FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Mashing system (jim_robinson)
  a question of glassware (Todd Gierman)
  Home toasted malt / Wheat for head retention (Keith Frank)
  Fitting an aluminum pot with a drain (Mike Dowd)
  Charlie's IPA (Glenn Tinseth)
  Mash Tuns (blacksab)
  AL pots/mystery bitterness/yeast lag (BF3B8RL)
  Fields of Barley (hadleyse)
  pumpkinbrau ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  mason jars (Mike White)
  Styles or Lack Thereof (Mike White)
  Suggestions on Recipe (Gary McCarthy)
  Bottle Neck Woes (Eric Peters  919- 405-3675)
  Re: freezers vs fridges (hollen)
  Cooling/Settling Process/Yeast Starters ("Drago, J. MAJ              DAD")
  recovering stuck batches ("Taber, Bruce")
  iodophor (Pierre Jelenc)
  Ooops! (IHomeBrew)
  Re: Styles Vs Eclecticism ("Edmund C. Hack")
  Styles : Thread Continuation (Ken Schroeder)
  brown sugar equivalent (GREGORY KING)
  dangerous chemical in beer (Dan McConnell)
  Oatmeal Mash Technique ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Mashout temp responses (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 16:41:05 PST
From: jim_robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com
Subject: Mashing system

Well it's been a long time between postings, but I finally have 
something of interest to add.  If you remember, I've long been an 
advocate of the Coleman Industrial 10 gallon water cooler as a 
mashing vessel.  It's been 2 years and many gallons later, and 
its still as good as new.  The Coleman cooler cost $22.00 
dollars!  At any rate, I'm building a new Mashing system, which I 
will describe below, and I found another reason why the Coleman 
is the BEST cooler made (kidding). I found that a 5/8 copper pipe 
is a perfect press fit through the standard Coleman spigot.  Just 
remove the guts, warm up the fitting, and press the pipe through. 
Sure makes for a clean manifold and ball valve connection.

The real reason for this post, is to see if I have made any logic 
errors in designing my new mashing/sparging/boiling/cooling set 
up.  Here's the basic setup.  I bought an outdoor/double jet 
burner propane stove (30k Btu).  Its built into a real heavy duty 
stand (Costco $99.00).  Its mounted into a "semi-tower" setup 
with the old faithful Coleman at the top of the tower overlooking 
the burners.  On the two burners is the 15 and 10 gallon boilers 
which will be used for hot liquor/boiling and sparge water.  
Mounted to the tower is a March MDX-3 pump.  The idea is to 
monitor the temperature in the hot liquor/boiling keg and pump it 
through the Coleman till the water stabilizes at the appropriate 
temperature.  Of course the liquid will run through the cooler 
and gravity feed back into the hot liquor/boiling keg.  I assume 
the 30K burner will be adequate for this purpose.  The liquid 
will recirculate through copper pipe and will have the 
appropriate manifolds on the top and bottom of the grain bed.  
After the appropriate temperature is reached, the pump will 
deliver all the liquid to the Coleman and the heat is turned off 
until conversion.  At this point you can use this setup as a RIMs 
system and recirculate the run-off. Don't really know if this is 
necessary.  After this step the pump will transfer the sparge 
water from the second boiler through the Coleman and back into 
the hot/liquor boiler until sparging is completed.  At this point 
it's the standard boiling procedure. 
The only other spin is using the pump to pump the wort through my 
counter flow chiller that is mounted under the burner stand. The 
whole system is mounted on rollers and can be wheeled around the 
garage (no I won't use it inside the garage).  HEY..WAKE UP!  
Sorry.  

So here's the deal.  Any reason why this won't work?  I like the 
idea of reaching my temperatures by recirculating the mash.  I 
always seem to miss my temperature when I do a single step 
infusion mash in the cooler.  I also like pumping up the old 
Coleman and kicking back for an hour or so.  No temperature 
controllers, electric heaters or scorching.

I think that this could be called the Towering RIMS cooler masher 
or something like that.

All replies/criticisms are appreciated.

Jim Robinson
Aliso Viejo Ca. 


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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 21:53:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Gierman <tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: a question of glassware

Some people take their serving (glass)ware very seriously (just look at 
the variety that Belgian beers are served in).  I have a question 
concerning glassware and I suspect that it can be answered here.

My mother recently presented me with two large and very heavy goblets of 
leaded glass.  She maintains that they are called Shoopers (Shupers, 
Schoopers, Choupars?) and hinted that they cost her a pretty penny at an 
auction.  She claims that they are servingware for beer.  They are kind 
of interesting, although not at all ornate.  They hold about 3/4 liter of 
beer and seem very appropriate for Belgian trappist-style beers.  These 
guys are definitely leaded crystal as they were flagged coming through 
the airport x-ray scanner.  Does anyone know anything about customs or 
history sorrounding this type of "beer glass"?  I've seen beer served in 
1-liter mugs, but never in stemware this large.  


