HOMEBREW Digest #1828 Mon 11 September 1995

Digest #1827 Digest #1829

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  My pumpkin mash from hell (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  Mellanoids, diluting HG brews, etc (Steven Lichtenberg)
  St. Pats/Gadgets/Misc. ("Edmund C. Hack")
  High temp ferment question (Chris Cooper)
  Microbrewery Opinions? ("Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556")
  Hunter Zeners ("Thomas W. Ausfeld")
  More on labels (John DeCarlo              )
  Open Letter from Wyeast (Jeff Frane)
  Thoughts on zinc & copper ("Robert Waddell")
  RE: Yeast sludge and yeast starters (Mario Robaina)
  yeast starters (Robert G. Parker)
  Apology: RE "US" HBD (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
  Kasteel/bottleSoaking/fruit&3068/lautertun design/long boil/pitch timing (Algis R Korzonas)
  Lazy man's wheat (Matt_K)
  Malt vinegar ("James Giacalone")
  Keg Modification Question (Rich Larsen)
  Volatiles removal/High temperature boils (Philip Gravel)
  Paint Stirrers (Brian Geiger)
  Working with Agar Slants (SRCINQ)
  Re: boil times (RobHaiber)
  Re: Kemper Wit Q (RobHaiber)
  Temperature increases (Jeff Stampes)
  Liene's ICE?!/ Wyeast 1968 ("BARRON, GRAHAM LARS")
  Heating Gott mash/Aerating hot wort/Lack of body (Philip Gravel)
  priming sugar questions ("Alex R.N. Wetmore")
  MY LATEST BATCH (Ian Bishop)
  KEGGING (Ian Bishop)
  HOMEBREW DIGEST #1827 (SE (Ian Bishop)

****************************************************************** * POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** ################################################################# # # YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the # digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service # provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving # many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing # list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such # requests. # ################################################################# NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw! Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 09:34:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV> Subject: My pumpkin mash from hell Ed asked about pumpkin beer: >I am in search of other recipes/methods for pumpkin beer and would like >to hear other experiences with pumpkins. For some reason (I must have been sober) recently I decided to try a pumpkin ale - Papazian's recipe in THBC. The recipe called for a whole pumpkin (cooked), 6-row malt, and a protein rest. I decided to use canned pumpkin (Libby's 100% pumpkin), 2-row, and a single-step infusion. What a friggin' mess. I mash in a cooler with a copper manifold. I added the 11 lbs. of grain, 4 cans of pumpkin (7.2 lbs.) to the cooler (oops, I mean mash-tun). Then I added the strike water (about 1 - 1.25 quarts/ pound of grain). (The original recipe said to do the protein rest with just grain, then add the pumpkin and water to bring it to conversion temps.) It took me forever to stir this thick gook together and I lost alot of heat - I ended up ~140F when I was shooting for mid 150's. Maybe it would have worked better if I added the grain/gook mixture to the water.? O.K. - so I managed to raise the temp to the upper 140's with boiling water infusions over the next 1 - 1.5 hours (don't ask). I mashed for a good 1.5 - 2 hours cuz of the lower temps. I was feeling a bit better as I got to the sparge, it cleared up nicely with about 3 qts. recirculated. Then my sparge stuck (the first time). At this point I was thinking "Maybe there was a *reason* to use 6-row?" - more husk maybe? I don't know. So I scooped out all 18 lbs of slop, and clean/reassemble my manifold, and scoop all 18 lbs. of slop back into the cooler (oops, I mean lauter-tun). I'm getting pretty good at this, as my last batch stuck also. I collected maybe another gallon over the next half hour and the sparge stuck again. Now I was cussing and swearing and promising to give up brewing altogether. I aerated the hell out of the mash while scooping out the mash again - I also tried sucking on the hose to get the sparge going (I wasn't thinking all that clearly). I managed to finish sparging and was so pissed off I added a pound of extract. I don't know how people sparge with this pumpkin stuff in the mash. Any hints? How fermentable is pumpkin anyway? And how come 2 friggin' vanilla beans cost $6.50?!! My first and last pumpkin ale _is_ fermenting away very nicely, however. Good luck pumpkin brewers, - Jerry Cunningham Annapolis, MD p.s. I have 1 vanilla bean for sale, if anyone's interested ;*) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 09:35:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at inet.ttgva.com> Subject: Mellanoids, diluting HG brews, etc Greetings-- I have been following the discussion on high pressure boiling and mellanoid creation and thought I would comment. Before I started writing databases, I worked for many years as a chef and received degrees in both nutrition and culinary arts. In the process I had to study a great deal of food science. The browning reactions responsible for the cration of mellanoids is called a Maillard reaction and occurs in most cooking processes. This is the same reaction that causes toast to brown and grilled meats to obtain their characteristic color. The reaction is almost entirely dependent on temperature and time, the presence of oxygen will hasten the reaction some as well. This is the reason that food cooked in the