HOMEBREW Digest #1898 Fri 01 December 1995

Digest #1897 Digest #1899

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Stinkin' fridge (Guy Mason)
  elevated conditioning temperatures (Peter Maxwell)
  stopper in carboy (Rolland Everitt)
  DMS in Lagers / Carbonate Brewing Water (Rob Reed)
  Re: fritz vs. jim redux (Russell Mast)
  Wyeast 1056 below 63F/Pitch Timing/BTUs/Tastelessness (Algis R Korzonas)
  Homebrew Digest #1894 (GriswoldJ)
  Manifolds, Chest Freezers and thermostats (dludwig)
  Extract Barleywines (Elde)
  New England Beer Weekend? (Hettsmac)
  Re: Propane use inside (Bob McCowan)
  Water/Hemacytometers/Sparge Rates (A. J. deLange)
  Re: Stopper Stuck in Carboy (Demetrius J. Karos )
  Slants (Bob McCowan)
  Propane use / inside cooking (Bob Waterfall)
  Russ' survey, Fritz vs. Jim, well water ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Re: Sanitizing kegs (hollen)
  Saliva Bock ("Michael A. Owings")
  Re: Whiney Taste? (Bird)
  Fritz vs jim : round x (Ken Schroeder)
  Full Sail in Berkeley? (Douglas Thomas)
  New Filter ("Manning Martin MP")
  Good Gott Almighty. (Russell Mast)
  Poor carbonation in PET bottles (Rolland Everitt)
  Typo in my post (Kelly Jones    Intel Portland Technology Development)
  Sound's like a bomb! (Neal Christensen)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 14:51:01 EST From: Guy Mason <guy at opus.matrixnet.com> Subject: Stinkin' fridge Greetings HBDer's, First and most important thanks to all the folks who responded to the stinky fridge post. The responses ranged from give it away and find a used one to wash it out the vanilla extract and water. When I asked the future spousal unit if the drip pan had been cleaned she responded with "What drip pan?". The sucker was encrusted with stuffs (sorry to the technical language) and I think that and drain hole may have been the problem. So now its off to the land of lagers. A summary of ideas follows : 1. Try something acidic, like vinegar. 2. Ancient refrigerators used sulphur dioxide or ammonia as refrigerants check for leaks. 3. Check the drain tube and air it out. 4. Try using fresh coffee grounds. They usually work better than baking soda. 5. Bottle of vanilla extract in a gallon of water, wash and rinse 3 or 4 times. 6. Give it away and get a new used fridge. 7. Clean the door seal. 8. put a little ammonia in the fridge for a few days then air it out 9. The smell is in the insulation, call the manufacturer for advice. 10. 10-20# of charcoal and some baking soda in the closed fridge for a month or so. Thanks again. - -- o o \ / M A T R I X o--o / \ O Guy Mason voice: 203-944-2020x190 o \ / guy at matrixNet.com fax: 203-944-2022 O--O--O / \ MATRIX, 2 Trap Falls Road, Shelton, CT 06484 O O Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 13:29:16 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com> Subject: elevated conditioning temperatures I'd be interested to know if anyone has experience with elevated temperatures after bottling. What would be the effect of, for example, leaving the bottles at 80F immediately after bottling, to speed up carbonation? Sometimes my ales take up to 3 weeks to properly carbonate at 68F. Would the elevated temperatures produce undesired flavors? Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 17:34:58 -0500 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: stopper in carboy To the fellow whose gum stopper got sucked in to his carboy, I would try chilling the carboy thoroughly, then trying to coax the stopper back into the neck by inverting the carboy and shaking it. If this is successful, put the carboy in a warm place (still inverted) and see if the increasing pressure pops the stopper out again. If that fails, just leave it in there and don't worry about it. If you sterilize it, you should not have a problem. Rolland Everitt af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 18:04:36 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: DMS in Lagers / Carbonate Brewing Water Russ Brodeur writes: > One of the appealing characteristics of continental lagers, IMHO, is the > "corny" or "lagery" flavors. I believe they are caused by DMS levels 2-3x > the taste threshold. <snip> > Anyhow, I would like to brew lagers with this characteristic lager flavor, > not just hops & malt. I assume you are using a quality European Lager malt, no? I find that if you want DMS, Durst Pils is the malt for you. In my home brewery, I typically add some pale ale or high-kilned malt to predominantly Durst Pils grain bills in order to dilute final DMS levels. Even with immersion chilling and a 90 minute wort boil, I still get huge DMS levels when I use Durst Pils malt. I have found that one or two decoctions reduces perceived DMS levels. - ----- roberts at Rt66.com (Bird) writes: > The problem is that I was getting an astringent, bitter character over > and beyond the normal, desired hop bitterness. I have finally tracked > it down to the ph of the water. Because I obviously have a lot of CO3, > the ph is running right at 8.5, way high. <snip> > So, now that I know to adjust the ph, I'm trying to find a supplier of > food-grade lactic acid (88% aqueous), with near-zero luck. Doesn't this require a large amount of