HOMEBREW Digest #1827 Sat 09 September 1995

Digest #1826 Digest #1828

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Yeast Starters Revisited... ("Pat Babcock")
  Controling Diacetyl (WY1968) (Aaron Birenboim)
  RE Lauter Tuns - a newbee point (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  RE 60 min boil time (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  RE BR Malt Mill (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  Three Piece Airlock (Jeff Bosh)
  1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition (Wolfe)
  Hawaiian Ale (Jim Overstreet)
  RE: Starters (Mario Robaina)
  More chillin stories... (rich.byrnes)
  No Fat Milk for Labels (Kyle R Roberson)
  Stoudt's Oktoberfest ticket ("mike spinelli")
  Saving used yeast (Billy Cole)
  Gott cooler size... (lconrad)
  St. Patrick's counterpoint (smtplink!guym)
  Thomas Kemper White - true to style? (Pat Loughery)
  Beginner's question - proiblem w/starters (Rolland Everitt)
  HSA during sparging / Post vs. Email (Dave Draper)
  scum skimming report / labels (Kevin Imel)
  pitch timing (Algis R Korzonas)
  Malt Mill Motorization (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
  RE: Extra Yeast Package/Yeast Lag Time/Ringwood? (MClarke950)
  Water Chemistry (BRIAN KEITH GEIGER)
  Bottle Labeling, Recipe Request (CPTFio)
  to rouse or not to rouse ("Sharon A. Ritter")
  Zinc/Galvanized steel ("Philip Gravel")
  Removing labels with TSP (Eric Palmer)
  Malt Diastase/Infected Starters (Kirk R Fleming)
  Boiling, Maths and Cleaning (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  Lack of body (Tim Hawkins)
  all-grain carbonation (WattsBrew)
  Needed:Thermodynamic wizards ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Rambelings..... (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900  )
  Re: Minikeg CO2 (Gary Novosel)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:35:15 +0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Yeast Starters Revisited... In HBD 1825 Dan McConnell talked about yeast and nasties in starters. Though my starters and slants - my entire yeast ranch (save one unfortunate incident involving a frozen thermostat capillary tube) - is very successful, I want to do the BEST I possibly can to ensure the yeasts' dominance in the wort environment upon pitching. And I'd also like to experience a few of my brews with the lighter metabolic soup that comes from proper pitching rates. Therefor, I'm hoping Dan can expand on a few things stated in his post. That done with, my supplication: o I usually pitch from a 1.5 l starter, from a 400 ml starter, from a 35 ml starter from an inoculation look that has touched greatness in my slant. In his posting, Dan states that "1L is an underpitch for a 5 gal batch". I buy this as my lag time is not as short as I'd like (eventually would like to get to a few hours lag, but from my starter; not from dregs). What is considered adequate for a 5 gallon batch? Perhaps a liter/ gallon expression would be most helpful to those who do 6.5 and 7 gallon batches. Also, when we say 1L, are we referring to a one liter starter, or a one liter yeast cake? o What should be the indication that it is time to step up. I usually step up immediately (immediately is a relative term) following high kraeusen in the preceding step. Is this ok? o Is there a good (read: inexpensive) reference on yeasts that includes identification info? With pictures so I can compare what I see under the scope to known varieties (or am I all wet with that approach)? That's it! Can you enlighten us one more time, Dan? Sure would be appreciated! Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock | "Drink all you want - I'll brew more!" President, Brew-Master | and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 10:18:13 MDT From: birenboi at ataway.aptec.com (Aaron Birenboim) Subject: Controling Diacetyl (WY1968) I am going to do a split batch with Wyeast 1028 (London ale?) and Wyeast 1968 (London ESB?). The 1968 (i think thats the number) is known to pruduce A LOT of diacetyl. I like diacetyl, but not a ton of it. How does one control diacetyl levels in the finished beer? I have some guesses at factors which may effect diacetyl levels, but I do not know in which direction these techniques will drive diacetyl in the finished beer. Please provide any advice you can ASAP ( I pitch in saturday!!! ) 1) Pitching temeperature 2) Aeration (oxygenation) 3) Rousing yeast in primary 4) Racking time 5) Fermentation temperature profile I am fermenting in a fridge, so I can control the fermentation temperature profile. Aaron Birenboim | birenboi at ataway.aptec.com | Personal : ATA | http://www.aptec.com/aaron/ | mole at netcom.com 1900 Randolph Rd. SE | | ABQ, NM 87106 | (505) 247-8371 FAX 768-1379 | Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 13:13:26 EST From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com Subject: RE Lauter Tuns - a newbee point In #1825, Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca>Subject asks re Mash/Lauter-Tun design: >I make 5 gallon batches. Are the large rectangular coolers ok for this >size >or would the 5 gallon Gott, cylindrical style be better? >(Note: I have a rectangular one already. I was ready to buy a Gott because it