HOMEBREW Digest #1746 Thu 01 June 1995

Digest #1745 Digest #1747

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  unmalted wheat/Munich malt/CO2 temp compensation/carapils & iodine/bubbles during siphoning/splitting the HBD (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Gott with Phil's Phalse-bottom (Mark E. Lubben)
  Homebrewing in Japan... ? (Andrew Lundsten)
  RIMS e-mail (Art Steinmetz)
  Re: Hopsicle (Art Steinmetz)
  Sugar correction/Siphon bubbles/Tubing for steam (Philip Gravel)
  Recipe suggestions for 'Corona' beer. (Paul Hannah)
  'Normal' intake (nr706)
  re: Around & about (TArnott)
  Priming: Use mass/vol, not dry-vol/vol (David Draper)
  IPAs, US-UK (Jim Busch)
  A lot cheaper than an REM show, and tickets will sell out (uswlsrap)
  Liquid Yeast Viability (Hopz)
  Re: spontaneous siphon bubbles (Greg Owen {gowen})
  Re: Split HBD? (Michael Collins)
  Brewing to Styles/All grain vs. extract (Matt_K)
  re: kegging question (BigBrad)
  Re: bulk yeast starters (Ray Daniels)
  extract brewers, priming (Jim Dipalma)
  XXXL, Dark Star(ter), more style blather (Russell Mast)
  Re: Brewing and Styles (spencer)
  Re: Chimay Yeast for Belgian Pale Ale? (Douglas R. Jones)
  A&W rootbeer recipe?? (KJ Sullivan)
  CO2 regulator in fridge (Jeff Renner)
  RIMS, anyone? (spencer)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 95 16:47:00 -0500 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: unmalted wheat/Munich malt/CO2 temp compensation/carapils & iodine/bubbles during siphoning/splitting the HBD Jay writes: >On another subject, does anyone have the figures >on un-malted wheat? I'm looking for pts/lb/gal and >the color it contributes. I wouldn't think it adds to the >fermentables (?) but the unconverted starch should >add to the OG, shouldn't it? Colour contributions would be very low, less than 1.5 degrees L, I would guess and my estimation of the pts/lb/gal would be that the unmalted wheat would have slightly more contribution than malted wheat: practically speaking about 28 to 32 pts/lb/gal. Now, the main reason I posted, and took some guesses at your questions is your comment about fermentables. You *do* expect to mash this don't you? Well, then you will be creating fermentables. Just because the unmalted wheat won't have any enzymes to speak of, doesn't mean that its starch won't be converted to fermentable sugars and unfermentable dextrins by the enzymes of the barley malt in your mash. *** Bob writes (commenting on an extract brewer's post): >Use some Munich malt if you want more maltiness. Note it's important to mention that this was in response to an extract brewer's post. While it is true that Munich malt will give you more maltiness, it is bad advice to give to an extract brewer. Munich malt, like Pale Ale malt, Pilsner malt, wheat malt, etc., and all the unmalted grains, need to be *mashed*. At the least you would have to do a partial mash to get anything but starch haze from the aforementioned grains. *** Larry writes: >The kicker is that the regulator is a mechanical device that (essentially) >operates in the same way regardless of the temperature. If you set it to >deliver 17psi at room temperature, it will deliver 17psi at 45F, 55F, 85F, >105F, and so on. However, the amount of CO2 actually "delivered" to your >keg(s) will be significantly different. 17psi/70F is significantly LESS than >17psi/45F; the equivalent amount of CO2 is only about 10psi/45F. I don't think this is right. It may be less *moles* of CO2, but all we care about is pressure, not how many moles of gas were passed through the beer, right? >You have to interpret the reading on your CO2 pressure guage(s) based on the >ambient temperature of the gas. I believe this is wrong. I say ignore the high-pressure gauge until it begins to drop below 300 psi and use the low-pressure gauge at face value (i.e. no temperature compensation). I'd be interested in further discussion of this if there is some corroboration that temperature compensation is indeed necessary. *** Andy writes: >Nobody responded to the body of my post re: getting a dark purple iodine test >when steeping cara pils from Dewolf-Cosyns. should crystal malts give >positive starch tests when they are not mashed. The steep was at 170 F for >30 min. Dark *reddish* purple? If so, that could just be reaction to dextrins. Dextrins turn iodine reddish purple. Starch turns iodine pretty much black. Also, what about the grain mill that was used to crush the malt? Was it the store's mill which had just crushed 10 pounds of pale ale malt? I think that poorly-made crystal malts may have had significant residual unconverted starch in them (back when Dave Miller wrote his TCHoHB), but most of what we get these days appears to be of better quality. *** Steve writes: > Last night, I was getting ready to bottle a Pale Ale and was >siphoning from the secondary to the bottling tub (what's the "proper" >term for that?) and noticed something strange. Little bubbles were >forming in the hose. Just one little guy at first, rolling about >against the flow, then two, and more and more. I