FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  compressed files from ftp sites (Rolland Everitt)
  Inverted Carboy Fertmenter Products (Eric Marzewski)
  Bread yeast and beer ("Kevin A. Kutskill")
  CAMRA and WWW ("Dr. Gillian Grafton")
  for_publication_only (Mark Redman)
  Disturbing Pub Trend (Jim Overstreet)
  Caramel (Merino Lithographics)
  Brewferm Ambiorix information (FLATTER)
  pombe/free fridge ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  Celebration Ale - IPA recipe (Delano Dugarm 36478)
  PET bottles, O2 permeability (Kostas Daskalakis)
  Re:Oxygen permeation (Bob McCowan)
  Re: Old fridge smells (Robert L. Lamothe)
  Sam Adams (arg). (Russell Mast)
  Re: Boiled kegs (hollen)
  Spirit of Belgium announcement (Scott Bickham)
  Wine making report (Kris Thomas Messenger)
  Inside Cooking (Bob McCowan)
  DMS Production (Russ Brodeur)
  Stopper trapped in Carboy (Chuck and Grace Burkins)
  re: black and tan ("Pat OHanlon")
  Water chemistry problem (Bird)
  myces and mycetes ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Scientists and Yeast Farmers alike (Eiron Robb Cudaback)
  White film on bottles?? (jcmas)
  Gas Burners ("Gregg A. Howard")
  Propane alternatives (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
  Howdy! (anonymous-remailer)
  Tastelessness (C. Rosen)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 19:24:56 -0500
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: compressed files from ftp sites



Somebody inquired how to decompress files found at the Stanford
ftp site.  These files have ".Z" as the filename extension. This
naming convention indicates that the files were compressed with
compress (that's the name of the program).  If you cannot find
a version of compress for your PC, let ftp decompress the files
during downloading.  When you enter your "get" command, leave
the .Z off the filename.  The file will be decompressed auto-
matically.

Rolland Everitt
af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov

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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 20:17:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Marzewski <emarzews at nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: Inverted Carboy Fertmenter Products

Eh People,

I received a couple of responses on the carboys products that allow you 
to ferment/ turn your carboy into a conical fermenter.  They were both 
negative...
summary:
 -had to rack yeast out several times, still got more yeast then wanted in 
final transfer, clogged tubes... even after several yeast removals.  Overall,
easier to rack off with siphon or slight CO2 pressure/closed system into 
CO2-

I've never tried them, but still it seems like a possible way to 
store/propagate yeast by having an active culture for ale for a short 
time as it ferments and lagers for months of brewing if you 
have a chest freezer or real cool basement.  They all said yeast was
"rackable".  What if a club, group of friends or person wanted to get
yeast cultures for pitching all off one culture/step up.  I am not accounting
that you could easily do it at high krausen or an optimal time to repitch 
a culture.  

If there's anymore thoughs, I'd be glad to summarize them for the digest.

Cheers,

Eric Marzewski
emarzews at nova.umuc.edu

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Date: 27 Nov 95 23:43:45 EST
From: "Kevin A. Kutskill" <75233.500 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Bread yeast and beer

Here's a twist on the ol' phrase _is my beer ruined?_  I have a friend
(honestly, it is a friend and not me) who thought he had a dead packet of dried
yeast and used regular bread yeast to ferment his first batch of homebrew.  Is
my friend's beer ruined?  Never heard of this before--wondering if anyone has
any information about the taste characteristics of bread yeast (red star brand).
Looking forward to tasting a slice of it when it is done :-).

Kevin A. Kutskill ("Dr. Rottguts")
Clinton Township, MI

"A homebrew a day keeps the doctor happy"


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Date:          Tue, 28 Nov 1995 09:19:49 +0000
From: "Dr. Gillian Grafton" <GRAFTONG at novell2.bham.ac.uk>
Subject:       CAMRA and WWW

Hi all

Just a note to let you know that CAMRA are now on the web at:
http://www.camra.org.uk/index.html
The page is still under construction but they would appreciate your 
comments. CAMRA HQ now has a new email address:
camra at camra.org.uk

Gillian
//=\   Dr. Gillian Grafton
\=//   Department of Immunology
 //=\  University of Birmingham
 \=//  Birmingham, UK
  //=\ Email:  GraftonG at novell2.bham.ac.uk
  \=// www:  http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/GraftonG/

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 06:25:51 -0500
From: Mark Redman <redman at vivid.net>
Subject: for_publication_only

I have been an all-grain brewer for a couple of years, and still bottle with
a corn sugar prime. I recently entered a brewing contest, and although I won
a couple of third place awards, I was counted off for a "winey" taste
attributed to corn sugar. I want to start priming with either malt extract
or wort saved from brew day, and would like some feedback on a couple of
areas. What amount of extract is sufficient for adequate carbonation? I brew
a lot of German Pilsners so I would like a good deal of carbonation. How
much longer does it take to carbonate using extract? Remember, I am
carbonating at 50 degrees F.
What are the advantages of krausening with wort saved from brew day, and
what amount if sufficient for proper carbonation? Any feedback would be
appreciated.


