FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Mmmmmphh Faaammmmmphhh Oooopthhh ("Pat Babcock")
  To replace blow-off, or not? (Michael Pfeuffer)
  RE hydrometer corrections (Tim Fields)
  RE:phil's sparge arm ("Keith Royster")
  Converting a keg the hard way/kinder gentler brewing (Brian Pickerill)
  RIMS heater (DONBREW)
  Gearing up for all grain (Rob Emenecker)
  CF CHILLER (Michael McGuire)
  Compressibility (Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA)
  Re:  IPA & Oak Chips ("David W. Parkin")
  pH margins of error (blacksab)
  SA: Trademarks, Brewing as a Business (Pierre Jelenc)
  dishwasher, OG, etc. ("Bryan L. Gros")
  address change (FMurphy587)
  Fermenting lagers outside (Derrick Pohl)
  beer and bread (HAROLD.SILVERMAN)
  Carbonation (Hugh Graham)
  brewpub raffle (KrisPerez)
  D-K malt/IPAs and oak chips/starter timing/outdoor ferment/stuck stout (Algis R Korzonas)
  Sam Adams Digest (Russell Mast)
  Surplus Center temp controller (Jeff)
  Nitrogen&CO2 70/30? (Eric Marzewski)
  re: Wort Abuse (Steve Alexander)
  posting strange recipes (Douglas Thomas)
  Gott RIMS false bottom ("Jim Youngmeyer")
  Beer calculator-re:decoction vs infusion (Douhan)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 22:29:28 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Mmmmmphh Faaammmmmphhh Oooopthhh

Greetings, Beerlings! Please withhold your lager - I've obviously had 
enough...

Mmmmmphh Faaammmmmphhh Oooopthhh

Or, with foot removed from mouth:

My Famous Oops

If you stand on your head under water, and  cross your eyes while 
inebriated, those Coke kegs do kinda look taller and skinnier. Of 
course, you don't want to actually _tell_ anyone about it...

Thanks to all who helped point me on the path to keg-righteousness. I 
goofed. They are opposite to my post in HBD 1905.

See ya!

Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit)
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/
President, Brew-Master and Chief Taste-Tester 
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery 


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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 22:20:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Michael Pfeuffer <pfeuffer at eden.com>
Subject: To replace blow-off, or not?

Submitted to the collective consciousness:

I've got a 5 gallon batch of Strong Scotch Ale in *very* active
fermentation.  After 24 hours, it's blown off about 2 quarts of bubbles, and
doesn't seem to be letting up.

I'm tempted to try to replace the lost volume with sterile water, but I also
figure I'll just end up lowering the FG.

Thoughts, suggestions, experiences?
- --------------------------------------------------------
Michael & Carlyn -- wq5c & ka5khk -- pfeuffer at eden.com 
Now Brewing:  St. Pat's Strong Scotch Ale
Now Playing:  Foo Fighters
       PGP public key: finger pfeuffer at eden.com
  Win95?  No thanks, Linux is much more interesting...


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Date: 13 Dec 95 06:56:38 EST
From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com>
Subject: RE hydrometer corrections

In #1907, bush at shbf.se (Robert Bush) asks about hydrometer readings:

>It would be a lot easier to have a formula for this. Anyone for maths out 
>there?

Here is the formula I use.  I hope someone will jump in if it is "less 
than pure":

((((Farenheit temp - 60)/10)*.0025)+hydrometer reading).   for example, 
adjusting a reading of 1.050 at 75F:

(((75F - 60)/10)*.0025) + 1.050)
= (((15/10)*.0025)+1.050)
= (1.5*.0025)+1.050
= .00375+1.050
= 1.053 rounded.




"Reeb!"   Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
                      timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)
            74247.551 at compuserve.com (weekends)



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Date:          Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:27:06 +0500 ET
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject:       RE:phil's sparge arm

Recently blacksab at siu.edu asks about Phil's Sparge Arm:

> Has anyone used Phil's rotating sparge arm? Right now I'm using a
> copper spiral and it works fine, but I can't seem to leave well enough
> alone. What I'm wondering is whether the 10-in. diameter model is hefty
> enough for 10-gal batches. Should I get one? Should I make one? Is there
> a better way to get a rotating sparge arm?

