FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  digest/thermometers ("Bummer, Paul")
  Summary of Thermometer responses (Dave Draper)
  1 1/2" false bottom (MATTD)
  A Chilling Night At The Speedway ("Pat Babcock")
  Kolsch! ("Richard Scotty")
  Re:  Harvested Yeast "Shelf Life" (Eric Palmer)
  Style Descriptions (Eric Palmer)
  RTP Yeast (Rolland Everitt)
  Converting Kegs ("Richard J. Smith")
  Re: Chilling (TomF775202)
  pump info. request (Rich Lenihan)
  esters, phenols, etc. (Eric Palmer)
  Schlitz poster (Hadley Killough )
  Hunter Mod & R Gardner (Kyle R Roberson)
  re: AA Determination (Glenn Tinseth)
  fermentation temperature and other first-brew questions ("Alex R.N. Wetmore")
  Burner conversion (Robert Brown)
  Sparging Techniques (Nir Navot)
  Heaters and coolers (Ulick Stafford)
  questions (Edwardine J Lambert)
  counter pressure bottling foam ("Sharon A. Ritter")
  opaque hefeweizen (Mark T)
  My thermometer is fixed! / Mt Hood hops (Dave Draper)
  Aeration / Temps / Free Refrigerator (XDCHRISTIAN)
  Separated thermometer column (Philip Gravel)
  Burner conversion (Philip Gravel)
  All-Wheat Beer Response (Nicholas A. Franke)



******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 08:00:21 EST
From: "Bummer, Paul" <bummerp at uklans.uky.edu>
Subject: digest/thermometers


          1.  I think that Rob Gardner is owed a harty thanks from all
          of us for his tireless efforts to manage this digest.  I
          raise my mug and give him a toast!

          2.  Dave Draper asked about spearated thermometers.
          a.  There is a compression of the alcohol vapor in the gap
          between the two regions of liquid.  This would
          make for inaccurate temperature extrapolations in an
          otherwise highly accurate device.  If the gap is small, the
          temperature error by adding the readings of the two parts
          of the column and subtracting out the "contribution" of
          the gap is probably small and within brewing tolerances.

          b.  Dave mentioned about putting the device in boiling water
          to attempt to re-establish a continuous column.  I would try
          rather to put the thermometer in the freezer to contract the
          column of fluid back into the bulb.  It may be best to
          attempt tokeep the device in the vertical position in
          the freezer.  Then, remove from the freezer and return back
          to room temperature.  The fluid should re-enter the column
          in a continuous fashion.  Note: Do not try to hasten the
          movement back up the tube by heating the device directly out
          of the freezer.  One of my students tried that once with a
          mercury thermometer and we spent an afternoon chasing
          mercury balls all around the laboratory.

          Paul M. Bummer, Ph.D.
          College of Pharmacy
          University of Kentucky

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 09:02:43 +1000
From: david.draper at mq.edu.au (Dave Draper)
Subject: Summary of Thermometer responses

Dear Friends, maybe it's because there were only a couple posts in #1814,
the first post-apocalyptic HBD, but I had 17 responses (!!!) to my query
about my ailing thermometer.  Thank you very much, all--please forgive me
that I do not thank you by individual email.

The strong consensus is that my intuition, that the main mass of liquid
would not be affected by the presence of absence of something elswhere in
the column, is wrong.  Instead, the real temperature is going to be
something else, and it even appears that it may be wildly off.  This is
because the rates of thermal expansion of the large air bubble in my 'meter
and of the liquid itself may be quite different.  So if this happens to you,
something must be done--you can't just ignore it.

The recommended solutions: either heat or cool the thing until all the
liquid rejoins, or centrifuge (either manually, tied to a string and
whirling around your head--what a spectacle!--or with the usual machine).  I
am going to try the cooling approach first, because it seems safer, and the
reservoir on the top of my 'meter is encased in a softish plastic, so I
can't observe what might happen during heating.  My thermometer is in the
freezer as I type, but so far no joy--there is still a huge gap.  Next
cooling step is a ice bath with either salt water or alcohol.  Will try both
as necessary.  If these don't work, I will try the heating approach next
(don't have access to a large enough centrifuge); in any event, I'll report
back on the outcome.