should make it a no-brainer to maintain temp. What was pointed out to me that I had *not* thought through is that, by using a cooler for a mash tun, I would be giving up the ability to raise mash temp "easily" (eg by turning up the heat) - with the exception of what I think is called the Easy Masher (tm or whatever). In my never-done-a-full-mash mind, that meant mostly decoction mashing; which I am not willing to deal with as yet. Thus, I'm sticking with partial mashing :-( till I can organize a keg-cutting expedition to locate a large-enough kettle. May not be an issue for Dave, but perhaps for others. Twas an eye opener for me. FYI. -Tim timf at relay.com Beers me Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 13:26:49 EST From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com Subject: RE 60 min boil time In #1825, rich.adam at mayo.edu (Adam Rich) writes: >On a related note, why is it bad to boil the wort for more then 60 >minutes when makeing an extract-based beer? When makeing lighter ales >would I be well-advised to boil for only 30 minutes? Says whom? Much of what I have learned (and most of that from HBD, thank you :-) says that 60 mins is a minimum boil time. In fact, I'm now boiling everything average-aleish for 75 minutes. No hops added for the first 15 mins, then add them and do the hr boil. I suppose that for a light color target one might want to shorten the boil to avoid darkening the beer? -Tim timf at relay.com Beers me (please) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 14:11:48 EST From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com Subject: RE BR Malt Mill Sorry 'bout this post, but couldnt contact Joe directly... >Brewer's Resource Mill > Just got myself one of these jobbies. Anyone wanna write me and swap > gossip about roller settings? Why not call BR and ask? they should (or had better, anyway) have some advice. I dont have one but have been considering one. Would you mind emailing me (or posting to HBD) re results after a batch or 3? -Tim timf at relay.com Vienna, VA, USA, EARTH, etc. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:56:07 -0400 From: jbosh at cais.cais.com (Jeff Bosh) Subject: Three Piece Airlock I have a plastic carboy and three piece airlock. I frequently find that my fermentations must be so vigorous and so quick that I never see any pressure in the airlock. (ie must be happening while I am sleeping). Should my "bloop, blooping" last more that 8 hours, or should I really try to look and see if I have a leak in the plastic carboy, or am I "worrying" too much. So far the beer has been good. Please post me personnally if you wish. Jeff Bosh jbosh at cais.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 13:15 CST From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org Subject: 1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition 1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition When: Saturday, November 18th, 1995 Where: Iowa City, Iowa Entry Deadline: November 10th, 1995 The Honorable Iowa River Society of Talented Yeastmasters (THIRSTY) is holding its second homebrew competition. This year, we are reducing the entry fees ($4.50 per entry for 1-3 entries or $3.50 per entry for 4 or more entries), are offering more prizes (Best of Show Beer, Best of Show Mead, and Best of Homebrew--a category judged solely on overall drinkability, no AHA guidelines!), and are planning a BJCP exam the day after the competition. And, we still request only two bottles of your brew! Ribbons will be awarded for each category and prizes (up to $75 worth) will be given for Best of ... winners (9 in all). All entries will be judged by BJCP judges. For entry and/or judging information and forms, contact Dave Schinker at 319-523-2314 or Ed Wolfe at wolfe at act-12-po.act.org. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:01:13 -0600 From: wa5dxp at mail.sstar.com (Jim Overstreet) Subject: Hawaiian Ale I happend to be in Honolulu over Labor Day, and had a chance to taste a new Hawaiian beer, Aili Ale. Very good, a pale ale on the order of Sierra Nevada, although darker, highly hopped, very good. It's hard to find, and was told they don't make too much of it. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:13:58 -0700 (PDT) From: sprmario at netcom.com (Mario Robaina) Subject: RE: Starters Alex Sessions asks about whether the beasties we are trying to avoid in making starters may in fact get to the starters also. A few people have responded, but I wanted to add a couple of possibilities that might help explain why starters work: (1) I have found that I am able to be much more sanitary in preparing a starter than in preparing an entire batch: because of the smaller volume invovled, starter wort spends less time in contact with the (contaminant full) air, and I take the precaution of doing such things as flaming the lip of the starter bottle. (2) Perhaps more importantly, you have to think of these things in volumes. The average number of cells in a yeast pack are not really adequate to get a 5 gallon batch going quickly, but are more than enough to get an 18 oz. starter going in a hurry. Sure, a few beasties may land in your starter, but it's not as important when so much yeast is pitched relative to the volume of the starter. Think of it this way: pitching a packet of yeast to 18 oz is something like pitching 1 qt. of yeast to a 5 gallon batch (pure speculation, but the ratio is indeed a lot higher). With such high ratios (yeast to wort), the beasties don't have a chance. -John (wearing an outfit that makes him look an awful lot like sprmario at netcom.