found I could sort >of chase them down to the tub by changing the curve of the hose, but >sure enough, in a minute or so, there's another one. This game >continued throughout the siphoning. IMBR? :^) > Seriously, though, what were these bubbles? CO2? O2? Air? The >"in" end of the hose was way down in the beer so it wasnt sucking air. The beer-geek phrase you seek is "racking to the priming tank," but yours is just as valid. This is CO2 coming out of solution. You will get more of these bubbles if the beer you are siphoning has been kept colder (more CO2 will be in solution). When the beer goes up the siphon to the top of the tube, there is a slight negative pressure in the hose just past the top and this will cause some of the dissolved CO2 to come out of solution. *** Michael writes: >I had a fleeting thought that I want to suggest to the group. What if we >split HBD into two: intermediate/extract brewers and all-grainers. General >brewing topics can be sent to either at the discretion of the posting >individual. This has been suggested before. The main argument against it is that both extract brewers and all-grain brewers contribute answers and both benefit from them. Splitting up the HBD would only dilute the knowledge base for both. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 18:21:19 -0400 From: mel at genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben) Subject: Gott with Phil's Phalse-bottom I recall a thread a while back about various plumbing systems for Gott coolers used as lauter tuns. I just thought I would throw my own experience in. I got a 10 gallon Gott cooler, and a Phil's Phalse-bottom. I followed the suggestions in the package. I used a 3 inch piece (only scrap I had) of rigid racking tubing through a stopper. I plugged that outward through the hole left by unscrewing the spigot from the Gott. I connected standard 3/8" brewing hose from the elbow on the Phalse-bottom to the rigid tube in the stopper. I connected a short piece of the same flexible hose from the outside end of the rigid tube to an inline valve, then some more hose to drop into the boiler. Everything looked wonderful dry... #1 The Phalse-bottom floats when you put in the dough-in water. This allows a little grain to get under it if you forget like I did. Remarkably, this didn't cause huge problems later, but I will use my stirring stick to hold it down as I add the first pound or two next time. HBDers have mentioned weighing the Phalse-bottom down too. The mash went well from that point until I hoisted the cooler up onto the board straddling between my boiler and a step ladder. #2 In the process I knocked off the outer hose. While trying to get the hose back on the 3/4 inch stub, I pushed the stopper back into the keg. By the time I had it all back together, I had about 3 pints of my first runnings on the ground and my pants :-O I guess it was better than on a hot kitchen stove though. In spite of this and running dry while heating a last batch of sparge water, I wound up at end of boil with 9-1/2 gallons of 1.046 wort which was oddly enough my exact gravity target... Not too bad for my first 10 gallon batch with 16-1/2 pounds of grain. I basically like the Gott with Phalse-bottom. I have only made one batch with it, but I only had to recirculate a quart or so for clear wort compared to a gallon or more with previous contraptions. I just figured I would warn other Phalse-bottom users to watchout for the connections on either side of the cooler wall. You may want to use one of those splice tubes with hose barbs on both ends to go through the stopper. Otherwise, use a long enough piece of rigid tubing (racking cane) that you can easily reseat the stopper from the outside by pulling on the hose or the wet rigid tubing if the warmed hose loosens and pulls off. Before someone suggests using one of those drum taps, I agree with the sentiment about not drilling, and keeping the multiyear Gott warranty. Mark Lubben (mel at genrad.com) === Extract brewing sure doesn't seem dumb to ME at 1AM === Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 18:18:27 -0700 (PDT) From: hamilton at micro.caltech.edu (Andrew Lundsten) Subject: Homebrewing in Japan... ? Brewing artisans and scholars- I have lurked here for a couple of months and thought I would toss out a request for info that I can't seem to find elsewhere on the net. The only thing that's kept me from brewing my first batch (yes, a homebrew virgin) is my imminent departure to Japan. I have been told that homebrewing exists in Japan, and I don't think it's limited to moonshine or sake, but apparently it has a very limited following. If anyone out there knows anything at all about brewing in Japan, please contact me via private email. Although I am moderately content drinking Japanese mass-produced beer (compared to my disgust with American high-volume crap), I'd much prefer to begin making my own. I've thought about sticking to cider until I return, but I'd like to retain some of my stomach lining, too. Thanks in advance, Andrew Lundsten hamilton at micro.caltech.