Thanks again to all, Dave in Sydney
"Cross your fingers and wait it out." ---A. J. deLange
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au  Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
                ...I'm not from here, I just live here...


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 09:23:20 -0600 (MDT)
From: MATTD at UWYO.EDU
Subject: 1 1/2" false bottom

I've got a 21 gallon stainless steel pot that is 23" in diameter with a hole
on the bottom near the edge with a 3" threaded pipe welded to it.  I've
already got a ball valve and the necessary reducer but I was wondering about
a false bottom.  If I insert a sink strainer (with some grinding to make it
smaller) into the 1 1/2" hole on the bottom will I get a decent extraction 
efficiency or should I go to a larger false bottom that just sits over the 
hole?  Thanks for any advice you can give.
Private e-mail is fine.
Matt Dickey
Mattd at uwyo.edu

Return to table of contents


Date:          Fri, 25 Aug 1995 23:37:40 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject:       A Chilling Night At The Speedway


This was rejected by the line length bot (and we thought he died with 
hpfcmi... This kinda invalidates the 'Hope this generates an issue of 
the HBD", but thought the article might still be of interest...

Last Sunday, I ran a trial pitting a 20' x 3/8" x 3/4" counter-flow 
chiller (CF) against a 50' x 1/2" immersion chiller (IM).  In the 
hopes that it generates an issue of the HBD (withdrawal pains!),  I'm 
sharing the results with the world...

Trial Description: Prior to beginning this trial , all thermometers 
were calibrated using the crushed-ice-in-water method. The calibrated 
thermometers were then used to verify correlation of the temperature 
read water directly in the hot liquor to the temperature read in the 
temperature well.  The thermometers agreed within their accuracy. 
This was done with separate thermometers as well as with singular 
thermometers to negate method of temperature measurement as a 
perturbation to this experiment. 

Two 'identical'* five gallon batches of nutbrown ale were prepared 
from extract, each in its own kettle.  The immersion chiller was 
dropped in the pot and the counter flow was set to recirculate 
boiling wort during the final 15 minutes of  the boil (sanitation).  
* Counterflow batch suffered a boil-over. Less than a pint was lost.  


Water was 'Y'ed from a single source.  Water input temperature was 
measured to be 57 F.  This measurement was repeated several times 
prior to running the chillers to ensure its stability. 

At flame out, the temperature of at each kettle was recorded, and the 
temperature of the input water was reverified. Water flow was started 
at each chiller by means of a single valve. 

The counterflow was initially set to return wort to the brew kettle 
in order to cool its coils following the boiling wort sanitation 
recirc.  As soon as the water outflow from the counter flow chiller 
was cool to the touch, (this time was roughly 30 seconds) the 
aeration cane assembly was a ttached and affixed to the waiting 
fermenter.  Flow through the aeration cane was slowed to provide 
maximum air draw. (Slow fill rate.) 

The immersion chiller immediately began chilling wort. The kettle 
pump was set to gently recirculate wort over the coils under the 
liquid level, and the wort was stirred regularly.  The kettle 
remained covered most of the time to avoid the introduction of 
airborne contaminants. 

Samples for temperature checks taken in a heavy plastic 
'beaker-on-a-stick'. Temperature readings were taken quickly to avoid 
heat loss or gain at surface (beaker thickness insulates side and 
bottom).  Temperature/SG samples were not aerated.

Note: To keep the flow rate of water through the immersion chiller 
constant, water continued to  run through the counterflow chiller 
after it had completed chilling of its batch. 

DATA:								
Temperature Corrected OG:   CF: 1.043  IM: 1.038
Expected:	6.16lbs x 40 / 5 gal = 1.04928
(Brewer's Workshop predicted  1.044)			
Boil Volume: 7gal	Final Volume: 5 gal

Time   Batch                              Water Input   CF Water Out  
mins    CF          Immersion       Temp *F        Temp *F
 0         212         212                   57                  57
 3           68         180                   57                  68
12          68           90                   57                  68
18          68           80                   57                  68
24          68           75                   57                  68
29          68           75                   57                  68
34          --            74                   57                  57
35          --            74                   57                  57
71          --            74                   57                  57

(Did not measure outlet water temperature of IM. Would have been of  
interest, but was a little 'busy' as it was...)