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:50:07 -0700
From: wa5dxp at mail.sstar.com (Jim Overstreet)
Subject: Disturbing Pub Trend

In the New Orleans area, there has been a very disturbing and I think
very negative trend at places serving "craft beers".  Over the last several
months, it appears most of the pubs have switched over to an "air delivery"
system of pushing beer, in place of the old CO2 method.  I first noticed
this at my regular pubs all throughout the New Orleans area and surrounding
towns.  I was told a large percentage of the
local establishments have switched over to this system.  You first notice the
difference by the sorry "taste" of the beer, it tastes flat and flavorless
or "cardboardy".  

(I had originally included specific names in this post, and edited them out in
case the owners have that infamous Jim Koch disease.)  

I wonder if any other cities have fallen for this "bill of goods" and are
switching over to this nefarious system?  Could this be what is responsible
for the HBD threads citing the lack of flavor at the once-great micro's?

By the way, the new Acadian Brewery Brewpub is now open, but not selling their
own beers, as the brewhouse is not online yet.  I have been assured by the
principals there they will NEVER go to an air delivery system.  They are
located on Carrolton Ave. one block East of Canal St, across from the
Venezia's Italian Restaurant.  They claim they will sell only fresh product.
They have Abita, Dixie, Vermillion, Rickenjacks, Guinness on tap, and a 
good selection of imported beers.  Brewmaster Doug Lindley says he hopes to
have brewery online by New Years with a Pils as the initial offering.  They
will be brewing in 30 bbl batches.

Is this "Air Delivery System" a local or nationwide trend?    


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 21:55:40 +1000
From: merino at cynergy.com.au (Merino Lithographics)
Subject: Caramel

Andy Walsh posted
>Just what is caramel anyway? It starts off as sucrose, but what does
>it end up as? It is not very soluble in water (unlike candi sugar, or
>sucrose), so I imagine it turns into something quite different by the
>cooking process. As yeast is only capable of fermenting very basic sugars, I
>am more than a little concerned that caramel is unfermentable by yeast. One
>thing I do not want is sweet, sickly, caramel beer.

Caramelization is a general term for one of the three non-enzymic browing
reactions in food. One other NEB reaction we are familiar with is the
Maillard or browning reaction which contributes to flavour, colour and aroma
in the boil. Maillard reactions form between protein peptide/amino acids and
simple sugars
Caramel is formed a number of ways.
A)In malting and brewing caramel is formed by the reaction of sugars with
*each other* in the presence of heat with little or no water. The result is
non fermentable "reducing sugars" and fermentable sugars. pH has some
influence on the outcome mixture but I've not found what.
        1/ The maltster takes a fully modified barley and steeps it in water
and         heats it to sachrification temperatures under pressure to
prevent               drying, literaly mashing it in its husk! The malt is
then heated to             120C+ to caramelise the sugar mix. Different
temperatures give different         results. This "Crystal Malt" is a
controlled way of producing caramel           sweetness, aroma and copper
colour in beer. It comes in various degrees         Lovibond.

        2/ In the kettle there is a boundary layer of fluid adhering to the
        walls. If the boil is not "rolling" (convecting) enough to break that
        layer into turbulent flow and maintain an even temperature of about
        100C, the layer will overheat. This is because heat is carried through
        water mostly by convection. The heat conductivity of still water is
        1/70th that of steel. The boundary layer boils off its water leaving
        sugars to be caramelized. The sugars have much less heat conductivity
        (1/7th)than even water, so they overheat in turn. These scorched
        products become a astringent carbonised mess, a little like burnt toast.
        This is  uncontrolled caramelization!
                Without Turbulent Boil
        heat    |  kettle   |boundary|   wort
        source  |  wall     |layer   |  boiling
       ~800C -> |  ~230C->  |  100C->|  100C
                     Caramel ^here


                With Turbulent Boil
        heat    | kettle    | wort
        source  | wall      | boiling        
        800C->  | ~110C->   | 100C

Solutions to this problem are steam jacketed heat source at 170C,
superheated steam injection, mechanical stirring, or changing the kettle
geometry. 
If the heated surface of the kettle is an inverted cone (opposite to a
fermenter) or a simple 45 degree slope, then the rising bubbles join others
above them and then the bigger bubbles rise faster creating a turbulent
current across the heated surface. This design is used commercially to
create "rolling" boils with less energy input. 
   
B)Caramel as a commercial colourant is prepared by heating *sugars* (plural)
under pressure in the presence of ammonia. It is dissolved as a powder before
fermentation. It is widly used to colour whiskey.
During fermentation caramel will yield an extract of about 66% (De Clerk)and
will contribute to sweet palate and aroma. 

