HOMEBREW Digest #1788 Sat 22 July 1995

Digest #1787 Digest #1789

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Refrigerating hops, grains, etc. ad infinitum. (Kenneth K Goodrow)
  Need advice for O2 Aeration System (Bryan Dawe)
  Soon to be Brewer seeks equipment (rik)
  Mash problems, the saga continues ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." )
  Counterpressure Bottling (nm1)
  WWW IBU Calculator (Glenn Tinseth)
  Spoiled batch / Lalvin Champagne Yeast (Rich Larsen)
  Beer in Space (Russell Mast)
  Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1786 (July 20, 1995) (RobHaiber)
  Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1786 (July 20, 1995) (RobHaiber)
  RE: Wheat and Wyeast 3944 ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Virginia Beach/Outer Banks request ("Kevin A. Kutskill")
  Final Gravity / Motorized JSP mill / Yeast Starters (Rob Reed)
  Chicago Mills (Martin Schwan)
  RE:  Moldy Beer ("Merchant, Thomas E")
  several items (Rolland Everitt)
  Clarification: Beer In Space (Mark Parshall)
  Munich 2 (A. J. deLange)
  London City Redux (A. J. deLange)
  Different Subjects (A. J. deLange)
  Complete drivel... (pbabcock)
  water/kegging/water again/grains (Ray Robert)
  Zymurgy back issues (Wallie Meisner USCGC2R3)
  Acidifying sparge water (Saint Rich)
  HBD in r.c.b. may disappear (Dion Hollenbeck)
  New to the list.. (David Russell)
  New to list. (David Russell)
  Guinness Irish Draught clone: Hops? Water treatment? (Walter K. Vogel)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:24:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Kenneth K Goodrow <goodrow at orion.etsu.edu> Subject: Refrigerating hops, grains, etc. ad infinitum. I use dry yeast and am wondering how necessary it is to refrigerate it to extend its life and protect vitality. The stuff is in airtight packages, some of them coming with the cans of malt extract. I have put the bags in the fridge in the past, but am wondering if it is worth the bother. What does your experience prove? The same question for hops, but this concerns hop pellets vacuum sealed in little bags. These hop bags came in "personal brewery" boxes (dry and liquid malt extract, sugar, hops, caps all in one box) and aren't refrigerated. Anyone used these before? To refrigerate or not is the question. Gracias, Kenn Goodrow Brewing Addict Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 10:39:16 MDT From: Bryan Dawe <bryand at hpgrla.gr.hp.com> Subject: Need advice for O2 Aeration System Hi all, I need a primer on O2, O2 tanks, O2 regulators, air stones (or inlet filters, as the case may be), etc. I recently expanded my brew length to 10 gallons. I never minded shaking the one carboy for aeration when there was only one carboy with which to dance, but now that there are two, the shaking routine is tiresome. I would like to start aerating with O2, but I am basically clueless with respect to this topic. Seems like I should be able to go into a welders supply shop and buy the necessary equipment and also have the tank filled. Alternatively a home medical supply shop might also get the job done. In any event, it would be nice if I had at least one clue before I go out shopping. So . . . What size tanks are available/generally used with O2? What size tank should I buy? (It would be nice if I could aerate at least 100 gallons between refills.) What kind of experiences have the O2 experts had with different brands/styles of regulators? Any recommendations? Are there any "pitfalls" that I should avoid in this endevour? I expect to deliver the O2 to the beer through 1/16" ID tubing of some kind. Any recommendations or advice with respect to this tubing? (Such as fittings to use at the regulator, hose material and supplier recommendations, etc.) Also, I am planning to use a 5 or 10 micron inlet filter as an airstone in my aeration system. Previous postings on this forum indicate that these are available from RAININ (1-800-4RAININ). I will give these people a call at some point, but I do not have a catalog. If there is someone in the HBD Collective with a current catalog that can make a recommendation and provide a catalog number and price I would be quite appreciative. I would like the filter to be stainless steel, autoclavable, have a 1/16" OD stem for a slip fit connection (Actually, the only reason I mention the the stem size is because it is my understanding that inlet filters are usually equipped thusly. Corrections welcome. A different stem size naturally effects my delivery tubing size, which I mentioned above.), and be able to fit through the mouth of a 6.5 gallon acid carboy. Recommendations on 5 micron vs. 10 micron would be helpful. Recommendations on other suppliers of inlet filters would also be helpful. Any and all advice on these topics welcome. I prefer that responses appear in HBD, since effective August 1 I will be changing jobs and email addresses. At some point email to my current address is going to disappear into some electronic void. I do not want to miss any advice from the HBD Collective. Thanks in advance, Bryan P. Dawe bryand at hpgriy.gr.hp.com (only until July 31!) Greeley Hard Copy Division (soon to be Graphics Hardware Lab, YEA!!!) Hewlett-Packard Company Return to table of contents