acid to reduce your mash and sparge water pH from 8.5. I'd be concerned that adding large amounts of any acid are going to show through in the finished beer. Have you considered preboiling your water to remove excess carbonates? If you are unsure about Ca content, I'd add 1.5 tsp. gypsum / 5 gals. and pre-boil all your brewing water for 20 minutes. The carbonate and bicarbonate ions will be precipitated as calcium carbonate (consuming some Ca in the process) and you'll be left with brewing water suitable for pale ales. I have similarly hard water and use this process to decarbonate my pale ale brewing water. For lagers, I use 1/4 - 1/2 tsp. calcium chloride / 5 gals. and treat similarly. BTW, it is not necessary to let your water cool to room temp. to rack off of chalk precipitate. It usually takes about 30 mins for all the chalk to settle out and then you can rack off the top or flow out of your spigoted boiler. Cheers, Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 17:19:06 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Re: fritz vs. jim redux I'll try to be brief. Brian Dulisse attacks a straw man throughout most of his post, not me. Those words don't fit well in my mouth, get them out. <ptooi> I assert there IS a difference between "making beer to make money" and "making money to make beer" and that this difference DOES affect the quality of my life. I assert that there IS such a thing as "quality" which is independant from considerations of "individual taste" difference. I assert that "personal tastes" in beer, like my tastes in music, romance, and movies, are neither random, arbitrary, nor morally-neutral. If you ignore these three important assertions, I certainly will sound like the horse's-ass Brian's post makes me out to be. (In fairness, he and I are sorting things out in private e-mail, and he's not a bad guy at all.) I think most people, at least functionally, agree with the last two assertions, even though they rarely spell them out or question them. I think that arguing the validity of these statments is outrageously time-consuming and NOT appropriate for the HBD. Think about them, though. I love you all. Buy my T-shirts. Drink good beer. Drink GREAT beer. -Russell Mast Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 16:31:19 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Wyeast 1056 below 63F/Pitch Timing/BTUs/Tastelessness Delano writes: >Ferment with WYeast 1056 at 60 F (ambient) and: Al Korzonas >writes that this yeast tends to shut down when cooled below 60 F. >This has not been my experience, but I'm measuring the ambient >temperature, not the temperature of the fermenting wort. If you say it's works for you, then it works for you. I would be interested in the size and vigor of the starter and when you pitched it. If you pitched a very large, very active starter, I can see where the yeast activity would heat the wort enough to keep it above 63F. Some brewers have reported their ferments to be 10 degree F above the ambient temperature! In my case, the room was 57F and I only pitched about 500ml of a starter than was well past the ideal time for pitching. Which brings me to another point. Over the past year or so, I've been pounding my keyboard regarding the ideal time to pitch a starter. I had posted in the past that the highest glycogen level is when the yeast are just beginning to settle. I was doing some research on this last night for a little project of mine and found that the glycogen level begins to drop shortly before sedimentation (settling) begins. Therefore, I must correct myself and say that: the ideal time to pitch a starter is when the starter is still quite active, but just starting to slow down. *** Mark writes: >Check the BTU's before you buy. The propane Coleman puts out 8kBtu per >burner. 16kBut is not enough to get those 8gal enamel on steel pots to a >rolling boil. Not in my experience. I have two 9,000 BTU burners and two 12,000 BTU burners on my kitchen stove (a little bigger than most). The 9,000 BTU burners are indeed not big enough to boil wort in an 8 gallon, enamel- on-steel kettle, but the 12,000 BTU burners are. I do have to keep the cover on partly (maybe 60% closed) to get a rolling boil. *** Tim writes: >making a concentrated mild >ale and diluting it to 10 gallons in the secondary. Has anyone tried this >already? I don't forsee many problems from a late addition if I preboil and >cool the dilution water beforehand. Been there, done that, it tasted great. I also once made 3 gallons of very good bitter from a gallon of barleywine (had to try the new handpump!). One point of note is that the higher gravity ferment increases ester production, but for ales, who's complaining... *** Harlan writes: >had my friendly bartender give me a glass each of budweiser, >miller, and old style. That's right, a blind taste test. That's easy... budweiser has several times the threshold of acetaldehyde, miller is the most neutral of the three and old style smells so much of DMS if I was really blindfolded, I'd say "creamed corn!" Now, I'm not so sure if I could correctly distinguish between coors, miller high life, bud ice ("made with corn, cause it's smoother...") and icehouse (miller, in case you didn't know -- plank road brewery, ha!). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 22:30:21 -0500 From: GriswoldJ at aol.com Subject: Homebrew Digest #1894 Inn HB#1894 >>From: mmoss at PO-Box.McGill.CA >>Subject: uncompress (.Z)/converting SS keg to brewpot A file to decompress these and like files: ftp://ftp.cica.indiana.edu/pub/pc/win3/util/av.zip Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 22:17:28 -0500 From: dludwig at ameritel.net Subject: Manifolds, Chest Freezers and thermostats >From John Palmer's post regarding mash tun manifold area sizing >greater than the inflow. Therefore you need to provide as much inflow area >as practical, and make the valve at the outflow the control for the flow >rate. To this end, the area arguement certainly helps. I agree. I probably shouldn't have posted without first reading the article. Looking forward to getting my hands on it! >settle toward the bottom providing the filter bed. Greg Noonan has a >illustration of this in his book, Brewing Lager Beer. If you stir your mash >during, you will facilitate this alluvial stratification (any soil >scientists in the house? Dave?). My point is that False Bottom or Manifold, >the grainbed will be the same. However, you are probably correct that by No soil scientists here, just a brewhappy Mech Engr. My thought was that the finer particles, like those that would clog the bed of filter husks, would work their way through the larger materials (driven by flow) towards the bottom of the grain bed, compacting the bed and reducing flow. With the manifold, simple settling is disrupted somewhat around the manifold with the possible added flow path along the bottom of the tun. On another subject. I've been looking at some of these cheap 7 and 10 cubic ft chest freezers that are around. The 10 cubic ft model cost about $250 and will hold four 5 gal firestone kegs or a 6.5 gal carboy and two, maybe three kegs. Any problem installing a thermostat and operating one of these at beer temps? I know this has been a popular topic in the not too distant past and I've tried to locate some of those posts in the archives with no luck. Can someone clue me in on what is the thermostat of choice with special consideration towards low cost and where do I get one? And if there is a problem with using a freezer? Private E-mails fine. -Dave in Southern MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 01:08:39 -0500 From: Elde at aol.com Subject: Extract Barleywines Looking for recipes / comments / experiences on extract Barleywines. Derek L. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:39:28 -0500 From: Hettsmac at aol.com Subject: New England Beer Weekend? Folks, Does anyone out there knows a nice weekend getaway in the New England area? What I have in mind is a brewpub, which also offers lodging. I know one place in New Hamshire: The Woodstock Brewing Company in North Woodstock, NH 10 miles south of the old man of the mountain. They even offer a special "Brewer's Weekend", but I can't make it on their dates. Please reply directly to hettsmac at aol.com and I will summarize for the digest. Robert Hett, Hudson, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:14:02 -0500 From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com> Subject: Re: Propane use inside >Subject: Propane use / inside cooking > >Denis Barsalo wrote: >>> What about those outdoor cookers everybody is using. Can I use one >>>when it's -10F outside? Can they be modified to be used with natural gas? >>>(That way I could use it inside) >Then Bob McCowan wrote: >>Does converting a cajun cooker to NG really make it safe to use inside? Is >>propane always unsafe? Seems to me that many rural houses cook with propane >>and the inhabitants are not dying of CO poisoning. > > The problem as I understand it is not a CO issue but more the fact >that propane is heavier than air. Any slight leak or unburned fuel will >collect in the basement of your house. Sooner or later, an open flame will >ingnite it and then *BOOM*! > >Denis Barsalo Propane that I buy has a very obnoxious odor - added so that you can smell any leaks. Standard procedure is to use a soap solution around all connections to detect any slight leaks. Use in a garage with the door open somewhat should allow dense gases to get out. Certainly storing propane cylinders inside is a *really* bad idea. Are all components of natural gas less dense than air - methane/ethane? I has always assumed that NG was a mix of gases. Is the relative safety of NG due to the density or to the use of hard plumbing? If this is the case a flexible hose to a cooker might not be a safe thing. These are interesting questions as we ponder the safety of our procedures. Bob McCowan bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:23:56 -0500 From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Water/Hemacytometers/Sparge Rates Jeffrey Collins wondered why he came up short on wort in #1897: There are lots of things which can cause this. Any recipe which says to mash with a particular amount of water, sparge with a particular amount of water and boil for a particular length of time to get a specified amount of wort at a specified gravity is only going to give those results