HOMEBREW Digest #1864 Mon 23 October 1995

Digest #1863 Digest #1865

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Mashing system (jim_robinson)
  a question of glassware (Todd Gierman)
  Home toasted malt / Wheat for head retention (Keith Frank)
  Fitting an aluminum pot with a drain (Mike Dowd)
  Charlie's IPA (Glenn Tinseth)
  Mash Tuns (blacksab)
  AL pots/mystery bitterness/yeast lag (BF3B8RL)
  Fields of Barley (hadleyse)
  pumpkinbrau ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  mason jars (Mike White)
  Styles or Lack Thereof (Mike White)
  Suggestions on Recipe (Gary McCarthy)
  Bottle Neck Woes (Eric Peters  919- 405-3675)
  Re: freezers vs fridges (hollen)
  Cooling/Settling Process/Yeast Starters ("Drago, J. MAJ              DAD")
  recovering stuck batches ("Taber, Bruce")
  iodophor (Pierre Jelenc)
  Ooops! (IHomeBrew)
  Re: Styles Vs Eclecticism ("Edmund C. Hack")
  Styles : Thread Continuation (Ken Schroeder)
  brown sugar equivalent (GREGORY KING)
  dangerous chemical in beer (Dan McConnell)
  Oatmeal Mash Technique ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Mashout temp responses (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 16:41:05 PST From: jim_robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com Subject: Mashing system Well it's been a long time between postings, but I finally have something of interest to add. If you remember, I've long been an advocate of the Coleman Industrial 10 gallon water cooler as a mashing vessel. It's been 2 years and many gallons later, and its still as good as new. The Coleman cooler cost $22.00 dollars! At any rate, I'm building a new Mashing system, which I will describe below, and I found another reason why the Coleman is the BEST cooler made (kidding). I found that a 5/8 copper pipe is a perfect press fit through the standard Coleman spigot. Just remove the guts, warm up the fitting, and press the pipe through. Sure makes for a clean manifold and ball valve connection. The real reason for this post, is to see if I have made any logic errors in designing my new mashing/sparging/boiling/cooling set up. Here's the basic setup. I bought an outdoor/double jet burner propane stove (30k Btu). Its built into a real heavy duty stand (Costco $99.00). Its mounted into a "semi-tower" setup with the old faithful Coleman at the top of the tower overlooking the burners. On the two burners is the 15 and 10 gallon boilers which will be used for hot liquor/boiling and sparge water. Mounted to the tower is a March MDX-3 pump. The idea is to monitor the temperature in the hot liquor/boiling keg and pump it through the Coleman till the water stabilizes at the appropriate temperature. Of course the liquid will run through the cooler and gravity feed back into the hot liquor/boiling keg. I assume the 30K burner will be adequate for this purpose. The liquid will recirculate through copper pipe and will have the appropriate manifolds on the top and bottom of the grain bed. After the appropriate temperature is reached, the pump will deliver all the liquid to the Coleman and the heat is turned off until conversion. At this point you can use this setup as a RIMs system and recirculate the run-off. Don't really know if this is necessary. After this step the pump will transfer the sparge water from the second boiler through the Coleman and back into the hot/liquor boiler until sparging is completed. At this point it's the standard boiling procedure. The only other spin is using the pump to pump the wort through my counter flow chiller that is mounted under the burner stand. The whole system is mounted on rollers and can be wheeled around the garage (no I won't use it inside the garage). HEY..WAKE UP! Sorry. So here's the deal. Any reason why this won't work? I like the idea of reaching my temperatures by recirculating the mash. I always seem to miss my temperature when I do a single step infusion mash in the cooler. I also like pumping up the old Coleman and kicking back for an hour or so. No temperature controllers, electric heaters or scorching. I think that this could be called the Towering RIMS cooler masher or something like that. All replies/criticisms are appreciated. Jim Robinson Aliso Viejo Ca. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 21:53:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Todd Gierman <tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu> Subject: a question of glassware Some people take their serving (glass)ware very seriously (just look at the variety that Belgian beers are served in). I have a question concerning glassware and I suspect that it can be answered here. My mother recently presented me with two large and very heavy goblets of leaded glass. She maintains that they are called Shoopers (Shupers, Schoopers, Choupars?) and hinted that they cost her a pretty penny at an auction. She claims that they are servingware for beer. They are kind of interesting, although not at all ornate. They hold about 3/4 liter of beer and seem very appropriate for Belgian trappist-style beers. These guys are definitely leaded crystal as they were flagged coming through the