FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Airlock Contents (krkoupa)
  mash/lauter tun scorching (Bryan L. Gros)
  Bubbles (Sascha Kaplan)
  RE:Wanna learn about yeast? (David Pike)
  Schneider Weisse yeast (Rolland Everitt)
  secondaries (Algis R Korzonas)
  Pete's Wicked Bottles (Michael A Yehle)
  Re:   clogged airlocks (Tim Fields)
  Update- concrete roller mill (C.D. Pritchard)
  Wort Storage (Al Stevens)
  Propane indoors (Al Stevens)
  Diaphragms.. Thanks (SCHWAB_BRYAN)
  pH testing (Harlan Bauer)
  RE: WYeast 2178 (Russ Kruska)
  boilers (DONBREW)
  Wyeast 2112 for a lager? (Steve Zabarnick)
  Bruheat (Danny Mastre)
  Racking off trub/orphaned yeast ("Michael R. Swan")
  Re: Roasting Grains (Jeff Renner)
  recipe help (Cherisse Gardner)
  Airlock blowoff and Trappist Gypsum. (Russell Mast)
  Scientific Suppliers (BrianE)
  Trub/Racking (Jim Busch)
  Wyeast #1056 question ("Robert Marshall")
  Using oatmeal in a partial mash (Tim Wauters)
  NO SUBJECT (usd2nz86)
  Gas Piping (BrianE)
  EasyMasher usage (Rich Larsen)
  Airlock solution (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Yeast, Neck rings, and the ("Craig Rode")
  Re: Airlock Fluid (Bob Sutton)
  Phalse Bottom Open Area ("Dan Listermann, Cinci OH")
  HBD (ROTH.TER)
  Competition rules online; deadline extended| (uswlsrap)
  American Lager cont..... ("William D. Knudson")
  Saison Dupont yeast (WILLIAM GIFFIN)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 10:49:06 PST
From: krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Airlock Contents

Thanks for the public and private info on air lock contents.
     
The summary recommendations are:
     
1.  Sanitize the airlock with bleach/iodophor prior to using 
boiled/cooled water or vodka/everclear for contents.
     
2.  Keep the airlock out of the sunlight (direct or indirect).  
I always slipped a paper shopping bag over my carboy (paper bag 
upside down, 3" hole cut in the bottom, perfect fit!) to cover 
the wort, leaving the airlock exposed to watch the bubbles.  I 
figured, "beer's covered, everything's OK."  I'll have to make a 
procedural change here.
     
3.  Be concerned with suck-back.  Use contents which won't 
destroy or alter the taste of your beer (i.e., don't use bleach 
water, do use a tasteless/odorless/drinkable alcohol, do use 
cleaned water, ...).
     
Thanks again!   Ken Koupal


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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 11:05:47 -0800
From: bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: mash/lauter tun scorching

Don Put <dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu> commented on problems
with scorching of the wort under his false bottom if he tried to use
the same vessel for both mashing and lautering.

What I and some members of my club do is use a manifold instead
of a false bottom in a Sankey keg.  I have a (approx) 8" copper ring
which sits on the bottom of the keg and has many small slits cut in
the bottom.  I have such a pony keg for my mash/lauter tun and
a similar 1/2 barrel keg for the boiling kettle.  As I heat the mash,
I just have to stir a lot (PITA, but I'll get a motorized stirrer one
day).  Works great.

According to the (John Palmer's ?) Brewing Techniques article
recently, the manifold requies a slower sparge than the false
bottom would, but it is a small price to pay.

                                                - Bryan
                                                  bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu


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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 18:20:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Sascha Kaplan <kaplan at panther.middlebury.edu>
Subject: Bubbles

I bottled my first batch ever of homebrew (Dogbolter strong ale) nine
days ago and I'm a little worried.  I tried a bottle last night and the 
beer was flat.  It also has a really dark color...like a Guiness.
Should I just wait longer?  I followed the directions to the letter. I added 
one teaspoon of priming sugar per pint as Dogbolter recommended.  Also, 
my OG was 1.064 and my FG was 1.020.  Any ideas?
Also, on a different note, how do I grow a yeast culture?  Does it matter 
how much yeast you put in the wort?  Is the post-fermentation yeast 
shot?  And once grown, how do I store it.
Thanks,
Sascha

email to Kaplan at midd-unix.Middlebury.edu

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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 15:22:22 -0800
From: David Pike <davep at cirrus.com>
Subject: RE:Wanna learn about yeast?

Then check out:

http://genome-www.stanford.edu/VL-yeast.html

Dave 


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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 18:42:22 -0500
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: Schneider Weisse yeast



Thanx to the surprising number of HBD readers who responded
privately to my question about Schneider Weisse.  The concensus
seems to be that the yeast in the bottle is not lager yeast added
at bottling time for bottle conditioning, but is rather the yeast
used to ferment the beer.  The starter I made from the dregs of
one bottle seems to be a top fermenting yeast, which is consistent
with what I've been told (i.e. this is not a lager yeast).

