HOMEBREW Digest #1827 Sat 09 September 1995
Digest #1826
Digest #1828
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Yeast Starters Revisited... ("Pat Babcock")
Controling Diacetyl (WY1968) (Aaron Birenboim)
RE Lauter Tuns - a newbee point (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
RE 60 min boil time (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
RE BR Malt Mill (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
Three Piece Airlock (Jeff Bosh)
1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition (Wolfe)
Hawaiian Ale (Jim Overstreet)
RE: Starters (Mario Robaina)
More chillin stories... (rich.byrnes)
No Fat Milk for Labels (Kyle R Roberson)
Stoudt's Oktoberfest ticket ("mike spinelli")
Saving used yeast (Billy Cole)
Gott cooler size... (lconrad)
St. Patrick's counterpoint (smtplink!guym)
Thomas Kemper White - true to style? (Pat Loughery)
Beginner's question - proiblem w/starters (Rolland Everitt)
HSA during sparging / Post vs. Email (Dave Draper)
scum skimming report / labels (Kevin Imel)
pitch timing (Algis R Korzonas)
Malt Mill Motorization (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
RE: Extra Yeast Package/Yeast Lag Time/Ringwood? (MClarke950)
Water Chemistry (BRIAN KEITH GEIGER)
Bottle Labeling, Recipe Request (CPTFio)
to rouse or not to rouse ("Sharon A. Ritter")
Zinc/Galvanized steel ("Philip Gravel")
Removing labels with TSP (Eric Palmer)
Malt Diastase/Infected Starters (Kirk R Fleming)
Boiling, Maths and Cleaning (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
Lack of body (Tim Hawkins)
all-grain carbonation (WattsBrew)
Needed:Thermodynamic wizards ("Frederick L. Pauly")
Rambelings..... (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 )
Re: Minikeg CO2 (Gary Novosel)
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:35:15 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Yeast Starters Revisited...
In HBD 1825 Dan McConnell talked about yeast and nasties in
starters. Though my starters and slants - my entire yeast ranch
(save one unfortunate incident involving a frozen thermostat
capillary tube) - is very successful, I want to do the BEST I
possibly can to ensure the yeasts' dominance in the wort environment
upon pitching. And I'd also like to experience a few of my brews
with the lighter metabolic soup that comes from proper pitching
rates. Therefor, I'm hoping Dan can expand on a few things stated in
his post.
That done with, my supplication:
o I usually pitch from a 1.5 l starter, from a 400 ml starter,
from a 35 ml starter from an inoculation look that has touched
greatness in my slant. In his posting, Dan states that "1L is an
underpitch for a 5 gal batch". I buy this as my lag time is not
as short as I'd like (eventually would like to get to a few
hours lag, but from my starter; not from dregs). What is
considered adequate for a 5 gallon batch? Perhaps a liter/
gallon expression would be most helpful to those who do 6.5 and
7 gallon batches. Also, when we say 1L, are we referring to a
one liter starter, or a one liter yeast cake?
o What should be the indication that it is time to step up. I
usually step up immediately (immediately is a relative term)
following high kraeusen in the preceding step. Is this ok?
o Is there a good (read: inexpensive) reference on yeasts that
includes identification info? With pictures so I can compare
what I see under the scope to known varieties (or am I all wet
with that approach)?
That's it! Can you enlighten us one more time, Dan? Sure would be
appreciated!
Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock | "Drink all you want - I'll brew more!"
President, Brew-Master |
and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence
pbabcock at oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB
SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 10:18:13 MDT
From: birenboi at ataway.aptec.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Controling Diacetyl (WY1968)
I am going to do a split batch with Wyeast 1028 (London ale?)
and Wyeast 1968 (London ESB?). The 1968 (i think thats the number)
is known to pruduce A LOT of diacetyl. I like diacetyl, but not
a ton of it. How does one control diacetyl levels in the finished
beer?
I have some guesses at factors which may effect diacetyl levels,
but I do not know in which direction these techniques will drive
diacetyl in the finished beer. Please provide any advice you can
ASAP ( I pitch in saturday!!! )
1) Pitching temeperature
2) Aeration (oxygenation)
3) Rousing yeast in primary
4) Racking time
5) Fermentation temperature profile
I am fermenting in a fridge, so I can control the fermentation temperature
profile.
Aaron Birenboim | birenboi at ataway.aptec.com | Personal :
ATA | http://www.aptec.com/aaron/ | mole at netcom.com
1900 Randolph Rd. SE | |
ABQ, NM 87106 | (505) 247-8371 FAX 768-1379 |
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 13:13:26 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: RE Lauter Tuns - a newbee point
In #1825, Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca>Subject asks re Mash/Lauter-Tun
design:
>I make 5 gallon batches. Are the large rectangular coolers ok for this
>size
>or would the 5 gallon Gott, cylindrical style be better?