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 22:10:43 EDT From: (Art Steinmetz) Subject: RIMS e-mail Someone was asking about e-mail addresses for RIMS vendors. Try East Coast Brewing Supply (kbjohns at escape.com) or SABCO (BOB SULIER 71324.273 at compuserve.com). - -- Art asteinm at pipeline.com 76044,3204 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 21:57:24 EDT From: (Art Steinmetz) Subject: Re: Hopsicle >...instead of drying his hops he freezes them. > > 1. Take a typical hop weight you would use for a batch. Fresh hops has a much higher moisture content, and therefore weight, than dry hops. At the very least you'd have to correct for that. Many people just use homegrown hops for fininshing/dry hopping since alpha acid determination is impractical. - -- Art asteinm at pipeline.com 76044,3204 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 23:51 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Sugar correction/Siphon bubbles/Tubing for steam ===> Bob Devine writes about sugars: Basically a good article, but need some correction especially as it relates to fructose. > The "right handed" variation of glucose is called dextrose. True. The "right handed" enantiomer of glucose is the only one that is found naturally -- D-(+)-Glucose. It is dextrorotatory (rotates polarized light in right handed direction). The 'D' indicates that it is the right handed enantiomer and the '(+)' indicates that it turns polarized light to the right. > Fructose is also called levulose because that form rotates > light in a left handed direction. Yes, naturally occurring fructose is levorotatory (rotates polarized light in the left handed direction). It is D-(-)-Fructose, right handed enantiomer, but turns polarized light to the left. >sucrose / table sugar / cane sugar : > Sucrose is a disaccharide composed of one molecule > of glucose and one of fructose. More precisely, it is dextrose > plus dextrorotary fructose. This is incorrect. Sucrose is formed from glucose (dextrose) and fructose (levulose). The dextrorotatory version of fructose is not found in nature. > It must be broken apart before > the yeasts can use it. When heated in an acidic solution > (such as wort) the sugar is inverted to make D-(+)-glucose > and D-(-)-fructose. Yeasts will invert the sucrose if it is not > already in that form before using by using invertase. This may be a matter of semantics, but it's important. The sugars themselves (sucrose, glucose, fructose) are not inverted. Only the rotation of light is inverted. Sucrose is dextrorotatory. When hydrolyzed to glucose and fructose, it turns out that the levorotatory power of fructose is greater than the dextrorotatory power of glucose. As a result the fructose/glucose solution is levorotatory. Thus, the rotation of light of a sucrose solution (dextrorotatory) is inverted in the hydrolyzed solution (levorotatory). Hence the name, invert sugar for the fructose/glucose solution. Again, the sugars themselves are not inverted, only the rotation of light. >Invert sugar : > This is simply sucrose (aka, table sugar) that has been > subjected to "hydrolysis" which breaks the disaccharide > sucrose into its constituent sugars. > The fructose is inverted (made into its optical isomer). See the previous explanation. In the process of hydrolyzing sucrose, fructose is *not* inverted from one optical isomer to the other. This is a misstatement. The fructose in both sucrose and invert sugar is D-(-)-Fructose. (Note that for fructose to be inverted from one optical isomer to the other, 3 stereo centers (I believe) *all* have to be inverted, not just one.) ===> STEVE GRIMMER asks about spontaneous siphon bubbles: > Last night, I was getting ready to bottle a Pale Ale and was >siphoning from the secondary to the bottling tub (what's the "proper" >term for that?) and noticed something strange. Little bubbles were >forming in the hose. Just one little guy at first, rolling about >against the flow, then two, and more and more. I found I could sort >of chase them down to the tub by changing the curve of the hose, but >sure enough, in a minute or so, there's another one. This game >continued throughout the siphoning. IMBR? :^) > Seriously, though, what were these bubbles? CO2? O2? Air? The beer in your secondary is saturated with CO2 at temperature. As the beer flows through the siphon tube, the pressure drops and the dissolved CO2 comes out of solution. If the flow is slow enough, the bubbles will collect in the high point in the tubing. Where the tubing meets the racking cane, there is a discontinuity in the surface. This causes to turbulence in the flow and further causes CO2 to come out of solution. ===> Art Steinmetz asks about silicone hose and steam injection: >I'm constructing a steam injection mash system (SIMS) along the lines >of the BT article. Making the steam line entirely of copper is >impractical since this is a system I have to break down after brewing >and if my 3-yr old twins get a hold of it (in it's cool state, of >course) it will be kink city. Therefore I'd like to use flexible hose >for most of the line length. > >The auto parts store has 1/4"ID "silicone vacuum hose." It's rated to >300 deg. F. at 25 in./Hg. of pressure (vacuum?). Obviously it's not >"food grade" but is it safe? It has a phenolic smell that may be from >a preservative coating. You might want to give polyethylene tubing a shot. It is the stiff, milky white tubing sold along with the clear, vinyl (Tygon brand) tubing in hardware stores. It can withstand higher temperatures than vinyl tubing and does not contain plasticizers. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 17:21:16 -1000 From: P.Hannah at cqu.edu.au (Paul Hannah) Subject: Recipe suggestions for 'Corona' beer. I am just starting out with brewing (~six months) and would like to make a clone of the Mexican beer Corona. I'm only using extract and would like a recipe along fairly simple lines. Also, I have a few questions that I'd like to ask: 1) I'm just ready to start a dark brew (Bock kit, 250ml drk malt extract, 1kg dried drk malt extract). Is there anything I should look out for, just recently I picked up the end of a thread on aeration and was wondering if this brew was in the danger zone and will require something like that. Also, what's the general thought regarding light, I'm brewing in glass on stools in my bedroom with blinds drawn (~50% drop in light), but am tempted to put garbage bags over the fermenters if need be. 2) I have two glass and one plastic fermenter, I was wondering if anyone uses plastic for the initial brew and then move to the glass? It would mean I could keep my brews moving on steadily and I would have thought that spending the small initial time in the plastic would be better than the other way round like the brew shop suggested? - --------- Paul Hannah E-mail: P.Hannah at cqu.edu.au Mathematics Department Phone : 61 79 30 9969 Central Queenland University Fax : 61 79 30 9729 Rockhampton QLD 4702 Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 04:41 CDT From: nr706 at mcs.com Subject: 'Normal' intake equinox at halcyon.com (Michael Collins) wrote: >I would say that I average 10-12 (12 oz) brews per week. That is not a >boast, but wonder whether that fits into a range comparable to other >brewers? I would appreciate some feedback on whether this is 'normal' One data point: The May issue of American Demographics has an article on "Who Drinks the Microbrews?" which states, among other things, that microbrew drinkers average "6.3 beers a week, compared with 4.7 a week for non-micro drinkers." Results were from a nationally representative sample of 1,519 adults in a telephone survey conducted Sept-Dec. 1994. That said, be aware that people commonly lie to survey interviewers. In most cases, they will underestimate their drinking if they perceive higher levels of drinking to be socially unacceptable. So take those numbers with a grain of ... well, maybe barley? - ---------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Tom Keith | Advertising, Promotion and New Product | Thomas Keith & Associates | Development for smaller companies and | 1016 Mulford Street | smaller divisions of large companies. | Evanston, IL 60202-3317 | Now! Multimedia and WWW development! | voice: 708-328-1282 +-----------------------------------------+ Fax: 708-328-2242 | check out our Web page | e-mail nr706 at mcs.com | http://www.mcs.com/~nr706/home.html | - ---------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 08:06:45 -0400 From: TArnott at aol.com Subject: re: Around & about Joseph.Fleming asks: > Q: What do y'all do with your hydrometer samples: drink 'em or toss 'em > back in the brew? How 'bout OG samples vs. FG samples? Man, it's almost > a pint! I don't know about anybody else, but I drink it. Makes for an interesting comparison with the final product (if I can remeber what it tasted like!) Waste not, want not (spill only a little). ted arnott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 23:06:01 +1000 (EST) From: David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Subject: Priming: Use mass/vol, not dry-vol/vol Dear Friends, there's been some talk lately about priming. In particular, the FAQ of how much to add to a {insert your usual volume here} -sized batch. This prompts me to get up on my soapbox to say: prime by mass of sugar per volume of liquid, NOT by dry volume of sugar per volume of liquid. That is, use ounces (weight, not volume--damn those screwed-up British engineering units!) per gallon or grams per litre rather than relying on 3/4 cup of corn sugar always having the same amount in it. Doing this, you get the same result every time, and have much better control over making subtle changes in your carbonation level should you so desire. Here is a set of values that I use; it is set up for both cane sugar (table sugar; sucrose) and corn sugar = glucose = dextrose (see Bob Devine's useful sugar postings a day or two ago), units are grams of sugar per litre of beer to be primed (conversions to non-metric units are left as an exercise for the reader): Sucrose Corn/dext/glucose Low-med. carb. 5.3 6.4 Med.