HOMEBREW Digest #1745 Wed 31 May 1995

Digest #1744 Digest #1746

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Chimay Yeast for Belgian Pale Ale? (Jim Ancona)
  Re: bulk yeast starters (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Pssst: extract brewer. ("Pat Babcock")
  Keg Source in Madison WI (Steve Seaney)
  subscibe me (JPinero111)
  Re: Large Yeast Starters (Chris Strickland)
  The Sparge from Hell (Mark Roberson)
  unpopular threads ("Keith Royster")
  Re: Please post to rec.crafts.brewing (Mark R. Garti)
  Priming foam ("David Wright")
  Hg (harry)
  CO2 Pressure ("Tom Williams")
  Sanitation (Steven W. Schultz )
  Growler Information (Alton Clark Dubois)
  Style/Extract threads (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  HBD balkanization redux (Joseph.Fleming)
  Brewing and Styles (Ken Schroeder)
  Re: Ginger Ale (Jeff Benjamin)
  XG Samples/Quayle/Creativity/Missing Man Formation ("Pat Babcock")
  Re: Copper good for yeast? (Al Gaspar)
  Cleanliness is Next to Beerliness (John DeCarlo              )
  why enter contests (Btalk)
  RE Style, and hop flavor (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  Raspberry Beer (Library Circulation #5)
  Brewpub and Micro Recommendations (calbick)
  Re: Styles Another View (StanM13541)
  fruit beer yeasts/CO2 tanks/bock colour/hot primings/big starter (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 12:31:38 -0400 From: jpa at iii.net (Jim Ancona) Subject: Chimay Yeast for Belgian Pale Ale? I'm planning on brewing a Belgian Pale Ale (a la Celis Pale Bock) in a couple of weeks. I've read Jeff Frane's series on brewing Belgian beers, and was planning on using the Brewtek CL-300 yeast. But then a friend of I split a bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve last night... I'm culturing it now, and wondering if it would be at all an appropriate choice. All comments appreciated. Thanks! Jim Ancona jpa at iii.net janco at dbsoftware.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 May 95 10:20:18 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: bulk yeast starters >>>>> "Nigel" == Nigel Townsend <nigelt at delm.tas.gov.au> writes: Nigel> I am looking for ways to reduce the time for producing beer and Nigel> reducing the opportunities for infection. I therefore wonder Nigel> if anyone has done the following, designed for a 5 gallon Nigel> batch, and was it successful? Nigel> About four or five days before brewing, add the following Nigel> directly into a clean 5 gallon primary fermenter. Take a couple Nigel> of cups of DME, sugar or the like, throw in two sachets (each Nigel> described as suitable for 5 gallons) of dried yeast and about I Nigel> gallon of warm (previously boiled) water and shake Nigel> vigorously. Add the lid and air lock. On the brewing day, add Nigel> the wort and additional water directly to the primary fermenter Nigel> with the yeast starter already in it. I am not a yeast guru by any means, but I see a problem here. By starting yeast out in a small quantity of starter wort and shaking it up often to oxygenate, you keep the yeast in their multiplication phase. When they are just about to go into alcohol production (usually the next day), you dump them into fresh wort in a larger size, shake often again and keep them in multiplication phase. What you are suggesting will, IMHO, get you a much smaller population of yeast and they will be in hibernation, all spent. What you really want is a huge population still multiplying to beat the band. Disclaimer: I *am* aware that all phases of the life cycle goes on in a batch almost simultaneously, but I refer above to the major life cycle step occurring to most of the yeast at any one time. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 13:23:38 +0000 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Pssst: extract brewer. Ok, ok! Enough of this covert extract brewer stuff! I'm out of the closet with the following: ALL GRAIN BREWER AND PROUD!!! EXTRACT BREWER AND PROUD!!! Hell, I'll even go as far as to say... PRE-HOPPED KIT BREWER AND PROUD!!! (I'll stop there. Never did 'beer in a bag', and never will. Sorry. Gotta draw the line somewhere ;-) I don't believe there is anyone out there as an "all-grainer" who exclusively brews all-grain batches, is there? One of my FAVORITE brews resulted from a designed experiment for a graduate school class: I brewed 40 gallons of beer from Munton & Fisons Nut Brown Ale kit. This stuff ranged from great to downright excellent as time progressed (Last keg in the fridge now - 6 months old. It is incredibly clean and smooth! A testament to aging! - but I digress!). Even now, alongside the 'mighty' all-grain 'Up the Oatmeal Creek WITH a Paddle Stout' batch bubbles a 'Laissez-Man's Lager'. The lager is based on a Mahogany Coast American Lager kit with 2# amber DME and 2# corn sugar as adjuncts; judiciously hopped with Hallertau. Pitched with Yeast Labs L34 St. Louis Lager in the primary; an Orval culture was pitched into the seconday to visit during this coming month's lager. Kind of like what beer would have been like if a German brewer moved into a rich Belgian neighborhood... I digress again! Kits are great to get a hint of what an unfamiliar style might taste like. And they can also make a nice nucleus