>(Note: I have a rectangular one already.
I was ready to buy a Gott because it should make it a no-brainer to
maintain temp. What was pointed out to me that I had *not* thought through
is that, by using a cooler for a mash tun, I would be giving up the ability
to raise mash temp "easily" (eg by turning up the heat) - with the
exception of what I think is called the Easy Masher (tm or whatever). In
my never-done-a-full-mash mind, that meant mostly decoction mashing; which
I am not willing to deal with as yet. Thus, I'm sticking with partial
mashing :-( till I can organize a keg-cutting expedition to locate a
large-enough kettle.
May not be an issue for Dave, but perhaps for others. Twas an eye opener
for me. FYI.
-Tim
timf at relay.com
Beers me
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 13:26:49 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: RE 60 min boil time
In #1825, rich.adam at mayo.edu (Adam Rich) writes:
>On a related note, why is it bad to boil the wort for more then 60
>minutes when makeing an extract-based beer? When makeing lighter ales
>would I be well-advised to boil for only 30 minutes?
Says whom? Much of what I have learned (and most of that from HBD, thank
you :-) says that 60 mins is a minimum boil time. In fact, I'm now boiling
everything average-aleish for 75 minutes. No hops added for the first 15
mins, then add them and do the hr boil. I suppose that for a light color
target one might want to shorten the boil to avoid darkening the beer?
-Tim
timf at relay.com
Beers me (please)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 14:11:48 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: RE BR Malt Mill
Sorry 'bout this post, but couldnt contact Joe directly...
>Brewer's Resource Mill
> Just got myself one of these jobbies. Anyone wanna write me and swap
> gossip about roller settings?
Why not call BR and ask? they should (or had better, anyway) have some
advice.
I dont have one but have been considering one. Would you mind emailing me
(or posting to HBD) re results after a batch or 3?
-Tim
timf at relay.com
Vienna, VA, USA, EARTH, etc.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:56:07 -0400
From: jbosh at cais.cais.com (Jeff Bosh)
Subject: Three Piece Airlock
I have a plastic carboy and three piece airlock. I frequently find that my
fermentations must be so vigorous and so quick that I never see any pressure
in the airlock. (ie must be happening while I am sleeping). Should my
"bloop, blooping" last more that 8 hours, or should I really try to look and
see if I have a leak in the plastic carboy, or am I "worrying" too much. So
far the beer has been good. Please post me personnally if you wish.
Jeff Bosh
jbosh at cais.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 13:15 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: 1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition
1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition
When: Saturday, November 18th, 1995
Where: Iowa City, Iowa
Entry Deadline: November 10th, 1995
The Honorable Iowa River Society of Talented Yeastmasters (THIRSTY) is
holding its second homebrew competition. This year, we are reducing the
entry fees ($4.50 per entry for 1-3 entries or $3.50 per entry for 4 or
more entries), are offering more prizes (Best of Show Beer, Best of Show
Mead, and Best of Homebrew--a category judged solely on overall
drinkability, no AHA guidelines!), and are planning a BJCP exam the day
after the competition. And, we still request only two bottles of your
brew!
Ribbons will be awarded for each category and prizes (up to $75 worth) will
be given for Best of ... winners (9 in all). All entries will be judged by
BJCP judges.
For entry and/or judging information and forms, contact Dave Schinker at
319-523-2314 or Ed Wolfe at wolfe at act-12-po.act.org.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:01:13 -0600
From: wa5dxp at mail.sstar.com (Jim Overstreet)
Subject: Hawaiian Ale
I happend to be in Honolulu over Labor Day, and had a chance to taste a new
Hawaiian beer, Aili Ale. Very good, a pale ale on the order of Sierra Nevada,
although darker, highly hopped, very good. It's hard to find, and was told
they don't make too much of it.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:13:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: sprmario at netcom.com (Mario Robaina)
Subject: RE: Starters
Alex Sessions asks about whether the beasties we are trying to avoid in
making starters may in fact get to the starters also. A few people have
responded, but I wanted to add a couple of possibilities that might help
explain why starters work:
(1) I have found that I am able to be much more sanitary in preparing a
starter than in preparing an entire batch: because of the smaller volume
invovled, starter wort spends less time in contact with the (contaminant
full) air, and I take the precaution of doing such things as flaming the
lip of the starter bottle.
