HOMEBREW Digest #1875 Sat 04 November 1995
Digest #1874
Digest #1876
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Mail order scientific supplies (SUMMARY) ("Michael A. Owings")
Bulging cans of Coopers (David Oliver)
Homebrewing in Japan (Chris Pittock)
WYeast 2112 responses (Todd W. Roat)
Electro-boil in the basement (David Deaven)
spelling (Rolland Everitt)
contract brews ("Kevin A. Kutskill")
Airlock Fluid/Sanitizing Bottle Caps (Jeff Hewit)
water quality in Oakland/Berkeley (CA) area (Eric Palmer)
yeast preserving (Andy Walsh)
Re: kettles - scorching hops? (Fredrik Stahl)
Propane vs. Natural Gas (Harlan Bauer)
Re: Building Yeast Volume (Tim Fields)
RE Lager yeast (Tim Fields)
Soluble Proteins (Russ Brodeur)
(U)Gott Problems ("Rich Byrnes")
bleach & environment (Neal Parker)
Gott Spigot Construction ("Houseman, David L TR")
Slant media question ... (TJWILLIA)
re: NA beer (Keith Frank)
Falsies in M/L tuns ("Palmer.John")
Pete's 22 oz. Bottles (Greg Geiger)
New Brewpubs (Todd Anderson)
sierra yeast (Brad Roach)
re:bleach vs iodophor (Tom Fitzpatrick)
Blowoff and skum collection (Mark E. Thompson)
Burnt Crud (RANDY ERICKSON)
Storing Wort for Yeast Starters ("James Hojel")
RE: Starter Bottle Geometry, Can Openers, Volumous Blow-offs (Art McGregor)
Various (Douglas R. Jones)
Gravity of bottled beer / Cardamon / Bleach concentration (Derrick Pohl)
Ragging on Megabrewers (John DeCarlo )
Sanitizing with Bleach (John DeCarlo )
"Old" smack-packs ("Dave Draper")
looking for old BT issue (Jay Weissler)
Re: Bruheat ("ron racine")
oil bath kettle (David Hill)
hot water heaters - bacterial nurseries? (Andy Walsh)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:18:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael A. Owings" <mikey at waste.com>
Subject: Mail order scientific supplies (SUMMARY)
A few days back I posted a question regarding mail order scientific
equipment/gadget/toy supplier contact info. Here is a summary of
the replies I have received:
Company Contact
----------------- --------------
Edmund Scientific (609) 547-3488
American Science & Surplus (708) 982-0870
Fisher Scientific (800) 766-7000
Cole-Parmer (800) 323-4340
* PGC Scientifics (800) 424-3300
HACH (800) 227-4224
The Yeast Culture Kit Company Dan McConnell,
danmcc at umich.edu
* Does not appear to sell to individuals
Thanx to all who responded to my original post. -- mikey
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:12:38 -0800 (PST)
From: David Oliver <dwo at slip.net>
Subject: Bulging cans of Coopers
Hi all
I wanted to thank everybody for all the replys on my extract dillema.
When I feel lazy (I'm a dedicated all-grain brewer/snob) I think I'll go
ahead and slap those cans along with a fair amount of crystal and
chocolate malt into a pot and see what happens. Hey what the hell, its
just sitting there and it won't cost me much.
Thanks again for all the advice,
I'll let you guys know what happens with it
Dave Oliver
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 10:20:15 EST
From: pittock at rsbs-central.anu.edu.au (Chris Pittock)
Subject: Homebrewing in Japan
A fellow brewer who is currently working in Japan sent me this:
>You might be interested to know about homebrewing in Japan. Saw Coopers
>>concentrate on sale over the weekend at A$48 a tin, and it was one of the
>>cheaper brands. Pure malt extract was A$40 a litre as well and bottle tops
>>were all of 25 cents each.
This converts to around US$36.50 and US$30.50!
>Added to all this, I have found out that it is strictly illegal to make
>your own beer with more than 1% alcohol in it! Guess there wont be any
>>Japanese Indian Pale Ales!
Anyone scared?!
Chris Pittock.
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:34:40 -0500
From: troat at one.net (Todd W. Roat)
Subject: WYeast 2112 responses
Thanks for all the rapid responsesabout my woes concerning ferment temp for
WYeast California Common yeast (#2112) Anchor steam attempt. Bottom line of
responses was ferment around 60 degrees (response range: 50-65 degrees).
Interestingly, I had the temp maintained at 50 degrees for 2 days....nothing
happened. I slowly raised to 60 degrees for 1 days....nothing happened. I
then slowly raised to 65 degrees....she took off! I dont know what this
means aside from next time I will try at 65 degrees right off :^) Those
who responded touting success at 55 degrees: whats the trick/magic touch!
