FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Have Oxygen-Barrier Bottle Caps Ruined My Barley Wine? (Steven W. Schultz )
  Michigan Brewing Co. ("Edward F Roseman")
  Scottish Ale and #1728 ("Fleming, Kirk Mr.")
  RE:Foaming Beer dchamp HBD1920 (Michael Genito)
  Philmill modification (Bill Countie)
  Suds SW Question (PGent13821)
  Will My Bottles Explode (WMBE)? (W_GLADDEN)
  Motorizing Your MaltMill(tm) (Bill Marks)
  looking for homebrew related clipart (John Herman)
  Heat Evolution Primer (Bob Sutton)
  Re: Gene's flat dull beer (PatrickM50)
  RE: Hot Iodophor ("Pat Babcock")



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date:     Wed, 27 Dec 95 9:06:00 EST
From: Steven W. Schultz <swschult at cbdcom.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Have Oxygen-Barrier Bottle Caps Ruined My Barley Wine?

	Under the theory that the only dumb questions are those not asked,
I humbly submit the following ludicrous problem, suggested cause, and
request for assistance.  It's drivel of course, but this is kind of a slow
time of the year on the HBD, so why not? 

	But, first a bit of background information... 

	I bottled a batch of barley wine 2+ months ago, primed with 1/4
cup priming sugar, and capped using oxygen-absorbing caps.  The brew
carbonated after a few weeks, there was a visible layer of sediment on the
bottom of each bottle, it was drinkable, fair head retention, and I've
been aging a few bottles in my refrigerator ever since.  

	Two nights ago, I opened one and was utterly dismayed when I did
not hear that "pfffttt" sound that signifies carbonation.  The stuff was
as still as could be, and even though the taste was not horrendous, I just
couldn't bring myself to drink flat barley wine. 

	I reasoned that the cap may not have been tight enough, and
resolved not to worry about it.  Well last night, before opening another
bottle, I checked the cap first, and it had a good concave-ish dent to it. 
But alas, the same results:  completely flat beer, fair flavor-- and I
couldn't bring myself to drink it. 

	I KNOW this stuff carbonated before - I tried a few bottles - and
now it is not carbonated at all.  Granted, my refrigerator is a cold one,
but that doesn't explain carbonated beer going totally flat. 

	My theory is that due to the low amount of priming sugar (1/4
cup), the oxygen-absorbing caps may have absorbed more CO2 than this beer
gave off; and that the reason it was not obvious before is, well, I really
don't know... Anyway, I've advanced a theory, and I would appreciate any
comments to help me with the problem, specifically, what caused this, and
what can be done about it? 

Steve Schultz

P.S.  One other item of data, probably not useful, but maybe:  this barley
wine didn't ferment in the normal way, it almost exploded.  I think this
was due to a healthy 1.5 quart yeast starter (Wyeast #1728, Scottish Ale
Yeast) and warm wort temperatures when the yeast was pitched.  Almost two
gallons blew out of the five gallon carboy; I'm glad I was using a 1"
diameter blow-off tube.  I've never seen a fermentation like this before,
and I have brewed barley wine before.  Still, with all that, the taste was
only off a little. 


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:13:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Edward F Roseman" <rosemane at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Michigan Brewing Co.

A new micro-brewery has opened its doors at the Webberville exit off I-96 in
central-southern MI.  Bobby Mason is the brewmaster and is having an open house
on New Year's Day 1996.  He has an excellent hefe-weizen as well as a pale ale
and stout.  His take home product is the Party Pig.  Great Beer! IMHO. ed.


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 08:44:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk Mr." <FLEMINK1 at CISF.AF.MIL>
Subject: Scottish Ale and #1728


Marc Gaspard <mgaspard at mailer.fsu.edu> mentioned long ferments in his
attempt to duplicate Traquaiar House (sp?) Scottish ale:

> My problem seems to be rapid flocculation, ending up with a
> VERY sweet beer, usually a finishing gravity of 1.022-25.

Of course I don't know how his ale compares with the target product,
and I've never even had Traquaiar House ale.  But, based only on
what I've done with about a dozen fairly strong Scottish ales and
on Noonan's book, I'd say your finish gravities are already too low.
I believe his rule of thumb for Scottish ales is fg ~= .33og.

The other aspect of these ales I picked up from Noonan is that
every step of the process is designed to make life hard for the
yeast.  High mash temps (maybe you're mashing too high) combined
with low ferment temps.  I would NOT raise the temp to get the
yeast going--58-62F for a long time is, I believe, the norm.  It's
basically a lagered ale and you should expect a *very* long ferment.

If there is a better source than Noonan on this or if I've misread
the source, I'd like to hear other views.