-med/high 6.9 8.3 High carb 8.6 10.0 These numbers were sent to me by Brett Shorten long ago, and if my dim memory serves they originated in an article in Ausbeer magazine. Low-med carb beers are, for example, British ales, some American ales. Most lagers are in the Med. to med/high category. High carb speaks for itself. Example: If I have a beer I want to be about medium carbonated, I'll choose 8 gr dextrose per litre (I never use table sugar, just include it for completeness); if my batch is 23 L, then 8 * 23 = 184 gr of sugar to use in making up my priming solution. I know it is possible to work out the actual volumes of CO2 added, but have just come to use a set of amounts that give me what I want without having actually done the calculations. Note: this applies to priming with *sugar*; if you are krausening your beer (priming with gyle), different relations apply, and these have been summarized thoroughly in previous digests. This kind of approach (not original to me by any means) seems so obviously better that I just don't understand why it isn't the standard. OK, off my soapbox now, back to calculating the mouthfeel index of X grams mercury per litre of .... Cheers, Dave in Sydney - -- "...when you think about it, everything makes sense." ---Ginger Wotring ****************************************************************************** David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428 ....I'm not from here, I just live here.... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:22:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: IPAs, US-UK Ken writes about styles: <Further, I believe that we need new style catagories to reflect the new <styles currently brewed. For example, try an American IPA, same as the <English, but done with Americna hops and malt. Put the two styles in the <same class, let the best IPA win! This is not really true anymore, American IPAs bear little to no resemblence to the current UK versions. Sad, but true, UK IPAs are almost exclusively in the 1.038-1.044 range, with a touch more hops than a best bitter, maybe about 25 - 28 IBUs (actually it is another myth that English cask ales are very bitter, most are quite caramel/malty). Even in the historical sense, American IPAs bear little resemblence to the original IPAs. As in porters, US craft brewing is leading the way in traditional and revivalist brewing. It often amazes me on my beer travels to have to consistently defend US brewing, when in the US we make some of the most diverse, aggressive and creative beers. About the only area where style development is still needed is in the Belgian styles, but this is even getting better all the time. Jim Busch "DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:23:00 EDT From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: A lot cheaper than an REM show, and tickets will sell out 50+ breweries and brewpubs, 150-200 beers, a tasting glass for unlimited tasting at one price (none of those silly beer tokens), and meet the folks from the brewery--not some marketing rep who doesn't know s*it about the beer. Get to try special brews from some of the brewers that aren't available anyplace else. (Can Larry Bell top his Whiskey Stout or Cherry Larry??) Only $15! ($16 for phone orders with credit card). It's the Ninth Annual Great Taste of the Midwest in Madison, WI! August 12, Olin-Turville Park, across from the Coliseum. Tickets went on sale May 1. More than 2/3 of the 2500 tickets have left our hands over the month. We have only 700 left. Don't say we didn't warn you when you try to order late in June and find out they're gone. Information requests and orders: Send SASE to Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild, P.O. Box 1365, Madison, WI 53701-1365. Checks payable to MHTG. Credit card orders: 608.938.1985. If you've been once, you're gonna come back every year. Start a new beer tradition for yourself this year! Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com "People who drink light "beer" don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot" --quote stolen from Capital Brewery, Middleton (Madison), WI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:45:10 -0400 From: Hopz at aol.com Subject: Liquid Yeast Viability Dear friends of the Net... The question is- what is the probability that a Wyeast 1056 package that was popped about two months ago- and swelled-up... and left sitting in the air conditioned kitchen- would still be viable. The package is intact- and tight as a stuffed sausage. I expect it will work given a little time- but does anyone have experience in brewing interruptus? thanks- "the Hopz" guy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 06:55:14 PDT From: gowen at xis.xerox.com (Greg Owen {gowen}) Subject: Re: spontaneous siphon bubbles STEVE GRIMMER <S18312SG at umassd.edu> writes: > Little bubbles were > forming in the hose. Just one little guy at first, rolling about > against the flow, then two, and more and more. I found I could sort > of chase them down to the tub by changing the curve of the hose, but > sure enough, in a minute or so, there's another one. This game > continued