TIA,

Todd

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Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 21:02:21 -0500
From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Home toasted malt / Wheat for head retention

***** from Bruce DeBolt *******

1.  Home Toasted Malt

In the latest Zymurgy special issue on Malt there are two articles dealing 
with home malt toasting.  On page 28 Robert Grossman recommends toasting
malt the same day you plan to brew because "... most of these flavorful 
aromatics quickly dissipate".  However, on page 73 Paul Hale writes that 
freshly roasted grains can be somewhat harsh and recommends letting 
them mellow a couple weeks before using.  

I'm interested in the Toasty Cream Ale recipe on page 30 (Grossman article), 
so would prefer a mellow, rather than assertive toasty flavor contribution.  
Perhaps Hale is mainly referring to darker home roasted grains.

What is the opinion of those who have done this before?

I really enjoyed this issue and would recommend it to those who don't 
subscribe but would like an up to date, concise reference on malt and 
mashing.  How do others feel about this issue?

2.  Wheat for Head Retention

I typically use 1/2 lb malted wheat for improved head retention in my 
single temp. infusion all grain batches.  Would there be any benefit (for 
head retention) in doing a stove top mash for the wheat that includes a 
protein rest before heating to saccharification temp. and adding to the Gott 
cooler?

TIA,
Bruce DeBolt
Lake Jackson, TX
Direct e-mail  usdowq6c at ibmmail.com

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 00:22:29 -0500
From: mdost3+ at pitt.edu (Mike Dowd)
Subject: Fitting an aluminum pot with a drain

Yesterday, I tried to fit my 8 gallon aluminum pot (which
I use for boiling) with a drain (brass).  The walls of the pot
are pretty thick, so I drilled a hole (about .5 in.) and tapped
it.  The drain valve goes in nice and tight, but it leaks,
especially when I heat the pot.  I probably should have
expected this, but my desire for a drain outweighed my
caution.  Is there any way I can salvage this situation, or
have I ruined this kettle?  Would I be able to get a decent
seal if I used some nuts and washers and tightened things
up really well?  How about putting teflon tape on the
threads?  Or do teflon and wort not mix?

Please help.

Thanks in advance,
                                      Mike

Michael Dowd                    "I could be mistaken. Maybe it was another
Slippery Slope Research     bald-headed jigsaw-puzzle tattooed naked
University of Pittsburgh     guy I saw."
mdost3+ at pitt.edu                                      -Fox Mulder



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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:05:25 -0700
From: gtinseth at teleport.com (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: Charlie's IPA

CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> writes:

>Thanks to Dr. Gillian Grafton for the historical record on the flavour
>European Oak. I knew about pitch lined beer barrels but correctly guessed the
>IPA barrels weren't lined because I've never seen a lined wooden  barrel on a
>sailing boat. The endless motion literally polishes it off, the inside is
>quite
>smooth. The motion and heat would also probably render the beer completely
>flat. My point about the now fashionable sharp bitterness and hop aroma
>stands.

But your comment re: oak flavor in IPA lies flat on its back, gasping for
air ;^) And what leads you to believe that a trip to India in a oak barrel
would dissipate the bitterness of a 100+ BU (if historical recipes are
true) IPA? Perhaps the hop aroma and flavor would take a serious hit in the
trip around the Horn, but I think that the bitterness would survive, at
least into the 60 or better BU range. I think you need to read the IPA
articles by Thomlinson (in Brewing Techniques) mentioned previously.

OB styles: So how would you suggest a homebrew or craft brew competition be
judged, in the absence of rigid styles? How do you propose to eliminate the
natural tendancy to favor a barley wine over a mild (i.e. the bigger the
beer, the more we tend to like it).

Glenn



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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 06:58:56 -0500
From: blacksab at siu.edu
Subject: Mash Tuns

Paul<PJS at uic.edu> asked about fittings on mash tuns and Easymashers:

I've ben using the Easymasher for a while now, and it works fine. My only
complaint is that the end of the spigot where the plastic tube goes is less
than perfect.