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 15:33:23 EDT From: rich.byrnes at e-mail.com Subject: More chillin stories... THIS IS A CORPORATE DOCUMENT - FOLLOW RECORDS MANAGEMENT POLICY FROM: Rich Byrnes Subject: More chillin stories... Question for the collective, is my beer ruined? I had a brainfart the last time I was in Home-Depot and bought an industrial paint stirrer, the kind that is 3.5 feet tall with a fluted impeller device at the bottom, and locks into a drill. Anyways, using my trusty 50' immersion chiller, I waited til my wort was below 160F (but yes, I threw it in the boiling wort to sterilize it first) and fired it up, the results were magnificant and twofold, first the whirlpool forced the wort through (yes through, I wired my wort chiller with a gap between every coil) my coils and cooled it quicker, second the whirlpool laid all the hops and break on the bottom and thirdly (oops, did I say only two benifits to this?) I occasionally brought the impeller above the surface to whip air into the cooling wort, I had a layer of foam on top that hop leaves were floating on, what a sight. Anyways, this Fat-Tire clone I made was krausening within 4 hours (used a quart starter of 1214, and a drilled copper racking tube to induce even more air into the wort) Now, can anyone see a problem using this device? It was under $10 and if there's not a procedural problem, I think $10 well spent! NO PRIVATE E-MAIL RESPONSES, THIS IS WAY TOO IMPORTANT, well, maybe not, but this should be of interest to everyone. I'll summarize responses if I do get private E-mail. TIA! Rich Byrnes Founder Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen Ignore the next few lines, I usually do! Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|/// phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.) Rich.Byrnes at E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:14:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson at beta.tricity.wsu.edu> Subject: No Fat Milk for Labels There have been several recommendations to use WHOLE milk to stick on labels. I thought I would mention that I've been using a saucer of no-fat milk to stick on labels for two years. I was guessing that it was the protein that was acting as the glue and the fat just increased the chances of becoming smelly. I think this guess turned out to be correct, or at least the labels stay on until I dunk the bottles in water. Try it out. Kyle Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 16:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> Subject: Stoudt's Oktoberfest ticket **********PHILLY AREA INTEREST ONLY*********** I've got an extra ticket to the Stoudt's Oktoberfest beer extravaganza on Saturday Sept. 23rd (7-11pm show) in Adamstown, PA. I believe it's now sold out. I'll trade it for a 12'er of good brew. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 13:15:18 PDT From: bill_cole at ariel.com (Billy Cole) Subject: Saving used yeast I have a question for all of you brewing black belts. I have brewed about 5 batches of partial grain brews already. Each time I clean out my primary tub, I toss a gazillion yeasties down the drain. I would like to save them. I currently have a batch of oatmeal stout in its primary fermentation right now. I see about a 3 inch sediment on the bottom of the fermentation tub. I figure I'll bottle the brew next week sometime and will brew again in about 2 or 3 weeks. What would be the best way for me to save the yeast I have now and reuse it when I brew again? Thanks in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 16:32:05 -0400 From: lconrad at apollo.hp.com Subject: Gott cooler size... Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> My question is: Is the 5 gallon size ok? I'd like to minimize the cost and the space requirements. Will the 5 gallon size greatly limit the beer types I wish to make (i.e. will high gravity brews be impossible?) BTW, I brew 5 gallon batches. Dave Riedel I bought a 5 gallon cooler and used it for several years for my all-grain batches. I don't do a lot of high-gravity brewing, so as long as I was only making 5 gallon batches, I was fine with the 5 gallon cooler. I am in the process of upgrading to the 10 gallon size, because I am now making 6 gallon batches (because I keg in 3 gallon kegs, so it made sense), and I find that even 12 pounds of grain (which is what I use to make 6 gallons of pale ale) is tight in my 5 gallon cooler setup. The 10 gallon cooler is useful to have around, even though I haven't brewed with it yet. The 5 gallon cooler is a good way to carry a 3 gallon keg to a party, but if you use the 10 gallon cooler you can carry both the keg and the food you are bringing. Laura Snail Mail: ------- Laura Conrad Hewlett-Packard Co. | / Phone: (508) 436-4243 300 Apollo Drive | / Internet: lconrad at apollo.hp.com Chelmsford, Ma 01824 | /___ Mail stop: chr-01-fo |_______ Fax: (508) 436-5117 -------- Laura