if the equipment and procedures are exactly those of the person who formulated the recipe . Factors such as the nature of the grind and the conversion and lautering efficiencies will effect the amount of sugar collected with a given amount of sparge water and the amount of sparge water retained by the grain at the point at which collection is terminated. The boil nominally causes a loss of 10%/hr but the actual loss obviously depends on the vigor of the boil and the shape of the kettle. Finally some wort is retained by the hops. The advice here is not to worry too much about hitting the recipe's numbers. Dough in with enough water to give mash of the proper stiffness. Sparge until runoff pH reaches 6 or runoff gravity about 2 P whichever comes first. Check the gravity in the kettle before and towards the end of the boil and add as much water as is neceseeary or lengthen the boil as necessary to hit the target volume and gravity at the end of the boil. In doing this make allowance for any water you will use to sparge the hops. With some experience you will develop numbers for your setup and procedures which will help you to predict final brew length more accurately. In the same number Rich Gibson asked about estimating yeast cell counts to determine when to bottle: The fancy slide is called a "hemacytometer" because of its traditional use in counting blood cells. They are still made a (must be for the 3rd world or for training techs since blood counts are now done in high $ automated machines) and sell for a little over $100 if memory serves me. Their big value is in being able to determine whether a wort has been pitched with enough yeast (1 million cells per millilitre per degree Plato is the rule of thumb). For purposes of determining when to bottle I would think that perceived clarity of a test jar full of the beer would be sufficient. Conversely one ought to be able to eventually come up with a subjective impression of cell density by placing a drop of beer on a slide and floating a cover slip on it. The hemacytometer has supports which hold the cover slip at a fixed height (0.1mm) above the slide so that a given area encloses a given volume of beer hence the cell/ml can be determined. In an ordinary slide the heigt would be a function of the cover slip weight, the surface tension and density of the beer i.e. quite variable. Nonetheless the subjective impression of "lots of cells and protein globules" or "few cells and protein globules" should be accurate enough for this purpose. Most of the bugs which plague us are plainly visible under 400X magnification if the lighting is right and that is probably where you will have trouble with the garage sale microscope. It is undoubtedly a bright field model in which case a good substage condeser which can be stopped way down is desireable. Make a little low gravity wort and leave it uncovered in the kitchen for a couple of days. Then examine it under your microscope. You should be able to see all kinds of yeast, rods and possibly cocci. Bear in mind that experience helps a lot. At first, in the words of Hercule Poirot, you will "see but not observe". Steve Comella asked about his Tucson water and red winter wheat: This water has got lots of permanent hardness and lots of temporary hardness as well. It is suitable for brewing Burton style ales and not much else. You can get rid of the temporary hardness quite easily but will be left with lots of sodium, a tremendous sulfate load and a fair amount of carbonate alkalinity which will have a major effect on your hops bitterness. Traditional water softeners won't touch the anions so they won't be of much help. Bottled water or an RO unit will be required if you want to do anything which requires soft water (wheat beers, Pilsners, Helles). The red winter wheat is fine for wit beers but is troublesome to mill. Set the mill rollers closer together and prepare for a good workout. Don't try to grind this stuff in a Glatt. The gears will strip. Bruce Taber asks about sparge rates: The slower you go the more efficient the extraction provided that grain bed temperature can be maintained. Tannin extraction is an issue if the sparge pH is allowed to rise above 6. Darryl Richman in "Bock" reports that standard practice is to start at a flow rate of 0.18 gallons/min/square foot and increase it to 0.33 g/m/ft2 over the course of a 3 hour lauter/sparge. He gives numbers for a 16" diameter lauter tun: 0.25 g/m increasing to 0.46 g/m. A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore! ajdel at interramp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 06:15:52 -0800 From: dkaros at ix.netcom.com (Demetrius J. Karos ) Subject: Re: Stopper Stuck in Carboy I purchased a Cork Retriever from Presque Isle Wine Cellars for a similar problem. Their number is 800-488-7492. The Cork Retriever is $5.95 each. I haven't tried it on Carboys but the concept is the same. The cork retriever has 3 long metal rods connected to a handle. At the end of the rods is a metal ring that when pushed down will tighted the rods. This allows the user to pull the cork through the openning. Good Luck. Demetrius Long live the Innerstave and the Crusher/Destemmer. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:22:55 -0500 From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com> Subject: Slants I decided that it would be fun to try some yeast slants, and got some vials and parafilm. I though I'd try gelatin, since it's easily found and inexpensive. I mixed up one packet of Knox gelatin in one cup of boiled wort, filled a bunch of vials, capped them loosely and pressure-cooked at 15 PSI for 20 Min. I slanted them and let them cool and they looked OK. I noticed a bunch of solids that precipitated during the cooling. Is this some protein? Also, when I had some yeast growing, when I loosened the caps the pressure release caused the gelatin to nearly explode and make a mess inside the vial. Being more careful in releasing the pressure slowly helped but did not completely eliminate the problem. Would more gelatin help, or should I go find some agar? Winter temp in the house is around 65F. The cellar is cooler ~55F. Bob McCowan bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:55:20 -0500 (EST) From: waterr at rpi.edu (Bob Waterfall) Subject: Propane use / inside cooking Denis Barsalo said: >The problem as I understand it is not a CO issue but more the fact >that propane is heavier than air. Any slight leak or unburned fuel will >collect in the basement of your house. Sooner or later, an open flame will >ingnite it and then *BOOM*! - ------------------ As an air pollution engineer, I think I can speak with some confidence on this. I certainly agree that indoor use of propane can be dangerous due to the "heavier than air" problem (Natural gas is lighter than air but can collect near the ceiling). However, I wouldn't minimize the hazards of CO buildups from using high BTU cookers with EITHER propane or natural gas. The issue here is poor combustion. If you have a sooty, yellow flame then you are certainly producing a lot of CO. There are a few reasons why these fuels can be used safely for cooking, home heating, dryers, etc. First, the gas piping has (normally) been checked by a gas-fitter to ensure that it is leak-free. Second, stoves are much lower BTU than outdoor cookers. Third, stoves, boilers, water heaters, dryers, etc. are being used within the range of design heat output. No yellow flames, less CO. Fourth, boilers, water heaters, dryers, etc. are vented directly to the outside via chimneys or ducts. A little breeze flowing across the top of a chimney creates suction to pull fresh air into/through the appliance and out the stack. Personally, I have a Cajun cooker that produces a sooty yellow flame when it's turned down for maintaining a boil. I use it either outdoors or in the garage with doors open at both ends. I always check my connections with soap solution as soon as I hook up the tank. I will be getting a CO monitor for the house that I can move to the garage for brew sessions. Call me overly cautious, but excellent beer is not worth dying for. Bob Waterfall <waterr at rpi.edu>, Troy, NY, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 09:59:15 CST From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: Russ' survey, Fritz vs. Jim, well water In Digest #1890: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> sez: >Degrees don't make you smart I'll drink to that. They'll give a degree to just about any fool who wants one! I thought the survey was fairly interesting. The results were about what I would have predicted. I agree, the survey was probably biased towards those with more education, possibly because it was an on-line survey. I also believe that those with more education would be more likely to respond (boasting, you know). Degrees don't make you smart, but beer does (well, at least it made BUD wiser). Sorry for the silly pun, I couldn't resist. In Digest #1892: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder) sez: >Here is the part that gets me, he does it HONESTLY, and many times without >financial gain (or law suites) (try both of those koch). I believe Fritz Maytag claims the trademark "steam" and enforces it. If anyone tried selling "steam" beer they'd be sued by Maytag just as anyone selling Sam Houston or Ben Franklin beer would be sued by Jim Koch. I don't see how this is any different from Koch claiming his trademarks. Well OK, maybe Koch goes further in claiming a LOT more names. Either way, they're both trying to make a profit and protect their interests. It's all legal, BTW. and HYMT59A at prodigy.com (MR SCOTT H MOBERG) sez: In response to HBD #1886, where JAWeld at aol.com says: >>In the HBD from 11/14/95, Phil.finkle ask if it is necessary to boil >>well water. I would have to say yes, it is necessary. For the same >>reason you boil water before feeding to newborn infants. You should boil all >>water to remove the chance of bacterial infection. And after all, isn't a >>batch of brew as helpless as a baby?? I would be especially careful of well >>water, which may or may not be chlorinated. I think these are good points, but Scott doesn't. >I have to disagree with two points. I have made both extract and all >grain using unboiled well water, and all four of my kids from infants >on up have drank unboiled well water. In fact, newborns have great >immune systems, especially if breast fed, and well