HOMEBREW Digest #1792 Thu 27 July 1995

Digest #1791 Digest #1793

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Retraction (Tim Laatsch)
  Rogue St Red (MClarke950)
  Brewing System Tips (BixMeister)
  Beer & Sweat Aug 12 (tbird)
  2nd Annual State Fair of Texas HB Competition (Ken Haycook)
  Dry Hop Impaction (Joe Pearl)
  Re: Dry Hop Impaction, Homebrewing and Septic Systems (Jim Dipalma)
  Nutrient value of beer / GT IX (uswlsrap)
  Re: brew belts (PatrickM50)
  Scientific Mashing Breakthru! ("Palmer.John")
  Czech beer "Crystal" (Jim Brittain)
  Nippers (A. Thuman)
  Killian's Irish Red (JOHN E. HARDING)
  What are Kegs made of? (DICKERSON)
  Marzen follow-up (Harralson, Kirk)
  RE: Brass, FDA vs. AOB (Dave Pike)
  Re: Dry Hop Impaction ("Stephen E. Hansen")
  Architecture Questionnaire revisited.... (DocsBrew)
  Re: Cherries, Liefmanns (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Clarification. (Russell Mast)
  old grains/all-grain (John Shearer)
  Gesundheit malt syrup (Neal Higgins)
  Irish Moss after the fact (TRoat)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:59:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu> Subject: Retraction Hello Again, As much as it pains me, I'm going to have to recant my previous post defending the heat generated by wet-flame sanitation with ethanol. I accidentally deleted the code to take my response post out of the queue. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Experimental results follow that will presumably deter the AI robot from obliterating my feable cyber-existence. I took a thermometer with a range from 0 to 300 C, dipped it in ethanol, and set it ablaze. I did so repeatedly, refusing to believe my results. The temperature consistently reached only 65 C, certainly far below the threshhold for sanitation. OTOH, when I directly dry-flamed the thermometer in a natural gas bunsen burner flame, the temperature increased to well over 200 C in a matter of a few seconds. The results are clear and irrefutable---wet flaming will not sanitize, dry flaming will. I was wrong as wrong could be....and Pierre was right! I'm sure glad that I also dry-flamed those carboy necks when yeast ranching. Now, back to brewing... Tim *=============================================================================* | Timothy P. Laatsch | email: laatsch at kbs.msu.edu | Aspiring | | Graduate Student-Microbiology | biz phone: 616-671-2329 | All-Grain | | Michigan State University/KBS | fax: 616-671-2104 | Homebrewer | | Kalamazoo, MI (Home of Bell's) | obsession: American Pale Ale | & Scientist | *=============================================================================* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:56:20 -0400 From: MClarke950 at aol.com Subject: Rogue St Red I have a friend who wants to make a ST. Rogue Red. But I'm not sure of the ingrediants, here's my guess: 8# American 2 row malt 1/4# Crystal malt 2-4 oz Roasted Barley Standard Infusion mash, 60-90 minutes at 153F Hops, I was thinking Cascades, it had a real 'citrusy' smell to it. I think probably 3 additions. 2? oz at 60 min before end of boil(EOB) 1 oz at 15 min before EOB 1 oz dry hop in the secondary for 2 weeks No water treatments. How about Wyeast 1056 American Ale as the yeast? There's a Advanced Brewers Scientific (ABS) ABS001 Northwest Microbrewery Ale yeast, but I've never used it and don't know if it's appropriate. (BTW Thanks Jeff, I just got the catalog.) Does anyone have a better handle on this beer? Cheers, Mike MClarke950 at aol.com Seattle, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:00:21 -0400 From: BixMeister at aol.com Subject: Brewing System Tips I was very impressed with the answers to my inquiry regarding preparation of agar plates. HBD is a great information resource! I have a new query rather a couple of queries. First for those do-it-yourselfers-how do you construct a liquid level sight tube. I have some rough ideas, but need more data. Secondly I want to construct a stainless steel false bottom with enough permeability to be suitable for a rim system using a pump. Answers can be sent to HBD and or directed to me personally. BixMeister(Horace A. Bixby) BixMeist at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 01:38 EDT From: tbird at iglou.com Subject: Beer & Sweat Aug 12 O.K. Folks, you just barely have time to get a batch of kegged homebrew together for this years' Beer & Sweat; so clean out your kegging system and work on