FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  proteolysis & wheat malt/yeast blowoff/hops & head/carbonation problems (Algis R Korzonas)
  3068 Weinstephan Yeast (Brad Owen)
  Water Treatment Concerns/Weissbier (A. J. deLange)
  Beer Marketing and "The Carbonator" (Steve Peters)
  Beer drinking in the Frankfurt Germany area (Martin Wilde)
  Homebrewers in The Sun (MrMike656)
  HCl/Coffee porter/Hops and head (Philip Gravel)
  Getting  Steamed Up (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  Re: Mash Tun Percolator? / Steam pump (Kevin McEnhill)
  Flying Dog Clones ("Richard Scotty")
  Dean Miller's forgotten beer ("Mark MANVILLE")
  RE boiling on electric stoves (TimFields)
  Rehydrating Irish Moss (TRoat)
  Coffee brewing (Dave Draper)
  Re: Coffee / Chocolate Brews (NathanMead)
  more on St. Pats (Mike Lelivelt)
  Help!!!! Is my Malt OK????? (Jim Turner)
  *minimasher* question (PatrickM50)
  pears (Roel ten Klei)
  RE making lighter colored brews / forgotten beer (TimFields)
  Airstones/RePitching Yeast (dflagg)
  Beer in Florida ("ED KENDALL         252-3436")



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 17:04:59 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: proteolysis & wheat malt/yeast blowoff/hops & head/carbonation problems

Russ writes, quoting Rob:
>> For the fun of experimentation, I've tried boiling the wheat portion of a
>> wheat beer without barley and I've gotten a very thick gluey mess.  Doing
>> this again with a small portion of barley and resting at 65'C, it thins
>> right out.  I know another brewer who has had the same experience. 
> 
>That sounds like a protease effect, not an amylase effect.  Did you try 
>doing the 65C rest _without_ adding malted barley?

It does sound like protease, but it can also be what's called "liquifaction,"
I believe.  Liquifaction is done by alpha amylase and is the breaking down
of starches into dextrins and smaller carbohydrates.  65C is at the low end
of the amylase range, where beta amylase is active along with alpha amylase.
I don't know whether or not wheat malt has both alpha and beta amylase, but
I suspect it does.  Wheat malt actually has a lot MORE amylase than barley
malt.  Protease is most active between 55C and 60C, so I would rule out
protease acitivity at 65C.

***
John writes:
>OK, now for a crazy idea: has anyone used the blowoff to collect yeast?  

Sure, Bass, Marston's... the priciple behind the Burton Union system
includes (among other things) the ability to collect yeast via the blowoff.
The problems for us homebrewers is sanitation and, as John said, separating
the yeast from the "grimy blow-off."  Another problem might be that if the
yeast is very flocculant, you may blow off too much of the yeast.

***
Aaron writes:
>     I also heard that dry hopping or using a hop-back will improve
>the head retention of the finished beer.

I too have read that hops do improve head retention, but I suspect this was
boiling/flavouring hops.  Oils always reduce head retention and it's the
oil of the hops that you are interested in (are extracting) during
dryhopping.

***
Steve writes:
>Tim Fields complains of carbonation problems even when he used a lot of 
>priming sugar.  

That reminded me of something... did you boil the bottlecaps to sanitize
them?  If so, the plastic liners may have deformed enough so that a tight
seal is not made with the bottle.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 16:25:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brad Owen <bowen at mindcrime.ax.com>
Subject: 3068 Weinstephan Yeast

Another data point on this thread. I have a batch of beer with this yeast 
that has been fermenting for nearly 3 weeks now: 5 days in the primary 
and the rest in a secondary. Does this yeast never quit? The temp has 
been about 70--as close as I can tell since I don't have a refrigerator 
to ferment it. The recipe is half barley half wheat 8lbs total (extract 
recipe). I think it should stop by this weekend since it is down to a 
bubble about every 40 seconds. Odd thing is, I took a gravity reading 
when I racked to the secondary and it was at 21. 10 days later it was 
still at 21, although fermentation had continued steadily. How can that be?



Bradley Owen
Philosophy Dept.
San Diego State University

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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 19:45:53 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Water Treatment Concerns/Weissbier

In No. 1825 Phil Hofstrand asked some reasonable questions about how to use
the water formulations which have been posted recently. While I tried to
make this point several times throughout the series it is worth repeating:
The series tells you how to formulate, for example, Munich water but not
how to use it to best effect with best effect meaning the production of a
beer which closely resembles the target style. To acheive this you must
emulate the practices of the brewers in the target city. If you use Munich
water as is to make a dark Munich style beer you will probably be
successful because the original Munich brewers didn't treat their water.
They didn't know how. That is why the dark Munich beers are the way they
are. Eventually, along came the industrial revolution with its technology
and understanding of water chemistry. Removal of the carbonate hardness
drops the alkalinity of the water enough to make it possible to produce the
soft a helles style beers. Thus you must remove the carbonate hardness as
well (or not add it in to begin with) if you are to produce a good
representatation of a Helles.