Rolland Everitt
af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov

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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 14:28:20 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: secondaries

Mitch writes about the pros and cons of using secondaries.  If you use
a plastic primary and only have one, then Mitch has some good points.
However, given a few other variables, there can be some other considerations
to be err... umm... considered.

>At any rate, as far as I can tell, the cons of secondary 
>fermentation are as follows: 
>1) Infection
>2) Spilling beer on the floor

Correct, but other cons include:

3) risk of oxidation,
4) the need to use (and dump down the drain) even more sanitizer, and
5) extra work.

>whilst the pros are:
>1) Keeping the beer from sitting on the bottom-dwelling crud (is that a 
>technical term?) for too long

Correct.  If you want to impress your friends, you can call it break
or trub (pronouned TROOB) and dead/dormant yeast.

>2) Freeing up the primary for another batch (or to use as a priming vessel)

What if you use glass primaries?  You're assuming that everyone is using
a plastic primary.  Since I use glass primaries and have 14 of them, this
is not a factor for me.

>3) Ease of dry hopping

I'm afraid I have to disagree.  It is no easier to dryhop in the secondary
than in the primary.  In fact, if you use a plastic pail for a primary,
it is easier to get the hops in than into a carboy.

>4) Glass carboy allows one to see the beer (and check for clarity, etc)

Again, use a glass primary from the start and see the excitement of the
fermentation too!

>5) Aeration

Yes, if that's what you want.  For most styles and for most yeasts, aeration
during racking is not a good idea.  If done during fermentation, it will
increase diacetyl levels in the finished beer.  If done post fermentation,
it will increase the levels of aldehydes which are unpleasant tasting/smelling.

Other pros include:

6) If you are using a plastic primary and a glass secondary, it will allow
you the luxury of waiting longer before you bottle (letting the finished beer
sit in a plastic fermentor for more than a week can result in increased
aldehyde levels), and

7) It allows you to bottom crop (harvest) yeast on a batch that you want
to dryhop.

Personally, I use glass primaries (usually 6-gallon ones for 5-gallon batches
or two 5 gallon ones for 8 gallon batches) and only use secondaries if I'm
doing a lager or a fruit beer (where the beer will sit on the trub and dead
yeast a little longer than I would like) or if I want to bottom crop yeast
from a beer that will be dryhopped.

To answer another poster's question, I use plain water in my airlocks.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:40:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael A Yehle <r3may at dax.cc.uakron.edu>
Subject: Pete's Wicked Bottles


Pete's Wicked Bottles...  Yes, in a catalog in the last 6pk I bought 
there were 22oz bottles for  $12.95 for 12 I believe.(I don't have the 
Cat. in front of me).

Would anybody with experience with Cider please drop a line with 
recipies, hints etc. I don't have anything current ( the last was a 
wine-art book inherited fm. my Father circa 1970 )  Private email is fine.

	Thanks,

        Mike Y.
        r3may at dax.cc.uakron.edu




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Date: 01 Nov 95 07:03:37 EST
From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:   clogged airlocks

In #1872, Eugene Sonn <sonn at oswego.Oswego.EDU> writes:

>        Has anyone ever had a 3-piece airlock clog? 

Sure - it filled up with kraeusen  sticky stuff!

> I  switched over
>to  the three-piece  plastic air  lock after getting  sick of uncloging
>the single piece  s-shaped  ones.  But  last  night  my  three  piece
>air-lock clogged  while I  was asleep and the top blew off of my  plastic
>fermenter. 
>Fortunately, not a  big mess, but  now  I'm having trouble
>relaxing and not worrying.   Is  this  batch of Alt beer doomed?

probably not.  put the lid back on and keep going.

>Should I start  using  a blow-off tube  instead?   This hasn't been
>necessary in  my four  years  of  brewing.

With your more active ferments, try starting out with a blowoff tube.  
Switch over to the airlock when the fermentation activity begins to subside.


"Reeb!"   Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
                      timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)
            74247.551 at compuserve.com (weekends)



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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 08:49 EST
From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: Update- concrete roller mill

Update on the homemade concrete roller malt mill I previously posted:

The first version had a single concrete roller (cast with quickset concrete
(no gravel) in a 4" PVC pipe cap) and flat steel plate.

I put 5# of English mild ale 2 row malt and 1/2# of crystal malt through it
this weekend. The only problem I had was that the surface of the concrete
roller glazed over with something from the malt.  When it glazed over, it
wouldn't pull the grain thru.  I ended up periodically applying a wire brush
to the roller as I turned it.  Judging by the color of the dust from the
milling and the pH of the mash, I don't think I got much, if any, concrete
in the malt.  No big problem, just a nuisance.  

I recalled an old post to HBD which stated that large rollers don't require
texturing so, I casted a 7" one using a plastic bucket for a mold.  It also
glazed over also so I added texturing with a cold chisel- 1/16" deep grooves
every 1/2" or so.  It works crushes well; however, it takes (a guess) 7-10
ft-lbs to turn it.  The concrete takes a groove better if done within a day
of casting.  