KRF Colorado Springs

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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:53:29 -0500
From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael Genito)
Subject: RE:Foaming Beer dchamp HBD1920

In HBD1920 dchamp wrote:
***
From: dchamp at esslink.com
Subject: My First Brew!

I just successfully brewed my first batch of homebrew (English Amber 
Ale and it tastes great)! I have to admit, it was one of the easy 
ones (just add water and sugar) but when I added the second batch 
of sugar (corn) just before botteling, the beer started foaming 
up and almost overflowed the sides! Should I have mixed the 
sugar in more slowly? What can I do to prevent this in the 
future? Thanks for any help.
***
When adding corn sugar for bottling, dissolve it first in very hot or
boiling water. For five gallons, you should be using 3/4 - 1 cup corn sugar.
Also - was your beer completely done fermenting? Did you take a hydrometer
reading of the specific gravity? How long did you allow it to ferment before
bottling? Most should be 7 - 10 days.

In any event - congratulations on your first venture! Like most of us, you
are probably very rightfully proud of yourself. Good luck on future brews
and welcome to the club!

Michael A. Genito, Director of Finance, Town of Ramapo
237 Route 59, Suffern, NY 10901
TEL:  914-357-5100 x214   FAX: 914-357-7209


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:25:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Countie <wgcount at husc.harvard.edu>
Subject: Philmill modification

Hello All!
	Has anyone out there modified a Philmill? I just got to the end 
of my patience loading 2 lbs at a time into a cut-up Ram Rod bottle and 
having the grist drift all over the place and the crank handle work its 
way loose. 
	My quick fix was to attach it to a 2x6 board and use a 12" funnel 
(the size that fits the opening of a standard 6 gallon pail). This is not 
the easiest thing to support from just a hole in the wood. I know I need 
more work here, any recommendations? 
	The grist was caught by a 4" to 3" tin pipe reducer, screwed 
into the 2x6 to prevent it from falling into the grist. I cut a 
semicircle to allow for the center shaft to protrude. The down pipe 
fitted into a 4" soil pipe wall adaptor that was bolted to a 5 gallon 
pail lid. to remove the pail, lift the 2x6/mill assembly. The crank 
was reassembled with star washers (not supplied by the manufacturer).
I felt as I had gone this far I would motorize it as well. A 5/16 x 4" 
bolt with the end cut off and a washer/star washer/nut attached to the 
mill shaft worked ok. The electric drill attached to the headless bolt.
I don't know how long my drill will last with this load. 
	I believe that the drill should be running before adding grain to 
avoid locking the motor and overheating the drill.
	Anyone have any suggestions to improve this setup without getting 
rid of the Philmill as I can't buy another one now.

Thanks in advance! 

Bill Countie-Ale Connor-Just tell me where to sit.
e-mail wgcount at husc7.harvard.edu


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:39:02 -0500
From: PGent13821 at aol.com
Subject: Suds SW Question

I'm a newbie all-grainer (recently discovered HBD - it's great) running small
test mashes (two step infusion) to determine efficiency and get some
empirical test data of calculated strike temps. I want to get a "warm fuzzy
feeling" before scale up to 12 gallon batches. 

Question: I'm currently testing Suds S/W ver 4.0a for Windows (no, I'm not
yet registered but do plan on it) and the mash calc's have me confused. Here
are my #'s:

Boil Temp of Water:212F
Grain Starting Temp:55F
Desired Grain Water Ratio: 1quarts/pound
Strike Water: 0.50 gal  at  155F (calculated by Suds)
First Mash Temp: 122F
Second Mash Temp: 152F
Boiling Water to Add: 0.37 gal (calculated by Suds)
Water Absorbed By grain: 0.20 gal
Water evaporated during boil: 0 gal
Wort left in brewpot: 0 gal
Add 1.33 gal of water to yield 2.0 gal of wort (calculated by Suds)

When I added the 0.5 gal  at  155F to my initial 2 lbs. of grain, the temp
stabilized at  140F not 122F. Of course I then checked with Charlie P. in "The
new Complete Joy of Home Brewing" and he says on P. 296 "there will a
temperature drop of 16-18F when a measured amount of water and grain are
combined (at a 1qt/lb ratio)". This seems to agree with my test data.

Am I missing something here? I don't think I screwed up the units anywhere. I
am very happy with the software otherwise. Please straighten me out on this.
Thanks in advance.




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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:11:20 -0500
From: W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US
Subject:  Will My Bottles Explode (WMBE)?

So many questions, so few carboys.