At t=35 minutes, immersion chilled batch showed no temperature change 
in 6 minutes.  Transfer through aeration can was begun and two 
additional checks were made on the wort temp. 74F was read each time. 
The additional 36 minutes put the CF and IM chillers on "even 
footing" since wort was cooled and aerated upon completion with 
counterflow.  

The CF chiller was cleaned by circulating clean water through  it.  
IM chiller required additional manual  cleaning to clear break 
material from on and  between the coils.  

Counterflow pumped break material directly to fermenter as a matter 
of course.  Little was formed.  Immersion chiller pumped 1.25 inches 
of break material into fermenter.  Break material  clogged 50% of  
the aeration holes and developed back-pressure at outlet resulting in 
a wort sprinkler. Final fill was done without aeration. (Not a 
concern if you do not have a central siphon. Or brew in the dark. =)  

Immersion-chilled sample at high kraeusen within 11 hours. Counter 
flow-chilled sample in active ferment; not yet at high kraeusen. 
(Same type/brand and quantity of yeast pitched in each: 2 sachets 
pitched dry; CF-chilled sample pitched 30 minutes prior to 
immersion-chilled sample.)   

Both fermenting strong at 20.5 hours. Very turbid. Large solids (cold 
break) apparent in currents set up by fermentation.  By 25 hours, 
kraeusen begins to subside.  Blow-off  tubes clear of foam.  
Approximately 1/2 gallon of  beer in blow off jar. (Typical for 
recipe.) 

Particulars:			
Immersion chiller design: 50' - 1/2" ID copper tubing. Cooling water 
enters coil at the top;  exits at bottom. Home-made.  

Counter flow chiller design:   20' - 3/8" ID copper tubing inside 
3/4" ID flexible PVC hose (Qest). Wort flow counters water flow. 
Home-made. 

Brewing system:  1/2 barrel kettles ala pico brewing systems. 
Fired by Kajun Cookers (Rocket Tubes). March Pumps. Drilled racking 
cane through orange carboy cap (aeration system). 

Special thanks to The Fermental Order Of Renaissance Draughtsmen 
(F.O.R.D.) brew club for both inspiring the trial, and for inviting 
me to present it at the August meeting.  And kudos to Spencer Thomas 
of the Ann Arbor Brewers' Guild (A.A.B.G.) who should soon be 
reporting a more in-depth analysis to this august community...

Comments, corrections, and suggestions welcome!  No flames, though - 
those Cajun Cookers are hot enough!

"Drink all you want - I'll brew more!"

Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock    | "Yup, Kit's (Anderson) a brewer...
President, Brew-Master      |  What he isn't is a woman." - Dan Hall
and Chief Taste-Tester      | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point 
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery |  at the end of your day as every sentence 
pbabcock at oeonline.com       |  requires proper punctuation." -PGB
SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758

Return to table of contents


Date: 25 Aug 1995 08:16:17 -0700
From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com>
Subject: Kolsch!

While in New Mexico, I visited several Micros.  At a place called Assets in
Albuquerque (no affiliation) I had their Kolsch.  This was a truly impressive
ale, but I have nothing to compare it to as far as its trueness to style.

Does anyone know of a generally available Kolsch that is indicative of the
style?  I'd like to attempt to brew a Kolsch - I've seen that Wyeast has a
Kolsch culture available.  If you have experience with this style, I'd like
gather information about grain bills, etc.  Private e-mail is fine and I'll
post a summary if general interest is shown.

BTW, Assets has fine beers and great food.  I highly recommend it if you're
ever in Albuquerque.

TIA,
Rich Scotty (to the tune of "Money For Nothing" - I want my, I want my, I
want my HBD...)

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 22:55:34 PDT
From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: Re:  Harvested Yeast "Shelf Life"

In HBD #1813, Tim Membrino (membrino at nadc.nadc.navy.mil) writes:

"What's the expiration date for my yeast?"

Since I've only just sampled the 1st bottle of my 3rd batch, I'm no expert
either but just having returned from a week under the pines on the west
shore of Lake Tahoe where, among other things,I spent some time with my
feet up on a picnic bench, a not-so-amber* pale ale in hand, reading the
yeast.faq: 

YEAST INFORMATION AND TECHNIQUE RESOURCE       May 26, 1994
Edited, compiled, annotated and introduced by Patrick Weix <weix at netcom.com>

and, a mighty thesis it is.  If it's not covered here, it doesn't need to
be known.

