FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  re: TSP for lbel removal ("Robert Marshall")
  Bottles and Such (MR HENRY B BANKS)
  RE 60 min boil time (Wim Hielkema)
  More Starter Woes (Todd Mansfield)
  Fruit weizen (Larry.Carden)
  hello, I'm back. (Andy Walsh)
  Dark malt in lauter-tun (Tim Laatsch)
  NO SUBJECT (d_peters)
  Stuck Fermantation or High Finishing Gravity? ("MSG Richard Smith")
  Yeast sludge / sediment in bottles (gravels)
  Reply to priming sugar question (Michael A. Genito)
  RE Saving used yeast (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  St. Patrick's of Texas, Inc. ("Lynne O'Connor")
  First Annual KROC World Brewers Forum(c) (John Adams)
  partial mash Guinness (Allen Born)
  Austin Brew Pubs (David_Arnone)
  ? yield has gone down :( (joep)
  Homebrew Digest #1828 (Greg Holton)
  ss airstones (Rob Emenecker)
  yeast, yeast, yeast, #$%^&* bot, wheat (Russell Mast)
  Body (Russell Mast)
  Pitching rates (Jeff Benjamin)
  BJCP exam at the GABF (Scott Bickham)
  HSA in the mash/scum skimming (Algis R Korzonas)
  fermentation ?'s ("Mark J. Wilk")
  Yet more on labels (bugs) ("Michael R. Swan")
  Stuck Belgian Ferment? (Keith Chamberlin)



******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date:          Sun, 3 Sep 1995 08:32:29 +0000
From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net>
Subject:       re: TSP for lbel removal

It is funny that you should mention this (TSP) as I have posted this 
idea twice before!!! (Don't ask me which issues though).

Your amount is WAY TOO MUCH THOUGH!!!!

They sell TSP at the local wine shop, here in Berkeley. The 
instuctions are either 1 tsp or 1 tbs. per gallon on warm water (I 
honestly don't remember and I don't have any tsp at home to look at. 
I'll check the bottle when I get a new batch and let you know.

While the labels don't just float off, you can generally pull them 
off by hand after 30 minutes of soaking. I have not tried soaking 
over night though.

How much are you paying for TSP at the paint store? It might be 
interesting to see if it is cheaper from the paint store than from 
the wine shop BEFORE I spend the money.

Talk to you soon,

Later,

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:55:05 EDT
From: CWGT22C at prodigy.com (MR HENRY B BANKS)
Subject: Bottles and Such

Bottles?  Labels?  Adhesive?  It is enough to make you want to keg!


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 19:19:50 +0100
From: betonh at xs4all.nl (Wim Hielkema)
Subject: RE 60 min boil time

Hello all,

In #1827, timf at relay.com wrote:

>In #1825, rich.adam at mayo.edu (Adam Rich) writes:

>>On a related note, why is it bad to boil the wort for more then 60
>>minutes when makeing an extract-based beer?  When makeing lighter ales
>>would I be well-advised to boil for only 30 minutes?

>Says whom?  Much of what I have learned (and most of that from HBD, thank
>you :-) says that 60 mins is a minimum boil time.  In fact, I'm now boiling
>everything average-aleish for 75 minutes.  No hops added for the first 15
>mins, then add them and do the hr boil.  I suppose that for a light color
>target one might want to shorten the boil to avoid darkening the beer?

Don't get the different types of extracts used confused. If you're using a
pre-hopped extract (i.e. a beerkit) you should boil as short as possible
(10 -15 min.) only to sterilize the wort, because the hop flavours will
deteriorize upon boiling. Here in holland a lot of these kits require only
to boil the water, cool it and then dissolve the (liquid) extract after
which the yeast can be added (no mention of areation whatsoever btw.). If
you use extracts and add hops separately you must boil longer to get the
right hop utilization, but limiting the boiling time to 60 min. is indeed
better, because of excess darkening of the wort. I've found it very
difficult to get a light colored beer (as you would get from malted grains)
from (dry) extracts. Light DME is already darker than pilsmalt so you need
to keep the OG down for a light colored beer and long boiling times add
even more to the color. Constant stirring (watch out for HSA) and tempering
the burner as much as possible during the boil should reduce darkening.
Otherwise if you treat dry extracts as all-grain during the boil (i.e do a
full boil) the results can be suprisingly good.

Bye, Wim.