I don't have an answer to this, but I do have a related question.  Why use
a rotating spray arm at all?  I have always been under the impression that
you should keep the surface of your grain bed submerged in about an inch
or so of water when sparging.  So trying to evenly distribute the sparge
water on the surface of the grain bed seems sorta pointless, doesn't it? 
 ...Anyone?...Anyone?...Bueller?

Keith Royster - NC DEHNR - Mooresville, NC, USA
Air Quality Engineer I / Assist. Network Mgr.
Voice: (704) 663-1699 x252
  Fax: (704) 663-6040
email: KRoyster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us
etalk: KRoyster at ws21.mro.ehnr.state.nc.us
                             

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Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Converting a keg the hard way/kinder gentler brewing

I finally got my keg top cut out using only a jigsaw, not a sawsall.
Needless to say, the cutout is not completely round, but isn't too bad.  I
burned out 2 grit jigsaw blades in the process.  I still don't have the
spigot installed, but that won't keep me from brewing at least a few
batches.  After cutting out the top, I only had one problem:  The keg was
so beaten up that the bottom was too far out of round to fit on my Brinkman
cooker.  Doh!  I never really considered that too much, since I knew that I
had seen all the burners mentioned on the HBD I figured they would all fit
a keg bottom.  Eventually.

When shopping for the burner, I never really considered the fit to the keg
too much, except that it seemed that it would be sturdier to have a burner
that fit inside the keg bottom to one where the keg merely stood on top.
I'm generally very pleased with the unit, but it's been a major PITA to get
my beaten up converted keg to fit on the Brinkman.  The keg was out of
service because the tap was stripped out, but I guess they could have
retired it for the bottom, too. Anyway, after a few nights of very loud
pounding with a ball peen hamer, it finally fits, but it's still a tight
fit.

- -----

in Today's HBD, Jim Robinson asks:
>So, does anybody really know if we need to be kindlier, gentler
brewers?

It's only important if you are brewing a Busch(tm) clone.  IOW, don't worry
about it.  ;-)



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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:50:37 -0500
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: RIMS heater

   I am now using a "water wizard" water heater element in my RIMS (available
from Grainger).  Last brew session I somehow managed to turn the heater on
after the sparge when the element was dry.  SURPRISE!!!!! The element did NOT
self-destruct.  While I do not recommend running any element dry, I thought
the RIMS users out there would like to know of a product that will not
destroy itself when used by a homebrew besotted idiot.
   Kids, do not try this at home.

Don


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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 10:02:56 PST
From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com>
Subject: Gearing up for all grain

If my SO comes through with the Christmas goodies that I wanted (or even if 
she doesn't) I plan on doing my first all grain batch one weekend this January 
(as long as it is not bitter cold outside.. that's where I boil my wort). 
Because of space limitations I have decided to go with the following: A 10 
gallon SS stockpot to do the mash. This is the same as my boiling pot. I want 
to experiment and do more than single infusion mashes, so the brewpot seemed a 
natural choice (not to mention that I already had made the investment). I do 
not intend on modifying the brewpot, so I will be using a separate lautering 
system (probably something similar to the Listermann[TM] system). Adding heat 
is simple enough, I only have to turn the burner on and watch the temp.

My dilemma is this... I am trying to find something to insulate the pot with. 
It must be easily removable. Ideally, it can remain [wrapped] around the pot 
while it is on my cajun cooker. Any ideas out there???

TIA
 
============================================================================
Rob Emenecker (remenecker at cadmus.com)
Cadmus Journal Services, Inc., Linthicum, Maryland 21090
410-691-6454 (voice) / 410-684-2793 (fax)
Date: 12/13/95  Time: 10:02:56
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are only two things in life that are ever certain... taxes and BEER!"
============================================================================



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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:19:02 -0600
From: mcguire at hvsun40.mdc.com (Michael McGuire)
Subject: CF CHILLER


After the recent postings on CF chillers, I went down to
my profesional plumbing store. They set me up.  We were
able to go from the 3/4 to 3/8 in one fitting(no copper tubing
in between the fittings).  Then I went 3/4 pipe to 3/4 npt.  
They had 3/4 npt to garden hose fittings in male and female(brass).