Prost to one and all......
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:29:07 -0600
From: David Deaven <deaven at ishmael.ameslab.gov>
Subject: Electro-boil in the basement
I thought I'd chip in my $0.02 about electric boiling. I have a
2200W rangetop element that I bought for $15 from a local appliance
store (used). I installed it into a box made out of 2x4's with angle
irons on top to support the element's metal pan. To control the
current, I wired a heavy-duty relay inside the box, whose coil is
connected to a small phone jack on the outside of the box. The main
power comes from a 220V dryer cord. All of the dangerous 220V stuff
is sealed inside the box during operation, and some aluminum foil
covers the angle irons on top to prevent wort boil-overs from getting
into the box (of course, my wort never boils over anyway :)).
The system is pretty nice, because I can toggle the power myself, or
let some electronics outside the boiler do the temperature control.
What I found was that for boiling (I do a full wort boil on 5-7
gallons) I need about 45 minutes to reach a full boil if I start with
cold tap water (extract recipe). This is longer than a big outdoor
propane burner requires, but it is safe (I think the propane probably
is too, if used with caution) and easy to control. The bottom line
is, though, that 2200W is about the minimum you can get away with and
still have enough power to bring the wort to a good rolling boil. So
the 120V/15A elements are probably not worth the effort (separate
circuits, etc) because you'll just be frustrated with the lack of
heating power. YMMV.
- ---
David Deaven deaven at ishmael.ameslab.gov
A504 Physics tel 515-294-6878
Ames Laboratory fax 515-294-0689
Ames IA 50011
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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:43:54 -0500
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: spelling
This message is not really about beer, although the word beer
will appear twice in this sentence. I am not usually a stickler
for proper spelling, but one frequent error is worth mentioning.
"Frig" is not an app;liance, it is an activity. The word you
want is "fridge". Related words are refrigerator and
refrigerated. :-)
Rolland Everitt
af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov
Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Nov 95 20:57:33 EST
From: "Kevin A. Kutskill" <75233.500 at compuserve.com>
Subject: contract brews
Enlighten me, oh great collective--what does it take to start a contract brew
(besides a good beer)? Just the bare facts--cost, time invested, need of
marketing experience, etc. No need for great details. Just curious, after
a nite of shootin' the breeze with some of my homebrew buddies.
TIA,
Kevin A. Kutskill ("Dr. Rottguts")
Clinton Township, MI
"A homebrew a day keeps the doctor happy"
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:28:49 -0500
From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Airlock Fluid/Sanitizing Bottle Caps
I use 100 proof vodka in my airlocks and for sanitizing bottle
caps. It's not as cheap as bleach, but it can't spoil beer in
case an airlock suffers a suck back. It's easy to use, and
doesn't need rinsing or air drying. BTW, I use iodophor for
most of my other sanitizing jobs because of the ease of not
having to rinse. The only time I use bleach is when I run my
bottles through the dishwasher, and I let it do the rinsing.
Brew on!
Jeff Hewit
Midlothian, Virginia
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 20:28:37 PST
From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: water quality in Oakland/Berkeley (CA) area
In #1872, Novices at piniecki.haas.berkeley.EDU enquired about his local
water quality.
I' m in San Jose so can't comment on East Bay water but suggest you
(anyone) call your
local water company. You may be pleasently surprised with the response. I
called the Santa Clara County Water Dist. and was put through to the lab
where a chemist spent 20 minutes on the phone with me. He then gave me the
name and number of a chemist for San Jose Water who is the actual
distributor (they buy from the county) so I could find out the percentage
of ground water vs. surface water my particular neighborhood is getting.
This naturally has an impact on hardness levels. My water tastes great with
no hint of clorine. I do boil everything, however, just to be safe.
If I had to guess, Oakland/Berkeley probably has excellent water from a
purity standpoint and probably not as hard as the South Bay which is
predominantly ground water (from aquafiers).
It may come from the hetch-hetchy (sp?) reservoir in the Sierra's which is
where SF get's their water. This is run-off from the Yosemitie area snow
pack. There are worse places to get your water. Then again, I could be
wrong.
Eric
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:17:51 +1100 (EST)
From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh)
Subject: yeast preserving
Hi.
Sorry about the previous message, I forgot to enter a subject.
Just a note on storing yeast in the fridge. Someone mentioned they had some
trouble with autolysis after washing yeast. I must disagree with the yeast
faq on storing yeast on water in the fridge. In my experience they are not
very happy being stored this way, they much prefer wort or beer. This
provides both nutrients and a more natural osmotic environment.