microwave does not brown. I would then assume that bringing boiling wort to temps above boiling will in fact increase the reaction and the melanoid formation but could be controled (minimized?) by keeping the wort at this temperature for short periods of time. Of course, there are other reactions involved in boiling wort (protein coagulation DMS removal etc) that could be effected differently. On the subject of diluting high gravity beers to get lesser beers, I do this regularly with no problems. I have tried both fermenting at high gravity and doing high gravity boils and diluting before fermantation with much success. I prefer now to do the latter as it seems to give better head retention and body. I use this technique often to get two different beers out of one kettle. I can make a strong ale and a mild for example and still only have to do one mash and one boil. The one caveat I do have though is that you are spreading the flavors thinner in the diluted beer and have to compensate in the secondary by either dry hopping or adding some other flavoring (fruit etc). **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- **** O|~~| ------------ Steven Lichtenberg --------------- |~~|0 `--' ---------- steve at inet.ttgva.com ------------- `--' -------- Programmer/Analyst - TTG --------- ---------- Alexandria, VA ------------ ----------------------------------- ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 07:13:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack at crl.com> Subject: St. Pats/Gadgets/Misc. I have placed one order with St. Pats, for a Porter Kit and an immersion chiller. Ordered Tuesday, arrived Thursday, everything was correct. YMMV. (Yeah, I know I could have built a chiller for about $10 less, but I had to look at it this way: I have limited time to devote to brewing - I could have spent Sunday PM getting the parts and building the chiller, or I could have brewed a batch of Porter. No brainer.) The chiller works well and the Porter kit came out quite well. Good instructions, the specialty grains came in a grain bag, used Wyeast Irish Ale yeast, came with a sheet of the ingredients list for all their kits. A few new gadgets have arrived in town at the brew shops from Listermann and I'm looking for comments: First, a siphon starter - a little ball valve thing. Anyone used one of these? I used to use a similar-but-not-identical siphon starter in cleaning my aquarium, but it didn't work well. Second, a min-lauter tun/hopback. It is a 1 gal. or so food plastic pail with a Phalse bottom, tubing and clamp. It looks like it would hold a few pounds of grain for partial mash recipes. I'm doing partial grain batches rightr now, and sparging the grain in my colander suspended over a large pot is a real pain. This looks like it could make it a lot easier. BTW, to those of you who have not done partial mash brewing, try it. It doesn't take that much longer and the beer is much better. I use Miller's method - I put the grain and heated water in a large Dutch oven, put it in an oven preheated to 150 degrees and wait about an hour. The mash stabilizes at about 154 degrees. I put the whole mess into a colander, sparge with preheated water, recirculate a bit to clear the runnings, put the wort into the brewpot with the extract and go on with the boil. The difference in the quality of the beer is quite noticeable. I have made a couple of ESBs and American Pale Ales this way and get better head and lace, more complex flavors and a richer mouthfeel. My first pale ale was all extract and was OK, but the partial mash beer are a real notch up. Not as good as Bass, Anchor or Young's, but I'm getting there. Edmund Hack \ "The great prince issues commands, echack at crl.com \ Founds states, vests families with fiefs. Houston, TX \ Inferior people should not be employed."-regnaD kciN Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 11:14:33 -0400 From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: High temp ferment question Hello all, I have a question for the collective, I recently made a pale ale using Wyeast London Ale yeast and left on a bussiness trip for a week, when I returned I found my new brew fermenting at 78^F (my daughter had adjusted the A/C vent in my fermetation cellar, a.k.a. the down stairs john, because she thought it was too cold) and now I notice what I think are strong fussel overtones, I have since restored the flow of cold air to the room but I am wondering if there are any steps I can take after the fact to improve this brew's lot in life? Any suggestions? TIA! On another note, the recent labeling thread has missed another easy solution that I have been using for my last 30+ batches with great results. I print my labels 4, 6 or 8 per page using a laser printer on plain paper and make a simple glue from flour and warm water, dip the back of the label in the paste and adhere to bottle using a wet paper towel to smooth out the label and clean the bottle. These labels have lasted up to 10 months (that's as long as I have erver managed to keep a home brew around) and they come off cleanly with a little warm water. About 2 tablespoons of flour with enough water to make it soupy works great for. Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <-- ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 1995 09:17:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556" <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com> Subject: Microbrewery Opinions? Anyone heard of "The Alcatraz Brewing Company"? Its opening up soon in a new mall in Indy, touted as "a restaurant and microbrewery" with "brewing vessels visible through windows from the tables." I hate to get excited about something potentially lame. Info anyone? Dave in Indy From: BRADLEY DAVID A (MCVAX0::RC65036) To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com") cc: BRADLEY DAVID A (MCVAX0::RC65036) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 11:56:38 EST5EDT From: "Thomas W. Ausfeld" <TOM at sp1.dhmc.dartmouth.edu> Subject: Hunter Zeners Awhile back, there were people looking for the zeners in the Hunter temp control. I talked with a few suppliers to see if I can get some of these for some one else, which I did. Another supplier came through also, so I'm up to my eyeballs in 1N5359's. Actually only 25 but I don't have a Hunter. So.... If you need some, let me know and I'll send you some. Hoppy brewing!! (and cooling) Tom Ausfeld (TOM at SP1.dhmc.dartmouth.edu) Newbury, Vermont Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 12:07:55 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: More on labels Here is what the *really lazy* do. After all, bottling is already a pain. 1) Keep all the beer together in it's own cases right after bottling. 2) Write batch info on the caps of a quarter or so of the bottles. 3) Make some labels printed on a laser printer with plain paper. 4a) Just drink all your own beer and do nothing else. 4b) Give away the beer or have a party where you can't rely on the cap sitting on the beer, especially with champagne bottles. Use milk or glue stick to stick on some labels. 4c) Consolidate batches to save space and write the batch info on every cap first. Then you are ready to loop back to 4a or 4b. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 09:21:41 -0700 From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Open Letter from Wyeast >The following letter is being sent to the retailers who handle >Wyeast's yeast strains. > >Sept. 5, 1995 > >Dear Valued Customer, > >re: 3278 Yeast > >Please provide this notice to all customers of: Brewers Choice #3278B >Yeast. > >This name change reflects the fact that this yeast culture is a blend >of yeasts and not 100% of one particular strain. The product has not >changed; as many of you may know, certain Belgian beer styles require >more than one yeast to make a good beer. For several years we have >produced this blend, because using 100% of one yeast would make an >unapalatable beer. This item will remain available with a modified >label as indicated. > >We are sorry if this has caused any inconvenience. Please call or >write to us if you have any questions or comments. > >Sincerely, >Dave Logsdon > > Jeff Frane jfrane at teleport.com Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Sep 95 11:11:00 MDT From: "Robert Waddell" <V024971 at Tape.StorTek.Com> Subject: Thoughts on zinc & copper Hi, all: Some time ago someone asked about using a roll or two of pennies to weigh down a hop bag in a boil and hoped to gain some benefit from the copper. Someone else (sorry... don't remember names) responded that pennies were now made with a lot more zinc than copper nowdays, so the benefits would be negligable. I also seem to remember reading either a post or some literature by Maribeth Raines, Ph.D. from "Brewers Resource" that yeast need zinc to propagate to sufficiant numbers. So... wouldn't it make sense to just go ahead and use the pennies as a weight and a nutrient? Should we be putting a few in our yeast starters? (Sanitized, of course) Perhaps some of the metals people out there could determine the amount of zinc and copper in each penny and then figure out how much of each would be going into the wort at any given pH thereby determining how many pennies each batch would need for maximum propagation taking into account how much of each of these nutrients are already available in different types of grain. Maybe we could go back to the days of a REAL five cent glass of beer. #%^) Robert (long live the zinc thread) Waddell V024971 at tape.stortek.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT) From: sprmario at netcom.com (Mario Robaina) Subject: RE: Yeast sludge and yeast starters Someone asked about using yeast sludge for subsequent batches: I've had good luck re-using the same yeast 5-6 times, and have heard others have re-used up to 10 times without ill effects. Procedure I use: 1> I "drop" my ales a day or two into the ferment (rack the wildly fermenting beer, without aeration). This removes the beer and yeast from the trub. 2> At bottling or kegging time, I have a 1 gallon glass jug and funnel on hand, sanitized. 3> I rack the beer to the keg or bottling bucket, leaving a little beer behind (no more than usual: get as much as you can without sucking up too much muck). 4> Next, I swirl the stuff remaining in the carboy, so the yeast is suspended in what little beer is there, and transfer it to the jug. 5> I cover the jug with a sanitized piece of tin foil, before throwing the whole thing in the fridge; some prefer an airlock (if you do, be careful of suck-back as the air in the jug cools in the fridge). When I'm ready to brew again, I bring the yeast back up to room temp, swirl the jug and pitch the whole lot. Yeast can be safely stored this way for a couple of weeks (storing yeast under beer is very effective: yeast recovered from bottles can be brought back to life after many months in the bottle). If the yeast is stored this way any more than a couple of weeks, a starter would be a good idea. - -------------- Someone mentioned that pitching starters at high krausen is the best idea. I have heard mixed reports on this, and personally think it's better to pitch just after the yeast drops out of solution. Why? Rumor has it that as the sugar levels in wort get close to nil, yeast realize they're not going to have much left to eat and "store up", gorging themselves before settling out. Hence, when the yeast have just settled out on the bottom, they are likely to have the highest energy reserves. Then, when they are pitched, they will have the energy reserves to build-up a healthy colony in their new (larger) environment. Anyone want to back me on this? In any event, I have had success pitching starters just after the yeast settle. -John (or is it sprmari at netcom.com?) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:29:21 -0400 From: parker.242 at osu.edu (Robert G. Parker) Subject: yeast starters The question was raised about why yeast starters are beneficial since they increase the 'bad guys' just as they increase the yeast count. One reason is that there is significant potential (in fact it's inevitable) for introducing contaminants during wort handling prior to pitching. If there is a large yeast count from the starter with the (assumed) accompanying larger bacteria count, the additional contaminants from wort handling have a small effect on the yeast/contaminant ratio. With no starter built up, this ratio is significantly tipped in favor of contaminants by those introduced from wort handling. rob parker parker.242 at osu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:48:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk at usa.net> Subject: Apology: RE "US" HBD I recently polled this HBD and the UK HBD requesting info about how you ferment, etc. In that request for info I mentioned I had posted to the "US and UK HBDs". Well, one responder politely reminded me that this is not a forum limited to or set up for the primary or exclusive use of USA residents. Had I been a little more sensitive/thoughtful I might have distinguished this HBD with 'the hp.com-based HBD' or something like that. In any case, the damage is done, and if I offended anyone I sincerely apologize--it was unintentional. To all contributors/readers worldwide, I hope you'll not judge other USA residents by my stupid mistake! - -- Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 15:30:14 CDT From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Kasteel/bottleSoaking/fruit&3068/lautertun design/long boil/pitch timing Harlan writes: >Maybe someone out there knows what the crap was in the bottle of Kasteel >bier I had last night. The bottle was a champagne-type bottle (75cl) of the >Belgian Ale (Kasteel bier, biere du Chateau, Produce of Belgium), alcohol >11% vol., the date on the cork 8/93. As I poured the second glass, big >chunks of some species of gelatinous crap glopped out of the bottle, and Those chunks are mostly coagulated protein. All beers that are high in protein will eventually have some of that coagulate in them (although I've had some very old barleywines (which I'm sure have a lot of proteins in them) that were crystal clear). Proteins come in many different sizes -- perhaps (speculating now) if the brewer was not careful to break down the really big proteins, then the chances of having these goobers are higher. *** Don writes: > I must add my $0.02. I ALWAYS use computer printer labels. I go to the >mega-computer store and buy the cheapest address labels I can find, usually >5000 for about $12. They practically fall off after soaking in dishwasher >detergent for several hours (water as hot as my hands can stand) I usually I'd like to add a word of caution here. Dishwashing detergent is mostly Sodium Carbonate (Washing Soda) and soking things in it (like bottles) will cause a white precipitate to form on the items. If you must soak, I would recommend just soaking the *outsides* of the bottles. I once soaked two cases of bottles overnight in a Washing Soda solution and got that white film. I eventually got it off by soaking the bottles overnight in some lemon juice solution. *** Curt writes: >I'm considering making a fruit weizen using Wyeast 3068 and some combination >of rasberries/strawberries/apricots. Has anyone tried this? With some of >the recent posts about the volcanic initial fermentation of 3068, I'm >wondering if waiting to add the fruit to the secondary would be a better than >adding it to the primary. The last thing I want is a clogged blow-off tube >and a fruit/wheat beer fountain in my basement... Personally, I would avoid the 3068 for fruit beers. This is the Weihenstephan Wheat yeast and along with the banana esters it can also produce a lot of clove/phenolic aroma. I, personally, would not like the cloveyness in, say, a raspberry or apricot beer. You are right about putting the fruit in the secondary. Not only because of the clogging (you have to worry about it even in the secondary) but because the initial fermentation's CO2 will scrub out much of the fruit aroma. You will maximize your fruit aroma by adding the fruit in the secondary or at least after the main ferment has slowed down. For more detail on using fruit in beer, I recommend the 1994 Zymurgy Special Issue on Special Ingredients. There are several articles on fruit in beer in that issue. *** Russell writes (quoting someone, sorry): >> What's better: vegetable steamer/grain bag, false bottom, copper manifold? >> (Keep in mind cost as I need other items to make the move to all-grain.) >I've heard manifolds are the best. I use a false bottom with good results. >I tried