airport x-ray scanner. Does anyone know anything about customs or history sorrounding this type of "beer glass"? I've seen beer served in 1-liter mugs, but never in stemware this large. TIA, Todd Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 21:02:21 -0500 From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank) Subject: Home toasted malt / Wheat for head retention ***** from Bruce DeBolt ******* 1. Home Toasted Malt In the latest Zymurgy special issue on Malt there are two articles dealing with home malt toasting. On page 28 Robert Grossman recommends toasting malt the same day you plan to brew because "... most of these flavorful aromatics quickly dissipate". However, on page 73 Paul Hale writes that freshly roasted grains can be somewhat harsh and recommends letting them mellow a couple weeks before using. I'm interested in the Toasty Cream Ale recipe on page 30 (Grossman article), so would prefer a mellow, rather than assertive toasty flavor contribution. Perhaps Hale is mainly referring to darker home roasted grains. What is the opinion of those who have done this before? I really enjoyed this issue and would recommend it to those who don't subscribe but would like an up to date, concise reference on malt and mashing. How do others feel about this issue? 2. Wheat for Head Retention I typically use 1/2 lb malted wheat for improved head retention in my single temp. infusion all grain batches. Would there be any benefit (for head retention) in doing a stove top mash for the wheat that includes a protein rest before heating to saccharification temp. and adding to the Gott cooler? TIA, Bruce DeBolt Lake Jackson, TX Direct e-mail usdowq6c at ibmmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 00:22:29 -0500 From: mdost3+ at pitt.edu (Mike Dowd) Subject: Fitting an aluminum pot with a drain Yesterday, I tried to fit my 8 gallon aluminum pot (which I use for boiling) with a drain (brass). The walls of the pot are pretty thick, so I drilled a hole (about .5 in.) and tapped it. The drain valve goes in nice and tight, but it leaks, especially when I heat the pot. I probably should have expected this, but my desire for a drain outweighed my caution. Is there any way I can salvage this situation, or have I ruined this kettle? Would I be able to get a decent seal if I used some nuts and washers and tightened things up really well? How about putting teflon tape on the threads? Or do teflon and wort not mix? Please help. Thanks in advance, Mike Michael Dowd "I could be mistaken. Maybe it was another Slippery Slope Research bald-headed jigsaw-puzzle tattooed naked University of Pittsburgh guy I saw." mdost3+ at pitt.edu -Fox Mulder Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:05:25 -0700 From: gtinseth at teleport.com (Glenn Tinseth) Subject: Charlie's IPA CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> writes: >Thanks to Dr. Gillian Grafton for the historical record on the flavour >European Oak. I knew about pitch lined beer barrels but correctly guessed the >IPA barrels weren't lined because I've never seen a lined wooden barrel on a >sailing boat. The endless motion literally polishes it off, the inside is >quite >smooth. The motion and heat would also probably render the beer completely >flat. My point about the now fashionable sharp bitterness and hop aroma >stands. But your comment re: oak flavor in IPA lies flat on its back, gasping for air ;^) And what leads you to believe that a trip to India in a oak barrel would dissipate the bitterness of a 100+ BU (if historical recipes are true) IPA? Perhaps the hop aroma and flavor would take a serious hit in the trip around the Horn, but I think that the bitterness would survive, at least into the 60 or better BU range. I think you need to read the IPA articles by Thomlinson (in Brewing Techniques) mentioned previously. OB styles: So how would you suggest a homebrew or craft brew competition be judged, in the absence of rigid styles? How do you propose to eliminate the natural tendancy to favor a barley wine over a mild (i.e. the bigger the beer, the more we tend to like it). Glenn Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 06:58:56 -0500 From: blacksab at siu.edu Subject: Mash Tuns Paul<PJS at uic.edu> asked about fittings on mash tuns and Easymashers: I've ben using the Easymasher for a while now, and it works fine. My only complaint is that the end of the spigot where the plastic tube goes is less than perfect. Here's an alternative to welding: 1. Begin with a brass, 3/8-inch NPT nipple, whatever length you desire. 2. Using teflon tape, install a full-flow brass ball-valve and hand tighten 3. Get a brass plumbing nut and crank it down onto the other end of the nipple as tight as it will go. By wrenching the "nut" on the ball-valve with the plumbing nut, pipe wrenches are not needed, and the nipple is not marred for life. 4. Drill hole in keg so the nipple fits in just so--it should not have to be threaded in, but there shouldn't be a lot of slop either. 5. On the inside of the keg, screw onto the nipple a 3/8-in FPT x 3/8-in Compression fitting with a fiber washer between the fitting and the inside of the keg. Crank it down tight. 