Date: Thu Jul 20 13:13:13 1995 From: rik at astea.com Subject: Soon to be Brewer seeks equipment Being a part of this mailing list, I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I've yet to brew a batch of beer. Problem is, everytime I go to the local brew store, all of the equipment seems somewhat shoddy for the price. Don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid to spend the money, I'd just rather know I'm getting quality equipment for what I'm spending. I'm a beer lover (North Coast Brewing Co. & Oregon Brewing Co. are my favorite breweries), and I know that once I start brewing I will continue for quite a while. Is there some sort of reputable mail order catalog out there? Where do you people buy good equipment? I plan on getting into this relatively soon. I'm hoping to make a batch of simple beer, and then intend to make a batch of some sort of spice beer for the Holidays. Any recommendations for a fool-proof Holiday Beer recipe? Thanks, Anxious in Allentown Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:16:01 -0600 From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov> Subject: Mash problems, the saga continues Hello folks. Again, I ask for your help with my all-grain routine. I have been an all-grainer for about a year and a half, with about 15 batches under my belt.I usually mash on the stovetop (if I do step-mashes) or in my 10 gallon Gott cooler fitted with a Phils Phalse bottom (for infusion mashes). I suffer from low extraction efficiencies (there...I admitted it). My grain is purchased from several very reputable suppliers, and it is crushed with a PhillMill. My sparges generally last at least 45 minutes. Everything I can think of has been checked. I recently moved to a new town, and I attempted my first all-grain batch there two weeks ago. Starting with 9 lbs of Pale malt (plus a bit of cara-pils and crystal) and a 1.5 hr infusion mash at 69degC, I wound up with an extremely dissapointing o.g. of 1.030 in 5 gallons! I checked the pH of the mash with those pH color strips, and it seemed to be around 5.5. After I cleaned my carboy with a little too much bleach, I found a white residue on the inside of the fermenter that only came off with vinegar. Thus, I became suspect of my water. I called the water department here (Frederick, MD). They gave me the following information: pH 7.8 alkalinity 109 mg/l hardness 131 mg/l I have read Miller and Papazian regarding water, but I am still confused. It appears to my untrained senses that my water is on the hard side and the pH is kinda high. I am not sure what to do about it. In a futile attempt to do a controlled experiment on my mash regime, I crushed *very* finely (almost to flour) 1 pound of 2-row malt. I mashed it in 3 pints of 69degC water for 30 minutes. With those pH strips, I measured the pH to be near 5.5 (although you know how those can be somewhat ambiguous). I rinsed the grains with 5 pints of hot water, brought the volume to 1 gallon, and measured the o.g at 1.024. Taking the actual o.g./max predicted gravity for American 2 row malt, I get (24/37)100=64.8% efficiency. I next did the exact same thing on my regularly-crushed malt. The o.g. was 1.012, which comes out to be 32.4% efficiency! What am I doing wrong? I thought that this experiment would give me hints, but now I am even more discouraged. The gravity of my final runnings from a normal all-grain batch is about 1.008 or so, so it seems that I am getting all of the sugar out. I checked my hydrometer, and it reads 1.000 in water. I am sorry for the long post, but I am very frustrated and really need advice. I love to do all-grainers, and while I feel my beer is excellent, my low extractions make for somewhat frustrating brew sessions. What other variables can I look into? My crush, water, sparge, pH, temperature control, etc, have all been investigated and I still can't find the culprit. If there is a local all-grainer among you out there (in the Frederick area), I would love to talk with you on the phone or even maybe come see you mash. If anybody has any advice, or if you have been in my shoes, I would love to hear from you. TIA for all the help, past and present. Rick Gontarek Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery Frederick, MD gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:47:14 -0400 (EDT) From: nm1 at keene.edu Subject: Counterpressure Bottling We recently acquired a kegging system and are now interested in a counterpressure bottling system. I know that there are a few commercial ones out there, How are they? Also I've heard about plans in the Sping 1990 zymurgy. Does anyone have a copy that you could photocopy? Please E-mail me or post with any information you have. TIA Nathan nm1 at keene.