According to Mr. Weix, the shelf life of home cultured yeast is 3-4 months.

Suggest anyone interested in this branch of home brewing locate and read
this rather lengthy treatise. If for no other reason, its excellent
synopsis of approximately 417 million commericial yeasts with their
characteristics and, in come cases, who uses what. For example, I learned
that Sierra Nevada uses Wyeast 1056 aka American/Chico Ale Yeast.

Don't have Netscape up at the moment and don't remember the path, but the
FAQs can be located via the Beer Page at
http://www.umich.edu/~spencer/beer/

Eric

*but that's another story for another HBD edition.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 23:02:45 PDT
From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: Style Descriptions

In  HBD #1813, Mark Montminy <markm at dev.cdx.mot.com> inquires about how to
learn about different styles.

Get a copy of Zymergy* Vol. 14. No. 4, Special 1991 (every year there is a
"special topic" edition). It has an outstanding review of over 60 styles
written by experts in the given style. Included are commercial examples
where available.  It's perfect "starter information".  My copy is seriously
"dog eared".

Back issues are often available at your local brew shop. Or, try calling
(303) 447-0816 to order one with your Visa card.

*Published 5 times per year by American Homebrewers Assoc.

Eric


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 07:51:43 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: RTP Yeast



Jim Grady asked about RTP (Ready to Pitch) liquid yeast.  I have
very little basis for comparison, but I used RTP London Ale
yeast in my first batch and got a vigorous fermentation.  All I
had to do was take the vial out of the fridge and shake it up a
bit and pitch it.  No complaints


Return to table of contents


Date: 26 Aug 95 07:55:50 EDT
From: "Richard J. Smith" <72154.516 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Converting Kegs

Larry asks in HB1812:

>I have recently come across two kegs that I would like to convert to start
>to build a tier system for the eventual plunge into all grain brewing.  I am
>concerned as to whether they are SS or not... 

If you have Coor's Kegs, slightly wider in the middle than top or bottom, then
yes, they 
are stainless steel.  I have 2 with welded coupling's in them and they work
great.
I think it says "stainless steel" somewhere on the keg; look hard. It may have
been on 
the top before I cut it out and threw it away or on the bottom/side now rubbed
off from 
all the polishing I did, or blasted off by my popane burner.  The steel on these
is slightly
thicker than on the Budweiser half barrel kegs. I use the Coors kegs for Boiler
and 
Hot water Tank.  BTW I found them in a metal scrap yard; never had as much fun 
wallowing through piles of stainless steel.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 12:29:32 -0400
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Chilling

Lots of talk on chilling lately. Check out my article about chillers in Brew
Your Own Magazine.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 14:06:59 -0400
From: rich at lenihan.iii.net (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: pump info. request

A while back I requested recommendations for propane burners. Well, I had
such good success with that (25 replies) that I'm going to try my luck
again. I need a high-temp pump to complete my brewing system. It doesn't
have to be self-priming (although that would be nice) but it should have
enough force to move hot water and/or wort to a height of 8 feet. It should
also be food-grade as well as easy to clean and operate. Finally, it should
introduce little or no air into the liquid being moved. I've heard about the
March pumps, but I don't have specific model #'s. Any other pumps that fall
into a home-brewer's budget would be acceptable as well. I would also
appreciate any tips you might have regarding set-up, tubing, connectors, etc.

Please reply via email. As usual, I will summarize and re-post if there's
any interest. Thanks...

 -Rich 

rich at lenihan.iii.net



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 95 12:31:07 PDT
From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: esters, phenols, etc.

With all this talk about pitching and fermentation temps. and associated
production of nasty esters and phenols, can someone please fill me in on
what they taste like and why they are "bad", except in Belgin ales in which
case they are "good".  Guess I'll know them when I see them, but so far
(only 2 batches), I haven't seen any (knock, knock).  Did have a Chimay the
other day so I guess I encountered some there but wasn't sure what I was
looking for. 

