FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  International orders (Steve Madsen)
  Re: Yeast for bread?/signatures (Carl Etnier)
  new UK hop varieties ("Dr. Gillian Grafton")
  Re:   Legislating drugs out of existence (Tim Fields)
  what did i do? (Evan_Still)
  Competition advice... (Robert_Ser)
  Grainger (DONBREW)
  the kitchen sink (DONBREW)
  Brewing and Kids (John DeCarlo              )
  recipe scaling? (Jim Sims)
  More Infusion Terminology (John DeCarlo              )
  mail order Gott cooler (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  lauter-tun miracles ("Andrew D. Kailhofer")
  Useless faucet; Lauter tun (Michael Genito)
  Infusion question (Russell Mast)
  Re - Brewing and Sinks (D. Scott Gardner)
  Re: Grainger Business-Only (hollen)
  Carboy stuff (Robert.Fike)
  stuck fermentation results (Neal Parker)
  Vanilla in Beer ("Herb B. Tuten")
  Re:Faucets (Paul D. Wiatroski)
  Re: Glucan and Wheat.. (Dan Sherman)
  Hydrometer Readings. (Russell Mast)
  Assembling lautering manifold (Neal Christensen)
  Online competition call for entries (RCBEER)
  Carbonator/Rims Q (Tim Short)
  The Word (Dave Draper)
  little white dots (Rolland Everitt)
  RE: finding good competitions (uswlsrap)
  Papazian Holiday cheer (Slyboyy)
  27-mm cappers (Elde)
  Nitrogen in beer/cold plates/beer lines (bra427)
  Nitrogen in beer,cold plate construction,beer lines cool (bra427)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:20:12 +0900
From: tomio at ai.mew.co.jp (Steve Madsen)
Subject: International orders

Hi everybody,

I'm currently brewing my first batch here in Osaka, Japan (following
John Palmer's instructions for a basic Ale), but I'm starting to 
think of the future . . .

As you can imagine, decent raw materials for homebrewing are in
limited supply and rather expensive here.  Does anyone know of a good
source for international orders in relatively small quantities?  I'll
just be sticking with cans/bags of extracts and hop plugs until I get
myself a garage or something.

Any information appreciated.

(End request, begin travelouge)

Oh, in case anyone is interested on the cost of homebrewing in Japan, here
are some figures for equipment and ingredients (I've converted to US dollars):

1 kg can of malt syrup ("B" brand, Japan's domestic homebrew kit brand) US$20
1.7 kg can of Cooper's brew kit:                                        US$35
2 lb DME (Livermore, CA) (incl 2 packs Red Star Ale Yeast, 20 caps):    US$28
10 1/2 oz Hop Plugs, 5% AAU from England: US$35
Hand-held bottle capper:                  US$25
Bench capper:                             US$80 (plastic)
Bag of 125 bottle caps:                   US$10
Airlock:                                  US$10
Racking cane w/sediment standoff, brass bottle filler, vinyl hose: US$35
Yeast packets:                            US$3-5

(These are current as of this weekend, at the "Sogo Hop" wunderkind department
store annex just south of Tennoji station, if that means anything to you)

I'm sure prices in the U.S. are significantly less, to the point where even
with shipping it is seriously worth the effort.  And, other than the odd
bag of Crystal Malt, an Edme stout kit, and some cans of "Kicker", that's
not far from a complete inventory of that place--so won't take too long before
I'm out of creative room without an outside supplier.

Again, any suggestions for an international supplier of raw materials are 
welcome.

- -- 
Steve Madsen, Research Engineer	    
Virtual Reality R&D Lab, IS Center  
Matsushita Electric Works, Ltd.
1048, Kadoma, Osaka  571  JAPAN
E-mail: tomio at ai.mew.co.jp
Phone numbers (Japan country code, "81", is included):
Tel: +81-6-908-6835  (Complete phone number from N. America: 011-81-6-908-6835)
Fax: +81-6-900-2766  (Complete fax number from N. America:   011-81-6-900-2766)



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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:24:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier at abc.se>
Subject: Re: Yeast for bread?/signatures

Marla Korchmar asks about using beer yeast slurry in baking. Jeff
Renner replied, amongst other things, that it makes bread rise
more slowly than normal bread yeast. I can confirm this.
Otherwise, I take a different approach than the one he describes.

I like a heavy, whole-grain bread with a lot of oomph and
character. When I started making sourdoughs, I was unsatisfied
with the sourness of the dough until I was using starter for 100%
of the liquid in the recipe.

Making bread from beer yeast slurry for the first time, I did the
same thing. I swirled around the slurry in the bottom of the
carboy and used half a liter instead of water for making two
loaves of bread. This I shouldn't have done. It was much too
bitter. 