a grain bag once. Once. In the upcoming Zymurgy Special Issue, there is a writeup of an experiment testing several different lauter tun designs. There are other factors to consider besides just what design, like grain bed depth, surface area (which affects the rate of cooling) and volume of the underlet. The results were quite enlightening (aren't I a tease?). I did the experiment mainly because I wanted to know if all the theory I've been spouting had any practical merit. Russ mentioned caramelization when responding to a question about the perils of boiling more than 60 minutes. There is one other factor: break formation. Dr. George Fix wrote in his book that hot break forms rapidly during the first 60 minutes of the boil. It continues to form (albeit at a slower rate) for the next 1.5 to 2 hours. Boiling longer than 3 hours has a tendancy to re-dissolve some of the protein. I would imagine that boil vigour would have something to do with this, since I've read that some Belgian breweries (I believe Liefman's used to be one of them) would simmer their wort overnight. Russ also writes (quoting another poster): >> 1) When using starters, is it better to pitch settled slurry (sans "beer") >> or to pitch the whole solution at high kreusen? >High Kreuzen. That's when the yeast are partying and ready for more wort. >If you wait until they relax and settle to the bottom, you have to wake them >up again, and that adds to lag time and reduces the effective pitching rate. Carefull, Russ... you're just repeating what you've read in Papazian. While it is true that pitching at high kraeusen can result in the shortest lag times, lag time is not always the best measurement of the health of a ferment. See the article entitled "Impact of Yeast-Handling Procedures on Beer Flavor Development During Fermentation" by A.T.W. Pickerell, et. al. In this article, they reported that yeasts pitched with low glycogen levels (as would be the case at high kraeusen) produced more sluggish ferments and the resulting beer was higher in diacetyl, DMS, FG and acetaldehyde. So, the bottom line is that the quality of the ferment (and not the lag time) should be the measure by which we choose the pitch timing and therefore yeast should be piched when their glycogen levels are the highest (from when the yeast are just beginning to settle to about two days after they have settled). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:44:22 est From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca Subject: Lazy man's wheat Hi all I am looking for a recipe for a lazy man's wheat beer. What I mean is that I don't really want to to a decoction mash (I like 1 step infusion mashes). If anyone has any good recipes, I'd like to get my hands on them. Many thank's Matt Montreal, Que. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 12:58:28 MDT From: "James Giacalone" <JGiacalone at vines.ColoState.EDU> Subject: Malt vinegar Can anyone out there tell me how to make malt vinegar? Is it the same culture as white vinegar? TIA! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:51:36 -0500 From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen) Subject: Keg Modification Question Hey all! I'm in the process of modifying a Sanke Keg into a Mash/Lauter tun and another into a boil kettle. What methods do you use to afix the plumbing to the keg? I know you can TIG weld, but I recall something quite a while back about brazing, silver soldering, and/or compression fittings. What kind of fittings do you use? I'm leaning toward the compression or bulkhead fittings, but I'm not sure if they'll seal well. I would like to drop the drain plumbing from the mash/lauter tun down out the bottom but fear the heat of the burner will damage any gaskets. What say ye? => Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org> ________________________________________________________________________ Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL. Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263 "24 Hours in a day... 24 Beers in a case... Coincidence?" ________________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 22:31 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Volatiles removal/High temperature boils ===> Algis R Korzonas writes about removing volatiles: >I'm afraid that I barely got a C in thermodynamics and it was quite a while >ago, so I don't really understand the math and therefore cannot confirm or >deny Charlie's info. I would be interested if someone could verify that >indeed "creating steam" is not important to "getting rid of unwanted volatiles >like DMS." Intuitively, I would say that it is important, but would be >willing to be convined otherwise and learn something new. There is a chemical process call steam distillation which is analogous to what you describe above. Basically, you use steam to drive off some compound that is volatile and non-miscible with water. This work for chlorobenzene and water but not alcohol and water (because water and alcohol are miscible). To the extent that DMS is non-miscible with water, steam would aid in its removal. ===> Charlie Scandrett discusses high temperature boils: >Jim>I'd advise getting to 1 ATM as soon as a boil starts. You will have >increased caramelization/melanoiden formation in a pressurized cooker and >if hops are present this is a problem too. >Is the caramelization/meloiden reactions mainly dependent on some temperature >where they accelerate, or just the total energy supplied per litre? Should be temperature dependent, not heat input dependent. The higher the temperature, the faster the rate of the chemical reactions. >The reason I ask this is that I picked up the pressure boiling thread from >Alfa Laval, the mega brewery makers. > > "From the imtermediate tank, the wort is pumped and heated instantly to 150C >by steam at 6-8 Atmospheres pressure. The pressure of the wort is at a point >where the boiling point of water is above 150C. Direct steam injection results >in an *excellent break*. i.e. Protein precipitation. After heating in the >steam injector, the wort is held at 150C for two minutes.