Hope this helps

Thanks to everyone who responded on my grain questions



Michael



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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 08:41:43 EST
From: Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA at ccmail.eo.ray.com
Subject: Compressibility

I like this forum as the HomeBrew Digest, and don't want it to become the 
thermodynamics digest, but I couldn't let this one go by.

in HBD #1907, SLGibson71 at aol.com writes:

> Finally, liquids are compressable.  Just ask any scuba diver.  A
> defined amount of liquid will change density but not
> concentration.  Notice that I say a defined amount, because for
> example, a cubic foot of water at the bottom of a lake would be
> more dense and more concentrated than a cubic foot at the top
> because there is simply more water molecules packed into the
> cubic foot at depth.

I will concede that everyone is taught in school that liquids are slightly 
compressible, so (theoretically) they are not incompressible.  However, for 
all practical purposes, liquids are simply not compressible.  The amount 
that they actually can be compressed is so small that it is completely 
ignored in virtually all fluid design cases.

Using the lake example as a data point (and with sincere apologies to the 
metric folks), let's assume that the lake is 100 feet deep, and is filled 
with pure, distilled, 50 deg F water.  The pressure at the bottom of the 
lake will be 43.3 psig, which increases the density from 62.4094 lbs/cu-ft 
to 62.4181 lbs/cu-ft, or about 0.01%.

I submit that a scuba diver cannot discern this increase in density.  He 
probably can, however, detect the increase in pressure and possibly the 
increase in density of the air that he breathes (gases are easily 
compressible).


Tom Williams                    Raytheon Engineers & Constructors
twilliams at ccgate.ueci.com       Norcross, Georgia, USA


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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:31:20 -0600
From: "David W. Parkin" <dwparkin at mmm.com>
Subject: Re:  IPA & Oak Chips 


>I've read some IPA descriptions that mention oak, but I have not been 
>able to find any guidance.  A local homebrew supplier, who was 
>happy to sell me some chips, could not provide any guidance on how 
>to use them.
>
>1.  What's the proper quantity to add?
>2.  When/where do you add them?
>3.  Do they require any special sanitation?
>4.  What are they supposed to provide - flavor or clarification?

I have added oak chips to IPA's before an fount it to add a little wood
flavor.  In your reading,  you might have read that the wood used is French
White Oak which in theory has a different tast that our American Red or
White Oak.  The last batch of IPA I brewed,  I used Am. Red Oak strips that
I cut on my table saw.  I boiled them in water for 20 minutes and poured the
water off then added a fist full into the secondary (5 gal.).  This worked
O.K. and gave me a nice oak tast but it took about 20 minutes to get the oak
strips out of the carboy wen it was done.

I have seen discussions about the value of adding oak to the IPA's.  Some
have indicated that the oak casks might have been waxed,  varnished,  or
sealed in some other way as to not allow the beer to even come in contact
with it.  I don't know about that but it sure would be something to have a
real oak cask to store my beer in :)

DWP


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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:01:28 -0600
From: blacksab at siu.edu
Subject: pH margins of error

I've got a bit of a problem: I've got two different brands of pH papers and
am getting consistently different readings from each. Here's what I'm using:

1. Precision Labs, Inc.--pH 4.6-6.2

2. Hydrion Papers--pH 4-9

During a mash, I'm consistently getting the following results with the same
sample:

Mash-in: Precision Labs--pH 4.9; Hydrion Papers--6.0
Sparge Water: Precision Labs--5.8; Hydrion Papers--7.0

What I want to know is how can I take a known pH, like vinegar, dilute it
with distilled water to arrive at a series of pH's to test the papers to
determine which is more accurate? I realize there are buffers for
calibrating meters, but I'd like to avoid the cost if that is possible.
Anyone got any ideas?

TIA,

Harlan


============================================================================

       Harlan Bauer                       ...malt does more than Milton can
    <blacksab at siu.edu>                    To justify God's ways to man.
                                                    
                                                             --A.E. Houseman
============================================================================


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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 10:44:41 EST
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: SA: Trademarks, Brewing as a Business

In HOMEBREW Digest #1908  WALZENBREW at aol.com says:

> SAM ADAMS   BOSTON LAGER
> SAM HOUSTON AUSTIN LAGER
> 
> Pretty similar, eh?  