for an excellent recipe - like a soup starter! Extracts are magnificent for those times when your lagering cabinet is empty and time is scarce. They are VERY convenient. I believe all but the most die-hard 'all-grainer' use extracts to some extent - OG bolstering, bottle/keg priming, in their milk (Try it! Its' great!). And, the character of some extracts cannot be readily duplicated in the mash tun as well. Anyway, the point of all this is not that 'all-grainers' are the elite. Hell, anyone who makes a better beer than me is 'elite' - no matter from whence their wort derives. (And, by that definition, there's a lot of elite brewers out there! A whole lot!) So stop with this 'I'm just an extract brewer' crap. Anyone who brews is a brewer. We're all the same. And shame on the fool who looks down on a fellow brewer for whatever reason. (Even the brewers in the employ of the big boys want to make better beer. Marketing just won't let them. You oughta see what comes from their research labs!) The challenge is only in making the best from what we have on hand. That is where we exemplify ourselves. And in not being the only one to like our own beer ;-) So brew on! "Drink all you want - I'll brew more!" Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock | "Yup, Kit's (Anderson) a brewer... President, Brew-Master | What he isn't is a woman." - Dan Hall and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 May 95 12:57:57 CDT From: Steve Seaney <seaney at pwrtrn1.me.wisc.edu> Subject: Keg Source in Madison WI Hello, I want to cutoff a few kegs top make a 3-tier system. Can anyone recommend a good source of scrap kegs near Madiosn, WI? Thanks, Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 16:16:21 -0400 From: JPinero111 at aol.com Subject: subscibe me Please subscibe me. Thank you. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 19:31:47 -0400 From: cstrick at iu.net (Chris Strickland) Subject: Re: Large Yeast Starters > About four or five days before brewing, add the following directly into a > clean 5 gallon primary fermenter. Take a couple of cups of DME, sugar or > the like, throw in two sachets (each described as suitable for 5 gallons) > of dried yeast and about I gallon of warm (previously boiled) water and > shake vigorously. Add the lid and air lock. On the brewing day, add the > wort and additional water directly to the primary fermenter with the yeast > starter already in it. Hmmm! This sounds like a good idea. since I make three or four batches from the yeast cake of a previous batch I really don't see much of a difference. The only problem I would see is making sure that the wort is 90F or lower before putting into the carboy. I'd like to throw some more questions to add to this. 1) I use liquid yeast starters, but the dry yeast seems easier to use. Is there that much difference? For the cost of liquid yeast I could use three packages of dry yeast and maybe get a quicker first start. 2) What about mixing Liquid and Dry yeast during the initial batch? - -------------- Chris Strickland cstrick at iu.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 19:26:15 -0600 From: roberson at hydroxide.chem.utah.edu (Mark Roberson) Subject: The Sparge from Hell Brewers, I'd like some help from the collective wisdom of the homebrew community. On Saturday I put together a batch of porter using my standard recipe #10 pale malt #1 victory #1 chocolate malt 40/60/70 mashing schedule No adjucts or anything, and I gave it what I thought was a fairly coarse grind in my phillmill. This has worked beautifully for the past 30 batches; the only thing I did different this time was that I use deWulf-Cosyns malt instead of my usual Briess or Munton&Fison. After drawing about two gallons of wort I was left with six gallons of glue at the bottom of the lauter tun: totally useless. Does anyone have any ideas as to what might have gone wrong? Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 09:05:33 EST From: "Keith Royster" <Royster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us> Subject: unpopular threads Paul Patino and others write pleading for other HBD'ers to drop the mercury thread. While I personally agree that nothing new has been contributed to this thread in quite a while, I also don't feel it is my place, or anyone elses, to decide what gets discussed and for how long (as long as it is remotely brewing related, which the mercury thread is). It is my view that the HBD threads can take care of themselves, without the need for others to tell us what should and should not be discussed. If a topic has no value to anyone else on the HBD, then the poster will eventually tire of being the only contributor to the discussion and the thread will die. Otherwise, if the thread continues, then some brewers are obviously gaining something from it. If you aren't gaining anything from the discussion, then fine, move on to the next post. But don't waste BW telling others to drop the subject. +------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Keith Royster, E.I.T. | He that buys land buys many stones, | | Environmental Engineer | He that buys flesh buys many bones, | | NC-DEHNR / Air Quality | He that buys eggs buys many shells, | | (704) 663-1699 | He that buys good ale buys nothing | | Royster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | else. - Medieval English Song | +------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 09:13:22 EDT From: mrg at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark R. Garti) Subject: Re: Please post to rec.crafts.brewing Glatt Mill for Sale: Time to upgrade my mill - I'm selling my Glatt Mill for $60 (which includes postage and handling, and that's less than 1/2 price of a new one!). It features adjustable rollers, and conveniently allows a power drill hookup to automate cranking. Please reply to msmail8.dombrosk at tsod.lmig.com, as the person posting this message is simply doing so as a favor. Thanks! kevin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 09:24:35 EST5EDT From: "David Wright" <LSMAIL at osp.emory.edu> Subject: Priming foam I am an extract brewer who has also experienced foaming when adding priming sugar prior to bottling. I have not been making a solution with the priming sugar but just adding it straight into my beer. The only foam I get is on the top of the beer in the bucket I use to bottle from. I don't get any foam in the bottles themselves. Is there a better way to do this? Also have been having a problem with over priming lately (I have expanded three 5 ltr. mini kegs as of late). What is the correct amount of priming sugar for a 5 gal. batch or does it depend on the type of beer? Thanks David Wright Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 09:36:38 -0400 From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry) Subject: Hg A quick question. Should Mercury be added to the boil, just after boiling, or to the secondary? Harry .............................................. "If it bleeds, we can kill it!"- Arnold S. .............................................. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 10:11:19 EST From: "Tom Williams" <twilliams at CCGATE.UECI.COM> Subject: CO2 Pressure In HBD #1743 Larry Bristol writes about observing a lower CO2 bottle pressure when the bottle is chilled. Actually, Larry's gauge is pretty accurate. Liquid CO2 in a closed container will exist at it's saturation pressure corresponding to the temperature (there are tables containing this data, if anyone is interested, let me know). At 70F, the saturation pressure of CO2 is 852.4 psia, and at 45F, it is 608.9 psia (594 psig). Larry is correct that after chilling in his refrigerator there is no less CO2 than before, in _pounds_ (or kg for you metric types), but the pressure is reduced because of the temperature. Now for some educated speculation: I think that the _amount_ of CO2 delivered (in pounds) will not vary significantly with the temperature of the supply bottle, since the flow of CO2 into the keg is determined by the pressure downstream of the regulator. If we assume that the CO2 quickly reaches the bulk keg temperature when it flows into the keg, then only the mass of CO2 required to reach the regulator set pressure will be delivered, regardless of the supply pressure. Tom Williams Norcross, Georgia Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 10:21:49 EDT From: Steven W. Schultz <swschult at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> Subject: Sanitation Since someone wanted to start a thread on sanitation, here's my two cents worth. About half of my first 10 batches were contaminated, due to - in my opinion - sloppy procedures and/or dry yeast. Since I switched to liquid yeast, I ruined only one out of the next 30 batches-- and this one ruined batch was clearly as a result of my going "Dumb in a No-Dumb Zone." I forgot to pop the yeast packet until the night I boiled the malt extract; in fact, I popped the yeast packet at the same time I started my boil. The lag time was almost a week, and by that time the wild yeast had taken hold. The beer is just one step above "throw it out," but is okay for steaming crabs in the summer. It may also be good for a slug trap, but I haven't tried it. While the above is hardly controversial (unlike my P.J. O'Rourke quote) my approach to bottle sanitation may be: I don't sanitize bottles. I gave it up, after getting tired of all the time and effort it required. Here's what I do: after drinking a beer, I twice fill the bottle half-full, put a thumb over the hole, shake it, then let the water run out. The bottles sit, upside down on a dish-drainer, and later, on a bottle tree. They are thus dry, and protected from airborne things falling into them. (By the way, that dead bat story almost made me barf!) When I bottle, I wipe or blow off any visible particles or dust from the mouth of the bottles, and use them as is. Since I use oxygen- absorbing caps, I have an excuse not to boil them. I used to soak them in an iodophor solution, but I have also given that up, with no ill effects. I think perhaps one bottle out of the last few hundred was mildly contaminated-- that's all. I think the key may be to worry more about wort than beer, because the former is far easier to contaminate than the latter. That's why, when I use my immersion wort chiller, I completely cover the kettle with a kettle cover and aluminum foil. Well, that's it. No need to babble on forever. Anyone wishing to share their sanitation shortcuts with me, I am more than receptive; send them to me, please! ;-) Steve Schultz Abingdon, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 09:54:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Alton Clark Dubois <CRFDUBOISAC at CRF.CUIS.EDU> Subject: Growler Information I am planning on using one of those *Growlers* for botteling some of my beer. It has a *Grolscg-type* closure that's larger than the regular *Groslch-type* closures. Does anyone have a resource that I can contact in order to obtain relaplce rubber gaskets that are approximately 3/4" across? Please reply to my internet address. Thanks in advance. Alton Clark Dubois email: CRFDUBOISAC at CRF.CUIS.