Because it has low flavour and colour thresholds, I believe it is best
created outside the mash tun and kettle. Colouring manufacturers and
maltsters (crystal malt and cara-pils are caramelised) use much more
controlled conditions and produce a more consistent smoother result.
 Andy's experiments will probably produce a lighter result than malt. I
imagine that a sugar filled container inside a water half-filled pressure
cooker would produce a consistent caramelization temperature. Time and the
sugar mix will be useful variables, a little acetic acid will smooth it I think.

Charlie  (Brisbane, Australia)


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 07:14:08 -0500 (EST)
From: FLATTER at RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu
Subject: Brewferm Ambiorix information

Yesterday I started a batch of Ambiorix from a Brewferm extract kit.  Magazine
advertisements say it tastes like the commercial beer of the same name, but I
have never had the pleasure.  I've enjoyed all the other Brewferm kits so
far, and I found it at a good price.  I'd just like a better idea of what to
expect.  Can anyone out there provide tasting notes, AHA style, or other notes?
I already have projected color, OG/FG, and %alc from the add.

Neil.Flatter at Rose-Hulman.Edu
"Aren't you glad we don't get all the government we pay for?"

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Date: 28 Nov 1995 05:33:05 PST
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com>
Subject: pombe/free fridge


From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To:  OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject:  pombe/free fridge
Date: 1995-11-28 07:19
Priority:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> The pombe fermentation was foul, the worst sulfur smell I ever had. After
> a long time in secondary, the beer was bottled with still some sulfur
> evident in the nose, which never disappeared. The resulting brew was
> uninteresting: very dry, very thin.

i'll bite... what's pombe?

> I have recently had the good fortune to purchase a brewery/primary
residence.
> As an added bonus (besides the bar in the basement and 2nd gas stove in
the
> basement) I was left with an old fridge.  When I opened it for the first
> time a lovely aroma wafted through the basement...
> Anyone have any helpful hints to get rid of the odor?

try a healthy dose of dioxin, or perhaps botulism. i hear they kill
everything.

wade wallinger, brewing contraband on the ms gulf coast


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:21:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: Delano Dugarm 36478 <ADUGARM at worldbank.org>
Subject: Celebration Ale - IPA recipe

Tim Fields writes asking about Celebration Ale availability on 
the East Coast.  When I first heard about this I called Sierra 
Nevada and learned that due to excess demand for their regular 
line and delays in a major expansion, they were cutting back on 
production of seasonals, and restricting distribution of them.  
Bummer.  All is not lost, though.  In the DC area there is Old 
Dominion's Tupper's Hop Pocket, and I've heard good things about 
Catamount's Christmas ale.  
	But why buy when you can brew it yourself?  Below is the 
latest iteration of my IPA, with which I've won at least a dozen 
ribbons and a couple of BOS.  If I can do this well with my 
sloppy techniques and aged zapap lauter tun, think what you can 
do!  (Note: the grain bill assumes 25 points per pound.)

                          Columbian IPA

Grain Bill

12 lbs Briess 2 row
1 lb DWC Munich
1 lb DWC Caravienne
1/2 lb Gambrinus Honey Malt
1/2 lb DWC Biscuit

Mashed at 158 for 60 min., mashout at 168 for 10 min.

Hops

2 oz Columbus (9.5%) 60 min.
 .5 oz Columbus (9.5%) 15 min.
 .5 oz Cascade (5.5%) 15 min.
 .5 oz Columbus (9.5%) 0 min.
 .5 oz Cascade (5.5%) 0 min.
1 oz Cascade (5.5%) dry hop

Ferment with WYeast 1056 at 60 F (ambient)

OG 1064
FG 1018

Notes:  1) Be sure to aerate the wort well.  
	2) Columbus can be replaced by Centennial, but Columbus 
gives an especially grotesque, tasty oily hoppiness.  I guess you 
could use Chinook, but I've hardly used that hop.  If you keg, 
consider cask hopping instead of dry hopping.
	3) I've used other ale yeasts, but have not been as happy 
as with Chico yeast: the fermentation products of other yeasts 
interfere with the hops hammering your tastebuds.  I ferment cool 
to keep the beer as clean tasting as possible.  Al Korzonas 
writes that this yeast tends to shut down when cooled below 60 F.  
This has not been my experience, but I'm measuring the ambient 
temperature, not the temperature of the fermenting wort.

Delano "Bitter Husk of a Man" DuGarm
adugarm at worldbank.org
Arlington, VA

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 09:32:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Kostas Daskalakis <KDaskalakis at rdc.noaa.gov>
Subject: PET bottles, O2 permeability

I would also agree with Philip Gravel's and Robert Hett's 
explanation  for oxygen diffusion into PET bottles. RH also
attempted to give an answer about the kinetics. To my opinion
this will mainly depend on the thickness, type, and degree of 
polymerization of the material and O2 pressure differential.