I don't know if washing would help, as Jeff suggests, at such high
dosages. Now I use a 50% dilution of this slurry, unwashed, for a
satisfactor sourdough character. If I need the rising to go
quickly, I also add a package of bread yeast. Otherwise, it just
rises all day or overnight.

BTW, there is a "chain" of at least two brewpubs in Zurich and
Winterthur, Switzerland, that use both the yeast and spent grains
from brewing in the breads. Back und Brau is the name. When I was
in the Zurich one in January, its beer was no great shakes--though
leagues better than the Cardinal and similar swill around here--
but its bread and pretzels were excellent.

********

Spencer says: 
>Time for the semi-annual request: If you put a short signature
>line at the end of your posts (see below), then we can all feel
>more like a community of brewers. 

Hier hier!

Carl Etnier
A Yank temporarily transplanted from Sweden to Switzerland



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Date:          Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:39:52 +0000
From: "Dr. Gillian Grafton" <GRAFTONG at novell2.bham.ac.uk>
Subject:       new UK hop varieties

A few issues ago there was mention of some new hop varieties from the 
UK. There are descriptions of all of these new varieties on the hop 
page of the UK-homebrew web page:
UK-homebrew:  http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/GraftonG/homebrew.htm
hops:  http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/GraftonG/hops.htm
Hope you find them interesting.

Gillian Grafton
GraftonG at novell2.bham.ac.uk

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Date: 04 Oct 95 07:17:53 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:   Legislating drugs out of existence

In #1848, Brian Pickerill  <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu>  Muncie, IN
 comments on the Abe & Al "are we for or against drugs" thread:

>THINK about it--did the use of the drugs cause the crime and violence, or is 
that an
>artifact of trying to legislate them out of existence?

- -- Pseudo non-beer discussion to follow -- PG DN options fully enabled, 
or search for this string:-- End of Pseudo--

That is a good question.  Allow me to THINK outloud for a few moments...
IMHO, "drug-related" crime and violence have a single root cause: 
addition dependency.  IOW, "the use of the drugs cause the crime and 
violence".  This dependency ("demand") drives the supply side.  Lots of 
dependency means lots of demand.  Less dependency means less demand.  NO 
dependency means NO demand and hence no demand-driven crime and violence.

RE violence, lets break that down into micro and macro levels. On the 
micro level, addiction dependency results in individual crime/violence in 
search of money.  EG I'm going to rob you to get that $50 i NEED.  On the 
macro level, this gang or that organization will be VERY violent with 
each other to make sure they are the supplier making all that big money.

But, I hear you saying, all this crime and violence is an artifact of 
trying to legislate drugs out of existence.  Well... lets see.  Suppose 
we don't attempt to legislate drugs out of existence.  I assume you mean 
legalize drugs?  What would the result of this be?  I suppose 
legalization would make it easier to import since the police, ATF, Army, 
etc would no longer be an impediment - so prices might drop some.  Since 
it's ok to do drugs now, perhaps demand would increase.  That increases 
upward pressure on prices, and probably increases the number of users.  
There would still be a ton of money to be made, so suppliers would still 
be motivated to fight for market share.  Certain portions of congress 
would no doubt want to build a bureaucracy around this to regulate 
suppliers and tax drug sales. This tax is a cost increase paid by the 
"Consumers". The Drug cartel's cost of doing business would increase from 
all the resulting red tape.  They pass this along to the consumer - more 
upward pressure on prices.

So... IMHO legalization results in more demand, some upward pressure on 
prices, and some downward pressure on prices. Would this mean lower 
street prices, and possibly less micro violence?  Would cartels duke it 
out on the field of competition instead of shooting up everything?  

Bottom line: dependent users still need money because the product isn't 
free.  They don't have any more money for legal drugs than they do now 
for illegal ones, and even if the cost drops some (which is questionable 
 - when is the last time you saw someone give up money they were already 
making just to be nice?) users will still be violent to get what they 
need.  Suppliers still want the business and will fight for market share. 
 And, Uncle Sam becomes an active, money-making player.

Gee... after THINKing about it, it's MO that the *use* of drugs is 
causing the crime and violence.  The effort to legislate them out of 
existence might put some upward pressure on pricing, but i do not believe 
anti-drug laws are the major cause of crime and violence.  Eliminating 
the *demand* would eliminate the crime and violence.

- -- End of Pseudo non-beer discussion above --

Jeez. If you told me a few years ago I'd be talking like this, I would 
have laughed in your face ;-)






"Reeb!"
      - Tim
           Tim Fields...Fairfax, VA
           74247.551 at compuserve.com _or_ timfields at aol.com (weekends)
           timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)



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Date:           Wed, 4 Oct 95 8:03 EDT
From: Evan_Still at vos.stratus.com
Subject:        what did i do?

hi to all,

     I must have had one two many the night before
or i could blame it on the lousy software that doesn't
aknowledge a send command.Anyway sorry for the wasted
bandwidth.No quetions i think 3 of the same is enough
for now.Hope everyone has a good oktoberfest.