your best homebrew recipes, because it's time for the 1995 Beer & Sweat. What is Beer & Sweat you may ask? Well, Beer & Sweat is THE summer party of, by, and for homebrewers. The 7th annual Beer & Sweat is sponsored by the Bloatarian Brewing League of Cincinnati, it is one of the largest gatherings of homebrewers on the planet, and of interest to all homebrewers within driving distance of Greater Cincinnati. Beer & Sweat is unique in that it is 100 % homebrew oriented. Unlike the usual gatherings of brewers, where people keep opening a cooler and pulling out another example of a favorite commercial beer, we stress the homebrewer's craft exclusively. Beer & Sweat is also devoted to DRAFT homebrew. For example last year we had 50 kegs of top quality homebrew on hand, most containing 5 gallons each. There were also a few 10 gallon kegs, a few mini kegs, and a party pig. But with over 150 homebrewers in attendance, we still had a quantity of beer sufficient to provide the expected quantity of sweat. When does Beer & Sweat take place? Saturday, August 12, 1995, beginning at 5:00 pm, and running till the wee hours. Setup will be between 3:00 and 5:00. (Sorry, Friday Night people backed out on me, but a few bloats will hanging around the pool Friday nite, but I'm getting together a road trip to the area brewpubs Sat. before 5:00). Where does Beer & Sweat take place? At the Drawbridge Estate ( home of the Oldenberg microbrewery). We currently have a block of 40 rooms reserved poolside in the Garrison building (and we can get more), so we will have a private location. Drawbridge is a mere five miles south of downtown Cincinnati, in Ft Mitchell, Kentucky. Take the Buttermilk Pike exit from Interstate 71/75 and go east one block. How much will this cost me ? Nothing. Apart from your meals and lodging, Beer & Sweat is absolutely free. Their is no admission fee of any kind, except the entry fee if you wish to enter a keg in the competition ( $5.00 first keg $1.00 each additional keg ). The absolutely astounding variety of top quality, fresh, draft homebrew you will be able to sample at no cost or obligation is guaranteed to boggle your mind. The Bloatarians like to have their friends over for a good time. Room rates at the Drawbridge are $55 a night for Beer & Sweat, which is almost 25% less then the normal room rate. Call 1-800-354-9793 for reservations. You must mention Beer & Sweat to get this room rate (tell them to put you poolside in the garrison building). Check-in time is 3:00 pm. We highly recommend you get a room for the night, either at Drawbridge or one of the nearby motels, past Beer & Sweats have gone very late and we don't want anyone who feels even slightly intoxicated to drive. How do I get an Invitation to Beer & Sweat? Beer & Sweat has grown to the point where we no longer feel comfortable mingling with the general public. But since you're a home brewer, you're invited. All we ask is that you bring your homebrew to share. As stated earlier, we have secured practically the exclusive use of the Garrison building at the Drawbridge. Slightly separated from the main complex, Garrison has an outdoor pool, tennis courts, and recreation area. There are plenty of ice machines and vending machines. Right next door to the Oldenberg brewery, and within a 5 minute walk of numerous fast food places. Beer & Sweat Special Competition: We encourage entries to the Beer & Sweat Open Draft Homebrew Competition. Beer & Sweat is the first and possibly still the only AHA sanctioned KEG ONLY competition. For a $5.00 entry fee (only $ 1.00 for each additional keg) you can enter a keg (no bottles) of ANY style beer, Get it set up (bring your own CO2, etc.) between 3 and 5 pm, pay your registration fee during setup, and be prepared to tap your keg yourself for the judges. Judging will take place at 5:00 pm. After the formal judging of registered entries, ALL kegs present will be eligible for the popular vote competition, and a prize will be awarded to the crowd favorite (nice trophy & mug !!). Tell them what they can win Bob. Actually it would be Robert. Robert Pinkerton has done a great job this year of hunting and gathering of prizes (plus a lot of out-right begging). The list of prizes is too long to list here but, Robert has succeeded in filling his office full of beer related prizes and can no longer find his desk. A final and complete listing of prizes will be available in the Official Beer & Sweat program, and donors will