Phil asked about whether brewing practices, in particular large volume
reductions in the kettle, influence the concentrations of ions in the beer.
I think the the answer to this must be "yes" but what actually happens may
not be that easy to determine because of the variety and complexity of the
reactions that take place in the kettle and fermenter and the fact that
many of the inorganic constituents of the final product come from the grain
as well as the water. For example, the fermentation of lagers brewed with
extremely soft (low sulfate) water are often accompanied by the production
of incredible amounts of sulfides where the sulfur comes from certain of
the amino acids in the malt.

Which brings us to Phil's final question as to whether the association of
sulfate with hops bitterness is due to an organoleptic synergism between
sulfate ion and hops components in the beer or a reaction between them in
the kettle. I certainly don't know the answer to this but note that sulfate
in the kettle enhances the floral aroma of hops in the beer and as one
cannot smell sulfate ion conclude that this must be due to a chemical
reaction in the boil. I suppose the same could be true of flavoring
components but the principal reaction in the boil is one of isomerization.
On the other hand sulfate synergistically enhances impressions of
bitterness especially in the presence of magnesium and malt supplies a fair
amount of magnesium to the finished beer.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In No. 1832 Don Rudolph wrote about ester and 4-vinyl guaiacol production
in Bavarian wheat beers.  The explanation given for 4-vinyl guaiacol is
actually accurate for ester production i.e. it is esters which are produced
as by-products of amino acid metabolism. The products of this metabolism
contribute to the oxyacid pool and some of these acids are reduced to
higher (fusel) alcohols. These react with acyl-coenzyme A compounds,
derived from acetyl coenzyme A (from pyruvate) and fats, to form the
various esters. High temperature tends to promote formation of both fusels
and esters. Limiting oxygen during the growth phase makes acetyl coenzyme A
which would otherwise go into sterol synthesis available for acyl CoA and
hence increased ester formation.

4-vinyl guaicol, conversely, comes from decarboxylation of ferulic acid
which is bound to the pentosans in malt. Given a yeast that are able to do
this (pull off the CO2), the most important factor in production of this
stuff is that the ferulic acid be unbound from the pentosans. Warner
indicates that this is facillitated by a rest at 44C at pH 5.7.

I can't agree that Warner recommends pitching at high temperature. He cites
a rule of thumb for superior weissbier which calls for a pitching
temperature which, when added to the fermentation temperature. gives 30C.
He states that common practice is to pitch at 12C (54F) and ferment at 18C
(64F). He also gives an example in which the yeast are pitched at 17C (63F)
in which case fermentation is carried out at 13-15C (55-59F). I have always
used the 12/18 combination with the Wyeast 3068 and have always been
pleased with the clove/bananna balance. The bananna seems to disappear
after several weeks, however, but the clove remains strong.



A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com



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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 17:09:55 -0700
From: stevep at pcx.ncd.com (Steve Peters)
Subject: Beer Marketing and "The Carbonator"


In the last digest:

>>      term 'red' has been used a lot lately (Red Dog, Red Wolf, etc.)
>
>Funny you should mention those two.  Those aren't reds, those are just plain
>lagers, or perhaps premium lagers.  Like they say "The Dog is red, the beer
>isn't."  I think they only called them that to confuse and frustrate people
>in order to muck up Leiny's and other "real" Reds market shares.  Not sure.
>Oddly enough, they are pretty popular.  Those two beers are, IMO, so very
>close in style, if not in quality, to a standard north american lager, that
>they aren't really a distinct category.  (If given the choice between Coors
>and Red Dog, I'll take the Dog.)  I think there might be a smidgeon of very
>light crystal malt in Red Dog and Red Wolf, and maybe people think they taste
>a little like Red beers that are actually Red.

After much thinking my homebrew buddies and I have figured out a way of
understanding the marketing ploys of the majors:  they have figured out that
the majority of the beer drinking market has the following requirements from a
malt beverage:

1) must be cheap
2) must not overtax the tounge (must not have any strong flavors which might
offend)
3) must have an image to relate to (usually, party-boy, "bad" boy, rebel,
wildman, strongman, attracts-sexually-aroused-women-man...)