So try storing in a bottle of wort (but use an airlock!). Even ale yeasts
will work slowly around 5C or so (I have some 3944 bubbling away now at this
temp). It will enable storage for much longer than using water.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:43:39 +0100
From: fredriks at abel.math.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl)
Subject: Re: kettles - scorching hops?
In HBD #1873, Don wrote about his boiler setup. He uses a Sanke keg with
inverted bottom, a manifold connected to the tap and an electric heating
element. I do not know anything about problems with inverting the bottom,
but I have some other questions.
I am planning to do something similar but was afraid that the heating
element would scorch the hops. For this reason I have been thinking of
using a false bottom instead, sitting _above_ the element, to prevent hops
from reaching the element.
Have you had any problems with this, Don? And by the way, what kind of
element are you using? Another problem I am thinking of is how to drill/saw
the holes for the element and the tap and making the seals tight.
Thanks for any help!
/Fredrik Stahl, FredrikS at abel.math.umu.se
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 05:31:08 -0600
From: blacksab at siu.edu (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Propane vs. Natural Gas
I'm sorry, but I simply can't let a half-truth go unchallenged. Although it
is true that Propane is heavier than air and therefore pools on the ground,
so does Natural Gas. Both gasses are heavier than air, and both have the
potential to pool.
Could someone familiar with the relative molecular weights post the
densities of air, propane, and natural gas. Is propane really that much
heavier than natural gas?
The reason the tanks say not to use them indoors is mainly to keep the
manufacturer from getting sued. Just like the warning on ladders not to
stand on the top step which I do all the time, and I've NEVER fallen off a
ladder.
Sorry for all my ranting of late,
Harlan
Return to table of contents
Date: 02 Nov 95 07:30:46 EST
From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Building Yeast Volume
In 1873, phil.brushaber at lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber) writes:
>I've been brewing for about four years, but still have a pretty basic
>question. Can you build yeast volume with successive feedings in a one
>gallon jug.
>
>I am going to brew a batch about a month from now where I want a large
>vloume of yeast. My plan was to pitch up to one gallon, let the starter
>brew out, pour off the spent beer, feed the yeast, etc. until December.
I use a 1 gal apple cider jug to build my starters - works fine for
building up yeast. However, I do not pour off the clear liquid/spent
beer before each addition. I do let each additon pretty much ferment out
before adding the next addition. I only pour off the clear liquid when
ready to pitch. Make sure to aerate each wort addition before adding to
the jug.
"Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)
74247.551 at compuserve.com (weekends)
Return to table of contents
Date: 02 Nov 95 07:30:55 EST
From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com>
Subject: RE Lager yeast
Mike,
>Once it was
>up to 60F, I checked the specific gravity, and pitched 1 package of
>lager Wyeast.
Did you smak it and let it swell first? did you build a starter? I
believe (memory only-havent used lager yeast) that lagers start slower,
and also that one should pitch at higher rates than for ale yeast.
>Now, 36 hours later, I have not seen one bubble work its
>way up through the airlock. Do I need to pitch more Wyeast?
More is always better. Std rule of thumb for ale is to pitch 1 to 10 -
for 5 gal, this translates to the slurry from a 2 qt starter (.5 gal).
In practice, most HBDers I've communicated with say that 1 qt is fine
(mental averaging here - no flames please). For your lager, I would use
the 2 qts - or more.
Also-did you aerate the wort before pitching?
"Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)
74247.551 at compuserve.com (weekends)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 08:56:53 -0500
From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur)
Subject: Soluble Proteins
Q: Does the percentage of soluble protein have an appreciable effect on SG?
I know they strongly affect mouthfeel and head retention, but I am unclear
as to their contribution to the FG.
TIA
TTFN --<- at
Russ Brodeur (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com)
Franklin, MA
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 08:49:43 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rich.byrnes at e-mail.com>
Subject: (U)Gott Problems
In response to David Rinkers Gott Problems....
>1)Should I replace my spigot assembly with something less
>conductive to heat? (What do you other Gott people do?)
I replaced the Gott valve with a standard bottling spigot, had to cut
the outer wall of the gott so the spigot is now a bulkhead fitting
up against the inner wall, sealed with Dow-Dap on the inside for
absolute liquid proof seal. The opening of the spigot on the inside
accepts a ? dia hose (sorry, I'm at work and don't have my notes)
The standard size hose from my Phils Phalse Bottom then snugs inside
this hose (well, the last 2 inches anyways), works great, and comes
out pretty easily for cleaning.
>2)Are there any good ways of insulating the lid? I would be neat
>to spray some foam insulatin in there.