                                E.S.

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:04:28 est
From: Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Competition advice...

Hi all,
     I am considering entering my first homebrew competition. The 
beer I want to enter is a variation of a Pete's Wicked ale. The     
problem I have is that this beer does not fit any of the competition's
beer classifications. The closest class I can find is 'English 
Brown', but the specified O.G. must be in the 1.032 to 1.044 range, 
with an alcohol content of 2.5% to 3.6%. My beer had an O.G. of 1.056 
and an alcohol content of 4.4%. I would have liked to have my beer 
judged for what it is, and not in comparison with a true English 
Brown. Is there any point for me to enter my brew into this 
competition, or should I wait for another competition that has an
American Brown category? Comments from any of the beer judges out
would be much appreciated...
        
Thanks in advance,
Rob in Montreal 




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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:42:11 -0400
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: Grainger

Dave Bradley sez:
>   OK, so I called to get the Grainger catalog so often referenced
>here on the Digest.  I was told this is a business-sales only outfit,
>meaning I can't order without a Federal tax ID number.  Anyone care
>to comment?  Do you all order this stuff through your employer?
    Well it seems to depend on the individual store, but.... Grainger does
charge sales tax, so there should be no need for a tax I.D.  What I did was
get some business cards printed up, one of these was all I needed to open an
account.   My cards identify me as a "Handyman".  Perhaps ordering by phone
is different, but there should be a store somewhere within 20 miles of
mostmajor cities in the U.S. there are at least 4 in the D.C. area.
    So, I guess what I mean to say is you need to have an account in order to
buy from Grainger, but they accept cash and charge sales tax at the store
level.  Some stores don't even ask for business I.D.

Don
 

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:42:14 -0400
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: the kitchen sink

 
   Dave Rodgers wonders how to fix the kitchen sink.
   I'll bet that there in an aerator on the spigot with hidden threads, just
remove it with pliers and replace it with a hose adapter from the local
hardware store.
  Or, if chilling is the only prob. You could get one of those hair rinsing
attachments that slip over the faucet and cut off the rinse head, should only
cost $3-$4.

Don


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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 95 09:11:12 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Brewing and Kids

krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM writes:
>This legal age to brew thing really has my curiosity, since my 2-year
>old son helps with the process.  In fact, I can't brew without him
>begging to participate (stir, measure, dump in stuff).  He thinks it's
>his equipment anyway.

I'm sure this is an untested area for local jurisdictions.  Just as Virginia
once ruled that the license to brew at home meant you couldn't take your 
beer outside the house, who knows what interpretations will be put on 
homebrewers needing to be adults?

However, there is some precedent on who is the brewer.  Brew On Premises 
(BOPs) have gotten rulings that require the brewer to pitch the yeast. 
Thus, to be extra safe at home, you may want to be the one who pitches the 
yeast.

OTOH, I let my kids help me brew where they can, and let them taste my beer 
(my son, now 3, has always liked beer, so I keep open glasses away from him 
and just give him sips), and choose to not worry about the possibility of 
someone invading my home or charging me with child abuse.  You can go *too* 
far in worrying.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:21:12 -0400
From: simsj at goober.scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: recipe scaling?


I've asked before with minimal response, so i'm trying again:

Can anyone offer some SWAG/rules-of-thumb/etc for scaling recipes? I've
been brewing 5 gal batches [for about 3 years] and acquired a 45-50
gallon stainless steel (water filtration system) tank for a song. I've
modified a 15 gal keg for a brewpot, made a counterflow chiller
[thanks to all the suggestions from the HBD - it works *great*],
brewed some 5 gal full-boil batches with this system, and i'm ready to
scale this to brewing 15 gallon batches and fermenting 45 gallons at a
time :-)

But, short of many repeated trials (and errors ;-( i assume), I dont
have a good feel for scaling recipes from 5 gallon (partial or full
boil) batches to 45 gallon partial biol batches. I been cooking long
enough to know that just multiplying the ingredient amounts will
likely yield a mess.

 I'm sure that micro (and larger) breweries must do small-scale test
batches and have some reasonable method for scaling [that's hopefully
sorta generic]?

TIA,
jim

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 95 09:25:03 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: More Infusion Terminology

Hmmm.  Although I don't have any references, I have always distinguished the
mash approach by the message of applying heat.  Perhaps this is totally 
misguided.

So, you would have the following types of methods, some or all of which 
could apply to a particular mashing session:

Direct Fire:  Adding heat to the mash tun, which heats up the mash.
Infusion:     Adding water (warm) to the mash tun, which heats up the mash.
Decoction:    Adding grains/liquid (warm) to the mash tun, ...
Other:        Adding hot items (rocks, etc.) to the mash tun, ...