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:43:06 -0700 From: gtinseth at teleport.com (Glenn Tinseth) Subject: WWW IBU Calculator The form-based bitterness calculator on my Hop Page is finally working (well most of the time ;^). If you've visited the Hop Page, come again and try out the calculator. If you haven't visited yet, shame on you--it's the place to read about hops. The URL is <http://www.teleport.com/~gtinseth/> Thanks, Glenn Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:48:12 -0500 From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen) Subject: Spoiled batch / Lalvin Champagne Yeast >It remains >orangish and cloudy. It has a heavy taste that is a little bitter to >the smell and taste. You would not want to drink the stuff, it is >that bad. Sounds like a wild yeast got in there. What are your procedures for starting the yeast and chilling the wort. A long lag time, either waiting for the yeast to kick off or waiting for the wort to chill can allow wild things to gain a foothold in the beer. Is the flavor/stink like burning electronics, plastic, chalky/tempra paint : aka Phenolic. These are trademarks of wild yeast. > I hate pouring beer down the drain. Me too, but take consolation in the fact that if you can't drink it, you probably shouldn't be calling it beer ;-) On the same note to the HBD, does anyone else find the Lalvin Champagne Yeast gives a similar nasty flavor to Mead. I lost one batch of Mead to a funky flavor that I thought was an infection until I started some of this same yeast in some honey for a kicker for a current batch of mead. One whiff and it brought back some nasty memories. Needless to say, the starter was dumped down the drain. => Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org> ________________________________________________________________________ Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL. Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263 Spice is the varity of life. ________________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:45:18 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Beer in Space Mark Parshall blatently rips off a cool article about Beer in Space. Har har. That was funny the FIRST time I read it a couple months ago, when the ORIGINAL AUTHOR was correctly attributed. That was stolen word for word from a column in the Fresno Bee written by my good pal John Scalzi. He also happens to e-mail copies of his column around the country, and I got a copy so long ago I have already erased it to save space. Yes, it was funny. Maybe good enough to be pertinent to the group. But stealing someone else's work and putting your name on it is NOT COOL. It's not necessarily even legal. I'm sure John will appreciate the publicity, and any of you that find this marvellously funny call your local newspapers and ask them to call the Fresno Bee and syndicate John's weekly column. Don't ask them to contact Mark Parshall, though, because he can't come up with a good one on his own. Maybe it's not Mark's fault, necessarily. Maybe he got it fourth-hand, with the headers trimmed. Nonetheless, he sure as hell didn't write it himself, and to post it with no attribution, not even a "here's something funny someone forwarded me" is just obnoxious. Mark, you owe John an apology (or more, I'll let him deal with you), you owe us an apology for trying to decieve us into thinking you have enough creativity to write that, and, mostly, you owe yourself an apology. You're ony cheating yourself, as your third-grade teacher used to say. Sorry if I'm coming across as nitpicky, but this was totally ripped-off, and good enough to deserve a correct attribution. If you had written this would you be a little upset if someone swiped it from you? (Especially if that's what you did for a living...) Very rude, and technically illegal. Fye upon you, Markus. -Russell, with two L's Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:23:15 -0700 From: RobHaiber at eworld.com Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1786 (July 20, 1995) In reply to TRoat at aol.com his Q on a ale recipe using Challenger hops There is a book, Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home, that has scores of recipes using Challenger and other British hops. The book contains ACTUAL brewery recipes, and not gereric ones. The book retails for $14.99 (S&H included with pre-paid orders) and may be purchased from: The Info Devel Press Reilly Road La Grangevill NY 12450 Here's a recipe for Fullers London Pride: In the mash tun Pale malt: 2.750gm (65%) Crystal malt: 430gm (10%) Flaked maize: 430gm (10%) In the copper Invert cane sugar: 640gm (15%) Target hops: 20gm (start of boil) CHallenger hops: 20gm (start of boil) Northdown hops: 9gm (last 15min) Irish moss: 1tsp (last 15-30min) Typical characteristics Brewing method: single infusion mash, top fermented Mash liquor: 10.0 litres Masnh temp: 65 C Mash time: 90min Boil time: 2hr Alcohol content: 4.6% OG: 1040 Final gravity: 1006 Bitterness: 30EBU Final volume: 23 litres Roger Protz's description: "An astonishing complex beer for its gavity, fine for drinking on its own, or with well-flavoured food. A multi-layered delight of malt and hops, and a deep, intense finish, with hop and ripening fruit notes. Note: for a partial mash recipe, replace the pale malt with 2,000gm of diastatic malt extract such as Edme DMS. I hope this helps. Rob Haiber, Beer & Brewing Central sysop/admin Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:37:48 -0700 From: RobHaiber at eworld.com Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1786 (July 20, 1995) In response to Ray Daniels's query - ----------------------------- Begin Original Text - ----------------------------- Five or six folks from the Chicago Beer Society are headed to this year's GBBF in London. (Aug 1 - 5.) Anyone else going? Anyone have sites, pubs, breweries, etc. to recommend for our agenda? Also, if you have any recommendations regarding accomodations, please contact me. Thanks, Ray Daniels 71261.705 at compuserve.com - ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- Yes, there are quite a few of us who will be there in London before, during, and after GBBF. Paul Farnsworth, John Calen, Susan Reigler, and myself will be there. As for places to go... starting Saturday, 29th July, the White Horse pub in Parsons Green, London, will have their annual real ale festivals. I was told there will be a special <<wink, wink>> IPA brewed especially for the event. Too, the White Horse is the unofficial HQ of beer scribes when in London. There will be a beer scribes get-together on the Monday evening before GBBF. Finally, on Sunday, the 30th, John Calen & I will be going to Chiddingstone in Kent to visit the Larkin Brewery and have as many pints as I can drink in the Castle pub there (it naturally has Larkins Ales on offer). Chiddingstone is a lovely National Trust village. It is the sight of my annual pilgrimage to England. Anyone wanting to go, let me know. Cheers, Rob Haiber, Beer & Brewing Central PS I'll be working the Bateman stand at GBBF on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Remember, Friday will be the LONG day at GBBF, not Saturday, when it will close at 8.00pm. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:43:48 -0400 From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at mendel.hgp.med.umich.edu> Subject: RE: Wheat and Wyeast 3944 I have made a Wit beer with whole wheat flour. I had a slow sparge, but it didn't stick. I use a Gott cooler with a copper manifold for mashing & lautering. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Jul 95 16:23:02 EDT From: "Kevin A. Kutskill" <75233.500 at compuserve.com> Subject: Virginia Beach/Outer Banks request (insert picture of me being flogged with a siphon hose) Ok, ok, I won't do it again! Just this once! I am going to the Virginia Beach/Outer Banks area next week and want to know if there are any good beer-related stops I need to make (i.e., brewpubs, micros, etc.) Private e-mail preferred. TIA Kevin A. Kutskill ("Dr. Rottguts") Clinton Township, MI "A homebrew a day keeps the doctor happy" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:35:06 -0400 (CDT) From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: Final Gravity / Motorized JSP mill / Yeast Starters Steven W. Schultz <swschult at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> writes: > In a recent edition of Zymurgy, someone tested this recipe and > had, if I remember correctly, an FG of 1.012. My only deviations from the > recipe were adding 4 oz. of wheat malt (my standard addition to every > recipe, for head retention), a pound of crystal malt, and about one-half > pound of cara-pils. Crystal malt and carapils should both increase unfermentables; therefore, your FG will be higher. But an FG of 1.024 sounds high, perhaps there are other effects such as unattenuative yeast at work. > P.J. O'Rourke was right... Yep. _________________________________ Jeffrey B. Bonner <t3345 at fel1.nfuel.com> asked about motorizing the JSP Maltmill: I don't know what the optimum speed is. I motorized my Maltmill with a 1/3 HP motor and a roller RPM of 170. This gives me a good crush and good throughput. My only regret is that I only get to use it for several minutes per month. It seems like someone - it may have been Jack - did some experiments where throughput was measured vs. roller RPM and the throughput increased with roller RPM until the roller reached about ??? RPM. I don't remember. _________________________________ PERSAND at aol.com writes about wort aeration: I syphon my chilled wort from a height of > about three feet above my 6 gallon plastic fermentor. I get a huge crop of > foam which I stir in throughout the syphoning. I pitch my yeast starter > about half way into the process and usually have about a 10 to 12 hour lag > time at 80f starting temp. I'll admit that occasionally the lag time is about > 24 hours but in general is reasonable. Any comments on this method? I have been using a method to grow yeast starters which someone described on HBD several months ago: sterilize your carboy or other primary fermentor and grow your final starter in your fermentor. I have had excellent results with this technique and it saves one task on brewday. I add cooled wort to the fermentor and airlock activity typically starts within hours using a 1.0-1.5 qt. starter. While I don't have any hard data, my fermentations proceed more quickly with a shorter lag time. In theory more yeast should be produced due to the increased amount of O2 available for yeast reproduction. I am not a microbiologist, but I do believe growing starters in this way is a vast improvement over growing starters in flasks, jars, or bottles. Cheers, Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:46:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Schwan <schwmar at charlie.acc.iit.edu> Subject: Chicago Mills I'm an occasional all-grain brewer. In the past my all-grain brews have been British Pale Ales since I can easily get pre-crushed British Pale Malt. I'd like to branch out and try other all-grain brews but, I don't own a roller mill because my infrequent grain brewing doesn't warrent the initial exense. It occured to me that there might be some home brewers here in Chicago that own mills that aren't being used that often and who wouldn't mind sharing once in awhile. I can trade some homebrew for mill time or, if anyone is interested, I have some experience with electric motors and can attach one to a mill in exchange for use of the mill. Any interested Chicago based mill owners please reply by private e-mail to: schwmar at charlie.acc.iit.edu TIA :-) Martin. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 16:35:00 CDT From: "Merchant, Thomas E" <temercha at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com> Subject: RE: Moldy Beer Todd posted about his moldy beer situation in HBD 1786: > ...the beer smelled GREAT! > Even tasted like beer. Final proof to come in 2 weeks at tasting. Who said > a little mold was a bad thing (smile). How about a name for this stuff? Todd's Camembert Beer? Biere de Brie? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:37:04 -0400 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: several items First, let me thank the several HBD members who responded pri- vately to my inquiry about winemaking lists. I was hoping to post a collection of useful information, but all I found out was that there are a number of winemakers among the brewers, and none knows of a winemaking list. Oh well...thanks anyway guys! Next, I do not have access to ftp from this account, and have tried to use ftpmail. I cannot seem to get a message through to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com -- am I the only one? Finally, I am looking for on-line or mail-order sources of brewing supplies. Is there a FAQ file or compiled list of known sources lurking anywhere? Thanx in advance, Rolland Everitt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:00:58 -0700 From: markus at pyramid.com (Mark Parshall) Subject: Clarification: Beer In Space In HBD# 1786 I posted an article entitled "Beer In Space". This article was forwared to me by a friend without any kind of identification on it. I posted this to the HBD without stating that this was being forwarded and that the author was unknown. I appologize for any confusion this may have caused. I have received a very polite and friendly email message from the original author of this work who supplied me the appropriate information: 'Beer in Space' was originally written by John Scalzi for the Fresno Bee newspaper in California. It was published on June 6th of this year. If you enjoyed the column, visit John's Web site where he has others as well: "http"//www.cybergate.com:80/~scalzi" Regards, Mark Parshall - -- -m------- Mark Parshall ---mmm----- Pyramid Technology Corporation -----mmmmm--- markus at pyramid.com or {decwrl,hplabs,sun,uunet}!pyramid!markus - -------mmmmmmm- VOICE: 408/428-8462 FAX: 408/428-8210 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 21:40:06 -0500 From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Munich 2 Munich 2 This is the fifteenth in a series of posts on the formulation of waters similar to those of famous brewing cities of the world. They are based on ion concentration profiles given by Dave Draper in his post in #1704 (10 April 95). See my post "Water Series" (#1763) for explanatory material (correction: in the Line 3 explanation read 1.8 ml of 1 N sulfuric acid, not 18 ml). Quick reminders: all ion concentrations and salt quantities are in ppm which is the same as mg/l. The water to which the salts are added is assumed to be ION FREE (i.e. it is DISTILLED WATER or REVERSE OSMOSIS WATER). This profile is attributable to M.M. Moll writing in Hardwick, Ed. "Handbook of Brewing". Moll does not specify sodium so we threw in 2 ppm based on the Munich 1 profile and the conviction that Munich water contains some sodium. The profile is better balanced than the Munich 1 profile and this is because of the very much higher sulfate and chloride. The sulfate level is high enough that we think that brewers may run into hops harshness in some circumstances. We must again assert that we are describing how to approximate the water as specified only and specifically not giving advice on how to use it for a particular brewing job. If you follow a recipe for a city that has problem water you will produce problem water and have to deal with it as such. I suppose the major justification for this series is that if you start with Munich water and treat it as Munich brewers do then you have achieved an extra degree of authenticity. It is probably much more practical to simply put together a water with a reasonable level of calcium, minimal alkalinity and sulfate and chloride as required to establish hop character and mouth feel. This said we can synthesize the Munich 2 profile with simple salts but external acid is required to get the pH to 7: Formulation I n: 970000 Temp: 0.000969 Energy (rms %): 1.369795 Munich 2 Desired Cations: 7.253 Anions: 4.959 mEq/L Ratio: 0.684 ION WT DESIRED REALIZED ERR, % SALTS AMOUNT Ca 1.00 109.000 109.761 0.70 NaCl 0.000 Mg 1.00 21.000 20.492 -2.42 Na2CO3.10H2O 0.000 Na 1.00 2.000 2.000 -0.02 CaCL2 0.000 K 1.00 0.000 0.000 0.00 CaSO4.2H2O 0.000 CO3 1.00 171.000 169.617 -0.81 CaCO3 274.102 SO4 1.00 79.000 80.957 2.48 MgCL2 0.000 Cl 1.00 36.000 35.977 -0.06 MgCO3 0.000 H 1.00 3.284 1.015 -69.10 KCl 0.000 Na2SO4 0.000 MgSO4.7H2O 207.702 H2SO4 0.000 NaHCO3 7.307 HCl 37.012 Carbonic: 0.5465 Bicarbonate: 2.2780 Carbonate: 0.001090 mM Total Required Hydronium: 3.2839 Sulfuric Hydronium: 0.0000 mEq Hydrochloric Hydronium: 1.0149 mEq 2.2691 mEq additional hydronium required