FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Lager / Sparge arm Q's (/O=PRDMSMAC/S=HUMPHREY/G=PATRICK/)
  REQUEST: PVC MANIFOLD SETUP/SPARGE RATES (Glen_Baldridge)
  flat beer (Tim Membrino)
  Wyeast Belgian Wit yeast -- tart? (Chris Shenton)
  Stainless vs Aluminum/Sight Glasses (Kirk R Fleming)
  Brewing in plastic containers (Daniel Richardson)
  Re: Wheeler Real Ale Books (Brian Gowland)
  RJ Riptides in San Diego (HBD #1793) (Brandon's Daddy)
  Suds for Windows (Allen Born)
  Re: Oxygen tanks (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Gambinus/Weihenstephen 34/70 - Lagers and esthers ("William D. Knudson")
  Partial Mash questions ("Mark W. Wilson")
  Shelf life of bottled beer (kdschida)
  More O2 (Jim Busch)
  Re: More O2 (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Aeration & Foaming (LEE_BOLLARD)
  Gambrinus and clusters (Jim Busch)
  Mashing rice (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Re: Booze in Space (Glen J. Stephan) (by way of rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen))
  Wheeler Brewing Books (Ray Daniels)
  False Bottoms (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  Help with keg conversions (GubGuy)
  basmati rice / ftp server (Bart Thielges)
  Thermodynamic Sulphur Chillout (Part 1) (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:09:43 -0600
From: /O=PRDMSMAC/S=HUMPHREY/G=PATRICK/ at x400.pprd.abbott.com
Subject: Lager / Sparge arm Q's

I attempted to brew a lager clone similar to Heiniken (sp.) last week and I
have a few questions.  

I don't have a basement and I my extra refrigerator is filled with homebrew so
I had to resort to the bucket/towel/t-shirt method of cooling.  Not easy to do
during the 100 deg weather we have had and no air conditioning!  I was able to
use my kids toy storage tub (about a 25 gallon plastic tub with handles) as my
cooling bath.  I filled with water and kept the temperature between 50-55 deg F
for the entire fermentation using blocks of ice.  The temperature was by no
means constant and I don't know what effect this temperature variation will
have on the flavor.

The primary is now finished (8 days) and I will rack to secondary in a day or
so.  My question is do I need to retain the temperature at 50-55 deg. during
the secondary?  What about during bottle conditioning?  Since the most vigorous
fermentation is completed I wouldn't think this temperature would matter as
much.

On another topic...

I recently purchased a Phil's sparge arm from a reputable mail order supplier
in preparation for my first all grain batch.  I assembled the support and did a
trial sparge in my Gott with tap water.  The spray was fine but the arm did not
turn.  The  connection "T" where the arm connects to the sprayer seems too
stiff to spin.  
(bad ASCII art to follow...)

                         -------   <----- water flow 
	                        |	|----
	                        |	|
	                        |	|
                        	|	|
                        	|	|
	                        |	|
        	Joint seems to 	|	|
         be tight here	  |	| 
    |__________________**|_|__________________|
    |_________________________________________|
	                         *

Does anyone know if this will loosen when I add the hot sparge water or do I
need to send it back and get a new one?  I don't want to use WD40 on this
thing.

Please use this e-mail address:  patrick.humphrey at abbott.com
The number of internal e-mail gateways tends to leave the address as listed in
the header.


________________________

On the subject of agar plates or slants, 1.5%-2.0% is the standard amount of
agar used.  Someone posted the amount 15-20% (WHOA!).  I think he ment to say
15-20 grams per liter of media.  An ounce is approximately 37 grams. There are
454 grams in a pound.

A medium we currently use for fungi/yeasts is called Potato buds agar.  They
grow quite well on this medium and it can be made from common ingredients.

Here is the formulation:

Potato Buds            20 grams
Dextrose (corn sugar)  10 grams
Agar                   15 grams
Water                  1 Liter
Pressure sterilize  20 minutes, 15-20 ml/plate.

(Potato Buds are from Betty Crocker although other kinds work fine)


Thanks,

Pat


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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 16:11:05 PST
From: Glen_Baldridge at ccmail.medicus.com
Subject: REQUEST: PVC MANIFOLD SETUP/SPARGE RATES

     Two issues for the collective to help make jump to all-grain:
     
     1) I am looking for help to design a slotted PVC manifold for a Gott 
     type mash/lauter system.  For those who have had success, what type of 
     geometric design are you using?  What are you using to cut the slots 
     (is a hacksaw OK ?) Where are the slots cut (top/bottom/sides), how 
     deep are they and how far apart are they spaced?
     