be thanked thru-out the year in our newsletter. But as a small thank-you the first 50 entries will receive a Sam Adams painters' hat and t-shirt. Each category winner will receive an award and prize. And this year's Best of Show winner will receive the first annual Marty Vinnings Cup (it looks GREAT !!!) and even a bigger prize. So get going and start working on your best homebrew recipes and I'll see you at The Drawbridge Estate August 12th for the 1995 Beer & Sweat. TTFN TBird Organizer 1995 Beer & Sweat Only AHA SCP All-Keg Contest Cincinnati Bloatarian Brewing League Aug. 12 Ft Mitchell, Ky. (Oldenberg/Drawbridge) tbird at iglou.com ci$: 71674,3330 Web Page http://www.iglou.com/members/tbird.html (needs updating...sorry!) P.S. We're still looking for prizes.... it's never to late to beg, or donate. So don't be left out of having your prize in THE kegging contest of the year. P.S.S. If you can't bring a keg or two, your more then welcome to bring your best homebrew in bottles. (sorry no prizes for bottles, just big grins.) P.P.S.S. Judges Always Welcome .... We can use more.... full points awarded for ANY program.... just give me a call or email Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 07:30:56 CDT From: khaycook at ns1.unicomp.net (Ken Haycook) Subject: 2nd Annual State Fair of Texas HB Competition Announcing the 1995 State Fair of Texas Homebrew and Texas Championship Homebrew Competition. Entrant information can be obtained by email or snailmail by contacting me at khaycook at unicomp.net Ken Haycook NTHBA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 09:11:05 -0400 From: Joe Pearl <joep at informix.com> Subject: Dry Hop Impaction <snip> Stan> Is there a good way to dry hop in a keg or should it go in the Stan> secondary? Thanks for any experience and advise. Stan Gregory Stan> Jacksonville, NC cn1428 at coastalnet.com Definitely dry hop in the secondary!!! joe. =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Joe Pearl Sr. Sales Engineer Informix Software Direct Voice: 813-615-0616 8675 Hidden River Parkway Fax: 813-632-9582 Tampa, FL 33637 Email: joep at informix.com (NeXTMail welcome) Non illegimati carborundum! PGP'd email preferred - for key: send me email w/subject "send me pgp key" =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 10:08:03 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: Re: Dry Hop Impaction, Homebrewing and Septic Systems Hi All, In HBD#1791, Stan Gregory asks: >Is there a good way to dry hop in a keg or should it go in the secondary? I've gotten great results dryhopping in a Corny keg. I use whole leaf or a plug, and put the hops in a sanitized nylon hop bag. I sanitize the bag with a 5 minute boil, and if using a plug, cut it into a half dozen pieces. Seems to help the plug break up into cones. Don't bother putting anything in the bag to weigh it down. A couple of people I know who did this had problems, once the bag sank and got involved with the pickup tube. Both of them had to open up the keg and fish the bag out with a coat hanger. I've read that the oils in hops that contribute aroma are soluble - you don't need to submerge the hops, just get them wet. Since the keg is sealed, the aromatics can't be scrubbed out by escaping CO2. I get a *lot* of hop aroma from just 1/2 ounce. I suggest starting with this amount, then make adjustments according to your taste. ********************************************************************* Also in HBD#1791, Jim Grady writes: >He went on >the say that his friend who owns a local sewer & drain company told him >(this is getting to be gossip at this point!) of a customer who was a >homebrewer and his septic system was in very good condition I had mine pumped last fall, 3 years since the last time. The guy who did the work remarked that it was one of the "cleanest" systems (I guess this was a relative term, huh? :-)) he had ever seen, almost no solid waste at all. He asked me what I was dumping in there that was keeping it so healthy. Just a quart or so of yeast slurry a couple times a month, and the occasional few gallons of BBrite. I mention this because of the "will I screw up my septic system if I dump santizer/yeast" posts that appear periodically. After 8 years of homebrewing, mine is doing just fine. ********************************************************************* A few digests back, Dion Hollenbeck posted that he aerates with pure O2, without filtering. I have heard that micro-organisms