Thanks,

Eric


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 13:55:00 -0700
From: hwkillo at ix.netcom.com (Hadley Killough )
Subject: Schlitz poster

Quick question,
Does anyone know how to get a poster of the World War II bomber that 
graces Schlitz cases?  I really do hate Schlitz beer, however I love 
beer memorabilia and would love to get a copy of this poster for my 
small collection - Thanks in advance!

 - Lee Killough

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 16:27:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson at beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Subject: Hunter Mod & R Gardner

Second try...

Apologies to Richard Gardner who wrote to me to ask for
the Hunter Airstat modification(temp-shift). I don't have it on-line
and my mailer messed up my reply to him and overwrote his
address field. Maybe someone would like to post the 
appropriate reference or repost the ascii schematic?

Kyle



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 16:54:36 -0700
From: gtinseth at teleport.com (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: re: AA Determination

Some of the ASBC methods are available from the Hop Page:

<http://www.teleport.com/~gtinseth/>

or by anonymous ftp:

<ftp://ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/gtinseth/BrewCalc/>

Glenn



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 22:40:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" <alexw+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: fermentation temperature and other first-brew questions

A friend and I are about to brew our first batch of beer and are 
worried about our fermentation temperature.  The apartment where we
are brewing this beer is typically in the lower to mid 80's (because
it has no air conditioning or a cellar that we can use).  Is there a
good way to keep the temperature of the fermenting beer closer to
the lower 70's that the yeast will enjoy?  

Also, another question.  For our first beer we are using a kit Porter
made by "Brewer's Best".  It looks pretty good compared to some of
the recipies that we've seen on the net, but we aren't sure what types
of hops it comes with.  They just label the hops as "boiling" and 
"finishing", but we would like to know exactly what types of hops are
being used here.  Does anyone know the varities that come with these
kits?  It would be helpful for us in keeping notes.  On the finishing
hops it is labelled "F" (possibly Fuggles?) and on boiling hops it is
labelled MB or NB (possibly Northern Brewers?).  It came with 1oz of
boiling hops and 1/2 oz of finishing hops.  The 1oz of boiling hops seems 
a little low to us for a porter.

Similarily the strain of yeast is not labelled.  Does anyone know what
these kits come with?  It is just labelled as "Muntons Active Brewing
Yeast" and says "Ideal for Ales" next to the name.  Its in a small 
green bag.

thanks
alex


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 00:31:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Brown <rbrown00 at uoguelph.ca>
Subject: Burner conversion 


Brian Pickerell asked about conversion from Nat. gas to propane.  From 
what I understand (haven't done it yet) the difference between the 2 
gases, other than their actual makeup, is the pressure at which they are 
supplied at.  The natural gas is supplied (local utility) at a lower 
pressure than propane from your BBQ tank and regulator.  The different gas 
pressures require different diameter orifices.  That's the hole that the 
gas exits the gas line and mixes with the air, not the multitude of holes 
(burner ports) that you would find in a ring/star/tube burners business 
end.  The diameter of the orifice effects the turbulence of the gas and 
how well it mixes with the air.  If you contact your local 
natural/propane gas dealer/fitter they will have a handy chart that will 
have the correct diameter.  They can probably sell you a new orifice 
(little screw thingy with hole in middle) or you could solder and redrill 
the old one to the specified size.  I think you need a smaller hole for 
propane but having said that without checking first I am probably wrong.

Brian also asked about mixing the gas with air for combustion.  My 
understanding of this (someone please tell me if I've gone past my 
limited knowledge) as would be seen in a Burner at home or for beer 
making is this.  Some burners etc are enclosed and utilize a 
venturi(bernoulli if you prefer) effect to draw the air through an 
adjustable shutter and into a mixing chamber/tube.  Many look like this:

 GV   s\                                   This tube burner (easier to draw)
 I    s  \____________________________     could have a ring, star, or "bowl"
_I____s                               I    burner port configuration
 I     O   mixing tube  o o o o o o o I    s=shutter valve
 -I----s   ____________________________I    GV= gas valve
      s  /                                 O=orifice
      s/                 burner ports
 


Other burners are simpler and the gas mixes freely in open air 
(turbulence) and the air gas mix is then contained/directed.  My HW 
burner and simple jet type burners(I believe this is what everyone is 
referring to) are of this design: 