Also, to keep the drinking public's interest a new marketing gimic must be
invented from time to time.  Thus the procession from "dry" to "ice" to "red".
 It isn't important for these beers to taste any different, it's the label that
counts.  In fact, if you can think up a new three letter word they can hang a
marketing campaign around, open an advertising company and start soaking in the
cash.  Probably actual "taste" and "flavor" is the least important factor after
price and image.

- ---- actual question!  ---

I bought one of those "carbonator" gadgets for pressurizing homebrew in 2-litre
plastic soda bottles.  I haven't used it yet, just emptied my first 2-litre o'
Coca-Cola today.  I'm wondering if I'll need a "Carbonator" for each 2-litre I
want to fill with beer, or can I fill the bottle with beer, carbonate it, put
on the old cap, and use the Carbonator on another bottle of beer?


- -- 
Steve Peters

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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 15:17:00 PDT
From: Martin Wilde <Martin_Wilde at ccm.jf.intel.com>
Subject: Beer drinking in the Frankfurt Germany area


I have a choice next month of travelling through Frankfurt or Zurich.  I 
would be able to stay a day while traveling at either city.  Any 
recommendations about where to stay or drink?  What is the distance from 
Frankfurt to Munich?


thanks
martin

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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 22:46:37 -0400
From: MrMike656 at aol.com
Subject: Homebrewers in The Sun

     Had to set aside all the questions and comments I was going to post for
this shocking story, which appeared in the September issue of the supermarket
tabloid The Sun.
     The headline screams "HOME-BREW MANIAC ALMOST DROWNS IN HIS BEER". 
The story goes on to relate the tale of the poor stupid first-time homebrewer
who "sampled too much of his own sauce and toppled headfirst into a vat of
the product."
His wife came home early from work after getting a phone call that their dog,
Scruff was "barking alarmingly." ("What Scruffy? You mean you want us to
follow you? Do I want a beer? Good dog!") She discovered her husband head
first and unconscious in a (get this) 30 gallon (!) vat of beer he was
supposed to be bottling. "I guess I was drinking one bottle for every bottle
I was capping and got wasted," was his explanation. He says his days as a
brewer are over.

     Ahem. I suppose we _should_ consider the source of this story. I didn't
try calling the guy to confirm this (his name and town is printed in The Sun.
Someone gave the article to me - I didn't buy it. And if you don't want to
either, I suggest reading it while waiting on line at the food store.), but
how many first time brewers brew with a 30 GALLON vat?

     But more importantly - is his beer ruined?

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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 22:03 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: HCl/Coffee porter/Hops and head

===> Dave Bradley asks about HCl sources:

>	My questions: 1. Anyone know of a good place to buy food-grade
>		hydrochloric acid (dilute I'm sure)?  I would like
>		to use this with my sparge water, but I need a
>		source, or at least some possible sources.

I'm not sure hydrochloric acid is a good choice for controlling the
pH of sparge water.  It has no buffering capacity.  If you want to use
an acid rather than a mineral like gypsum, phosphoric acid (inorganic)
or lactic acid (organic) would be better choices.

===> James S. Bayer asks about brewing a coffee porter:

> I plan to brew a oatmeal/honey/coffee porter and am trying to decide when,
>where and how to introduce the coffee.
>
>My options, as far as I can see, are:
>
>1.)  Brew the coffee (strong-ish) and add to the boil.
>2.)  Add the grounds to the boil in a cheesecloth and steep (how long??)
>3.)  Dry hop with ground coffee
>4.)  Mash it with the grain.

5.) Brew a strong coffee and add it to the fermenter after you've cooled
    the wort to pitching temperature.

You don't want to boil coffee.  It ruins the taste.  That's why drip
brewed coffee has virtually replace coffee brewed by percolation.

===> Aaron Shaw asks about the effect of hops on the beer head

>     I also heard that dry hopping or using a hop-back will improve
>the head retention of the finished beer. I checked the hop faq and 
>found no mention of this. Is it true?