To which I would add:
 
  SAM SMITH YORKSHIRE LAGER

Now, who was trying to rip off whose reputation?

Pierre

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:28:19 -0800
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu>
Subject: dishwasher, OG, etc.

David Clark writes, in regard to sanitizing in dishwasher
> All I do is run the dishwasher once empty to get out all the soap residue
>from any previous dish washings. Then I put 5 six packs of 12 oz. bottles
>on the top rack and two cases of 22 oz. bottles on the bottom rack. Add a 
>1/2 cup to a 1 cup of bleach and run it on the "pot scrubber-heat dry"

When I had a dishwasher, I did this too, but without the empty run
and without the bleach.  I think the steam and high heat in the dry
stage kills damn near anything that might be in your clean bottles.
- --------------
Alejandro Midence <alex at conline.com> writes
>What exactly is a good starting gravity for a pale ale.  I havew a  
>recipe that says it's 1.040-1.042 but this seems so light to me.  I guess 
>I'm just so used to stouts and bocks with og between the high fifties to 
>seventies.  The finishing gravity for this rec is at 1.008.  Gosh, that's 
>light!!  Am I just imagining it's too light or am I correct? ...

The correct OG is whatever you think is correct.  I routinely shoot for
about 1.055 since I like some body and maltiness to go with the 45IBUs
of hops.  If you like lighter beers (which I guess you don't) then brew
a smaller beer. If you like English bitters, however, you may indeed
want to shoot for 1.040 starting gravity.
As to your recipe, 6 # dried malt extract in a 5 gallon batch will give
you an OG near 1.050.  And I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong,
but you can skip the gypsum in an extract beer.
- --------
EricHale at aol.com wrote:
>I've read some IPA descriptions that mention oak, but I have not been 
>able to find any guidance. 

We discussed this a few weeks back.  Although the original IPAs 
were stored in oak casks for the voyage to India, the oak imparted
no flavor to the beer (for various reasons).  Oak is not a proper
flavor in an IPA or any other beer.  Save your oak chips for a 
chardonnay.

                                                - Bryan
                                                  bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu


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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:52:31 -0500
From: FMurphy587 at aol.com
Subject: address change

If possible please change address to fpmurphy at elite.net

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:06:12 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Fermenting lagers outside

mck at yar.cusa.com (Michael Kerns) asked:

>Second, I'm dying to try doing a lager but live in a tiny apartment with a
>tiny fridge that my spouse insists we use for such incidentals as food.  I
>was wondering if I could put the fermenter on my balcony as the temperature
>here has been in the 40F to 60F range.

Go for it, but wrap up and insulate the carboy(s) as best you can, to
prevent light penetration and to minimize temperature fluctuation.  The
insulation also acts as insurance in case you get a sudden cold snap and
the temperature dips below freezing.  I and a friend have both brewed
several lagers in this fashion with good results.  Also, pitch the yeast
inside at room temperature and don't move it outside until it gets going.

- -----
Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca>
Vancouver, B.C., Canada



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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:54:00 -0500
From: HAROLD.SILVERMAN at BAIN.sprint.com
Subject: beer and bread

        I just wanted to direct people's attention to the Food Section in 
the December 13 edition of the Boston Globe.  In this section is an article 
documenting an interesting relationship between a baker and a brewery in 
Boston.  
        For those of you who are unable to get the Globe (most of you), I 
will summarize.  The Tremont brewing company which specializes in English 
style ales and the Biga bread company which specializes in Italian breads 
moved into the same building, and no they don't share yeast.  (in fact they 
say that Biga uses only wild yeast)  They share grains.  Biga produces a 
bread they call Second Harvest which is maded from wild yeast and spent 
grains from the brewer downstairs.
        This seems like an interesting variation on the thread which has 
been going on about baking bread from beer by-products(is this the proper 
term for spent grains and yeast?).
        The article also includes a recipe (the bread, not the beer) using 
dry yeast rather than wild yeast.  If anybody is interested I may be able 
to send it to them if they write me.

Harold Silverman                            
 
        

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 12:19:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Hugh Graham <hugh at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Carbonation


In HBD 1908 James Giacalone wrote:

> This is not the first time this has happened.  I have taken 
> homebrew to New York with me that has been well carbonated
> here in Ft. Collins (Elevation ~ 5,000 ft) only to find it flat
> when I arrive at sea level.  Can the pressure difference be that
> much to affect the beer?