So, I would start with infusion for dough-in, then rely on direct fire for 
my stovetop mash tun for the rest of the temperature increases.  If I had a 
cooler as a mash tun, direct fire is pretty much ruled out.  Steam is hot 
water, yet it might be worth referring to as some other method than 
infusion.

Corrections and clarifications encouraged, as always.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:52:56 -0400
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: mail order Gott cooler


FYI...

  The US Plastics catalog (800-537-9724) has the 10 gallon Gott
cooler for $57.86   (page 81)

chuckm

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Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 09:18:09 -0500
From: "Andrew D. Kailhofer" <andy at aerie.bdy.wi.ameritech.com>
Subject: lauter-tun miracles


We brewed our first batch of pumpkin ale last friday night, and used a
couple of pieces of new gear to do it.

We just finished our grain mill.  It is (uncharacteristicly) a
hardwood frame surrounding a pair of (one free, one belt-driven) 8"
long, 2-1/2" dia black anodized medium diamond knurled cold steel
rollers.  I don't have the details on the motor, but it did pull
7-1/2# of grain through in maybe about a minute.  I expect that the 5"
aperture in the hopper helps.  :-) I believe we'll call it "Bone
Crusher".  No, I don't have the plans, nor may I tell you where we got
these rollers, and I doubt if you could get my brewing buddy Diane's
dad to build the frame for you (not like we could stop him if he
wanted to, old cabinetmakers die hard).  This is only to inspire envy.
:-)

We also just finished our new lauter tun.  After reading here a couple
of weeks ago about the Fass-Frisch 5L keg bungs and Gott coolers, I
decided to check and see if worked on mine.  I've got a 52qt Coleman
"Steel Belted", and true to life, the same deal holds true.  The
reusable bung fits perfectly.  I trotted off to the local builder's
store and grabbed 10' of 3/8" soft copper tubing, bent it into a
planispiral coil that roughly filled the space of the bottom of the
cooler, put a screw-on cap on one end and cut slots 1/4-3/8" apart
over the entire length of the tubing, save about 4" at either end.

Using the gear was very satisfying.  We didn't get quite a fine enough
crush, but that's our fault for not setting the mill rollers close
enough together.  The mash for our pumpking ale was (as you might
expect) a goopy mess, but without any sort of screen or false bottom
over the copper manifold (slots on the bottom) the wort cleared almost
immediately, and better than it *ever* did in our old zapap-style tun.

My advice is scrap the zapap (except for a hop-back maybe) and go with
the cooler.  It can even be returned to its original state with little
or no trouble, which is always good with the non-brewing spousal unit.

Andy

- --------
  Andy Kailhofer  Sr. Analyst, Ameritech Network Services   414/678-7793
  andy at aerie.bdy.wi.ameritech.com                      FAX: 414/678-6335
  740 N Broadway, Room 430,  Milwaukee, WI  53202-4303
  pXoXsXtmaster at ameritech.com (without the Xs) Fight for your right to privacy!

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:44:58 -0400
From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael Genito)
Subject: Useless faucet; Lauter tun

In #1848, drodger at world.std.com (Dave P Rodger) wrote:
>I've just moved to a new apartment, with visions of brewing dancing in my 
>head, and I realized that the kitchen sink is completely unsuitable for 
>brewing.  It's an old sink, and the faucet isn't threaded
Many older bathrooms have tubs but no showers. To accomodate the people that
would like to take a shower, there is an inexpensive device, basically a
hose with a shower head at one end and a rubber funnel at the other. The
funnel slips over the (unthreaded!) tub faucet, the water is turned on and
wala! a shower! I would go to a plumbing supply store and ask for this
device. To accomodate your bottle washer, I would also ask for a straight
pipe threaded for the standard faucet thread (unless they already have an
adapter). I think your supply store person will find the challenge
interesting and help you out.

On another note -
I am new to all grain and have seen other newbies posting about making their
own lauter tuns, many using Papazian's Zapap bucket full of holes design. I
used this in the beginning, and although it seemed to work ok, I found
sometimes it sparged very quickly and at least once, got a stuck sparge.
Also, my original attempts at all grain, although drinkable, were not as
good as I expected. I found a quick, cheap and easy alternative, which
sticks to the principle of a slow sparge allowing for greatest extraction.

Get a piece of stainless screen (I cut one out from a seldom used tea
strainer). Roll the screen into a pipe that will fit inside your bottling
bucket in the spigot. Fold over the end of the screen so that the end does
not have an open hole. When ready to sparge, pour your mash into the
bottling bucket and open the spigot. This is easy to work with, easy to
clean, and provides for a long sparge. I also put a colander over the bucket
when pouring in the sparge water, so as not to disturb the grain bed. I know
maintaining a steady temp around 170F is also important, but I have not
found a great variance in the time it takes to sparge, and if it were a
problem, I would consider creating a simple insulated cardboard box or
blanket in which the bucket could sit while the sparge takes place.