   ______
  /     /                                            
 /_____/\         Adj. Flame diffuser                    //----------\\
         \        (steel plate that swings)            //--------------\\
         I I   I                                     //   gas diffusion \\  
         I I   I                                          "plate" 
         I I   I
           I   I  gas/air directional
           I   I  chamber (tube)
           I   I

                  gas/air mixing                
                                                                 O
- -----------I-O-I                              ------------------I I-\ 
gas line       I  Orifice is a hole drilled    gas line              \-
- -----------I---I  in gas tubing cap           ----------------------/  
 
  "jet burner" (without stand)                      Hot Water tank burner
  that I saw at a U.S. home depot


Above are my interpretations of "open air" gas mixing burners.  Making a 
jet burner (or whatever it's called) with the proper orifice, tube, gas 
mixing space, and flame diffuser dimensions, should be easy enough.  
Anyone with this type of burner willing to supply the dimensions?
 
Any gas fitters/engineers with an actual working knowledge are urged to 
correct me or supply the correct terms.  Also, who actually makes the 
cast iron ring burners used in the various brands of stands?  An actual 
burner could be easily mounted in an inexpensive (home made) stand, Anyone?

Hoping for flames (figuratively),		Rob


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 10:20:15 +0200
From: diagen at netvision.net.il (Nir Navot)
Subject: Sparging Techniques

A short poll regarding sparging techniques.
When you Sparge do you:
1. First drain all the wort from the mash tun and then sparge or
2. You sparge as you drain, maintaining the level of the sparge water above
the grain.
I'm trying to decide which method is better, and how each of them affects
the outcoming wort/beer and would appreciate receiving your comments. I'll
post a summary ...

Many thanks,

Nir Navot
Rosh Ha'ayin, Israel
"WeBrew in HeBrew"



Return to table of contents


From: ulick at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie

	id m0smWRb-0006TRC; Sun, 27 Aug 95 02:23 BST
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:23:24 +0100
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie>
Subject: Heaters and coolers
To: Posting Address Only - No Requests <homebrew at hpfcmgw>
In-Reply-To: <199508260700.AA033370408 at hpfcmgw>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9508270248.A106-0100000 at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Robert Brown referred to a burner modification and alluded to using a gas 
water heater.  This is exactly what I used in the US.  I hauled an old 
water heater that had been dumped in the alley into my basement, stripped 
out the burner, thermostat, pilot light, regulator etc. from the bottom.  
I connected this with a 4 or 6 foot black pipe nipple to the natural gas 
supply going to the dryer, and sat the burner in the lap of a metal table 
stand I found dumped for garbage as well.  Worked great in the basement, 
although I always stuck a window fan in the window to extract the water from 
the burn and the boil.

Regarding thermostats (all the trouble with Hunter zeners), if you are in 
any way handy, a wonderful dumb (read non-electronic :-) alternative is 
what I did (and brought back to Ireland with).  I used a regular (24V) 
house thermostat for heating and AC.  I wired the sucker through a cheap 
9V transformer and a relay (purchased at Radio Shack) to switch on the 
freezer.  I mounted it on a piece of plywood that I stood on the freezer 
floor tilted one sixteenth to one side so that 50 meant 40 etc. (the 
device is based on a simple mercury trip switch on a wire spring that 
expands with heat).  It works wonderfully and there is no problem with 
excesive cycling or anything.  I may publish more complete details if 
there is interest.

_____________________________________________________________________________
  'There was a master come unto the earth,  | Dr. Ulick Stafford, 
     born in the holy land of Indiana,      | Wexford Brewing Company,
  in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.| Ballyhurst, Taghmon, Co. Wexford
        http://www.nd.edu:80/~ulick/        | ulick at chemcon.internet-eireann.ie



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edwardine J Lambert <elambert at osf1.gmu.edu>
Subject: questions

I am in the process of brewing my first batch of brew.  I followed the 
advice of bomebrew sages and bought a homebrew kit. I am using True Brew 
Pilsner All Malt.  The process has gone fine with two exceptions. First, I 
forgot to add the Hop Pellets. Secondly, the temperture of the room were 
the fermentation is taking place is aroud 72 degrees and not 60 to 70 
degree rang called for in the recipe. I would greatly appreciate any help 
I can get reguarding these two issues 


