HOMEBREW Digest #1875 Sat 04 November 1995

Digest #1874 Digest #1876

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Mail order scientific supplies (SUMMARY) ("Michael A. Owings")
  Bulging cans of Coopers (David Oliver)
  Homebrewing in Japan (Chris Pittock)
  WYeast 2112 responses (Todd W. Roat)
  Electro-boil in the basement (David Deaven)
  spelling (Rolland Everitt)
  contract brews ("Kevin A. Kutskill")
  Airlock Fluid/Sanitizing Bottle Caps (Jeff Hewit)
  water quality in Oakland/Berkeley (CA) area (Eric Palmer)
  yeast preserving (Andy Walsh)
  Re: kettles - scorching hops? (Fredrik Stahl)
  Propane vs. Natural Gas (Harlan Bauer)
  Re:    Building Yeast Volume (Tim Fields)
  RE Lager yeast (Tim Fields)
  Soluble Proteins (Russ Brodeur)
  (U)Gott Problems ("Rich Byrnes")
  bleach & environment (Neal Parker)
  Gott Spigot Construction ("Houseman, David L           TR")
  Slant media question ... (TJWILLIA)
  re:  NA beer (Keith Frank)
  Falsies in M/L tuns ("Palmer.John")
  Pete's 22 oz. Bottles (Greg Geiger)
  New Brewpubs (Todd Anderson)
  sierra yeast (Brad Roach)
  re:bleach vs iodophor (Tom Fitzpatrick)
  Blowoff and skum collection (Mark E. Thompson)
  Storing Wort for Yeast Starters ("James Hojel")
  RE: Starter Bottle Geometry, Can Openers, Volumous Blow-offs (Art McGregor)
  Various (Douglas R. Jones)
  Gravity of bottled beer / Cardamon / Bleach concentration (Derrick Pohl)
  Ragging on Megabrewers (John DeCarlo              )
  Sanitizing with Bleach (John DeCarlo              )
  "Old" smack-packs ("Dave Draper")
  looking for old BT issue (Jay Weissler)
  Re: Bruheat ("ron racine")
  oil bath kettle (David Hill)
  hot water heaters - bacterial nurseries? (Andy Walsh)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 14:18:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Michael A. Owings" <mikey at waste.com> Subject: Mail order scientific supplies (SUMMARY) A few days back I posted a question regarding mail order scientific equipment/gadget/toy supplier contact info. Here is a summary of the replies I have received: Company Contact ----------------- -------------- Edmund Scientific (609) 547-3488 American Science & Surplus (708) 982-0870 Fisher Scientific (800) 766-7000 Cole-Parmer (800) 323-4340 * PGC Scientifics (800) 424-3300 HACH (800) 227-4224 The Yeast Culture Kit Company Dan McConnell, danmcc at umich.edu * Does not appear to sell to individuals Thanx to all who responded to my original post. -- mikey Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 15:12:38 -0800 (PST) From: David Oliver <dwo at slip.net> Subject: Bulging cans of Coopers Hi all I wanted to thank everybody for all the replys on my extract dillema. When I feel lazy (I'm a dedicated all-grain brewer/snob) I think I'll go ahead and slap those cans along with a fair amount of crystal and chocolate malt into a pot and see what happens. Hey what the hell, its just sitting there and it won't cost me much. Thanks again for all the advice, I'll let you guys know what happens with it Dave Oliver Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 10:20:15 EST From: pittock at rsbs-central.anu.edu.au (Chris Pittock) Subject: Homebrewing in Japan A fellow brewer who is currently working in Japan sent me this: >You might be interested to know about homebrewing in Japan. Saw Coopers >>concentrate on sale over the weekend at A$48 a tin, and it was one of the >>cheaper brands. Pure malt extract was A$40 a litre as well and bottle tops >>were all of 25 cents each. This converts to around US$36.50 and US$30.50! >Added to all this, I have found out that it is strictly illegal to make >your own beer with more than 1% alcohol in it! Guess there wont be any >>Japanese Indian Pale Ales! Anyone scared?! Chris Pittock. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:34:40 -0500 From: troat at one.net (Todd W. Roat) Subject: WYeast 2112 responses Thanks for all the rapid responsesabout my woes concerning ferment temp for WYeast California Common yeast (#2112) Anchor steam attempt. Bottom line of responses was ferment around 60 degrees (response range: 50-65 degrees). Interestingly, I had the temp maintained at 50 degrees for 2 days....nothing happened. I slowly raised to 60 degrees for 1 days....nothing happened. I then slowly raised to 65 degrees....she took off! I dont know what this means aside from next time I will try at 65 degrees right off :^) Those who responded touting success at 55 degrees: whats the trick/magic touch! Prost to one and all...... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 18:29:07 -0600 From: David Deaven <deaven at ishmael.ameslab.gov> Subject: Electro-boil in the basement I thought I'd chip in my $0.02 about electric boiling. I have a 2200W rangetop element that I bought for $15 from a local appliance store (used). I installed it into a box made out of 2x4's with angle irons on top to support the element's metal pan. To control the current, I wired a heavy-duty relay inside the box, whose coil is connected to a small phone jack on the outside of the box. The main power comes from a 220V dryer cord. All of the dangerous 220V stuff is sealed inside the box during operation, and some aluminum foil covers the angle irons on top to prevent wort boil-overs from getting into the box (of course, my wort never boils over anyway :)). The system is pretty nice, because I can toggle the power myself, or let some electronics outside the boiler do the temperature control. What I found was that for boiling (I do a full wort boil on 5-7 gallons) I need about 45 minutes to reach a full boil if I start with cold tap water (extract recipe). This is longer than a big outdoor propane burner requires, but it is safe (I think the propane probably is too, if used with caution) and easy to control. The bottom line is, though, that 2200W is about the minimum you can get away with and still have enough power to bring the wort to a good rolling boil. So the 120V/15A elements are probably not worth the effort (separate circuits, etc) because you'll just be frustrated with the lack of heating power. YMMV. - --- David Deaven deaven at ishmael.ameslab.gov A504 Physics tel 515-294-6878 Ames Laboratory fax 515-294-0689 Ames IA 50011 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 19:43:54 -0500 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: spelling This message is not really about beer, although the word beer will appear twice in this sentence. I am not usually a stickler for proper spelling, but one frequent error is worth mentioning. "Frig" is not an app;liance, it is an activity. The word you want is "fridge". Related words are refrigerator and refrigerated. :-) Rolland Everitt af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Nov 95 20:57:33 EST From: "Kevin A. Kutskill" <75233.500 at compuserve.com> Subject: contract brews Enlighten me, oh great collective--what does it take to start a contract brew (besides a good beer)? Just the bare facts--cost, time invested, need of marketing experience, etc. No need for great details. Just curious, after a nite of shootin' the breeze with some of my homebrew buddies. TIA, Kevin A. Kutskill ("Dr. Rottguts") Clinton Township, MI "A homebrew a day keeps the doctor happy" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 21:28:49 -0500 From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit) Subject: Airlock Fluid/Sanitizing Bottle Caps I use 100 proof vodka in my airlocks and for sanitizing bottle caps. It's not as cheap as bleach, but it can't spoil beer in case an airlock suffers a suck back. It's easy to use, and doesn't need rinsing or air drying. BTW, I use iodophor for most of my other sanitizing jobs because of the ease of not having to rinse. The only time I use bleach is when I run my bottles through the dishwasher, and I let it do the rinsing. Brew on! Jeff Hewit Midlothian, Virginia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 95 20:28:37 PST From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer) Subject: water quality in Oakland/Berkeley (CA) area In #1872, Novices at piniecki.haas.berkeley.EDU enquired about his local water quality. I' m in San Jose so can't comment on East Bay water but suggest you (anyone) call your local water company. You may be pleasently surprised with the response. I called the Santa Clara County Water Dist. and was put through to the lab where a chemist spent 20 minutes on the phone with me. He then gave me the name and number of a chemist for San Jose Water who is the actual distributor (they buy from the county) so I could find out the percentage of ground water vs. surface water my particular neighborhood is getting. This naturally has an impact on hardness levels. My water tastes great with no hint of clorine. I do boil everything, however, just to be safe. If I had to guess, Oakland/Berkeley probably has excellent water from a purity standpoint and probably not as hard as the South Bay which is predominantly ground water (from aquafiers). It may come from the hetch-hetchy (sp?) reservoir in the Sierra's which is where SF get's their water. This is run-off from the Yosemitie area snow pack. There are worse places to get your water. Then again, I could be wrong. Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 20:17:51 +1100 (EST) From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh) Subject: yeast preserving Hi. Sorry about the previous message, I forgot to enter a subject. Just a note on storing yeast in the fridge. Someone mentioned they had some trouble with autolysis after washing yeast. I must disagree with the yeast faq on storing yeast on water in the fridge. In my experience they are not very happy being stored this way, they much prefer wort or beer. This provides both nutrients and a more natural osmotic environment. So try storing in a bottle of wort (but use an airlock!). Even ale yeasts will work slowly around 5C or so (I have some 3944 bubbling away now at this temp). It will enable storage for much longer than using water. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:43:39 +0100 From: fredriks at abel.math.