My all grains have tremendously improved since the use of this sparging
device, and I have not yet had a stuck sparge. BTW, the move to all grain
isnt that dramatic, as long as you enjoy the art of brewing and the extra
time all grain takes. 


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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:56:39 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Infusion question


My typical method of mashing is to raise the temperature with additions
of boiling water.  I start with a very thick mash for acid or protein 
rest, and then add little boiling water to raise temp once or twice more.
Is this "step-infusion"?  I'm not drawing mash liquor off, but I am adding 
boiling liquid to raise the temp.

 -R

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:25:58 -0700
From: dsgardne at ucsd.edu (D. Scott Gardner)
Subject: Re - Brewing and Sinks

>I've just moved to a new apartment, with visions of brewing dancing in my
>head, and I realized that the kitchen sink is completely unsuitable for
>brewing.  It's an old sink, and the faucet isn't threaded, so I can't
>attach either my bottle washer (not critical, but a pain) or my wort
>chiller (substantially more of a problem...)

I also had the same problem a few weeks ago when I moved into my new
apartment.  I went to the local hardware store, and picked up a converter.
This converter has a short rubber tube on one end with a clamp so that you can
fasten it to the faucet; and the other end has standard threads.  Piece of
cake!

Scott Gardner



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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:55:46 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: Grainger Business-Only

>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556
>>>>> <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com> writes:

Dave> OK, so I called to get the Grainger catalog so often referenced
Dave> here on the Digest.  I was told this is a business-sales only
Dave> outfit, meaning I can't order without a Federal tax ID number.
Dave> Anyone care to comment?  Do you all order this stuff through
Dave> your employer?

Grainger's stated corporate policy is business only.  However, if you
walk into a local office and plunk down cash, you will rarely be
turned down.  This is of course up to the local management of your
local office.  If you ask corporate, you will get the corporate
policy, nothing more.

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 13:45:10 EST
From: Robert.Fike at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov
Subject: Carboy stuff

     A long time ago, I remember some talk about a  device called "Phill's 
     Phalse bottom (I think)".  It was a device that held a carboy inverted 
     so that the trub could be dumped via a valve and excess CO2 could be 
     vented out.  I have been wanting to try brewing with a carboy, this 
     sounds neat.  Is there such a device or should I not have taken myself 
     off that medicine that keeps those voices out of my head.
     
     Thanks
     
     Rob
     
     Robert.Fike at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov
     
     (sorry no banner with the witty sayings.  However the one about "dying 
     like my grandfather did" still is my favorite) 


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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 95 15:03:00 EDT
From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker)
Subject: stuck fermentation results

On Oct 2 I threw out the following:

>The old problem:
>A number of beers I've brewed in the last while start off quickly (6 hours
>from pitching), foam up well and then stop short at 1.025, 1.022, etc. and
>never really move from these S.G.s (or take 2 weeks to do it).

>I brew extracts with dry or liquid yeast, boil everything, cool the wort,
>let sit, rack off the trub, shake the bejesus out of the carboy (for 5 min)
>and then pitch.  The thing is - this problem is new to me
>and might coincide with me doing full boils.  I'm tired of having to 
>worry about it - how do I prevent these incomplete ferments?  Aerate more?
>Could there be a problem with leaving too much trub behind?  I allready 
>pitch from a 750ml starter - go to a 1.5l starter?  Go back to open ferments
>(I use a carboy for the primary now)?

>I have to get over this problem before I put all the effort into full grain.
>TIA :)

I got back a raft of responses.  The solution / suggestion I place my faith in
is that of poor aeration due to my boiling of the wort and make up water.

The responses were:

Poor aeration: improve aeration by - leaving more airspace in 
the carboy when shaking, use a pail for the primary, using a pail
when aerating, using the aquarium pump / airstone method, using the 
holes in the racking cane method;

Pitch more yeast:  use a 1.5 litre starter;

Don't rack off the cold break:  there are yeast nutrients in that material;

Temperature:  make sure the temperature doesn't change too much during the
ferment;

Cloramine:  the fact that Ottawa changed to chloramine from chlorine may 
impede the ferment;

Yeast nutrient:  add some to the batch.

Wow, lots of advice.  I'm keen to toss this batch and move on to another to
try and use some of the advice but the trap is alive again so I'll wait 
and bottle.  It'll probably be my best batch - so how do I re-create this? :)

Neal Parker   			nparker at lockheed.on.ca
Lockheed Martin Canada 
Kanata, Ontario, Canada

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Date:          Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:18:49 EDT
From: "Herb B. Tuten" <HERB at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Subject:       Vanilla in Beer

Has anyone had experience brewing with vanilla flavoring,
either with extract or beans?  I'd like to try it, but I'm not sure
if a particular style lends itself better to vanilla aroma and flavor.
I saw a few recipes of this nature at Cat's Meow, but wanted to
ask the collective for advice before continuing.  Thanks.