IF you're going to make one of these, use a 4" or smaller roller and texture
the roller.

The next experiment will be to combine both rollers into one mill.
C.D. Pritchard    cdp at chattanooga.net


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Date: 01 Nov 95 07:29:12 EST
From: Al Stevens <72704.743 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Wort Storage


In HB1866 mikey asks about storing wort for later use.

I know of a micro-brewery doing just this. They make a variety of worts and
store them in kegs. They make custom brews for pubs as "in-house" brands. I was
told that the setup was "just like a paint shop" , a particular recipe has so
much of this, some of that and a bit of the other etc.

If I was to try this, I would strain hot wort into a sanitized and purged (co2)
corny keg, add 20lb of pressure, and put into a cold environment. The hot wort
should be sterilized, and the high pressure would compensate for the effect of
cooling. Of course I haven't actually tried this...

Let me know how it works out.

Al Stevens 72704.743 at compuserve.com


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Date: 01 Nov 95 07:29:09 EST
From: Al Stevens <72704.743 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Propane indoors

In HB1867 Bruce Taber  asks about using propane burners indoors.
 
 Look at restaurant supply stores, this is done all the time with only minor
 venting.
 I don't know it the outdoor barbeque is "clean" enough for use indoors, I am
 trying to find somthing to use as well. All I have found is commercial
 "stock-pot" burners, but they are expensive.
 
 If anyone knows of a burner that is clean, effective and cheap, I would really
 like to know about it.
  
 Al Stevens
 



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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 95 07:02:04 CDT
From: SCHWAB_BRYAN at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Diaphragms.. Thanks

     
     Just to let those of you who have attempted to assist me in my 
     situation with the "Hissing Regulator"  Thank-You for your input and 
     suggestions  ( To many to post, I have personally tried to answer each 
     one of you but if I missed anyone, Thank-You) 
     
     What I did was take it over to my local Dive Shop yesterday, and he 
     will take care of it for me and I'll let you know what the cause was 
     when I get it back.
     
     Now here is another for you all;
     
     I have a "Sankey" A/B keg.  Got the retaining ring off with no real 
     problems.  Cleaned the keg. Now I want to reassemble, and you guessed 
     it . The Retaining ring is one big hassel.. I have used Pliers, and 
     Screwdrivres to assist in getting that booger back on but no luck.  
     Just can't seem to reseat down far enuff the center assembly to expose 
     the retaining ring groove.
     Got any tried proven methods which I can use.  If I can't get it on, I 
     could alway cut the top and use it as a boiler ( it is only 7.75 
     gal)which is what I originally intented to do with it, but the idea of 
     two kegs at my disposal sounds even better :)
     
     Bryan


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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 06:56:07 -0600
From: blacksab at siu.edu (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: pH testing

Tim Fields asks about pH paper. What we all need is narrow range pH papers.
Hydrion(tm) makes a paper in the range of 4.5-6.0 (or something like that).
The problem is that the VAST MAJORITY OF HOMEBREW SHOPS (yes, I was yelling)
don't carry them, instead they carry this useless crap that doesn't work. 

There is another pH strip out there that looks extremely promising--Color
pHast. It's a fairly narrow range (don't remember off hand) and plastic so
it can be breifly rinsed after dipping in a dark wort, for example. Haven't
used it, but am intending to order it eventually. Brewer's Resource has it
in their catalog.
Anyone have any experience with Color pHast?

Appologies for the following rant--Why is it that in the Chicagoland area I
can't find a decent selection of narrow range pH paper? NONE of the homebrew
shops carry it, and few seem interesed in carrying it. Most of them don't
even understand the CONCEPT of a mash. Their market is the extract, nay the
kit brewer because that's where the markup is. There's no money in carrying
the equipment required for SERIOUS brewing. And Fisher Scientific won't sell
it to me either. Something about federal regulations (read war on drugs).
Get this, they tell me that they can't sell me sterile water. STERILE WATER.
Fer god's sake, I can buy a * at $%&$! AK-47, but I can't buy a pint of sterile
water (or a roll of narrow range pH paper)? Argggg...

Y'all have a nice day, I know I will (I'm seeing GWAR tonight),

Harlan
 


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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 08:54:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Russ Kruska <R.KRUSKA at CGNET.COM>
Subject: RE: WYeast 2178


Hello from East Africa !!  Does anyone out there have any
experience with WYeast no. 2178 Lager Blend ??  I recently
fermented 11 gallons of brown ale with it at 63 degrees F
because I had no ale yeast available.  The sulfery smell from
my 2 fermenters was enough to fill the whole room with the
worst stench.  The yeast FAQ on the net states:

"final note: some yeast, especially lager yeast during lagering, can
produce a  rotten egg  smell.  This is the result of hydrogen sulfide
production.  Although the scent of this bubbling out of the air-lock is
enough to make the strongest homebrewmeister blanch, fear not! The good news
is that this will usually pass, leaving the beer unaffected.  Relax, etc."