Here's an alternative to welding:

        1. Begin with a brass, 3/8-inch NPT nipple, whatever length you desire.
        2. Using teflon tape, install a full-flow brass ball-valve and hand
tighten 
        3. Get a brass plumbing nut and crank it down onto the other end of
the            nipple as tight as it will go. By wrenching the "nut" on the
ball-valve with the plumbing nut, pipe wrenches are not needed, and
the nipple is not marred for life.
        4. Drill hole in keg so the nipple fits in just so--it should not
have             to be threaded in, but there shouldn't be a lot of slop either.
        5. On the inside of the keg, screw onto the nipple a 3/8-in FPT x
3/8-in            Compression fitting with a fiber washer between the
fitting and the             inside of the keg. Crank it down tight.
        6. Attatch Easymasher assembly to fitting or make your own.

NOTES: The correct size washer is not made to my knowlege, get one with a
smaller hole and carefully file with a rat-tail. Make sure that the washer
fits the mating surface of the compression fitting. Teflon tape on the
inside is not necessary, and be sure not to use too long a nipple, it will
break off the keg.

AND MOST IMPORTANT!!!!! Do not attempt to get this stuff anywhere except a
REAL hardware store, especially the fiber washers. If they don't sell nails
loose by the pound in double-weight paperbags, it's probably not a real
hardware store. Just because Home Despot (sic) doesn't sell it doesn't mean
that it's not available. Sure, maybe you can save a few pennies, but try
asking for advice some time; and see if they'll send you to another store if
they don't have something. At a real hardware store...oh, sorry, I'm
ranting...;-)

Hope this helps,

                        --Harlan
  
 ****************************************************************************
 *     Harlan Bauer                      ...malt does more than Milton can  *
 *  <blacksab at siu.edu>                   To justify God's ways to man.      *
 *    Carbondale, IL                                       --A.E. Houseman  *
 *                                                                          *
 ****************************************************************************
 


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:06:07 -0400
From: BF3B8RL at TPLANCH.BELL-ATL.COM
Subject: AL pots/mystery bitterness/yeast lag

          HBDers -

          I have three questions for the collective. (I really must
          learn not to save these up....)

          ***************  #1  ********************

          On the alumimum pot discussion:  I decided last week to use
          the AL pot that came with my propane burner (a brinkmann) to
          heat up infusion/sparge water.  Now I live in the DC area,
          and I get my water from the Potomac river (as opposed to the
          Patuxent river).  This water was run through a carbon
          activated filter before heating.  I noticed to my dismay
          that the AL pot turned translucent BLACK --- obviously some
          sort of reaction with the water.  Not worrying, I used the
          water anyway.

          When I used a little acid (for sparging) in the water, it
          dissolved the BLACK coating on the AL pot.  Again, I
          refused to get concerned and used the water anyway.
          After all, does anyone really worry about the layer of
          oxidation on their copper chillers that disappears with
          use?

          Any ideas on what's going on here?  Clearly, this
          reaction is telling me something about my pot or my water or
          both.

          ********************* #2 ******************

          On a related note (and here's where my water source comes
          in), I've noticed that since moving into my current house,
          my beer has adopted a strage harsh bitter character that I
          can't seem to pinpoint.  In fact, I shoot for IBUs generally
          low for a particular style (don't confuse this with the
          style thread), and still IMHO end up with beers that are
          middle to high in bitterness.  The "harsh" flavor seemed to
          rear its head when my water source changed from the Patuxent
          to the Potomac.  Here's a very brief comparison of the two
          (in ppm):

                    Ca        Mg        Chloride       Sulfate

          Potomac   39.1     7.7         33.9           33.2
          Patuxent  16.2     3.6         13.7           12.5

          I've tried using distilled water this year, but I think that
          I still have this harshness (all brews for this year are
          still aging, awaiting their first pour).  I've also changed
          from acid blend to citric acid, but I've never used much of
          either (1/16 tsp per 5ga?).  Finally I tend to sparge on the
          low side, just to assure myself that I won't be in phenol
          city.

          Any ideas?  How do you other Wash DC brewers treat your
          water?

          **************** #3 ***************************************

          Finally, a yeast question.  I recently read here that it is
          best to pitch starter yeast once it has settled, since
          glycogen (sp?) is at a max.  Having run a few marathons,
          this made sense to me.  So a brewed up a batch of
          Ocktoberfest, and pitched the settled slurry of Wyeast's
          Bavarian strain (total of about 20oz starter) in a cooled
          (about 80F -- this is as good as my chiller gets this time
          of year) aerated batch of about 6 gallons.  The slurry and
          starter were at room temperature (70F)

          The lag on this was 36 hours before a layer of foam built up
          on the top of the beer.  Once active, I slowly cooled the
          beer from 68F to 53F over a day or so.  It is now fermenting
          VERY happily.  In the past, normal lag times for me were
          usually 24 hrs or less. But, in the past I pitched the
          starter at high krausen.  However, my past lagers have
          always slowed down to a crawl once I cooled them into the
          50s.

