FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: BBC Maerzen (Jim Dipalma)
  CWE WINES (Ian Bishop)
  CAPPERS (Ian Bishop)
  HOMEBREW DIGEST #1790 (JU (Ian Bishop)
  HOMEBREW DIGEST #1789 (JU (Ian Bishop)
  HOMEBREW DIGEST #1792 (JU (Ian Bishop)
  Foam (Pierre Jelenc)
  Agar/Sparge manifolds (Robert Brown)
  Wind Malt ("Dan Listermann, Cinci OH")
  Use of SUDS (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  Cloudy blowoff tube/Sanitizing racking canes (Philip Gravel)
  Manifolds/Carbonation/Oxygen and combustion (Philip Gravel)
  Microbrewery addresses (Lenny Garfinkel)
  upgrading equipment (Tim Ihde)
  Sanitation tip (dflagg)
  Wort Aeration (AGNORCB)
  Tansy (Rolland Everitt)
  Themodynamic Chillout (Part 1 Repost) (with tabs-oops) (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  found object (blacksab)
  Heineken Dark clone (Bradley Alan Barber)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 09:45:56 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: BBC Maerzen


Hi All,

  In HBD#1793, Jim Busch writes:

>All of the lagers are BBC are fermented with Weihenstephan (note spelling)
>34/70.  I have no idea what Wyeast calls their version of this.

  Dave Logsdon(sp?) of Wyeast Labs has been cited in Brewing Techniques as
stating that Wyeast 2124 Bohemian is the same as the 34/70 yeast.

>34/70 is
>a very clean, very popular lager yeast.  Ive heard it is one of the most
>commonly used yeasts in brewing, worldwide.

  The thing I like about this yeast is that it does not require extended
lagering to produce a good beer. As Jim mentioned, it ferments very cleanly,
and I've found that just 4-6 weeks at ~34F is an adequate lagering period.
By comparison, other lager yeasts I've used throw a lot of sulfurs in
primary (rotten-egg smell), and require 3-4 months before they're cleaned
up.

********************************************************

  Also in HBD#1793, John MCCafferty asks:

>I have been perusing the King Kooker catalog and am considering a couple of
>models.  Can anyone comment on the following?
>
>#82PK   recessed ring burner with 12" tripod, wind guard, 170K BTU ($57)

  I own one of these models, in general I'm pretty happy with it. Typical
of multijet models, it's quiet, fuel efficient, has a high degree of
adjustability, and enough power at 170K BTU to bring a 10 gallon batch to 
a boil in about 20 minutes.
  The only drawback with this model is that the burner ring is *exactly*
the same diameter as the bottom of a Sankey keg. I would not recommend using
a Sankey keg on this burner as it comes - the keg is very wobbly and unstable.
If you plan to use a Sankey, you'll need to put a piece of stock aluminum
under it, or take some other measure to stabilize the keg.
  There is another style of 1/2 bbl keg that does fit well on this burner,
but I don't know what it's called. I've done 10 gallon boils with this
type of keg on this burner with no problems. These kegs have no side bung, but
they're not straight-sided either. The keg sides taper somewhat on the ends,
which is why this type of keg does fit. Maybe someone who knows what these
are called can jump in here.

         Cheers,
           Jim               dipalma at sky.com

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 00:52:48 EST
From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop)
Subject: CWE WINES


Not strictly related to homebrewed beer (of which I am an avid lover and 
brewer - yum!), but more on the homebrewed wine area.

Is anyone out there currently using CWE Classic kits? I am just in the 
final stages of brewing their Ruby Port Style (1 gallon) and as it is my 
first effort, I would like to have some advice for the final product.

1) I recieved no sachet of wine stabiliser (Potassium Sorbate) with the 
   kit. Instructions indicate that it is required. If I really do need it, 
   can any Australians out there suggest a place to get some quick?