Years ago I looked at the diffusion rate of O2 into deoxygenated, 
distilled water inside low-density polyethylene 100 ml (thin-
wall) bottles, used by many laboratories. To my surprise water 
was fully saturated with O2 in just 2 days. While thicker walls 
will decrease the diffusion rate, I just don't want to have this 
headache.

Kostas

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 09:42:59 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com>
Subject: Re:Oxygen permeation

A>Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:24:25 -0600 (CST)
>From: "Philip Gravel" <pgravel at mcs.com>
>Subject: Oxygen permeation
>
>===> Dr. Larry Allen asks about O2 PET permeation:
>
>> >It's the other way around.  A lot of CO2 won't leak out, 
>> >but O2 will leak in.
>> 
>> Now, how does THAT work??  If the inside of the bottle is under that kind of
>> pressure from the CO2, how can O2 permeate it??  I don't get it.  It seems
>> to me that if the bottle is pressurized (and I've felt PET bottles, and
>> they're like rock), then no gas could get in.  Please explain...
>> 
>> Doc. 
>
 .
>
>As counter intuitive as it might seem, it matters not what the pressure
>of any other gas in the bottle is.  It is entirely dependent of pressure
>differential of the individual gases.
>
The mechanism here is diffusion.   There is some probability that an oxygen
molecule will cross the PET barrier, either going in or going out. Since
there is more oxygen outside the bottle than inside the bottle, more
molecules go in.
Oxygen will diffuse in until the probability of an oxygen molecule entering
the bottle equals the probability of an oxygen molecule leaving the bottle.
This argument is equivalent to the partial pressure argument.  
Bob McCowan
bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:04:31 -0500 (EST)
From: rll at tanis.cptech.com (Robert L. Lamothe)
Subject: Re: Old fridge smells

> From: Guy Mason <guy at opus.matrixnet.com>
>All Hail the Collective,

>I have recently had the good fortune to purchase a brewery/primary residence.
>As an added bonus (besides the bar in the basement and 2nd gas stove in the
>basement) I was left with an old fridge.  When I opened it for the first
>time a lovely aroma wafted through the basement.  After a heavy duty scrubbing
>with pinesol then bleach (including the drip tray) the smell will not leave.
>Baking soda has not helped.  This is not a mild odor, literally your eyes
>water.  Anyone have any helpful hints to get rid of the odor?

>Thanks in advance.

	Get rid of the fridge.  Seriously, from the sounds of things the odor
has gotten past the fridge lining and embedded itself into the insulation.
You'll never get rid of it without tearing the whole thing apart and replacing
what you can't clean.  Used fridges can be had from $50 to $100 so I don't 
think it'd be worth trying to save this one.

						-Bob
- -- 
* Robert L. Lamothe                           Corporate Technologies Inc.     *
* Systems Engineer                            100 foot of John st.            *
* (508)459-2420                               Lowell MA 01852                 *
* rll at cptech.com							      *
*                                                                             *
* "All I ask of life is a constant and exaggerated sense of my own            *
*  importance."								      *

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:03:46 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Sam Adams (arg).


>From the "Homebrew Digest Policy Statement" I get everytime I resubscribe 
after my mailhost goes down: 

> The digest is not moderated, edited
> or censored in (hardly) any way, and so the overriding guideline for
> content is *constructiveness*.  Simply put, if you have something
> constructive to say, then it is welcome, otherwise it is not.

I think there is a place for the Sam Adams mega-thread here, but I think 
many of us (myself included) have lost sight of trying to keep it constructive.
Before you hit that send button, ask yourself "how is this going to improve
other subscriber's beermaking or beerdrinking experiences?".  

That being said, I can't help but reply to Brian Dulisse's recent comments 
about Fritz Maytag and Jim Koch.

>  because fritz maytag has a bunch of lawyers who are every bit as litigious 
> as jim koch's...
> again, i'm not knocking maytag for this.  what he's doing is certainly 
> legal: he's using the rights the law grants him. 
 ...
> koch is taking full advantage of what the law 
> allows him to do, and that's what he's getting knocked for.  what's good for 
> the goose . . .

Just because it's legal don't make it right.  Seriously, I don't know all the
details on Maytag's and Koch's assorted litigations, but I do know that either
through carelessness or bad PR (same thing?), I have gotten the very clear
impression that Jim Koch cares more about profits than beer.  

Of course, if you don't sell your beer, you can't make a living making it.
Maytag knows that.  And, maybe he and Koch are more alike than we think.  
Nonetheless, I get the distinct impression, from tasting, marketing, and 
new reports, that Maytag is _making money in order to make beer_, whereas Koch
is _making beer in order to make money_.  

How is this going to help you on your next batch of homebrew?  I'm not sure,
maybe just be glad that a few extra pennies per bottle isn't going to bother 
you when you're formulating your next recipe.  How will this help your 
beermaking?  Well, I think you'll get better beer, at least in the long run,
from someone who puts quality on a higher priority than profits.  And, if my
impressions are wrong about Maytag or Koch, maybe posting this will allow 
someone the chance to correct me, and improve all our lives.