Return to table of contents


Date: 27 Aug 95 12:27:02 EDT
From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at compuserve.com>
Subject: counter pressure bottling foam

I need some expert help here!  I just finished spraying pale ale around my
basement in my first attempt at counterpressure bottling.  I'm using the
Braukunst N-1 system.  I followed directions to a "T". My beer was at 34
degrees, CO2 pressure at 10 psi (the beer itself was carbonated at about 7-8
psi), bottles at 35 degrees..  I tried all combinations of filling speeds,
pressure variations (between 9-13 psi), chants, screams, and shooting beer
patterns. The best I could do was an air space of 1 1/2 inches and most were in
the 2-3 inch range.  Not acceptable!  The best technique I could muster was to
slowly let the foam rise up and out of the pressure release valve (into a big
tub) until actual beer reached the top.  But I still ended up with residual
foaming from the bottom causing the large head space. Does it make any
difference how close the end of the filler tube is to the bottom of the bottle?
Any hints out there on 1) how to waste less beer  (I probably threw out 3-4
bottles worth in foam over waste), 2) how to improve the air space (less
foaming)?  

    Dan Ritter  102446.3717 at compuserve.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 12:30 PDT
From: markt at ieway.com (Mark T)
Subject: opaque hefeweizen

I have a question related to the recent posting (HBD 1815) from C. Perilloux:

In the Pacific NW, a popular brew is Widmer Hefeweizen. It's served on tap,
and always has a characteristic opacity. I'm told that the kegs receive no
special treatment such as periodic shaking, yet the beer is consistently
uniform in appearance.
I'd like to emulate this brew, but in my efforts (using barley/wheat
extract) the beer starts out very cloudy, from the bottom of the keg, then
clears. What keeps their yeast in suspension?
I made one batch in which fresh apricots were added at the end of the boil;
the pectin seemed to provide the same type opacity. Does Widmer do
something to keep yeast/protein in suspension? Would an all grain
barley/wheat mixture be different?
Thanks for your thoughts.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:04:43 +1000
From: david.draper at mq.edu.au (Dave Draper)
Subject: My thermometer is fixed! / Mt Hood hops

Dear Friends, I'm sure you are all breathlessly awaiting the news...my
thermometer no longer suffers from separation anxiety.  Turns out that the
gap I had (which was about 50 deg C, larger than I posted originally) was
too big to eliminate with either my regular freezer or a salt - ice bath.
So I went the other way and heated the bulb by waving it in the general
vicinity of a (lit) candle.  Worked like a charm.  Thanks again to all the
respondents -- there were 21 all told, truly amazing.

Thanks too to those who commented on using Mt Hood hops--most of the info I
got was also posted here, so I'll just briefly recap the responses: yes,
their aroma qualities are quite subtle, you need to use a LOT of them, and
the fresher the better; flowers if you can get them.  Even 40 g of pellets
at T-5 min were not enough.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"We [HBDers] are like the Borg" ---Chris Geden
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au  Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
                ...I'm not from here, I just live here...


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 17:25:42 -0800 (PST)
From: XDCHRISTIAN at CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU
Subject: Aeration / Temps / Free Refrigerator

Hi all,

A few questions and a refrigerator for free in Orange County CA

Aerating in the Kettle or the Carboy?
******************************************************************
A few digests back someone mentioned the idea that wiggling the chiller in
the kettle would possibly help proteins clump together assisting in hot/cold
break formation.  I would like to know if there is a benefit in dropping an
air stone into the kettle (after the wort gets around 80F to encourage the
proteins to drop out of solution and aerate the wort at the same time.  I like
this idea because it would eliminate the need to aerate in 2 carboys
and end up with clear wort.  There was a concern about stirring up the trub
in the kettle.  If a brewer is using whole hops and an Easy Masher (tm),
would stirring up the trub with air be a concern?  Or will the hops keep the
wort running clear?

Starter Info
******************************************************************
There has been some information presented lately on the effects of
fermentation temperatures and how high temps can negatively effect the
final product.  Should we be as concerned about the temperatures and 
aeration of our starters? 