Snail Mail: ------- Laura Conrad Hewlett-Packard Co. | / Phone: (508) 436-4243 300 Apollo Drive | / Internet: lconrad at apollo.hp.com Chelmsford, Ma 01824 | /___ Mail stop: chr-01-fo |_______ Fax: (508) 436-5117 -------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 16:50:11 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net Subject: St. Patrick's counterpoint A counterpoint to Jay Reeves post about poor service from St. Pat's. I have done business with St. Pat's for about 3 years now (living in Huntsville the first year, then in Orlando, and now Huntersville, NC) and have never, ever had a single problem with them. My orders have always been processed quickly and accurately and delivered in good shape - on time. Lynne carries many items that I can't get locally (even living 12 miles north of Alternative Beverage) and her prices often beat local prices, shipping included. A little while back, I was in a similar situation to Jay's. An upcoming weekend with time for brewing and I needed supplies. I ordered from Lynne on a Tuesday and told her that I needed it by Friday to brew with on the weekend. I got it on Thursday. I don't mean to belittle Jay's experience, he certainly has a legitimate gripe, but I wish to point out that St. Pat's does not normally do business this way (in my experience anyway). Bad experiences almost always get communicated while good ones seldom do. Just another data point. -- Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com "The world is a toy if you'll just stay a boy. You can spin it again and again..." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 14:11 PDT From: Pat Loughery <patl at isc-br.isc-br.com> Subject: Thomas Kemper White - true to style? I recently found that my local (northern Idaho) grocery store is stocking a few Portland Brewing Co's beers, and a couple new Thomas Kemper beers. I'm convinced that the recent stocking of GOOD beer is because I'm buying their good stuff and forcing them to expand past Weinhardt's as their "craft" beer... I picked up a sixpack of Thomas Kemper's White, a spiced wit with curacao oranges and the whole nine yards. The neck label even gives kudos to Mr. Celis for reviving the Belgian styles in the US in the last decade. I'm curious - how close is this beer to a good Belgian Wit? It's a good beer, but more bland than I expected it to be. - ----- Pat Loughery - Olivetti North America Spokane, WA w:(509)921-2616 <patl at mail.spk.olivetti.com or patl at mom.isc-br.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 17:38:19 -0400 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: Beginner's question - proiblem w/starters Until now, I have been pitching yeast without stepping it up. I have had good results - fast starts - probably due in part to my warm basement (70F). I want to start using starters, and have twice tried to make one. In each case I used wort made of DME with a pinch of yeast nutrients added. Gravity was about 1.050 in both cases. One I used a bit of RTP liquid London Ale Yeast, and the other time I used the dregs of a bottle of my own homebrew. In both cases, after a lag of about 12 hours I started to see some bubbles. Both times it looked as though the starter was going to take off, and both times it pooped out. I aerated both starters well (I think), and re-aerated them when activity slowed - to no avail. What am I doing wrong? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 08:09:17 +1000 From: david.draper at mq.edu.au (Dave Draper) Subject: HSA during sparging / Post vs. Email Dear Friends, I tried sending this once but it ended up in bitbucket somewhere--three days with no automagical response. So, here we go again... The recent posts on peaking of flavor have prompted some concerns about my setup. I am wondering if my procedures are unduly risking HSA, particularly during sparging. Briefly, here is my setup: I sparge in a 25-litre plastic fermenter retired from active service; it has a spigot in the bottom into which I fit my postmodern-sculpted hacksawed copper manifold. Because my current situation is such that my maximum mash mass (I love alliteration) is about 4 kg, the mash + sweet wort at the beginning of the sparging process comes to only about half the depth of the tun--that is, the tun is about half full at the start. Thus there is about 25-30 cm (about a foot) of air between the top of my wort + mash bed and the lip of the bin. The first possible source of oxidation is when I dump the goods into the sparging bin. It's at mashout temp, 77 C, and splashes like mad. I can think of lots of ways to avoid this; however most of the texts I've seen recommend doing just this. For example, see Miller's partial-mash description: the wort drops from a collander into the brewkettle quite a ways below. Next, during recirculation I pour the first runnings back into the top of the bin onto an inverted saucer--more splashing. I can't reach in to the bin with my pitcher, so it pours from the 25-30 cm height mentioned above. Eventually this is not a concern any longer, once I am adding sparge water and not cloudy wort; typically my runoff is clear after about 4 litres (usually just as the grain bed becomes visible). The sweet wort runs through a short length of tubing into the