Sorry this is so long,

 -Russell

ps.  For info on the infamous "I know Russell Mast T-shirts" send e-mail to
me at rmast at fnbc.com.

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 07:59:33 PST
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: Boiled kegs

>>>>> "Mike" == Michael A Owings <mikey at waste.com> writes:

Mike> Is boiling water a viable means of sanitizing cornelius kegs?  I
Mike> have been pouring a couple of quarts of boiling water and
Mike> sloshing in my cornys between the last few batches, and haven't
Mike> yet had an infection problem.  The keg seems to get plenty hot
Mike> and stay that way for a while, with some significant pressure
Mike> built up inside from the steam (probably not autoclave pressure,
Mike> tho).  Of course, I've had no prior infections in these kegs,
Mike> just clean beer, so they're pretty sanitary at the outset.

I truly don't believe this is adequate.  Do you force water out of all
the QD fittings?  Even if you do, boiling water is not sufficient.
Boiling *in* water for a prolonged period of time is, but just adding
boiling water is not.

Mike> So does the collective deem this a good way to sanitize kegs?
Mike> Or am I courting disaster?  Could this damage (melt, deform)
Mike> soft rubber o-rings?  A search of back issues of the HBD reveals
Mike> at least one comment to this effect. Any other opinions?  

I don't think there is too much danger of melting things, but it is
possible

Mike> Hey, it sure is cheaper than Idophor....

I don't know why people get the idea that Iodophor is expensive.  All
they have to do is buy it right and use it right and it is dirt
cheap.  First, don't buy it in a homebrew store.  If you have a
business, or know anyone who does, buy it by the gallon from a
restaurant or bar supply company.  It costs me $22 per gallon, or if
you can go together with some other people, a case of 6 gallons will
cost about $15 per gallon.  So much for initial high cost.

OK, so you can't buy it by the gallon.  It is still cheap to use if
you use it right.  I use 6cc per gallon.  I mix up 5 gallons, which
uses 30 cc or about 2 oz.  I use it and then pour it back into a corny
keg for storage.  About every 3 months or so, I add another 6 cc and
top it up with a gallon of water to make up for inevitable losses.
Another reader Emailed me how he uses several corny kegs in series and
transfers sterile water and iodophor in a series so he puts a clean
unsanitary keg at the end of the line, forces the sterile water from
the first keg into the second keg which holds iodophor, which forces
the iodophor into the empty keg.  He then takes the first keg off the
line and it is empty and purged with CO2.  Not a drop of iodophor
lost.

If you keep an iodophor solution sealed up in a corny keg, it will
last indefinitely.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:58:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Bickham <bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium announcement

Announcing the	second Spirit of Belgium Homebrew Competition
to be held in  Arlington, Virginia, February 10, 1996

This is your official invitation to participate in the Spirit of Belgium 
Homebrew Competition.  In November of 1994, BURP was proud to sponsor the 
first homebrew competition that focused entirely on Belgian beer styles.  
This competition was held in conjunction with a conference that provided 
technical coverage of Belgian beer styles and how to brew them, as well as 
giving the opportunity for participants to experience the rich cultural 
history associated with Belgian beer and brewing.  Although the conference 
will not be held this year, we encourage you to keep the Spirit of Belgium 
alive by participating as an entrant, judge or steward in this BJCP 
recognized competition.

The Spirit of Belgium Homebrew Competition offers entrants a chance to 
compete with other homebrewers of Belgian-style beers and to gain some 
valuable feedback from panels consisting of judges in the Beer Judge 
Certification Program (BJCP).  As many of you know, the quality of the 
judging varies widely in the Belgian categories of local, regional and even 
national homebrew competitions.  The goal of this special competition is to 
provide an opportunity for homebrewer to have their beers evaluated by judges 
who are not only ranked within the BJCP, but also recognized for their 
knowledge of Belgian beer styles.  

The judging will be hard work, so we have planned a few activities to entice 
BURP members and out of town judges to participate.  On the Friday evening 
before the competition, BJCP National judge Tim Artz will conduct a tasting 
of commercially available Belgian beers representing several different 
styles.  The competition will begin on Saturday morning and conclude with 
the Best of Show judging in the late afternoon.  All participants and BURP 
members are then invited to attend a banquet and awards ceremony that will 
feature authentic Belgian cuisine that will be prepared (and consumed) with 
Belgian brews.  There are a limited  number of spaces for both the tasting 
and the banquet, so reservations will be accepted on a first come, first 
served basis.  Finally, those with the energy will easily to able to find a 
BURP member to guide them to their favorite brewpub or beer bar in the 
Arlington/Washington area.  More details about the competition and banquet 
will be given upon registration.

For entry forms or registration information (specify which), send e-mail to
Scott Bickham at bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil.