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl) Subject: Re: kettles - scorching hops? In HBD #1873, Don wrote about his boiler setup. He uses a Sanke keg with inverted bottom, a manifold connected to the tap and an electric heating element. I do not know anything about problems with inverting the bottom, but I have some other questions. I am planning to do something similar but was afraid that the heating element would scorch the hops. For this reason I have been thinking of using a false bottom instead, sitting _above_ the element, to prevent hops from reaching the element. Have you had any problems with this, Don? And by the way, what kind of element are you using? Another problem I am thinking of is how to drill/saw the holes for the element and the tap and making the seals tight. Thanks for any help! /Fredrik Stahl, FredrikS at abel.math.umu.se Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 05:31:08 -0600 From: blacksab at siu.edu (Harlan Bauer) Subject: Propane vs. Natural Gas I'm sorry, but I simply can't let a half-truth go unchallenged. Although it is true that Propane is heavier than air and therefore pools on the ground, so does Natural Gas. Both gasses are heavier than air, and both have the potential to pool. Could someone familiar with the relative molecular weights post the densities of air, propane, and natural gas. Is propane really that much heavier than natural gas? The reason the tanks say not to use them indoors is mainly to keep the manufacturer from getting sued. Just like the warning on ladders not to stand on the top step which I do all the time, and I've NEVER fallen off a ladder. Sorry for all my ranting of late, Harlan Return to table of contents
Date: 02 Nov 95 07:30:46 EST From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Building Yeast Volume In 1873, phil.brushaber at lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber) writes: >I've been brewing for about four years, but still have a pretty basic >question. Can you build yeast volume with successive feedings in a one >gallon jug. > >I am going to brew a batch about a month from now where I want a large >vloume of yeast. My plan was to pitch up to one gallon, let the starter >brew out, pour off the spent beer, feed the yeast, etc. until December. I use a 1 gal apple cider jug to build my starters - works fine for building up yeast. However, I do not pour off the clear liquid/spent beer before each addition. I do let each additon pretty much ferment out before adding the next addition. I only pour off the clear liquid when ready to pitch. Make sure to aerate each wort addition before adding to the jug. "Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA timf at relay.com (non-brewing time) 74247.551 at compuserve.com (weekends) Return to table of contents
Date: 02 Nov 95 07:30:55 EST From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com> Subject: RE Lager yeast Mike, >Once it was >up to 60F, I checked the specific gravity, and pitched 1 package of >lager Wyeast. Did you smak it and let it swell first? did you build a starter? I believe (memory only-havent used lager yeast) that lagers start slower, and also that one should pitch at higher rates than for ale yeast. >Now, 36 hours later, I have not seen one bubble work its >way up through the airlock. Do I need to pitch more Wyeast? More is always better. Std rule of thumb for ale is to pitch 1 to 10 - for 5 gal, this translates to the slurry from a 2 qt starter (.5 gal). In practice, most HBDers I've communicated with say that 1 qt is fine (mental averaging here - no flames please). For your lager, I would use the 2 qts - or more. Also-did you aerate the wort before pitching? "Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA timf at relay.com (non-brewing time) 74247.551 at compuserve.com (weekends) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 08:56:53 -0500 From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur) Subject: Soluble Proteins Q: Does the percentage of soluble protein have an appreciable effect on SG? I know they strongly affect mouthfeel and head retention, but I am unclear as to their contribution to the FG. TIA TTFN --<- at Russ Brodeur (r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com) Franklin, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 08:49:43 EST From: "Rich Byrnes" <rich.byrnes at e-mail.com> Subject: (U)Gott Problems In response to David Rinkers Gott Problems.... >1)Should I replace my spigot assembly with something less >conductive to heat? (What do you other Gott people do?) I replaced the Gott valve with a standard bottling spigot, had to cut the outer wall of the gott so the spigot is now a bulkhead fitting up against the inner wall, sealed with Dow-Dap on the inside for absolute liquid proof seal. The opening of the spigot on the inside accepts a ? dia hose (sorry, I'm at work and don't have my notes) The standard size hose from my Phils Phalse Bottom then snugs inside this hose (well, the last 2 inches anyways), works great, and comes out pretty easily for cleaning. >2)Are there any good ways of insulating the lid? I would be neat >to spray some foam insulatin in there. By all means, remove the plastic "bung" from the inside and use the spray foam, it takes a while to cure in an enclosed space, but it will eventuall set. Don't worry about the foam oozing out of the hole, that's natural and can be broken off after it cures. The insulating effect is tremendous! I had to spray the foam 2 or 3 times, aiming the nozzle in different parts to get complete coverage, I'm not sure if this is normal or not, but it worked! >3)How can I monitor the temp inside the cooler w/o opening the lid? Well, you could buy a good compost thermometer, they usually have an 18" stem, find one that you can calibrate, and CALIBRATE it first. Then poke a small hole in the lid, dead canter and slide the stem through the foam and the soft bung on the inside, you can then check the temps at different levels, mine has a 1.5" dial, easy to read. Hope this helps! Rich Byrnes Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen Ignore the next few lines, lord knows I do!!! Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|/// phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.) Rich.Byrnes at E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 08:29:30 EST From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker) Subject: bleach & environment Russel Mast writes: >No, Greg, I like bleach okay, but I don't fault those who don't use it. It >also is supposedly very destructive to the environment. (That should make >it appeal that much more to certain people, of course...) I've been using bleach for years now (with at least 3 rinses). One of the reasons I like it (besides the cost) is that it's a powerful sterilizer but it's still biodegradable (or so it says on the side of the Javex bottle). I think it breaks down to very innocuous compounds. If this isn't the case I'd like to know because an awful lot goes down the drain each time I brew. Any Chemical types with a proper explanation? Neal Parker nparker at lockheed.on.ca Lockheed Martin Canada Kanata, Ontario, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 09:27:00 EST From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.Tr.Unisys.com> Subject: Gott Spigot Construction Several posts have indicated problems with construction of the Gott mash/lauter tun. While not an expert in this, I can relate what I've found to be the quickest and easiest construction technique; perhaps not the cheapest. Buy a plastic spigot from your homebrew store that's used at the bottom of bottling buckets. Threaded, plastic nut, red handle and outlet that fits 3/8" tubing. Also buy a number 2 rubber stopper. You will need some FDA approved Silicone Caulk (any hardware store). For the false bottom I used the Phils Phalse bottom, but an Easymasher 1/4" copper tube and screen will work also. Remove the Gott (mine was the 10gal) spigot assembly. In order to get the new plastic spigot assembly in place, I had to ream out the opening just a little with my Dremel tool. The new spigot assembly was put in place and sealed with the FDA Silicone Caulk prior to tightning down the nut. This is allowed to cure overnight. To connect the Phalse Bottom to the spigot on the inside, I got a piece of 1/4" copper tube about 5" in length and connected this to the Phalse Bottom with a 1/2" piece of plastic 3/8" tubing as a more or less permanent assembly. The #2 stopper is then placed over the copper tube and this goes into the plastic spigot of the Gott. The same concept could be applied to the Easymasher assembly as well. For sparging, I bought the rotating sparge assembly (Phils?), drilled an appropriate hole in the Gott lid and mounted it in place. A thermometer is also permanently in place via a small hole about 3" above the spigot so I can read the mash temperture without taking the lid off. I've not noticed any appreciable temperture loss during a one hour mash. Good luck to those that use this; it works for me. Dave Houseman Groundhog Brewery "Without a shadow of a doubt, great beer" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 09:45:25 EST From: TJWILLIA at VM.OCC.CC.MI.US Subject: Slant media question ... Greetings, Quick question for some of you microbial trained brewers ... Are there any available lab media formulas (i.e. specifically for propagating yeast) that I should avoid when making up slants? I have the opportunity to access a lab resource and personnel to assist my efforts at yeast farming, but they do not have specific info concerning brewers yeast strains. TIA. Tom Williams tjwillia at vm.occ.cc.mi.us Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:08:55 -0600 From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank) Subject: re: NA beer ***** from Bruce DeBolt ***** Eric writes regarding NA beer by the heating method: >Question --- Has anyone tried this? If so, what's it do to flavor? I >have trouble thinking this simple process won't totally trash an >otherwise good (if not great) beer. Eric - if you can search HBD look for Nov. 1994-Jan. 1995 for a lot of posts on this topic. I've tried the heating method and can verify by gas chromatography analysis that it definitely makes low alcohol beer. You have to reduce the beer volume significantly, 30% or more, to get below the 0.5% legal definition of no-alcohol. Regarding flavor - I agree with Al Korzonas who mentioned losing fruitiness. Some (perhaps all) of the aromatics will be driven off. BUT - if you just want something better than commercial NA beer I think this is still a good method. The person I made it for (pregnant at the time) was very pleased compared to her other options. Heating does affect the flavor, but I don't think it "totally trashes" it. There is another technique which avoids these problems but still has a few of its own. I have the original posts at home but the summary is: - Pour beer into a PET bottle, attach cap - Turn upside and place in the freezer for 1-2 days - Gently