cannot survive in a pure 02 environmnt. I have an aquarium pump aeration system which works well enough, but handling the inline filter and trying to keep it sterile is a real PITA. I'm very interested in Dion's procedure, alas, he's off the air at the moment due to a job change. Is anyone else doing this??? I'd like to hear all the gory details, prices and sources for O2 tanks, how long do you oxygenize (is that a word?) at what pressure, how many batches per tank, etc. TIA, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:16:01 EDT From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: Nutrient value of beer / GT IX NUTRIENTS IN BEER: A FOOD section column in today's _Milwaukee Journal-Lite_ had a Q&A on the food value of beer. The question was: 'so-and-so told me that beer has a lot of vitamin B, but I thought it was all empty calories.' The columnist replied that there's more vitamin B in a bag of M&Ms and that beer is indeed empty calories. (She was a little less harsh toward wine, but not much) Now I can see that for an industrial corn or rice swill and for filtered beers, but a bottle-conditioned beer will indeed have a fair amount of Vitamin B, and an all-malt beer (and with a higher terminal gravity than corn/rice swill) will have some proteins from the grain. There's certainly more nutrition in a pint of beer than in a can of soda, a beverage that doesn't get all the bad press as beer. (And soda doesn't have the beneficial effects on the heart, either.) I'd like to reply to that columnist and set her and the readers straight. Obviously, "beer" represents a wide range of beverages, but does anyone have some hard figures on the types and amounts of nutrients in a beer, be it a pale ale or a stout or whatever. What kinds of data did Bert Grant try to put on his labels? Serious and INFORMED replies only, please; be able to document your information--it would be worse for beer lovers to be shown misstating the truth than to have said nothing at all. AS LONG AS I'M WRITING.... Please note that the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's Ninth Annual GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST<tm> is sold out (has been since early June); tickets for next year's tenth anniversary extravaganza go on sale 1 May 1996. We still get a few inquiries even in July. Part of the problem may be that many club newsletter calendars print events for only the next month. By the time an August event hits a newsletter's cycle, it's far too late for anyone to get tickets. Please pass the word on to your club's newsletter editors--you may want to list the event in the May calendar next year to coincide with the ticket sales. That way, you have fewer disappointed people; if they don't heed the advice to buy early, they have only themselves to blame. For those of you who already have your tickets, get psyched! In just over two weeks, you'll be sampling the Midwest's finest 200-or-so beers from just over 50 craft brewers...and at a reasonable price and without those silly and annoying beer tokens :-) Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Madison Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:31:26 -0400 From: PatrickM50 at aol.com Subject: Re: brew belts In a message dated 95-07-26 03:57:20 EDT, Kenn (with 2 n's) writes: >I am wondering if anyone has input on how to >brew in the heat -- how to get around it, etc. I don't have an extra >refrigerator for lagering. I have heard of those belts that can be >wrapped around fermenters to keep them at a steady 78 degrees (anybody >have any results on these buggers?). I think the belt you refer to is a "heating" belt, not a cooling belt, so I don't think it is a solution in your case. I have one that I used in the second batch of beer that I made many, many years ago. So far it remains the only batch I had to actually throw out! 78 degrees is a pretty high fermentation temp and, I believe, contributed to a horrendous number of off/yucky flavors in that forgettable brew. The belt was part of a single stage "Complete Beer Kit" that was made in Canada and included a large 7 gal. plastic fermentor with a lever action faucet that I still use. But I don't use the belt! YMMV, of course. You might try the "evaporative-cooling-T-shirt-covered-fermentor-in-a-bucket-of-water" technique that has been discussed many times on the HBD. Pat Maloney Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Jul 1995 07:32:18 