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 08:16:37 -0800
From: Kris Thomas Messenger <kmesseng at slonet.org>
Subject: Wine making report

Recently, "Doug Geiss" <usfmckge at ibmmail.com> wrote on: Subject: Cornelius
Dispenser Conversion                                   
                                                                             
>I recently bought a used Coke Fountain Machine (made by Cornelius) with        
>4 tappers, and was wondering if anyone has converted one of these to           
>dispensing beer?  Of course the kegs are the same, but as I recall             
>from using the Fountain machines in the past, the syrup and CO2 are            
>combined with water to make the finished soda pop.  Is there a way             
>to bypass this feature on 3 of the 4 tappers, while still maintaining          
>one working taper for coke dispensing?                                         

* * * * W A R N I N G ! ! ! * * * * D A N G E R * * * * D A N G E R * * * * * 

DON'T DO THIS CONVERSION! IT COULD BE VERY DANGEROUS! You propose to set up
a soda fountain dispenser with three of the four spigots dispensing beer and
one still dispensing soda. Think, man, think! What if during a moment of
distraction, you go for a beer and by accident, fill your mug with coke
instead? And further still, you don't notice it until you have actually
SWALLOWED some? I hope I don't have to explain any further.


New topic: Wine making digest request: So far, I have received answers from
8 or 10 people. The consensus is: "I don't know of one but if you hear about
it, email me!"

I'll wait for another few days and see if anything else turns up. One
courageous individual suggested he might be able to get some room on a
server to set up one; I'll contact him in a bit. Until then, keep on
squeezin them grapes!

Brew early and brew often!

- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Messenger, Los Osos, California, USA *** kmesseng at slonet.org
- ----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 12:07:51 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com>
Subject: Inside Cooking

At 01:00 AM 11/24/95 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>HOMEBREW Digest #1892		             Fri 24 November 1995
>
>
>	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
>		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
>
>
>Contents:
>  Manifold Fluid Dynamics (John Palmer)
>  Thanks / Fitting source (claytonj)
>  Draining (krkoupa)
>  tire valve carbonators (Charles Wettergreen)
>  O2 PET permeation ("Dr. Larry Allen")
>  Conversion check (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)
>  1995 THIRSTY Results (Wolfe)
>  malt mill (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
>  Competition Announcement (Alan Folsom)
>  Electric vs Gas vs Propane (Denis Barsalo)
>  (no subject) (Ken Johnsen)
>  Brita pH/Yeast (A. J. deLange)
>  Re: myces = fungus (Richard Seyler)
>  Freezing yeast/DMS and aeration/allgrain water/yeast when priming (Algis
R Korzonas)
>  More forced carbonation vs. natural. (Mark E. and Diane Stull)
>  Propane alternatives ("Tomlinson, James")
>  re: Philmill, SA Ads (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
>  Airlocks (Norman Pyle)
>  Mead (J. Todd Hoopes)
>  A Vote for Fritz... impeach koch (Ken Schroeder)
>  Well water (MR SCOTT H MOBERG)
>
>
>
>******************************************************************
>* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
>* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
>* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
>* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
>* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
>* 
>* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
>* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
>* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
>******************************************************************
> 
>#################################################################
>#
># YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
># digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
># provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
># many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
># list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
># requests.
>#
>#################################################################
>NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
>
>Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com

>        What about those outdoor cookers everybody is using. Can I use one
>when it's -10F outside? Can they be modified to be used with natural gas?
>(That way I could use it inside)
>
Does converting a cajun cooker to NG really make it safe to use inside?  Is
propane always unsafe?  Seems to me that many rural houses cook with propane
and the inhabitants are not dying of CO poisoning.  

It seems to me that the quality of the burn (complete combustion with
sufficient oxygen to produse CO2 rather than CO) is the issue, and I
wouldn't count on a cajun cooker being safe with NG.

I use a 35 kBTU/Hr ring-type cooker, which gives me a nice blue flame with
yellow tips.  The flame is easy to control and gives me a clean blue flame
with no soot at any pressure. It's a brinkman Country Cooker that I've had
for many years, don't know if they still make it.   I use it in the garage
with the door open.  We're going to put in a CO detector in our house, and
I'll fire up the cooker near the CO detector and see if there's a CO problem
with it.

Bob McCowan
bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 13:37:52 -0500
From: r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com (Russ Brodeur)
Subject: DMS Production

One of the appealing characteristics of continental lagers, IMHO, is the
"corny" or "lagery" flavors.  I believe they are caused by DMS levels 2-3x
the taste threshold.  I find this flavor all but absent from domestic
lagers, including micro-, pico-, etc brews, although I think I can detect
some in Miller's products.

Anyhow, I would like to brew lagers with this characteristic lager flavor,
not just hops & malt.  I read in G. Fix's book that wort cooling rate plays
an important role in residual DMS levels, with increased cooling rate
corresponding to decreased DMS.  

Conventional wisdom seems to lean towards rapid cooling, with CF and
immersion chillers.  This reduces problems with bacterial contamination and
gives a better cold break.