(2) Perhaps more importantly, you have to think of these things in
volumes. The average number of cells in a yeast pack are not really
adequate to get a 5 gallon batch going quickly, but are more than enough
to get an 18 oz. starter going in a hurry. Sure, a few beasties may land
in your starter, but it's not as important when so much yeast is pitched
relative to the volume of the starter. Think of it this way: pitching a
packet of yeast to 18 oz is something like pitching 1 qt. of yeast to a 5
gallon batch (pure speculation, but the ratio is indeed a lot higher). With
such high ratios (yeast to wort), the beasties don't have a chance.
-John
(wearing an outfit that makes him look an awful lot like sprmario at netcom.com)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 15:33:23 EDT
From: rich.byrnes at e-mail.com
Subject: More chillin stories...
THIS IS A CORPORATE DOCUMENT - FOLLOW RECORDS MANAGEMENT POLICY
FROM: Rich Byrnes
Subject: More chillin stories...
Question for the collective, is my beer ruined? I had a brainfart the last
time I was in Home-Depot and bought an industrial paint stirrer, the kind that
is 3.5 feet tall with a fluted impeller device at the bottom, and locks into
a drill. Anyways, using my trusty 50' immersion chiller, I waited til my wort
was below 160F (but yes, I threw it in the boiling wort to sterilize it first)
and fired it up, the results were magnificant and twofold, first the whirlpool
forced the wort through (yes through, I wired my wort chiller with a gap
between every coil) my coils and cooled it quicker, second the whirlpool laid
all the hops and break on the bottom and thirdly (oops, did I say only two
benifits to this?) I occasionally brought the impeller above the surface to
whip air into the cooling wort, I had a layer of foam on top that hop leaves
were floating on, what a sight. Anyways, this Fat-Tire clone I made was
krausening within 4 hours (used a quart starter of 1214, and a drilled copper
racking tube to induce even more air into the wort)
Now, can anyone see a problem using this device? It was under $10 and if
there's not a procedural problem, I think $10 well spent!
NO PRIVATE E-MAIL RESPONSES, THIS IS WAY TOO IMPORTANT, well, maybe not,
but this should be of interest to everyone. I'll summarize responses
if I do get private E-mail.
TIA!
Rich Byrnes
Founder Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
Ignore the next few lines, I usually do!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.)
Rich.Byrnes at E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:14:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson at beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Subject: No Fat Milk for Labels
There have been several recommendations to use WHOLE milk to stick
on labels. I thought I would mention that I've been using a
saucer of no-fat milk to stick on labels for two years. I was
guessing that it was the protein that was acting as the glue
and the fat just increased the chances of becoming smelly. I
think this guess turned out to be correct, or at least the
labels stay on until I dunk the bottles in water. Try it out.
Kyle
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 16:20:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil>
Subject: Stoudt's Oktoberfest ticket
**********PHILLY AREA INTEREST ONLY***********
I've got an extra ticket to the Stoudt's Oktoberfest beer extravaganza on
Saturday Sept. 23rd (7-11pm show) in Adamstown, PA. I believe it's now
sold out.
I'll trade it for a 12'er of good brew. Mike
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 13:15:18 PDT
From: bill_cole at ariel.com (Billy Cole)
Subject: Saving used yeast
I have a question for all of you brewing black belts.
I have brewed about 5 batches of partial grain brews already. Each time I
clean out my primary tub, I toss a gazillion yeasties down the drain. I
would like to save them. I currently have a batch of oatmeal stout in its
primary fermentation right now. I see about a 3 inch sediment on the bottom
of the fermentation tub. I figure I'll bottle the brew next week sometime
and will brew again in about 2 or 3 weeks. What would be the best way for me
to save the yeast I have now and reuse it when I brew again? Thanks in advance.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 16:32:05 -0400
From: lconrad at apollo.hp.com
Subject: Gott cooler size...
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca>
My question is: Is the 5 gallon size ok? I'd like
to minimize the cost and the space requirements. Will the 5 gallon size
greatly limit the beer types I wish to make (i.e. will high gravity brews
be impossible?) BTW, I brew 5 gallon batches.
Dave Riedel
I bought a 5 gallon cooler and used it for several years for my all-grain
batches. I don't do a lot of high-gravity brewing, so as long as I was only
making 5 gallon batches, I was fine with the 5 gallon cooler. I am in the
process of upgrading to the 10 gallon size, because I am now making 6 gallon
batches (because I keg in 3 gallon kegs, so it made sense), and I find that
even 12 pounds of grain (which is what I use to make 6 gallons of pale ale) is
tight in my 5 gallon cooler setup.