     2) Does sparging seem to follow the 80/20 rule? That is, are 80% of 
     sugars removed by the first 20% of sparge H2O?  I would like to do 
     partial boils/chills and am willing to use more grain to compensate 
     for lost sparge efficiency.
     
     TIA,
     
     Glen Baldridge     


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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 18:03:56 EDT
From: membrino%foghorn at nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Tim Membrino)
Subject: flat beer


I recently brewed an extract Porter recipe with specialty grains
suggested by my local homebrew store owner.  I had an O.G. of 1.047
and after about a 12 days got a stable F.G. of 1.006.  I bottled
with the standard 3/4 cup of corn sugar (this was a 5 gal. batch)
and waited patiently for 2 weeks.

I tasted the first bottles 16 days after bottling and found to my
disappointment that the beer is VERY flat.  NO head.  Only a small
amount of "fizzy-noise" on opening.  Obviously I didn't get the
carbonation I wanted.  The beer tastes great...just flat.  My thoughts
are that the excessive heat retarded conditioning in the bottles.
I am an apartment dweller and thus cannot store my brew in a nice
cool place other than the closet.  The apt. has easily gotten over
90 during this heat wave (no air conditioning).

The helpful homebrew store owner said the F.G. was pretty low and that
the typical 3/4 cup of corn sugar may not have been enough for good
carbonation.

I'm VERY new to homebrewing and this is my first Porter.  I'm trying
to learn from my mistakes and was curious if anyone had other suggestions
or similar experiences as to the cause.  Any solutions?  (at least the
beer tastes good!)

Thanks,

Tim Membrino
membrino at nadc.nadc.navy.mil

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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 22:19:12 GMT
From: Chris Shenton <cshenton at apollo.hq.nasa.gov>
Subject: Wyeast Belgian Wit yeast -- tart? 

Made up a 10gal batch of back-o-the-envelope Wit a couple weeks ago:
10# pale ale malt, 10# wheat malt (yeah, malted), a little oats, some
cardomom, some orange peel...  Had to do decoction cuz the strike
temp was too low, and I was using a picnic cooler with slotted pipe
manifold.

Pitched with Wyeast Belgian Wit, which I haven't used before.

It started fermenting beautifully, then slowed down a week later, so I
secondaried; gravity was rather high still. A couple days later, it
started fermenting again, with ugly, big, slimy-looking bubbles. Uh,
oh -- major contamination! (Haven't had that since my second batch!)-:

Let it ferment another week anyway, and threw in kegs with some boiled
dry malt extract for priming.  Tasted rather tart. Not sure, but it
reminds me of a lighter cousin of Goudenband. Might this be OK, and
appropriate for the yeast?

Question is: is the Belgian Wit yeast a two-strain beast, and is it
supposed to give that tartness a la Goudenband? or Rodenbach (which
would be a real win :-)

Thanks.

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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:28:16 -0600
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Stainless vs Aluminum/Sight Glasses

RE: #1792

BixMeister asked about sight glass construction:
- ------------------------------------------------

Our kettle has a 1/2" NPT brass nipple threaded into the SS coupling
which is welded thru the keg just above the bottom chine.  I drilled
and tapped a hole into the nipple parallel to the axis of the keg, to
accept a 1/8" NPT hose barb fitting.  I then used an 18" section of
polyethylene icemaker supply line as the sight glass.  This tubing is
fitted onto the hose barb.

I used a 1/2" dia aluminum tube 18" long as a support sleeve over the
polyethylene tubing.  The front-facing half of the tube is removed
from 3" from the bottom to within 2" of the top of the aluminum tube,
and the sleeve is simple slipped down over the polyehthylene.

The polyethylene tubing is about 3/8" OD, and maybe 1/4" ID.  During
the boil, air bubbles get into the tube and dork up the reading.  We
have to shut down the burner for a few seconds, take a reading, then
re-fire up the burner.  Also, polyethylene is not recommended for use
with barbed fittings due to stress-induced cracking with such joints.
We haven't had a problem, yet.

Also, since the polyethylene tube is an opaque white it is troublesome
to get a good reading with a pale wort.  I'll try to find a genuine
glass sight glass of about 1/2" diameter next time, and I recommend if
you have disposable cash that's the way to go.  I understand the 
McMaster-Carr catalog has sight glasses listed.

Jack Dickerson (DICKERSON at ECC7.ATENG.AZ.HONEYWELL.COM) asked:
- -------------------------------------------------------------

> I recently acquired a half-barrel keg that has handles on top but does
> not appear to be stainless steel.  I think it is a Coors keg.