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 11:49 EDT From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS) Subject: Style/Extract threads After reading sveral of these, I just gotta add my $.02: Regarding styles: When I started brewing a year-and-a-half ago, I made a basic brown ale (isn't that what most people started with?). After enjoying those 40 bottles (16oz.ers) of a very good first attempt, I started reading everything that I could one all of the beer styles that I have come to know and love at my favorite watering hole. Next, I tried making a steam (excuse me, "California Common"), a stout, a pale ale and a fruit/wheat beer. I soon realized that with careful attention to detail, and by knowing your ingredients well enough, most styles of beer can be acurately reproduced by an extract homebrewer. But I am suprised at how many homebrewers do not familiarize themselves with the basic style parameters of the major types of beer. If you brew, and you are happy with the beer you make, great! But if you want to move beyond impressing yourself and your beer-swilling friends, take a few of your best and enter them into a competition. Let someone who knows good beer evaluate your product. But be forwarned that you will have to place it into a style catagory. If it is one of those black-as-night-no-light-comes-through-types, It probably won't do well as a pale ale :-) But knowing styles can help. I tried to make an extract-based Pilsner Urequell clone; it is good, but nowhere near malty or hoppy enough to stand up to some all-grain Czeck Pils beers. I rethought what I had done, and entered it as an American Light lager in the TRASH V competition...it took first place! Fine beer (many award-winning brews actually) can be made with extracts. But we, as the endline consumers of malt extracts, need to put some pressure on the manufacturers of these products for more information about content, color, type of malt(s) used, and the process itself. I am perplexed about how Northwestern Gold is darker in color than NW Amber, and that Alexanders Pale is lightyears lighter than any other extract syrup on the planet. Premier Rice Extract syrup shows a mug of straw-colored beer on the cover of the can, but the syrup inside is chocolate brown. And M&F Light is only marginally lighter than M&F Amber. What Gives? How about some truth in labeling...an informed consumer is the best customer enough ranting...who's got a cold one Curt Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 11:17:55 est From: Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov Subject: HBD balkanization redux Michael Collins: |I had a fleeting thought that I want to suggest to the group. What if we |split HBD into two: intermediate/extract brewers and all-grainers. Jeez, just when the mercury thread was dying down! Before the posting whirlwind begins, this idea is always bandied about and is correctly dropped. |lost a job once for printing labels on the work laserwriter (a one time |offense when my home computer was down). ... |I have tried to make the personal choice not to care what others deem |moral and to drink a beer everyday (I mean everyday). I like you Michael. This post was about consumption; interestingly my beer consumption has gone *down* since consuming better and homebrewed beers. Being a reformed Coors Light-er (shame) and bulk imbiber (go with your strengths), I guess I just get the same amount of malt in one homebrew than in three megabrews. Yet another hymn sung to the virtues of homebrew. Rick Gontarek: |Grated lemon peel from 2 lemons (do *not* use the bitter white pith) As if this post wasn't peripheral enough, Rick could you explain the 'zesting' procedure? I tried Pete's Summer Brew and found its best quality to be the exact amount of lemon to my taste. I'd like to take a shot at your brew. |Owner/brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery My favorite homebrewery name. Joe - joseph.fleming at gsa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 09:20:34 PDT From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder) Subject: Brewing and Styles It seems we have opened a new thread which probably won't die for awhile: Beer styles! I agree with the general comments that brewing to style can be limiting. But I also agree that brewing to style improves brewing skills. It is also necasarry to have a common set of guidelines in order to judge any craft such as brewing. I believe the real problem, is the style definitions. IMHO NONE of the the current national organizations have kept up with the current styles being developed, especially in the US. IMHO there is something amiss when English-style