The 10 gallon cooler is useful to have around, even though I haven't brewed
with it yet. The 5 gallon cooler is a good way to carry a 3 gallon keg to a
party, but if you use the 10 gallon cooler you can carry both the keg and the
food you are bringing.
Laura
Snail Mail: ------- Laura Conrad
Hewlett-Packard Co. | / Phone: (508) 436-4243
300 Apollo Drive | / Internet: lconrad at apollo.hp.com
Chelmsford, Ma 01824 | /___ Mail stop: chr-01-fo
|_______ Fax: (508) 436-5117
--------
Laura
Snail Mail: ------- Laura Conrad
Hewlett-Packard Co. | / Phone: (508) 436-4243
300 Apollo Drive | / Internet: lconrad at apollo.hp.com
Chelmsford, Ma 01824 | /___ Mail stop: chr-01-fo
|_______ Fax: (508) 436-5117
--------
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 95 16:50:11 MDT
From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net
Subject: St. Patrick's counterpoint
A counterpoint to Jay Reeves post about poor service from St. Pat's. I
have done business with St. Pat's for about 3 years now (living in
Huntsville the first year, then in Orlando, and now Huntersville, NC) and
have never, ever had a single problem with them. My orders have always
been processed quickly and accurately and delivered in good shape - on
time. Lynne carries many items that I can't get locally (even living 12
miles north of Alternative Beverage) and her prices often beat local
prices, shipping included. A little while back, I was in a similar
situation to Jay's. An upcoming weekend with time for brewing and I needed
supplies. I ordered from Lynne on a Tuesday and told her that I needed it
by Friday to brew with on the weekend. I got it on Thursday. I don't mean
to belittle Jay's experience, he certainly has a legitimate gripe, but I
wish to point out that St. Pat's does not normally do business this way (in
my experience anyway). Bad experiences almost always get communicated
while good ones seldom do. Just another data point.
--
Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com
"The world is a toy if you'll just stay a boy. You can spin it again and
again..."
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 14:11 PDT
From: Pat Loughery <patl at isc-br.isc-br.com>
Subject: Thomas Kemper White - true to style?
I recently found that my local (northern Idaho) grocery store is stocking a
few Portland Brewing Co's beers, and a couple new Thomas Kemper beers. I'm
convinced that the recent stocking of GOOD beer is because I'm buying their
good stuff and forcing them to expand past Weinhardt's as their "craft" beer...
I picked up a sixpack of Thomas Kemper's White, a spiced wit with curacao
oranges and the whole nine yards. The neck label even gives kudos to Mr.
Celis for reviving the Belgian styles in the US in the last decade.
I'm curious - how close is this beer to a good Belgian Wit? It's a good
beer, but more bland than I expected it to be.
- -----
Pat Loughery - Olivetti North America Spokane, WA w:(509)921-2616
<patl at mail.spk.olivetti.com or patl at mom.isc-br.com>
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 17:38:19 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: Beginner's question - proiblem w/starters
Until now, I have been pitching yeast without stepping it up. I
have had good results - fast starts - probably due in part to
my warm basement (70F). I want to start using starters, and have
twice tried to make one. In each case I used wort made of DME
with a pinch of yeast nutrients added. Gravity was about 1.050
in both cases. One I used a bit of RTP liquid London Ale Yeast,
and the other time I used the dregs of a bottle of my own homebrew.
In both cases, after a lag of about 12 hours I started to see some
bubbles. Both times it looked as though the starter was going to
take off, and both times it pooped out. I aerated both starters
well (I think), and re-aerated them when activity slowed - to
no avail. What am I doing wrong?
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 08:09:17 +1000
From: david.draper at mq.edu.au (Dave Draper)
Subject: HSA during sparging / Post vs. Email
Dear Friends, I tried sending this once but it ended up in bitbucket
somewhere--three days with no automagical response. So, here we go again...
The recent posts on peaking of flavor have prompted some concerns about my
setup. I am wondering if my procedures are unduly risking HSA, particularly
during sparging. Briefly, here is my setup: I sparge in a 25-litre plastic
fermenter retired from active service; it has a spigot in the bottom into
which I fit my postmodern-sculpted hacksawed copper manifold. Because my
current situation is such that my maximum mash mass (I love alliteration) is
about 4 kg, the mash + sweet wort at the beginning of the sparging process
comes to only about half the depth of the tun--that is, the tun is about
half full at the start. Thus there is about 25-30 cm (about a foot) of air
between the top of my wort + mash bed and the lip of the bin.