Herb 

herb at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:20:38 -0400
From: gi572 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul D. Wiatroski)
Subject: Re:Faucets

Dave writes:
 .
>So what I'm wondering is whether anyone has advice (other than, give up
>and have a new faucet/sink installed, or get used to drinking expensive beer)
>for how to turn a useless faucet into one that can be used for brewing
>paraphernalia?
 .
I don't know if you use an immersion or counter flow chiller. If it's an
immersion chiller, I bought an inexpensive shower hose at Kmart (has a
rubber end that slips over the end of the faucet) for about $3. When the
shower head end is removed, the hose fits nicely over the end of a 3/8"
copper chiller tube. Be sure you use a hose clamp. If you use a
counter flow chiller, you may be able to adapt the shower hose to the
cooling  hose of your chiller. I'm not sure if the small diameter of the
shower hose will allow enough water to flow though your cooling hose
to be effective, you would have to try it.
 .
Hope this helps.
 .
Paul Wiatroski

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Sherman <dsherman at sdcc3.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: Glucan and Wheat..

John Girard stated:
>Planning on doing a 50-50 wheat/barley beer, and am concerned about stuck
>sparges.  Thanks in advance for any help.


I can't comment on the glucan content of wheat right now, but I can say 
RDWHAHB.  I brewed a 60/40 wheat/barley beer this summer with a 
single-step infusion mash and had no sparging trouble whatsoever.  I mash 
and sparge in a 5gal. Gott w/ a coiled copper manifold (1/16" holes).  I 
mashout with a hot water infusion & sparge with 170F water (keeping the 
Gott cooler mostly covered) at a rate of about 1.25pts./min.

Enjoy your wheat beer!

Dan Sherman
San Diego, CA
dsherman at ucsd.edu

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:30:21 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Hydrometer Readings.


Kenneth Goodrow says:

> Sometimes, actually moreso lately than when I first started brewing, I 
> will make batches and forget about any readings.

I didn't even HAVE a hydrometer for my first 8 or 10 batches.  There was one
batch, however, that I'm glad I had one.  The yeast had "napped out" on us,
and might have woken up in the bottle, causing trouble.

I like knowing the alcohol content of the beer, and being embarassed by how
low my extraction rate still is from all-grain.  I never take initial readings
with meads because it's not that easy with my technique there.

I'm glad the drinking age discussion has wandered offline, I'd almost rather
read about the Simpson trial here. (We find the defendant "not a homebrewer")

 -R

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:33:45 -0600
From: nealc at selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen)
Subject: Assembling lautering manifold

Recently Tim Laatsch asked about using solder or epoxy to assemble his
manifold.  I just completed one using 1/2" copper pipe, elbows and T's.  I
assembled it using copper safety wires.  This holds the manifold together,
keeps it somewhat flexible and allows for easy disassembly if you ever want
to.  After assembling the thing the way I wanted it, I drilled 1/4" holes
completely through all of the joints, inserted 4" pieces of copper wire
though them, and twisted the ends together tight.  I haven't tested it yet,
but I think it will work just fine.  Any comments would be appreciated. 
Neal Christensen
Missoula - A Place Sort Of


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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:14:37 -0400
From: RCBEER at aol.com
Subject: Online competition call for entries

The Virtual Village Homebrew Society is hosting the first sanctioned open
competition
to be judged online via CompuServe.
This event is AHA sanctioned and BJCP recognized . The judging will take
place in sites around the country with the judges communicating live via
CompuServe.
The competition is open to anyone and  will include all the AHA categories.
The deadline for entries is October 13, judging will take place on November
 4.
The results will be posted as they are decided on Compuserve and judges will
be available online to answer questions.
If you are interested in entering or want more information, contact Ralph
Colaizzi 
RCBEER at aol.com for a flyer and rules as well as entry and bottle forms.
Ther are many good prizes donated by vendors from all over the country.
Ribbons will also be awarded.
If you would like to judge and have a Compuserve account we will be glad to
have help.
Ralph Colaizzi
NetWort 1 Competition organizer

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:31:41 -0700
From: Tim Short <timshort at quiknet.com>
Subject: Carbonator/Rims Q

Hello all-
Just lost a weeks worth of HBD & Mail. Can you say %*%^%*%!**#$%?
I saw (before the bang) some private E-Mail in regards to RIMS/Carbonator.
Please resend them and I will respond. :)
Tim



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Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 07:32:38 +1000
From: david.draper at mq.edu.au (Dave Draper)
Subject: The Word

Dear Friends, in #1848 Cap'n Kirk contributes to the ongoing discussion
regarding infusion vs. decoction:

>If there's a commonly
>used term to specify mashing where the heat is applied externally (through
>any mechanism) and specifically NOT through hot water additions, I'm all
>for it.