By all means, remove the plastic "bung" from the inside and use the
spray foam, it takes a while to cure in an enclosed space, but it
will eventuall set. Don't worry about the foam oozing out of the
hole, that's natural and can be broken off after it cures. The
insulating effect is tremendous! I had to spray the foam 2 or 3
times, aiming the nozzle in different parts to get complete
coverage, I'm not sure if this is normal or not, but it worked!
>3)How can I monitor the temp inside the cooler w/o opening the lid?
Well, you could buy a good compost thermometer, they usually have an
18" stem, find one that you can calibrate, and CALIBRATE it first.
Then poke a small hole in the lid, dead canter and slide the stem
through the foam and the soft bung on the inside, you can then check
the temps at different levels, mine has a 1.5" dial, easy to read.
Hope this helps!
Rich Byrnes
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
Ignore the next few lines, lord knows I do!!!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.)
Rich.Byrnes at E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 08:29:30 EST
From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker)
Subject: bleach & environment
Russel Mast writes:
>No, Greg, I like bleach okay, but I don't fault those who don't use it. It
>also is supposedly very destructive to the environment. (That should make
>it appeal that much more to certain people, of course...)
I've been using bleach for years now (with at least 3 rinses). One of the
reasons I like it (besides the cost) is that it's a powerful sterilizer
but it's still biodegradable (or so it says on the side of the Javex bottle).
I think it breaks down to very innocuous compounds. If this isn't the case
I'd like to know because an awful lot goes down the drain each time I
brew.
Any Chemical types with a proper explanation?
Neal Parker nparker at lockheed.on.ca
Lockheed Martin Canada
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 09:27:00 EST
From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.Tr.Unisys.com>
Subject: Gott Spigot Construction
Several posts have indicated problems with construction of the Gott
mash/lauter tun.
While not an expert in this, I can relate what I've found to be the quickest
and easiest
construction technique; perhaps not the cheapest.
Buy a plastic spigot from your homebrew store that's used at the bottom of
bottling
buckets. Threaded, plastic nut, red handle and outlet that fits 3/8"
tubing. Also buy a
number 2 rubber stopper. You will need some FDA approved Silicone Caulk
(any
hardware store).
For the false bottom I used the Phils Phalse bottom, but an Easymasher 1/4"
copper
tube and screen will work also.
Remove the Gott (mine was the 10gal) spigot assembly. In order to get the
new plastic
spigot assembly in place, I had to ream out the opening just a little with
my Dremel tool.
The new spigot assembly was put in place and sealed with the FDA Silicone
Caulk prior
to tightning down the nut. This is allowed to cure overnight.
To connect the Phalse Bottom to the spigot on the inside, I got a piece of
1/4" copper tube
about 5" in length and connected this to the Phalse Bottom with a 1/2" piece
of plastic 3/8"
tubing as a more or less permanent assembly. The #2 stopper is then placed
over the
copper tube and this goes into the plastic spigot of the Gott. The same
concept could be
applied to the Easymasher assembly as well.
For sparging, I bought the rotating sparge assembly (Phils?), drilled an
appropriate hole in
the Gott lid and mounted it in place. A thermometer is also permanently in
place via a small
hole about 3" above the spigot so I can read the mash temperture without
taking the lid off.
I've not noticed any appreciable temperture loss during a one hour mash.
Good luck to those that use this; it works for me.
Dave Houseman
Groundhog Brewery
"Without a shadow of a doubt, great beer"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 09:45:25 EST
From: TJWILLIA at VM.OCC.CC.MI.US
Subject: Slant media question ...
Greetings,
Quick question for some of you microbial trained brewers ...
Are there any available lab media formulas (i.e. specifically for
propagating yeast) that I should avoid when making up slants? I have
the opportunity to access a lab resource and personnel to assist my
efforts at yeast farming, but they do not have specific info concerning
brewers yeast strains.
TIA.
Tom Williams
tjwillia at vm.occ.cc.mi.us
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:08:55 -0600
From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: re: NA beer
***** from Bruce DeBolt *****
Eric writes regarding NA beer by the heating method:
>Question --- Has anyone tried this? If so, what's it do to flavor? I
>have trouble thinking this simple process won't totally trash an
>otherwise good (if not great) beer.
Eric - if you can search HBD look for Nov. 1994-Jan. 1995 for a lot of
posts on this topic.
I've tried the heating method and can verify by gas chromatography analysis
that it definitely makes low alcohol beer. You have to reduce the beer
volume significantly, 30% or more, to get below the 0.5% legal definition of
no-alcohol. Regarding flavor - I agree with Al Korzonas who mentioned
losing fruitiness. Some (perhaps all) of the aromatics will be driven off.
BUT - if you just want something better than commercial NA beer I think
this is still a good method. The person I made it for (pregnant at the
time) was very pleased compared to her other options. Heating does affect
the flavor, but I don't think it "totally trashes" it.