to maintain pH 7.00 Solubility Products - CaCO3: 8.70E-09 MgCO3: 2.60E-05 Ion Products - CaCO3: 2.99E-09 MgCO3: 9.19E-10 Alkalinity: 2.25 mEq; 112.54 ppm as CaCO3. Temporary hardness: 5.65 mEq; 282.55 ppm as CaCO3 Permanent hardness: 1.51 mEq; 75.56 ppm as CaCO3 The amount of acid is modest enough that adequate mash pH can probably be acheived if it is skipped, at least with the darker styles. Carbonic acid could also be used with a doubling of the carbonate to 340 ppm (pH 7). See following post: London City Redux A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! ajdel at interramp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 21:40:11 -0500 From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: London City Redux In #1786 Al Korzonas (I think I spelled it right this time, Al) commented that the carbonate level specified for London City water by Westerman and Huige was unrealistically low. We definitely agree with this. Our reasoning is based on adding up all the negative charges and positive charges in the specification for pH 7 and comparing. They should be equal. In the case of the London City spec the positive charges are triple the negative and thus either the water as specified cannot exist or we are not interpreting the spec numbers properly. The disturbing thing is that many of the water specifications are badly unbalanced. Edinburgh 1, London City, and London Well have anion to cation ratios of less than .35. Munich 1 has a ratio of .425. Only Dortmund 2, Dublin 1, Dublin 2, Dusseldorf, Edinburgh 3 and Koln have ratios between 0.8 and 1.2.These latter cities can be synthesized with little or no external acid which supplies another anion to makes up for the shortfall in the formulations for badly balanced cities. Now Al asks what gives here. I do not know. I cannot synthesize London City water per the Westerman and Huige spec. To get close I must allow the carbonate to rise to over twice the spec value and use external acid, which if it is carbonic acid, will raise the carbonate further to over 4 times the spec level. The possibilities seem to be: 1. The Westerman and Huige numbers are wrong or were transcribed wrong. 2. We have interpreted 82 to mean the total of carbonic, bicarbonate and carbonate as ppm. It may mean something else (for example if this were bicarbonate expressed "as calcium carbonate" the bicarbonate would be 98 ppm and the total carbonic plus bicarbonate about 118 ppm) 3. There are other unreported anions such as nitrate/nitrite and silicate. 4. We have missed something essential (this is the one that causes us to awake in the middle of the night). In several cases we have added a specification for a city to the original list. Munich 2 of the companion post is an example. We have done this in the hope of finding a consistent (i.e. well balanced) spec which we could synthesize in cases where the spec in the original source was so inconsistent as to be difficult to emulate. In summary, we think that many of these profiles must be taken with a grain of salt (sorry, I had to). I suspect that many of them may be quite old and that they may have been copied from journal to textbook to article over the years without ever being questioned. A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! ajdel at interramp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:11:08 -0500 From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Different Subjects Randy Davis asked about yield from raw wheat: I've never gotten spectacular yields from raw wheat either i.e typically about 59% (weight of extract as a % of the weight of the grain)in a 45% wheat, 45% barley malt, 10% oat flakes mash. By contrast I ususally get 69-70% for all barley malt mashes. Using 60% for the wit mash and 70% for the barley mash it looks as if the wheat by itself would yield about 50%. To get extraction this "good" with the wheat I grind it as I would barley malt but with the rollers a little closer together. It then goes into the mash pot with the barley and oats. I do a double decoction mash per Eric Warner's recommendations for wheat beer (if you think decoction mashing is going too far read up on the way authentic wit beers are made). The sparge usually presents some problem requiring cutting down but the end result is one of my favorites. There's been some discussion of using welding oxygen for aeration. I do this as a matter of course and while I've never really looked for it don't remeber seeing "USP" stickers on the bottles used at either of the local micro's around here. Perhaps those who worry will take some comfort in knowing that pure oxygen is quite toxic to most living things (including people) so that what gets bubbled through your wort should be sterile. Or was the worry that we'd have radon in our beer? Cheers, AJ A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! ajdel at interramp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:11:46 EDT From: pbabcock at e-mail.com Subject: Complete drivel... in HBD 1787, Aidan "Kicked in his conspiracies" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au> speaks of many things: of isinglass and gelatine and a rack-off joke that stings (Stinks didn't rhyme well enough)... Au contraire, mon ami! Gelatin seems to work acceptably above 10C (50F for the conversionally impaired). I regularly use it at temperatures ranging