Wim Hielkema, betonh at xs4all.nl, http://www.xs4all.nl/~betonh



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 10 Sep 95 12:53 EST
From: Todd Mansfield <0002033006 at mcimail.com>
Subject: More Starter Woes

In HBD 1827, Rolland Everitt writes

 -snip-
>In each case I used wort made of DME
>with a pinch of yeast nutrients added.  Gravity was about 1.050
>in both cases.
 -snip-
>Both times it looked as though the starter was going to
>take off, and both times it pooped out.  I aerated both starters
>well (I think), and re-aerated them when activity slowed - to
>no avail.  What am I doing wrong?

In my experience, the source of fermentables can have a dramatic 
impact on starter viability. Early this year I bought a bag of 
DME for starters and had a dreadful time getting them to go 
(*extremely* slow fermentation). Over a series of attempts I 
tried supplemental yeast nutrient, increasingly higher levels 
of aeration, and several different yeast types (all the slants 
I tried are still viable today). Result: little/no improvement. 
(A procedural note: my starter OG is always about 1.030).

Out of desperation I made up a starter from a little all-grain 
batch (but otherwise used the same starter prep procedure). 
Result: Massive Improvement. We're talking night and day here. 
Of course, I'll be happy to provide full details to all who 
ask.

I don't want to give the impression that I know why (I don't 
yet). Now here's the question:

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that my DME contains 
significant amounts of glucose and/or other "simple" sugars 
(this is pure speculation). Could my problem be a manifestation 
of the Crabtree effect?

Todd Mansfield
Cincinnati, OH
TMansfield at mcimail.com


Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Sep 95 12:24:00 -0500
From: Larry.Carden at pscmail.ps.net
Subject: Fruit weizen

Curt Speaker wrote:

>Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:54 EDT
>From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU     (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
>Subject: more on labels/weizen ?

>...
>I'm considering making a fruit weizen using Wyeast 3068 and some 
combination
>of rasberries/strawberries/apricots.   Has anyone tried this?  With some of
>the recent posts about the volcanic initial fermentation of 3068, I'm
>wondering if waiting to add the fruit to the secondary would be a better
>than
>adding it to the primary.  The last thing I want is a clogged blow-off tube
>and a fruit/wheat beer fountain in my basement...
>Any insight would be appreciated.  I've made plenty of fruit beers, just
>never
>with Wyeast 3068.
>Hoppy Brewing
>Curt
>css2 at oas.psu.edu

Curt,

I made an Apricot Weizen with ~ 5 lbs. fresh apricots (frozen before 
steeping in
hot water and adding to secondary).  I used Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan.

I also tasted a Raspberry Weizen, from a friend, also made with Wyeast 3068 
Weihenstephan.

My opinions, for what they are worth:

1) The Wyeast 3068 does a good job if you want a plain (non-fruit), 
authentic-tasting Weizen.  (Takes the longest to ferment of any yeast I've 
used--about 14 days in a closed primary fermenter, with 1 package/5 gal., no 

starter.)

2) Although I can recommend this yeast for a non-fruit beer, I don't think 
its 
flavor makes a good combination with fruit.  The fruit beers I've made and 
tasted are better when the fruit/malt/hops flavor and aroma are not 
competing 
with the dominating flavor and aroma of this type of yeast.  Good commercial 

offerings tend to agree with this theory--i.e., Pyramid Apricot Ale does not 

taste like it uses an authentic weizen yeast, and neither does Wynkoop 
Backyard 
Ale (peachy wheat).

3) I definitely recommend using the secondary for your addition of fruit 
flavor.
Frozen raspberries (I've used Bel-Air brand from Safeway), steeped in hot 
(160F)
water for 30 min. before addition to secondary, work great.  I used 4 - 5 
lbs. 
in a very successful Raspberry ESB recipe.  You could use less, especially 
for a
lighter, less flavorful beer.  I was less impressed with the use of fresh 
apricots--part of the pulp tends to float, and I had more problems during 
siphoning/bottling, resulting in less yield, and some apricot flowing out 
first 
from some bottles.  If I make an apricot or peach wheat beer again, I will 
use a
neutral yeast like Wyeast 1056, and might use all-natural extract flavoring, 
or 
just pour the steeping water into secondary, leaving the fruit pulp out.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 09:21:57 +1000
From: awalsh at world.net (Andy Walsh)
Subject: hello, I'm back.

Just a quickie. I've been off email for some months now. For those
who have been trying to get in touch, please note my new email
address. This is semi-permanent. For those who think this is a waste of
bandwidth, you now have an address to send all those flames to!