Pale Ale is a catagory of it's own and American Pale Ale is a sub-catagory with American Wheat as the other sub-catagory in the American-style Ale class. How does SNPA and Blue Heron (Mendicino Brewing) belong in the same sub-class AND in a class with any American Wheat? Shouldn't ALL Pale Ales be in a common class sub-divided by the subtle diffences which define a sub-classification? Shouldn't All wheat beers be in a common class? After all if we are looking for the best Pale in any given competition, why aren't they judged together? Pales and wheats are not the only catagory to suffer from hodge podge style classifications. Further, I believe that we need new style catagories to reflect the new styles currently brewed. For example, try an American IPA, same as the English, but done with Americna hops and malt. Put the two styles in the same class, let the best IPA win! There are several "new" styles, such as this, which are begging to be defined. New styles, focuses a particular trend in brewing allowing for refinement of the new style and divergence into new trends. The current style definitions are limiting and do not reflect the creativity of current brewing practices both at home and commercially. The problem may be in getting a concensous for style definitions. It is an enormous task to get the diverse opinions of beer judges and oganizaton leaders to reach consenous. Witness the beer judges and the AHA stituation. I applaude the competitions which take control of their own event and re-classify styles to make better sense. Some of these competitions even introduce new styles! I personally like what the Mayfair contest (Maltose Falcons) has done with style defintion and classification. It may be benificial for competitions to attempt style re-classifications and new style definitions. What works and doen't work can be used to help correct the current situation. It may not be perfect, but it is better than waiting for a national (international?) group to reach consensous. Now that I've said my piece, maybe an intelligent debate may start. ;-] All comments are heartly welcomed ( I got thick skin and have burnt myself many times on my boil tun. This conversation can't hurt that much.) Ken Schroeder Sequoia Brewing kens at lan.nsc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 10:48:58 MDT From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: Ginger Ale Time for a repost of my ginger ale recipe. This one is for a soda-pop- like ginger ale, not a beer flavored with ginger (although that can be good too; I like Oliver Grillmeyer's Honey Ginger Ale out of the Cat's Meow). I have no idea on the historical origins of this recipe, although I imagine that drinks of this sort, with various flavorings, have been made for hundreds of years. Real root beer and sasparilla fall into the same category. This recipe produces a slight amount (perhaps 0.5-1%) of alcohol. Alternatively, if you have a kegging setup, you can force carbonate to make no-alcohol ginger ale. 2l PET bottles and a Carbonater (tm, no affiliation, etc.) cap work great for this. Ginger Ale 1 gallon water 1 pound white sugar (either granulated or corn will do) 1/2 oz cream of tartar 1 oz grated ginger 1 lemon your favorite ale yeast Boil water, stir in sugar, cream of tartar, ginger, and zest of lemon (yellow part of peel). Cool to pitching temperature (<75F), add juice of lemon. Transfer the whole mess to a sanitized fermentation vessel, pitch yeast, and cap with an airlock. Bottle after 48 hours, using strong bottles (champagne or 2l soda pop bottles work well). Let condition at room temperature for 2-3 days, then refrigerate. Helpful Hints: - You can use more ginger (up to 3-4 oz per gallon) to get spicier ginger ale. - The jury is still out on whether it is necessary to peel the ginger. I peel it simply because it's easier to grate that way. - Don't second guess the fermentation time, and don't be worried if the air lock is still perking after 48 hrs. If you let it go past 48 hrs, you will probably end up with somewhat flat, not-very-sweet soda. - Please don't use regular beer bottles. Champagne bottles are much stronger. 2l PET bottles work very well because you can squeeze them to see how carbonated they are, and relieve pressure if you're worried. - Make sure you store the ginger ale in the fridge. This will help minimize any unwanted further fermentation. - Make in small quantities and drink soon, within a month or so. The refrigerating will *minimize* fermentation, not stop it, so eventually you will run the risk of gushers or grenades. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Think! It ain't illegal yet." -- George Clinton Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 13:07:51 +0000 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: XG Samples/Quayle/Creativity/Missing Man Formation Hello, fellow brew buds! >In HBD 1743 (Lots to do in the warm months! Behind on my HBDs!), >Brother Joseph Fleming inquires after the disposition of OG, SG, FG >samples et al... Well, Joe. I simply drink them. Unless there's something fuzzy on top, then I shove the thing aside and drink it. Really! There is no better way to understand the miracle that is brewing besides stealing a sample along the way! Watch as the amazing Diacetyl disappears! Be amaxed by the mystical mellowing bitterness! Ooo and Aaaah over the ever evolving esters! (HINT: Don't sample so much along the way that you have nothing to bottle. If this happens, double your batch size;-) >In the same message, Brother Joe unwittingly revives the old potato >thread... Isn't that spelled 'p-o-t-a-t-o-e'? Do you have to pre-boil them to fully gelatinize them? Should I mash them before I mash them? How come everyone's looking at me funny? >And, in 1741, Brother Lee Bussy (Look, Lee! No free 'e' this time!) >braves the flame throwers to bash the style bashers... Well put, Lee, if not sorta militantly... I'm first in line to lend you some asbestos shorts. Gee! If enough of us join in on this, they can stack us up like cord-wood! E tu, Russell (in 1743)? Anyway: I believe the 'Creativity' piece was well written, and told a point of view not often heard in the 'die-hard' brewing circles; but acknowledged for its existence. Myself? I feel without the style guidelines, I have little hope in _truly_ understanding the interaction in all things beer - What malts contribute what flavor/color/feel component? What causes one hop to be favorable over another with what grain bill? This is what brewing to style teaches us - Why reinvent the wheel when everything you need/want to learn is contained within particular styles? I'm not one for 'kludging' a bunch of grains, adjuncts, and hops together and playing blind roulette in the results. I have distinct likes and dislikes in beers. I wouldn't want to brew up som 'Crap-Shoot Ale' only to find it laden with those flavor components I don't like. I enjoy 'swinging out over the river' now and again, but I know how sturdy my rope is. By brewing to styles, I've learned enough to formulate brews that fit my preferred profile. Perhaps in competitions, we can have a 'best new' or 'best goof-ball brew' category. We gather all the non-classified, or non-classifiable brews together, then the judges simply decide which one tastes the best. If based on the usual characteristics w/no reference to style, just on the yummy factor, how can it become a popularity contest. I thought the judges weren't supposed to know any more about the brew they're judging but its target style and a number. (Hoping you 'mis-spoke', here. What am I missing?) Nuff said by me. >Memorial Day passes... Hey! Where'd 1742 go? Is this the HBD equivalent to the 'Missing Man Formation' as a means of commemorating Memorial Day? What gives? ('Course, if it published, I'd be 3 days behind in my reading! ;-) Brew it up, guys and gals! A thirsty summer's a comin'! "Drink all you want - I'll brew more!" Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock | "Yup, Kit's (Anderson) a brewer... President, Brew-Master | What he isn't is a woman." - Dan Hall and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 12:16:55 CDT From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Re: Copper good for yeast? Sorry for the delay, but thanks to the folks that responded. The concensus of the replies I received is that while copper is a necessary nutrient. You would probably get as much benefit from a copper chiller (or perhaps throwing pennies in the boil) as from boiling in a copper kettle. Of course a copper kettle has a certain aesthetic quality... Cheers-- Al - -- Al Gaspar <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil> USAMC SIMA, ATTN: AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO 63103-2834 COMMERCIAL: (314) 331-4354 AUTOVON: 555-4354 relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 13:16:33 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: Cleanliness is Next to Beerliness [re going overboard with cleanliness and sanitation] The options, as I see it, are: 1) to start doing everything you can, even if it is more than needed, to have uncontaminated beer 2) to start with no concerns, no sanitation, and if you get bad beer, start doing more until you don't any more. My personal theory is that option 1) will scare off some people, but that option 2) will scare off more. Nothing deters new brewers as much as having the first batch go bad. Also, there are no easy rules because people's environments vary so much. You may be able to clean out bottles, store them for six months, then use them as is when you bottle. Someone else trying that may have sour beer in a few weeks. Just saying it works for you isn't enough. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: 30 May 95 13:58:00 -0400 From: RICHARD.ENGLEHART at hq.doe.gov Subject: Hop'n Gator Back in the 70s Pittsburgh Brewing Company put out a fruit tasting beer called Hop'n Gator that was based on Gatorade, which had been invented by a professor at the University of Florida. It was a terrific thirst quencher. Since then I've started brewing my own beer and would like to find a recipe that comes close to Hop'n Gator to try. Pittsburgh Brewing Company stopped making it in the late 70s, I think. Any help out there? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 14:23:44 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: why enter contests I feel Martin Lodahl's comment about 'if you don't like contests,then don't enter' pretty much sums it up. I like to enter contests for the feedback. Yes, there are plenty of great homebrews that don't fit into any of the recognized style categories. That is fine, its all a part of homebrewing. The majority of folks in my homebrew club could care less about entering contests. The point I always try to make is that learning to brew particular flavor characteristics ( ie styles) will help you learn how the ingredients work. The end result is that you will be able to produce a beer with whatever flavor characteristics you want, and have it come out pretty darn close to what you had envisioned whether it is a recognized style or this years Holiday Special. Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 14:48:31 EST From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com Subject: RE Style, and hop flavor RE the recent thread about Style, I'd like to approach it from a different angle that is more in line with Norm's comments of yesterday about knowing where you are going when brewing. In essence, having a target (style or flavor profile) and knowing what it will take (ingredients and methods) to get there. I'm a fairly new extract brewer. For me, "style" is a learning tool. I use "style" (more specifically a recipe that typifies a style) to learn what a certain mix of ingredients and method will yield. By brewing different beers in different styles, I can learn what flavor, etc. characteristics can be achieved from different yeasts, extracts, specialty grains, etc. in (what I would call) a logical approach. This builds my knowledgebase as a brewer. As I gain experience, I can get as "creative" as I want - inside or outside a particular "style" - but I will know pretty much what to expect when I am dreaming up the recipe. At any rate, *for me* this is a better approach than just combining a bunch of stuff off the shelf with no earthly idea what will result. Now... for my question. My normal procedure is to pour the just-boiled wort into a plastic fermenter, into which I have placed a nylon mesh bag to catch all the hop "crud" and other stuff. This has the obvious benefit, but it occurs to me it may also have a drawback: am I loosing some hop flavor (and perhaps aroma) by removing so quickly the hops that were added within the final 10 minutes of boil (from 10 minutes to flameoff)? I am most concerned about hop flavor, because I assume I can add aroma (but not too much flavor) via dryhopping. I do not what to rekindle the aroma vs. flavor thread, but I'd appreciate any advice from those of you who have already thought this one through. Tim Fields Timf at relay.com Relay Technology, Inc. Vienna, VA, USA "The smell of wet Irish moss is like a trip to the beach" ... James Ray "Reeb !" ... Cask-Conditioned Cole & Old Speckled Clyde Let's hear it for extract brewers! (cheers from the audience) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 14:25:23 -0400 From: Gideon.Pollach at mail.cc.trincoll.edu (Library Circulation #5) Subject: Raspberry Beer I am looking for a good recipe for raspberry beer. Any suggestions? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 14:36:08 -0600 From: calbick at ecc.nyseg.com Subject: Brewpub and Micro Recommendations I'm planning a road trip of the following states soon: New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, DC. I would like to get some recommendations of exceptional brewpubs and microbreweries in these states. (I have the publist from the archive.) If you know of any brewpubs or micros that I shouldn't miss, please E-mail. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 17:35:14 -0400 From: StanM13541 at aol.com Subject: Re: Styles Another View Martin Lodahl <malodah at kriek.scrm2700.PacBell.COM> Wrote: >I'd like to offer an opinion on the question of the validity of brewing >to style. As I'm Styles Editor of Brewing Techniques magazine, a long- >time judge and contest organizer, and a recent addition to the BJCC, >you can guess what that opinion is. >This question seems to come up now and then. Why is it an issue? If >you can't personally relate to brewing within an agreed-upon set of >intentions and standards, then don't do it! What could be simpler? >What is it to you, if others have decided that they can speed their >growth as brewers by using the feedback they get from contests? >Personally, I think they're on the right track. I bow to your qualifications BUT, (you knew it was comming) :) What is to become of a beer that is brewed and meets the brewer's expectations, but doesen't fit a style? My Old Peceular clone is REAL close in side by side tastings but it's OG, color, IBUs don't honestly fit a style. I would like it to be judged for flaws to improve my brewing but don't want to try to shoehorn it into a style catagory. Also I must take what the judges say with a grain of salt. In the recent AHA competition, my Scotch ale was judged good but flawed. The judges were able to identify only the same flaws I already could perceive and were UNable to attribute some of the off flavor to the roast barly I used. Perhaps I was expecting too much but I received no insight that would make me change my receipe any further than I had before entering the contest. Stan Return to table of contents
