simply grate some orange peel and toss it
into the boil or should I use bitter orange?  If the peel WILL work, does
anyone have any suggestions or experience with a specific variety of orange?
This will be an extract recipe and any help would certainly be appreciated.
As always, E-Mail is fine.

Regards,         "The best way to die is sit under a tree, eat lots of bologna
Bill Ecklund      and salami, drink a case of beer, then blow up." - Art
                  Donovan  HOF lineman


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Date: 15 May 1995 17:15:29 -0800
From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington at msmail4.hac.com>
Subject: Broken Hydrometers

Is there any reason that hydrometers are not made out of plastic.  I ask this
question because the cost of my last batch of beer included the money for the
hydrometer I broke.

Stephen Harrington
Manhattan Beach, CA

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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 16:49:31 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Lactose/Decoction Mashing

In #1731 Jim Powell, jpowell at surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu asked about lactose
in beer:

Lactose is not fermented by beer yeast and is, therefore, used where resid-
ual sweetness is desired after fermentation is complete. The most usual
application is in "milk stout" which is so named because this sugar is used.
It will not lend a cream flavor/mouthfeel to the beer. As it is unmodified
in the process it will cause problems for lactase defficient people (don't
give it to your Thai friends) in sufficient quantity.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Bill Joy, billj at mails.imed.com had some questions about decoction mashing,
in particular with respect to pH measurement with test strips. The important
factor here is to remember that when the ideal pH range for mashing is
specified as 5.2 - 5.4 this is at the mash temperature. With strips the
sample must be cooled before the test is done and this raises the pH by
about 0.2 so look for an ideal range of 5.4 - 5.6 (and you should be OK
down to as far as 5.8 or so).

Note that each decoction will lower the pH somewhat (as will the final boil).
I personally like to see the pH at 5.7 (at mash temp) before the first
decoction is pulled and have it down to less than 5.5 by the time the
saccarification rest is reached. These numbers are a bit high but I get
reasonable (if not great) extraction with them (I have somewhat alkaline
water with all the calcium removed).

With respect to the sparge water I don't worry too much. You have already
thoroughly boiled nearly all the grain in the decoctions and, thus, ex-
tracted most of the tannins which are available for extraction. One of the
reasons one lagers for 3 months is to let these phenols complex and
drop out. Furthermore  it has been my experience that pH is just crossing
6 when the runoff extract gets down to 2-3 P so I just stop there.

As for a description of the process, well that would take up lots of
space. A few tips: The first two decoctions should be mostly grain.
I separate the grain from the liquid with a strainer  (enough enzymes
still come over for conversion). I add some boiling
water to the grains to thin the porrige a bit and sometimes add more
when coming to the boil to keep the decoction from being so thick that
it sticks and burns. Keep stirring. The third decoction is for the enzymes
i.e. it is the liquid part which can be gotten by using the strainer backwards
like a stuykmanden. Remember that any starch released during the third
decoction will not be converted as the temperature is raised to mashout at
its return. This is why grains in the 3rd shoud be at a minimum.

I find it helpful to have a "program" posted on the wall of the brewhouse
(my wife calls this room the "kitchen"). This is a graph of time vs temp-
erature like the ones in the brewing books except that everything is labeled
with notes like "to 122 in :10; hold :30" i.e. all the numbers you need
are on that one piece of paper. You will be so busy that you will not have
time to be looking things up in books.

Try to develop a detailed procedure either in your mind or on paper and then
think about each step. E.G. where you must withdraw 45% of the rest mash think
about how you will do that. How do you know how much mash there is i.e. how
do you measure what it is you take 45% of? How do you do the transfer? Where
is the decoction vessel relative to the rest mash vessel? Perhaps you could
stage all the gear and run through the procedures with water.

Don't expect your first couple of decoction mashes to be pleasant experiences.
I have had stuck mashes which have led to 18 hour brew days (drawing water
through cleanup). A triple decoction can take more than 6 hours from dough-
in to mashout. Like most things, with a little experience it becomes second
nature (but never as quick as infusion mashing). Good luck!