2) How have you found the finished product. I tasted some from a 
   hydrometer test (about 1.000 at this point - suggested F.G. is 0.996-
   0.998) and it seemed OK - will it improve as it ages?

3) Will I have time to brew and mature their Pale Cream Sherry in time 
   for Christmas/New Year?

Thanks a million for any assistance you can offer. Certainly, brewing 
in glass for the first time (1 Gallon Demijohn) has got me seriously 
considering buying a glass carboy for my beer next time I'm near a 
decent homebrewing shop.

- ---
 * RM 1.3 A1824 * **_*\/\/ Y**** ***i*\*D!  S*\/*[]*<* G*****p*\/\/D*r

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 00:52:47 EST
From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop)
Subject: CAPPERS


HH> with the two handles. I recently upgraded to table-top, one-lever
HH> model that allows you to adjust for different size bottles with one
HH> hand. Wish I'd had it years ago! It makes the normal bottling
HH> routine easier, allows me to use beautiful bottles that my old one
HH> couldn't handle (33 cl Fischer), and even has an attachment so I can
HH> use the

I would strongly recommend this as the option to any budding homebrewer. 
I began (like most rookies I imagine) with the hand capper and a hammer 
routine (worked well with someone there to hammer while I held the 
capper - bloody carefully!) but when I moved to my current location, I 
had cause to upgrade to a proper bench capper.

Realistically, they cost about the same as a two-handled (here they do, 
anyway) and are mich more convenient for the work. I basically fill 
about 18 bottles, cap, and repeat. Takes about 2-3 minutes when I'm 
working well  :-)

It has been the best brewing investment I have made to date, and will 
only be beaten when I buy my glass fermenter in a month or 2.

- ---
 * RM 1.3 A1824 * ... Welcome to our Star System. Now Go Home.

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 00:52:50 EST
From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop)
Subject: HOMEBREW DIGEST #1790 (JU


HH> Fermentation started fine and stalled at 1.035.  Dead.  My first
HH> stuck ferment.  I racked to secondary as you did and noticed more
HH> bubbles every day.  But more like from one per five minutes to one
HH> per minute.

HH> The amylase thread was raging on the HBD, but my heart wasn't in
HH> this beer from the start so I dumped it, only the second abandoned
HH> batch of my career. Perhaps if I had been patient, it would have
HH> restarted as yours did.

I have had a couple of stalled fermentation using packet yeast. My 
usual procedure is to rehydrate 3 packets (no fridge space to do proper 
starters) and pitch. Usually I get solid fermentation for 48 hours, a 
24 hour pause, with positive pressure in airlock still, and then a 
resumption for about another 48-96 hours. No off tastes to date, and 
all beer drinkable. Oh to have a place of my own and not shared teacher 
accomodation  :-(

- ---
 * RM 1.3 A1824 * 007 of Borg: Assimilate and Let Die.

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 00:52:49 EST
From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop)
Subject: HOMEBREW DIGEST #1789 (JU


HH> 1. If there were a legal way to do it, if we removed the alcohol
HH> from, say, a not-too-tasty batch, for use in perhaps a lawnmower or
HH> chainsaw, what % pureness would be required in order to run these
HH> machines cleanly? Furthermore, what % could one achieve in a
HH> non-laboratory setting? Finally, what red tape would one require to
HH> do such a thing - or is that a question as far-fetched as will
HH> Windows 95 ever exist?

I can just picture this one. "Lawnmower Lager" - Runs your lawnmower at 
130% of standard efficiency and economy, leaving a magnificent Mercury 
coating on the pistons and a Cinnamon coating on the inlet manifold.

As for Windoze 9x, seems that the programmers have fallen asleep just 
like the rest of us waiting for it. Maybe they had a few homebrews too 
many?

- ---
 * RM 1.3 A1824 * MyProg v.1 * Eval Day 1,094,583,217 * I Support Shareware!