(Yes, Jim, they agree [snip, snip, snip...] >I suggest I heat the kettle quickly to 140C at 5 ATM (using steam injection) >and release the pressure after 2 minutes. This will flash cool the wort as >heat is rapidly carried away by latent heat of vapourization until the new >boiling point of 100C is reached. In a continuous process such as the megabrewers employ, it is very easy to almost instantaneously heat the wort to 150^C. This is accomplished with a jacketed pipe. It the liquid in the pipe were to be vaporized, it would be called flash vaporization. For homebrewers employing a batch process, it is virtually impossible to heat instantaneously. Even if your intent is to only hold the wort at 140^C momentarily, the wort will spend a significant amount of time at temperatures in excess of 100^C as you heat. The time could possibly be 10 to 30 minutes. This length of time at high (> 100^C) temperatures will lead to significantly increased carmelization and melanoiden formation. It's just a fundamental difference between continuous and batch processes. An immersion chiller is batch chilling. A counterflow chiller is contin- uous chilling. A different set of mathematical equations describe these processes. A continuous process has a time dependency whereas a batch process has a quantity dependency. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 09:17:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Geiger <geigb at ruby.ils.unc.edu> Subject: Paint Stirrers Rich Byrne wrote that he had used a paint stirrer to stir his wort. I too have seen these stirrers in hardware stores, but have avoided using them. The kind I have seen are made of two pieces of aluminum soldered at the bottom. I have always assumed that the solder is lead-based. Am I wrong? Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 17:45:35 -0400 From: SRCINQ at aol.com Subject: Working with Agar Slants I'm too tight to buy a yeast culturing kit, but would love to know what the directions that come with them have to say. Some of the kits speak of testing to prove a sample is bacteria free. Sounds like a good idea, how's it done? Working with a microbiologist friend, I now have a slant of Wyeast 1056 and an inoculation loop for free. I plan to send for a pack of 50ml sterile centerfuge tubes for starting and for making more slants as neccessary. I have a few questions for the collective: 1) Do I use an ordinary DME wort as a starter media? 2) How much yeast do I need to scoop off the slant to inoculate a 40ml volume starter (one good scrape, or several)? 3) Can I go right up to a pint from the first starter, or is it important to go a step at a time? (40ml to 250ml to pint) 4) Should I quit screwing around and by a kit? Many thanks for any words of wisdom that can be offered. Steve C Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:59:02 -0700 From: RobHaiber at eworld.com Subject: Re: boil times In #1825, rich.adam at mayo.edu (Adam Rich) writes: >On a related note, why is it bad to boil the wort for more then 60 >minutes when makeing an extract-based beer? When makeing >lighter ales would I be well-advised to boil for only 30 minutes? I have had several (six) English commercial brewers instruct me to boil for a full 2hr, waiting 30min into boil before doing one, and only one additon of copper hops, at that mark. Of course, finish hopping and dry hopping are separate issues. They adhere to this regardless DME or all-grain brewing. I usually only have time to brew partial-mash batches, and never have problems with too-dark beer (as per style). I only use light and/or extra light DME, and adjust colour with chrystal, chocolate, &c malts. it must have been at least 25 batches ago when last I used dark or x-dark DME. Hope this helps. Cheers, Rob Haiber, Beer & Brewing Central admin/sysop (on Apple's eWorld network) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 15:10:12 -0700 From: RobHaiber at eworld.com Subject: Re: Kemper Wit Q Pat, I, too, found it (Kemper Wit) bland and dull, rather than refreshing. However, it is much better than the god-awful WIT Amber, which is so laden with cumin as to be almost undrinkable. In fact, it is. I've tried it three times (my judging criterion), and I have yet to finish even one bottle's worth. Rob Haiber, Beer & Brewing Central admin/sysop Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 17:53:19 -0600 From: Jeff Stampes <jeff.stampes at Xilinx.COM> Subject: Temperature increases In #1827, Tim Fields notes: >I was ready to buy a Gott because it should make it a no-brainer to >maintain temp. What was pointed out to me that I had *not* thought through >is that, by using a cooler for a mash tun, I would be giving up the ability >to raise mash temp "easily" (eg by turning up the heat) No problem Tim. Remember, the name of the game is INFUSION mash...raise the temperatures by infusing hot water into the mash! I have a spreadsheet for calculating exactly how much boiling water to add to a given grist to hit the next strike temp, and I'd be glad to email it to you. We just did a 10 gallon Barleywine today (along with a 5 gallon pale ale from the second runnings) and it was all via adding boiling water to hit each temp along the way. Personally, I think it's easier to go from 122 to 152 by dumping in 10 qts. of boiling water than it is to turn on the burners and start stirring and temperature monitoring! - -- Jeff Stampes -- Xilinx, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff.stampes at xilinx.com -- - -- "I'd rather you have your foot in your mouth once in a while than -- - -- your head up your butt all the time" - A Marketing Guy -- Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 1995 21:49:27 EDT From: "BARRON, GRAHAM LARS" <GBARRON at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU> Subject: Liene's ICE?!