kettle so there's no worries there. So, what do others do? I can envision a few things: scoop the mash into the bin rather than dumping it. Ladle the first runnings back into the bin rather than pouring it. Is this common practice with You Out There? Is the amount of oxidation likely to occur from these sources enough to worry about? The motivating observation here is that my beers tend to peak young, at around a month, and are noticeably "old" tasting at 4+ (I rarely brew at OGs > 1065)--some sherry notes, not exactly cardboard, but definitely over the hill. I, ahem, never manage to keep a batch around any longer than that, I'm afraid. Thanks for any input. ****** Bruce Taber de-lurked to comment on the relative merits of email communication and public posting in response to questions. He made the valid point that many people have similar questions to those posted, and that public responses would benefit these folks. There is a flip side, though, and that is that the digest could quickly become little more than a FAQ-answering forum--and that is what we have FAQ files for. The example of calculating extract efficiency that Bruce mentioned is a classic, although to be fair, the other two (lactic bugs in grain husks, foaming problems in kegging setups) are less commonly addressed. I do not have a hard and fast answer here--I know firsthand that some of the best value of the digest comes from private communication prompted by a public post. I would encourage those left unsatisfied by the level of public response to keep a little notebook or something of things that come up in which you share an interest--if not enough gets posted in the next few issues, then email the person who asked and ask them to share what they have gotten in the way of replies. Frankly, I think most people who request info and get it privately are pretty conscientious about posting summaries, but others clearly see it differently. Bruce, I'm not singling you out, your point is well taken; but surely we've all seen cases where it seems like everyone is answering the same question all at once. For example, does *anyone* really want to hear any more about my thermometer??? :-} Cheers, Dave in Sydney "Hops away! The more the better." ---Roger Deschner - --- *************************************************************************** David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper ...I'm not from here, I just live here... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 14:55:46 -0700 From: kimel at moscow.com (Kevin Imel) Subject: scum skimming report / labels Hello everyone! Awhile back I asked for comments on skimming the scum that forms during a boil and since most of the replies were via private e-mail I thought I would post the results. A hearty thank you to all that took the time to reply (whose names I have summarily lost/forgotten). There seem to be two schools of thought here: The first is that skimming the scum is a good thing because it helps prevent those nasty boilovers as well as providing you with something to do while waiting for the long boil to get done and over with. This seems to be the predominant school of thought. The second school seems to feel that skimming the scum is at best a waste of time and at worst is removing some of the head forming/retention stuff. One respondent seemed to think that all the scum stuff (techical term) would eventually drop out in the trub. Me, I think I will continue to skim the scum if for no other reason than it gives me something to do while watching the pot. - ------ RE: Labels and the sticking on thereof. Will this thread never die? Anyway, my 2 cents worth follows: I have tried everything from glue sticks to milk to flour-water paste. My favorite to date is simply a diluted Elmer's white glue. I can't give you a specific dilution factor but this stuff works great and comes off after a quick soak in warm water. For labels themselves I just set them up in word for windows, run them off on white paper and then wander down to the local photocopy place and pick out a nice color of paper. Most shops will even cut them out for you if you want. Cheers! Kevin ___________________________________________________________________ Kevin Imel The only way to truely fail is kimel at moscow.com to fail to try. kimel at vetmed.wsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 13:46:21 CDT From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: pitch timing Chris writes: > When using starters, is it better to pitch settled slurry (sans "beer") or >to pitch the whole solution at high kreusen? How do you time these things so >you can plan on brewing when you want to, rather than being at the mercy of an >agenda set by one-celled organisms? It is better to allow the starter to ferment out and just pitch the settling or settled-out slurry. The reason is that you want the yeast to have the highest level of glycogen. At high kraeusen, their glycogen level is lowest whereas just as fermentation is ending, their glycogen level is highest. I've posted on this numerous times and there is more detail (including technical references) in those previous posts so just search the archives for "pitch timing" I believe. Timing is an interesting dilemma. If you wait too long (I would guess