Date: 30 May 95 16:42:00 -0500 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: fruit beer yeasts/CO2 tanks/bock colour/hot primings/big starter Bill writes: >Jeff Guillet wrote: >I'm in the process of making a clone of Pyramid's Apricot Hefeweizen. I >used Wyeast #1338 European because of it's low attenuation. This should >make for a slightly sweeter beer which lends itself to the fruit flavor. >I find that most of the actual fruit essence comes from aroma, not >flavor so you don't want the yeast's characteristics to compete. You do >want some residual sweetness in your wheat beer, however. > >I think the kind of yeast chosen should emulate the type of beer you are >trying to brew. If you are making a specific type of beer (a porter say) >with a fruit component, then use the yeast for that style. If you are >trying to produce a lambic style (the original fruit beer) without all the >hassle of special yeast strains, try a Belgian ale yeast. If however, you >are trying to emulate an American-style fruit beer (usually wheat based), >try a neutral ale yeast (like WYeast American Ale), or for a hint of wheat >beer taste, BrewTeks American White. I would tend to agree more with Jeff than with Bill. Fruit without the sugar is very different than what we are used to. Using a less-attenuative yeast as Jeff suggests does help retain some sweetness and, I feel, works with fruit beers of all types. Regarding Bill's comment on the Belgian ale yeast for pseudo-lambiks, I have to disagree 100%. The Wyeast Belgian Ale yeast character is nothing like that you would want in a lambik-style beer (unless you were trying to emulate Chapeau Banana Lambik ;^). I have not tasted any fruit beers that had a noticable clovey "Bavarian Weizen" aroma, but I would venture to guess that phenols and fruit may not go too well together. *** Steve writes: >nice introductory article about kegging, but did not answer one question: is >it ok to keep the CO2 tank in the fridge with the kegs or does it need to be >kept at room temp.? What if any are the problems and/or dangers of doing so? The concern about keeping the tank in the fridge is really a question of keeping the regulator in the fridge. The problem is condensation INSIDE the regulator. Every time you open the fridge (or if you have a leak in the fridge gasket, or an unsealed hole in the wall), a little moisture is drawn from the room into fridge and condenses on all the cold surfaces of the fridge interior, including the interior of the regulator. Over time, this could ruin your regulator. I kept my regulator inside my fridge for two years with no problems. Space limitations forced me to move the tank outside and now I just connect the CO2 every couple of pints for a few minutes. ***** Russ writes: >I recently lost some points on a Bock in a contest because it was too reddish, >and it should have been more brown. Those judges should take a look at Paulaner Salvator. Granted, it is a Doppelbock, but this should not change its colour. Salvator is definately deep reddish-brown. If you know the judges, you should politely confront them with this misjudging. Right now both the BJCP and (I would assume) the AHA judging programmes are in flux. Once they settle down, I'm quite sure that some kind of formal, feedback procedure will be initiated to allow entrants to report judging errors. There has been much discussion about this and I'm sure it is in the works. ***** Eric writes: > Last night I primed a batch of pale ale >prior to bottling per usual. I have reason >to believe that the sugar solution was not >cooled enough, i guess I figured that 120 oz. >of 60~70 degree F beer would not be harmed by >< 10 oz of warm, or even hot priming solution. >Well when I dumped the sugar in, a sort of fizzy >head developed. I tried not to think of the >cosequences and bottled on. As I used my bottle >filler, which normally fills with minimal turbulance, >I noticed that the headspace filled with a sort of >creamy head. This has never happened before, IMBR? >Was the priming sugar too hot? I did cool it, but not >as much as usual, probally down to 120~130 degree F. I suspect that all is fine with your beer. The head you experienced was probably CO2 coming out of the beer. At any given temperature, beer will hold a certain amount of CO2 in solution. The colder it is, the more it will hold. When you warmed the beer with your hot primings, you reduced the solubitity of CO2 in the beer and it outgassed. *** Nigel writes: >About four or five days before brewing, add the following directly into a >clean 5 gallon primary fermenter. Take a couple of cups of DME, sugar or >the like, throw in two sachets (each described as suitable for 5 gallons) >of dried yeast and about I gallon of warm (previously boiled) water and >shake vigorously. Add the lid and air lock. On the brewing day, add the >wort and additional water directly to the primary fermenter with the yeast >starter already in it. This would be a fine procedure if you sanitized the DME or sugar along with the water. There is nothing preventing wild yeasts or bacteria that might be sitting in your DME powder or corn sugar from infecting your starter. It will work without problems sometimes, but I feel it's not wort the risk to assume anything is bug-free when you consider all the time and ingredients that might be wasted. Al. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1745, 05/31/95