> Does anyone have an idea what I have?

The difference between stainless and aluminum is very apparent: stainless
is a silvery-steel having a color identical to tableware (silverware).
Aluminum is a whitish material.  All Coors kegs I have seen are stainless,
and are stamped "Coors".

Another way to distinguish aluminum from stainless is to look at the welds:
aluminum welds are about 1/4" to 5/16" wide with a noticeable rounded rise
above the adjacent material.  Stainless welds are closer to 1/8" to 3/16"
wide and more or less flush with the adjacent material.  Any signs of bluish
discoloration in the area of the weld joints indicates stainless...
aluminum weld joints have no discoloration relative to the adjacent material.  
Stainless "rings" when hit--aluminum sounds much more highly damped.
Finally, attempt to scrape the surface of the keg with a sharp utility blade
(hold the blade perpendicular to the line of motion).  If the blade simply
slides across the keg even under extreme pressure, it's stainless. If the
blade curls up a sliver of material, it's probably aluminum.  Compare the
color of a RevereWare saucepan with a pie-tin.  RevereWare is stainless,
pie-tins are generally aluminum.

As far as the claim the inside "must be" stainless, the answer is no. To
my knowledge there are no multi-material kegs (other than the Sanke's
with plastic covered ends).  With this exception noted, stainless kegs
are all-stainless, aluminum kegs are all-aluminum.  

DISCLAIMER: I have not personally seen every keg produced by every keg
manufacturer.  However, I'm VERY confident there are no aluminum kegs
lined with stainless.


KRF Colorado Springs


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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 16:43:00 PDT
From: Daniel Richardson <DJR at wapet.com.au>
Subject: Brewing in plastic containers


I used to brew in 1.25 and 1.5 litre plastic containers (cool drink type). 
 I found that after long periods in storage, (more than 12 months) that the 
beer lost its carbonation and was wasted.  I no longer brew in these 
containers!.  One advantage, however was that by placing the containers in 
the freezer for about 1/2 hour that the sediment froze in the bottom of the 
bottle.

Dan Richardson

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:29:05 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk>
Subject:  Re: Wheeler Real Ale Books

In HBD 1793, jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler) wrote:

> I'm thinking of mail ordering one of the Wheeler real ale books.
> The question is which one. How do they differ? [Rest cut]

        "Home Brewing - The CAMRA Guide" by Graham Wheeler is very
much a "process" book but has a reasonable selection of ale recipes.
The book describes UK commercial practices (traditional and modern)
and GW translates these into the home environment. It is aimed
specifically at the UK market and covers kit, extract, partial &
full mash methods. Its not perfect but its considered by many UK
homebrewers to be about the best native UK book on the subject. If
you're familiar with traditional UK methods (such as single temp.
infusion mashing & cask conditioning) then much of the information
may not be necessary but if you want further insight into how Real
Ale should be made then its worth getting. There's also a section
on the history of various ale styles.
        "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" by Graham Wheeler & Roger
Protz is much more of a recipe book although it contains enough
information (abridged from the other book) to get a novice started.
There's over 100 recipes (created by GW) based on commercial British
ales - each has tasting notes by RP). I've brewed a number of the
recipes and, being lucky enough to get hold of the real thing easily,
will say that all were very close to the originals (some are near
perfect IMO).

> ...if you need his process to make the recipes work, then I would be
> more interested in that.

        To a certain extent you DO need to follow his processes to
make the recipes work. GW instructs the reader in methods that are
as close to commercial UK brewing practices as is possible in the
home environment. If you want to emulate Real Ale then you should
use accepted methods in common with commercial UK breweries now and
in the past. In saying that, however, the processes he describes
aren't necessarily that much different from what many people on this
list seem to use (for ale making at least). Even UK homebrewers who
consider his books to be their brewing "bibles" interpret his instructions
to suit their own circumstances.

Cheers,
        Brian


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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 09:27:05 -0400
From: joep at informix.com (Brandon's Daddy)
Subject: RJ Riptides in San Diego (HBD #1793)

Michael,

>>>>> Michael D Fairbrother writes:

 Michael> While in San Diego, I had some honey ale at RJ Riptides, it
 Michael> was quite good.  Being new to the brewing process I was
 Michael> wondering how they got the honey flavor to be so pronounced.
 Michael> I suspect that they might of used some sort of yeast that dies
 Michael> off early.  The one attempt that I tried ended up making a
 Michael> beer with quite the punch, all the honey fermented.

 Michael> Any way if anyone knows the scoop, I would love to try and
 Michael> recreate that beer.