          So here is my delema: did pitching settled yeast
          trigger the long lag (bad) and subsequent very active
          primary at lager temps (good)?  Or are my results
          random/subject to the particular yeast strain?

          Perhaps you yeast gurus have some answers.

          TIA,


          Chas Peterson
          charles.b.peterson at bell-atl.com

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 09:27:08 EDT
From: hadleyse at pweh.com
Subject: Fields of Barley

Does anyone have any data on the average quantity of barley (in lbs) that
a one acre field can produce?  Thanks in advance.

Scott Hadley  Hartford, CT

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Date: 20 Oct 1995 06:43:06 PDT
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com>
Subject: pumpkinbrau


From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To:  OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject:  pumpkinbrau
Date: 1995-10-20 08:33
Priority:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mike Clarke wites:
> Wade Wallinger posted this not-too-long-ago:
> <snip>
> >Rinse the pumkin, leave skin on and cut into large sections. Bake in 350f
> >oven for 1hr 15min. Remove skin and crush meat.
> <snip>
> Good Luck!

 ...and I thought I would reply. When I posted this I recall adding the
comment that the sparge wasn't much of a problem when I made this recipe a
year ago. I made this batch last weekend and stand corrected. I must have
enjoyed this brew so much last year (which I intend to do again this year)
that I completely forgot what a PITA the sparging was. Thank goodness that
pumpkin season only rolls around once each year. What I ended up doing was
to add sparge water and then stir to get any flow at all. I will add though
that the snippet from Mike was a very easy part of the process. Oh, and I
did use pie pumpkins, not Jack O'lantern pumpkins (my children wouldn't let
me!).

Wade Wallinger brewing contraband on the Mississippi Gulf Coast


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:58:36 -0500
From: mike at datasync.com (Mike White)
Subject: mason jars

On Oct. 19 Mark W Levesque wrote:

>A friend of mine has loads of the mason type canning jars in his 
>basement.  They must be airtight since people use them to can veggies 
>
>etc. for the long term.  Anyone out there ever try using those to 
>bottle home brew?  I guess one concern would be strength/thickness of 
>
>the glass.


I have been canning veggies for longer than I have been brewing beer and
think you should keep in mind that Mason jars are designed to hold a slight
vacuum.  Normally vegetables are put in the jars hot and then the lids are
put on.  As the air space above the veggies cools it contracts causing a
slight vacuum.  The lids on Mason jars are engineered to hold pressure out,
not to hold pressure in.   Also, the heat involved in canning hot vegetables
softens the rubber (plastic?) seal in the lid and allows it to conform to
any deformities in the glass rim of the jar when the lid is screwed on.  I
don't think you are going to be bottling your beer under high heat.

However, that is not to say that a Mason jar will not hold the pressure of
carbonated beverage.  An idea for a quick test would be to pour a bottle of
beer into a Mason jar, firmly screw on a new lid (don't re-use old lids as
the seals are deformed from use) and shake the heck out of it.  If the jar
hold the pressure....well then I would assume you could use them for bottling.

Let us know if it works!
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thought for the day:

If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Mike White
mike at datasync.com


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:58:39 -0500
From: mike at datasync.com (Mike White)
Subject: Styles or Lack Thereof

On Oct. 18 Richard Scotty wrote:

>While an arguement can be made that American Lager is a legitimate
>category, why is it so finely parsed?  I can't tell the difference between
>Red Dog (gold medal winner??) and Miller Genuine Draft, yet they are
>entered in separate categories.

Although I agree with your statements about categorizing beer types I must
say that there is a definate taste difference between MGD and Red Dog.
Tastes like they forgot to put the hops in Red Dog.  Not that either compare
with a batch of homebrew!
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Thought for the day:

If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Mike White
mike at datasync.com


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:20:04 -0700
From: gmccarthy at dayna.com (Gary McCarthy)
Subject: Suggestions on Recipe

Hi all:

Going to Arts Brewshop in SLC to get ingredients for a Traditional Porter, Art
pointed out that he had Carastan and Brown malts.  I realized that these malts
were kinda rare, and I got to thinking about making a sort of sweet brown ale
from them.

Looking in Homebrew Favorites, I see a recipe for a Deer Abbey from the Brews
Bros of Seattle, but I want to modify the recipe to just have 8 lbs malted
barley, 3 lb of Munich, 1 lb brown malt, and 1 lb of Carastan.  Hops - maybe 1
oz Kent-Golding and 1 oz of Hallertau.  Yeast - of course!

Any comments the taste of this ale, any comments for modification?
PS-Fri morning and stanford.edu site does not contain the homebrew archive,
what is wrong?  I was there yesterday.  Temporary outage, I hope!