The first possible source of oxidation is when I dump the goods into the
sparging bin. It's at mashout temp, 77 C, and splashes like mad. I can
think of lots of ways to avoid this; however most of the texts I've seen
recommend doing just this. For example, see Miller's partial-mash
description: the wort drops from a collander into the brewkettle quite a
ways below. Next, during recirculation I pour the first runnings back into
the top of the bin onto an inverted saucer--more splashing. I can't reach
in to the bin with my pitcher, so it pours from the 25-30 cm height
mentioned above. Eventually this is not a concern any longer, once I am
adding sparge water and not cloudy wort; typically my runoff is clear after
about 4 litres (usually just as the grain bed becomes visible). The sweet
wort runs through a short length of tubing into the kettle so there's no
worries there.
So, what do others do? I can envision a few things: scoop the mash into the
bin rather than dumping it. Ladle the first runnings back into the bin
rather than pouring it. Is this common practice with You Out There? Is the
amount of oxidation likely to occur from these sources enough to worry
about? The motivating observation here is that my beers tend to peak young,
at around a month, and are noticeably "old" tasting at 4+ (I rarely brew at
OGs > 1065)--some sherry notes, not exactly cardboard, but definitely over
the hill. I, ahem, never manage to keep a batch around any longer than
that, I'm afraid. Thanks for any input.
******
Bruce Taber de-lurked to comment on the relative merits of email
communication and public posting in response to questions. He made the
valid point that many people have similar questions to those posted, and
that public responses would benefit these folks. There is a flip side,
though, and that is that the digest could quickly become little more than a
FAQ-answering forum--and that is what we have FAQ files for. The example of
calculating extract efficiency that Bruce mentioned is a classic, although
to be fair, the other two (lactic bugs in grain husks, foaming problems in
kegging setups) are less commonly addressed. I do not have a hard and fast
answer here--I know firsthand that some of the best value of the digest
comes from private communication prompted by a public post. I would
encourage those left unsatisfied by the level of public response to keep a
little notebook or something of things that come up in which you share an
interest--if not enough gets posted in the next few issues, then email the
person who asked and ask them to share what they have gotten in the way of
replies. Frankly, I think most people who request info and get it privately
are pretty conscientious about posting summaries, but others clearly see it
differently. Bruce, I'm not singling you out, your point is well taken; but
surely we've all seen cases where it seems like everyone is answering the
same question all at once. For example, does *anyone* really want to hear
any more about my thermometer??? :-}
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"Hops away! The more the better." ---Roger Deschner
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
...I'm not from here, I just live here...
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 14:55:46 -0700
From: kimel at moscow.com (Kevin Imel)
Subject: scum skimming report / labels
Hello everyone!
Awhile back I asked for comments on skimming the scum that forms during a
boil and since most of the replies were via private e-mail I thought I would
post the results. A hearty thank you to all that took the time to reply
(whose names I have summarily lost/forgotten).
There seem to be two schools of thought here: The first is that skimming
the scum is a good thing because it helps prevent those nasty boilovers as
well as providing you with something to do while waiting for the long boil
to get done and over with. This seems to be the predominant school of thought.
The second school seems to feel that skimming the scum is at best a waste of
time and at worst is removing some of the head forming/retention stuff. One
respondent seemed to think that all the scum stuff (techical term) would
eventually drop out in the trub.
Me, I think I will continue to skim the scum if for no other reason than it
gives me something to do while watching the pot.
- ------
RE: Labels and the sticking on thereof. Will this thread never die?
Anyway, my 2 cents worth follows:
I have tried everything from glue sticks to milk to flour-water paste. My
favorite to date is simply a diluted Elmer's white glue. I can't give you a
specific dilution factor but this stuff works great and comes off after a
quick soak in warm water.
For labels themselves I just set them up in word for windows, run them off
on white paper and then wander down to the local photocopy place and pick
out a nice color of paper. Most shops will even cut them out for you if you
want.
Cheers!
Kevin
___________________________________________________________________
Kevin Imel The only way to truely fail is
kimel at moscow.com to fail to try.
kimel at vetmed.wsu.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 13:46:21 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: pitch timing
Chris writes:
> When using starters, is it better to pitch settled slurry (sans "beer") or
>to pitch the whole solution at high kreusen? How do you time these things so
>you can plan on brewing when you want to, rather than being at the mercy of an
>agenda set by one-celled organisms?
It is better to allow the starter to ferment out and just pitch the settling
or settled-out slurry. The reason is that you want the yeast to have the
highest level of glycogen. At high kraeusen, their glycogen level is lowest
whereas just as fermentation is ending, their glycogen level is highest.