In my experience it is.  I brewed a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that used
3 oz of hops for dry hopping.  The beer had the most incredible head
I've ever seen.  If I opened a bottle (not a geyser) and let it sit
for a few minutes, a "snake" of foam would begin to rise out of the
bottle.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel   Lisle, Illinois               pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 95 20:53:57 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Getting  Steamed Up

Jim Busch writes,
>It seems to me that you have designed a 
>wonderful, flexible brewery but cant be content with normal brewing processes
>and want to emulate some giant brewer.  There is basically no need for any of
>this. <snip snip>
He's right of course, but I'm interested why mega brewers spend millions on 
these systems when traditional techniques are simple and effective. Home 
brewers have many advantages, and  we are slowly reverse engineering to  home 
scale technology, copies of commercial brewing techniques where it has quality 
advantages. (Electronic mash control, counter pressure filling)

I do need total sterilization for micro-brewed bottle-conditioned production. I 
do need to control melanoid reactions as I can't brew everything from English 
pale malt. I was only concerned if my proposed temperature regime would have 
negative effects on my traditional methods of DMS  removal. (boil long-cool 
short)
Sailors got by very well with wooden masts and sextants for centuries, now they 
are rare. Aluminium and sat nav has taken over. Brewing, like sailing, relies 
heavily on a lot of experience and a fair bit of intuition. With all my sailing 
and brewing gadgets, I'll never  sail as well as  Captain Cook and probably not 
brew as well as Jim Busch. However if I experiment and learn from homebrewers 
and megabrewers alike, my beer won't suffer for lack of understanding.
 .
>If you have a steam boiler, steam heating is very gentle and will give
>less caramelization than direct fired kettles.

Steam is also very useful for transferring large ammounts of heat quickly. The 
lack of caramelization comes from no boundary layer on the kettle bottom to 
overheat. Stirring reduces caramelization.

 Kevin Mc Enhilt posts about steam infused mashing and Philip Gravel writes
>Another problem is has to do with your assumption about how steam behaves
>when it enters water.  The steam bubbles will not remain as bubbles, but
>rather will collapse almost immediately as the water vapor condenses into
>liquid by the cooler water of the mash.  Thus there will be little circul-
>ation of water induced by the bubbling itself.  There may be some due to
>the thermal gradients where the just heated water due to steam injection
>will tend to rise.
He's right of course. Stirring worts during mashing is always useful, no matter 
what the heating technique.

Also a pressure cooker can't give you the full advantages of steam without a 
header tank and it needs some valves, don't use the pressure release as an 
outlet!

 In step infusion mashing when you add quantities of boiling water, the 
temperature rise is quick, allowing precise rests to favour fermentability or 
body. The protein rest can also be skipped as per George Fix's suggested 
40-60-70 mash for lagers. In decoction, the steps are similarily well defined 
except the thick part of the mash is removed and boiled, which aids 
gelatinization of starch. (bursting the cell walls) Nature is a bit of a 
bugger, putting the gelatinization point of starch above the optimum 
temperature for the  enzyme conversion of it! Decoction's advantage is that the 
thin part of the wort contains most of the enzymes and the thick part most of 
the starch. This boil also seems to add flavour via caramelization and the 
gelatinized starch seems to convert differently and more completely.

With steam, a 10 degree celsius step up in mash temperature can be achieved by 
adding 1.8 kilos of steam (1.8 litres water vapourizad) for every 100 litres 
wort.
 For a *infusion* of steam and a gentle temperature rise, you will need  the 
appropriate ammount of water, a pressure cooker with standard release valve and 
a steam valve *pressure welded* into the lid, a steam coupling attached to 
steam hose (by your hose supplier who will pressure test it -- no simple hose 
clamps please!) You will also need a coupling welded onto a length of metal 
tube. This tube is shaped to reach the bottom of your mash tun and then coils 
around the bottom like an oppossum's prehensile tail. Block the end and 
perforate the coiled bit with a drill. This is you steam manifold. All the 
plumbing can be made safe by a pressure boilermaker. BTW fix the metal tube to 
the side of your mash tun, you don't want to be waving a steam wand around the 
room when the valve is opened.
When you open the valve the head of steam will discharge very quickly and even 
if the water still in the pressure cooker is say 160C, only 9% of it will 
quickly convert to steam, reducing the temp in that cooker to 100C. Then you 
will have to add heat and even on the hottest stove, the output of steam is 
pretty slow. However the steam will enter the thick part of the wort and heat 
it first, aiding gelatinization and slowly raising the thin part's temperature 
by convection or gentle stirring, much like the effect of RIMS. With a steam 
setup, why use RIMS?