throughout the siphoning. IMBR? :^) I've always believed that the bubbles were dissolved CO2 from the beer which would come out when at the point in my racking cane where the width of the hose changes -- not being a scientist, I sort of think there should be a pressure differential there, but I'm probably off base. If you were to, oh, stick your racking cane through a cork so that you didn't have to hold it, which would mean the pressure inside the carboy would drop as air wasn't getting in, then this problem would be a lot worse. Not that I'd do anything that stupid, of course, and it certainly wouldn't take me two days to figure out why my siphon wasn't working right if I did ;>. I don't think its a problem in a normal rack. I just clear the bubbles occasionally by twisting the hose. This post is almost 100% speculation/stuff I figured out, so I hope anyone with more of a clue will correct me if I'm wrong! - -- gowen -- Greg Owen -- gowen at xis.xerox.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 07:08:37 -0700 From: equinox at halcyon.com (Michael Collins) Subject: Re: Split HBD? > |I had a fleeting thought that I want to suggest to the group. What if we > |split HBD into two: intermediate/extract brewers and all-grainers. > > Jeez, just when the mercury thread was dying down! Before the posting > whirlwind begins, this idea is always bandied about and is correctly > dropped. Like I said, the thought was fleeting and I apologize for bringing it up. I did my homework and searched through HBD archives for 'split' and realized my error. _______________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 10:09:14 edt From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca Subject: Brewing to Styles/All grain vs. extract Message: Time to chime in on two of the more recent threads. In many of the recent posts re. brewing to style have pushed the idea that one needs to brew to a particular style in order to learn enough to produce predictable and repeatable results. While having your beers judged by an experienced judge may help to find and fix any problems my brew may have, the same thing can be accomplished by careful record keeping, experimentation and by asking questions. Now don't get me wrong. I have nothing against brewing to style and competitions but my point is just because someone has never brewed to style or entered a competition doesn't mean that he/she can't produce good, balanced and repeatable brews. As far as extract vs. all grain is concerned, the only thing I care about is the final product. I brew all grain but I have had some truly great extract based beers. The bottom line for both threads is that different people brew for different reasons and if someone else's reason doesn't jive with mine that doesn't make it better or worse than mine, just different! Matt in Montreal Suds..... gotta love'em -- Kenny King -- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 09:06:25 CDT From: BigBrad <BPLUMMER at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM> Subject: re: kegging question LBRISTOL of SYSUBMC.BMC.COM answered some questions about keeping your gas cylinder and regulator either in the cooler or outside in the elements. There was some very good info there but I know at least one consideration Larry left out. By removing the gas cylinder from the cooler, he made enough room to put one more keg of beer in. Come on Larry, 'fess up. Anxiously awaiting our Mid-Summer Houston Brew-Howdy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Brad Plummer \ / BMC Software, Inc. \ If this gets any better, I won't be / Houston, Texas \ able to guarantee the FULL 3 minutes. / bplummer at sysubmc.bmc.com \ / - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Many times I speak for BMC Software. This ain't one of 'em. Return to table of contents
Date: 31 May 95 10:17:08 EDT From: Ray Daniels <71261.705 at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: bulk yeast starters Subject: Re: bulk yeast starters >>>>> "Nigel" == Nigel Townsend <nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au> writes: Nigel> About four or five days before brewing, add the following Nigel> directly into a clean 5 gallon primary fermenter. Take a couple Nigel> of cups of DME, sugar or the like, throw in two sachets (each Nigel> described as suitable for 5 gallons) of dried yeast and about I Nigel> gallon of warm (previously boiled) water and shake Nigel> vigorously. Add the lid and air lock. On the brewing day, add Nigel> the wort and additional water directly to the primary fermenter Nigel> with the yeast starter already in it. If you are adding dry yeast, there isn't any reason to make a starter. One gram of dry yeast contains about 20 billion yeast cells (I've counted!). Ideally, you need about 200 billion cells for five gallons of "normal" gravity wort, so 10 grams of dry yeast gives you all the yeast you need. (This assumes the yeast is reasonably fresh and has been properly stored, of course.) If you want to jump start the yeast, proof it with water and then add a cup of cooled wort taken out at the beginning