A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com



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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 20:51:01 -0400
From: DocsBrew at aol.com
Subject: Brewsters???

We have quite an active - and fun - little club here in Temecula, CA.  My
wife is the Secretary and I'm the newsletter editor.  She's also a pretty
serious brewer.  

We had some guests at a recent meeting, and the lady got talking to my wife
and asked her if she'd like to join her, and some other "brewsters," for an
afternoon of brewing an extract pale ale.  "I thought you'd like to join us,
since you're a brewster, too."  My dear, sweet, blunt wife said, "No, I'm not
a brewster.  I'm a brewer, and I worked hard to be a brewer."  
Ya shoulda seen the "brewster's" face.

There now.....are you guys jealous?  Not only do I get to do my brewing, but
she makes about half the beer I drink!  We even get the kids in on it - Brad
likes to toss the hops in, and help wash bottles, Lexie is assistant capper,
and Caitlin, well she just hangs out and looks cute.  

How many "family affairs" are out there?  The poor fellas whose wives  can't
stand it - I can barley - er, uh - barely even relate!  

Doc.

Doc's Brew (tm)    -    "Cures What Ales Ya!" (c)
          ooooops.......is that an ad???


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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 19:49:21 -0700
From: davidcm at ix.netcom.com (David Moos)
Subject: RIMS/DESIGN


I am in  progress of designing a RIMS. The questions I have are as 
follows:

  1)Brew pot hight? I plane on using a counterflow W.C. with a 
thickness of 9". My primary is 20" tall. I would like the bottom of the 
brew pot closer to the ground than 30". So my question is does anyone 
pump the wort thru the CFWC?

  2)I prefer to keep it power supply 120 volts. Does anyone pump hot 
water out of the brew pot up to the hot liquor tank and use a 120 volt 
1500 watt element to keep it warm?

  3)What type of quick disconnects are being used to remove mash tun 
and brew pot for cleaning?

  4)Any other hints for this stag of design would be appreciated.


  Thanks in advance,

  David Moos

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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 10:16:56 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: When to add Irish Moss to the boil?

I'd like to sample opinion about when Irish moss should be added to a one 
hour boil (extract, if it matters).  The IM container says for the last 15 
minutes, and this agrees with what i have seen in print.  However, a local 
brewing supplies shop suggested adding the IM at 15 minutes into the 1 hour 
boil.  He claimed to have seen somewhere that it really takes 30 minutes 
for IM to "be activated", so he figured give it the 30 minutes plus another 
15 minutes for good measure.

Does it really matter, or will it work either way?


Tim Fields
 Timf at relay.com
 Relay Technology, Inc., SQL/DS Division
 Vienna, VA, USA



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Date: Mon, 15 May 95 10:58:45 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: RE: Bells E. Coast Availability

In HBD 1730, Allan Rubinoff  <rubinoff at bbn.com> asks:

>Anybody know if Bell's beers will be available on the east coast anytime
>soon?  If not, I guess I'll have to visit my parents a little more
>often . . .

Not sure where you are located, but Bell's products ARE available here in 
the Wash, DC metro area.  I've purchased them at Total Beverage in 
beautiful downtown Chantilly, VA.  No affiliation, kickbacks, etc.  I've 
seen the PA, porter, 3rd coast beer(ale?), and a very nice Winter brew that 
was available this past winter.  If you are not close by, perhaps a call to 
Bells would yield a distributor's name you could use to track down a retail 
outlet?


Tim Fields
 Timf at relay.com
 Relay Technology, Inc., SQL/DS Division
 Vienna, VA, USA



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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 17:08:29 -0600 (CDT)
From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: long overdue thanks for info on honey flavor, etc.

To everyone who sent me info, etc., on my question regarding how the
honey flavor in JR Dundee's Honey Brown might be kept, I owe you a long
overdue thanks.