On the other hand, if you use steam  *injection*,(dumping a large head quickly 
in the thick mash) you can emulate decoction and step infusion. The catch is 
that there must be sufficient room for all the water to be steam at say 5 ATM. 
At 5 ATM the max steam temp is about 145C ( 418K). That doesn't matter much as 
the*latent heat of condensation* is what you are using to heat your mash. But 
Volume= (mass x temp(in Kelvin) x R (gas constant))/pressure.  For steam R=0.231
For each kg steam (1 litre water vapourized) you will need (1kg x 418K x 
0.231)/506 kPa  = 190 litre tank rated to 5 ATM! That is serious scrounging!
If this is infused quickly into the thick part of the mash it raises the 
temperature of that part above the gelatinization point of starch, the 
temperature gradient will spread the heat slowly by convection of quickly by 
stirring, protecting your enzymes in the thin part.
 Forget RIMS and decoction if you have steam, it does the same thing. It is 
similar to decoction mashing in gelatinization but not caramelization. The 
brewery builders we love to hate, Alfa Laval, decoct with steam and a partial 
vacuum. (for gelatinization, remember it is bursting the cell) If you have a 
diaphram pump and a sealable mash tun, try the steam injection when the tun is 
at 0.5 ATM, very dramatic! Instant low temperature  boil of the thick mash, 
diffusing the temperature to the desired rest throughout the tun.
Using steam *injection* you can jump to mashing rests very quickly, like 
"bucket o boiling water" step infusion, or slowly, or you can gelatinize like 
RIMS and decoction. The boiler can be just a pressure cooker, but finding a 
pressure tank about the size you need is the challange. They can be 
supprisingly cheap.

If you want to go seriously to steam, email me. I will take the time to answer 
all you questions for safety's sake alone, I will enjoy it for beer's sake.

Charlie   (Brisbane, Aust)

PS Algis, this thermodynamics is hot and  thirsty work, open one for me will 
you?






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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 10:40:06 -0400
From: kevinm at rocdec.roc.wayne.edu (Kevin McEnhill)
Subject: Re: Mash Tun Percolator? / Steam pump

In HBD #1833, you said;

     Darned if I could come up with a good explanation why the old "coffee 
     pot percolator approach" isn't used in the mash tun (instead of 
     stiring the mash).  Someone jog my memory.  Must be the temperature, 
     which is sub-boiling.  Or else the bottom-to-top temperature gradient 
     is relatively small.  But if temperature is the only reason for "why 
     it won't self-percolate", then why couldn't you use a false bottom 
     with a (sump) pump for manually recirculating wort?  Why hastle with 
     motors and belts and stainless steel paddles (that crash into your 
     mash tun drain tubes)?  Move the wort, not the grain.


Well, That is the basic idea of what I was aiming for a few issues back when
I sugested using steam to heat and move the wort. I think you can use steam
bubbles in a tube like in under gravle filters in fish tanks. I was told by
a couple of people that recirculating the wort was not nessisary for clear
running wort, I wasn't even thinking about that (but now that you mention it
 ...), I was recirculating to maintain an even temperature in the grain. The
thing that might have stabed me in the back was that the bubbles would
colapse once the enter the 'cold' wort. Well I'm going to take the typical
engineers approach and say "HOOWEY!" and try it any way (if you guys were
closer, I'd bet some homebrew :-).
**********************************************************************
*                             *  /|~~~~~| I was told by my wife that *
* kevinm at rocdec.roc.wayne.edu * | |     | if I brew one more batch   *
*                             * | |     | of beer she would leave me!*
* Kevin McEnhill              *  \|     |                            *
*                             *   |_____|  I'm going to miss her :-) *
**********************************************************************


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Date: 16 Sep 1995 09:33:36 -0700
From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com>
Subject: Flying Dog Clones

I've been pondering an attempt to come close to Flying Dog's "Doggie Style". 
I love this beer and if you're ever in the Denver area and can get a fresh
bottle, I highly recommend you do so.  Going to Vail is even better, but
substantially expensive these days :-(.

Any datapoints regarding your own attempts would be greatly appreciated. 
Private e-mail please and I'll share the information as requested.

TIA,
Rich Scotty - Chief keg cleaner - The Crapshoot Brewery.

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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 95 11:22:57 CDT
From: "Mark MANVILLE" <Mark.Manville at ccmail.adp.wisc.edu>
Subject: Dean Miller's forgotten beer

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 16:26:30 -0400
genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael Genito) wrote:
>Dean Miller recalls a forgotten bottle of beer story in HBD 1830:
>>I brewed an IPA in the beginning of '94..........This past Sunday, 9/10/95, I
>>>was looking through this same friend's refigerator
>>and, lo and behold, what should I find but a bottle of this same batch of IPA.
>>
>>I thought to myself, myself.. this is probably septic fodder, but I opened it
>>and tried it.  It was the best bottle of IPA I have ever had.  It was smooth,
>>no harsh edges, and had a mellow character to it that I would not ever have
>>believed.
>Ditto. I once made a cream ale that tasted mediocre at up to 2 months. I
>forgot about it and it sat in the basement until I rediscovered it a year
>later. It turned out to be one of my best brews ever.
>
>To the newbies out there - dont throw the ugly ducklings away, they often
>turn out to be late bloomers.