water, once >checked for E. Coliform, is very safe and relatively bacteria free. >(of course any water may have other contaminants such as fertilizer >byproducts, metals, etc.) There are also different types of wells. I >would normally prefer a drilled well (75 - 200 Ft deep) that taps an >aquifier as opposed to a "point", that may only be 10 ft deep and >utilizes surface water runoff. I have never had a problem with >bacteria infections in any of my batches, and have never worried >about tap water contributing to contamination. I also prefer the >taste of my well water to most municipal water systems because I >don't like chlorine flavored water. Anybody ever experience bacterial >problems directly attributable to use of well water? I included the full text above because I think there are several critical issues here. First, infants do not "have great immune systems", whether they're breast fed or not. In fact, one reason breast feeding is good is that the mother's milk provides antibodies which the baby doesn't have the ability to produce. Infants are highly susceptible to infection, and can essentially be considered to be immunologically compromised. This is why there are very strict standards for the microbiological quality of baby formulas and foods. Secondly, testing a well once doesn't mean it won't be contaminated in the future. It's best to test at least once annually. While deep wells tend to be "cleaner", this is not always the case. My water comes from a spring, which is generally considered to be the best you can get because the source is very deep down below the aquifer. This fall, torrential rains caused some surface disturbances and surface water began mixing with our spring water. Suddenly one day my water was brown. Since my neighbors have cows, horses, etc., I was concerned about this. You wouldn't believe the stinky critters I've cultured from this water. The point is, the quality of well water can change dramatically within a very short time. If you don't do full volume wort boils and instead top off with cold water after boiling the wort, it's best to top of with pre-boiled water, particularly if it hasn't been treated (i.e. at the municipal plant). Well water can be great, but since nobody else is monitoring it's quality, you need to do this yourself and should be aware that its quality can change literally overnight. Tracy in Vermont aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 07:16:16 PST From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Re: Sanitizing kegs >>>>> "Scott" == Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at aisf.com> writes: Scott> Dion says in HBD #1896: Dion> Mike> Is boiling water a viable means of sanitizing cornelius kegs? Dion> Dion> I truly don't believe this is adequate. Do you force water out of all Dion> the QD fittings? Even if you do, boiling water is not sufficient. Dion> Boiling *in* water for a prolonged period of time is, but just adding Dion> boiling water is not. Dion> Mike> Hey, it sure is cheaper than Idophor.... Dion> Dion> I don't know why people get the idea that Iodophor is expensive. Dion> ... It costs me $22 per gallon, ... Scott> A while ago, Dion was asking about test strips to try to gauge Scott> the effectiveness of old iodophor solution. That is, he didn't Scott> believe that the mere presence of color meant the solution was Scott> still viable. Dion, did you convince yourself that if it still Scott> has color it still has value? If so, what convinced you? The Scott> kegs-in-series trick sounds like a good one, but long-term Scott> viability concerns me. Since people may have missed my report, I will re-iterate. I found test strips, filled a keg with 25ppm iodophor and let it sit for 6 weeks, testing every few days. Within the ability of the test papers, there was no measurable change in concentration. I have now been using the same iodophor for over 6 months and all I have to do is to add a little extra and some water to top up the volume due to losses when transferring. With what I have seen so far and the private Email I have gotten from another reader, iodophor will be effective indefinitely when used in this manner and kept closed up in a keg. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen at vigra.com Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:35:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Michael A. Owings" <mikey at waste.com> Subject: Saliva Bock > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:41:26 +0100 (MET) > From: Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier at abc.se> > Subject: ultracontaminated beer/homebrewers in Oslo? [Stuff about experimental contamination deleted] > opened two of them now, one a pale ale and the other a dark bock. I > can discern almost no difference between these "infected" bottles and > the > other bottles from the same batch. (No smart remarks now about how my > beer in general must taste, please.) The saliva bock does have less ^^^^^^^^^^^ > carbonation than the normal bock and is a little sweeter. Is this an AHA-approved style? If not, shouldn't it be? ============================================================================= Michael Owings Chief of Operations Uncle Leroi's