Right about the time I asked that question, a project that I've been
pushing for the last year or so at work went into high gear, and I had
very, very little time in front of the computer, for brewing, or anything
else, for that matter.

So, please accept my apologies for taking so long to get back to you, and
thanks to everyone for their input.  I had no idea that that one question
had sparked off such a long series of conversations (at least, it appeared
to be the spark that set them off).  :-)   I almost maxed out my root
partition (which, on my machine, includes /home ... at least, until I get
an excuse to re-partition) with the HBD before I finally got a chance to
catch up!!!

Thanks again,
   --jim

- --
73 DE N5IAL (/4)         MiSTie #49997     < Running Linux 1.0.9 >
      jim at n5ial.mythical.com                 ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W
  ||  j.graham at ieee.org          Packet:  --OFFLINE-- (Ft. Walton Beach, FL)
E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs).


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Date: Tue, 16 May 95 18:37:33 EST
From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Hg thread
Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

| It also stated that there should be no fear of mercury
| poisoning since the mercury was "triple distilled mercury" 
| and could not be absorbed through the skin.

*snip*

| So, I put it to the experts/alchemists/chemists-brewers of 
| the HBD.  Is there such a thing as 'safe' mercury???  And 
| what's up with the triple distilled stuff?

Okey doke.  This is the purest speculation, but I asked my office-mate 
and he was of the opinion that what they mean by this is that triple 
distilled mercury will have very little HgCl2 (and other water soluble 
Hg compunds) and thus the mercury would have to react with enviromental 
compounds before it could be successfully absorbed.  All bets are off 
however if you start swallowing the stuff!  

Cheerio

Aidan

e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au,
WWW: http://rschp2.anu.edu.au:8080/aidan


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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 06:33:45 EDT
From: EAJB74A at prodigy.com (MR RON PETERSON)
Subject: Yeast Pitching Rates

- -- [ From: Ron Peterson * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

I typically do not use a starter with my Wyeast package.  I realize
that this is underpitching.  Is it a factor for contamination of my
batch (about 1 out of every 8 batches went bad)?  How much yeast slurry
should I pitch to a 5 gallon batch to asssure quick starts and no
contamination?  What are microbrews pitching rates?

I have propagated yeast strains for 2-3 batches with some limited
success.

Cheers,
Ron Peterson
EAJB74A at prodigy.com


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Date: 16 May 1995 08:31:38 -0400
From: "Rick Spada" <rick_spada at mathworks.com>
Subject: RE- Yeast Pitching

                       Subject:                               Time:8:13 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          RE: Yeast Pitching                     Date:5/16/95
Date: Sat, 13 May 95 12:55:00 edt
From: Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: RE: Yeast Pitching

Message:
Hello...
 
Rob Reed says:
> Most homebrewers habitually underpitch yeast and probably would
> be shocked if they saw how much yeast is pitched in commercial 
> operations.

Robert Ser replies:
> That, my friends, is an understatement! I recently visited Hart's 
> brewery located in Carleton Place, about 45 minutes West of Ottawa.  
> During the tour, we were told that they use approximately 22 
> POUNDS(!) of Yorkshire stone yeast in every 500 gallon batch.

Working out the math to scale this down to a 5 gallon batch yields:

  22 lbs / 500 gal = 352 oz. / 500 gal
  ==> 0.7 oz / gal
  ==> 3.5 oz / gal

It's tough for me to say if I've been underpitching or not.  I always make a
one pint starter from the liquid yeast smack packs.  This works fine for me,
fermentation starts up within 6 - 12 hours depending upon the temperature of
my cellar.