I've posted on this numerous times and there is more detail (including
technical references) in those previous posts so just search the archives for
"pitch timing" I believe.
Timing is an interesting dilemma. If you wait too long (I would guess two
days (at room temperature) after settling is too long) the yeast begin to
deplete their glycogen just to sustain themselves. The best way to time the
starters is to know your yeast and be familiar with the condition in which
you get it (i.e. stick with one supplier). Some strains take longer to ferment
the starter out than others, so you just have to take good notes and refer
back to them when you are planning to brew. What if you *do* wait "too long?"
You have a choice: 1) feed the yeast again (pour off some or all of the spent
wort and add more fresh wort) or 2) just pitch it and don't worry about it.
Which you choose depends on how important this batch is (is it for an important
competition?) and how long past settling has the starter been sitting. You
can slow down the yeast if you see that they will be finishing the starter
before you are ready to brew: cool it down. However, remember that you cannot
just toss it in a 40F fridge from a 75F room... you need to cool it down
slowly.
Now a question for the microbiologists: Yes, we know that sudden cooling
can shock yeast... but what about rather fast warming? Can we take that yeast
starter out of the 40F fridge and let it warm up to 65F in a few hours without
shocking/damaging/insulting the yeast?
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 17:10:53 -0600
From: homebrew at infomagic.com (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
Subject: Malt Mill Motorization
>To: Reply
>From: homebrew at infomagic.com (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
>Subject: Malt Mill Motorization
>
>Hey Everyone,
>Last week some of you were discussing how to motorize the malt mill. I
missed the results since my hard drive died. If someone has that info and
would like to share, I would be very interested. A global post, or a
personal E-Mail would be great! Thanks Jeff
>
Jeff Handley ** homebrew at infomagic.com
Homebrewers Outpost-Flagstaff, Arizona
http://www.homebrewers.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 19:43:42 -0400
From: MClarke950 at aol.com
Subject: RE: Extra Yeast Package/Yeast Lag Time/Ringwood?
Chris Strickland cstrick at iu.net asked:
>Question, to speed up the fermentation start, would using two Wyeast pack to
>make two starters speed up the initial fermentation start time. Currently
>the first batch takes about 48 hours to start (even with a starter). I'm
>thinking that two starters might take less than 24 hours. It's only $6 and
>and considering I can reuse the yeast at least five more times, that's only
>a $1 per batch.
I don't think it would hurt, but a better plan is to buy the smak-pak a week
(or more)
ahead of time and grow it in size. You know create a normal starter, let it
settle,
then a couple of nights before brewing start a larger starter, pour off the
"beer" from
the primary starter and then pitch yeast into the second, larger starter.
Your yeast
will be active and you'll have a large number of cells. I realise this is a
little vague,
the second starter should be the same SG as the primary starter but twice the
volume (ie the primary = pint, secondary = quart). This also gives you some
control
over the yeast being ready when you need it. Trying to make a starter the
night
before brewing is asking for trouble (like you got a pak that has little or
no viable
yeast in it). If this happened a week ahead of time, you still have time to
purchase
another one.
Question: How does the YEASTLAB Ringwood yeast compare to the WYEAST
London ESB Yeast? I've never been to one of these pubs so I have no idea
what
the profile is like.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike Clarke
Seattle, WA. USA
eMail: MClarke950 at aol.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 20:41:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: BRIAN KEITH GEIGER <bkg6068 at email.unc.edu>
Subject: Water Chemistry
I am switching from extract to all-grain brewing. Does anyone know of
software, commercial or otherwise, that would allow me to
calculate water chemistry on a computer? Thanks. - brian geiger
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 20:52:42 -0400
From: CPTFio at aol.com
Subject: Bottle Labeling, Recipe Request
My approach to labeling is simple, if crude. I use little "Post It"
all-purpose labels that are 1/2" by 3/4". They come in four colors: white,
yellow, green and red, and a pack of 384 labels costs about $2.00. I use them
on my bottle caps. Though they are small, they have enough room for an
abbreviated brew name and a bottling date. The advantages: Clean and very
quick application, and you don't have to remove them from bottles.
Disadvantages: You have to write out each label, and they lack aesthetic
charm. But never judge a beer by it's label. . .
Now for a recipe request: Sam Adams Boston Lager. I am a very novice
brewer, and I use malt extracts with some grains boiled in. Does anyone have
a recipe that approximates this tasty beer? Thanks in advance!