of the boil. You'll get a great ferment with this procedure! Further, Chris Strickland writes: Chris> 1) I use liquid yeast starters, but the dry yeast seems easier to use. Is Chris> there that much difference? For the cost of liquid yeast I could use three Chris> packages of dry yeast and maybe get a quicker first start. When using liquid yeast you MUST make a starter if you hope to have a decent ferment. A bloated pack of Wyeast contains 1 to 5 billion yeast cells. If you pitch one pack into a 1.040 O.G. one quart starter, you will wind up with about 20 billion cells in the starter (Again, I've counted.) We all know you can pitch the quarter starter and have a decent ferment, but it is way short of the yeast count you can deliver with just ONE packet of (fresh, properly stored) dry yeast. (Also way short of commercially recommended pitching rate of about 200 billion cells.) To answer your question, dry yeast IS easier to use. Faster too. But the selection of yeasts available in dry form is limited. Use of liquid yeasts allows you much greater variety to choose from. And, after all, it is the yeast that actually makes the beer, so variety in yeast selection allows you to achieve many more effects that you will ever be able to do with dry products. Ray Daniels Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 10:20:02 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: extract brewers, priming Hi All, In HBD#1745, Pat Babcock asks: >I don't believe there is anyone out there as an "all-grainer" who >exclusively brews all-grain batches, is there? Yep. Brewed my first all grain batch 3 years ago, have never used extracts since. >So stop with this 'I'm just an extract brewer' crap. Anyone who brews >is a brewer. We're all the same. And shame on the fool who looks down >on a fellow brewer for whatever reason. >The >challenge is only in making the best from what we have on hand. That >is where we exemplify ourselves. Amen to both those statements. I have a friend who's a BJCP National judge, and who's won several ribbons with extract and specialty grain brews. I certainly don't consider him 'just an extract brewer'. IMHO, anyone who cares enough about good beer to take the time and effort to brew their own is a kindred spirit. I wouldn't dis such a person just because their brewing procedures differ from mine. ************************************************************** David Wright asks: >I am an extract brewer who has also experienced foaming when adding >priming sugar prior to bottling. I have not been making a solution >with the priming sugar but just adding it straight into my beer. The >only foam I get is on the top of the beer in the bucket I use to >bottle from. I don't get any foam in the bottles themselves. Is there >a better way to do this? Yes, make a solution with the priming sugar. What's happening is the sugar granules are providing nucleation sites for the CO2, which comes out of solution and causes the foaming. >Also have been having a problem with over >priming lately (I have expanded three 5 ltr. mini kegs as of late). >What is the correct amount of priming sugar for a 5 gal. batch or >does it depend on the type of beer? Depends on the style, and on the method of packaging. I can't comment on the 5L minikegs, never used them, but I have primed batches in 5 gallon Corny kegs. The usual 3/4 cup priming sugar that's appropriate for bottling is too much for a 5 gallon Corny - 1/3 to 1/2 cup is about right. I suspect the same is true of 5L minikegs, the priming rate is something less than it would be for bottling. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 11:17:25 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: XXXL, Dark Star(ter), more style blather > From: Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov > Russell Mast: > |I've always found lurking about as exciting as drinking in moderation. > |It's okay, if you like that sort of thing. > > My new motto. Russell, wanna go in on T-shirts? It would have to be a really big shirt for both of us to fit, but I'm game. Someone asked if it was okay to use Dark extract for a starter. I've done it, and it worked fine for me. I think there probably are some reasons against it, especially with a lighter beer, but for a stout, I don't think there should be any problem. Martin Lodahl spake thusly : > Some brew to styles; some don't. Big deal. Absolutely. Can't we all just get along? (I still say extract is for sissies.) If you're brewing just to win prizes, that's too bad. If you don't read any more into brewing competetions than is actually there, they can be a valuable source of feedback even if you brew something truly unique. Someone asked about what "normal" consumption is. I only drink about once every two weeks, and then I drink one beer every 10 minutes until I pass out. After that, I only drink one every twenty minutes. All this stuff on styles gives me an idea, though. Maybe someone should sponsor a "free-style" competetion, where we just dole out scores based on overall impression (give or take a mood or whim). Or maybe we could just