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 95 00:52:51 EST
From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop)
Subject: HOMEBREW DIGEST #1792 (JU


HH> >I am wondering if anyone has input on how to >brew in the heat --
HH> how to get around it, etc.  I don't have an extra >refrigerator for
HH> lagering.  I have heard of those belts that can be >wrapped around
HH> fermenters to keep them at a steady 78 degrees (anybody >have any
HH> results on these buggers?).

I have the worst of both worlds (honest!). In summer, my temperatures 
range from about 78F (Night) to 110F (Day) in Summer, and 30F (Night) to 
86F (Day) in Winter.

In summer, I generally use the "wet coating" effect by covering my 
fermenter with a towel or T-Shirt, and either monitoring it, and 
dampening when drying, or by leaving it in a tub of water in a breezy 
area. Otherwise I sit it in front of my Air-Conditioner as much as 
possible (the smell of fermenting beer in the bedroon keeps me on a 
perpetual high!!!!!)

In winter, I insulate the fermenter as much as I can by warming it up in 
a tub of hottish water, and then drying and wrapping in a very thick 
towel and confining it to the least drafty space I can find. I check 
the temperature daily and warm as required. If it gets <really> cold, I 
run a small heater at night to minimise the chill effect.

- ---
 * RM 1.3 A1824 * 1 = 2, for sufficiently large values of 1.

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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 12:12:14 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Foam

In HBD #1794 Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com> worries about the foam 
caused by aquarium pump aeration:

>Even so, I could only run the aeration pump for a couple minutes at a time
>before the foam expanded to the carboy neck. While the pump was off the
>foam subsided *very* slowly. 
>
>Do any of you "aerators" have any tricks to share that make the
>aeration-pump process easier?

I areate in an open bucket. The airstone is at the end of a rigid wand
connected to a long coiled flexible tubing; the whole assembly is
sanitized in iodophor but no attempt is made to sterile-filter the air. I
can run the pump full blast for about 10 minutes before the foam threatens
to overflow. The foam can then be easily beaten back with the brewing
spoon, (which I keep simmering in water during the whole process). I try
to aerate for a total of one hour; a kitchen timer is absolutely
necessary to avoid overflows.

I drop the beer from the open fermenter to a carboy 24 to 36 hours after 
the start of vigorous fermentation (for normal-gravity ales).

Pierre




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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 13:45:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Brown <rbrown00 at uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Agar/Sparge manifolds


Agar, Patrick stated that agar is 15-20 g per litre which is standard if 
you check a media book.  He was correct in stating that it constitutes 
1.5-2.0% (15/1000), but 1 ounce is 28 grams (not 35) I presume this is a 
typo.  Most Yeast and Mold Agar recipes have about 50-75g/l of agar and 
nutrients.  That means if you use 15-20g (1/2-3/4 oz) agar adding another 
say 55g (2oz) of DME or DME/spent Yeast/glucose should be good.  Even 
easier just add the right amount of agar to some fresh wort during your 
next brewing session.  There is also a tblsp or tsp method listed in an 
FAQ which I didn't have the forethought to take down.:(

Sparge manifolds,  PVC should work but Taking 5 feet of 3/8 Cu tubing 
coiling and slotting  was the easiest for me.  I coiled it 3 times to 
fit in my Gott joined bothe ends together with a brass compression "T" 
and ran another small chunk of tubing through a #2 bung out the existing 
valve hole.  I used my dremel cutoff wheel to make the downward facing slots.
I exited both ends to even flow, for the slots I made them with 
differential spacing. 1/4,1/2, 3/4 inches apart in a seat of the pants 
beer in hand attempt at equalizing flow betwween the furthest and closest 
areas.  I don't Know if it actually helps but it doesn't hurt, and I got 
to feel very high-tech like.:) explanatory ASCII:

I  I  I  I  I  I I I I I I IIIIIIIIIIIIIII I I I I I I I I  I  I  I  I  I

       -Picture 5 feet in three coils with the ends joined to an exiting "T"
	sitting in the bottom of my Gott.
I also cut the coils in three chunks and connected it back with siphon 
tubing to aid in any possible husk removal/ cleaning.  
It works well, was easy to assemble, comes apart for cleaning, and cost 
almost nothing.:)  As for using a hacksaw, use a good blade as the 
numerous slots will make for a lot of sawing if you arent using power tools.