Thanks  Gary McCarthy in Salt Lake City            Don't ever tell them that
you knew my name,
gmccarthy at dayna.com                                          my darling,
Sugaree!

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 10:21:46 EDT
From: epeters at rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters 919- 405-3675)
Subject: Bottle Neck Woes



>From Ed Iaciofano in HBD #1862:

>Rolland Everitt writes about white spots in his bottles:
>
>>...I used
>>Edme dried ale yeast for that batch, and am still wondering
>>what the spots are all about, ...
>
>Gosh Rolland, have you been in my basement?  I used two packs of EDME
ale
>yeast for each of my last two batches, a stout and a brown ale.  Each
beer
>has white spots in the beer around the neck of *some* of the bottles.
>Because it seemed random I thought that the problem was dirty/infected
>bottles.  The beer smelled fine and foamed like crazy when I poured it
down
>the sink...
>
>I used EDME ale yeast because it was quick and came in 11g packs.  I
think
>I'll be going back to the liquid packs even if this problem is only
yeast
>floating around.
>

Before pouring suspect beer down the drain, take a good pull from
several
bottles.  It's highly unlikely that you will have any adverse reactions
from a few tastes of potentially infected brew.  Never rely on sight
and
smell alone.  If you believe a batch is infected, stash it away for six
weeks and try it again, it might improve.

Don't be frightened by white spots or bottle neck rings.  My brother
and
I saw these on about half of the bottles from our first ~100 gallons
(all
were all-grain using Wyeast).  None of the bottles were bad.  We began
to
suspect the spots and/or rings were the result of protein coagulation,
possibly from our DME primer.  Before we could verify any of this, we
gave away our bottles and began kegging.  The spots and rings could
barely
be seen, but were there, and we never had an infected bottle.

Eric Peters
RTP, NC
epeters at rtp.semi.harris.com

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:31:46 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: freezers vs fridges


I agree that the capacity of a chest freezer is wonderful, but the
downside of them is that when they run, the coil areas get so cold so
fast that they cause condensation.  Then this runs down and pools
in the bottom.  This eventually mildews.

If anyone has a solution for this (other than frequent cleaning) I
would appreciate it.  Yes, I do use a temp controller set at 55F.  My
freezer runs about 3 hours out of every 24.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 10:29:00 PDT
From: "Drago, J. MAJ DAD" <TJ2996 at dad.usma.army.mil>
Subject: Cooling/Settling Process/Yeast Starters


I am an extract brewer. My last three batches have come out with a very 
bitter, almost "mediciny" taste and smell. I do not think these batches were 
contaminated, but I'm not sure. Each of these batches had some things in 
common. First, British Wyeast, which I've read ferments out very dry. 
Second, 12 oz. of clover honey added to the extract and hops during boiling, 
which I've also read contributes to dryness,  and third a new cooling and 
settling process that I tried in order to facilitate the use of a yeast 
starter. This process goes as follows: Once the wort for the entire batch 
comes to a boil, I extract about 20 oz. of the wort, cool it, add it to a 
starter vessel, and pitch the yeast. I let that get going for about 24 hours 
while the remainder of the wort which was added to 3.5 gallons of cold water 
cools and settles for the same 24 hours. When the starter reaches high 
krausen, I  rack from the settling bucket to the primary and pitch the 
 yeast by opening the spigot on the settling bucket and letting the beer 
splash into the yeast in my primary. Normal fermentation occurs. Is there a 
problem with oxidation or anything else which is causing these bitter 
off-flavors. Any advice appreciated.

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 10:42:00 EDT
From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA>
Subject: recovering stuck batches


Hi again.

On Friday, Bill Kitt Jr. asked if he could recover his batch (IMBR) by 
raising its
temperature from a too low temp in the 50's, up to the mid 60's.  The answer 
is
yes.  Yeast tends to go dormant when the temperature drops, it doesn't die.
Raising the temperature will get it going again no problem.  I would suggest
though, to bring the temp up to the upper 60's or very low 70's.  This is 
what the
dry packaged yeasts tend to prefer. (I assume you are using a dry ale type).

Last year I had a batch in my basement in my heated brew box at 21C (70F).
It had been working for a couple of days when my basement flooded. I live in 
the
country and have to rely on a sump pump to keep my basement dry.  Anyway,
my 5 gal. carboy became half submerged in 4C (40F) water.  I was defiantly
concerned but after pumping out the basement and warming up the batch it
finished up with no problems.