- -- Rick

__ Rick Spada _______________________ ricks at mathworks.com __
     The MathWorks, Inc.               info at mathworks.com
     24 Prime Park Way           http://www.mathworks.com
     Natick, MA 01760-1500              ftp.mathworks.com
__ Tel: 508-653-1415 ___ Fax: 508-653-2997 _________________





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Date:         Tue, 16 May 95 07:51:56 CDT
From: LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM
Subject:      Trub removal

> Let me know if anybody in the Brew world has a tried and true method for
> trub removal. I would like to begin partial or all grain brews and want a
> good trub removal system before I take the plunge. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

I invented a term for what is probably one of the most common techniques in
use.  I "scrub" the wort to remove the "trub"; these words rhyme, BTW.  :-)
Anyway, assuming you are using something like a Gott cooler with a false
bottom as your mash tun, AND you use an emersion wort chiller, AND you use
either loose hops or pucks, you already have all of the equipment you need.
This technique will not work if you use pellets, which for me is a compelling
reason to avoid them (Controversy!  Oh, boy!)

While the wort is cooling to pitching temperature, sanitize your Gott cooler
and false bottom (along with your fermenter, of course).  Then, simply *POUR*
the wort, spent hops, trub, and all into the Gott, and let it stand for a few
minutes (assuming you have a good cold break, 2-3 minutes is plenty) so that
the gunk (technical term) will settle to the false bottom.  Open the spigot
and collect wort back into your boil pot until the runnings are bright.  This
should happen within seconds, actually.  Return that to the top of the Gott,
and start collecting your runnings into your fermenter.

The spent hops are acting as a filter bed, trapping the trub and other gunk.
This is why hop pellets will not work.  In addition to clearing out mass
quantities leaving a sparkingly bright wort, all that splashing around assures
adequate aeration has been achieved.

Just to ensure adequate controversy (I understand you score extra points with
the AI-robot when you do that), I'll add the following.  After the wort has
completely drained from the Gott, if you need to "top up" your fermenter to
get the target volume, it is perfectly OK to "sparge" the hop bed with your
cool water.  Some seem to think that this might dissolve some tannins or other
"stuff" which will damage the beer.  My opinion is that stuff was in the wort
to being with, and if it was interested in dissolving, it would have already
done so, so quit being so anal, so there.  :-)

The only gotcha's (more technical terminology) are that you must make sure
that the wort is cool before aeration, and there is a slight risk that the
filter bed will clog up requiring you to muck around to clear it.  Of course,
any additional exposure of the wort increases the risk of infection.  However,
I have been using this technique for some time and have never experienced any
infection problem.  <YMMV>

- --------------------------------------------------------
|  Larry Bristol    |     A brave, Zen-like effort!    |
|  SYSUBMC.BMC.COM  |                                  |
|  (713)918-7802    |         ... but it fails.        |
- --------------------------------------------------------

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Date:          Tue, 16 May 1995 09:36:39 EST
From: "Keith Royster" <Royster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject:       RIMS temp controller

A few comments and questions for my fellow HBD'ers:

I recently received a copy of Rodney Morris's RIMS plan from Teddy
Winstead (Thanks!!!) which has a very technical circuit diagram for
the temp control and pump speed control.  I sat there staring at the
confusing heiroglyphics (I'm no electrical engineer) thinking that
there has to be an easier (and cheaper) way!!  It occurred to me
that I'm just trying to do the opposite of what my temp controller is
doing to maintain lager fermenting temps in my fridge.  So, does
anyone know if such a controller exists?  Or could I rewire a fridge
temp controller so that it kicked on when the temp DROPPED BELOW a
set temp range?  I would then simply plug the electric heating
element into this controller with the temp monitoring bulb upstream
of the element. I could then dial in the temp I wanted during 
mashing.  Any comments as to design/feasibility etc are appreciated.

I'm currently doing extract brewing, but am working my way towards
all grain (thus the previous question).  I have converted a 15gal SS
sankey keg into a brewing kettle (BTW what constitutes a legal
acquisition?) with a spigot welded at the bottom.  Inside the keg I
screwed an elbow fitting onto the back of the spigot and pointed it
down to get a better siphon when emptying the keg.  I then place a
piece of screen in this to keep my CF chiller from plugging up with
any potential debris.  Well, my first batch went well in my new
kettle except that a few hop leaves plugged up the screen in the
spigot at the end of the siphon, making it difficult to get the last
bit of wort.  So on the next batch, I washed enough river pebbles
(~1/4" from garden supply) to put in the bottom of the keg and act as
a filter to the spigot.  Quit a bit of hops escaped from my hop
bags, but this filter bed worked beautifully!  No plugging
what-so-ever!  My question is, can anyone think of any reason why
these rocks would have an adverse effect on the brewing process?
Sanitation is not a problem because their being boiled.  Any
minerals release should be helpful, correct?