There is another technique which avoids these problems but still has a few
of its own. I have the original posts at home but the summary is:
- Pour beer into a PET bottle, attach cap
- Turn upside and place in the freezer for 1-2 days
- Gently open the cap and allow the small amount of liquid to drain
- Attach a Carbonator(R) cap and pressurize with CO2 tank
OR add yeast and priming sugar and bottle (be careful about sanitation)
One precaution - the liquid may gush out when the cap is cracked open.
The author stated that this made excellent flavored beer. The drawbacks
were removal of some hop bitterness and body. The recommended solution was
to use a beer with higher bitterness and body than normal.
I haven't tried it but it sounds like a good technique. By the end of the
year I should have something to report on the alcohol level by this method.
In Al Korzonas' response to Eric:
>I would recommend dryhopping after removing the alcohol to put back
>some kind of aroma.
My limited understanding is that dry hopping is an alcohol extraction
process. If the alcohol is removed or significantly reduced, will this
work? Or is dry hopping not due to alcohol extraction of hop aromatics?
Another option would be to use aromatic hop extract, you could dose each
glass according to preference.
Bruce DeBolt
Lake Jackson, TX
direct e-mail usdowq6c at ibmmail.com
Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Nov 1995 07:57:11 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Falsies in M/L tuns
Spencer noted that the Pico Brewing Systems tun has a gallon of dead space
beneath the false bottom and experiences no scorching problems:
I do tend to believe that the larger volume helps with circulation during
heating but I think the fact that the Pico systems have pumps and forced
recirculation is the big key.
Both Don Put and I have manifolds in our M/L Tuns and we stir the mash during
heating to prevent scorching. I hand stir mine, Don uses his Binford Mashmixer
6000.
I would be willing to draw the conclusion that it is *necessary* to have forced
recirculation in conjunction with a false bottomed M/L tun to prevent scorching
during heating. One idea that I have had (as have others), is to put a central
pipe down thru the grainbed to the false bottom which act like the pipe in a
coffee perculator. Perhaps you would need a floating ball valve in the pipe to
encourage one way flow to the top of the grainbed...
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:50:05 -0500
From: Greg Geiger <geiger at grove.ufl.edu>
Subject: Pete's 22 oz. Bottles
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I thought I read somewhere that Pete's is selling 22oz.
bottles through their (T-shirt) catalog. Has anybody else
heard of this and what is the price, contact number, etc?
Dave Pike
davep at cirrus.com
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!
You can obtain a catalog (flyer) in twelve packs of any of Pete's Wicked =
Brews (I got mine in a twelver of ale). The catalog sells these bottles =
for $3.50 a case(12). S&H is $4.00 for anything up to $10.00, $5.00 for =
anything from 10.01 to $25.00, and so on, so It would be to your =
advantage to buy in bulk.
Item# PG22
you can order them at 1-800-382-7457
Drink one for me.
Greg Geiger
geiger at grove.ufl.edu
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Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 11:50:10 EST
From: Todd Anderson <TRANDER at UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU>
Subject: New Brewpubs
Just a little note to all that Columbia, S.C. seems to be developing into
the brewpub capitol of the southeast. Three brewpubs have opened within the
last month. They are:
1)Hunter-Gatherer Brewpub - small very cozy place that serves English-style
ales and porters. The porter, I found was the best.
2)Columbia Brewing Company - large brewpub and restaurant. They have a
couple of ale and a porter and I think they're working on a weizen. Also
serve large selection of micros in the area.
3)Vista Brewing Company - Haven't been there yey, but it's right around
the corner from Columbia B.C.
Rumor has it another will be opening within a year. Not bad for city of
less than 100,000. More brewpubs than Atlanta or Washington,D.C.
Cheers, Todd Anderson
Grad. Student University of South Carolina
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 09:11:07 PST
From: b_roach at emulex.com (Brad Roach)
Subject: sierra yeast
I have not tried to re-claim the Sierra Nevada yeast, but
when I mentioned the idea to a friend, I was told that the
yeast in the bottle was bottling yeast, and the fermentation
yeast was filtered out prior to bottling.
Brad Roach
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 11:13:49 -0600 (CST)
From: fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick)
Subject: re:bleach vs iodophor
>In HBD #1870, Greg Walz compared iodophor and bleach, and stated:
>>(with Iodaphors you can air-dry without rinsing, but
>>Iodaphor is about six times as expensive as bleach)
>I disagree. If you use 3/4 cup of bleach per 5 gallons, you can make
>about 110 gal. of sanitizer per gallon of bleach (about $3). From many
>homebrew shops, you can buy 1L of iodophor for about $10. Using a
>concentration of 25ppm, you can make about 350 gal. of sanitizer (for
>$10). That seems about equivalent to me.