Most references I've seen (heard) recommend making a starter solution,
aerate, and inoculate with a yeast culture at "room temp".  Room temp is
not clear to me.  Is "room temp" to 65, 70, 80...?  Shouldn't starters be
fermented out at the expected fermentation temp for the batch of beer that
it is going to be pitched into?  Or are the esters, phenols, and the other
kinds of high temperature by-products not going to be noticeable in the
finished beer?  Also I'd like to know if we want to aerate the wort that is
going to be stepping up the starter or aerate the whole starter after adding
the wort?  

Free Refrigerator
********************************************************************************
Recently, I bought a chest type freezer so I could brew more and have more
beer on hand.  In the spirit of good home brewing, I would like to help
someone out who needs a refrigerator.  The refrigerator that I was using is
old but works.  It is a full  size refrigerator with a freezer on top.  If there
is anyone in the Orange County, CA area who would like to have it, I would
be happy to give it to you.  Perhaps you would like to trade me a 6er of
some of your irresistible home brew for it.


If you are interested, call me (714) 638-3201.

Keith

Being blind doesn't bum me out...
Being with out home brew does!

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 21:02 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Separated thermometer column

===> Dave Draper asks about a separated thermometer column:

>Thermometer:  Awhile back a section of the red-colored alcohol (is that what
>it is?) in my mashing thermometer (10-100C markings but has space to reach
>probably 130 or so, about 30 cm long) somehow detached from the main mass,
>and now sits about 30 or 40C above the rest--there is an air bubble between
>the main mass and this small bit, which has a length equivalent to about 2
>deg. C.  The small section moves up and down, keeping the same distance from
>the top of the main mass.  I have tried a couple of times to get it back by
>putting the thermometer in boiling water but it still stays away.

The way to fix the thermometer with a separated column is to heat it
so that the liquid (alcohol) goes into the bubble at the top or cool
it enough that the liquid withdraws to the bulb.  When I was in the
lab, this was easily done using a dry ice/acetone bath or liquid
nitrogen.  What I'd do if I were you is put some cooking oil in a
small sauce pan.  Heat it gently until it reaches a temperature that
pushes the thermometer liquid all the way into the bubble at the top
of the thermometer.  Tap the top of the thermometer gently and then
let it cool.  The liquid column should withdraw from the bubble as a
single entity and now be unbroken.

>Do I have to add the couple of deg. represented by this small length to
>the temperature indicated by the top of the main mass in order to get the
>correct temperature--i.e., is it an additive thing?  Or do I ignore that
>little bit and just read the top of the main mass as the real temperature?

I never trusted a thermometer with a separated column.  Either I fixed
it as described above or threw the thermometer away.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel   Lisle, Illinois               pgravel at mcs.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 21:30 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Burner conversion

===> Brian Pickerill asks about natural gas to propane conversion:

>I've read several times that people have "converted" nat. gas to propane, but
>never any info about how this is done.  Is there really no conversion, just
>a matter of hooking it up, does the propane need to be mixed with air somehow
>prior to the ignition point (as in my propane grill), or what?

You need to change the jet in the burner.  A good plumbing or furnace/
heating supply house should have them.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel   Lisle, Illinois               pgravel at mcs.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 22:53:15 PDT
From: NAFRANK at pop03.ca.us.ibm.net (Nicholas A. Franke)
Subject: All-Wheat Beer Response

	In HBD #1815 (August 26), Bill Bunning questioned whether 
wheat malt had the diastatic power to permit a wheat beer to be 
made from a 100% wheat grist.  In my opinion, a 100% wheat grist 
can be used.
	In June I made a hefeweizen with the following grain 
bill:
		7.25# German Wheat Malt
		2.5 # Canadian Wheat Malt
		 .75# German Caramel Malt (10L)
		1   # Wheat Flakes
		4 qts. Rice Hulls

	I used a single decoction mash.  The sparge yielded 
7.25 gals. of wort at S.G. 1.042.  
	I believe that had barley malt been added to the grain 
bill of this beer that the extract yield would have been higher. 
In my opinion, extract yield suffers as the percentage of wheat 
in the grist increases.  I have no specific data to back up these 
assumptions, but base them only on general observation.
	I am now a firm believer in using 100% wheat in the 
hefeweizen grist, though.  Out of several weizens I have made 
with the same yeast and general procedure, this one is by far the 
best and most closely resembles a German hefeweizen.

				NAF.
				nafrank at ibm.net


Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1816, 08/28/95