Maybe I should describe my brew box.  I'm sure similar boxes are used by 
many
brewers.  I live close to Ottawa in Canada and my basement stays cool all 
year.
During a real hot spell in the summer (over 30C ) it only gets to about 20C. 
 I
built a plywood box that is big enough for my fermenter to sit in.  It has a 
false
bottom that holds the fermenter about 6" off the cool floor. In the 6" space 
I have
a 150W light bulb that provides heat.  It is controlled by an inexpensive 
thermostat
mounted in the box where the fermentor sits.  It is a thermostat for an 
electric
baseboard heater.  I also have a cheap outdoor thermometer mounted in the
box.  The thermostat has an on / off band of about 4C. The bottom of the box 
has
a number of large holes cut in it to allow the heat to rise into the box 
easier. The holes
are covered from below by a sheet of aluminum foil to keep out the light. 
 This
allows me to keep my ales at a somewhat controlled temperature year round.
It is also handy for siphoning since I can sit my carboy on top of the box.

Another question posed in Friday's HBD was by Ed Lustenader.  He wanted to
know if his beer was ruined because it had stopped fermenting after only 24 
hrs.
What you didn't mention ED was what the specific gravity was.  Yeast is 
quite
forgiving but it can also be quite mischievous.  Without checking the SG you 
are
only guessing as to whether there is a problem or not.
Buy for now,

Bruce Taber
taber at irc.lan.nrc.ca


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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 11:04:31 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: iodophor


Craig Amundsen <amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu> asks:

>   The other day I found myself in the local Fleet Farm(tm) (what a _great_ 
> store! (#include <std.disclaimer>)), so I strolled over to the dairy section.
> It was my intention to buy a gallon of iodophor-based tank sanitizer for $10.
> I did find some sanitizer for $10/gallon. It was a no rinse variety and had
> a certain amount of "titratable iodine" in it. The problem is that the label
> didn't have the word "iodophor". It did have a very long chemical name (no
> doubt IUPAC approved) that started with iodine. Does anyone know the actual 
> chemical name for iodophor? 

There is no "chemical name" for iodophor, because it should really be
"iodophors": it is a class, or family, of molecular compounds that all
contain iodine together with a carrier. There are a good half dozen
carriers in use, of which polypyrrolidones and polyethers are the most
common. 

They all work pretty much the same way, although the details ("free
iodine" concentration at a given dilution) are different. 

That you probably did see an iodophor is given away by the term "titrable
iodine", since only in the context of iodophors does it make sense to
distinguish "titrable", or "total", iodine and "free" iodine from "just 
plain iodine".

Pierre

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:06:36 -0400
From: IHomeBrew at aol.com
Subject: Ooops!

Ooops!  I erroneously stated in HBD #1862 the conversion formula for
converting Celsius to Farenheit.  The correct formula is:

Fahrenheit = 9/5*Celsius + 32

(I'm a victim of cut & paste -- yeah, blame the technology!  Thanks Eric.)
 ...Clark

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:16:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack at crl.com>
Subject: Re: Styles Vs Eclecticism

On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, in HBD 1862, CHARLIE SCANDRETT
<merino at ozemail.com.au> wrote, on the style standards debate:

> I rest my case! From and outsider's point of view (I have never competed
>or known of a competition, I am outside organized homebrewing) with
>experience of wine competitions, this seems absurd. Wine is grouped into
>styles (usually grape varieties) and judged on excellence. I have never
>heard of points for comformance to style?!
> 
I'm a relavitely new homebrewer (one year) and Beer Geek (tm), who is also 
learning to become a Wine Snob (tm). One thing that I have learned about 
wine in the reading of Wine Spectator over the last year, is that in wine 
judging, there is a style conformance being enforced. It is unwritten, 
changes, and greatly influences commercial winemaking. For example, the 
whites are becoming fruitier and less dry due to style preferences of 
judges at several important competitions in the US. It is even spilling 
over into the judging of reds. It is a source of much consternation, 
because wines made to "classic" flavor profiles are not winning medals, 
even though they are as good of wines as before - they are just out of favor.

I see the beer judging as being modeled after dog judging. For each breed 
of dog, there is a standard. Judges compare the dog to the standard, and 
the winning dogs are those closest to the standard. Admittedly, they 
don't have the point scoring, but they do have disqualifiers. Is my 
purebred Pembroke Welsh Corgi any less of a pet because he has a 
disqualifying mark (a spot of white on his nose)? No, he's a great pet, 
but he can't be a Champion Corgi, however.

Maybe what the AHA/BJCP might consider doing for "orphan" beers that 
don't have a category is have an "open"  category - any beer not fitting 
into the other styles goes here. If popular, they might go into so 
subdivisions of light/dark, lager/ale, high/low OG, etc.