6. Attatch Easymasher assembly to fitting or make your own. NOTES: The correct size washer is not made to my knowlege, get one with a smaller hole and carefully file with a rat-tail. Make sure that the washer fits the mating surface of the compression fitting. Teflon tape on the inside is not necessary, and be sure not to use too long a nipple, it will break off the keg. AND MOST IMPORTANT!!!!! Do not attempt to get this stuff anywhere except a REAL hardware store, especially the fiber washers. If they don't sell nails loose by the pound in double-weight paperbags, it's probably not a real hardware store. Just because Home Despot (sic) doesn't sell it doesn't mean that it's not available. Sure, maybe you can save a few pennies, but try asking for advice some time; and see if they'll send you to another store if they don't have something. At a real hardware store...oh, sorry, I'm ranting...;-) Hope this helps, --Harlan **************************************************************************** * Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can * * <blacksab at siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man. * * Carbondale, IL --A.E. Houseman * * * **************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:06:07 -0400 From: BF3B8RL at TPLANCH.BELL-ATL.COM Subject: AL pots/mystery bitterness/yeast lag HBDers - I have three questions for the collective. (I really must learn not to save these up....) *************** #1 ******************** On the alumimum pot discussion: I decided last week to use the AL pot that came with my propane burner (a brinkmann) to heat up infusion/sparge water. Now I live in the DC area, and I get my water from the Potomac river (as opposed to the Patuxent river). This water was run through a carbon activated filter before heating. I noticed to my dismay that the AL pot turned translucent BLACK --- obviously some sort of reaction with the water. Not worrying, I used the water anyway. When I used a little acid (for sparging) in the water, it dissolved the BLACK coating on the AL pot. Again, I refused to get concerned and used the water anyway. After all, does anyone really worry about the layer of oxidation on their copper chillers that disappears with use? Any ideas on what's going on here? Clearly, this reaction is telling me something about my pot or my water or both. ********************* #2 ****************** On a related note (and here's where my water source comes in), I've noticed that since moving into my current house, my beer has adopted a strage harsh bitter character that I can't seem to pinpoint. In fact, I shoot for IBUs generally low for a particular style (don't confuse this with the style thread), and still IMHO end up with beers that are middle to high in bitterness. The "harsh" flavor seemed to rear its head when my water source changed from the Patuxent to the Potomac. Here's a very brief comparison of the two (in ppm): Ca Mg Chloride Sulfate Potomac 39.1 7.7 33.9 33.2 Patuxent 16.2 3.6 13.7 12.5 I've tried using distilled water this year, but I think that I still have this harshness (all brews for this year are still aging, awaiting their first pour). I've also changed from acid blend to citric acid, but I've never used much of either (1/16 tsp per 5ga?). Finally I tend to sparge on the low side, just to assure myself that I won't be in phenol city. Any ideas? How do you other Wash DC brewers treat your water? **************** #3 *************************************** Finally, a yeast question. I recently read here that it is best to pitch starter yeast once it has settled, since glycogen (sp?) is at a max. Having run a few marathons, this made sense to me. So a brewed up a batch of Ocktoberfest, and pitched the settled slurry of Wyeast's Bavarian strain (total of about 20oz starter) in a cooled (about 80F -- this is as good as my chiller gets this time of year) aerated batch of about 6 gallons. The slurry and starter were at room temperature (70F) The lag on this was 36 hours before a layer of foam built up on the top of the beer. Once active, I slowly cooled the beer from 68F to 53F over a day or so. It is now fermenting VERY happily. In the past, normal lag times for me were usually 24 hrs or less. But, in the past I pitched the starter at high krausen. However, my past lagers have always slowed down to a crawl once I cooled them into the 50s. So here is my delema: did pitching settled yeast trigger the long lag (bad) and subsequent very active primary at lager temps (good)? Or are my results random/subject to the particular yeast strain? Perhaps you yeast gurus have some answers. TIA, Chas Peterson charles.b.peterson at bell-atl.