open the cap and allow the small amount of liquid to drain - Attach a Carbonator(R) cap and pressurize with CO2 tank OR add yeast and priming sugar and bottle (be careful about sanitation) One precaution - the liquid may gush out when the cap is cracked open. The author stated that this made excellent flavored beer. The drawbacks were removal of some hop bitterness and body. The recommended solution was to use a beer with higher bitterness and body than normal. I haven't tried it but it sounds like a good technique. By the end of the year I should have something to report on the alcohol level by this method. In Al Korzonas' response to Eric: >I would recommend dryhopping after removing the alcohol to put back >some kind of aroma. My limited understanding is that dry hopping is an alcohol extraction process. If the alcohol is removed or significantly reduced, will this work? Or is dry hopping not due to alcohol extraction of hop aromatics? Another option would be to use aromatic hop extract, you could dose each glass according to preference. Bruce DeBolt Lake Jackson, TX direct e-mail usdowq6c at ibmmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Nov 1995 07:57:11 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Falsies in M/L tuns Spencer noted that the Pico Brewing Systems tun has a gallon of dead space beneath the false bottom and experiences no scorching problems: I do tend to believe that the larger volume helps with circulation during heating but I think the fact that the Pico systems have pumps and forced recirculation is the big key. Both Don Put and I have manifolds in our M/L Tuns and we stir the mash during heating to prevent scorching. I hand stir mine, Don uses his Binford Mashmixer 6000. I would be willing to draw the conclusion that it is *necessary* to have forced recirculation in conjunction with a false bottomed M/L tun to prevent scorching during heating. One idea that I have had (as have others), is to put a central pipe down thru the grainbed to the false bottom which act like the pipe in a coffee perculator. Perhaps you would need a floating ball valve in the pipe to encourage one way flow to the top of the grainbed... John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 11:50:05 -0500 From: Greg Geiger <geiger at grove.ufl.edu> Subject: Pete's 22 oz. Bottles :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: I thought I read somewhere that Pete's is selling 22oz. bottles through their (T-shirt) catalog. Has anybody else heard of this and what is the price, contact number, etc? Dave Pike davep at cirrus.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! You can obtain a catalog (flyer) in twelve packs of any of Pete's Wicked = Brews (I got mine in a twelver of ale). The catalog sells these bottles = for $3.50 a case(12). S&H is $4.00 for anything up to $10.00, $5.00 for = anything from 10.01 to $25.00, and so on, so It would be to your = advantage to buy in bulk. Item# PG22 you can order them at 1-800-382-7457 Drink one for me. Greg Geiger geiger at grove.ufl.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 95 11:50:10 EST From: Todd Anderson <TRANDER at UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU> Subject: New Brewpubs Just a little note to all that Columbia, S.C. seems to be developing into the brewpub capitol of the southeast. Three brewpubs have opened within the last month. They are: 1)Hunter-Gatherer Brewpub - small very cozy place that serves English-style ales and porters. The porter, I found was the best. 2)Columbia Brewing Company - large brewpub and restaurant. They have a couple of ale and a porter and I think they're working on a weizen. Also serve large selection of micros in the area. 3)Vista Brewing Company - Haven't been there yey, but it's right around the corner from Columbia B.C. Rumor has it another will be opening within a year. Not bad for city of less than 100,000. More brewpubs than Atlanta or Washington,D.C. Cheers, Todd Anderson Grad. Student University of South Carolina Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 09:11:07 PST From: b_roach at emulex.com (Brad Roach) Subject: sierra yeast I have not tried to re-claim the Sierra Nevada yeast, but when I mentioned the idea to a friend, I was told that the yeast in the bottle was bottling yeast, and the fermentation yeast was filtered out prior to bottling. Brad Roach Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 11:13:49 -0600 (CST) From: fitz at fasicsv.fnal.gov (Tom Fitzpatrick) Subject: re:bleach vs iodophor >In HBD #1870, Greg Walz compared iodophor and bleach, and stated: >>(with Iodaphors you can air-dry without rinsing, but >>Iodaphor is about six times as expensive as bleach) >I disagree. If you use 3/4 cup of bleach per 5 gallons, you can make >about 110 gal. of sanitizer per gallon of bleach (about $3). From many >homebrew shops, you can buy 1L of iodophor for about $10. Using a >concentration of 25ppm, you can make about 350 gal. of sanitizer (for >$10). That seems about equivalent to me. >Dan Sherman >San Diego, CA >dsherman at ucsd.edu I have to take exception to the above numbers. First, 3/4 cup of bleach to 5 gal is *way* too much ... about 1/3 cup/5 gal yields about 250ppm chlorine according to my chlorine papers. I'd say I get at least 50 x 5gal = 250 