As to the mercury thread, I had a physics teacher back in highschool 
that spilled a pool of the liquid metal onto her hand.  It promptly 
attached itself to her gold wedding band coating it completely.  She 
had to have a metalurgist remove it.  I guess the point here is, it 
didn't absorb into her skin (triple distilled?!?!?), but it does like 
to bond with certain metals.  So I'd be leary of a metal pot I'd 
spilled it in until somebody with the proper qualifications told me 
it was OK.

+------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Keith Royster, E.I.T.        |                         |
| Environmental Engineer       |   A penny saved......   |
| NC-DEHNR / Air Quality       |                         |
|    (704) 663-1699            |      ..is ridiculous!   |
| Royster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us |                         |
+------------------------------+-------------------------+


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Date:     16 May 95  8:43:32 EST
From: M.Marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil
Subject: Washing Yeast


Hello All

     I bottled an ale Saturday, poured the yeast dregs into a sanitized quart
jar, covered with boiled and cooled water and sealed with a boiled lid and
ring. I swirled the jar good and placed in the fridge. Now, what is the
procedure for reusing this yeast? I plan to brew a pale ale this coming
Saturday. This is the first reuse of the yeast. I used pellet hops to dry
hop, but racked off the hop trub after 5 days in the carboy. There is still
quite a bit of green in the bottom to the jar, but a nice layer of clean
white yeast on top.

Thanks to all
Mike --m.marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil


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Date: 16 May 1995 07:50:23 -0700
From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com>
Subject: Beer line and tap cleaning

I've been trying to catch up on the digest while attempting to manage the
project from hell.  McKee Smith was recently asking for recommendations on
how to clean his taps and beer lines.

I had the same problem and many of the same thoughts as McKee did, but didn't
want to hasle with swapping kegs for cleaning, etc.  Sooooo, I came up with
the following less than elegant, but expedient solution:

I went to the brew shop and purchased the male liquid poppet for my keg type
 - I have a pin lock system, but this should work equally well for ball locks.
 I then moseyed down to the hardware store and bought a cheap 2 gallon
pressurized garden sprayer (hand pump type).  I rummaged through the hardware
section to find the appropriate barbed adapters for the tubing on the garden
sprayer.  I then cut the wand off of the sprayer (I did buy it first) and
inserted the barbed adapter in the line and sealed with an automotive tubing
clamp.

I ran into a bit of trouble at this point.  There is no way to keep the
poppet seated correctly inside the keg fitting with the barbed adapters I had
available.  I pondered the situation for a bit and then realized that this
was not a problem as I did not need it to maintain a seal, only to provide
enough resistance to open the liquid line fitting to allow fluid to pass.

I use the completed unit to flush my lines whenever I change kegs.  Simply
fill the sprayer with the cleaning solution of your choice, attach the liquid
line to the sprayer and pressurize the sprayer with the hand pump.  You can
now open the tap handle and flush the line using a bucket to collect the
outflow.  When the sprayer runs out of fluid, it will force air through the
line purging it.  I've even theorized that you *COULD* carbonate and dispense
beer this way, but haven't had the desire to test this theory (let's see -
how many pumps to get to 30 psi ;-{>)

It's effective, relatively inexpensive to construct and doesn't require much
storage space (important beer gizmo / wife factor in my house).

Rich Scotty
"Given the most carefully controlled conditions, yeast will do as it damn
well pleases."