******************
Andy Walsh from Sydney.
awalsh at world.net
OR
awalsh at crl.com.au
******************
***********************
Andy Walsh from Sydney
Ph. (02) 212 6333
***********************



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:45:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Dark malt in lauter-tun

Hey All,

I mash on the stovetop and lauter in a zapap.  I've noticed that I tend to 
get oxidation with dark malts, a problem that I believe has two sources:  
transfer of hot mash to lauter-tun and manual recirculation.  Regardless of 
how careful I am not to induce HSA, the problem persists with varying degrees 
of intensity, but usually just enough to be irritating.  My proposed remedy 
is to add any dark-roasted malts to the lauter-tun AFTER the manual 
recirculation phase.  My questions are:  Will this work?  Is there any reason 
NOT to do this?  Could crystal malt be handled the same way?  Your opinions are 
welcome---I'll summarize any privately received info.  I have to get my 
stouts and porters back on-line with the early arrival of brisk fall weather 
here in Michigan!

BTW, many thanks to all of you for the advice on improving my American Pale 
recipe---I'm happily reaping the dividends!  I've found that a small 
proportion of Munich malt contributes a pleasant, soft, and creamy malt 
texture.  Having little experience with Munich malt, I'm wondering:  is this 
the standard Munich effect? 

Bones

*=============================================================================*
| Timothy P. Laatsch            | email:     laatsch at kbs.msu.edu | Aspiring   |
| Graduate Student-Microbiology | biz phone: 616-671-2329        | All-Grain  |
| Michigan State University/KBS | fax:       616-671-2104        | Homebrewer |
| Kalamazoo, MI                 | obsession: Pale Ale            | & Scientist|
*=============================================================================*

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 09:19:55 EDT
From: d_peters at e-mail.com
Subject: NO SUBJECT


THIS IS A CORPORATE DOCUMENT - FOLLOW RECORDS MANAGEMENT POLICY
FROM: DAVID T. PETERS
SUBJECT:

Subject:  Gelatin Thread
Red Alert . . . Alien lurker decloaking off the starboard side.
As with many others.  I have been enjoying the wealth of knowledge presented
by the subscribers of HBD.
Recently much has been said about Gelatin, though I am lacking clarification
on 1 aspect.  Once the Gelatin has been dissolved and poured into the carboy,
is there any need to stir, shake or otherwise try to homogenize the beer?  If
so, what is the best method.
Secondly, if done 2 or 3 days prior to bottling, is there any benefit to a
second addition of gelatin to the 'primed mixture'?  TIA
d_peters at e-mail.com

REGARDS,   DAVID T. PETERS        E-MAIL: D_PETERS at E-MAIL.COM
CW170 BODY CONSTRUCTION LEADER, VEHICLE OPERATIONS
FORD OF GERMANY, MERKINECH        MAIL LOCATION: D-ME/MF-21
PHONE: 011 49 221 90 377 91       FAX: 011 49 221 90 330 15

Return to table of contents


Date:     Mon, 11 Sep 95 09:38:42 EST
From: "MSG Richard Smith" <QR1661 at trotter.USMA.EDU>
Subject:  Stuck Fermantation or High Finishing Gravity?

I brewed 10 gallons of all-grain using 19lbs English 2 row and 3 lbs of
English crystal.  Everything went perfectly, and I hit my target of an
OG of 60 a little high at 62.  I split the batch into two 5 gallon
carboys and pitched one with 10 grams(2 packages) of Doric dry yeast and
the other with 12 grams (2 packages) of Munton and Fison dry yeast.  The
yeast was properly hydrated and both fermentations went as expected
except that I thought they stopped bubbling perhaps a day too soon.  I
took a gravity reading on the 6th day after 3 days of absolute zero
activity and got readings of SG 26 in each carboy.  I thought this a
little high and added some yeast energizer.  1 day later nothing.  I
repitched with 11.5 grams (1 package) Edme dry yeast each. 2 days later-
nothing.  I tried rousing the yeast too - nothing.
My own conclusion is that I should have used a more attenuative yeast
(liquid?) to hit my desired final gravity of 14-15.  Is liquid yeast the
only answer or is there a better dry type to use with OGs over 50?  Any
comments would be appreciated; even flames for using dry yeast in the
first place.  TIA-  Jack

Richard J. Smith
qr1661 at trotter.usma.edu
72154.516 at compuserve.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 09:39:07 EST
From: gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: Yeast sludge / sediment in bottles


Hi All,

Bill Cole asked in HBD #1827 about saving the sludge from a previous
batch.