Just my thoughts					Rob


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Date: 29 Jul 95 15:56:46 EDT
From: "Dan Listermann, Cinci OH" <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Wind Malt

Eric Miller discussed wind malt and asked  if anyone has had experience with it.
I used to malt and hope to be able to get back into it this winter.  I hadn't
developed a good kilning method at the time ( hadn't worked out an air flow
system in my oven yet) so the kilning was very uneven.  I read in Declerck about
wind malt so I gave it a try.  I just sat my screen box on top of two box fans
and blocked the two other sides with cardboard.  The fans sucked air through the
green malt and dried it in two or three days.  I then put it in a pot in the
oven for a day longer at about 100'F to finish it off.  

I just made ales with it.  They were fine, but my extraction was nothing to brag
about.

As for malting in general, don't do it for the money saved - it is not worth the
effert.  But I found it to be an interesting challange.  I would like to try to
make real brown malt by roasting it over a hardwood fire to see how the old
porters tasted.

Dan Listermann


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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 16:17:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net>
Subject: Use of SUDS

Regarding the use of SUDS 4.0:

I've developed several recipes, some of which I need to alter.  I'd
like to keep the old recipe intact for awhile, as I tweak the same
basic ingredients/process.
 
Currently I've just built a whole new recipe, using the same name
but adding a version number.  This embarassingly primitive technique
has two problems: I have to rebuild the new recipe from scratch (the
biggest problem), and I'm proliferating recipes in the database (this
makes browsing a bit of a pain).

The first problem could be solved if there was a way to clone an
existing recipe (copy it as an entity) to a new one, then tweak the
copy.  I see no solution with SUDS for the second problem.  With a
relational database, my process might be implemented with a record
having recipe-name and version-number as two attributes.  Several
such records would then have the same "recipe-name", and all recipe
versions of the same basic recipe-name could then be selected.

Second issue is one of keeping notes on a given recipe.  Other than
using the NOTES feature, how can one tie competition results to
a given recipe?  Again, relationally, I'd need a COMPETITION table
to hold data on a competition, and a COMPETITION-RESULTS table to
hold the results of a given competiton for a given entry.  I see no
way to implement this with SUDS.  Any ideas appreciated: how do YOU
track the performance of a given batch of beer?

KRF Colorado Springs


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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 21:40 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Cloudy blowoff tube/Sanitizing racking canes

===> Mike Spinelli asks about blowoff hoses:

>Does anybody know how to clear up the cloudiness in my 1" blowoff hoses.
>
>Is it caused from soaking them in Bleach solution?

It is caused by soaking in a water solution.  Water is absorbed by
the plastic tubing and it turns cloudy.  If you let the tubing sit
especially in a warm place, the water will desorb and the tubing
will clear up.

===> Keith Frank provides a tip for sanitizing racking canes:

>I shared this at recent club meeting and based on the positive 
>response decided to post.  When sanitizing my racking cane I put 
>it in a longer piece of 2" PVC pipe with a PVC cap glued on the 
>bottom.  It will stand on its own.  Fill with iodophor and just 
>pull out when needed.  I cut most of the bend off my plastic 
>racking cane so it would fit inside.  It's also a handy 
>container to stuff your siphon hose in, but that takes a little 
>cramming.  