gallons of chlorine water from a 64oz jug of 79 cent bleach (on sale, stock up). It doesn't get any cheaper than that. I use iodophor for my stainless toys. The bottle directions call for 1 oz./5gal for a 25ppm conc. (or was that 12.5? I'm doing this by memory, always dangerous). This does not translate to 350 gal of sanitizer, more like 150. But with iodophor, who says that you have to *fill* the container with solution. I mix only a gallon and just swish the solution around for a minute or so. Contact time is short enough that I believe just coating the surfaces suffices. This method really stretches the iodophor. I won't argue for either since I use bleach for glass/plastic and iodophor for stainless. Tom Fitzpatrick Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 9:06:13 PST From: Mark E. Thompson <markt at hptal04.cup.hp.com> Subject: Blowoff and skum collection Full-Name: Mark E. Thompson Russell Mast wrote: > > Blowoff hoses - I prefer to put a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon carboy, and > collect the evil gunk on the sides where it will stick. I've used a blowoff > now and then, depending on volume of beer and size of primary. Never really > noticed a significant pattern of difference in the final products. One of my most commonly used yeast is the wy1007 german ale. i like it a lot for english ales and kolsch. the only problem is clearing. I have fermented it in closed systems only (6.5g glass and keg). I just got the latest book by Miller and he mentioned that 1007 is listed as a good flouclator. He aslo says that they don't tell you that it flouclates into a thick pancake on the top and if it isn't skimmed it drops back through leaving lots of particles in suspension. This is exactly my experience. In this case the 'sick to the sides' method doesn't work. Now i'm in the market for a sutible vessil for open fermentation. So i guess my point is that blowoff tube or 6.5 carboy or open fermenter choice realy depends on the characteristics of the yeast. I think that if i used a 5 gallon carboy with a blowoff tube with a 5g batch using 1007 to start i would end with about 3 gallons. 1007 gets rather active. Mark Thompson Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:19:48 -0800 From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Burnt Crud Greetings, All: After fifty or so batches (extract based) I had a strange experience on my last batch. A nice black ring of burnt crud (sugars) on the bottom of my 15 gal keg boiler. Reminiscent of the last time the SO let the water boil out of a pot of beans -- and that was _my_ fault too somehow, BTW. Question: How do I get rid of this stuff? I've tried tsp, dishwasher detergent, softscrub(tm), steel wool, etc. with no luck. I'd really hate to have to only brew stouts and porters from now on. ;-) Randy Erickson Modesto, California Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 17:51:14 UT From: "James Hojel" <JTroy at msn.com> Subject: Storing Wort for Yeast Starters I have 2 short questions: 1) I'm getting very tiered of paying a couple of bucks every time I want to make a yeast starter (DME). Question: can I collect some left-over runnings from my Mash and save it for later use? Maybe freezing it and boiling it when needed? How long will frozen Wort last; what affects does freezing Wort have on the quality (chemical structure etc.)? Basically, what is the most efficient and quality way of saving some Wort for later use? 2) Again, I'm also getting tiered of paying for yeast every time. What book is the best for learning yeast culturing and where is the cheapest place to get supplies (inoculation loop, etc.)? Thanks Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 12:59:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> Subject: RE: Starter Bottle Geometry, Can Openers, Volumous Blow-offs Hi Everyone! I can't offer any comment on HBD discussions on Yeast lot contamination, but have an observation on my experience with starters. I use about 12-18 ounces of hopped wort (saved from a previous batch), and used Yeast #1056 saved and washed also from a previous batch. I have noticed that when the starter is made in a 1.5 liter Champagne bottle, there is more krausen (a healthier starter?) then when a 1 gal wine bottle is used (little to no krausen). My guess is that the low volume of started is affected by the geometry of the bottle it sits in, similar to the effects of the fermentation tank geometry mentioned by George Fix in an earlier HBD post. * * * * * * * I was wondering if anyone has difficulties opening extract cans with their can openers. I don't know if its a problem with my can opener, but I usually have no problems with other cans. The can opener will skip a few places on the can, which has forced me to use my trusty Swiss Knife to free the lid so I can pour the extract into the brew pot. I believe that soaking the can in warm water for 5 minutes (to soften the extract) is the cause. Any comments? * * * * * * * My last item is with volumous blowoffs. I have been averaging between 2/3-3/4 gallon of blowoff on each of my past 5 batches. I brew Ales, ferment in 5 gal carboys, 1" blowoff tubes, use Yeast #1056, basement temperature (69-75 degrees F), and don't rack the wort off the hops or hot/cold break for fermentation. I