While I can't comment on how to make that exact brew, I did make a honey
ale with a pronounced honey flavor and aroma.  It was an extract with 3
lbs of Palmetto Blossom honey (a strong-ish honey) and 4 lbs Alexander's
Pale, an Alexander's Pale kicker (1.4 lbs).  I used 12 oz of Crystal 20
and 8 oz of Cara-Pils.  Hops:  8.0%AA Pride of Ringwood (1 oz for 60
min, 1 oz for 30 min); 5.2%AA Liberty (2 oz steeped for 5 minutes).

Came out great!!

joe.
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Joe Pearl                              Sr. Sales Engineer
Informix Software                      Direct Voice:  813-615-0616
8675 Hidden River Parkway              Fax:           813-615-0638
Tampa, FL  33637                       Email:    joep at informix.com
(NeXTMail welcome)

Non illegimati carborundum!

PGP'd email preferred - for key: send me email w/subject "send me pgp key"
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:18:41 -0400
From: Allen Born <BornA at USA.RED-CROSS.ORG>
Subject:  Suds for Windows

I'm having problems with Suds 4.0 for Windows, which I
downloaded  from "The Brewery" which I accessed through
Spencer's Beer Page.  When I try to run the program my
screen goes blank, something flashes up that appears to say
"Header C Error" and then my screen returns to my regular
windows screen.  Has anyone had a similar problem with this
program?  Can anyone point me to a copy of the program that
works.  Could be that I'm doing something wrong but I just
don't know.  TIA,  Allen.


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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 08:14:25 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Oxygen tanks

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:

Jim> While I agree that O2 under pressure is sanitary, the fact that I
Jim> use welding gas could lead to some residule oils/particulate
Jim> matter.

I have to disagree with this statement about residual oils.  One of
the "prime directives" about welding is that you never, never, never
use any oil near or in an oxygen regulator.  This is causing a
disaster waiting to happen, putting something flammable in the
presence of pure oxygen.  Since this is true, I would assume that gas
supply companies go to extreme lengths to make sure that there is no
oil in their oxygen.  That would be a lawsuit waiting to happen to
them if they had any residual oils.  While I do not know this for a
fact, it is highly unlikely that what you say is true.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM MOVING!!!!!

AFTER August 4th please use:  hollen at vigra.com
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Date: 28 Jul 95 11:16:00 EDT
From: "William D. Knudson" <71764.203 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Gambinus/Weihenstephen 34/70 - Lagers and esthers

Ditto on Norm's comment regarding Gambrinus (Baltimore Brewing's Maerzen).

Per Dan Gordon of Gordon Biersch, Gambrinus is headed by a Weihenstephan
graduate.  The maltster employs a floor malting technique.  Here in Colorado, I
understand that many Micros have switched to this as a base malt: lagers and
ales!
This is the base malt for the Gordon Biersch.

I have a question about Rob Reed's yeast comment:

>...perhaps he was think about Wyeast 2124 Bohemian lager (Weihenstephen >34/70)
strain?

I consulted the table in the Zymurgy Summer 1994 issue page 50.  It states that
the Wyeast California Lager 2112 is the 34/70 rather than the Bohemian.  Anyone
have any more on this?

Oops, on second look the desciption for Wyeast Danish (just above "California")
says "Warm fermenting bottom cropping strain, ferments well to 62 degrees F..."

It looks like most of the descriptions in that table are off one line.

I do have a lager question.  When I brew lagers, I (immersion) chill to ~70
degrees, aeriate and pitch the starter.  I then take the carboy to the
controlled fridge chill to 48 degrees.  Lag times are less than 24 hours.  I
have experienced some unwanted floral (estery ?) characters in the finished
beer.    The first bubbles never occur at temperatures greater than 52 degrees.
In particular I've observed this using Wyeast Bavarian #2206. Temperature
readings are per a Fermometer on the carboy.

Are esters formed in the lag period?  Should I delay pitching for the several
hours until desired ferment temperatures are achieved? (talk about worrying!)

Bill 

"Ich kann besser Deutsch sprechen, wenn ich etwas Bier getrunken habe."