I was real happy when I read this, and the odor/taste did disipate *SOME*
with age, but it is still there and to me, very objectionable.  I even
bubbled CO2 through both my kegs to help scrub it out.  Anyone else
have this experience ??  Lucky for me at a recent party about 70% of
the people said they liked it and we got rid of one keg !!!


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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:00:15 -0500
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: boilers

>
>Q1.  Could I use a 1500W element and achieve a boil of 5 gal. ? My dryer
>is upstairs and I don't feel like (read 'lazy') wiring one in downstairs. 
> The
>1500W elements are only 120V.  Maybe I could use two of the 1500W
>ones and plug them into different circuits.
>
>Q2.  If I put a false bottom in a keg and used an electric element located
>below the false bottom so as to avoid burning the grains, could I mash in
>it also?  I would mash, drain the runnings, sparge, scoop out most of the
>spent grain, lift out the false bottom ( a wire handle would be installed),
>rinse, then pour the wort back in to boil.  Any suggestions?
>
Bruce,
   As to Q1: 1500W might work but take a long time, also probably not a very
roiling boil.  I can't think of a reason not to use 2 elements, but I am sure
there is one ;). I am currently using 4500W low watt density element it
 takes 12 gal. of cold tap water to boil in about 25 min. BTW you can use a
HDP (plastic) bucket for this, I did for a year or so.
   Somebody will, no doubt, give dire warnings of caramelization.  This will
come from one of the more anal types who would never try anything different
because they sat around thinking too much about what could happen in the most
severe scenario. (oops, a rant) Yes, the beer may be a bit darker than
expected, but My beers have always been that way ( I don't use rice).  No,
your hops will not burn.
   I suggest using a low watt density element and placing it as close to the
bottom of the vessel as you can, this will give a better flow of hot/cool and
minimize scorching.  If you have the oppurtunity to observe a heater element
in clear water you will notice a barrier layer of gas bubbles around it.
   Be  _incredibly_  careful not to have power applied when the element is
dry.  A one inch conduit nut will secure the element on the inside.  
   As to Q2:  tried that, didn't work very well.  However was a step in
re-inventing RIMS, before I found out that had already been done.
   If you have an open slot in you fuse box wiring a 240 line shouldn't take
more than a few minutes to install (20 or so).

Don
DONBREW at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:05:31 -0400
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Wyeast 2112 for a lager?

Wyeast 2112 is allegedly the Anchor Steam yeast, and I'm presently using it
to ferment a "steam" type beer at 60F. For my next batch I would like to
brew a lager (perhaps a pilsner or a bock); it would be convenient to
repitch the yeast sediment from the steam beer for this lager. Has anyone
used 2112 for a normal 48F lager fermentation? What are its
fermentation/flavor characteristics at this temperature?

Steve Zabarnick
Dayton, OH (home of the Bosnian peace talks)



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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:08:38 -0600
From: Danny Mastre <dmastre at bcbsnd.com>
Subject: Bruheat


I have seen a Mash/Tun-Boiler called a Bruheat.  Was wondering if anyone
has used this or seen it used before.  It looked kind of interesting.
                tia danny

reply to :  dmastre at bcbsnd.com
Danny Mastre  dmastre at bcbsnd.com
Blue Cross Blue Shield of ND
701-277-2436


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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 9:02:56 GMT (Original EST)
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
Subject: Racking off trub/orphaned yeast

	On Friday October 27, 1995, Jim Busch posted the following about 
racking off trub *after* the yeast had been pitched:	

>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:09:20 -0400 (EDT) 
>From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> 
>Subject: Racking

>Scott asks:

<<Sluggish fermentation due to 158 deg mash or premature racking?

>The problem is that you racked and left behind in the first vessal the bulk 
>of the pitched yeast.  This is one of the main reasons I never suggest to 
>brewers that they rack off the cold trub.              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Jim Busch busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

==========================================================

	I am confused. (a not uncommon state for me when it comes to brewing.)

	My procedure, after cooling the wort in an ice bath, is to pour it into 
a five gallon carboy and float the carboy in a large bucket filled with ice 
water.  This always results in a good cold break within two hours.  Because I 
am concerned about leaving the yeast in the carboy with the trub, I usually 
pitch half of a yeast starter when I pour the wort into the carboy for further 
cooling, and the other half after I rack the wort off the trub.  

	However, I have also heard that it is best to pitch the yeast 
*immediately* into the cooled wort.  The point being that the yeast that are 
actively fermenting are in suspension, evenly distributed throughout the liquid-
- --they are not really at the top or bottom of the fermenter.  When you rack, 
they should get carried along with the liquid as it is transferred.  Moreover, 
anything that's settled on the bottom of the fermenter isn't really doing much 
good anyway.              

	Does anyone have any data as to which method is preferable?  It would 
certainly be easier to pitch *all* of the yeast before racking off the trub.  
(less risk of infection, too).  However, if the bulk of that yeast stays with 
the trub at the bottom of the carboy, you haven't gained much.
           
Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan at fdic.gov
Standard disclaimers apply

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 09:40:21 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Roasting Grains

"John McCafferty" <johnm at giant.IntraNet.com> relates the conflicting
advice about whether or not to let freshly roasted grains age to mellow
their harshness.  I vote for using fresh.

I've roasted in my oven with good success.   I used 14 oz. of 16 minute
roasted "lighter than chocolate" (in a home convection oven at 400F,
equiv. to 425 in a regular oven)  and 2 oz. of "darker than chocolate"
(five minutes on stovetop, see below) in a bock that took Best of Show
two years ago (with Michael Jackson on the BOS panel, who called it
"edible, sensuous" :-)  ).  Of course, this is a long lagered beer, so
any harshness would have aged out, but I haven't noticed it in younger
beers.

I first roasted malt more than fifteen years ago using a stovetop
roaster that was sold as a coffee roaster, but looked a whole lot like a
popcorn popper.  It consists of a steel (originally painted black
outside, but that soon burned off) cylinder about 12" in diameter and 4"
high with a handle like a sauce pan's, with a shallow concave bottom, a
vented lid that snaps on, and a cranked stirrer (the crank exits through
the lid.  (I now have an aluminum popcorn popper that is much taller and
works better for popcorn, but that's another story).

I roast grains on nearly the highest electric element setting until they
are the color I want, often like chocolate malt, sometimes more or less.
This takes anywhere from five to maybe ten minutes.  It generates a fair
amount of smoke (I run the stove vent fan) and generates spousal
annoyance units exactly proportional to the degree of roasting.  When I
have the degree of color I want, I go outside (for smoke control) and
empty to grains on a cookie sheet to cool and halt the roasting.  

This procedure gives me great control over the degree of roasted flavor
and color I get - much better than what is available commercially.  Very
dark roasted grains malt will start to stick together, but it is still
less burnt at this stage than commercial patent malt, which I dislike.
I have always used the grain immediately (although I have saved
leftovers)  and it is like using freshly roasted coffee (which I also
roast in this).  It makes a BIG difference in dark beers like porters
and stouts.  Lots of aromatic roastiness - nice.  I like to use more of
a less roasted grain for the same color (is that clear?)  This gives
more aromatics without the harshness.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu


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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:55:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Cherisse Gardner <cgardner at nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: recipe help



Greetings all!

I am in interested in making a recipe found in Cat's Meow 3 and need 
some advice.  It is Jerry Gaiser's Indian Summer Gingered Ale:

	 6 lbs. dry light malt extract
	 1 lb. crystal malt
	 3 oz. fresh ginger  - boil
	.5 oz. Galena pellets (11.4%) - boil
	 1 oz. Hallertaur pellets (4.?%) - finish
	 Wyeast British Ale

Jerry said he'd get back to us on the result but the recipe is from 1991 
and I wasn't around for the follow up posting.  I'm hoping Jerry is still 
around or maybe someone here can fill me in. 

Is this a 5 gal. recipe?  How much malt syrup would I use instead of dry 
extract?  Is the ginger grated?  If anyone else has tried it or a similar 
recipe, how did this turn out?  Any pointers or insights granted of hindsight?  

Thanks in advance!
______________________________________________________________________________
"What's so funny about peace, love, 		Cherisse Gardner
and understanding?"				Instructional Designer
 - Elvis Costello - 		 		Univ. of MD Univ. College
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------




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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 09:45:11 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Airlock blowoff and Trappist Gypsum.


> From: Eugene Sonn <sonn at oswego.Oswego.EDU>
> Subject: A  curiosity...

> 	Has anyone ever had a 3-piece airlock clog? ...
> Should I start  using  a blow-off tube  instead?  

You should either use a blowoff or a larger carboy or a smaller batch size.

>  This hasn't been necessary in  my four  years  of  brewing.

It sounds like it has.  Having wort get into your airlock is a very bad 
thing.  Fresh water doesn't tend to get infected, but sticky goopy wort
going through there will.  If you have kreuzen leaving your carboy, you 
should not have it exit via an airlock.  That is not good.

Al writes :

> DO NOT USE GYPSUM TO TRY TO ACIDIFY SPARGE
> WATER.  ...  If you want to use gypsum to keep the
> pH of the runnings low, you can do that...

Okay.  Will adding gypsum to the sparge water help keep tannin extraction 
down?  That's my main concern with sparge pH.

Al write about my "Biere de Garde is a cross between a Trappist Ale and a
Republican presidential canditate" 

> ... how can anything taste like a Trappist ... there is little
> common to these beers other than high-ish carbonation ;^).  The "Trappist"
> in Trappist Ales refers to their *source* not their style.

I think they have a lot more in common than you're meriting them.  They all
have high-ish carbonation, yeah.  In general, they tend to be a bit stronger
than most other beers, and they're all made with Belgian malts.  I can taste 
a big difference if a homebrew uses DWC Pilsner versus other kinds of malts,
maybe I'm more sensitive.  There are other flavor characteristics I consider
them to have in common.  Sure, there is an incredibly wide variety of beers 
under that rubric.  In fact, one could argue for considering Bieres de Garde
in that category.  (They were originally brewed by Trappist monks according 
to the label on one I drank recently, but who trust beer labels these days.)