I'm a firm believer in using the yeast sludge from my last
batch, it gives me a huge starter and saves the $3.75 I pay for Wyeast
packs.  Here's my procedure;  Before I rack the beer off of the yeast
and start to bottle, I boil a mason jar in about 2 inches of water
(lid on the pot) for about 15 minutes then let it cool while I bottle.
I rack the beer into the bottling bucket leaving a little beer on top
of the yeast. I clean and flame the neck of my carboy, this is the
secondary fermenter, swirl the liquid around to get the yeast into
suspension and pour off the liquid into the sterilized jar.  Put the
sterilized lid on and put it in the fridge.  Once the yeast
settles out you can decant off the beer and replace it with cooled
boiled water to clean the yeast, I don't always do this part.  I've
collected the sludge from the primary fermenter also, but someone
(sorry, don't remember who) said that the yeast from the secondary are
more desirable because they are less flocculant?!  Anyway, either
method works.  I used the yeast sludge I had stored in the fridge two
months ago to make a 1/2 gal starter and this batch was underway in
less than two hours!

Alex Wetmore in HBD #1828 is concerned about the sediment in his
bottles.

The sediment is probably not the sugar, I don't bring the sugar to a
boil either and have had no problems, what you are seeing is the yeast
settling out.  I'm not sure when you should actually be seeing the
yeast sediment begin to form (I don't check the bottles that
regularly), but I wouldn't worry about your beer.  It sounds as if
your procedures are correct and your beer is going to be just fine.

Steve

"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an adventure!"

         O O
- ---ooOo--(_)--oOoo---
          U


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:27:00 -0400
From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael A. Genito)
Subject: Reply to priming sugar question

>From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" <alexw+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
>Subject: priming sugar questions
>
>We bottled our beer a couple of days ago and noticed that there is
>already some sediment forming on the bottom of the bottle (it looks
>a lot like the priming sugar that we used).
My guess it is yeast that has settled.

> To prime we added 3/4 cup of sugar to a pint of beer and heated it
Beer? or Water? In any case, as long as the 3/4 cup was for the whole 5 gal
batch - not 3/4 for every pint.

>our questtion is if we should try and mix this sediment back into each beer
in >case it is sugar that went out of suspension too early. We would rather
not end up with un-carbonated beer.
As long as the sugar was liquefied prior to adding it to the batch, it
should not have settled out. Papazian (and others) recommend bringing to a
boil to assure that any contaminants (wild yeast, bacteria, etc) present in
the unboiled water wil be killed. By "mix" if you mean shake the bottles,
there will be no damage but the beer will simply have to settle again. If
you mean open the bottles, dont do it because you'll risk infection and/or
overcarbonating if you add more sugar.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 10:36:19 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com
Subject: RE Saving used yeast

In #1827, bill_cole at ariel.com (Billy Cole) asks:

>What would be the best way for me
>to save the yeast I have now and reuse it when I brew again?

There is a good write-up on yeast washing, etc. in the Yeast FAQ that is 
exactly what you want.  It's available via FTP.  See instructions for 
ARCHIVES in the HBD header for info about how to get to the FTP site.  This 
is a VERY USEFUL doc re all aspects of yeast.

 -Tim

Tim Fields / Vienna, VA, USA / timf at relay.com

"Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe" ... Thulsa Doom
"reebs me" ... me


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:13:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Lynne O'Connor" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: St. Patrick's of Texas, Inc.

Jay Reeves wrote on the Homebrew Digest regarding an order he received 
from our company.  He placed an order for a 7 gallon carboy on a Monday 
and it was shipped via UPS the following day.  That is what I promise in 
my catalog.  It is true that at St. Patrick's we ship 40% of the orders 
on the same day they are placed.  On this particular Monday it was not 
physically possible to get out any more orders.  We strive to give the 
best service possible and at the same time maintain quality.  
The most common complaint has been the number of busy signals.  ATT 
tracks busy signals for us and we have been averaging  1,500 busy signals 
on our 800 number per month. In an effort to increase service we recently 
installed a second line.  If you have any questions regarding our company 
or would like to receive a free catalog our 800 number is:   (800) 
448-4224, or visit our web page at http://www.internetnow.com/stpats/


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 09:29:53 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: First Annual KROC World Brewers Forum(c)

   _________________________________________________________________

                 First Annual KROC World Brewers Forum(c)
   _________________________________________________________________
   
   
   
   The Keg Ran Out Club (KROC), Colorado's newest homebrew club, is
   pleased to announce the first annual KROC World Brewers Forum(c).
   