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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:37:20 -0700
From: "Mark W. Wilson" <mwilson at ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Partial Mash questions

  Just tried my first partial mash, from the recepie in Miller, "Northern
Brown Ale".  I didn't have any iodine, and the pH papers that I bought in a
pinch seem to be less than accurate; they never really settled on a
particular color.
  Mashed 2 lbs. English 2-row with 1/2 lb. crystal and a tad of chocolate.
Since the pH "seemed" to be normal, I did not treat the mash water, and it
appeared to have normal pH(5.3).  On a whim I treated my 2 gal. of sparge
water with 1 tsp. gypsum.  One step mash stove-top mash at 154-145F.
  Sparging seemed to be really slow at first (I used a colander) but as I
added the treated sparge water the flow rate increased fairly rapidly.  I
got really scared when I took the gravity before boiling: 1.010!  (It was
1.000 before it cooled to room temperature!!)
  After boiling with 1 can malt extract and 1 lb. brown sugar, I topped of
to five gallons.  A very trub-laden OG sample was 1.060! (Miller says it
should be 1.048.)
  Should I be panicking, relaxing, or just ready for some watery beer?

- --Mark

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 9:09:01 PDT
From: kdschida at vines.dsd.litton.com
Subject: Shelf life of bottled beer

Hello all:

I was once told about a year ago or so (by whom, I can't remember) that
our homebrew should not spend more than 5-6 months in the bottle, or the
flavor will start deteriorating.  However, I've been noticing in several
messages on HBD (I've been lurking here about a month now) that people
are commenting how thier beer has improved even past a year.  Can it
really not only stay good, but actually improve with age up to and past
this time frame?  If so, I've got a couple questions:

	1)	Is some kind of additive/preservative (HISS) used to make it
		last this long?  (Or am I just naive and believed this person
		at face value - without questioning.)

	2)	How are you guys/ladies able to keep your beer that long before
		drinking it all (unless of course you make 10 - 20 gallons at 
		a time).  Although I've just recently gotten into all-graining, I'm
		still only making 5 gal. batches.

BTW, does anybody have a *GOOD* Christmas/Holiday beer recipe.
Made a Holiday Ale last year from a kit and just tasted like ordinary
beer; not very exciting when I was expecting something quite special.

TIA,

Kurt Dschida
kdschida at vines.dsd.litton.com
or  Compuserve: 76132,733

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:20:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: More O2

Dion says:

<I have to disagree with this statement about residual oils.  One of
<the "prime directives" about welding is that you never, never, never
<use any oil near or in an oxygen regulator.

This makes perfect sense and I was passing along misinformed second
hand info.  The part about particulate matter is still an issue but
I can see the problem of oils and O2!  Anyway, the point is that
use a filter if it moves you but It probably wont matter.

Jim Busch

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 09:20:16 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: More O2

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:

Jim> Dion says:
Jim> <I have to disagree with this statement about residual oils.  One of
Jim> <the "prime directives" about welding is that you never, never, never
Jim> <use any oil near or in an oxygen regulator.

Jim> This makes perfect sense and I was passing along misinformed second
Jim> hand info.  The part about particulate matter is still an issue but
Jim> I can see the problem of oils and O2!  Anyway, the point is that
Jim> use a filter if it moves you but It probably wont matter.


Agreed.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM MOVING!!!!!

AFTER August 4th please use:  hollen at vigra.com
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 11:28:54 -0600
From: LEE_BOLLARD at HP-Spokane-om2.om.hp.com
Subject: Aeration & Foaming

Item Subject: Aeration and foaming
     
     
     I recently acquired an aquarium pump aeration system (from Brewer's 
     Resource) and wanted to query those of you using such a system as to 
     how you handle the "foaming" problem.
     
     The instructions included with the aeration system say that "foaming 
     will usually not be a problem".  For me, foaming has been a consistent 
     problem.  
     
     Even with 400% head space I have foaming problems in 2L starter 
     flasks.  When siphoning boiled/cooled wort from kettle to carboy I 
     held back about 1.5 gallons for "foam space".  Even so, I could only 
     run the aeration pump for a couple minutes at a time before the foam 
     expanded to the carboy neck. While the pump was off the foam subsided 
     *very* slowly.
     
     On the other hand, could you just let the foam exit out the top of the 
     carboy while you keep the pump running?  Is this good or bad?
     
     Do any of you "aerators" have any tricks to share that make the 
     aeration-pump process easier?
     
     Lee Bollard
     bollard at spk.hp.com
     

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:51:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Gambrinus and clusters

Norm says:

<I'd be surprised if they get away with using Clusters in this beer, 
<but I've seen much stranger.

Why?  Whats so strange about using a mid-high alpha hop in a 
recipe that only needs ~20 BUs from the kettle hops.  Flavor 
problems here?

<Secondly, I wouldn't call the Gambrinus malt "American 2-row"; that 
<is misleading.

The original post clearly indicated North American 2 row, and 
Canada is most certainly a huge part of North America.

<The owner of Gambrinus, can't recall his name just now, is a Weinstephan
<graduate who markets his grain as a reasonable substitute, or maybe a better
<choice, for German grains.