The word is "svirfneblin" (pronounced "svirfneblin"), as in "I brewed this
with a svirfneblin mash."  Coined by Otto von Maltz in his classic 1563 work
on brickmaking, it has been in constant use ever since.  Really, Kirk, I'm
surprised at you for not knowing this.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"I'd swap all my gadgets for another 10 years experience" -Charlie Scandrett

 ...and yes, I am joking!  Sorry guys, nothing personal, I'm getting a huge
kick out this thread...
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au  Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
                ...I'm not from here, I just live here...


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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 18:38:53 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: little white dots



Upon breaking into a four-week-old batch of brown ale recently,
I found that many of the bottles have numerous little white dots
(1/2 to 1 MM) clinging to the inside surface just below the
surface of the liquid.  The ale tastes fine.  Are these bacteria
colonies or yeast?  I have seen the term "yeast pellicles" in
brewing books without explanation - are these pellicles?

I used EDME ale yeast for this batch.


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Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 20:28:09 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: finding good competitions

In #1848 Dan (Not Sharon) Ritter asks about the quality of judging at
competitions:

>I brew in a very small town with no other hb'ers. I enter the AHA national
>competition and the Dixie Cup primarily to get feedback from qualified judges.
>The judges comments have been thoughtful and helped quite a bit. I've also
>entered some smaller competitions with some very questionable feedback from
the

     Quality varies not only among competitions but also among different
judges at the same competition--not much of a surprise. Just as you have
gotten good feedback from judges at the NHC and Dixie Cup, there are
undoubtedly people who have gotten little more than some numbers and a page
of one- or two-word comments. I've gotten both poor and excellent judging
on different entries in different categories in the same competition. And it
isn't even a matter of judging rank. There are recognised judges who are very
good/experienced but simply don't have the exam score to advance in title or
that don't live close enough to places that host many competitions. On the
other side, there are national and master judges who don't give adequate
attention to making useful written comments.

     But don't write off small competitions. Remember, the judges at the NHC
1st and 2nd rounds live someplace, and it's not necessarily the city hosting
the competition. These judges who live elsewhere in the region most likely
judge at their own local competitions as well, and there's no reason to
believe that they'll be any less conscientious at home as they are on the
road.  Granted, those judges who make the effort to travel and judge in
larger competitions are going to be more experienced than the ones who judge
once a year at a club competition, regardless of the size.

     Indeed, the competitions to watch out for may the very large ones
(200+ entries) in beer-isolated areas. Whatever the local judge pool may
be, those competitions are too far away from anyplace else to attract many
out-of-town judges and also too far for most of the local judges to judge
elsewhere to get more experience--a "double-whammy," if you will.  The
overall quality of judging at those competitions would probably _improve_ if
they were smaller, because the local judging pool would not be spread so
thin.  That doesn't mean that those competitions may not have some excellent
judges, but with so many entries the probability is higher that the category
_you_ enter will be covered by less experienced judges or novices recruited to
help cover all the flights. This is not a criticism of novice judges; we all
started someplace. But where is a novice going to learn more: in a huge
competition where the judges are spread thin and the novice is judging with
someone barely more experienced than him/herself, or in a competition of a
size more appropriate to the number of judges available in which the novice
can be matched with a couple of experienced judges willing to give some
"on-the-job training" to the newcomer?

>judges. Are there a few other large competitions, with quality judging, that
>anyone can recommend? Again, I'm interested in feedback and suggestions to
>improve my beer and not necessarily winning the gold.

     It would not be appropriate to recommend or advise against specific
competitions, but I hope the considerations I've mentioned above will
provide you with the criteria for deciding whether a competition--large or






small--is worth your entry fees and shipping effort. In short, you probably
have a better chance of getting good judging if 1) there's a lot of good beer
and a substantial judging population within a few hours' drive of the
competition site, and 2) the size of the competition (number of entries) is
in some reasonable proportion to the number of experienced judges likely to
be available. There are some places that have geographic/demographic access to
a local/regional judging pool big enough to support a 200+ or 300+-entry
competition (you mentioned the Dixie Cup); there are some places that
simply do not. You're much better off entering a 50-entry competition that
can staff it with good judges than a 200+-entry competition that overloads
the available judging pool.

     I said I wasn't going to recommend specific competitions, but let me
give this region a plug. The same applies for various other regions
fitting a similar general description. There is a LOT of good craft beer
coming from both established and newer breweries and brewpubs in
south-central and south-eastern Wisconsin, and a lot of homebrewing. Our
club puts on a summer craft beer festival that featured 47 midwestern
breweries this year. Add to all that beer interest the fact that the
Chicago and Milwaukee areas are close to Madison, and you have a decent
population of beer judges who travel around the region judging at each
other's competitions. I may be a bit above average in the amount of judging I
do, but during the late winter/spring, I judged 8 weekends out of 13, and I
could have judged every weekend except Easter if I was really hard core. That
should give you an idea of how many active this area is. There are other
parts of the country in a similar situation, and you can probably figure out
where those are. Things slow down in the summer, but I just got started again
over the weekend, for me the start of a very full competition calendar from
October through mid-December.