   KROC in conjunction with The Homebrew Hut and The American
   Homebrewers Association(r) are very excited to present two
   world-renowned brewmasters:

     * Pierre Celis head brewmaster of the Celis Brewery.
     * Greg Noonan brewmaster/owner of The Vermont Pub and Brewery.
       Author of "Brewing Lager Beer" and "Scottish Ales" (Brewers
       Publications 1986, 1993).
       
   
   
   Pierre will discuss Traditional Belgian Brewing and Beers. Greg will
   present Brewing Lager Beer.  Participants will have an opportunity to:
     * Meet and interact with the brewers.
     * Sample fine beers.
     * Win door prizes/raffles.
       
   
   
   The KROC World Brewers Forum(c) is open to all interested
   brewers and beer lovers. The forum is free of charge but seating is
   limited to the first 100 individuals so please RSVP to reserve your
   spot.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   When:  7pm Thursday, October 5, 1995
   
   Where: The Executive Tower Inn, 14th and Curtis, Denver Colorado
          (across the street from the site of the 1995 Great American
	  Beer Festival(r))
   
   RSVP: (303) 460-1776 or j_adams at sde.hp.com
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Sponsored by:
      The Homebrew Hut
      The American Homebrewers Association
      The Celis Brewery

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 11:41:58 -0400
From: Allen Born <BornA at USA.RED-CROSS.ORG>
Subject:  partial mash Guinness

For my birthday my wife gave me a 33 quart brew pot, a wort chiller, and
other materials needed to make the step to all-grain brewing (yes, I'm a
lucky man).  For my first batch I'd like to do a partial mash attempt at a
Guinness clone.  I have the basic recipe but know that I can't really
duplicate Guinness without adding sour beer.  Can I sour a can of
store-bought Guinness?  If so, how and when do I add the sour beer?
TIA.  

Allen Born


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:12:10 -0400
From: David_Arnone at Warren.MentorG.com
Subject: Austin Brew Pubs


Hello all,

I will be attending software conference in Austin, TX the week of October
15th with a group of friends who love microbrews.  We have heard that Austin
boasts a few good brew pubs and we are looking for recommendations.

Direct e-mail is fine.

Dave
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ David J. Arnone                      Mentor Graphics Corporation +
+ dja at warren.mentorg.com               15 Independence Boulevard   +
+ Telephone: 1.908.604.0923            Warren,  New Jersey 07059   +
+ Fax: 1.908.580.0820 (3rd Floor)      Main Fax: 1.908.580.1906    +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 12:26:56 -0400
From: joep at informix.com (joep)
Subject: ? yield has gone down :( 

Hi all,

My turn to ask a question (and start another thread).  Of course, thanks
to the whole for the insightful and entertaining reading material (I am
actually a contributor <g>).

Since I've gone all-grain, my yield has gone down.  I've done three
batches (w/two pots) and I've been getting 3-3.5 gallons of finished
product where I should be getting closer to 5.  <heavy sigh>

To correct the problem, I have just recently purchased an 8 gallon pot.
This should cut down on evaporation loses due to two pots.  This will
also, theoretically, allow me to start my boil with 7 gallons, losing
1.5 to evaporation and .5 to hot/cold break.  I realize I'll lose a
little more in the fermenter, but that would be ok. 

Does this make sense?  I don't think I've been sparging enough.  If I
sparge to 7 gallons with which to start the boil (60 minute boil), will
I be ok?  Am I better off sparging less and adding some water?  

(fyi, the next batch will be a doppelbock, starting with 17# of grain.)

Thanx,
joe.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Joe Pearl, Sr. Sales Engineer, Informix Software, Inc.                      |
| 8675 Hidden River Parkway, Tampa, FL, 33637 813-615-0616                    |
| Competition is good for the consumer.                                       |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck  |
| the government." - Lenny Bruce (1923-1966)                                  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:47:32 -0500 (EDT)
From: greg at kgn.ibm.com (Greg Holton)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1828

> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:51:36 -0500
> From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen)
> Subject: Keg Modification Question
> 
> Hey all!
> 
> I'm in the process of modifying a Sanke Keg into a Mash/Lauter tun and 
> another into a boil kettle.
> 
> What methods do you use to afix the plumbing to the keg?  I know you can TIG 
> weld, but I recall something quite a while back about brazing, silver 
> soldering, and/or compression fittings.
>
> What kind of fittings do you use?  I'm leaning toward the compression or
> bulkhead fittings, but I'm not sure if they'll seal well.
>


I'm happy with my arrangement, done with inexpensive off-the-shelf brass
hardware.  The fitting that goes through the keg is a 3/8" compression to
1/2" female pipe thread adapter.  A 1/2" brass ball valve is spaced away from 
the outside of the keg with a 3-4" brass nipple.  The gasket (inside) is 
copper, which I made by cutting off the end of a copper pipe cap, then drilling
the appropriate sized hole. 