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Scientific Mashing Breakthru! Well, Not really. But I did find out something that should be very helpful to many of you. I have been asking a few eminent homebrewers how much grain can be mashed in a fixed volume Cooler ex. a 5 gallon Gott. The answers have been helpful, but anecdotal, i.e. "I did X lbs for this batch". So, last night on the way home from work, I had a brainstorm. Why not mash 1 lb in 1 quart and see what the volume is?! Well, I did. I carefully weighed 1 lb of Great Western 2 Row malt, crushed it in my Maltmill and added it to 1 quart of 120F water. I let this sit for about 5 minutes. Since I only have a 1 quart pyrex measuring cup, I poured 24 oz of mash into the measuring cup and discarded it. I then poured in the remainder and measured it. It came to about 18 oz. It occured to me that because the first measurement was more fluid, and the second pretty stiff, I might be experiencing compaction, and not getting a good measurement. So, I measured out 2 more cups of hot water (16oz) and added it to the 2nd measure of mash in the quart measuring cup. If I had been paying better attention, I would have only added 1 cup. The liquid level rose to just over the 32 oz mark. Comparing the two measurements, I determined that the addition of 16 oz of water to the 18oz looked to be a change in volume of 16 oz, meaning that I had negligible compaction. So! We now have a brewing constant for figuring how much grain can be mashed in a fixed volume. 1 Pound of 2 Row Malt mixed with 1 Quart of Water produces a volume of 42 fluid ounces. If you are figuring a 1.5 quart per pound mash, then add in the additional half quart per pound as my measurements show that 1 quart per pound is already a saturated condition. In summary, 10 lbs of Malt at 1.5 qt/lb would fill just over 4.5 gallons, which would be do-able in a 5 gallon cooler. This would yield a 1.060 beer. John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:45:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Brittain <BRITTAIN at PCSA01.BARRY.EDU> Subject: Czech beer "Crystal" Does anyone have a recipe for a clone of the Czech beer "Crystal?" I have looked in the cat's meow w/ no luck. Private e-mail pls to brittain at pcsa01.barry.edu TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:46:59 -0500 (EDT) From: andy at hydroqual.com (A. Thuman) Subject: Nippers I recently came into the possession of some rolling rock 8oz beer bottles (nips, at least what we called them in high school). I was thinking of bottling my next batch in them (I don't look forward to cleaning and capping them all, but the idea of homebrew nips sounds fun). My question to the HBD collective is: 1. is priming the same (3/4 cup corn sugar/5 gal) - I assume so, 2. are there any worries about creating bombs with the smaller bottles or am I just over analyzing the situation and the same amount of internal force due to the carbonation is the same regardless of bottle size (equal head space). TIA, any actual experiences would also be interesting. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, they are green bottles. BTW, are green or brown bottles better, :) had to get that in there. - LONG TIME LURKER, FIRST TIME POSTER Take it easy, Andy Thuman - andy at hydroqual.com (only office email at the present moment) Rumson, NJ (yeah Bruce lives here, haven't seen him yet so I can't vouch for this yet) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:53:11 -0700 (MST) From: jharding at aztec.asu.edu (JOHN E. HARDING) Subject: Killian's Irish Red I am wondering if anyone has a receipe for George Killian's Irish Red. I have checked out The Cat's Meow and found a couple of close ones. Can anyone lend a hand? Regards, John - -- John Harding E-Mail Address: jharding at aztec.asu.edu Sysop - U-FO INFO BBS (GTPN Net/Node 009/005) Phoenix, AZ (602) 306-1345 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 8:59:40 -0700 (MST) From: DICKERSON at ECC7.ATENG.AZ.HONEYWELL.COM Subject: What are Kegs made of? I recently acquired a half-barrel keg that has handles on top but does not appear to be stainless steel. I think it is a Coors keg. I tried to see if a magnet would stick and it would not. I've talked with other brew folk and the consensus is the keg is aluminum. Does anyone have any idea what I have? One member of my brew club insists that even though the outside is not stainless steel, the inside must be. Concurrence/rebuttal? And if I can't use it for a mash tun/brew kettle, what does one do with an undocumented empty keg? TIA Jack D. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 12:24:30 EST From: kwh at roadnet.ups.com (Harralson, Kirk) Subject: Marzen follow-up Last week, I posted a request for information on Marzens, particularly DeGroen Marzen produced by the Baltimore Brewing Company. I had only one reply, but it was extremely informative. These are exerpts from information sent to me from Robert Chizmadia: >The yeast is definitely the Weinstephan 07 lager yeast, which is the >same as Wyeast's #1007. All his malts are Gambrinus (yes, North >American) two row. I'm not sure of the percentages of the grain, but >it is a mixture of Munich, crystal and lager malt. Finishing hops >are most likely Saaz, and bittering hops are problably Cluster. >These are what he uses on most of his beers. If you went to the GABF >last year, he gave pretty good descriptions of what malts and what >hops were used for some of his beers in the program. <snip> >It's a step infusion mash, have no idea on the temps. <snip> >He ferments I think around 54 and I think around 10 days. He then >transfers to the lagering room (take the tour, it's a great brewery) >for around 4 to 6 weeks. I was surprised by both the use of American 2-row and Cluster bittering hops. Does this fit into the traditional Marzen category? If not, is there a better category to classify it in? I certainly plan on making a batch, whatever it may be. Comments? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:21:17 -0700 From: Dave Pike <davep at cirrus.com> Subject: RE: Brass, FDA vs. AOB Dion Wrote: >OK, John, so how do you react to the blurb in BT about the FDA >"outlawing" brass in contact with food pH < 7 ? (page 12, v3n4). Is >this just another one of the FDAs, "Well, we're not sure so we'll just >disallow it" cover their ass schemes?? Then John wrote: <snip> > If you were to whip beer full of >air, then it would dissolve copper. (Matter of fact, if you were to oxygenate >your wort in a copper vessel, you would dissolve a lot more than normal beer >would.) The same holds true for other acidic foods. Beer that has not been >aerated or beer that is post fermentation carbonated will not significantly >corrode copper (no oxygen). What about the big boys(most notably Anchor) with copper brewhouses, that areate after lautering and before boiling? What do they do do avoid copper loss and more importantly, copper in their beer? Dave Pike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:10:31 -0700 From: "Stephen E. Hansen" <hansen at hops.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: Dry Hop Impaction In HBD 1971 Stan Gregory <cn1428 at coastalnet.com> wrote that when he dry hopped by adding a plug of EKG to his keg he ran into problems with some of the cones sinking to the bottom and clogging up the outflow tube. I dry hop most all of my ales and find that if you stuff the hops (whole or plug) in a mesh bag first you can avoid these kinds of problems. I've also tried it with and without weights to keep the hops from floating on top and didn't detect any difference. Happy hopping, Stephen Hansen =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Stephen Hansen, homebrewer | The church is near, but the road is icy. Stanford University | The bar is far away, but I will walk carefully. hansen at Hops.Stanford.EDU | -- Russian Proverb http://www.stanford.edu/~hansen =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:12:38 -0400 From: DocsBrew at aol.com Subject: Architecture Questionnaire revisited.... Dear James, Thank you for your posting of July 26. I think you have made your position even more clear. I apologize for the paranoid portion of the hbd collective who feel they must flame everyone for every reason - the fact is that you should expect flames every time you post anything. Nevertheless, good luck with your thesis. Shields Up! Doc. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:08:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: Cherries, Liefmanns Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> writes: > > From: Nick Hiams <oleum at spuddy.mew.co.uk> > > > PS does anyone know what to to with between 5 and 10 lb of dark very ripe > > cherries. I can't eat any more [I must've eaten about 10 lb already in the > > last week...and my wife ...and my kids...and everyone at work]. I thought > > of steeping them in brandy to make cherry brandy something like sloes and > > gin but I'd rather make a cherry beer. Anyone have a recipe for Liefmanns > > Kriek? This is gorgeous. > > You could try the lambic digest. They consider Liefmanns a bit too sweet > (and Lindemann's downright syrupy). If you're going to go for the rest of > the lambic character, you'll need some Brettanomyces, which is going to I was going to answer Nick, but the answer is not what most people want to hear: no one knows how to make Liefmanns. Although Liefmanns is NOT a lambic, the lambic digest is a good place to discuss efforts at its emulation. Liefmanns is an oud bruin/old brown/sour brown/Flanders brown. As with most Belgian styles, the yeast and fermentation are more important, or at least harder to figure out, than the "recipe." Head Start Brewing cultures has a couple of cultures that are meant to be from this type of beer. Here is the BURP Labs info on this beer: ***************************************************** Brewing Belgian Beers (#4): Oud Bruins Description: 1.045-1.060, 4.8-6% ABV, 15-25 IBU, 10-20 SRM Red, deep copper or deep brown with red tints. Acidic aroma with some fruitiness. Flavor sweet, sour and fruity, esp. cherry-like. Lactic and acetic flavors ok. Attenuation low to medium. Medium carbonation, body medium to full. Addition of raspberries or cherries ok, should blend with other flavors, may provide additional acidity. Low bitterness, no hop flavor or aroma. No diacetyl. Most commercial examples are richly colored with a fruity, acidic aroma and an intensely fruity, sweet and sour palate. Sourness varies in commercial examples, many of which are filtered and sweetened. Can become wine-like with age. Many commercial examples include a secondary fermentation on raspberries or sour cherri es, and the flavors this contributes should be clear and should balance with the existing acidity and sweetness. Brewing method Homebrewers have yet to master this style. It appears that basic grists include pilsner malt, caramel malts, sometimes Vienna or Munich, and sometimes roasted malts in very small quantities for coloring. In some cases the deep color is achieved by long boils. Lactic and acetic bacteria provide the necessary acidity, an d these may need a long time to achieve the proper acidity. Additions of lactic acid to finished beer may work. When used, fruit should be added to the secondar y at 1-2 lbs per gallon of beer. Any cherries used should be sour! Carbonation is relatively standard, so 3/4 to 7/8 of a cup of sugar should be used to prime a 5 gallon batch. Extract brewers should start with pale extract and use lots of caramel malts. Try to pick a yeast that's not going to attenuate too much. Keep in mind that you're experimenting. However, if you're the first to brew a really good one of these, you will earn a substantial laurel wreath, and perhaps the Homebrew Nobel Prize. Common problems 1. Inadequate acidity. Add lactobacillus culture, ferment longer, or add lactic acid. 2. Fruit flavors thin or inappropriate. Increase quantity of fruit, or use sour fruit instead of pie cherries! 3. Too light in color. Increase use of caramel malts and/or boil time. Commercial examples Goudenband (5.1% ABV), Rodenbach Grand Cru (6.5% ABV), Liefmans Framboise (5.7% ABV), Liefmans Kriek Sample recipe Bill Ridgely's Framboise (partial mash recipe for 5 gallons) RIDGELY at A1.CBER.FDA.GOV 3.3 lbs American Classic Light liquid extract 2.0 lbs Pale dry extract 1.0 lb Pale ale malt 0.5 lb Munich malt 0.5 lb 80L crystal 0.5 lb Wheat malt 0.5 lb dextrin malt 1.0 oz Hallertau (4.2%) boiled for 60 minutes 1.0 oz Saaz (3.2%) boild for 45 minutes 6.0 lbs Tart red raspberries Fermented with Wyeast Belgian yeast OG: 1.062 FG: 1.015 Used step mash for grains--120 degrees for 30 minutes (protein rest), 150 degrees for 60 minutes (saccrification rest). Gypsum was added to adjust the mash pH. Total boil time 1.5 hours. Raspberries were crushed and added to the brewpot at the end of the boil, then steeped for 15 minutes before wort chilling. The raspb erries were left in the primary for 7 days, then strained during transfer of wort to the secondary. Total fermentation time: 24 days. Fermentation temperature: 62F. Recommended All-Grain variation (using Belgian malts at 27 points/lb): 9.0 lbs pale ale malt 1.0 lb aromatic malt 1.0 lb wheat malt 0.5 lb caramunich 0.5 lb Special B All other ingredients and procedures remain the same. [Phil's note: This recipe was the closest to the real thing I've