Is there a temperature range where DMS production is high, yet bacterial
contamination etc can still be avoided????  

I am toying with the idea of letting the hot wort sit for some period of
time (1/2 h??) before chilling.  This way, boiling won't remove DMS from the
wort.

Any comments/ suggestions??

Regards.
 
Russ Brodeur r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com RPB3 MS10-13 (508)-236-2157


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:47:02 +0001 (EST)
From: Chuck and Grace Burkins <burkins at world.std.com>
Subject: Stopper trapped in Carboy

Hi all:
When brewing my last batch, I ran into a problem. I aerate by doing the 
carboy shake. I have a solid gum stopper that I use to plug the carboy. 
After bleaching the stopper, I rinsed it under hot water, put it in the 
neck of the carboy and plop! it went right in.  I mean in.  Floating on 
the wort.  The hot water must have made the stopper more flexible.  I 
racked that batch to another fermenter before I pitched the yeast. I then 
had a carboy with a stopper rolling around the bottom. Now I know that 
many of you recommend against rinsing with hot water, but I thought I was 
risking bacterial contamination, not stopper contamination! So does 
anyone know how to remove the $0.79 stopper without breaking the $20.00 
carboy?. I use this carboy as my secondary. I have considered just 
sanitizing the carboy, stopper and all, and using it for my secondary 
anyway, but I am worried about what can be extracted out of a gum stopper 
by 3-5% ethanol. Am I worrying too much? Is My Carboy Ruined ? (IMCR?) 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chuck Burkins
protein chemist, homebrewer
Dedham Mass.
burkins at world.std.com


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 12:57:13 EST
From: "Pat OHanlon" <ohanlon_pat at isus.emc.com>
Subject: re: black and tan

 PPHA9648 at URIACC.URI.EDU wrote:

>      On the subject of black and tans, I was talking to a friend of mine, 
who
>happens to be Irish, and he had an interesting perspective on the whole 
thing.
> He told me that it is suppossed to be Bass and Guiness because Bass is 
english
> and Guiness is Irish.  Floating the Guiness on top of the Bass symbolizes 
the
>Irish overcoming the English.  Apparently, the color of the uniforms of 
the bri
>tish troops occupying Northern Ireland are also black and tan.  Anyhow, 
just a
>little something to think about... :)

 The historical reference is not quite correct. It was indeed the color of 
the British soldiers' uniforms(black jacket, tan kilt) serving in Ireland 
but the period was around WWI just prior to Irish independence/partition. 
With the rest of the British empire entrenched in France, the quality of 
these troops was not high, and they (not surprisingly) have always been 
much maligned by the Irish.

As regards the drink. Floating the Guinness on top of ale is to me a recent 
affectation. Where I grew up, industrial north of England, you would be 
laughed out of the pub if you asked the barman to float the Guinness. I 
have seen black and tan served as: Guinness and bitter or mild or brown ale 
or pale ale. The Guinness could be draft or bottled. Why bother? - well it 
was a slightly cheaper way of drinking Guinness, since the ale cost less 
than the stout. (it was definitely not a political statement)

Regards... Pat O'H. 

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 11:54:40 MST
From: roberts at Rt66.com (Bird)
Subject: Water chemistry problem


Ok water gurus:

I've finally figured out a solution (no pun) to a water problem that I've
had ever since moving into my new house. The water is well water, fairly hard
(10 - 11 grains per gallon ~= 180 ppm total hardness). I have not had
it analyzed further to determine Ca, Mg Mn, SO4, CO3, etc., but I
eventually will. 

The problem is that I was getting an astringent, bitter character over
and beyond the normal, desired hop bitterness. I have finally tracked
it down to the ph of the water. Because I obviously have a lot of CO3,
the ph is running right at 8.5, way high. With my last batch, I
adjusted the ph of the mash water down to 5.2, and the sparge water to
5.7 using lactic acid, and the extra bitter/astringent character is
completely absent in the new beer. I suppose that the high ph was
causing unacceptable amounts of tannens to be leached out during the
mash/sparge. 

So, now that I know to adjust the ph, I'm trying to find a supplier of
food-grade lactic acid (88% aqueous), with near-zero luck. My normal
home brew supplier (The Alewife in Santa Fe, NM) carries small bottles
(~200 ml) of the stuff, but I wish to purchase maybe a gallon. Does
anybody out there know of a source?

Cheers,

- --Doug

- -- 
You know how dumb the average American is?
Just remember that 50% are even dumber than that.