 -R

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 09:56 CST
From: BrianE at anesthesia-po.anesth.uiowa.edu
Subject: Scientific Suppliers

For hard core scientific supplies, try Cole-Parmer 
(1-800-323-4340). They have about anything you 
could want including filters, tubing, pumps, 
glassware, etc, etc. (they
even have a fermentation section).
They sell to the public and have a 1800
page catalogue of their products.  They're 
usually very helpful, and are used to 
dealing with scientists who ask a lot
of questions about the products.  
Be aware, though that "scientific"
can also be translated as 
"expensive".  For less hard core suppily,
try Edmund Scientific (609-547-8880).  
As usual, I have no connection with
either company, etc.

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:40:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Trub/Racking

I wrote:

>This is one of the main reasons I never suggest to 
>brewers that they rack off the cold trub.

I shouldnt be so quick to make such generalized statements without 
more content, easy to be misunderstood.

Racking off the cold trub is something I dont think brewers should
do until they get to be advanced and accomplished brewers, so that
they have mastered proper pitching rates and general sanitation.  Early
brewers have enough of a problem making beer to deal with the settle and
rack off trub issues.  Also, trub seperation is one of the areas that
will have minimal impact on most homebrewed beers, certainly big aggressive
ales (hoppy or alcoholic or loaded with dark malts).  A bigger area to
be concerned with is yeast; how clean it is, how much air is in solution
and how much yeast is pitched.  All of these factors will be of much 
greater influence than cold trub.

<However, I have also heard that it is best to pitch the yeast 
<*immediately* into the cooled wort.

This is done to acclerate the process, its a time race between hopefully
a very few bacteria and a awful lot of yeast.  Yeast has to respire, then
it will begin fermenting, at which time there will be no oxygen left and
the pH will drop with alcohol production resulting in a hostile environment
for bacteria.

<The point being that the yeast that are 
<actively fermenting are in suspension, evenly distributed throughout the 
<liquid --they are not really at the top or bottom of the fermenter

Not really.  As they respire, a lot of cells will be fairly stationary on 
the bottom.  This is especially true if you allowed the yeast starter to 
fully ferment and decanted off the liquid and only pitched the yeast biomass.
Its not until they actively ferment, after respiration that they will be
uniformly in suspension.  This is how you can leave behind lots of cells with
the trub.

Brew on....

Jim Busch
Colesville, Md
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

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Date:          Tue, 31 Oct 1995 09:34:09 +0000
From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net>
Subject:       Wyeast #1056 question

Am I the only one who has called Wyeast directly about problems with
Wyeast #1056????

If everyone who has complained here, and in HBD about it talks to them
directly, MAYBE they might admit a problem??

Frustrated (after waiting two days on an infected starter before going
to the British stratin)

Later,


Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm

- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity of a prince but by Bacchus,
 it is true that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- -----------------------------------------------

Later,

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 11:02 CST
From: tfwmsi at mcs.com (Tim Wauters)
Subject: Using oatmeal in a partial mash

In HBD #1872, James Thompson asks about using oatmeal in a partial mash.
I've had good results using steel cut oats in partial mashes. They are available
at health food stores and the like. They can also be found labled as Irish
oatmeal
(allthough at a much higher price!)  Simply cook the oats to gelatinize, add to
your mash and follow your regular mashing regimen. I usually add 1/2 to 1lb. of
oats to 3-4 lbs. of malt and have never encountered a stuck runoff or any other
problems.  I've also had no problems when adding rolled oats (no gelatinization
needed) directly to the mash (using the same amount of malt in mash as above)
Hope that this helps. 



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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 12:45:45 EST
From: usd2nz86 at ibmmail.com
Subject: NO SUBJECT


FROM THE DESK OF  William A. Griesmyer__SCRVM2(BGRIESM)
2205 Grand Ave. Parkway__Austin TX 78728__Siemens Rolm - Austin
**********   RAS Engineering  *********
Subject:


I recently send for infomation on the Samuel Adams World Homebrew Contest.
I received a response that did not include the even numbered pages.  Does
anyone have the address and phone number for the contest.  I would like to send
my bottle in, but don't know where to send it thanks to genius that forgot
to use 2-sided copying.

REGARDS,  Bill Griesmyer
Have A Great Day        InterNet USD2NZ86 at IBMmail.com
(512)990-6057, Fax X6342, RNET 990, LDN 954, Mailstop A205
**** Siemens Rolm Internal Use Only Unless Otherwise Noted ****

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 12:22 CST
From: BrianE at anesthesia-po.anesth.uiowa.edu
Subject: Gas Piping

In HBD 1872, Mike wrote about plumbing burners:

> The main reason for using copper or cast iron pipe

>is for safety. 