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 09:44:15 PDT
From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Styles : Thread Continuation

Rich Scotty questions the "finely parsed" American Lager catagory for the 
GABF. He mentions that budswilloors are virtually the only competitors
in that catagory and this arrangement was created to "award medals to the
big three". Well, Rich, doesn't AoB look a lot like AB? I think your 
correct in your assumption, but then the big three brew the vast majority 
of beer consumed in the USA. I haven't any proof, but, it would figure
that budswilloors contribute significant $$$ to AoB. AoB had better make, 
what would appear to be big customers, happy. Give'm medals to adorn
coorperate headquaters! (By the way, this isn't a slam against GABF or
AoB, it is just one interpitation of the situation. The GABF should
begin to take on the significance it's British counterpart as the years 
pass.)

As far as needing more styles in the American Amber Ale catagory: many
catagories need more styles. Some catagories need to be redifined. 
Some styles need to be moved around. Al Korozonas replies to Charlie 
Scandrett that it would be hard to combine American Bock and Helles Bock 
in the same catagory due to the heavier qualities of Helles Bock. This is 
similar to the lighter American Wheat style compaired to most of the
sour European Wheat styles. The American Wheat would be overwhelmed. Some 
times the style names are misleading. Catagorization of a style should be 
based on common sensory qualities. This is part of what makes new styles and 
style catagoization a difficult task.  

Charlie further state that the "progressive brewer in Burton...would
try to figure out what is positive for brewing, and what is negative,
in the ionic soup they call water...A craft stylist in the USA would be
tinkering just a feverisly to duplicate the natural Burton water exactly
 ....to replicate the "true" Burton style". This has some truth in it, but
misses the point for a "true craft stylist brewer", anywhere in the world.
Replicating the Burton water is the first step into learning what makes
Burton water work well for the hoppy pale ales. Craft brewers also try to 
replicate Vienna water to see what makes Vienna beers to malty and smooth.
>From such experimentation, brewers around the world may learn what to
add to their brewing water to bring forth the qualities they are trying to 
achieve. The same is done with malts, hops, and yeast. It is from this 
"educated state" that new styles may emerge. 

Commercial brewing virtually prohibits this experimentation. Most pro
brewers in this area (SF Bay Area) that I know (and that is quite a few)
all started in homebrewing. When working on a new beer, they go back to their 
roots and brew in home systems. When these pilot batches are perfected, they 
are brough into the brewery in tweaked to accomodate the larger brewing 
volumes and equipment differences. So, new beers, therefore new styles, are
truely created in the homebrew environmment. At least that is what has been 
I have seen happen in this area. yummm....

As I stated in an earlier post: the oganizations that issue guidelines for
judging are willing to listen to us (the brewers) sugestions. It will
take many brewers with the same sugestions and examples to get these 
organizations to take action. As pointed out in this post, even us, the 
brewers, can't agree on common catagorization of styles. Imagine the 
problems that the BJCP and the AHA have trying to get consenous with 
all the brewers of the USA and/or the rest of the world.

If this post pissed off any of the organizations mentioned ( AoB, AHA,
budswilloors) or people, so sorry. There is no bashing intended here,
I am just stating my OPINION, though my emotional feelings may show 
through ;^).

Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing     (a nano brewery dedicated to developing excellent beers
Redweood City, Ca.	that may or may not fit into a "defined" style)



 

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:08:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: GREGORY KING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Subject: brown sugar equivalent

Greetings HBDfolk,

I have a recipe that calls for a small amount (1 lb) of brown sugar.
I know (from Papazian) that brown sugar is simply regular old table
sugar with a small amount of molasses added to it.  Do any of you
know the relative amounts of white sugar and molasses in brown sugar
(light and/or dark).

The reason I ask is that I'd rather use honey in place of the white
sugar component.

Thanks.

Greg

====================================================================
Gregory King                             Internet: gking at arserrc.gov
Eastern Rgnl. Rsrch. Cntr., ARS, USDA       Voice: (1) 215 233 6675
600 East Mermaid Lane                         Fax: (1) 215 233 6559
Philadelphia, PA  19118-2551

Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed in this message are mine.
====================================================================

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:33:43 -0400
From: danmcc at umich.edu (Dan McConnell)
Subject: dangerous chemical in beer


Being the responsible net citizen that I am, I feel compelled to pass on
this article about this dangerous chemical.  Not only do we have to concern
ourselves with Vomitoxin due to the use of moldy barley, but now there is this
threat.

The second item on the list indicates that it is found in beer.  My
research indicates that it is lower in homebrew than many commercial beers
and seems to be highest in Lite, Dry and Ice products.  Just another reason
to avoid them.