> I would like to drop the drain plumbing from the mash/lauter tun down out 
> the bottom but fear the heat of the burner will damage any gaskets.

I think you'd be pushing your luck.  Also there are times when you want the
drain above the bottom.  

> 
> What say ye?
> 
> => Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL.  Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
> "24 Hours in a day... 24 Beers in a case... Coincidence?"
> ________________________________________________________________________

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 12:56:40 PDT
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: ss airstones

A quick question for the collective...

Over the past few months I made the switch to full volume boils and chilling 
with a counterflow chiller. For aerating I was concerned that an aeration 
wand (drilled tubing) would clog with cold break from the chiller. Instead I 
have opted for using an aquarium pump to aerate my cooled wort. The two 
problems I have experienced with this method is 1) sanitizing the small 
aquarium airlines/tubing is a PITA (but I will tough it out) and 2) the 
airstones I have like to float to the surface. I am assuming that the weight 
of a stainless steel airstone will sink it to the bottom of my carboy. Am I 
right of am I wrong? I have looked around the local pet stores and cannot 
find SS airstones. Where do I obtain these ellusive goodies?

TIA

============================================================================
Rob Emenecker (remenecker at cadmus.com)
Cadmus Journal Services, Inc., Linthicum, Maryland 21090
410-691-6454 (voice) / 410-684-2793 (fax)
Date: 09/11/95  Time: 12:56:40
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are only two things in life that are ever certain... taxes and BEER!"
============================================================================



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:50:12 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: yeast, yeast, yeast, #$%^&* bot, wheat


Your article sent to homebrew is being ejected. The reason:
 --Contains  line(s) greater than 80 chars in length --

> From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
> Subject: Open Letter from Wyeast
> 
> >The following letter is being sent to the retailers who handle
> >Wyeast's yeast strains.

> >Please provide this notice to all customers of: Brewers Choice #3278B
> >Yeast.

It's been said that the "B" is for bogus.  Too funny not to repeat.

> >This name change reflects the fact that this yeast culture is a blend
> >of yeasts and not 100% of one particular strain. 

It's 90% ale yeast, 10% Brettanomyces Bruxellensis, so it's said.

Actually, there is talk on the Lambic Digest of a boycott of Wyeast, 
primarily because of this yeast.  First, they package and sell it labelled 
as B. Brux.  An interpid homebrewer plates the stuff and does some 
microbiology stuff to it and declares it to be almost purely S. Cerv'.  
He does this to a couple different batches, and posts his results.  
He and his net access provider get a threatening letters from Wyeast's 
lawyers.  Finally, they post saying that it was 90/10, and that this 
information was available for the asking.  

I said there, and will say here, that a boycott is a bit of a PITA for me.
But, now, well, READ ON.

> From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algissimo R Korzonas)

> Russ also writes (quoting another poster):
> >> 1)  When using starters, is it better to pitch settled slurry (sans "beer")
> >> or to pitch the whole solution at high kreusen?
> 
> >High Kreuzen.  That's when the yeast are partying and ready for more wort.
> >If you wait until they relax and settle to the bottom, you have to wake them
> >up again, and that adds to lag time and reduces the effective pitching rate.
> 
> Carefull, Russ... you're just repeating what you've read in Papazian. 

I've heard it from numerous sources.  Last night, I was pitching a starter
(for use next weekend, FWIW), and I read the Wyeast Packet.

Wyeast recommends pitching a starter at high kreuzen.  

So, should I boycott Wyeast, boycott the HBD, or just start drinking Leiny's 
Ice and forget about brewing?

(As far LI goes, btw, I pretty much lost any 'faith' I had in them when they 
release their honey weisse.  Not a terrible beer, but the ad campaigns 
encouraging people to call it "Weece" didn't sit to well with me.  I still
prefer L's Red to most mega-brews, and I won't turn you away if you show up 
at my door with a 6 of weece.)