A similar technique that works well for me is to use a wall
papering tray.  It's that cheap thing you by at a hardware or
paint store that you put rolled up, pre-pasted wallpaper in to wet
it before applying it to the wall.  The tray is about 6"x6"x36".
I put my (bleach based) sanitizing solution in it and then
my racking canes and tubing.  It comfortably hold all of them.
I imagine this would work for Iodophor sanitizers also.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel   Lisle, Illinois               pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 95 22:38 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Manifolds/Carbonation/Oxygen and combustion

===> Glen Baldridge asks about manifold setups:

>     1) I am looking for help to design a slotted PVC manifold for a Gott 
>     type mash/lauter system.  For those who have had success, what type of 
>     geometric design are you using?  What are you using to cut the slots 
>     (is a hacksaw OK ?) Where are the slots cut (top/bottom/sides), how 
>     deep are they and how far apart are they spaced?

I made a manifold for a 10 gal Gott cooler out of 1/2" copper pipe.
Mine is octagonal to go around the perimeter of the perimiter of the 
cooler with two cross pieces.  One is also slotted and the other has
the take off to the drain.  I cut the slots half way through the pipe
every 1/2" on 45^ angles.  Seems to work fine for me.

===> Tim Membrino asks about flat beer:

>I recently brewed an extract Porter recipe with specialty grains
>suggested by my local homebrew store owner.  I had an O.G. of 1.047
>and after about a 12 days got a stable F.G. of 1.006.  I bottled
>with the standard 3/4 cup of corn sugar (this was a 5 gal. batch)
>and waited patiently for 2 weeks.
>
>I tasted the first bottles 16 days after bottling and found to my
>disappointment that the beer is VERY flat.  NO head.  Only a small
>amount of "fizzy-noise" on opening.  Obviously I didn't get the
>carbonation I wanted.  The beer tastes great...just flat.

I'd give it at least a couple more weeks before getting concerned.
Heavier beers such as porters and stouts generally take longer to
carbonate than ligher beers such as ales or weizens.

==> Dion Hollenbeck comments about oil in oxygen tanks:
 
>>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
>
>Jim> While I agree that O2 under pressure is sanitary, the fact that I
>Jim> use welding gas could lead to some residule oils/particulate
>Jim> matter.
>
>I have to disagree with this statement about residual oils.  One of
>the "prime directives" about welding is that you never, never, never
>use any oil near or in an oxygen regulator.  This is causing a
>disaster waiting to happen, putting something flammable in the
>presence of pure oxygen.

Dion is right.  Pure oxygen is very danger especially in the
presence of something combustible.

On a related note, Dave Berry, the nationally syndicated humor
writer, recently wrote piece on some people at Purdue University
who used liquid oxygen to start a charcoal grill.  Berry described
how charcoal is normally as easy to start as a pile of rocks.
However, with liquid oxygen, the Purdue folks were able to consume
30 lb of charcoal in less than 5 seconds.  It also consumed the
grill.  There's a Web page with pictures describing this "experiment".
Unfortunately, I don't have the URL handy.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel   Lisle, Illinois               pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 10:59:31 +0300 (IDT)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: Microbrewery addresses 


I'll be visiting the US in two weeks and would like to visit these
breweries in order to get a feel for brewery setups.These breweries are 
not in the 1994 Brewer's Resource Directory.Could anyone send me 
addresses, telephone/fax numbers, and the name of a contact person
(preferably brewmaster) at any of these breweries?Thanks.

Lenny Garfinkel


Rockford Brewing Co., Wilmington, DE
G. Heileman Brewing Co., Baltimore, MD
Brimstone Brewing Co., Baltimore, MD
Fordham Brewing Co./Ramshead Tavern, Annapolis, MD
Sisson's/South Baltimore Brewing Co., Baltimore, MD
Ship Inn, Milford, NJ
Triumph Brewing Co., Princeton, NJ
Independence Brewing Co., Philadelphia, PA
Whitetail Brewing Co., York, PA
Yards Brewing Co., Philadelphia, PA
Patomac River Brewing Co, Chantilly, VA


_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel   | Internet:  lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General  | Office Phone: 972-8-381256     
Kiryat Weizmann         | Home Phone:   972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel         | FAX:          972-8-409041
- -----------------------------------------------------------------




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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:45:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: tim at novell.com (Tim Ihde)
Subject: upgrading equipment

Hi John --

I'm looking at moving up to a keg on propane boiler setup myself, so
I thought I'd let you know the direction I was moving in.