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 09:27:08 EDT From: hadleyse at pweh.com Subject: Fields of Barley Does anyone have any data on the average quantity of barley (in lbs) that a one acre field can produce? Thanks in advance. Scott Hadley Hartford, CT Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Oct 1995 06:43:06 PDT From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> Subject: pumpkinbrau From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade) To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR Subject: pumpkinbrau Date: 1995-10-20 08:33 Priority: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Clarke wites: > Wade Wallinger posted this not-too-long-ago: > <snip> > >Rinse the pumkin, leave skin on and cut into large sections. Bake in 350f > >oven for 1hr 15min. Remove skin and crush meat. > <snip> > Good Luck! ...and I thought I would reply. When I posted this I recall adding the comment that the sparge wasn't much of a problem when I made this recipe a year ago. I made this batch last weekend and stand corrected. I must have enjoyed this brew so much last year (which I intend to do again this year) that I completely forgot what a PITA the sparging was. Thank goodness that pumpkin season only rolls around once each year. What I ended up doing was to add sparge water and then stir to get any flow at all. I will add though that the snippet from Mike was a very easy part of the process. Oh, and I did use pie pumpkins, not Jack O'lantern pumpkins (my children wouldn't let me!). Wade Wallinger brewing contraband on the Mississippi Gulf Coast Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:58:36 -0500 From: mike at datasync.com (Mike White) Subject: mason jars On Oct. 19 Mark W Levesque wrote: >A friend of mine has loads of the mason type canning jars in his >basement. They must be airtight since people use them to can veggies > >etc. for the long term. Anyone out there ever try using those to >bottle home brew? I guess one concern would be strength/thickness of > >the glass. I have been canning veggies for longer than I have been brewing beer and think you should keep in mind that Mason jars are designed to hold a slight vacuum. Normally vegetables are put in the jars hot and then the lids are put on. As the air space above the veggies cools it contracts causing a slight vacuum. The lids on Mason jars are engineered to hold pressure out, not to hold pressure in. Also, the heat involved in canning hot vegetables softens the rubber (plastic?) seal in the lid and allows it to conform to any deformities in the glass rim of the jar when the lid is screwed on. I don't think you are going to be bottling your beer under high heat. However, that is not to say that a Mason jar will not hold the pressure of carbonated beverage. An idea for a quick test would be to pour a bottle of beer into a Mason jar, firmly screw on a new lid (don't re-use old lids as the seals are deformed from use) and shake the heck out of it. If the jar hold the pressure....well then I would assume you could use them for bottling. Let us know if it works! - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thought for the day: If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians! - ------------------------------------------------------------ Mike White mike at datasync.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:58:39 -0500 From: mike at datasync.com (Mike White) Subject: Styles or Lack Thereof On Oct. 18 Richard Scotty wrote: >While an arguement can be made that American Lager is a legitimate >category, why is it so finely parsed? I can't tell the difference between >Red Dog (gold medal winner??) and Miller Genuine Draft, yet they are >entered in separate categories. Although I agree with your statements about categorizing beer types I must say that there is a definate taste difference between MGD and Red Dog. Tastes like they forgot to put the hops in Red Dog. Not that either compare with a batch of homebrew! - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thought for the day: If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians! - ------------------------------------------------------------ Mike White mike at datasync.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 08:20:04 -0700 From: gmccarthy at dayna.com (Gary McCarthy) Subject: Suggestions on Recipe Hi all: Going to Arts Brewshop in SLC to get ingredients for a Traditional Porter, Art pointed out that he had Carastan and Brown malts. I realized that these malts were kinda rare, and I got to thinking about making a sort of sweet brown ale from them. Looking in Homebrew Favorites, I see a recipe for a Deer Abbey from the Brews Bros of Seattle, but I want to modify the recipe to just have 8 lbs malted barley, 3 lb of Munich, 1 lb brown malt, and 1 lb of Carastan. Hops - maybe 1 oz Kent-Golding and 1 oz of Hallertau. Yeast - of course! Any comments the taste of this ale, any comments for modification? PS-Fri morning and stanford.edu site does not contain the homebrew archive, what is wrong? I was there yesterday. Temporary outage, I hope! Thanks Gary McCarthy in Salt Lake City Don't ever tell them that you knew my name, gmccarthy at dayna.com my darling, Sugaree! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 10:21:46 EDT From: epeters at rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters 919- 405-3675) Subject: Bottle Neck Woes >From Ed Iaciofano in HBD #1862: >Rolland Everitt writes about white spots in his bottles: > >>...I used >>Edme dried ale yeast for that batch, and am still wondering >>what the spots are all about, ... > >Gosh Rolland, have you been in my basement? I used two packs of EDME ale >yeast for each of my last two batches, a stout and a brown ale. Each beer >has white spots in the beer around the neck of *some* of the bottles. >Because it seemed random I thought that the problem was dirty/infected >bottles. The beer smelled fine and foamed like crazy when I poured it down >the sink... > >I used EDME ale yeast because it was quick and came in 11g packs. I think >I'll be going back to the liquid packs even if this problem is only yeast >floating around. > Before pouring suspect beer down the drain, take a good pull from several bottles. It's highly unlikely that you will have any adverse reactions from a few tastes of potentially infected brew. Never rely on sight and smell alone. If you believe a batch is infected, stash it away for six weeks and try it again, it might improve. Don't be frightened by white spots or bottle neck rings. My brother and I saw these on about half of the bottles from our first ~100 gallons (all were all-grain using Wyeast). None of the bottles were bad. We began to suspect the spots and/or rings were the result of protein coagulation, possibly from our DME primer. Before we could verify any of this, we gave away our bottles and began kegging. The spots and rings could barely be seen, but were there, and we never had an infected bottle. Eric Peters RTP, NC epeters at rtp.semi.harris.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:31:46 -0700 From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Re: freezers vs fridges I agree that the capacity of a chest freezer is wonderful, but the downside of them is that when they run, the coil areas get so cold so fast that they cause condensation. Then this runs down and pools in the bottom. This eventually mildews. If anyone has a solution for this (other than frequent cleaning) I would appreciate it. Yes, I do use a temp controller set at 55F. My freezer runs about 3 hours out of every 24. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen at vigra.com Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 10:29:00 PDT From: "Drago, J. MAJ DAD" <TJ2996 at dad.usma.army.mil> Subject: Cooling/Settling Process/Yeast Starters I am an extract brewer. My last three batches have come out with a very bitter, almost "mediciny" taste and smell. I do not think these batches were contaminated, but I'm not sure. Each of these batches had some things in common. First, British Wyeast, which I've read ferments out very dry. Second, 12 oz. of clover honey added to the extract and hops during boiling, which I've also read contributes to dryness, and third a new cooling and settling process that I tried in order to facilitate the use of a yeast starter. This process goes as follows: Once the wort for the entire batch comes to a boil, I extract about 20 oz. of the wort, cool it, add it to a starter vessel, and pitch the yeast. I let that get going for about 24 hours while the remainder of the wort which was added to 3.5 gallons of cold water cools and settles for the same 24 hours. When the starter reaches high krausen, I rack from the settling bucket to the primary and pitch the yeast by opening the spigot on the settling bucket and letting the beer splash into the yeast in my primary. Normal fermentation occurs. Is there a problem with oxidation or anything else which is causing these bitter off-flavors. Any advice appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 10:42:00 EDT From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA> Subject: recovering stuck batches Hi again. On Friday, Bill Kitt Jr. asked if he could recover his batch (IMBR) by raising its temperature from a too low temp in the 50's, up to the mid 60's. The answer is yes. Yeast tends to go dormant when the temperature drops, it doesn't die. Raising the temperature will get it going again no problem. I would suggest though, to bring the temp up to the upper 60's or very low 70's. This is what the dry packaged yeasts tend to prefer. (I assume you are using a dry ale type). Last year I had a batch in my basement in my heated brew box at 21C (70F). It had been working for a couple of days when my basement flooded. I live in the country and have to rely on a sump pump to keep my basement dry. Anyway, my 5 gal. carboy became half submerged in 4C (40F) water. I was defiantly concerned but after pumping out the basement and warming up the batch it finished up with no problems. Maybe I should describe my brew box. I'm sure similar boxes are used by many brewers. I live close to Ottawa in Canada and my basement stays cool all year. During a real hot spell in the summer (over 30C ) it only gets to about 20C. I built a plywood box that is big enough for my fermenter to sit in. It has a false bottom that holds the fermenter about 6" off the cool floor. In the 6" space I have a 150W light bulb that provides heat. It is controlled by an inexpensive thermostat mounted in the box where the fermentor sits. It is a thermostat for an electric baseboard heater. I also have a cheap outdoor thermometer mounted in the box. The thermostat has