Just to put a data point on the other end of the spectrum, I stumbled upon
an extract Irish Stout 6-pack in the basement at Christmas 1993.  I don't 
know exactly when I brewed this, but I think it must have been late '88/
early '89.   You'd think stout would age the best, but ... blech.  I think for 
periods up to a year things can improve (maybe longer for higher 
alconhol/certain ingredients), but much past that it would probably need 
refigeration (like Dean had) to give much chance for good results.

  E.g. it took over 8 months for a heavily ginger-spiked porter I made
Feb '94 to hit its stride.  This after I had to dump the first bottle I tried
because it was too harsh (one month in bottle).  But the small amount I 
held onto until early this summer was definitely beyond its peak (I did 
not refrigerate).   Still great to boil hot italian sausage with though :)


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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 13:33:24 -0400
From: TimFields at aol.com
Subject: RE boiling on electric stoves

In # 1833, Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> asks:
>I'm not convinced
>I can bring 8 gallons of wort to a decent boil with my electric stove.
 Anyone
>have any thoughts on this?
I doubt it would work on my electric stove, and even if it did, it would
probably destroy the stove eventually.  I am already experiencing staining
and heat discoloration from using a 5 gal pot (16 batches).  In an effort to
reduce stove damage, and also to lesson wort darkening resulting from direct
pot contact with the burner, I made a trivet from coat hanger.  Result was
the wort wouldn't boil any more.  This was with 3 to 3.5 gal wort.

My last stove batch is this weekend; getting a 10 gal pot and propane setup
next week.  The stove and my SO are both very happy, and I get to introduce
the neighbors to the smell of boiling wort :-)
My suggestion is to look into propane setups.

 -Tim

timf at relay.com
"Beers me"

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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 15:01:55 -0400
From: TRoat at aol.com
Subject: Rehydrating Irish Moss

A couple months back I asked whether Irish Moss needs to be rehydrated prior
to use.  The general concensus was NO!  However, in the July\August issue of
Brewing Techniques (pg 22) the following statement was made: 
"When using Irish Moss, it is important to rehydrate the material before
adding it to the kettle.  For a 10 gallon batch, combine 1 tbsp Irish Moss
with water and let stand overnight or for several hours.  Add it at knockout
or within 15 minutes of knockout."

Is this news to the entire collective since so many replied to my previous
post that they had never heard of rehydrating IM?  Advantages/disadvantages?
 Also, what is the "Knockout?"  Thanks to one and all!

Todd W. Roat  (TRoat at aol.com)
 ......Too much of everything is just enough.....

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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 08:49:17 +1000
From: david.draper at mq.edu.au (Dave Draper)
Subject: Coffee brewing

Dear Friends, re: the recent posts about using coffee in dark beers (and
others too!).  I've used coffee in one of my stout recipes lots of times and
have really enjoyed it.  However, my taste is for a much more subtle effect.
I don't want the taster to say "Wow--coffee" immediately upon drinking it,
but only to notice a new and different flavor that helps the others marry
more effectively.

I've done two things:  1.  Add some grounds to the last 5 or 10 min. of the
boil; 2. Pour brewed, cooled coffee into the primary at pitching time.  Both
work well and give the desired effect, and in my experience do nothing to
damage heading.  Amounts: about 2 tablespoons or so ground coffee (use the
good stuff) or one large mug of quite strong brewed coffee.  This gives a
flavor that, for my tasters at least, is not immediately recognizable, but
once you tell them it's coffee they have no trouble picking it out.  

BTW I have only ever used Wyeast 1084 Irish on these beers; I don't have any
info on how different strains might make use of the coffee notes.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"Yeast are forgiving unless you really insult them."  ---Dan McConnell
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au  Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
                ...I'm not from here, I just live here...


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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 19:16:19 -0400
From: NathanMead at aol.com
Subject: Re: Coffee / Chocolate Brews

In HBD 1832 James S. Bayer" <jbayer at lnb_dev.abn.com> wrote:
>    I'm looking for advice from anyone who has brewed with coffee and/or
chocolate.
>    I plan to brew a oatmeal/honey/coffee porter and am trying to decide
when,
>    where and how to introduce the coffee.