>Dan Sherman
>San Diego, CA
>dsherman at ucsd.edu
I have to take exception to the above numbers. First, 3/4 cup of bleach
to 5 gal is *way* too much ... about 1/3 cup/5 gal yields about 250ppm
chlorine according to my chlorine papers. I'd say I get at least
50 x 5gal = 250 gallons of chlorine water from a 64oz jug of 79 cent
bleach (on sale, stock up). It doesn't get any cheaper than that.
I use iodophor for my stainless toys. The bottle directions call for
1 oz./5gal for a 25ppm conc. (or was that 12.5? I'm doing this by memory,
always dangerous). This does not translate to 350 gal of sanitizer,
more like 150. But with iodophor, who says that you have to *fill* the
container with solution. I mix only a gallon and just swish the solution
around for a minute or so. Contact time is short enough that I believe
just coating the surfaces suffices. This method really stretches the
iodophor.
I won't argue for either since I use bleach for glass/plastic and iodophor for
stainless.
Tom Fitzpatrick
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Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 9:06:13 PST
From: Mark E. Thompson <markt at hptal04.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Blowoff and skum collection
Full-Name: Mark E. Thompson
Russell Mast wrote:
>
> Blowoff hoses - I prefer to put a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy, and
> collect the evil gunk on the sides where it will stick. I've used a blowoff
> now and then, depending on volume of beer and size of primary. Never really
> noticed a significant pattern of difference in the final products.
One of my most commonly used yeast is the wy1007 german ale. i like it
a lot for english ales and kolsch. the only problem is clearing.
I have fermented it in closed systems only (6.5g glass and keg).
I just got the latest book by Miller and he mentioned that 1007 is
listed as a good flouclator.
He aslo says that they don't tell you that it flouclates into a thick
pancake on the top and if it isn't skimmed it drops back through leaving
lots of particles in suspension. This is exactly my experience.
In this case the 'sick to the sides' method doesn't work.
Now i'm in the market for a sutible vessil for open fermentation.
So i guess my point is that blowoff tube or 6.5 carboy or open fermenter
choice realy depends on the characteristics of the yeast. I think
that if i used a 5 gallon carboy with a blowoff tube with a 5g batch using
1007 to start i would end with about 3 gallons. 1007 gets rather active.
Mark Thompson
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:19:48 -0800
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Burnt Crud
Greetings, All:
After fifty or so batches (extract based) I had a strange experience on
my last batch. A nice black ring of burnt crud (sugars) on the bottom of
my 15 gal keg boiler. Reminiscent of the last time the SO let the water
boil out of a pot of beans -- and that was _my_ fault too somehow, BTW.
Question: How do I get rid of this stuff?
I've tried tsp, dishwasher detergent, softscrub(tm), steel wool, etc. with
no luck. I'd really hate to have to only brew stouts and porters from now
on. ;-)
Randy Erickson
Modesto, California
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 17:51:14 UT
From: "James Hojel" <JTroy at msn.com>
Subject: Storing Wort for Yeast Starters
I have 2 short questions:
1) I'm getting very tiered of paying a couple of bucks every time I want to
make a yeast starter (DME). Question: can I collect some left-over runnings
from my Mash and save it for later use? Maybe freezing it and boiling it
when needed? How long will frozen Wort last; what affects does freezing Wort
have on the quality (chemical structure etc.)? Basically, what is the most
efficient and quality way of saving some Wort for later use?
2) Again, I'm also getting tiered of paying for yeast every time. What book
is the best for learning yeast culturing and where is the cheapest place to
get supplies (inoculation loop, etc.)?
Thanks
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Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 12:59:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: RE: Starter Bottle Geometry, Can Openers, Volumous Blow-offs
Hi Everyone!
I can't offer any comment on HBD discussions on Yeast lot contamination, but
have an observation on my experience with starters. I use about 12-18 ounces
of hopped wort (saved from a previous batch), and used Yeast #1056 saved and
washed also from a previous batch. I have noticed that when the starter is
made in a 1.5 liter Champagne bottle, there is more krausen (a healthier
starter?) then when a 1 gal wine bottle is used (little to no krausen). My
guess is that the low volume of started is affected by the geometry of the
bottle it sits in, similar to the effects of the fermentation tank geometry
mentioned by George Fix in an earlier HBD post.
* * * * * * *
I was wondering if anyone has difficulties opening extract cans with their can
openers. I don't know if its a problem with my can opener, but I usually have
no problems with other cans. The can opener will skip a few places on the
can, which has forced me to use my trusty Swiss Knife to free the lid so I can
pour the extract into the brew pot. I believe that soaking the can in warm
water for 5 minutes (to soften the extract) is the cause. Any comments?