Hazardous Materials Storage and FemtoBrewery New Orleans, LA ============================================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 08:48:04 MST From: roberts at Rt66.com (Bird) Subject: Re: Whiney Taste? >>>>> "Russell" == Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> writes: >> From: Mark Redman <redman at vivid.net> >> I have been an all-grain brewer for a couple of years, and >> still bottle with a corn sugar prime. I recently entered a >> brewing contest, and although I won a couple of third place >> awards, I was counted off for a "whiney" taste attributed to >> corn sugar. Russell> The judges were simply misattributing the off-flavor. Russell> There may well be a winey taste to your beers, but the Russell> amount of corn sugar used in priming is pretty miniscule, Russell> and not enough to cause this flavor. I have to disagree with this. I can _always_ tell by taste when a batch was primed with corn sugar. Even 1/2 cup to prime a 5 gallon batch leaves a winey taste signature that detracts from the beer's quality. It was for this reason that I used DME to prime (back in the olden days when I still carbonated that way...). - --Doug - -- You know how dumb the average American is? Just remember that 50% is (or are) even dumber than that. Doug Roberts roberts at rt66.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 07:56:50 PST From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder) Subject: Fritz vs jim : round x Brian Dulisse continues the thread which may be going on to long. Brian states that Jim and Fritz are much alike. Maybe. I think what Brian missed is that Fritz claims the name Steam. He resurrected this previously little known style when he turned Anchor into a profit maker. koch, on the other hand, has put a claim in for almost every founder of this country. This list is extensive, but just a few names will help out: Thomas Jefferson, Sam Houston, Ben Franklin and on and on. I don't think koch is responsible for preventing saving these names from being forgotten. Let us not talk about the word Boston...apparently koch feels he owns the name. I always though Boston was a city, not a kingdom. There in is the difference, Fritz lays claim to a product he made profitable to sell. koch lays claim to our forefathers names, and at least one city by my count. koch appears to want to litigate competition out of business. Fritz helps build competition (Sierra Nevada, Mendicino, Mad River, Albion, ect). Fritz seems to have the idea that competition is good, koch thinks comnpetition of any kind must be squashed. Can anybody cite the last litigation for the Steam name brought on by Fritz? I can't. The brewing business, at least at the smaller levels, is more a brotherhood. Brewers help brewers, drink each other's beer, seek advice and judgment on beer and business matters. Fritz plays the game in this mamnner. koch, simply put, violates this brotherhood. This is why he is such an easy target for the rath of most brewers I talk with. We (the HBD community) seem to cheerish "the brotherhood" and are insensed when someone obviously does not want to play this way. Then the guy tries to buy us off with gimmicks like his contest and his stale hops sale. koch is sort of like that in law that doen't fit in the family, and always does something against the family code of ethics, yet claims to be the leader of the family. Does that make this whole thread a family discussion on family issues? Hmmm....... Ken Schroeder Sequoia Brewing (may be my last post on this tired thread...don't count on it) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:04:53 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu> Subject: Full Sail in Berkeley? Just recently, Hart Brewing co applied for permits to build a 30,000 sq ft brewery in Berkeley CA. There were some problems, but now that is all cleared up. I just wanted to know if anyone had heard of when the new brewery was supposed to be coming in and if they will be brewing Full Sail or doing a new set of brews. If anyone has heard about this, please let me know. I am also looking for any wine groups that may be out there in cyberspace. Doug Thomas thomasd at uchastings.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Nov 1995 11:16:54 U From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com> Subject: New Filter Jim Busch writes: >I know a good bit about the >cartridge type filters sold for brewing but are there others that folks >are using? Does anyone know of a plate style filter sold for home >brewers? Listermann Mfg. is importing a Canadian-made pad-type filter which was originally developed for wine making. Known as the "Hexter" (because of its hexagonal shape), it uses two ~8" diameter pads (micron rating unknown, but more than one pore size is reportedly available) in a single-pass arrangement. The beer enters between the two pads and flows outward on each side. Hookups are molded-in hose barbs, and CO2 pressure is used to push from one soda keg to another via the filter. It has not been released to retail stores yet, but samples have been evaluated, and good performance reported. Retail price is expected to be ~$36. Listermann doesn't sell direct, so ask your local retailer. MPM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:50:56 -0600 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Good Gott Almighty. > From: winters at ICD.Teradyne.COM (Ed Winters ) > Subject: Mash tun/Specialty Grains?