from 50F through 75F (24C) with acceptable results. Now, is it only me, or have others noticed a continued tendency for the little yeastie beasties to clump (yeast of a feather flocc together?) after being fined with gelatin in the secondary? I find that, in my gelatin fined batches, I can pour from the bottle - literally up-ending it (collective gasp from the audience) - without experiencing the goop transference phenomena (technical term). Indeed, unless I really shake that puppy (another technical term) prior to popping the top (that one's not technical), the sediment WANTS to stay at the bottom of the bottle. The same yeast when NOT fined with gelatin is more gregarious and wants to see what the bottom of the glass is like. I can't speak to the 'once only' aspect of gelatine as my batches rarely last long enough to be transported any further than from the beer fridge to the glass. I'll have to try that one out. Hmmm. Sharing. Interesting concept... "Drink all you want! I'll brew more!" Pat Babcock ************* SIG EATEN BY AI ROBOT ***************** MMMMM! YUMMY! ********* Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 09:29:00 PDT From: Ray Robert <rayr at bah.com> Subject: water/kegging/water again/grains Greetings all! Just wanted to post a few things to the Brew Collective. 1. I wanted to publicly thank A. DeLange for all of his effort on the brewing water of all the great brewing cities of the world. (I don't understand half of the technical water stuff, but I do recognize he has put in a great effort to provide us with this valuable resource.) 2. I HAVE KEGGED and I SHALL BOTTLE NO MORE. Finally got my keg setup going and I am like a kid in a candy shop. I highly recommend taking the plunge. I probably spent around $150 total for all the stuff, minus fridge. BTW, I do not use a fridge, I use a custom designed water jacket, insulated trashcan thingamajig. ********CHEEP BEER GADGET *******. Real quickly, it is a trashcan in a trashcan with the dead space in between insulated with Styrofoam and foam in a can. It has a 5" long 1/2"diameter drain with a 1/2"cap. Silicone sealed to prevent leakage from between the cans at the drain. Insulated the lid with the Styrofoam also. Works great. Its portable, does not require power, and looks acceptable on my apartment balcony. (Somehow I don't think the building mgmt would like a fridge on the porch). I just throw the keg in, strap it down, add water and ice, and voila cold beer. I add additional ice packs every day to keep it cold). 3. Question: Because I keep my keg in a water jacket, what can I add to the water to prevent bacteria, without harming the keg. I use bleach in my water jacket for my carboy and I know this won't work for the keg. 4. Question II: Should I be more concerned about moisture or temperature for my stored grains. As an extract brewer an apartment dweller, space is at a premium, and the grains I use are used up that quickly. I was thinking of storing my extra grains in a pressurized corny keg. ( I don't employ all of my kegs at the same time). Opinions, experiences, am I a nut? TIA Robert Ray rayr at bah.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:55:54 EDT From: uscgc2r3 at ibmmail.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wallie Meisner USCGC2R3 at ibmmail.com Subject: Zymurgy back issues I've just started reading "Zymurgy" (two issues) and am finding it to be a terrific resource. I tend to keep technical magazines forever and re-read them occasionally, but I know that some people accumulate things to a critical mass and then get rid of them. I would love to get hold of any back issues of Zymurgy (without paying a lot for them). Does anyone out there have a stack of back issues that they would consider selling? They'll be going to a good home. If so, let me know what you've got and how much you want for them. Thanks. 910 632 2410 tel 800 334 9481 tel 910 632 2697 fax - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:43:05 -0500 (CDT) From: edmondso at athena.msfc.nasa.gov (Saint Rich) Subject: Acidifying sparge water Had a crazy thought last night about acidifying sparge water. Much has been said about adding roasted specialty grains at mash out rather than during the whole mash. What if the specialty grains were steeped in the sparge water instead? Would that give you the benefit of a lower pH in the sparge water with equivalent contribution of the roasted grain character to the final product? And while I'm at it, I'm in the process of making a lauter tun from a 33qt EOS pot and 1/2" od cu tubing. I was planning to just coil the tubing to cover the bottom of the pot, but was unable to make the radius small enough to cover the center of the pot. No biggie. But that made me wonder if I really needed to have the coils as tight as I had them in the bottom of the pot. I had coiled them to where they were touching the adjacent loop - i.e. you could only see copper tubing in the bottom of the pot. Should they be that tight, or more loose? Suggestions on drill bit size selection are also welcome. - -- St. Rich "All the boys are gettin' ready to riot Betty Lou's gettin' out tonight" - Bob Seger Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 07:20:50 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: HBD in r.c.b. may disappear The posting of the Homebrew Digest into rec.crafts.brewing