     Sorry for the length, but I hope it helps.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino    uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Madison

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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 21:27:42 -0400
From: Slyboyy at aol.com
Subject: Papazian Holiday cheer

Hello All


This is not a very important question but here it goes any way. I brewed the
Papazian  holiday cheer recipe to the letter, and its in the bottles for a
month was it a good Idea  bottling it almost 4 months before the holidays or
should I have waited till about a month before serving. I figured with all
the spices involved in the recipe a long bottle conditioning would do the
brew good. This beer is stored in the basement for the last month should I
begin to refrigerate it any time before the holidays.

TIA

Michael
slyboyy at aol.com



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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:49:30 -0400
From: Elde at aol.com
Subject: 27-mm cappers

Does anyone know of a 'bell' type capper, (has the bell rather than jaws),
that will handle the European 27mm caps?

The bell type is preferred because I have a lot of bud bottles, and I've had
problems with capping them with jaw type cappers, and I can't afford two...

Derek

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Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:09:47 +0400
From: bra427 at brashs.com.au
Subject: Nitrogen in beer/cold plates/beer lines

Has anybody had any experience carbonating kegged beer with Nitrogen
instead of Carbon dioxide,as in Guiness? I tried here in our local pub a
Theakstons Lager(from UK) that is carbonated by nitrogen (I believe?) and
enjoyed it very much and am curious in trying to recreate that thick creamy
head that's nearly a meal in itself ! I already have a kegging setup and
both handgun for away events and a dual tap setup in my bar. One of my taps
is a "Guiness" tap with the disc insert inside it, so I am halfway there.
Does Nitrogen dissolve in beer at all?, what pressures do you "burp" the
keg at, if at all and what pressure do you serve it at???
I have been reading the HBD for a little over a year and haven't seen this
question appear before and am interested in the thoughts and experiences
that you may have, both good and bad. 
On another note I am considering building a cold plate to free up more
space in my fridge and was thinking of using a coiled copper type setup in
a water bath in the bottom of the fridge. Is this a good idea? Will
finished beer sitting in copper lines cause any reaction? Will my beer be
poisonous!!! Will I die if I drink it?
Also on beer lines my length from fridge to tap is 5-6 metres and I use
foam insulation type tubing around the lines and find it keeps the beer
cool enough, however when you pull your next beer there is a lot of foam
initially and wasted beer which defeats the point of keeping the lines
cool? It appears that once the beer sits in the line the CO2 comes out of
the beer to equalise the line. Is this what happens. Is their any way of
preventing this from happening?. Will this beer be poisonous !!!!!! Will I
die if I drink it???????
		TIA 
		  Marty...
 
Kryten: Pub: ah, yes, a meeting place where people attempt to reach
advanced
states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented
vegetable drinks. 


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Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:09:55 +0400
From: bra427 at brashs.com.au
Subject: Nitrogen in beer,cold plate construction,beer lines cool

Has anybody had any experience carbonating kegged beer with Nitrogen
instead of Carbon dioxide,as in Guiness? I tried here in our local pub a
Theakstons Lager(from UK) that is carbonated by nitrogen (I believe?) and
enjoyed it very much and am curious in trying to recreate that thick creamy
head that's nearly a meal in itself ! I already have a kegging setup and
both handgun for away events and a dual tap setup in my bar. One of my taps
is a "Guiness" tap with the disc insert inside it, so I am halfway there.
Does Nitrogen dissolve in beer at all?, what pressures do you "burp" the
keg at, if at all and what pressure do you serve it at???
I have been reading the HBD for a little over a year and haven't seen this
question appear before and am interested in the thoughts and experiences
that you may have, both good and bad. 
On another note I am considering building a cold plate to free up more
space in my fridge and was thinking of using a coiled copper type setup in
a water bath in the bottom of the fridge. Is this a good idea? Will
finished beer sitting in copper lines cause any reaction? Will my beer be
poisonous!!! Will I die if I drink it?
Also on beer lines my length from fridge to tap is 5-6 metres and I use
foam insulation type tubing around the lines and find it keeps the beer
cool enough, however when you pull your next beer there is a lot of foam
initially and wasted beer which defeats the point of keeping the lines
cool? It appears that once the beer sits in the line the CO2 comes out of
the beer to equalise the line. Is this what happens. Is their any way of
preventing this from happening?. Will this beer be poisonous !!!!!! Will I
die if I drink it???????
		TIA 
		  Marty...
 
Kryten: Pub: ah, yes, a meeting place where people attempt to reach
advanced
states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented
vegetable drinks. 


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1849, 10/05/95