> From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
> Subject: Lazy man's wheat

Someone else was asking for my wheat recipe the other day.  I found it
last night, but forgot to bring it in.  But, what the heck, here it is
from memory.

10.5 lbs. Malted Wheat, poorly crushed.  (Helps with sparging?)
Mash start temp 151, ending temp 146 or 148, I forget.  
Mashed for ~110 minutes.
Sparged about 6.5 to 7 gallons of delicious wheat-only extract.
2 oz.  Hersbrucker (4.0% AA)
Boil 60 minutes.  
Pitch Wyeast's Weihenstephan Wheat strain, I think 3068 or 3608 or 3086,
a one gallon starter, two days after high kreuzen.  (Coincidence?  I think so.)

 -R



- ----- End Included Message -----


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:53:39 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Body

Everyone say "Weece".

> From: Tim Hawkins <hawkins at arlut.utexas.edu>
> Subject: Lack of body
> 
> May I have lost too
> much wort in the break, even though the OG was correct ? If anyone
> has an idea, please let me know, I'd like to correct it before my next batch.

OG is not very closely tied to a beer's body.  Did this recipe involve any 
specialty malts or partial mash at all?  If not, specialty malts can
probably help.

 -R

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 14:15:02 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Pitching rates

Pat Babcock <pbabcock at oeonline.com> writes:

>o   I usually pitch from a 1.5 l starter, from a 400 ml starter,
>    from a 35 ml starter from an inoculation look that has touched
>    greatness in my slant. In his posting, Dan states that "1L is an
>    underpitch for a 5 gal batch". I buy this as my lag time is not
>    as short as I'd like (eventually would like to get to a few
>    hours lag, but from my starter; not from dregs). What is
>    considered adequate for a 5 gallon batch?

Here's some information I got from Jeff Lebesch, the man behind New
Belgium Brewing.  It's from a handout he had at a talk he gave to the
local brew club a few years back:

"Most references recommend a minimum pitching rate of 10 million yeast
cells per milli-liter of wort, plus another 1 million cells/ml for every
0.004 gravity increase above 1.040.  ...The 10...15 million cells/ml
rate is easily achieved by adding 5 ml of thick yeast slurry per liter
of wort.  For ales, sometimes you can go as low as 3 ml/l, and for low
temperature lager fermentations 10 ml/l is suggested.

"During a healthy fermentation, the yeast cell count increases to a peak
of approximately 60 million cells/ml.  Then it seems to me, that given
the 10M cells/ml minimum pitching rate, the maximum wort volume increase
should be six-fold....  However, many references suggest that a 10-fold
increase is acceptable.

"...If 600 ml of starter culture is pitched into 18 l of wort (about 5
gallons), that is a 30-fold wort volume increase.  In most situations,
this is drastic underpitching.  The only way it will work is if the
yeast is at its peak activity and viability...  plus wort conditions are
optimal.

"OK, let's culture another generation, by adding the 600ml culture to 3
liters of wort, and adding that to the 18 liters.  Now each generation
has had a wort volume increase of less than 6....  But, adding 15% of a
cheap culture wort to your prized wort will ruin it.  One solution is
that the culture wort must be of the same composition as the beer....
This is common in breweries where the same beer is brewed every day....
The other solution is to let the 3 liter culture ferment to completion,
then refrigerate...  then pour off the top beer, and collect the yeast
slurry."

This doesn't address the question of when to step up or pitch your
starter (in fact, the last sentence says "ferment to completion"; that's
probably not what you would do normally when stepping up your starters).
However, it's clear that a 1L *yeast cake* would probably be over-
pitching by a bit.  The maximum liquid wort increase of 10-fold would
indicate a 1.8L starter for 18L (5.2 gal).

- --
Jeff Benjamin                      benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Think!  It ain't illegal yet."  -- George Clinton

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 16:11:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Bickham <bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: BJCP exam at the GABF

How's that for overuse of acronymns?  To clear up any confusion,
the independent Beer Judge Certification Program is willing
to host a BJCP exam at the Great American Beer Festival in
on the morning of October 6th.  A minimum of 6 takers is required,
and so far only 3 have expressed an interest, so I need to
know ASAP if there will be enough takers.  Please contact me
by phone or e-mail if you want to take the exam.

Cheers, Scott
- -- 
====================================================================
E-Mail: bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil		7507 Swan Point Way
						Columbia, MD 21045
FAX: (202) 404-7546				(410) 290-7721 (H)
						(202) 404-8632 (W)
====================================================================

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 12:49:21 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: HSA in the mash/scum skimming

Dave writes:
>I am wondering if my procedures are unduly risking HSA...