Doug Roberts
roberts at rt66.com

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 14:15:36 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: myces and mycetes

In digest #1889 (I'm still catching up after the holiday):
Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> says:

>Kids, it's time to brush up on your Latin.  
>myces = fungus 

I'm not certain of the origins without consulting a dictionary (etymology
ain't my bag) but this point deserves some clarification. Species names
ending in myces are not all fungi. For example, most of the therapeutic
antibiotics are produced by Actinomycetes, which include Actinomyces and and
Streptomyces species. These are bacteria. Also noteworthy is the fact that
myces is singular and mycetes is plural (like fish and fishes).
    Tracy in Vermont
    aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:48:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Eiron Robb Cudaback <cudaback at wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: Scientists and Yeast Farmers alike

I address this question or set of questions to scientists, primarily 
because (not that this has any real importance to the question) I happen 
to do molecular biology research on wheat, and from time to time I have 
occasion to culture yeast for experimentation.  Here's the question(s):
Let's say that since I have access to all of this culturing technology I 
wanted to grow up some beer strains...first of all, would it really be as 
easy as it seems?  Secondly, with all of this at my fingertips, what 
media or broth would you suggest culturing them in and how much 
(literally the volume of broth) of this media would you use?  Answers to 
these and questions which I carelessly left out would be much appreciated.

E

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 13:45:26 CST
From: jcmas at searle.monsanto.com
Subject: White film on bottles??


     I'm new to homebrewing.  In preparing my bottles, I soaked them in a 
     ammonia-water solution to remove the labels.  The labels came off 
     fairly easily.  However, after several rinses I notice some bottles 
     have a noticeable white film on them.  After further rinsing and 
     airdrying, the film still persists.
     
     Is this a problem??
     
     Thanks!
     
     John Mas

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Date: 28 Nov 95 15:04:53 EST
From: "Gregg A. Howard" <102012.3350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Gas Burners

   While reading all the traffic on various fuels and burners, it occurred to me
that a salvaged NG burner from a water heater might be the basis of a good high
output cooker.  It then occurred to me that since this is such a dandy idea, I'm
probably not the first one to think of it.  Does anyone have any experience with
same?
   Two possible problems: A) It was designed to run wide open and might not work
well at a lower flow rate after boil had been reached.  B) Because the original
unit was vented, clean burning (no CO) would have been a design issue only to
the extent that it supported fuel efficiency.
   If this has already been beaten to death in past digests, please let me know.
Gregg A. Howard   102012.3350 at compuserve.com


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:28:31 -0700 (MST)
From: mcb at abrams.abrams.com (Mark C. Bellefeuille)
Subject:  Propane alternatives


James writes:
> I've been mulling this over for some time. Propane is rather expensive. In
> addition to the propane burners that Walmart carries, they carry a nice 2
> burner Coleman "white-gas" stove($40-45). The cost of white gas is about
> $3/gallon. The newer stoves state they can be run on unleaded gasoline ($
> 1.0069 here). As  soon as Christmas is over, I plan to purchase on of these
> for camping, and brewing.

Check the BTU's before you buy. The propane Coleman puts out 8kBtu per
burner. 16kBut is not enough to get those 8gal enamel on steel pots to a
rolling boil.

I went with the 179k Btu Brinkman. Not a jet engine.
Just a satisfied customer...

Mark 							mcb at abrams.com

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 12:36:11 -0800
From: anonymous-remailer at shell.portal.com
Subject: Howdy!

Hi all!  I've been reading the digest for quite some time but have never been
able to post to it.  I'm trying a remailer to see if it will get there.

My name is Tim.  I'm in Butte, Montana.  I started brewing about 11 or 12 
years ago but fell out of it for 6 or 7 years.  The first and only book on 
homebrewing I used was Dave Lines.  I re-read it over the holidays and still 
managed to distill some wisdom from it.

I am an all-grain brewer, use liquid yeast, and keg.  The last pack of Wyeast 
I bought (American Ale) lasted for 15 batches without going over 3 generations 
old, so I guess I'm frugal. {Unerstatement of the century 8-)}

One of the latest experiments I've dreamed up is making a concentrated mild 
ale and diluting it to 10 gallons in the secondary.  Has anyone tried this 
already.  I don't forsee many problems from a late addition if I preboil and 
cool the dilution water beforehand.

Hope this gets through!

Tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu
Butte, Montana

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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 16:24 CST
From: crosen at wwa.com (C. Rosen)
Subject: Tastelessness

Someone posted a comment to the sham adams thread that budmilloors drinkers
may have a more discriminating palette than us beer snobs in that they can
distinguish between the different brands of corporate swill. Well, lemme
tell ya, I was out in my favorite tavern the other night (Quencher's in
Chicago) and had my friendly bartender give me a glass each of budwiser,
miller, and old style. That's right, a blind taste test. Now I'm not sure
whether I should be proud or ashamed, but I guessed all of them right the
first time. I'll also admit that I wasn't entirely sure on the first sip
whether he even poured 3 different beers. They really tasted
indistinguishable to me, and one of my drinking buddies couldn't tell them
apart at all. So I guess some of us can stoop to their level if we have to,
and as always, no flames please: the remaining "beer" was disposed of
properly...in the sink...

Harlan
**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
*     Harlan Bauer, usually at <blacksab at siu.edu>                    *
*     ...but here <crosen at wwa.com> until Dec.1 or sooner.            *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1896, 11/29/95