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Date: Tue, 16 May 95 10:07:40 EST
From: dsanderson at msgate.CV.COM
Subject: Using Weisse Yeast Without the Weissen


I was pleasantly surprised this morning when a friend and colleague from 
Munich unexpectedly appeared in my office and presented me 2 bottles of 
Schneider Weisse.

One bottle is for drinking, the other for culturing the unique Schneider 
yeast. 

In addition to trying to replicate a Schneider's Weissen(wheat) bier, I  
also plan to use it with 100% Barley Malts.

I'd be interested in comments or experience using a Bavarian Wheat yeast 
in a straight Barley brew? I am curious about how much of the 
distinctive Weisse flavor is contributed by the wheat and/or the yeast?

Dave


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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:19:40 -0400
From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (Dr. David C. Harsh)
Subject: Density of Water - Variation with Temperature

Determining the density of boiling wort is a bit of a problem since most
hydrometers for brewing use 60 F as a basis (i.e. sp gr = 1.0) so you have
to determine a correction from whatever temperature to 60 F.  For my
brewing, I've taken temperature-density data from J.P. Holman's _Heat
Transfer_ text (7th Edition, McGraw Hill, Table A-9), calculated specific
gravity relative to 60 F from the data and had the resulting graph with my
brewing stuff for some time.  The table below gives you a value to *add* to
your hydrometer reading at a given temperature to obtain a reading at 60 F:

Temp, F  Correction
  32      0.0012
  40      0.0012
  50      0.0006
  60      0.0000         Or if you are like me and like equations, the
  70     -0.0012        correction can be calculated from the Temp (F)
  80     -0.0028
  90     -0.0037
 100     -0.0056        Correction = 0.0014401 + 4.005E-5*T
 110     -0.0080                     - 1.1350E-6*T*T
 120     -0.0098
 130     -0.0129        (Correlation coefficient was 0.999;
 140     -0.0153           3rd order fit was no better)
 150     -0.0183
 160     -0.0213
 170     -0.0249
 180     -0.0284
 190     -0.0319
 200     -0.0354

This is more accurate and much easier than the ".002 to .003 per 10 degrees
F" correction that you read in Charlie P. and you don't have to wait for it
to cool!  FWIW, hopefully something.

Dave


*********************************************************
* Dr. David C. Harsh           Instructor/Lab Manager   *
* Department of Chemical Eng.  University of Cincinnati *
* Cincinnati, OH  45221-0171   (513) 556-2659           *
*                                                       *
* "A big hello to all intelligent life forms out there, *
*                and to everyone else                   *
*    the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys"    *
*********************************************************



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Date: Tue, 16 May 95 10:31:10 EDT
From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at cs010.NECTECH.COM>
Subject: Steeping Grains

In a recent post someone had a list of suggestions.  Number 7 made the most 
sense, add the grain to 170-175F water, 2quarts per lb, use a grain bag.  
The grain will chill the water down into the safe range so tannin 
extraction won't be a problem  The person that did a full mash was wasting 
time, there are no enzymes to convert any thing, the iodine test should be 
positive since the starch was converted to sugar in the malting house.  
Don't boil. the grain and do be concerned about the temp..

Lee

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Date:           Tue, 16 May 95 10:21 EDT
From: Gerald_Wirtz at vos.stratus.com
Subject:        Info wanted on 'going pro'.

     Anyone out there have any information on going professional? What I've
been considering doing is contract brewing for some local pubs in my area
and I was wondering what costs are involved in getting licensed to brew.
Besides the costs of equipment, which I can figure out for myself.