two days (at room temperature) after settling is too long) the yeast begin to deplete their glycogen just to sustain themselves. The best way to time the starters is to know your yeast and be familiar with the condition in which you get it (i.e. stick with one supplier). Some strains take longer to ferment the starter out than others, so you just have to take good notes and refer back to them when you are planning to brew. What if you *do* wait "too long?" You have a choice: 1) feed the yeast again (pour off some or all of the spent wort and add more fresh wort) or 2) just pitch it and don't worry about it. Which you choose depends on how important this batch is (is it for an important competition?) and how long past settling has the starter been sitting. You can slow down the yeast if you see that they will be finishing the starter before you are ready to brew: cool it down. However, remember that you cannot just toss it in a 40F fridge from a 75F room... you need to cool it down slowly. Now a question for the microbiologists: Yes, we know that sudden cooling can shock yeast... but what about rather fast warming? Can we take that yeast starter out of the 40F fridge and let it warm up to 65F in a few hours without shocking/damaging/insulting the yeast? Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 17:10:53 -0600 From: homebrew at infomagic.com (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist) Subject: Malt Mill Motorization >To: Reply >From: homebrew at infomagic.com (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist) >Subject: Malt Mill Motorization > >Hey Everyone, >Last week some of you were discussing how to motorize the malt mill. I missed the results since my hard drive died. If someone has that info and would like to share, I would be very interested. A global post, or a personal E-Mail would be great! Thanks Jeff > Jeff Handley ** homebrew at infomagic.com Homebrewers Outpost-Flagstaff, Arizona http://www.homebrewers.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 19:43:42 -0400 From: MClarke950 at aol.com Subject: RE: Extra Yeast Package/Yeast Lag Time/Ringwood? Chris Strickland cstrick at iu.net asked: >Question, to speed up the fermentation start, would using two Wyeast pack to >make two starters speed up the initial fermentation start time. Currently >the first batch takes about 48 hours to start (even with a starter). I'm >thinking that two starters might take less than 24 hours. It's only $6 and >and considering I can reuse the yeast at least five more times, that's only >a $1 per batch. I don't think it would hurt, but a better plan is to buy the smak-pak a week (or more) ahead of time and grow it in size. You know create a normal starter, let it settle, then a couple of nights before brewing start a larger starter, pour off the "beer" from the primary starter and then pitch yeast into the second, larger starter. Your yeast will be active and you'll have a large number of cells. I realise this is a little vague, the second starter should be the same SG as the primary starter but twice the volume (ie the primary = pint, secondary = quart). This also gives you some control over the yeast being ready when you need it. Trying to make a starter the night before brewing is asking for trouble (like you got a pak that has little or no viable yeast in it). If this happened a week ahead of time, you still have time to purchase another one. Question: How does the YEASTLAB Ringwood yeast compare to the WYEAST London ESB Yeast? I've never been to one of these pubs so I have no idea what the profile is like. Cheers, Mike Mike Clarke Seattle, WA. USA eMail: MClarke950 at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 20:41:21 -0400 (EDT) From: BRIAN KEITH GEIGER <bkg6068 at email.unc.edu> Subject: Water Chemistry I am switching from extract to all-grain brewing. Does anyone know of software, commercial or otherwise, that would allow me to calculate water chemistry on a computer? Thanks. - brian geiger Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 20:52:42 -0400 From: CPTFio at aol.com Subject: Bottle Labeling, Recipe Request My approach to labeling is simple, if crude. I use little "Post It" all-purpose labels that are 1/2" by 3/4". They come in four colors: white, yellow, green and red, and a pack of 384 labels costs about $2.00. I use them on my bottle caps. Though they are small, they have enough room for an abbreviated brew name and a bottling date. The advantages: Clean and very quick application, and you don't have to remove them from bottles. Disadvantages: You have to write out each label, and they lack aesthetic charm. But never judge a beer by it's label. . . Now for a recipe request: Sam Adams Boston Lager. I am a very novice brewer, and I use malt extracts with some grains boiled in. Does anyone have a recipe that approximates this tasty beer? Thanks in advance! Paul Fiorino CPTFio at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Sep 95 21:09:25 EDT From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at compuserve.com> Subject: to rouse or not to rouse After one year of brewing and 14 batches, I've been able to duplicate something for the first time (and it's not an award winning beer!)