In regards to chocolate part of the post, here is our recipe for our 1st
attempt at brewing with chocolate.  Sorta bastardized Papazian.
 In my opinion, it was a little too malty,  maybe cut the Dark DME down to
1/2 - 1 lb.
Also, the chocolate left a white film (cocoa butter?) around the edges of the
carboys (1st and 2nd) and even in the bottle.  I'm pretty sure that it wasn't
bacterial, but it was a PIA to remove.   Anyway, it was very chocolatey (not
sweet, but bitter) and rich, more like a stout, also I think (the chocolate?)
was the cause of mild headaches for me (noone else seemed to get them though)
 Definitely a beer worth altering / repeating and I'm not even a big fan of
chocolate anything.    

Nate
P.S.   I don't yet have the guts for an "espresso" stout, kinda gives new
meaning to 
           "Beer isn't just for breakfast anymore"  though!  :-]

Willy Wonka Porter (chocolate)                                            5
Gallons

6.6 lbs Amber Extract  (Ireks Bavarian, I think)                     O.G
    1.065
1 1/2 lbs Dark Dry Extract
                                                 F.G     1.022
1/2 lb Chocolate malt
1/2 lb Crystal
1/4 lb Black Patent Malt
3/4 lb Unsweetened Bakers Chocolate [Hershey's]
8 oz Malto Dextrin
2 oz Northern Brewer (pellets) 6.9% AAU
1/2 oz Cascade 4.9% AAU

WYeast # 1056

Steep grains in 2 gallons of 150 F water. Strain out grains and add malt
extracts. Bring to a boil.
Boil for 10 minutes and add 2 oz N. Brewer hops.  Boil for 35 minutes and add
1/2 oz of Cascade hops.
Boil for 10 minutes and turn off heat. Cool, Transfer to Primary fermenter.
 Topup to 5.5 gallons.  Pitch yeast when cool. Ferment at 60 - 70 for 1 week.
 Rack to secondary and ferment to completion.
Prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar and bottle.
Takes 4 weeks to carbonate well.


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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:39:04 -0400
From: lelivelt at med.unc.edu (Mike Lelivelt)
Subject: more on St. Pats

For what it's worth, I e mailed an order to St. Pat's on Monday 9/4.  I
received no confirming reply (via e mail!).  I called (with my own dime)
them on Thursday, 9/7.  They said it was shipped on Wednesday 9/6.  I
finally received the package on Thursday 9/14 (a week later).  It was
shipped UPS second day air.  I went to UPS tracking on WWW.  They had not
shipped the package until 9/12. Obviously they had lied (intentional or
not) to me when I questioned them on the phone.  They told me they were
very busy.  Sorry but this is not an excuse.  I know how I'll solve this
problem.  Mike Lelivelt

=======================================================================
Mike Lelivelt                                      lelivelt at med.unc.edu
Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill                 919-408-0451 home
Dept of Microbiology & Immunology                  BJCP Certified Judge
=======================================================================



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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:18:10 -0400
From: jcturner at radix.net (Jim Turner)
Subject: Help!!!! Is my Malt OK?????

        Well at least it isn't all over the kitchen.  

        I've been buying Muntons' Light Malt Extract in the 15 kg
plastic/vinyl jugs for a couple of months.  Last Sat I opened a new one and
used about 10 or 12 lbs.  This morning, while I was looking for the lysol
uder our kitchen sink, I noticed that the jug was A WHOLE LOT ROUNDER.  

        When I opened it it smelled of fermentation and had about 1/2 to 1
inch of bubbles on top of the remaining 20 lbs of malt extract.  Having
squashed the jug back into a more cubic configuration, I'm planning to check
it regularly to avoid malt armagedon. 

        My questions:

        1.  I assume the stuff is still usable given the small amount of O2
in the jug.  Am I right?

        2.   Should I only brew reds, darks & large brews with it, or is a
pilsner still a potable possiblity?

        3.  Is there some precaution I should be taking to avoid
contamination, or was this more likely a bug aleady in the stuff that was
activated  by the O2 when the jug was opened [now that I think back, there
were a few foamy bubbles in the stuff when I bought it]?

        TIA for any thoughts via private email, or if folks think this kind
of  thing is aa matter of general interest, via general post.