never had such large blowoffs with my first 40 batches over the past 2 years. So what's going on, and what can I do to reduce the volume of lost beer? Since I'm not happy about loosing so much potential beer, I've been experimenting with saving the stuff. After the blowoff finishes, I transfer the blowoff into 1 gal wine jugs with airlocks, then transfer to secondary 1 gal wine jug, and bottling after a few weeks. I've tried a few of the bottles so far and haven't yet decided if this is worth the effort. The two I've tried were a little more bitter and thinner (less body) than the bottled beer from the batch. I expect to decide to continue this procedure after some more samples (unless someone has an idea on how to loose less ... other than use a 6 1/2 gal carboy :^) ). I'll post _my _definitive_ results :^) Good Brewing! Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Lorton, Virginia, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 1995 12:10:01 -0600 From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) Subject: Various In HBD #1870, Greg Walz compared iodophor and bleach, and stated: > >(with Iodaphors you can air-dry without rinsing, but >Iodaphor is about six times as expensive as bleach) > Dan Sherman responded: >I disagree. If you use 3/4 cup of bleach per 5 gallons, you can make >about 110 gal. of sanitizer per gallon of bleach (about $3). From many >homebrew shops, you can buy 1L of iodophor for about $10. Using a >concentration of 25ppm, you can make about 350 gal. of sanitizer (for >$10). That seems about equivalent to me. For me the cost is not the concern, it's easier to use and doesn't stink! I gave up bleach after batch 4 or 5, I guess. Just another data point! In HBD 1873 Robert Marshall wrote about Wyeast 1056 problems Hmmmm. Kinda rash! I smacked a pack of 1056 at 11:30am yesterday. Piched it at 11:30pm last night to a starter. It was showing signs of sweeling within an hour! Date on the package was 10/25/95. Doug - -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones at iex.com - -------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 10:57:00 -0800 From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl) Subject: Gravity of bottled beer / Cardamon / Bleach concentration GRAVITY OF BOTTLED BEER: I just bottled a Kolsch, and I was very eager to get the F.G., since I tried mashing differently, and I'm wondering how attenuative the Kolsch yeast (Wyeast's) turned out. But goldurn it! I trashed the sample I had extracted while bottling (never mind how - it was very silly). So I figure I'll just take a gravity reading of the bottled product. Any tips how to do this? Specifically, will the carbonation bubbles throw the reading off? Should I decarbonate it first? CARDAMON: PERSAND at aol.com (Paul Rybak) wrote: > I'm planning to add whole cardomon to this batch. Any idea on how much? >(of course from an earlier thread-cardomon should be added to every brew! ; Beware cardamon! I added 2 tsp. of cardamon seeds to a 5 gal. batch a couple Xmas's ago, and it TOO MUCH! It mellowed after a few months to where I could drink it, but no one else would. If you've ever tasted those little black breath fresheners called Sen Sens, that's what too much cardamon tastes like. Kind of like spicy, bitter soap. A wee touch would be nice, but don't overdo it! BLEACH CONCENTRATION: Dan Sherman <dsherman at sdcc3.ucsd.edu> wrote: >If you use 3/4 cup of bleach per 5 gallons, you can make >about 110 gal. of sanitizer per gallon of bleach (about $3). But you don't need that high a concentration at all, except maybe for removing labels or some other heavy duty cleansing operation. Papazian recommends something like 1/2 tsp. per 5 gal. I err on the side of safety and add about 1-2 tbsp. per 5 gal., as does another brewing buddy. We haven't had any problems with sanitation at that rate. - ----- Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca> Vancouver, B.C., Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 14:52:02 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: Ragging on Megabrewers Hey, ever since I became a judge, I now will drink small samples of standard megabrew--after all, I have judged light lagers at competitions. Generally tasteless they may be, but there are definite flavor differences a good judge must be able to detect. OTOH, given the choice between tasteless beer and no beer at all, no beer will win just about every time. I must admit that everyone's tastes are different, so mine is just another data point. After all, you *can* still buy WonderBread(tm). It is just that with more educated bread consumers, fewer are willing to put up with it. And you can't easily make that style at home, either. Hopefully, it won't take too long for the beer consumers to be as unwilling as bread consumers to put up with bland, texture-free products (and maybe reduce market share from 98% to well below 50%). Not that anything you can buy in the supermarket is as good as bakery or home-made bread, but at least it is moving away from WonderBread. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 15:03:09 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: Sanitizing with Bleach Russell Mast writes: >For me, the main disadvantage is that it requires a lot of rinsing. (Yes, >I tried warm water before I read how spooky most water heaters are, and it >didn't speed up that I noticed.) Just a wee bit of bleach can give a nasty >taste to any batch. Has anyone tried to put together a "Sanitizer FAQ"? I seem to have read stuff along those lines, probably from beginner advice or general brewing FAQs. Probably worth pulling out separately. Anyway, one of the big lessons for me many years ago was learning how to sanitize properly with bleach. Tips I picked up on the HBD. Basically, it boiled down to (yes, pun intentional) using the minimum amount of bleach needed to achieve on the order of 200 ppm chlorine. And making sure everything was clean first (no organics, for example). Then, I *drain* all the liquid, let the drops settle, drain again, and let air-dry for ten minutes or so. The result? Not enough chlorine to affect the batch. Never any chlorine problems. For those who worry, one 12-oz. can of cheap megabrew (which friends probably brought over before they knew you wouldn't stoop to drinking it) can effectively rinse a 6.5 gallon carboy--just swirl it around. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 08:31:29 +10 From: "Dave Draper" <david.draper at mq.edu.au> Subject: "Old" smack-packs Dear Friends, I am a little bemused at the spate of posts recently that characterize Wyeast packs dated in September 1995 as "old". Here in Oz, I have never seen a Wyeast pack younger than about two or three months, and many at six months or older. No problems from anyone I know. My own personal experience is limited because I have bought only about 8 of them, and inoculated slants from there on. But Wyeast packs are used extensively in our club, and to my knowledge none of the problems discussed here, attributed to this "age", have come up often enough to warrant mention. If you want long travel distances and potential heat during handling & shipping, I think we take the cake! This is not to say that a particular lot of 1056 might not have been a problem; that's a separate issue. Just some observations from Down Under. Cheers, Dave in Sydney "I can't be bought for a mere $3.50." ---Jeff Renner - --- *************************************************************************** David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia Email: david.draper at mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper ...I'm not from here, I just live here... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 95 16:20:05 -0600 From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler) Subject: looking for old BT issue Does anyone have a copy of the Sept/Oct 1994 issue of Brewing Techniques? I'm trying to get my hands on the water treatment spreadsheet article. Can anyone help me? TIA jayw Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 17:49:59 +0000 From: "ron racine" <racine at brainiac.com> Subject: Re: Bruheat Dan, I used a bruheat for about 1 1/2 yrs before I got a propane cooker and an old keg. It worked well because at the time I had limited space. You have to stirr frequently or else the mash heats unevenly. You also need a 220 volt outlet. If you have an electric dryer you probably have one. I also boiled in it also, but once I picked it up by the metal handle while it was hot and the spigot popped out pouring hot wort onto my feet. (Ouch!) If you have the room I would use a different method for brewing, but if space is limited it is a good option. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 09:59:16 +1100 From: davidh at melbpc.org.au (David Hill) Subject: oil bath kettle In order to avoid scortching of mash or sweet wort I have considered steam heating and decided it is too difficult for me to engineer. I am considering immersing the bottom of the kettle/tun in an oil bath and then applying the gas flame directly to the bottom of the oil bath. That should (I hope) provide me with most of the benefits of a steam jacket without the engineering challenge necessary to make make a steam jacket both workable and safe. Any thoughts and criticisms of the idea would be greatly appreciated. TIA David Hill Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 14:20:17 +1100 (EST) From: awalsh at crl.com.au (Andy Walsh) Subject: hot water heaters - bacterial nurseries? >Your article sent to homebrew is being rejected. The reason: > -- No subject line given -- > Geez! >The text of your message is attached for your viewing pleasure. Hi guys! So what's all this stuff about hot water tanks being bacteria breeding grounds? I have my hot water thermostat set at 65C, which will knock off all but a few thermophilic lactobacilli, no? Hot water should be less contaminated than the cold water that feeds it, so if your cold water is OK, why shouldn't your hot water be? It's not as if I go pouring malt extract into my tank or anything like that: there's not much to encourage bacterial growth anyway - low oxygen levels, no food *and* high temps. I guess the heat would drive off the chlorine, but surely it's done its job by then? Or am I missing something else? ****************************************** Andy Walsh from Sydney "What's wrong with being from here?" Ph. (02) 212 6333 email awalsh at crl.com.au ****************************************** Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1875, 11/04/95