! It has to do with Wyeast #1098. I've used it twice in the same pale ale recipe and got the same results. The yeast forms a rocky head within 12 hours, ferments vigorously for 24-36 hours (temp at 66-68 degrees), the head drops as fast as it appeared, and fermentation slows to a point where it appears time to rack to a secondary fermenter (airlock bubbles once every minute or so). However, the gravity is still 6 to 8 points higher than it should finish at. There's no way to make up that much fermentation ground in the secondary. So, I've been thinking that maybe the yeast settles out too quickly and I should gently rock the fermenter to stir that yeast out of its slumber. (I've ruled out a lack of oxygen in the wort as a cause because I go overboard with aeration and I never have this problem with other Wyeast strains I've used). Rousing it in this manner would not introduce oxygen because the system has been closed since the start of fermentation. Any ideas about rousing and its possible benefits or risks? Anyone else have a similar experience with 1098? Is anyone from Wyeast online to pose these kind of questions direct? Dan Ritter, 102446.3717 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:06:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Philip Gravel" <pgravel at mcs.com> Subject: Zinc/Galvanized steel ===> John Palmer provides some information regarding zinc: >I don't know if the lemonade in galvanized garbage cans is urban legend or >not, but I can say that if a galvanization process incorporates any Cadmium >into the melt then yes you will be dead meat. Plain zinc galvanization re. >toxicity I dont have any data on. I would avoid it myself since I dont know >more about it. I'd like to add to what John said. Zinc is a rather chemically active metal. It will oxidize much more readily than other metals. That's how it protects iron in galvanizing -- it reacts in preference to iron. In acidic solutions (pH < 7) such as lemonade or wort, zinc will react: 2 Zn + 4 H+ + O2 ----> 2 Zn(2+) + 2 H2O I can't speak to the toxicity of zinc, but at the very least a lot of zinc salts will end up in solution and will likely give the liquid a metallic taste. Therefore, I would avoid using galvanized steel for anything that comes into contact with wort. I would recommend using relatively non-reactive metals -- stainless steel, brass, copper, chrome, aluminum, etc. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 21:33:05 PDT From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer) Subject: Removing labels with TSP With all this talk about removing labels, I haven't heard anything about TSP (trisodium phosphate). It's cheap, available at paint and hardware stores and works great plus no foul ammonia odor. I use it in very heavy concentrations (maybe heaver than I need), using at least a cup for probably 10 gal. of VERY hot water plus a good measure of bleach just for sanitization. Stir thoroughly to dissolve. If soaked overnight, the labels literly float off with no scraping! The normal use for this stuff is for cleaning paint brushes and prepping walls or wood trim prior to repainting. It's ok on hands without gloves if you don't mind losing a few spare skin cells. I never wear gloves but instructions say to do so. Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 22:40:40 -0600 From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) Subject: Malt Diastase/Infected Starters While at the 'scientific supply' house this pm I bought a 100g bottle of malt diastase powder. I boiled some rice for 30-40 min, chilled to 150F and mixed in a total of about 25g of the diastase over a 30 min period. After 45 min of this silly exercise, iodine still showed deep purple. Why was there no conversion? Prior to purchase I looked up malt diastase in the Mercx (or similar) and the narrative there sure indicated it was an enzyme extract of malted barley. A few HBDs back someone mentioned his/her starters always seemed to be infected, and reported a ring around the inside of the bottle and a foul odor (as I recall). I wanted to mention it at the time, and since I've seen no response to that post I'll do so now: there is nothing unusual about a deposit of scum in the starter bottle, nor is aroma really a sufficient indicator of a bad starter. The inside of your starter bottle will generally look about as bad as your primary fermenter, and the aroma from some yeasts, as you know, can be pretty foul (1098 comes to mind). Without more details regarding the exact procedure, I'd say that unless you rinsed with tapwater (unboiled/sanitized), chances are against that many starters all being bad. KRF Colorado Springs Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 21:20:57 +1000 From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Boiling, Maths and Cleaning Algis Korzonas posted that he doesn't like math and thermodynamics much--ME TOO MATE! Its laborous and easy to stuff up but I post it to better understand and I know there are highly qualified thermodynamic engineers in the collective who will correct mistakes. I get much of my technical info from Alfa Laval who spend millions on research and publish it willy nilly. They are so big that their only competition already knows the technology, they don't seem to mind who else gets the info. They sparge exactly