tasted, with one exception: it lacked the necessary sourness, although some was supplied by the raspberries. Nevertheless this recipe with an additional acid component or lactic fermentation seems like an excellent starting point for experimentation] *******************End BURP labs info***************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:10:51 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Clarification. > From: Russel Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> > Subject: Cherries. > You could try the lambic digest. They consider Liefmanns a bit too sweet You fool! (Or should that be "me fool"?) Liefmanns isn't a LAMBIC it's a Flanders Brown Ale. Of course, Liefmanns kriek has a few things in common with many kriek lambics. 1 - it's delicious. 2 - it's made with cherries. 3 - it's belgian 4 - if you really want to clone it right, you should think "brettanomyces" 5 - it's delicious 6 - Lambic Digest is an appropriate place to discuss them 7 - so's this. Use all your cherries in a 3.5 gallon batch. -bRussell ps. Special hanks to Spencer Thomas. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:45:16 -0400 From: jds at equinox.shaysnet.com (John Shearer) Subject: old grains/all-grain Greetings all! First, I posted some time ago asking about using grains that have been cracked and have been sitting around a while. Well, here's the poop: several people responded, all saying about the same thing. If you have cracked grains and don't intend to use them right away, be sensible - treat them like bread (cool, dark, and airtight - what about freezing? (my own opinion)). Many people used grain that has been sitting around for as long as a month with the following to say -"It's not the good flavors that the grain loses, but the bad flavors that develop". So, my suggestion of using more grains only holds partially true - you may help the malt flavor and gravity, but the off flavors will still be there. (BTW, one guy said he noticed a 5% drop in lautering efficiency with his old grains with the same equipment) So, in conclusion - (as one responder said) If you are looking for a Best of Show, don't even use your week old grain. If you are looking for cheap and drinkable, your year old grain should be fine. I do have another question on this: No one seemed to know what actually happens to the grain as it ages. Do any of you Grain Gurus know? ***************************************************************** I brewed my first all grain batch this weekend! Yippeee! I thought I'd pass along the stats (I thought they were quite good). The batch was five gallons of pale ale. 50 min mash (iodine test showed conversion at 45min) 30 min sparge (had trouble regulating the flow) 60 min boil electric stove copper manifold in lauter-tun immersion cooler I had the grains cracked at my local HB shop, and my starter was made two days before brewing. Total time including cleanup - 4 hours! Efficency - 82%, 29 ppg. (Checked just before pitching) Am I lucky that things went so well? From what I've heard, most people take a much longer time with less efficiency. (Sorry if I'm tooting my own horn, but I didn't think all grain would be so easy :-) I'll let you know in two weeks how it turned out! By the way - Thanks to everyone who responds to the questions posted here (mine and others). They make my brewing life much easier! Yours in brewing, john Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Neal Higgins <higgins at uofport.edu> Subject: Gesundheit malt syrup Any home brew history buffs out there? I am interested in finding information on "Gesundheit" malt syrup distributed by Victor Neustadtl during Prohibition. "Gesundheit" was one of the largest selling malt syrups and it was marketed nation wide. He gave away a variety of premiums to promote the product and I would like to locate a poster. Any information would be appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:27:56 -0400 From: TRoat at aol.com Subject: Irish Moss after the fact Ooops....go running for the collective. I brewed a batch of Old Ale (Thanks GlynnB9776). However, I forgot to add Irish Moss at the end of the boil. Is there any other time after being placed in the primary that irish moss can be added to the beer and have the intended effect? Or is the boiling of the beer the important action required for IM to do its thing....a one time opportunity only? Thanks. Todd Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1792, 07/27/95