No way, I do this all the time!  Even with my low carbonated Pale ales.
Seems like you might be getting some kind of cap leak, possibly due to
overboiling the seals and damaging the caps or just a bad capping tool. 
[Can I sell you my old one? :)] Probably the former as you say this was
the first time this has happened.. 

The pressure difference is only about 2.3 psi from here to down there.
Maybe the CO2 leaked away during a plane trip where the pressure is
equivalent to ~10,000 ft altitude? 

Hugh
(Long time lurker, first time poster, Bob)




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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:19:14 -0500
From: KrisPerez at aol.com
Subject: brewpub raffle

Greetings,

I received this from the Real Beer Page Newsletter (or something
I signed up for and forgot all about):
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Subj:	Real Beer Page Mail - December
Date:	95-12-10 07:07:41 EST
From:	newsletter at realbeer.com (Pat Hagerman)
Sender:	rbpmail-owner at realbeer.com
Reply-to:	newsletter at realbeer.com
To:	rbpmail-out at realbeer.com

Welcome to RBPMail 1.7

 .....blah.....blah.....blah............................

They Can't Give It Away: Brewpub Raffle Fizzles.

The owner of Riverwalk Brewery, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., who solicited
worldwide for people to send $100 to enter a raffle to win the brewpub, has
locked the doors and canceled the contest. Not enough entries were received
to cover all the debt he had incurred in the 18 months he owned the brewpub,
Mr. Stasinos told the Miami Herald. He said entry checks were returned to
their senders uncashed. Edward C. Hill Jr., an assistant attorney general in
Tallahassee, Fla., said Florida statutes do not specifically address what
happens if someone advertises a prize for an essay contest and doesn't
deliver. "We were $200,000 short of paying the bills," Stasinos said. "I've
lost everything. I didn't take anything out of there. The bottom line is
we're losing $1,000 a day average." Makes you wonder how the winner
would have turned it around.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember the big to-do about this last summer?
Aren't you glad you didn't enter? And if you did, aren't you glad you didn't
win?

This really emphasizes the point that both marketing and good beer are
essential
to the sucess of a brewpub. I wouldn't be surprised if location didn't play
into
this as well.

Later
Kristine
(KrisPerez at aol.com)


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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 13:52:59 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: D-K malt/IPAs and oak chips/starter timing/outdoor ferment/stuck stout

Jack writes:
>I was getting consistently in the high 20's but never broke the magic 30 
>barrier until I started using D-K Belgian malt.  On the first batch it
>jumped to the low 30's and I have used nothing else since and still get the 
>same yield.

Spelling has never been Jack's strong suit.  What he means is D-C Pils,
which is DeWolf-Cosyns Pils malt.  I typically get 31 to 32 points/lb/gal
and I primarily use DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale malt.

***
Eric writes:
>A local homebrew supplier, who was 
>happy to sell me some chips, could not provide any guidance on how 
>to use them.
>
>1.  What's the proper quantity to add?

In an IPA, NONE.  IPAs are not oaky.  They were shipped in old, European
Oak casks.  European Oak imparts virtually no flavor or aroma even the first
time you use it and after several uses, there's no way it would impart any
flavor.  If you look in old brewing texts you will often see recommendations
that one should NOT use American Oak for casks because it imparts a flavor.
If you plan on making a pLambiek or a Flanders Brown (trying to imitate
Rodenbach Grand Cru) then I would use an ounce of American Oak chips in a
5 gallon batch and add them only for the last week in the fermenter.

>2.  When/where do you add them?

Last week in the fermenter.

>3.  Do they require any special sanitation?

I recommend a quick dip in boiling water -- not too long or you will extract
too much of their character .  Boil two cups of water, take it off the heat,
add the chips, wait 1 minute, pour through sieve to get the chips out.

>4.  What are they supposed to provide - flavor or clarification?