I had always been told that using copper or galvanized
pipe for natural gas piping was a no-no.  I seem to 
recall that copper or zinc will react with 
the mercaptins and form scale, which might 
flake off and clog the burner.  It's OK to use brass
or black iron pipe for natural gas.  I don't know 
if this also applies to propane.

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 13:13:58 -0600
From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen)
Subject: EasyMasher usage

I know Jack will appear on this post, but can any one else give me their 
experiences with the EasyMasher setup used in a converted Sanke Keg.

Do you need a larger version or will the standard size work just as well.

=> Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org>
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL.  Also on HomeBrew University (708) 970-9778
"Spice is the Varity of Life"
________________________________________________________________________


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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:27:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Airlock solution

Here is my take on filling airlocks:
Criteria for the solution:
1--Should be acceptable in your beer since some may get sucked/sloshed in.
2--Should hinder the growth of bugs since you don't want this near your beer.
3--Needn't be an active sanitizer since you can't sanitize a gas bubbling
through a liquid
4--Nice if it's cheap/readily available.

Chlorine and iodophor don't meet 1.  Vodka only meets 2 until the EtOH has
been scrubbed out by the bubbling.  Boiled water doesn't meet 2 very well.
What I use is saturated salt.  This meets all these criteria.  Put about
a teaspoon in the airlock, then add water.  If you don't see any salt
sitting on the bottom an hour later, you didn't add enough.

Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/beerstuff/beerpage.html

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Date: 1 Nov 1995 14:33:14 -0600
From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode at sdrc.com>
Subject: Yeast, Neck rings, and the 

My local homebrew shop proprietor steers me away from Wyeast to Yeastlab
because, he claims, the Yeastlab is more predictable in the sense that you
don't always know how long it will take the smack bag to be ready, whereas you
can always count on the Yeastlab to be ready in 48 hours. (OK, I usually wait
only 24 anyway.)  

Nonetheless, both here and in rec.crafts.brewing, Wyeast is by far more
popular.  I have been using the Yeastlab A04 for pale ales with excellent
results.  Does anyone here have any comment on the relative quality of the two
companies, and the reasons for the seeming greater popularity of Wyeast?

Speaking of yeast, I am unclear as to how best grow the itsy bitsy teeny weeny
bit of yeast in the bottom of Sierra Nevada bottles into a thriving
starter...anyone wishing to email me an algorithm or point me to a reference
will be thanked profusely.

I have read with great interest the thread on neckrings in bottles being
caused by DME.  I have experienced this and thought I had an infection.  Do
you live with the rings, or do you (I can hardly believe this) use corn sugar?

I have a Weber Genesis grill, the three burner kind.  Just having started in
all grain, and having taken up all Sunday afternoon of my wife's dinner prep
time trying to boil >5 gallons of wort, I am curious as to whether I could do
it outside instead on this grill.  Anyone tried this?  

Thanks in advance!

Craig


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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 14:38 EST
From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_fdgv-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel at mcimail.com>
Subject: Re: Airlock Fluid




Text item: Text_1

dludwig at ameritel.net wrote:

>Ken Koupal asked about what to put in your airlock. Use clorox at around 1/4
>cup to 5 gal (ala papazian). If you sanitize with this, you should have
>plenty around.

My $.02: Don't do it. At the peril of resurrecting the "suck-back" thread, your
risk here is "what if" the airlock contents are drawn into the primary during
the lag phase as temperatures within the primary stabilize (ie. cool). There's
probably not enough chlorine to kill all the yeast, but the taste (yuk) is sure
to suffer. I use cheap vodka in the primary and good old tap water in the
secondary (hey, ya gotta draw the line somewhere). The risk of suck-back in the
secondary is minimal as the thermal energy has stabilized, and contamination is
unlikely due to the alcohol concentration.

  -----  __o    Bob
 -----  \<,     Fruit Fly Brewhaus
- ----- ( )/ ( )
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob


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Date: 01 Nov 95 14:44:59 EST
From: "Dan Listermann, Cinci OH" <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Phalse Bottom Open Area

Dion Hollenbeck described his Phalse Bottom as having 7/64 holes on staggered
11/32 centers.  ( They were supposed to be 1/8 holes on 3/8 staggered centers)
I just wanted to note that we changed the material for that product about three
years ago to 3/32 dia. holes on 3/16 staggered centers.  This gives an open area
of about 23%.

Dan Listermann


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Date: 01 Nov 95 11:21 PDT
From: ROTH.TER at SEATTLE.VA.GOV
Subject: HBD

 have not been getting HBD for a couple weeks, what gives??  We had some IDCU 
gateways problems for a week or so, but they are straightened out now. Thanks 
for looking into this.

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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 14:11:43 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Competition rules online; deadline extended|


We welcome homebrewers throughout North America to enter their fine
homebrewed beers, meads, and ciders in the 10th Annual November Classic,
sponsored by the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild
of Madison, Wisconsin, the Craft Beer Capital of the Midwest|

cThe competition is Sunday, November 12, at the Great Dane Pub and Brewing
Company in downtown Madison.  BJCP judges (and other experienced judges)
are encouraged to join us for the event|!