Paul Fiorino
CPTFio at aol.com
Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Sep 95 21:09:25 EDT
From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at compuserve.com>
Subject: to rouse or not to rouse
After one year of brewing and 14 batches, I've been able to duplicate something
for the first time (and it's not an award winning beer!)! It has to do with
Wyeast #1098. I've used it twice in the same pale ale recipe and got the same
results. The yeast forms a rocky head within 12 hours, ferments vigorously for
24-36 hours (temp at 66-68 degrees), the head drops as fast as it appeared, and
fermentation slows to a point where it appears time to rack to a secondary
fermenter (airlock bubbles once every minute or so). However, the gravity is
still 6 to 8 points higher than it should finish at. There's no way to make up
that much fermentation ground in the secondary. So, I've been thinking that
maybe the yeast settles out too quickly and I should gently rock the fermenter
to stir that yeast out of its slumber. (I've ruled out a lack of oxygen in the
wort as a cause because I go overboard with aeration and I never have this
problem with other Wyeast strains I've used). Rousing it in this manner would
not introduce oxygen because the system has been closed since the start of
fermentation. Any ideas about rousing and its possible benefits or risks?
Anyone else have a similar experience with 1098? Is anyone from Wyeast online
to pose these kind of questions direct?
Dan Ritter, 102446.3717 at compuserve.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:06:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Philip Gravel" <pgravel at mcs.com>
Subject: Zinc/Galvanized steel
===> John Palmer provides some information regarding zinc:
>I don't know if the lemonade in galvanized garbage cans is urban legend or
>not, but I can say that if a galvanization process incorporates any Cadmium
>into the melt then yes you will be dead meat. Plain zinc galvanization re.
>toxicity I dont have any data on. I would avoid it myself since I dont know
>more about it.
I'd like to add to what John said. Zinc is a rather chemically active
metal. It will oxidize much more readily than other metals. That's
how it protects iron in galvanizing -- it reacts in preference to iron.
In acidic solutions (pH < 7) such as lemonade or wort, zinc will react:
2 Zn + 4 H+ + O2 ----> 2 Zn(2+) + 2 H2O
I can't speak to the toxicity of zinc, but at the very least a lot of
zinc salts will end up in solution and will likely give the liquid a
metallic taste. Therefore, I would avoid using galvanized steel for
anything that comes into contact with wort. I would recommend using
relatively non-reactive metals -- stainless steel, brass, copper,
chrome, aluminum, etc.
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 21:33:05 PDT
From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: Removing labels with TSP
With all this talk about removing labels, I haven't heard anything
about TSP (trisodium phosphate). It's cheap, available at paint
and hardware stores and works great plus no foul ammonia odor.
I use it in very heavy concentrations (maybe heaver than I need), using
at least a cup for probably 10 gal. of VERY hot water plus a good measure
of bleach just for sanitization. Stir thoroughly to dissolve.
If soaked overnight, the labels literly float off with no scraping!
The normal use for this stuff is for cleaning paint brushes and
prepping walls or wood trim prior to repainting. It's ok on hands
without gloves if you don't mind losing a few spare skin cells.
I never wear gloves but instructions say to do so.
Eric
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 22:40:40 -0600
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Malt Diastase/Infected Starters
While at the 'scientific supply' house this pm I bought a 100g bottle of
malt diastase powder. I boiled some rice for 30-40 min, chilled to 150F
and mixed in a total of about 25g of the diastase over a 30 min period.
After 45 min of this silly exercise, iodine still showed deep purple.
Why was there no conversion? Prior to purchase I looked up malt diastase
in the Mercx (or similar) and the narrative there sure indicated it was
an enzyme extract of malted barley.
A few HBDs back someone mentioned his/her starters always seemed to be
infected, and reported a ring around the inside of the bottle and a foul
odor (as I recall). I wanted to mention it at the time, and since I've
seen no response to that post I'll do so now: there is nothing unusual
about a deposit of scum in the starter bottle, nor is aroma really a
sufficient indicator of a bad starter.
The inside of your starter bottle will generally look about as bad as
your primary fermenter, and the aroma from some yeasts, as you know,
can be pretty foul (1098 comes to mind). Without more details regarding
the exact procedure, I'd say that unless you rinsed with tapwater
(unboiled/sanitized), chances are against that many starters all being bad.
KRF Colorado Springs
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 21:20:57 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Boiling, Maths and Cleaning
Algis Korzonas posted that he doesn't like math and thermodynamics much--ME TOO
MATE!
Its laborous and easy to stuff up but I post it to better understand and I know
there are highly qualified thermodynamic engineers in the collective who will
correct mistakes.
I get much of my technical info from Alfa Laval who spend millions on research
and publish it willy nilly. They are so big that their only competition already
knows the technology, they don't seem to mind who else gets the info.