Thats Weihenstephan, and he's a Diplom Braumeister. 

"Better" than German??!  Are you going to tell me this is better than
Wyermann or Durst malts. In what way, higher Kolbach index!!?  Higher
cost per container load than Wyermann (a Bamberg malting house)?

Please correct my misunderstanding, I need to know the truth from one
who consistently "out brews the professionals".

Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:00:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Mashing rice

Here is what I know about mashing rice:
The rice is combined with about 10% of the barley malt that will be used.
Water is added and this is brought up to amylase temps (~150F).  This is
held only briefly, after which this mixture is brought to a boil.  This
is then added to the main mash, I believe it is used to facilitate the
transition of the main mash to amylase temps.

I don't know how or if the rice is ground.  I assume water treatment is
the same, although I would assume that the rice has less ability to
lower pH than malt, so you might need more acid and less calcium, YMMV.

Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/beerstuff/beerpage.html

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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:42:59 -0500
From: gstep at interaccess.com (Glen J. Stephan) (by way of rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen))
Subject: Re: Booze in Space

From: sci.faux.news
Date: July 21, 1995
To: mailroom at net.net
Subject: Cloudy Thinking


Scientists studying G34.3, a recently discovered massive cloud of alcohol
approximately 10Kly (~580 trillion miles) distant in the direction of
Aquilla, have announced new findings in the August publication of The
Australian Astronomer.

Dr. Yangzee Wong, of the University of Adelaide in Melbourne, states that
contrary to initial beliefs, G34.3 is not flat.

In fact, states Wong, high resolution optical observations made by the HST,
in conjunction with infrared recordings from the IRAS (InfraRed Astronomy
Satelite) indicate a second, but apparently attached component to the cloud.

These observations confirm that the main component of G34.3 consists of
mostly ethyl alchohol with a few "jets", or streams of "bubbles" imbedded
within.  These streams appear to consist of simple carbon dioxide gas
molecules, discount early prepots that the cloud was flat.

Additionally, a new, second component has been found apparently on top of
the first.  This new component seems to consist of a carbon dioxide gas
"froth", bound together by a thin, web-like network of as-yet unidentified
organic materials.  This second component is visible in the optical spectrum
at the faint magnitude 16, and is variably reported to have a light-brown to
light-tan to off-white color.

When asked to comment on this new discovery, Dr. Wong simply said, "G34.3
appears to have a head on it!"




__________________________________________________________________________

Glen J. Stephan                                      gstep at interaccess.com
Co-Founder,                        
Arachnid World Wide       http://www.interaccess.com/users/gstep/arachnid/
__________________________________________________________________________




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Date: 28 Jul 95 18:32:24 EDT
From: Ray Daniels <71261.705 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Wheeler Brewing Books

Jay Weissler (jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com) writes:  I'm thinking of mail
ordering one of the Wheeler real ale books. The question is which one. How do
they differ?

I have both books and would strongly recommend that you get the "Real Ale" title
("Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home").  This is co-authored with Roger Protz.  It
spends only about 50 pages on brewing process and then lists more than 100 pages
of recipes.  All the recipes are based upon the actual recipes for brand-name
English ales including bitters, pales, milds, porters, stouts, old ales and
barley wines.

The earlier Wheeler book ("Home Brewing: The CAMRA Guide") is much more focused
on process, has fewer recipes and gives fewer details for each recipe.

By the way, most of the "Real Ale" recipes are all grain.  Also, they call for
English hop varieties, which in addition to Goldings and Fuggles, include things
like Challenger, Northdown and Progress.

I think "Real Ale" is a great book.  I hope you'll enjoy it too.


Regards,



Ray Daniels



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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 08:57:57 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: False Bottoms

Alfa Laval, the Swedish mega brewery makers, published a guide to brewery 
processes and equipment in which they were kind enough to describe their false 
bottoms. (Lauter Tun plates)

   " The false bottom in the lauter tub consists of sections joined together by 
locks to prevent gaps between the sections.    Modern lauter tuns have a 
diameter of approximatly 8 metres. (wow!) The perforations are either circular, 
with a diameter of    0.8 to 1 mm, or slots with a long axis of 20 to 30 mm and 
a short axis of 0.4 to 0.7 mm. The slots are 10 mm apart in staggered    rows. 
The plates are 5 mm thick. (bit much for HB, say 2mm) A section with oblong 
slots is milled 3mm wide and 4mm deep    from the underside to prevent 
clogging."

It seems if you drill holes or mill slots, it is a good idea to drill or mill a 
wider hole or slot from the back until about 1mm thickness of the narrow 
opening remains. This apparently prevents clogging. I'm making one this week, 
slot type, I'll report.