I've got several brew-buddies here that either use this equipment or
are preparing to.  Two of them now mash in coolers, and I think they
use simple infusions almost exclusively.  I've only done partial
mashes to date, using the same pot-in-the-oven method you describe.
I'm planning on moving to a cooler type setup.

At the moment I'm not thinking about mashing in the keg/boiler.  I
don't know anyone personally who does this, although there are
numerous posts in the HBD archives talking about it.  You can even
get a special EasyMasher(TM) built to fit inside the Sabco keg.

There is a shop near me that sells the Sabco kegs (Hop and Vine in
Morristown, NJ), so I've looked them over pretty carefully and I like
what I see.  To answer your questions:

    -	The one I was looking at had a standard size ball valve on
	the outside, and it came with a barbed connector for 3/8" hose.

    -	It comes with an enamel-on-steel type lid.

    -	I measured the diameter as 15 3/4" at the bottom.

    -	It isn't light empty.  I think if filled with 10 gallons
	I'd need some extra hands to move it very far.  With 5
	I can probably do it myself (cautiously!)

The diameter of the thing combined with the weight has me concerned
about the burners I was looking at, in particular the high ones like
83PK.  Right now I'm considering seriously the 100K BTU burner that
William's is selling, since it looks much sturdier than the tall fish
cookers I've seen plus it has adjustable legs so you can change the
height from 11" to 23" high.  This burner has a square top that has
an 18" diagonal (I had them measure it for me) so it should hold the
keg securely.

Definitely go for serving via the corny kegs . . . best move I ever
made.

	tim

- -- 
Tim J. Ihde                                  | Novell Unix Systems Group
tim at novell.com                (201) 443-5571 | ISV Engineering
isv-support at novell.com        (201) 443-5033 | Florham Park, New Jersey

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 10:28:08 -0400
From: dflagg at agate.net
Subject: Sanitation tip

In HBD #1791, Bruce DeBolt writes about sanitizing racking canes...

I went over to my local hardware store and purchased a plastic window-
type flower box (called an "Estate Box"). It is about 28" long and 5"
deep and is perfect for sanitizing racking canes and all the other
small items needed for a clean mash/boil/brew.  The only thing I 
don't put in is my racking hose.  I use a small plastic bucket for
this, coiling the hose around inside the bucket.
*******************

HBD#1791, Jim Grady writes about bleach, etc. in the septic tank...

The most I ever dump into my septic system is when I soak my carboy
after a primary ferment. Then I use a cup or so of bleach, partly for
it's cleaning properties.  Now, my septic system is a 1000 gallon tank.
I also know it is full of liquid all the time.  My cup of liquid bleach
will not have that much of an effect on that 1000 gallons.  Oh, I know
the bleach will be concentrated by the inlet, but the billions of 
nasties living in the other 990 gallons will quickly make up for those
killed by the inlet pipe.

I have been brewing for about 4 years, dumping copious quantities of
bleach into my system all that time, with no ill effects.

************************************************************
Doug Flagg                  |  "A Homebrew a day...
dflagg at orono.sdi.agate.net  |   Keeps the Worries away!"
************************************************************

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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 13:58:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: AGNORCB at miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Subject: Wort Aeration


Just another question in regard to the wort aeration thread.

I recall reading a post in the HBD from a few months back suggesting the use of
common drug store cotton to filter the air pumped through an aquarium pump
style wort aerator.  What was the consensus on using this technique?  Is this a
"clean" way to oxygenate wort?  TIA

Craig Agnor
agnorcb at muohio.edu


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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 17:54:40 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: Tansy



Charlie Papazian mentions in one of his books that before hops
gained it's current popularity with brewers, other herbs were
used.  He mentions several of these, including tansy.  I happen
to have a patch of tansy growing just under my kitchen window.
Has anyone on the list used tansy?