to final volume and waste nothing. They do it by simply recyling the weak runnings. The boil is a volume adjustment because they have injected steam to rapidly heat. They boil most of the time at 80C and adjust about 5% volume. They even sparge the hot break for alpha acids! I suggest that DMS is easily carried away by a 5% reduction. For a good hot break, the mechanical vibration of a *vigourous* boil is supplied by the conical heating surface and not by supplying a lot of heat to *rapidly* boil. Their low pressure/low temp boil is *I think*, an attempt to avoid caramelization and melanoiden reactions, but the jury is still out on that as they didn't say. Cleaning Counterflow Tubes The sinker/pullthruogh didn't work on my old one because the tube was too long and I kinked it out of round. I also propell the sinker with water. Its not easy I admit but I like too drag things through. Another technique that works is propelling a few small natural sanitary sponges down the tube with water. If you are not a woman, ask one, I did! Thanks for the responses, Jim and Algis, any more? Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 06:52:31 PDT From: Tim Hawkins <hawkins at arlut.utexas.edu> Subject: Lack of body I am a new homebrewer and I have a problem with my latest (2nd) batch of beer. It is a nut brown ale and it seems to have a wonderful taste, but has no body. It's odd, because it has a strong taste, but at the same time tastes watery. The OG was about 1.055 and the final was about 1.011, which was about right. I got the ingredients (extract) and the recipe from St. Pats here in Austin (very convenient), so I trust them. My only thought is that after cooling the wort, I racked it into a carboy and let it settle overnight before racking it into a fermenter and pitching the yeast, trying to siphon the wort off the break. May I have lost too much wort in the break, even though the OG was correct ? If anyone has an idea, please let me know, I'd like to correct it before my next batch. -Tim Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:06:59 -0400 From: WattsBrew at aol.com Subject: all-grain carbonation I recently brewed my first batch of all grain (Pale Ale) and I think it came out pretty good. But that is not my problem. I brewed up a 10 gallon batch and after fermentation I kegged it in two 5-gallon corny kegs. Force carbonated both with 35 lbs overnight (same procedure I always use), released the head pressure on both and started drinking the first, which was perfectly carbonated and tasted real hoppy. When I came to the second keg three weeks later, I discovered that it was pretty flat so I forced it again. After releasing the head pressure I discovered this kegs hop flavor had mellowed some but the carbonation seems higher. The beer pours half a glass of thick creamy head that stays for a long time. I love the taste but the foam can be annoying. I have lowered my gas pressure to about 2 lbs and it still foams up every time. Does anyone out there have a clue as to the cause. TIA, Bill Watt (wattsbrew at aol.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:14:03 -0400 From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu> Subject: Needed:Thermodynamic wizards I plan to build an immersion chiller for 10 gallon batches using 60 feet of copper coil, 3/8 or 1/2 inch. Would any one have a suggestion for the best lengths of the coils if I plan on having two, the first coil would be in an ice bath, the second would be in the kettle. Thanks Rick Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 9:05:14 EDT From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbdcom.apgea.army.mil> Subject: Rambelings..... Everybody seems concerned over labels! Back... Way back.... When I bottled, I never labeled all the bottles. Only the ones to give as gifts, or to mark the case. Never combined batches in the same case. For Quick, easy labels.... do 'em on the pc, trim the excess off (4 or so to a page) and tape (scotch type) them to the bottles. It's quick, easy, looks ok (providing not too much tape is applied) and easy to remove. The entire bottling process is a PITA! I highly recommend kegging. One label to do (or 2 since I went to 10 gal batches). Plus, now that my beers are better than the average bears!, I don't give them away. Sure, you can have some if you come over.... but i'm not going out of my way to give it to you! One last note on stubborn label removal.... I have found that soaking the bottles in a bucket of water with some laundry soap in it will remove any and all labels! Quickly and easily. In fact, most float off w/out any effort on my.... your part! Ever notice how the HBD goes in one big circle..??? I've only been on this thing for ..... golly, a year and a half now, and everything comes back around...... !!!! Boil your yeast before making a starter!!! It keeps all the nasties out! Kevin North East, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 07:22:53 -0500 From: offsite at mindspring.com (Gary Novosel) Subject: Re: Minikeg CO2 There is also an air pump available for those minikegs. I have had one mini expand without blowing the plug due to overpriming. I guess I need to be more exact in my priming. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1827, 09/09/95