Thanks Alfa Laval !

Charlie     (merino at ozemail.com.au)










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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:04:01 -0400
From: GubGuy at aol.com
Subject: Help with keg conversions

Greetings all!

     After a forced 6 month or so hiatus from brewing (new house, work
associated with a new house, etc.), I am ready to once again brew beer.  I
mentioned this to a friend of mine, saying that I would like to improve my
brewing setup and go to a larger, keg type arrangement.  Upon hearing this,
he offered to give me 2 kegs he has had in his basement for many years
(leftovers from college days), stating that he would be glad to give them a
good home, and that also he had been wanting to get rid of them for some
time.  So I am now the prod owner of 2 kegs in need of conversion.  I know
really very little about this; I couldn't find a FAQ on it anywhere and my
own experience with them is a big goose egg.  I can get the top sawed off
(friend with major tool collection), but several questions come to mind.
 These presumeably have VERY old beer left in them.  Would this be any cause
for concern?  Or should I just hold my breath during the cleaning and sanitze
like mad?  Having never actually seen on of these setups in person, I have to
speculate on a few things (disadvantage of living in The Beer Wastelands).
 Can valves be added without welding?  Addresses for any place that supplies
parts for this kind of endeavor?  I'm going to the local brew store this
weekend (local being 175 miles away), and maybe they can answer some of these
questions, but I know there are a lot of people out there who can steer me
the right way and probably save me a lot of money in the process.  Any help
in this matter would be appreciated; I'll happily toast eveyone who responds
with the first batch out of my new brewery.

     As far as propane burners go, I searched everywhere locally and could
not find  a decent deal; most places wanted ~$65  for a 30 to 100K BTU
burner.  The best deal I found was in a Cabela's catalog, where they had a
single burner, listed as 136K BTU, for $49.99.  I thought it was a pretty
good deal, but when I called, the lady taking my order said that it was
misprinted, and that it was actually a 175K BTU burner, which was even
better.  So even with S&H, the thing only cost me $56 and some change.  This
is NOT a plug for Cabela's; I haven't even got the thing yet, so I can't even
claim to be a satisfied customer.  But the price was the best I could find in
my neck of the woods, FWIW.  

     TIA to anyone who can help with my troubles (if only all our problems
could be so terrible).

"Aye, aye, Bessy, never brew wi' bad malt upo' Michaelmas day, else you'll
have a poor tap."
     -Mr. Tulliver                             From "The Mill on the Floss"
                                                                by George
Eliot

GubGuy at aol.com

 -Ray Ownby-
  Moses Lake, WA
                    


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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:23:28 -0700
From: Bart Thielges <bart.thielges at Xilinx.COM>
Subject: basmati rice / ftp server

> From: Saylor1/Apple at eworld.com

> A few days back I posted a request for information regarding the proper
> method of preparation of rice for the mash......

I was one of the people who replied to you directly and said that I was
planning to do the same thing.  I've been "lurking" here and not asking
the question directly because I wanted to scan the archives before 
adding to the HBD traffic.

HOWEVER - the ftp server mentioned in the HBD header no longer seems to work.
(ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com).  Does anyone know of an alternate ftpmail
service ?  I'd like to scan the archives for further info, but I have no
direct ftp access and must rely on e-mail servers.

RUMOR : the aroma from basmati rice is due to added jasmine, not a 
characteristic of the rice.  I've asked three Indian born people so
far and the results are 2 to 1 that this rumor is incorrect.  In other
words it seems that the flavor is from the rice itself, not an additive.

Lookin forward to some basmati pale . . . Yum !

Bart
thielges at xilinx.com

Brewing equipment destroyed since last post - 1 popett.

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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 12:14:19 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Thermodynamic Sulphur Chillout (Part 1)

This is # 1 of 2 parts about chilling and why.

* Norman Pyle in HBD 1778 started a thread on "chillers" that I sympathize 
with. The thermodynamic terminology of homebrewers is esoteric and  serves 
little technical purpose.
* Robert Brown in HBD 1780 attempts to coin an awesome nomenclature.
* Lee Allison in HBD 1780 wants to build a plate exchanger, I have a simple 
design.
* Tom Williams (refreshingly) identifies "chillers" as heat exchangers and 
introduces the correct technical description but wants to know why?

I left the Physics department for Literature 20 years ago, confident that the 
mysteries of thermodynamics would never torment me again. Alas, now I must dip 
my big toe in it again.

As I said in a previous post, I am constructing a 70 litre test model of a full 
mini-brewery for assembly in central Russia. To this end I have been pestering 
engineers, beer in hand.