>The first possible source of oxidation is when I dump the goods into the
>sparging bin.  It's at mashout temp, 77 C, and splashes like mad.

I would say that, yes, this is a problem.  Personally, I make most of my
beer in an EasyMasher(tm), so there is no transfer of mash at all.  Recently,
I did make a few non-EM batches in which I "glorped."  "Glorping" is a term
I picked up from someone (sorry) at the Chicago Beer Society and is the
transfer of mash from mash tun to laeuter tun by using either a saucepan
(or even better, a dedicated "glorper") one scoop at a time.  By doing this,
you can gently lay the mash down in the laeuter tun and minimize aeration.

>Next, during recirculation I pour the first runnings back into
>the top of the bin onto an inverted saucer--more splashing.  I can't reach
>in to the bin with my pitcher, so it pours from the 25-30 cm height
>mentioned above.

Again, I believe that this is a problem.  I use a small measureing cup for
catching the early runnings and therefore I can again gently lay down the
runnings back into the top of the laeuter tun without aeration or disturbing
the grain bed too much.  I must admit that there is a disadvantage to the
small measureing cup in that I have to stop the runnoff between cups of
runnings.  I have to think more about solving this problem since starting
and stopping the runnings has a tendancy to un-seat the grain bed a little
each time.

***
Kevin writes:
>There seem to be two schools of thought here:  The first is that skimming 
>the scum is a good thing because it helps prevent those nasty boilovers as 
>well as providing you with something to do while waiting for the long boil 
>to get done and over with.  This seems to be the predominant school of thought.
 
>The second school seems to feel that skimming the scum is at best a waste of 
>time and at worst is removing some of the head forming/retention stuff.  One 
>respondent seemed to think that all the scum stuff (techical term) would 
>eventually drop out in the trub.

The scum is actually the infamous Hot Break.  It is literally cooked protein
and, according to DeClerck, *must* be removed.  Yes, it will settle out with
the cold break.  No, removing it does not reduce head retention because it is
made from the large (haze-forming) proteins and not the small (head-retaining)
proteins.  The fact that removing it does reduce the chances of boilover is
an added benefit.  Personally, I skim.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 16:03:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mark J. Wilk" <mw5w+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: fermentation ?'s


Just did an extract ale.  Pitched the yeast two days ago, at 78 degrees,
and I still have not seen an fermentaion.  Can someone give me a short
list of possible problems.  From here, I hope to be enlightened as to
what I could have done wrong.  Thanks in advance.

Mark

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 16:40:50 -0400
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
Subject: Yet more on labels (bugs)

	I have been South of the Border for the last week and just now had a 
chance to read the last eight issues of the digest. <whew!>

	I have one question about the practice of sticking labels on bottles 
using milk----doesn't it attract bugs?

	I have used milk successfully to adhere labels but my wife 
immediately got concerned about the bug angle.  My solution?  I sprayed _Off_ 
bug repellent into the milk solution <no connection to _Off_, blah, blah.>  
So far, so good.
                     
	Is the bug problem a valid concern when using milk for labels?

Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan at fdic.gov
"Standard disclaimers apply"

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 17:49:55 -0400
From: chamber at sunland.gsfc.nasa.gov (Keith Chamberlin)
Subject: Stuck Belgian Ferment?

I brewed a Belgian Triple last week, OG 1.092, all grain, and
pitched probably about 20 oz of slurry that I recovered from
the end of a Belgian Single ferment, 1.049.  I went away for
a week and didn't even know if it was going to ferment but
when I returned I was glad to see the airlock slowly bubbling
and the marks on the carboy indicate that the krausen had risen
and fallen.  I checked the gravity and it was only 1.060!  I
know I didn't aerate very well, believe me I wanted to but don't
have the equipment yet.  Will soon though.  I was wondering what
I should do.  I think I will grow up some more yeast and repitch.
Any thoughts other than just wait and see?  I am using the Westmalle
yeast cultured from the bottle and have been told others have had
stuck ferments with it when doing high gravity brews such as this.  I
have used it before on a batch of double aroudn 1.065 and it worked
fine except for some sluggishness after racking.  

Also had a question about Belgian specialty grains.  How come most
of the roasted grains, chocolate, black, unmalted, have higher
Lovibond ratings than English and American grains.  I asked this
once before but didn't get any response.

Thanks,
keith

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1829, 09/12/95