may stop without notice sometime in the near future. I am the person responsible for the posting at this time. It is a completely automated process here at the company for which I work. Today I am tendering my resignation and once I am gone, no one will notice if the automated process breaks and if anyone does, they will expend *NO* effort to fix it. I have been able to get this done through the good graces of our computer resources department as a personal favor to me and once I am gone, no will care about any homebrewing concerns. The good news is that as long as this site continues to receive the HBD, it will continue to gate it into the news stream unless something gets broken. The other good news is that at my new job, we will have ample resources for me to be able to do this, but it may take some time to get it set up. I will then regain some measure of control in keeping the HBD flowing into r.c.b. Until then, please don't complain to Megatek if anything happens to the HBD being posted into r.c.b. I may be "off the air" for a couple of weeks if my company deems that my new position is a threat by going to a company in too much of the same field and therefore competition. I can be reached at my new address of "hollen at vigra.com" but will not be able to respond until after my start date of August 7, 1995 dion Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:07:11 EDT From: drussell at funb.com (David Russell) Subject: New to the list.. Hi, I am new to this list ( as of today ) and I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any local stores to Charlotte or mail order systems for home brewing. I have recently relocated here from NYC and haven't been able to locate any down here. Moonshine is not my thing. I also would like to hear of anyways of doctoring ales to give different tastes. One of my favorite Wicked Petes is the Winterbrew ( touch of raspberry ) and Summerbrew ( touch of citris ). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Happy consumption, Dave - -- ****************************************************************************** David Russell Market Data Analyst First Union National Bank One First Union Plaza Charlotte, NC phone:(704) 383-9922 (temp) email: drussell at capmark.funb.com ****************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:44:55 EDT From: drussell at funb.com (David Russell) Subject: New to list. Hi, I tried posting before but I may not have been entirely permissioned yet. I am new to this list and would like some information on two questions. One, I just moved here (Charlotte, NC) from NYC and would like some information on where I can get some homebrewing kits. I have not been able to locate any store yet, so any local stores or mail order places would be greatly appreciated. Second, I would like to know if anyone has any recipes or ideas for doctoring their home brew. I really enjoy Petes Wicked Winterbrew and Summerbrew (raspberry and citris, respectively) and would like to know how to brew like this. Any ideas would help. Either post for everybody to enjoy or mail me directly at drussell at capmark.funb.com. Thanks and happy comsuming, Dave - -- ****************************************************************************** David Russell Market Data Analyst First Union National Bank One First Union Plaza Charlotte, NC phone:(704) 383-9922 (temp) email: drussell at capmark.funb.com ****************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:56:22 -0700 From: Walter K. Vogel <vogelw at ucs.orst.edu> Subject: Guinness Irish Draught clone: Hops? Water treatment? I shall be brewing a Guinness clone, or rather I will attempt a Guinness clone The variation will be the Irish Draught as served in Ireland (not England). Grain: 4.6 lb Crisp English Maris Otter pale malt 0.75 lb Crisp Roasted Barley 1.75 lb Flaked Barley [ I have been thinking of adding some Belgian Special B -- Yes/NO?] I expect that this will yield an OG 1047 in 5 Gal and I will dilute this OG 1039 to ferment after 2-3h boil. I will be using Wyeast Irish Ale yeast. Fermentation temperature will be on the warm side 24C/75F maybe less. **Hops ?** According to Michael Jackson "Americal and English hops are used" and that "Goldings predominate" According to the _Just Hops_ catalouge Irish Northdown is used extensively by Guinness but it doesn't say in which beer they use it in or if they use it at the brewery in England in Ireland or both. I am also considering the use of Willamette hops for the American hop (an easy choice as I live in the Willamette valley). Another possibility is English Challenger hops. My question is that while I will be using English Goldings I am not sure what else to use, or IF I need to use anything else--I could go with 100% Goldings **Water Treatment** According to Randy Mosher's book the water analysis of Dublin 5.0 ppm SO4 which is lowest listed even Pilsen has more SO4 in there water. He also has an "Ideal Stout" with 46ppm SO4. So does any one know if Guinness treats their water in any way and if so what that treatment might be. Also does anyone know the pH of the water and what it might be adjusted to. In review, my questions are: 1. include Special B (Y/N)? 2. Hops other than EK Goldings? 3. Water treatment? & pH? Thanks Walter Vogel vogelw at bcc.orst.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1788, 07/22/95