They sparge exactly to final volume and waste nothing. They do it by simply
recyling the weak runnings. The boil is a volume adjustment because they have
injected steam to rapidly heat. They boil most of the time at 80C and adjust
about 5% volume.
They even sparge the hot break for alpha acids! I suggest that DMS is easily
carried away by a 5% reduction. For a good hot break, the mechanical vibration
of a *vigourous* boil is supplied by the conical heating surface and not by
supplying a lot of heat to *rapidly* boil. Their low pressure/low temp boil is
*I think*, an attempt to avoid caramelization and melanoiden reactions, but the
jury is still out on that as they didn't say.
Cleaning Counterflow Tubes
The sinker/pullthruogh didn't work on my old one because the tube was too long
and I kinked it out of round. I also propell the sinker with water. Its not
easy I admit but I like too drag things through.
Another technique that works is propelling a few small natural sanitary sponges
down the tube with water. If you are not a woman, ask one, I did!
Thanks for the responses, Jim and Algis, any more?
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 06:52:31 PDT
From: Tim Hawkins <hawkins at arlut.utexas.edu>
Subject: Lack of body
I am a new homebrewer and I have a problem with my latest (2nd)
batch of beer. It is a nut brown ale and it seems to have a
wonderful taste, but has no body. It's odd, because it has a strong taste,
but at the same time tastes watery. The OG was about 1.055 and the final
was about 1.011, which was about right. I got the ingredients (extract) and
the recipe from St. Pats here in Austin (very convenient), so I trust them.
My only thought is that after cooling the wort, I racked it into a carboy
and let it settle overnight before racking it into a fermenter and pitching
the yeast, trying to siphon the wort off the break. May I have lost too
much wort in the break, even though the OG was correct ? If anyone
has an idea, please let me know, I'd like to correct it before my next batch.
-Tim
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:06:59 -0400
From: WattsBrew at aol.com
Subject: all-grain carbonation
I recently brewed my first batch of all grain (Pale Ale) and I think it came
out pretty good. But that is not my problem. I brewed up a 10 gallon batch
and after fermentation I kegged it in two 5-gallon corny kegs. Force
carbonated both with 35 lbs overnight (same procedure I always use), released
the head pressure on both and started drinking the first, which was perfectly
carbonated and tasted real hoppy. When I came to the second keg three weeks
later, I discovered that it was pretty flat so I forced it again. After
releasing the head pressure I discovered this kegs hop flavor had mellowed
some but the carbonation seems higher. The beer pours half a glass of thick
creamy head that stays for a long time. I love the taste but the foam can be
annoying. I have lowered my gas pressure to about 2 lbs and it still foams
up every time. Does anyone out there have a clue as to the cause.
TIA, Bill Watt (wattsbrew at aol.com)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:14:03 -0400
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu>
Subject: Needed:Thermodynamic wizards
I plan to build an immersion chiller for 10 gallon batches using
60 feet of copper coil, 3/8 or 1/2 inch. Would any one have a
suggestion for the best lengths of the coils if I plan on having
two, the first coil would be in an ice bath, the second would be
in the kettle.
Thanks
Rick
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 9:05:14 EDT
From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbdcom.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: Rambelings.....
Everybody seems concerned over labels! Back... Way back.... When I
bottled, I never labeled all the bottles. Only the ones to give as
gifts, or to mark the case. Never combined batches in the same case.
For Quick, easy labels.... do 'em on the pc, trim the excess off (4
or so to a page) and tape (scotch type) them to the bottles. It's
quick, easy, looks ok (providing not too much tape is applied) and
easy to remove.
The entire bottling process is a PITA! I highly recommend kegging. One
label to do (or 2 since I went to 10 gal batches). Plus, now that
my beers are better than the average bears!, I don't give them away.
Sure, you can have some if you come over.... but i'm not going out of my
way to give it to you!
One last note on stubborn label removal.... I have found that soaking the
bottles in a bucket of water with some laundry soap in it will remove
any and all labels! Quickly and easily. In fact, most float off
w/out any effort on my.... your part!
Ever notice how the HBD goes in one big circle..??? I've only been on
this thing for ..... golly, a year and a half now, and everything comes
back around...... !!!!
Boil your yeast before making a starter!!! It keeps all the nasties out!
Kevin
North East, MD
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 07:22:53 -0500
From: offsite at mindspring.com (Gary Novosel)
Subject: Re: Minikeg CO2
There is also an air pump available for those minikegs. I have had one mini
expand without blowing the plug due to overpriming. I guess I need to be
more exact in my priming.
Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1827, 09/09/95