/Propane > > Mash Tun > I bought a round Gott cooler for my mashing when I began all-grain several > years ago. It was a disaster! I believed I could just simply add boiling > water to increase the temp.... How do you > "cooler" users add heat to the mash? Sorry if this isn't very helpful, but I "just simply add boiling water to increase the temp". I rarely, if ever, have any problems with it. I use a 5 gallon Gott to brew ~5 gallon batches. (I sometimes do have the problem with only 4 gallons left, as someone else posted. Usually, I just try to collect a lot more spargate than I think I need and end up with just enough.) When I brew heavy beers, like 12.5 lbs of grain, it gets pretty crowded in there. But, usually, I do just fine. According to the books I have, protein rests should be done with a thick mash anyway, so I try to add as little water as possible to raise the temp. I usually strike with ~190, figuring it cools off quickly enough. To figure out how much water to add later, I do rough averaging. If I have what looks like 2 gallons of 'mash' at 130, and I want something at 150, I can add two gallons of water at 170, or 1 gallon at 190. (190 + 2*130) / 3 = 150. It's not perfect, but it gives a ballpark estimate. Too cool it, unless I seriously overshoot, I just stir vigorously and let steam escape. And I always keep it covered when I'm not stirring, or checking temp, or otherwise poking around with it. I would have sent this via private e-mail, but then I read poor Ed's obit. Poor fellow apparently keeled over from carbon monoxide poisoning. Pity. Well, maybe someone can gain from this. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:44:50 -0500 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: Poor carbonation in PET bottles As a user of PET bottles (I brew small batches which don't last long), I have been interested in the several posts regarding O2 permeation. I like PET bottles for several reasons, and intend to continue using them within their limitations. I have noticed, however, that my beers are often not very carbonated. Since I make mostly English style ales, this isn't a problem, but I would like to try other styles. My question is this - could O2 seeping into the bottles be sufficient to promote aerobic fermentation during bottle conditioning? As I understand it, in aerobic mode, yeast metabolizes sugar, but does not produce CO2. If the bottle fermentation is partially aerobic, then it seems likely that carbonation would be reduced. Am I way off base? I believe that I have eliminated yeast type, temperature, priming method, and duration of bottle conditioning as causes of the poor-to-moderate carbonation levels I see. Rolland Everitt af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:00:19 -0800 From: Kelly Jones Intel Portland Technology Development <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com> Subject: Typo in my post In a post in HBD 1891, I wrote: >Flow rate equals pressure drop times resistance, and increasing length or decreasing ID increases resistance. What I meant to say was "Flow rate equals pressure drop _divided by_ resistance...". Sorry. Kelly Portland, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:49:16 -0700 From: nealc at selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen) Subject: Sound's like a bomb! Alex provided a summary of responses re: his gushing bottle of beer. One of the responses caused me alarm. The suggestion that the bottles be pasteurized in BOILING (sorry) water does not sound like a safe practice. First, CO2 will come out of solution as the bottles are warmed - thereby increasing the pressure in bottles that are probably already over-pressurized. Second, I don't think boiling is necessary for pasteurization. I don't know the appropriate time and temperature - but the temp. is less than boiling. Third, when you sterilize using the boiling water bath method in home canning, the lids are not sealed - so they can release any pressure building up from the boiling contents. I'm assuming the suggestion was to be applied to sealed bottles - not opened bottles. Hope I didn't misunderstand and blow (no pun) this out of proportion. Dion - I like the tip you mentioned about storing iodophor in cornys and sanitizing them in-line. I'll try that one! Another use for extra cornys that I am trying out is to use them as the pre-chiller on my immersion chiller. I can store one for brewing day in my beer fridge full of water. When I get ready to chill, I can further cool the water in the corny by adding ice cubes (or snow soon). I figure if I hook the contents of this chilled corny in-line with my cooler, I'll get faster initial cooling. My only concern is the possibility of frozen or ice-clogged lines, but no problems so far. Does anyone know the spec.s for German Aiyanger (sp?) pils malt? Neal Christensen Montana: "No stop signs; speed limits; nobody's gonna slow me down!" (AC/DC) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1898, 12/01/95