FAQ: Why chill quickly?
 I see two main reasons
  1/ To get from
>>> the Sterile Boiling Phase  
 >>> through the Warm Bacteria-Motel Phase 
 >>> to the Vigorously Fermenting-Protected by Krausen Foam or Airlock Phase
 without unwanted guests (bacteria), so time is important.

  2/ Control of Sulphur flavours. 
The Di-Methyl Sulphide (DMS) flavour threshold in beer is about 30 micro 
grams/litre. DMS is produced from the malt's natural content of  S-Methyl 
Methionine (SMM) and at temperatures greater than 70 C. In "Principals of 
Brewing Science", p 142, Professor George Fix describes the math of this. 
Apparently in the boil all DMS gets carried away with the exiting gases. But 
between boil and fermentation temperature the residual heat continues the 
reaction SMM>>>DMS with the DMS remaining in solution. Thus if cooling is 
prolonged, a pronounced sulphur taste enters the flavour profile.

FAQ- How quickly to chill?

The DMS flavour appears subjective, some like it in the tertiary flavour range 
of about half the flavour threshold of 30 micro grams/litre( ie nothing). Most 
beer seems to be in the  secondary range of 20 to 60 micro grams. Some profiles 
have a higher concentration. How to control it?

In  Mr. George Fix's example, he ignores the Mash and Sparge stages, in which 
the temperature does approach and exeed 70 C. Ignoring this should result in 
less DMS in Wort solution than his model suggests. However he includes cooling 
phase temperatures well below 70 C in his calculations, doing this overstates 
the DMS in solution!? I will use George's model as is, and assume the two 
variables would cancel out. It is just a guide anyway.

Basically, some of the SMM converts to DMS in the boil and is carried away. 
Part of *what is left* is converted to DMS in solution, about 25% of which is 
then broken down in fermentation provided no DMS producing bugs are present.. 
So the final Sulphur flavour is determined by
a/ the SMM fraction /gram of your malt
b/ the grams of malt/litre wort 
c/ the boil time
d/the cooling time
e/ bacteria free fermentation

Using Georgie's examples I have created two tables, the first to calculate the 
concentration of SMM/litre Wort, and the second to calculate the % of this left 
as DMS in solution  *after* fermentation

                              MICRO GRAMS of SMM/ LITRE WORT BEFORE BOIL
        * Grain Bill/Vol*            * Micro Grams SMM/Gram of Malt  (from your 
maltster or guess 6)*
Grams/Litre        Lbs/Gal            3         4         5         6         7 
        8         9
   150                     1.125          450     600      750     900    1050  
 1200   1350
   200                     1.5              600     800     1000   1200   1400  
 1600   1800
   300                     2.25            900     1200   1500   1800   2100   
2400   2700
   400                     3                1200    1600   2000   2400   2800   
3200   3600
   500                     3.75           1500    2000   2500   3000   3500   
4000   4500

This gives the initial concentration of SMM/litre  in your Mash

                       PERCENTAGE OF INITIAL SMM LEFT AS DMS AFTER FERMENTATION
                                              *Chilling Time*  (100 C >> 20 C)
                                 5          10          15          20         
30        60    Minutes
               120           .5%        .9%      1.3%       1.7%      2.4%    
4.2&
*Boil        105           .6%        1.2%    1.7%       2.2%      3.1%    5.5%
Time*       90            .8%        1.5%    2.2%       2.8%      4.1%    7.1%
                75             1%        1.9%    2.8%       3.7%      5.3%    
9.2%

Example:  We have a 6 micro gram/gram SMM content malt, and a grain bill of 
2.25 lbs/gal. We decide to boil for 90 minutes and our Supercyberchiller does 
the trick in 10 minutes.

                               DMS = 1800 x 1.5%= 27 micrograms/litre (Below 
the flavour threshold of 30, in lower secondary range)

If we cool for 15 minutes
                               DMS= 1800 x 2.2% =40 micrograms/litre ( A slight 
malt/sulphur tone-quite agreeable) 

Now we try some high SMM malt at 8 /gram and a high SG brew using 3lb/gal, a 
short boil of 75 minutes and a bathtub chiller which takes 30 minutes.
                               DMS= 3200 x 5.3%=170 micrograms/litre (This 
would clear your sinuses!!)

I am not confident of these figures, could they be checked by Fixey or someone 
more familiar with the labyrinths of chemistry? I will repost new tables if 
corrected.

Next: (Part 2) Heat Exchangers

Charlie         (merino at ozemail.com.au)












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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1794, 07/29/95