Rolland Everitt


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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 08:30:22 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Themodynamic Chillout (Part 1 Repost) (with tabs-oops)

To:      Homebrew Digest -- INTERNET  at  OZ-EMAIL 
{homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com}
From:    Charlie
Date:    Thursday, July 27, 1995 07:20 AM
Subject: Thermodynamic Sulphur Chillout (Part 1)
- ------------------------------- Message Text -------------------------------


This is # 1 of 2 parts about chilling and why. The tables came through as 
gibberish in the last post. I'm trying again.

* Norman Pyle in HBD 1778 started a thread on "chillers" that I sympathize 
with. The
thermodynamic terminology of homebrewers is esoteric and  serves little 
technical
purpose.
* Robert Brown in HBD 1780 attempts to coin an awesome nomenclature.
* Lee Allison in HBD 1780 wants to build a plate exchanger, I have a simple 
design.
* Tom Williams (refreshingly) identifies "chillers" as heat exchangers and 
introduces
the correct technical description but wants to know why?

I left the Physics department for Literature 20 years ago, confident that the 
mysteries of
thermodynamics would never torment me again. Alas, now I must dip my big toe in 
it
again.

As I said in a previous post, I am constructing a 70 litre test model of a full 
mini-
brewery for assembly in central Russia. To this end I have been pestering 
engineers,
beer in hand.

FAQ: Why chill quickly?
 I see two main reasons
  1/ To get from
>>> the Sterile Boiling Phase  
 >>> through the Warm Bacteria-Motel Phase 
 >>> to the Vigorously Fermenting-Protected by Krausen Foam or Airlock Phase
 without unwanted guests (bacteria), so time is important.

  2/ Control of Sulphur flavours. 
The Di-Methyl Sulphide (DMS) flavour threshold in beer is about 30 micro 
grams/litre.
DMS is produced from the malt's natural content of  S-Methyl Methionine (SMM) 
and
at temperatures greater than 70 C. In "Principals of Brewing Science", p 142, 
Professor
George Fix describes the math of this. Apparently in the boil all DMS gets 
carried away
with the exiting gases. But between boil and fermentation temperature the 
residual heat
continues the reaction SMM>>>DMS with the DMS remaining in solution. Thus if
cooling is prolonged, a pronounced sulphur taste enters the flavour profile.

FAQ- How quickly to chill?

The DMS flavour appears subjective, some like it in the tertiary flavour range 
of about
half the flavour threshold of 30 micro grams/litre( ie nothing). Most beer 
seems to be in
the  secondary range of 20 to 60 micro grams. Some profiles have a higher
concentration. How to control it?

In  Mr. George Fix's example, he ignores the Mash and Sparge stages, in which 
the
temperature does approach and exeed 70 C. Ignoring this should result in less 
DMS in
Wort solution than his model suggests. However he includes cooling phase
temperatures well below 70 C in his calculations, doing this overstates the DMS 
in
solution!? I will use George's model as is, and assume the two variables would 
cancel
out. It is just a guide anyway.

Basically, some of the SMM converts to DMS in the boil and is carried away. 
Part of
*what is left* is converted to DMS in solution, about 25% of which is then 
broken
down in fermentation provided no DMS producing bugs are present.. So the final
Sulphur flavour is determined by
a/ the SMM fraction /gram of your malt
b/ the grams of malt/litre wort 
c/ the boil time
d/the cooling time
e/ bacteria free fermentation

Using Georgie's examples I have created two tables, the first to calculate the
concentration of SMM/litre Wort, and the second to calculate the % of this left 
as
DMS in solution  *after* fermentation