give verbal descriptions, and not even numerically rank these beers. Yeah, that might be a good idea. And I'll be the only judge, and all of you can send me a couple bucks and a couple bottles and I'll live it up. Whadda y'all say? -R Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 10:39:08 EDT From: spencer at med.umich.edu Subject: Re: Brewing and Styles A couple of comments on your posting. You are right: styles evolve, especially in the US right now. And one can argue categories & sub-categories ad nauseum. In fact, this happens on an almost daily basis in the Judgenet Digest. The current AHA categories are convenient for competition organizers to use, as then we don't have to think up our own. Sure, they're not perfect, and they do change from one year to the next. But there's absolutely no reason (other than laziness :-) that any given competition can't design and use their own categories. For example, the Michigan state fair has 12 categories. On IPAs: the current AHA IPA style allows both British and American IPAs. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:39:50 -0500 From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) Subject: Re: Chimay Yeast for Belgian Pale Ale? >I'm planning on brewing a Belgian Pale Ale (a la Celis Pale Bock) in a >couple of weeks. I've read Jeff Frane's series on brewing Belgian beers, and >was planning on using the Brewtek CL-300 yeast. But then a friend of I split >a bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve last night... I'm culturing it now, and >wondering if it would be at all an appropriate choice. > >All comments appreciated. Thanks! >Jim Ancona jpa at iii.net janco at dbsoftware.com Jim: While this may be an appropriate yeast for the style, I can tell you with some confidence that Celis uses British Whitbread, ala Wyeast 1098, in their Pale Bock. Doug - -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones at iex.com - -------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 08:47:48 -0600 From: KJ Sullivan <kj at nts.gssc.com> Subject: A&W rootbeer recipe?? Hi all, I recently ran across a free A&W rootbeer card which listed the ingredients... Anybody have a recipe?? >From their card: "A & W is the original creamy old-fashioned Root Beer. THis delicious beverage has been made for 70 years with the same formula, using a blend of the following heathful & nat- ural roots, barks and herbs: Wintergreen Leaves - Sethres Root Angelica Root - Wild Cherry Bark - Spikenard Birch Bark - Sarsaparilla Root - Anise Seed Made fresh daily & caffine-free. (Sugar-free made with saccharin.)" So... anybody got a recipe that follows these ingredients?? If you do.. I would like a copy via email :-) thnx, kj Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 11:02:38 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: CO2 regulator in fridge Lee Bristol suggests that you will get different CO2 levels in your beer at the same psi setting depending on whether you keep the tank and regulator in the fridge or out: >Of more importance (to me, anyway) is the fact that the pressure >guage(s) on your regulator will give dramatically different readings >depending on the gas temperature, and you need to adjust your pressure >calculations accordingly <snip>... The readings on the low pressure >(output) side of the regulator are similarly effected. > >The kicker is that the regulator is a mechanical device that >(essentially) operates in the same way regardless of the temperature. >If you set it to deliver 17psi at room temperature, it will deliver >17psi at 45F, 55F, 85F, 105F, and so on. However, the amount of CO2 >actually "delivered" to your keg(s) will be significantly different. >17psi/70F is significantly LESS than 17psi/45F; the equivalent amount of >CO2 is only about 10psi/45F. I don't think so. This last statement is strictly true, but it doesn't affect the problem here. The pressure inside your keg is what your gauge is measuring and your regulator is regulating. As the temperature of the delivered CO2 quickly drops to the ambient fridge temperature, it will drop in pressure, and the regulator will deliver more gas, resulting in the exact same equilibrium as if the tank were in the fridge and delivering cold gas at the same psi. You won't need to adjust the pressure setting at all. Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 11:34:35 EDT From: spencer at med.umich.edu Subject: RIMS, anyone? Warning: EE techno-babble ahead! I got a flyer in the mail yesterday about a design contest using the Motorola 68HC705J1A chip. This is a processor designed for embedded applications (such as a RIMS controller??). It's a "one-time programmable" chip, with 1.2K of ROM and 64 bytes of RAM, and lots of other neat features (timer, LED drivers, etc.). The grand prize is a 1996 Ford Explorer. You can get a kit, complete with entry info, from your nearest Motorola distributor. Call 1-800-765-7795 x817 for the distributor nearest you. You can't enter if you work for Motorola or Ford. Now back to brewing... =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1746, 06/01/95