an on / off band of about 4C. The bottom of the box has a number of large holes cut in it to allow the heat to rise into the box easier. The holes are covered from below by a sheet of aluminum foil to keep out the light. This allows me to keep my ales at a somewhat controlled temperature year round. It is also handy for siphoning since I can sit my carboy on top of the box. Another question posed in Friday's HBD was by Ed Lustenader. He wanted to know if his beer was ruined because it had stopped fermenting after only 24 hrs. What you didn't mention ED was what the specific gravity was. Yeast is quite forgiving but it can also be quite mischievous. Without checking the SG you are only guessing as to whether there is a problem or not. Buy for now, Bruce Taber taber at irc.lan.nrc.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 11:04:31 EDT From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: iodophor Craig Amundsen <amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu> asks: > The other day I found myself in the local Fleet Farm(tm) (what a _great_ > store! (#include <std.disclaimer>)), so I strolled over to the dairy section. > It was my intention to buy a gallon of iodophor-based tank sanitizer for $10. > I did find some sanitizer for $10/gallon. It was a no rinse variety and had > a certain amount of "titratable iodine" in it. The problem is that the label > didn't have the word "iodophor". It did have a very long chemical name (no > doubt IUPAC approved) that started with iodine. Does anyone know the actual > chemical name for iodophor? There is no "chemical name" for iodophor, because it should really be "iodophors": it is a class, or family, of molecular compounds that all contain iodine together with a carrier. There are a good half dozen carriers in use, of which polypyrrolidones and polyethers are the most common. They all work pretty much the same way, although the details ("free iodine" concentration at a given dilution) are different. That you probably did see an iodophor is given away by the term "titrable iodine", since only in the context of iodophors does it make sense to distinguish "titrable", or "total", iodine and "free" iodine from "just plain iodine". Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:06:36 -0400 From: IHomeBrew at aol.com Subject: Ooops! Ooops! I erroneously stated in HBD #1862 the conversion formula for converting Celsius to Farenheit. The correct formula is: Fahrenheit = 9/5*Celsius + 32 (I'm a victim of cut & paste -- yeah, blame the technology! Thanks Eric.) ...Clark Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:16:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack at crl.com> Subject: Re: Styles Vs Eclecticism On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, in HBD 1862, CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> wrote, on the style standards debate: > I rest my case! From and outsider's point of view (I have never competed >or known of a competition, I am outside organized homebrewing) with >experience of wine competitions, this seems absurd. Wine is grouped into >styles (usually grape varieties) and judged on excellence. I have never >heard of points for comformance to style?! > I'm a relavitely new homebrewer (one year) and Beer Geek (tm), who is also learning to become a Wine Snob (tm). One thing that I have learned about wine in the reading of Wine Spectator over the last year, is that in wine judging, there is a style conformance being enforced. It is unwritten, changes, and greatly influences commercial winemaking. For example, the whites are becoming fruitier and less dry due to style preferences of judges at several important competitions in the US. It is even spilling over into the judging of reds. It is a source of much consternation, because wines made to "classic" flavor profiles are not winning medals, even though they are as good of wines as before - they are just out of favor. I see the beer judging as being modeled after dog judging. For each breed of dog, there is a standard. Judges compare the dog to the standard, and the winning dogs are those closest to the standard. Admittedly, they don't have the point scoring, but they do have disqualifiers. Is my purebred Pembroke Welsh Corgi any less of a pet because he has a disqualifying mark (a spot of white on his nose)? No, he's a great pet, but he can't be a Champion Corgi, however. Maybe what the AHA/BJCP might consider doing for "orphan" beers that don't have a category is have an "open" category - any beer not fitting into the other styles goes here. If popular, they might go into so subdivisions of light/dark, lager/ale, high/low OG, etc. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 09:44:15 PDT From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder) Subject: Styles : Thread Continuation Rich Scotty questions the "finely parsed" American Lager catagory for the GABF. He mentions that budswilloors are virtually the only competitors in that catagory and this arrangement was created to "award medals to the big three". Well, Rich, doesn't AoB look a lot like AB? I think your correct in your assumption, but then the big three brew the vast majority of beer consumed in the USA. I haven't any proof, but, it would figure that budswilloors contribute significant $$$ to AoB. AoB had better make, what would appear to be big customers, happy. Give'm medals to adorn coorperate headquaters! (By the way, this isn't a slam against GABF or AoB, it is just one interpitation of the situation. The GABF should begin to take on the significance it's British counterpart as the years pass.) As far as needing more styles in the American Amber Ale catagory: many catagories need more styles. Some catagories need to be redifined. Some styles need to be moved around. Al Korozonas replies to Charlie Scandrett that it would be hard to combine American Bock and Helles Bock in the same catagory due to the heavier qualities of Helles Bock. This is similar to the lighter American Wheat style compaired to most of the sour European Wheat styles. The American Wheat would be overwhelmed. Some times the style names are misleading. Catagorization of a style should be based on common sensory qualities. This is part of what makes new styles and style catagoization a difficult task. Charlie further state that the "progressive brewer in Burton...would try to figure out what is positive for brewing, and what is negative, in the ionic soup they call water...A craft stylist in the USA would be tinkering just a feverisly to duplicate the natural Burton water exactly ....to replicate the "true" Burton style". This has some truth in it, but misses the point for a "true craft stylist brewer", anywhere in the world. Replicating the Burton water is the first step into learning what makes Burton water work well for the hoppy pale ales. Craft brewers also try to replicate Vienna water to see what makes Vienna beers to malty and smooth. >From such experimentation, brewers around the world may learn what to add to their brewing water to bring forth the qualities they are trying to achieve. The same is done with malts, hops, and yeast. It is from this "educated state" that new styles may emerge. Commercial brewing virtually prohibits this experimentation. Most pro brewers in this area (SF Bay Area) that I know (and that is quite a few) all started in homebrewing. When working on a new beer, they go back to their roots and brew in home systems. When these pilot batches are perfected, they are brough into the brewery in tweaked to accomodate the larger brewing volumes and equipment differences. So, new beers, therefore new styles, are truely created in the homebrew environmment. At least that is what has been I have seen happen in this area. yummm.... As I stated in an earlier post: the oganizations that issue guidelines for judging are willing to listen to us (the brewers) sugestions. It will take many brewers with the same sugestions and examples to get these organizations to take action. As pointed out in this post, even us, the brewers, can't agree on common catagorization of styles. Imagine the problems that the BJCP and the AHA have trying to get consenous with all the brewers of the USA and/or the rest of the world. If this post pissed off any of the organizations mentioned ( AoB, AHA, budswilloors) or people, so sorry. There is no bashing intended here, I am just stating my OPINION, though my emotional feelings may show through ;^). Ken Schroeder Sequoia Brewing (a nano brewery dedicated to developing excellent beers Redweood City, Ca. that may or may not fit into a "defined" style) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:08:06 -0400 (EDT) From: GREGORY KING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: brown sugar equivalent Greetings HBDfolk, I have a recipe that calls for a small amount (1 lb) of brown sugar. I know (from Papazian) that brown sugar is simply regular old table sugar with a small amount of molasses added to it. Do any of you know the relative amounts of white sugar and molasses in brown sugar (light and/or dark). The reason I ask is that I'd rather use honey in place of the white sugar component. Thanks. Greg ==================================================================== Gregory King Internet: gking at arserrc.gov Eastern Rgnl. Rsrch. Cntr., ARS, USDA Voice: (1) 215 233 6675 600 East Mermaid Lane Fax: (1) 215 233 6559 Philadelphia, PA 19118-2551 Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed in this message are mine. ==================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:33:43 -0400 From: danmcc at umich.edu (Dan McConnell) Subject: dangerous chemical in beer Being the responsible net citizen that I am, I feel compelled to pass on this article about this dangerous chemical. Not only do we have to concern ourselves with Vomitoxin due to the use of moldy barley, but now there is this threat. The second item on the list indicates that it is found in beer. My research indicates that it is lower in homebrew than many commercial beers and seems to be highest in Lite, Dry and Ice products. Just another reason to avoid them. DanMcC ======== The Invisible Killer Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death. Dihydrogen monoxide: is also known as hydroxyl acid, and is the major component of acid rain. is found in high concentrations in beer. contributes to the "greenhouse effect." may cause severe burns. contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape. accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals. may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes. has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients. Contamination Is Reaching Epidemic Proportions! Quantities of dihydrogen monoxide have been found in almost every stream, lake, and reservoir in America today. But the pollution is global, and the contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice. DHMO has caused millions of dollars of property damage in the midwest, and recently California. Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used: as an industrial solvent and coolant. in nuclear power plants. in the production of styrofoam. as a fire retardant. in many forms of cruel animal research. in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical. as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products. Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer! The Horror Must Be Stopped! The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or use of this damaging chemical due to its "importance to the economic health of this nation." In fact, the navy and other military organizations are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of military research facilities receive tons of it through a highly sophisticated underground distribution network. Many store large quantities for later use. It's Not Too Late! Act NOW to prevent further contamination. Find out more about this dangerous chemical. What you don't know can hurt you and others throughout the world. Send email to no_dhmo at circus.com. Original author: Coalition to Ban DHMO, 211 Pearl St., Santa Cruz CA, 95060 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 12:43:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Oatmeal Mash Technique Someone here or in r.c.b asked about mashing oatmeal. I can't find the article in r.c.b, so I'll post here a method I just tried. The recipe includes .6Kg oatmeal and 2.5Kg pale malt. Not wanting to risk mashing that much oatmeal, I did as follows: 1) Put oatmeal in pot with about 6L water at 140F. This mix was very, very thin and was stirred well as its temp was raised to gel the oatmeal. I found a big increase in viscosity at about 148F, with (I think) complete gelling at about 150-155F. I raised temp to 160-165F to check for increased gelatinization, but didn't see any effect. 2) Strain the oatmeal from the liquid and wash in a hot water bath. Stir this second mix well then strain, pouring the liquid in with the first "runnings". This provided about 6L of industrial-grade starch with nearly the viscosity of latex paint. Heat to 164F. 3) While doing 1) and 2), dough-in the pale malt in a separate container. I used 1Kg of Klages to provide the conversion power and 1.5Kg of British 2-row to mask the aroma of the Klages :-). 4) After the dough-in, I added in the starch water and the remainder of the grain bill. After 45 min I sampled and filtered a mL or two of wort thru a coffee filter for an iodine test, which showed no starch at all. 5) Sparge per your favorite procedure. Since there was no oatmeal grain in the mash, sparging was normal. Based on yield I think there was a lot of starch left in the oatmeal grain, even though I rinsed it with hot water. Still, by buying Safeway's house brand oatmeal in the Survivalist Size can, the loss using this technique is tolerable. It was much easier and less stressing that trying to mash with that big an oatmeal payload. Hope this helps the requestor, and everyone's comments are solicited. As an aside, on the two or three occassions when I've chosen Klages malt to play with, the aroma nearly makes me ill. I can understand now why Spousal Unit dislikes the brewing thing, although I can't get enough of the smell of a British 2-row mash. Anyone else? KRF Colorado Springs Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:38:55 EDT From: HYMT59A at prodigy.com (MR SCOTT H MOBERG) Subject: Mashout temp responses Thanks to all who responded to my question on how to achieve mash out temp with a Gott cooler. In summary: 1) Withdraw appropriate amount of liquid from cooler, heat to boil, return to Gott to achieve 170F. 2) Add appropriate amount of boiling water to Gott to achieve 170F 3) Sparge with 200F water 4) do nothing, will effect efficiency slightly 5) Use a tea kettle or pressure cooker as a steam generator; connect kettle or cooker to Gott (through open top of Gott) with a 1/4 in. "U" shaped copper tube to inject steam into mash until 170F acheived. Here is formula for exact liquid to add to Gott. 1) Withdraw liquid from mash: gal to withdraw=(gal of mash)(170-temp of mash)/(212-temp of mash). 2) Add boiling water: Gal required = (gal of mash)(170-temp of mash)/42. Both assume specific heat of mash is = 1 (same as water). Formulas courtesy of Spencer Thomas. Thanks for all your help. Scott Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1864, 10/23/95