/ Wyeast 1968 Fellow zymurgists, I have been away from the digest for two months now and couldn't read all those old issues so I had to delete them in order to make room in my box. As an obvious consequence I couldn't read. Therefore let me make the humble apology if this has already been discussed. If it has, just simply ignore this part of the post. I had the displeasure to see for the first time a few weeks ago "Linenkugel's ICE". No, that is not a misprint. Now I have never been that much of a fan of Linenkugel's products, and have always thought that they lacked a little in flavor. But this is only a personal opinion and I know a LOT of you out there like their products, so please no flames about this. But what is going on? While I do not drink their beer, I have always at least respected Linenkugel for an honest brewing history and making honest beers with some character. And then comes this abomination! This MUST be the Miller influence and not the Linenkugel family, but still! What are they thinking? Can anyone explain this to me? I am at a loss? Needless to say I did not find it necessary to try the beer. On another issue about Wyeast 1968 (London ESB) and diacetyl. I recently brewed a batch of "ESB" using said yeast and got only minor amounts of diacetyl production despite warm fermentation temps and aeration of the wort. I mention this because I have read so much about the supposed huge amount of diacetyl production from this yeast and I wanted to throw my experience in to the kettle. YMMV of course. I was reading a "Wyeast Profile Sheet" (I assume this is produced by Wyeast Inc.) and it mentioned nothing about diacetyl and 1968. It did mention that the Irish ale yeast and the regular London ale yeast would both produce "slight diacetyl." I'm planning on a split batch test as well between 1968 and the regular London yeast in the future to see which really produces more diacetyl. I'll be interested in hearing the results of the test mentioned in the previous HBD. Until later, I am, ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Graham L. Barron | "If you drink beer, you die. If you + + University of Georgia | don't drink beer, you die anyway. So + + Athens, Georgia, USA | you might as well drink it." + + gbarron at music.cc.uga.edu | -- Roger Briess + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 95 22:18 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Heating Gott mash/Aerating hot wort/Lack of body ===> Tim Fields mentions heating a mash in a Gott cooler: >I was ready to buy a Gott because it should make it a no-brainer to >maintain temp. What was pointed out to me that I had *not* thought through >is that, by using a cooler for a mash tun, I would be giving up the ability >to raise mash temp "easily" (eg by turning up the heat) Steam injection works very nicely to heat a mash in a Gott cooler. It's the same principle that's used in making cappuccino. ===> Rich Byrnes discusses stirring wort while chilling: >Question for the collective, is my beer ruined? I had a brainfart the last >time I was in Home-Depot and bought an industrial paint stirrer, the kind that >is 3.5 feet tall with a fluted impeller device at the bottom, and locks into >a drill. Anyways, using my trusty 50' immersion chiller, I waited til my wort >was below 160F [snip, snip, snip...] > I occasionally brought the impeller above the surface to >whip air into the cooling wort, I had a layer of foam on top that hop leaves >were floating on, what a sight. Stirring air into your wort while it's hot is not a good idea. It will lead to hot side aertion (HSA) and wet cardboard-like flavors. You should wait until the wort is cool (< 100^F) before aerating it. ===> Tim Hawkins asks about lack of body >I am a new homebrewer and I have a problem with my latest (2nd) >batch of beer. It is a nut brown ale and it seems to have a >wonderful taste, but has no body. It's odd, because it has a strong taste, >but at the same time tastes watery. The OG was about 1.055 and the final >was about 1.011, which was about right. Try adding a little (1/2 lb) of crystal, caramel, or malto-dextrine malt. Crush these grains, put them in a grain bag, steep them in 170^F water for 1/2 hr, add your malt extract, and continue on with your boil. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 03:03:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" <alexw+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: priming sugar questions We bottled our beer a couple of days ago and noticed that there is already some sediment forming on the bottom of the bottle (it looks a lot like the priming sugar that we used). To prime we added 3/4 cup of sugar to a pint of beer and heated it up (didn't bring it to a full boil because the directions that we had were not specific on this, but looking at papazian we think we should have brought it to a boil). Anyway, our question is if we should try and mix this sediment back into each beer in case it is sugar that went out of suspension too early. We would rather not end up with un-carbonated beer. thanks, alex Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 23:14:47 EST From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop) Subject: MY LATEST BATCH I have just cracked a bottle of my latest brew (which I actually submitted an article to the HBD about when the fermentation took 24 hrs to take off with 3 packets of rehydrated dry yeast) and think it may just turn into a real ripper. As such, I'm going to put my info up for analysis to see if anyone has done anything similar, and so if anyone wants to try it, they may. "The Mix" 2 x 1.8Kg John Bull Draught Ale cans of extract 2 tablespoons of honey approx. 250grams white sugar (Didn't have any dextrose handy) 2 x John Bull dry yeast (came with cans) 1 x Wander dry yeast (added after 24hrs inactivity) Boil the mixture for 45mins-1hr. I think on reflection that I would have liked to add some bittering hops to my boil, but I have trouble getting them where I am (They have to fly about 4000kms to get here) and thus couldn't do it. Strain into fermenter & Top up to usual 23 litres. Here's where I got brave/foolish/stupid/adventurous/"had one too many homebrews!". Due to work commitments, as the fermentation slowed, I realized I couldn't bottle the beer for about 7 additional days. I was also without a secondary fermenter. My solution? Feed the yeast a bit more fermentable matter, viz: 1 litre water 200 grams white sugar 2 tablespoons honey 2 tablespoons Lyles golden syrup This lot was boiled for about 40 minutes, and added to the fermenter through my airlock hole (I'm pretty sure it didn't get infected - tastes too good). The bottle I have sampled is about 10 days bottled. It hasn't fully carbonated yet, but produces a lovely creamy white head when poured well. The flavour will no doubt mellow and blend as the conditioning happens. I think I've created a monster (it's got a beautiful warm glow going in the back of my throat!) Any suggestions as to best additional hops, ways to balance etc. without going to full grain, will be greatly appreciated. I do know that although I used some white sugar, I cannot taste a cidery character - lucky? or are the other ingredients to blame? - -------------------------------------------------------------- >From the desk of Ian Bishop - The Mad Muso of Mount Isa, Aust. Please Direct All Flames to \DEV\NUL or 0:0/0 - Thanks!! All Real Replies to IBISHOP at TANUS.OZ.AU or 3:640/706 - -------------------------------------------------------------- - --- * RM 1.3 A1824 * Trombonist (n) : Successful Career Letting Things Slide..... Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 23:14:46 EST From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop) Subject: KEGGING To any Aussies out there on the HBD. Can anyone point me in the direction of the cheapest source of a decent quality kegging system? I have reached the point where my beers are quite consistent and very drinkable, but with the weather conditions in Mount Isa I would like to brew 5-6 batches during winter and have 5-6 kegs ready for summer. I would also greatly appreciate any other information you can provide about favourite suppliers etc., as I live far enough away from anywhere that a couple extra dollars postage is pretty insignificant in the overall scheme. What I want (ok!, ok! What I would <LIKE>!) : - ----------------------------------------------- Suppliers of full kegging systems (approx. prices would be good) Suppliers of extra kegs (prices again) quality ingredients suppliers (phone & fax numbers) Private email is fine, unless someone has a particular objection. I am happy to summarise if the interest/responses are there. - -------------------------------------------------------------- >From the desk of Ian Bishop - The Mad Muso of Mount Isa, Aust. I am "Asbestos Man" - Flame Away! Replies to ibishop at tanus.oz.au or ibishop at ozemail.com.au - --- * RM 1.3 A1824 * Siix munce argo I cutn't spel teecher und noww eye is wun!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 23:14:45 EST From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop) Subject: HOMEBREW DIGEST #1827 (SE HH> "bloop, blooping" last more that 8 hours, or should I really try to HH> look and see if I have a leak in the plastic carboy, or am I HH> "worrying" too much. So far the beer has been good. Please post me HH> personnally if you wish. It has always been my philosophy that if the final product ain't broken, don't stuff about with that which makes it good. From my experiences, 8 hours is an incredibly short fermentation - most of mine go minimum 7 days at a 60-70 degree tamerature range. My guess would be to check the main seal on your fermenter, and if that is good, the seal for your airlock. Those are the two areas that I've had most problems from. Just remember though, you like your beer the way it is - probably says there really cannot be much wrong. - -------------------------------------------------------------- >From the desk of Ian Bishop - The Mad Muso of Mount Isa, Aust. I am "Asbestos Man" - Flame Away! Replies to ibishop at tanus.oz.au or ibishop at ozemail.com.au - --- * RM 1.3 A1824 * MyProg v.1 * Eval Day 1,094,583,217 * I Support Shareware! Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1828, 09/11/95