Aroma.  The clarification misconception is probably from the old story that
Anheuser-Busch uses Beachwood chips for clarifying their beer.  I believe
that even Malting and Brewing Science implies this.  That is not the case
at all -- I've just gotten off the phone with A-B and verified this before
posting -- A-B's yeast is quite flocculent... so much so that they need to
rely on the yeast *after* flocculation to finish attenuating the beer;  to
provide more yeast exposure to the beer, they loosely stack beechwood chips
(inch-wide shavings, roughly two feet long) in the aging tanks to give the
yeast a lot of surface area to settle on.  The beechwood adds no flavor.

The only way I could see wood providing clarification is if there was a lot
of protein in the beer and insufficient tannin.  The tannin from the wood
would then be provided to complex with the protein, in effect creating
chill haze when cooled which would be filtered out or lagered for many
months till the chill haze settled on its own.  There is a process by which
clarification is accelerated simply adding tannin powder (same as that
described above) but you have to get it just right -- I don't think we
homebrewers could ever have the means to measure the protein with such
accuracy so as to make this tannin addition method of clarification practical.

>Also, to make an IPA I was planning to take an ale recipe and add a
>little extra (about a pound of DME) and a bunch of hops.  Any suggestions
>about this?

A bunch may be accurate, but not very precise ;^).  I recommend that you
brew up a 1.065 pale wort and add about 70 IBUs of English hops.  Measure
and calculate -- don't guess.  Refer to Jackie Rager's article in the
Hops Special Issue of Zymurgy to determine the proper amount for your
boil gravity and hop Alpha Acid percentage.

***
Mike writes:
>First, I've only recently started using liquid yeast and I'm getting
>conflicting opinions on when to pitch the starter to the wort.  The guy I
>buy my supplies from says do it at the first sign of activity.  Another
>supply store owner told me wait until I see vigorous fermentation and yet a
>third party said to wait until all activity in the starter has ceased.
>What's the story here?

I think that the answer is, unfortunately, none of the above.  The best time
to pitch the starter is when the glycogen level is highest.  For a long time,
I had misinterpreted the article in which I read about this and was telling
everyone that the proper time was to wait till the yeast in the starter has
settled.  I have since figured out that this is a little later than ideal.
The best time to pitch is shortly after high krausen, when the yeast is still
active, but when the activity is beginning to slow down.

Another question Mike had was whether a 40-60F range of temperature is
okay.  If you use lager yeast and insulate the fermenter well, I think
that this range would not be too wide.  The key is keeping the temperature
from dropping suddenly, like putting 70 degree wort and yeast onto a 35
degree F slab of concrete.  The sudden temperature drop could cause the yeast
to go dormant and then you may have trouble reviving them.

***
David asks if his 1.095 wort, which stopped at 1.025, is stuck.

It is not.  This is 74% attenuation and is all that you can expect from
typical yeasts and actually a rather high attenuation for an Imperial
Stout which often has a lot of unfermentables.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:20:20 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Sam Adams Digest

I'm beginning to see the wisdom of splitting the digest....  Seriously, I'll 
try to stop.  Honest.  Just one more.  I can quit anytime I like...

> From: WALZENBREW at aol.com
> Subject: SA: Trademarks, Brewing as a Business

> Homebrewers can afford to brew "for the love of the art or enjoyment" -
> this is what the hobby is all about.  But the minute you take the step
> of selling your beer, you're a business - and if you don't run it as a
> business first you'll most likely fail. 

You seem to know a lot about this, have you failed as a microbrewer?

> Many, many brewpubs & micros have
> failed in the past 10-12 years for just this reason - if your primary
> purpose isn't to make $$$ and a PROFIT selling good beer, for the sake
> of your investors and partners (and yourself) you should stay a
> homebrewer.

First - you're listing two primary purposes.  "Selling good beer" and "making
$$$ profit".  Do you think anyone puts these two in perfect balance?  

Second, and I've taken Greg around the block with this in private and he
still doesn't get it - there's a difference between making enough "$$$"
to stay in business and make a living, and making "$$$ and PROFIT" and getting
fabulously wealthy.  

If being fabulously wealthy is more important to you than making good beer,
I don't believe that you'll make beer that is as good as someone else who 
thinks that good beer is more important than amassing a personal fortune.

There is a difference between "making a living" and "making a killing". 
That difference will often (not always) show in the quality of the product
in question.  