* * * * * * *
My last item is with volumous blowoffs. I have been averaging between 2/3-3/4
gallon of blowoff on each of my past 5 batches. I brew Ales, ferment in 5 gal
carboys, 1" blowoff tubes, use Yeast #1056, basement temperature (69-75
degrees F), and don't rack the wort off the hops or hot/cold break for
fermentation. I never had such large blowoffs with my first 40 batches over
the past 2 years. So what's going on, and what can I do to reduce the volume
of lost beer?
Since I'm not happy about loosing so much potential beer, I've been
experimenting with saving the stuff. After the blowoff finishes, I transfer
the blowoff into 1 gal wine jugs with airlocks, then transfer to secondary 1
gal wine jug, and bottling after a few weeks. I've tried a few of the bottles
so far and haven't yet decided if this is worth the effort. The two I've
tried were a little more bitter and thinner (less body) than the bottled beer
from the batch. I expect to decide to continue this procedure after some more
samples (unless someone has an idea on how to loose less ... other than use
a 6 1/2 gal carboy :^) ). I'll post _my _definitive_ results :^)
Good Brewing!
Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Lorton, Virginia, USA
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 12:10:01 -0600
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Various
In HBD #1870, Greg Walz compared iodophor and bleach, and stated:
>
>(with Iodaphors you can air-dry without rinsing, but
>Iodaphor is about six times as expensive as bleach)
>
Dan Sherman responded:
>I disagree. If you use 3/4 cup of bleach per 5 gallons, you can make
>about 110 gal. of sanitizer per gallon of bleach (about $3). From many
>homebrew shops, you can buy 1L of iodophor for about $10. Using a
>concentration of 25ppm, you can make about 350 gal. of sanitizer (for
>$10). That seems about equivalent to me.
For me the cost is not the concern, it's easier to use and doesn't stink! I
gave up bleach after batch 4 or 5, I guess. Just another data point!
In HBD 1873 Robert Marshall wrote about Wyeast 1056 problems
Hmmmm. Kinda rash! I smacked a pack of 1056 at 11:30am yesterday. Piched it
at 11:30pm last night to a starter. It was showing signs of sweeling within
an hour! Date on the package was 10/25/95.
Doug
- --------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones
both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation
Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307
| djones at iex.com
- --------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:57:00 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Gravity of bottled beer / Cardamon / Bleach concentration
GRAVITY OF BOTTLED BEER: I just bottled a Kolsch, and I was very eager to
get the F.G., since I tried mashing differently, and I'm wondering how
attenuative the Kolsch yeast (Wyeast's) turned out. But goldurn it! I
trashed the sample I had extracted while bottling (never mind how - it was
very silly).
So I figure I'll just take a gravity reading of the bottled product. Any
tips how to do this? Specifically, will the carbonation bubbles throw the
reading off? Should I decarbonate it first?
CARDAMON: PERSAND at aol.com (Paul Rybak) wrote:
> I'm planning to add whole cardomon to this batch. Any idea on how much?
>(of course from an earlier thread-cardomon should be added to every brew! ;
Beware cardamon! I added 2 tsp. of cardamon seeds to a 5 gal. batch a
couple Xmas's ago, and it TOO MUCH! It mellowed after a few months to
where I could drink it, but no one else would. If you've ever tasted those
little black breath fresheners called Sen Sens, that's what too much
cardamon tastes like. Kind of like spicy, bitter soap. A wee touch would
be nice, but don't overdo it!
BLEACH CONCENTRATION: Dan Sherman <dsherman at sdcc3.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>If you use 3/4 cup of bleach per 5 gallons, you can make
>about 110 gal. of sanitizer per gallon of bleach (about $3).
But you don't need that high a concentration at all, except maybe for
removing labels or some other heavy duty cleansing operation. Papazian
recommends something like 1/2 tsp. per 5 gal. I err on the side of safety
and add about 1-2 tbsp. per 5 gal., as does another brewing buddy. We
haven't had any problems with sanitation at that rate.
- -----
Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca>
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 14:52:02 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Ragging on Megabrewers
Hey, ever since I became a judge, I now will drink small samples of
standard megabrew--after all, I have judged light lagers at competitions.
Generally tasteless they may be, but there are definite flavor differences a
good judge must be able to detect.
OTOH, given the choice between tasteless beer and no beer at all, no beer
will win just about every time. I must admit that everyone's tastes are
different, so mine is just another data point.