        Jim


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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 11:43:35 -0400
From: PatrickM50 at aol.com
Subject: *minimasher* question

Nir Navot wrote recently:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes!!! Let me introduce the MiniMasher(tm)!!! Just take your old Thermos
bottle, pour into it your 0.5 lb of ground malt, a pint to 1.5 pints water
at 150, mix the contents with that wooden thing, close the top, wait an
hour - done. No change in temp, no mixing of mash, full conversion.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Clever idea, Nir.  How long do you boil this small amount of wort after
conversion?  I've generally boiled starter DME for at least 5 minutes but
have not used grain yet in making starters.

Pat

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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 95 18:30:35 +0100 GMT
From: roel at ichthus.lifenet.nl (Roel ten Klei)
Subject: pears


Hallo brewers!

some time ago I read something about add pears to the beer.
please tell me how much I schould add.
and please react to me directly, because I am not reading
always the digest.

==> Groeten, Roel ten Klei, Veenendaal, The Netherlands
==> internet-adress: roel at ichthus.lifenet.nl
==>                  \|/
==>   keep the whole  at   at  world singing
==> \------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------/


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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 12:50:38 -0400
From: TimFields at aol.com
Subject: RE making lighter colored brews / forgotten beer

In #1833, GeepMaley at aol.com writes:
>Any input into how to make lighter colored brews with LME? My last
>batch was 5 gallons with 5 lbs light extract and 1.5 lbs honey. Color?
>Yup.....amber.
I've found it about impossible to brew a light colored beer with extract.
 The fact I do partial boils (boiling maybe 3 gal wort, then adding water in
the primary to top up to 5 gal) makes matters worse because concentrated
worts tend to darken/caramelize more.  I assume you are in the same boat.

To product a lighter beer, I've found it helpful to increase the amount of
grain and decrease the amount of extract accordingly - partial mash.  The
last beer I made (an IPA) was the lightest I've done.  it used 6 lb brit
2-row pale malt, 1/5 lb crystal, and 3 lb extra pale M&F DME.   OG 1060.
  Note the EXTRA pale DME.  Re LME, try alexanders (I think they have an
extra pale version of their LME). 

genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael Genito) writes re Dean Miller's forgotten
beer that sat in the frig for a year and a half or so:

>Ditto. I once made a cream ale that tasted mediocre at up to 2 months. I
>forgot about it and it sat in the basement until I rediscovered it a year
>later. It turned out to be one of my best brews ever.
What temperature did it sit at in your basement?

 -Tim
timf at relay.com
"Beers me"

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Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:01:29 -0400
From: dflagg at agate.net
Subject: Airstones/RePitching Yeast

 Rob Emenecker recently wrote about SS Airstones...

I have been using an aquarium pump/airstone setup for a long time
to aerate my wort.  The stone is direct from my local pet store 
(don't remember what I paid for it, but it wasn't much) and I 
sterilize it by boiling (yes boiling!!).  This doesn't seem to hurt
it in any way.

I attach the stone to the end of a straight racking rod which goes
thru an orange carboy cap.  On top of the cap I have a homemade
filter which uses sterile cotton balls as the filtering material.

I sanitize the racking rod, carboy cap, and filter housing in bleach.
My hose from air pump to filter housing is -not- sanitized.  It's
very small diameter hose which would be very difficult to dry.  I
have yet to have any infection attributable to this setup.

==================================================================

Dan McConnell writes:

> I urge everyone to think like a probrewer, not a homebrewer.
> REPITCH!  That's what the professional brewers do, amateurs 
> should too. I'll get to that in a minute.

Very good advise, BUT......

I'm finishing up on a Pale Ale and I want to brew a Pilsner next.
What do I do??  Use my Ale yeast dregs to brew the Pilsner.  Not!

That's the big difference between the professional brewers and us
professional homebrewers.  The other guys put the same brew out the
door day after day, THAT'S why they can (and do) reuse their yeast.
I brew a different brew every time so I guess I'll just have to 
start a new yeast every time also...


************************************************************
Doug Flagg                  |  "A Homebrew a day...
dflagg at orono.sdi.agate.net  |   Keeps the Worries away!"
************************************************************

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Date:          Mon, 18 Sep 1995 09:57:45 JST
From: "ED KENDALL 252-3436" <C375 at gollum.sas.mrms.navy.mil>
Subject:       Beer in Florida

Hi All, I will be travelling around Jacksonville, Orlando and Tampa 
for a few weeks in October.  I am totally unfamiliar with the area.  
If you know of any fine brews or watering holes I should check out 
while there, please send me the info by e-mail.  TIA, Ed




                     +----------------------------------+
                     |            Ed Kendall            |
                     |           Sasebo, Japan          |
                     |   c375 at gollum.sas.mrms.navy.mil  |
                     +----------------------------------+

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1834, 09/18/95