     Thanks - Future Contract brewer - Gerald J. Wirtz

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Date: Tue, 16 May 95 09:40:58 MDT
From: stevek at propwash.ncrmicro.ncr.com (Steve kemp)
Subject: Yeast starters, my $.02

Jim Blue asks:
 > >I've followed the thread on yeast starters and the advice to pitch just
 > after krauesen falls. But what's next best?
 > 
 > 	1. Do nothing to the starter, pitch the next day anyway.
 > 	2. Boil up "some" more dry malt extract, cool, and feed the starter.
 > (I don't know how much "some" should be for a 24-hour delay.)
 > 
 > Advice?
                                                       
can't tell you whats best, but will say that I generally get 4 batches out of 1
yeast packet. I usually pop it, let it puff up and then divide it between 2-4
quart size bottles of sterile wort. One of these is intended to be used within
a couple of days and the rest are fermented out and put into the fridge for a
later brew. Sometimes, though, my plans get changed ( kids, wife, glass water
for skiing, etc ) and I have used the starter up to 5 days later without
noticing any apreciable difference in the primary fermentation. The ones I put
in the fridge have sometimes stayed there for 4 months, and then they are
re-started, and sometimes split again before use. Yeast is neat stuff, kinda
like the Energizer(tm) Bunny, if you use sterile methods and keep temps within
their range, it just keeps on going and going, and going......
 
Steve Kemp
 
a great brewer once told me "The goal of brewing is to make the kind of beer you
                          like to drink for as cheap as possible!"   -John Todor
 
 


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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 11:45:42 -0400
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: High F.G.

Hi all!  I recently made a "large" stout with an O.G. of 1080
and after several attemps I can't seem to get it below 1028.
Here are the specific of this extract brew:
     #6.0  NW Dark LME
     #3.3  NW Amber LME
     #3.0  M&F Amber DME
     #1.0  M&F Wheat DME
     #1.5  steeped grain (crystal, black, choc.)

Day 0  SG=1080 Pitched fully expanded Wyeast European Ale yeast
Day 3  SG=1034            
Day 8  SG=1032 racked to secondary
Day 15 SG=1032 repitched 14 grams of dry Cooper's Ale yeast            
	       plus 1 tablespoon of yeast nutrient
Day 21 SG=1030 repitched 1 qt. starter of Red Star Champange yeast
Day 28 SG=1028

I know that I should have made a healthy starter in the beginning
but I have always had good luck with just using an expanded Wyeast
pack (although I have never asked one to tackle this large a brew!).

What next?????  Bottle it, or try something else?
(It has a nice finished taste now, and doesn't seem to want to 
go any lower but it just seems that 1028 is too high.)           


Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com         --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
 


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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 11:02:50 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Automagical Mail Frustrator

Oh, the pain of rejection.

Your article sent to homebrew is being rejected. The reason:
 --Contains  line(s) greater than 80 chars in length --

Related information:
> > them.  The humidity in the headspace of the bottle is enough to activate 
the O2

> > From: DSWPHOTO at aol.com
> > Subject: Trub removal ect.
> 
> > Can I let the wort settle, remove trub, them
> > pitch the yeast? It seems a long time to wait before pitching. 
> 
> I did that once, and ended up with an infection.  I pinched my nose, 
> pasteurized the stuff, and called it a "sour mash" stout.  I have developed
> a taste for it, but it was recently judged "undrinkable" at a homebrew
> competetion.  (Somehow it got an 18/50, which leads me to suspect the 
> dynamic range of that 50 point scale.  More like a 25 point scale, it seems.)
> 
> I've never had any off-flavors that I can attribute to trub.  I usually rack
> to a secondary within about 8 days.  Also, I use a hopback and full boils 
> every time.  
> 
> > From: Christopher.R.Vyhnal at Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
> > Subject: 02 caps, diacetyl, steeped hops
> > 
> > in hbd#1729 al writes:
> > 
> > >> Your local HB shop owner has it backwards: boiling O2-absorbing caps 
> > >> ruins them.  The humidity in the headspace of the bottle is enough to 
> > >> activate the O2 absorption. <<
> > 
> > if this is the case, it seems to me that their absorption capability would
> > decrease the longer they sit around before being used.
> 
> Not unless you store them in a humid place.  Water is needed to activate them.
> 
> -R
> 
> ps.  I better not find any jokes about "Extract brewing is for girls"
> on the next digest...

pps.  Sorry about that, I couldn't resist.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1733, 05/17/95