Because of a delay in getting our newsletter from the printer and an
additional intervening weekend before mailing, the entry forms for the
Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild Tenth Annual November Classic
BJCP-recognised homebrew competition did not go out as soon as we
would have liked.

Therefore, we are:

 1) making the rules available online
 2) extending the entry deadline to November 8

Clubs who receive our newsletter and individuals who requested competition
information should have received rules and forms in the mail early last week,
but here is an opportunity for others to get the rules. (CLUBS: If you
received our newsletter, please share the competition insert containing
rules and entry form with interested brewers|)


INSTRUCTIONS:

Send the message, "get november_classic" (without quotes), no subject line
required, to: madbrew-request@ aviion.persoft.com

You will receive a copy of the rules (and a judge registration form).
The snailmail package included our recipe/entry form, but you may use
any standard (AHA or other) competition recipe/entry form as long as you
include all of the relevant information noted in the rules.

For questions or more information, send an email request to:
   uswlsrap at ibmmail.com.

You may also send a snailmail request to:
   MHTG / PO Box 1365 / Madison, WI   53701-1365.

Additional notes:
  ---If you are able to meet the original deadline, you may proceed as
  specified in the original rules.
  ---Suggestion for those who plan to take advantage of the extended
  deadline: If you have the rules and know which beers you intend to enter,
  but need more time to get them packed and shipped, please send the entry
  form/fees in advance separately (consistent with the rules specified for






  "preregistration" except that you do not need to affix blank adhesive labels
  to shipped bottles--just be sure to attach the appropriate bottle-ID forms
  to assure proper identification of entries.)  You do not HAVE to send the
  entry forms in advance, but if you do so, it allows us to pre-assign
  entry numbers and anticipate the arrival of your bottles.  It also assures
  your place in the competition if the bottles happen to arrive a day or
  two later than the extended Wednesday deadline.

Don't miss this opportunity to have your fine homebrews evaluated by our
experienced judges.  If you need additional incentives (other than the judges'
comments, the possibility of winning handsome ribbons, and gaining the respect
and admiration of your peers), we will be awarding a number of prizes of
brewing supplies to winners in all competition categories.

A new feature of this year's competition will be the Great Dane Challenge,
an opportunity for the winner to brew the winning beer to be served at the
pub|

NGHAB|

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino    uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Madison

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Date: 01 Nov 95 15:21:49 EST
From: "William D. Knudson" <71764.203 at compuserve.com>
Subject: American Lager cont.....

Al Kozonas writes about being irritated by the big three, and I don't think he
and I differ on much.  One point however is that we tend to regard things from
afar as better without any sense for how beer drinker there may feel about it.
Remember the Coors craze out east in the 70's?  I grew up in Northern
California, there was actually a Stroh's craze prior to its distribution there.

Have the big three single handedly spoiled the tastes of American beer drinkers?
I doubt that.  They sell what sells best.   Beer tastes are not static, they
have been changing for hundreds of years.

How many of you have been to Octoberfest in Munich?  Can you attest to any great
difference to the beers served by Spaten, Augustiner, Hacker, Lowenbrau or
Paulaner?  Do these beers resemble what we would catagorize as Marzen beer ?
(sorry - all umlauts omitted) No!  Did the big three ruin their tastes too?

My experience is that the *masses* in Europe and US drink and prefer pale lager
(granted ours is paler).  We are the exception to the rule.  Fortunately, living
in Colorado, I tell you that the days of the limited choice of those white
fluffy sandwiches seem to be over here.  The trend for now is moving in *our*
direction, but I don't expect AB to sell more Elk Mtn over Bud ever.  I'm just
not that optimistic.

I myself can't seem to get rid of the mindset that the big three just don't get
it.  But they get it: they please a huge crowd - one that has never heard of
HBD!

Now for an anti 1056 flame!  (just kidding)

Tschuss!

Bill

Ich kann besser Deutsch, wenn ich etwas Bier getrunken habe!


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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 1995 17:46:12 -0600
From: WILLIAM GIFFIN <billgiffin at beta.delphi.com>
Subject: Saison Dupont yeast

Top of the morning to ye all,

>Has anyone cultured yeast from Saison Dupont?  Is the yeast the same as that 
>used for fermentation ?  How did the beer come out?  How about Witkap Pater? 
>Anyone tried this btw?  It's described as Belgian Single, rarely available in 
>the US, by one of the importers.  I liked it quite a bit.  Sorry I do not have 
>any tasting notes, it was a while ago.

One of my friends in the Maine Ale and Lager Tasters (MALT) cultureed the
yeast from a bottle of Saison Dupont and we used the yeast with very good
results.  To the best of  my knowledge the bottling yeast is the same as the
fermintation yeast and will give a beer brewed with that yeast the same
flavor profile as Saison Dupont.
May the road rise to meet you.

Bill


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1874, 11/03/95