DanMcC

========
The Invisible Killer

Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted
thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by
accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do
not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue
damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and
urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body
electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal
means certain death.

   Dihydrogen monoxide:
       is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain.
       is found in high concentrations in beer.
       contributes to the "greenhouse effect."
       may cause severe burns.
       contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
       accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
       may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of
          automobile brakes.
       has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

   Contamination Is Reaching Epidemic Proportions!
Quantities of dihydrogen monoxide have been found in almost every stream,
lake, and reservoir in America today. But the pollution is global, and the
contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice. DHMO has caused millions
of dollars of property damage in the midwest, and recently
California.

   Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:
       as an industrial solvent and coolant.
       in nuclear power plants.
       in the production of styrofoam.
       as a fire retardant.
       in many forms of cruel animal research.
       in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce
          remains contaminated by this chemical.
       as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be
done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on
wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

    The Horror Must Be Stopped!
The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or
use of this damaging chemical due to its "importance to the economic health
of this nation." In fact, the navy and other military organizations are
conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar
devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of
military research facilities receive tons of it through a highly
sophisticated underground distribution network. Many store large quantities
for later use.

    It's Not Too Late!
Act NOW to prevent further contamination. Find out more about this
dangerous chemical. What you don't know can hurt you and others throughout
the world. Send email to no_dhmo at circus.com.

Original author: Coalition to Ban DHMO, 211 Pearl St., Santa Cruz CA, 95060



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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 12:43:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Oatmeal Mash Technique


Someone here or in r.c.b asked about mashing oatmeal.  I can't find
the article in r.c.b, so I'll post here a method I just tried.  The
recipe includes .6Kg oatmeal and 2.5Kg pale malt.  Not wanting to
risk mashing that much oatmeal, I did as follows:

1) Put oatmeal in pot with about 6L water at 140F.  This mix was
   very, very thin and was stirred well as its temp was raised to
   gel the oatmeal.  I found a big increase in viscosity at about
   148F, with (I think) complete gelling at about 150-155F.  I raised
   temp to 160-165F to check for increased gelatinization, but didn't
   see any effect.

2) Strain the oatmeal from the liquid and wash in a hot water bath.
   Stir this second mix well then strain, pouring the liquid in with
   the first "runnings".  This provided about 6L of industrial-grade
   starch with nearly the viscosity of latex paint.  Heat to 164F.

3) While doing 1) and 2), dough-in the pale malt in a separate
   container.  I used 1Kg of Klages to provide the conversion power
   and 1.5Kg of British 2-row to mask the aroma of the Klages :-).

4) After the dough-in, I added in the starch water and the remainder
   of the grain bill.  After 45 min I sampled and filtered a mL or
   two of wort thru a coffee filter for an iodine test, which showed
   no starch at all.

5) Sparge per your favorite procedure.

Since there was no oatmeal grain in the mash, sparging was normal.
Based on yield I think there was a lot of starch left in the oatmeal
grain, even though I rinsed it with hot water. Still, by buying
Safeway's house brand oatmeal in the Survivalist Size can, the loss
using this technique is tolerable.  It was much easier and less
stressing that trying to mash with that big an oatmeal payload.

Hope this helps the requestor, and everyone's comments are solicited.

As an aside, on the two or three occassions when I've chosen Klages
malt to play with, the aroma nearly makes me ill.  I can understand
now why Spousal Unit dislikes the brewing thing, although I can't
get enough of the smell of a British 2-row mash.  Anyone else?

KRF Colorado Springs

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Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:38:55 EDT
From: HYMT59A at prodigy.com (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)
Subject: Mashout temp responses

Thanks to all who responded to my question on how to achieve mash out 
temp with a Gott cooler. In summary: 1) Withdraw appropriate amount 
of liquid from cooler, heat to boil, return to Gott to achieve 170F.  
2) Add appropriate amount of boiling water to Gott to achieve 170F   
3) Sparge with 200F water  4) do nothing, will effect efficiency 
slightly  5) Use a tea kettle or pressure cooker as  a steam 
generator;  connect kettle or cooker to Gott  (through open top of 
Gott) with a 1/4 in.  "U" shaped copper tube to inject steam into 
mash until 170F acheived.

 Here is formula for exact liquid to add to Gott.  1)  Withdraw 
liquid from mash:  gal to withdraw=(gal of mash)(170-temp of 
mash)/(212-temp of mash).  2)  Add boiling  water:  Gal required = 
(gal of mash)(170-temp of mash)/42.       Both assume specific heat  
of mash is = 1 (same as water).  Formulas courtesy of Spencer Thomas.


Thanks for all your help.

Scott


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1864, 10/23/95