After all, you *can* still buy WonderBread(tm). It is just that with more
educated bread consumers, fewer are willing to put up with it. And you
can't easily make that style at home, either. Hopefully, it won't take too
long for the beer consumers to be as unwilling as bread consumers to put up
with bland, texture-free products (and maybe reduce market share from 98% to
well below 50%). Not that anything you can buy in the supermarket is as
good as bakery or home-made bread, but at least it is moving away from
WonderBread.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 15:03:09 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Sanitizing with Bleach
Russell Mast writes:
>For me, the main disadvantage is that it requires a lot of rinsing. (Yes,
>I tried warm water before I read how spooky most water heaters are, and it
>didn't speed up that I noticed.) Just a wee bit of bleach can give a nasty
>taste to any batch.
Has anyone tried to put together a "Sanitizer FAQ"? I seem to have read
stuff along those lines, probably from beginner advice or general brewing
FAQs. Probably worth pulling out separately.
Anyway, one of the big lessons for me many years ago was learning how to
sanitize properly with bleach. Tips I picked up on the HBD.
Basically, it boiled down to (yes, pun intentional) using the minimum amount
of bleach needed to achieve on the order of 200 ppm chlorine. And making
sure everything was clean first (no organics, for example). Then, I *drain*
all the liquid, let the drops settle, drain again, and let air-dry for ten
minutes or so. The result? Not enough chlorine to affect the batch. Never
any chlorine problems.
For those who worry, one 12-oz. can of cheap megabrew (which friends
probably brought over before they knew you wouldn't stoop to drinking it)
can effectively rinse a 6.5 gallon carboy--just swirl it around.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
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Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:31:29 +10
From: "Dave Draper" <david.draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: "Old" smack-packs
Dear Friends, I am a little bemused at the spate of posts recently
that characterize Wyeast packs dated in September 1995 as "old".
Here in Oz, I have never seen a Wyeast pack younger than about two or
three months, and many at six months or older. No problems from anyone
I know. My own personal experience is limited because I have bought
only about 8 of them, and inoculated slants from there on. But
Wyeast packs are used extensively in our club, and to my knowledge
none of the problems discussed here, attributed to this "age", have
come up often enough to warrant mention. If you want long travel
distances and potential heat during handling & shipping, I think we
take the cake! This is not to say that a particular lot of 1056
might not have been a problem; that's a separate issue. Just some
observations from Down Under.
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"I can't be bought for a mere $3.50." ---Jeff Renner
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
...I'm not from here, I just live here...
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 16:20:05 -0600
From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: looking for old BT issue
Does anyone have a copy of the Sept/Oct 1994 issue of Brewing
Techniques? I'm trying to get my hands on the water treatment
spreadsheet article. Can anyone help me?
TIA
jayw
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Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:49:59 +0000
From: "ron racine" <racine at brainiac.com>
Subject: Re: Bruheat
Dan,
I used a bruheat for about 1 1/2 yrs before I got a propane cooker and
an old keg. It worked well because at the time I had limited space.
You have to stirr frequently or else the mash heats unevenly. You
also need a 220 volt outlet. If you have an electric dryer you
probably have one. I also boiled in it also, but once I picked it up
by the metal handle while it was hot and the spigot popped out
pouring hot wort onto my feet. (Ouch!)
If you have the room I would use a different method for brewing, but
if space is limited it is a good option.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:59:16 +1100
From: davidh at melbpc.org.au (David Hill)
Subject: oil bath kettle
In order to avoid scortching of mash or sweet wort I have considered steam
heating and decided it is too difficult for me to engineer.
I am considering immersing the bottom of the kettle/tun in an oil bath
and then applying the gas flame directly to the bottom of the oil bath.
That should (I hope) provide me with most of the benefits of a steam
jacket without the engineering challenge necessary to make make a
steam jacket both workable and safe.
Any thoughts and criticisms of the idea would be greatly appreciated.
TIA
David Hill
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Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:20:17 +1100 (EST)
From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh)
Subject: hot water heaters - bacterial nurseries?
>Your article sent to homebrew is being rejected. The reason:
> -- No subject line given --
>
Geez!
>The text of your message is attached for your viewing pleasure.
Hi guys!
So what's all this stuff about hot water tanks being bacteria breeding
grounds? I have my hot water thermostat set at 65C, which will knock off all
but a few thermophilic lactobacilli, no? Hot water should be less
contaminated than the cold water that feeds it, so if your cold water is OK,
why shouldn't your hot water be? It's not as if I go pouring malt extract
into my tank or anything like that: there's not much to encourage bacterial
growth anyway - low oxygen levels, no food *and* high temps. I guess the
heat would drive off the chlorine, but surely it's done its job by then? Or
am I missing something else?
******************************************
Andy Walsh from Sydney
"What's wrong with being from here?"
Ph. (02) 212 6333 email awalsh at crl.com.au
******************************************
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1875, 11/04/95