> SAM ADAMS   BOSTON LAGER
> SAM HOUSTON AUSTIN LAGER

If you grew up in Texas, they aren't really very close at all.  If anything,
SA would ride on SH's coat-tails in the area.

After spending a week in private e-mail trying to convince Brian Dulisse that
average consumers really are stupid enough to have their tastes manipulated
by advertisers, I'd like to spend a couple words here trying to convince 
everyone else that very few people are so stupid as to mistake Sam Adams and
Sam Houston.  

> The Austin brewpub that chose the Sam Houston name apparently did so
> with BBC's name in mind. 

I'm pretty skeptical of that claim.  Sam Houston is an important figure in 
Texas history, all kids growing up in Texas have been required to take state
history classes for years, and the beer's made in Austin.  

I think the issues of the legality of anyone's trademark claims and the 
fairness and validity of various trademark laws should take a backseat 
to the issue of whether or not one brewery is trying to squelch competetion 
for the purposes of profit, as opposed to encouraging good beer everywhere 
(while, obviously, trying to make a buck on the side.)

> Likewise, I was informed that Grant's in Yakima used a similar threat to
> prevent Rainier Brewing from using the name "Yakima".  How is this any
> different than trying to protect the name "Boston"?

I say it's not.  Sounds like Grant's is being a turkey about it, and they 
are greatly encouraged to be unfriendly because the outcry over Sam Adams 
ruthless practices was so muted.  Harrumph harrumph, boycott everything. 

 -R

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:37:36 -0500
From: mcnallyg at in83b.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff)
Subject: Surplus Center temp controller


  A while back I bought two Sunne temp controllers from the
Surplus Center ( 800-488-3407 ).  They are listed on page 145
of the 1995 catalog and are item numbers 11-1911 or 11-1912
(BTW, they are now all sold out).  Since the description in
the catalog says "contacts close upon heat rise" I bought them
to use as a fridge (or is that frig <g>) temp controller.
Well it turns out that the catalog was WRONG.  These units are
actually heater controllers (ie. contacts open upon heat rise).
If anyone else bought some of these and found that they did'nt
work properly, I just wanted to let you know that you can
effectively invert the controller outputs using a normally
closed (NC) relay.  In a nutshell, you use the temp controller to
drive the coil on the NC relay and you then use the NC relay
contacts to switch the power to the fridge.  If anyone wants
more details (Radio Shack part #, schematic, etc.) just email
me at the address below.

                             Hoppy brewing,

                             Jeff


==============================================================================

Geoffrey A. McNally                    Phone:  (401) 841-7210 x152
Mechanical Engineer                    Fax:    (401) 841-7250
Launcher Technology & Analysis Branch  email: mcnallyg at in83b.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Naval Undersea Warfare Center
Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2
Newport, RI  02841-1708

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:02:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Marzewski <emarzews at nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: Nitrogen&CO2 70/30?

Eh people,

Will someone who knows the "real deal" on serving and carbonating with 
nitrogen and CO2 PLEASE help me out?  I want to get a nice, what I call, 
"Nitrogen head and pour" (ie: ala Guiness on draft, ect...) I know 
kegging, carbonating and serving with CO2, but there's not enough info 
available on N2/CO2 mixes.  I plan to purchase a premix tank and extra
(high pressure reg?) reg to serve a creamy bitter and stout, but want to 
get it straight on how much carbonation is needed before serving with the 
70/30 mix and do I have to force carbonate with the 70/30 mix instead.  I 
can't believe Guiness just carbonates at a low CO2 rate and serves with a  
N2/Co2 mix, dosen't the N2 take a while to saturate into solution. 
Zymurgy and my mini-library of brewing literature has not had any good or 
enough info about this subject.  I'll summarize so the reply post is 
shorter and to the point.  Please reply to: emarzews at nova.umuc.edu

Cheers and Thanx,

Eric Marzewski  

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:50:12 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: re: Wort Abuse

In Homebrew Digest #1908 (December 13, 1995),
jim_robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com  writes:

>A month or so ago, (sorry, I don't know which HBD) someone 
>commented that a Professional Brewmaster from Belgium told him 
>that wort should only be transferred by gentle means i.e.. 
>gravity or special "low turbulence pumps" lest the final beer 
>suffer from such abuse.  As a proud owner/user of a March MDX 
>powered brew setup, I sure would like to find out if this is a 
>bunch of Bandini.  To make matters worse, I don't use a speed 
>controller on my pump.  I found that an "endless loop" plumbed 
>into the inlet and outlet line, with a gate valve in the loop 
>controls the head pressure really nicely.  Unfortunately, the 
>relief loop probably beats the little wort lipids mercilessly.  
>So, does anybody really know if we need to be kindlier, gentler 
>brewers?
>
>Jim Robinson
>Aliso Viejo CA

Shear forces within the fluid can break proteins.  I don't think this
is generally a problem - EXCEPT that enzymes are proteins too and
excessive shear force will denature them !!  I believe that
centrifugal pumps and large diameter/low flow rate & pressure tubing
was the suggested compromise (sorry, I don't have the reference with
me today).  I believe that I came across this in a book commercial
enzyme manufacture & applications.

If you're not having mash conversion troubles then this situation
probably isn't a problem for you.  You should keep in mind that this
book was written for and about commercial operations where everything
is measured in dollars.  If a process requires 15% more enzyme
addition, or requires 30 minutes additional conversion time the plant
may be unprofitable.  Homebrewers don't have the same constraints, but
be aware of the potential problem.  Your no speed control/gate valve
arrangement may be a pessimal design, particularly if you are using
this in a RIMS. You may need to take additional measures when using
unmalted adjuncts.

Steve Alexander

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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:02:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd at uchastings.edu>
Subject: posting strange recipes





I am posting this to let all who have requested the "Strange beer 
recipes" that sometime I will be posting them.  My biggest problem is 
that I do not have home access to my account.  I will post as many as 
I can over a couple of months.  My second problem is that the book is quite
fragile and cannot travel with me to work, so any recipes I post will first
have to be copied by hand, no photocopying, that is indeed how fragile the 
book is (I think due to the horrible paper used).
Please all, be patient with me and the recipes will eventually come.

Doug Thomas



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Date: 13 Dec 1995 17:42:17 U
From: "Jim Youngmeyer" <youngmeyer at macmail.posc.org>
Subject: Gott RIMS false bottom

Gott RIMS false bottom                                5:35 PM       12/13/95

Dear RIMS gurus,

I have found that the Phil's Phalse Bottom doesn't work in my 10 gallon Gott
RIMS setup.  The outlet connection has too small a diameter, and causes
cavitation when the pump tries to suck into its 5/8 inch inlet port.  I tried
elevating the false bottom by setting it on a jury-rigged circular platform I
made by cutting the first 3 inches off the top of a plastic bucket.  This
allowed the wort to flow directly from the large dead space under the false
bottom through the 1/2 inch plastic NPT close nipple which replaced the
spigot.  It worked OK for my first RIMS batch -- I got a good laminar flow
with no cavitation or bubbles.  However, my second RIMS batch was a disaster!
 The hydrostatic pressure (or the weight of the mash, or both) caused the
false bottom to warp and collapse.  :O  Has anyone figured out a way to rig a
false bottom in a 10 gallon Gott RIMS system which can withstand the pressure
caused by recirculation?  Replies by email would be appreciated. 

******************************************************************
  Jim Youngmeyer
  Houston, Texas                             youngmeyer at posc.org     
******************************************************************


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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:20:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Douhan <gdouhan at wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: Beer calculator-re:decoction vs infusion

	Has anybody out there used THE BEER FORMULA CALCULATOR 1.3 by 
Carlo Fusco. It is a shareware program(formated for excel) that is 
available on the net, sorry I do not have the address( I simply 
typed-beer software-on a search engine and it took me too a place that had a 
few for macs, PC's, UNIX, etc. I have used it a few times and want to know 
what others think about it. I will post the info if appropriate. Thanks

	Thanks to those who personally wrote me about their opinions 
about the decoction vs infuson. There were also some good ones posted on 
the digest. The people who wrote all agreed for the most part that 
it provides a much better malt character without residual sweetness. 
Maybe I'll try it one of these days.

	I have also got to get in on the QUALITY thread-Give it a rest, 
were homebrewers not philosophers. Enjoy your homebrew, the good and the 
bad! 

Greg Douhan
gdouhan at wsunix.wsu.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1910, 12/15/95