		MICRO GRAMS of SMM/ LITRE WORT BEFORE BOIL
	* Grain Bill/Vol*	* Micro Grams SMM/Gram of Malt  (from your
maltster or guess 6)*
Grams/LitreL	Lbs/Gal	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
150		1.125		450	600	750	900	1050	1200	1350
200		1.5		600	800	1000	1200	1400	1600	1800
300		2.25		900	1200	1500	1800	2100	2400	2700
400		3		1200	1600	2000	2400	2800	3200	3600
500		3.75		1500	2000	2500	3000	3500	4000	4500

This gives the initial concentration of SMM/litre  in your Mash

		PERCENTAGE OF INITIAL SMM LEFT AS DMS AFTER
FERMENTATION
		*Chilling Time*  (100 C >> 20 C)
		5	10	15	20	30	60	Minutes
	120	0.5%	0.9%	1.3%	1.7%	2.4%	4.2%
*Boil	105	0.6%	1.2%	1.7%	2.2%	3.1%	5.5%
Time*	90	0.8%	1.5%	2.2%	2.8%	4.1%	7.1%
	75	1%	1.9%	2.8%	3.7%	5.3%	9.2%

Example:  We have a 6 micro gram/gram SMM content malt, and a grain bill of 2.25
lbs/gal. We decide to boil for 90 minutes and our Supercyberchiller does the 
trick in 10
minutes.

		DMS = 1800 x 1.5%= 27 micrograms/litre (Below the flavour threshold
of 30, in lower secondary range)

If we cool for 15 minutes
		DMS= 1800 x 2.2% =40 micrograms/litre ( A slight malt/sulphur tone-
quite agreeable) 

Now we try some high SMM malt at 8 /gram and a high SG brew using 3lb/gal, a 
short
boil of 75 minutes and a bathtub chiller which takes 30 minutes.
		DMS= 3200 x 5.3%=170 micrograms/litre (This would clear your
sinuses!!)

I am not confident of these figures, could they be checked by Fixey or someone 
more
familiar with the labyrinths of chemistry? I will repost new tables if 
corrected, I would appreciate feedback on .

Next: (Part 2) Heat Exchangers

Charlie         (merino at ozemail.com.au)


















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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 00:21:28 -0500
From: blacksab at siu.edu
Subject: found object

Hi to all! Am new to the Digest.

Found an interesting piece of equipment at a scrap metal dealer that I'd
like to eventually use as a mash tun: It's rated at 40-gallons, SS, approx.
2.5 ft in diameter, with a double-jacketed hemispherical bottom designed to
be heated with steam (rated at 40-psi/300-degF). I saw the exact same thing
in Point Judith, RI where I think it was used to boil lobsters. It came off
a SS table assembly. It also has a seperate SS lid that hinged to the table.

There's a pretty close approximation of it in the MAAS BREWING SYSTEMS ad
(no connection:) on page 9 of the Mar/Apr '95 BT. There, it's used as a
boiling kettle though.

I have 2 questions:

1. How far down can a SS false bottom be placed before extract efficiency is
compromised, i.e, does it need to be placed at the widest diameter, or can
it be placed nearer the bottom? This question relates to: a) the volume of
space under the false bottom; and b) the effect that a false bottom with a
diameter smaller than the diameter of the top of the grain-bed will have on
lautering efficiency.

2. And, is there any problem with heating the bottom of the vessel directly,
using the double-jacket first as a heat buffer, and then to recirculate hot
water through the outter jacket during the mash to maintain an even temperature.

I also plan to make a RIMS out of it, so would a large volume under the
false bottom even make any difference?

                --TIA, Harlan Bauer


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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 01:02:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bradley Alan Barber <bbarber at tenet.edu>
Subject: Heineken Dark clone

Please E-mail me should you have an Heineken Dark, all extract clone recipe.

TIA

Fr. Bradley A.M. Barber
bbarber at tenet.edu
ppwf22a at prodigy.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1795, 07/31/95