1st:  Thanks to all who responded to the cider fermentation
question.  In my opinion, the comments summarize to be: if you
want to recreate a commercial fermented cider, use a brewing
yeast (usually ale - Whitbread recommended for its clean
"taste").  Several people have used wild yeast - it is very
alcohol tolerant and ferments most all of the sugars => a
finishing gravity below 1 => relatively dry tasting. Some people
will not drink cider fermented with wild yeast due to the
potential for contamination and friends who have gotten ill. 
Ideally the starting gravity is around 1050. Adjuncts can be
added to attain that starting gravity.  Various adjuncts have
different impacts on the final product.

My question follows:

Based on feedback from many and relaxing and having several
homebrews I have accepted the fact that the fermentation temp.
was too low on my pilsner and I bottled prematurely.  I don't
have the notes in front of me, but seem to remember the last
reading I took had it about 10-15 points above the ideal FG (i.e.
it was about 1/2 way to its ideal finishing point).  Will my
bottles explode?  Can they ferment in the bottle without turning
into grenades?  FWIW they are standard 12 oz. returnables. 

They've been "bottled" for 3 1/2 weeks.  I opened one to give it
a try .... FOAM  ... luckily I opened it up over the sink.  From
reading Michael Jackson's book, these beers have a pretty darned
authentic pilsner head to them - a little more realistic than I
was aiming for.  They still taste too sweet/unfermented.  Any
advice re: bottle conditioning (fridge temps, basement ambient
temps etc...).

Thanks to one and all.  Any response is appreciated.  Private
ones should be directed to "W_GLADDEN at MAil.Co.Chester.PA.US"

Bill Gladden


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:46:20 -0700
From: Bill Marks <Bill_Marks at ids.net>
Subject: Motorizing Your MaltMill(tm)

There have been several posts lately regarding motorizing the MaltMill(tm).
The schemes have ranged from pullys and belts to gear head motors.  I just
use a $19.95, single speed, Black and Decker, 3/8", 1200 RPM drill from Home
Depot.  I just removed the handle and chuck up the MM drive shaft.  I grinds
a beautiful crush that appears to just the same as the hand cranked crush.
I'm getting about 32 points per gallon per pound.  I have had the MM for
about 2 years and have rarely been so pleased with a product's quality.
Usual disclaimers.  Just a satisfied customer.

Bill Marks
Portsmouth, RI
Bill_Marks at IDS.NET


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:06:06 -0600 (CST)
From: John Herman <jmherman at gonix.gonix.com>
Subject: looking for homebrew related clipart

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.  I know this is a little off topic 
and probably has been addressed in one of the many hbds that I have not 
had the chance to read yet, but I am looking for good looking clipart 
that I can use in my attempt to make a decent label for my soon to be 
perfected American Pale Ale.  Thanks in advance!

*************************************************************************
* John M. Herman                | Internet:  jmherman at gonix.com         *
*************************************************************************
* Amateur Freelance Programmer With Absolutely No Experience            *
* homebrewing cuz its fun to make your own brew!!!!                     *
*************************************************************************


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 11:57 EST
From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_fdgv-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel at mcimail.com>
Subject: Heat Evolution Primer




Text item: Text_1

Arrrrrgggghhhh !!!

Metabolic heat 101 :-)

>From Wang/Cooney
Heat evolution during fermentation processes is closely related to the
utilization of the carbon and energy source. When the carbon source is being
actively incorporated into the cell mass via growth, typically 40-50% of the
available enthalpy is conserved in the biomass, and the rest is given off as
heat.

When the carbon source is being metabolized for cell maintenance, all of the
enthalpy associated with combustion is released as heat.

If a product (i.e., alcohol) is being formed, the heat evolved per unit of
carbon source metabolized is between the two extremes.

Thus the amount of heat is related to the stoichiometry for growth and product
formation while the rate of heat evolution is proportional to the kinetics of
the process.

Heat evolution (Qf, kcal/liter-hr) has been related to oxygen uptake (Qo,
millimoles/liter-hr) by the following correlation.

Qf = 0.12 * Qo

Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus


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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:20:39 -0500
From: PatrickM50 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Gene's flat dull beer

In a message dated 95-12-27 03:22:47 EST, Gene Rafter writes:

>I brewed a dutch bock beer a few weeks ago and it was fermented 2 weeks 
>in a 6 1/2 gallon glass carboy.  I then bottled it and waited a week to 
>taste test.  It turned out to be very flat and dull tasting.  What should 
>I do?  

Assuming you added priming syrup made from 1/2 - 3/4 cup of corn sugar and
water to your beer in the bottling vessel before bottling, you should just
wait a few more weeks for carbonation to be more complete.  One week is not
quite long enough, though it may seem like an eternity!  As for what you
should do, I would suggest opening one of the many great seasonal brews
available in the stores this time of year.  Happy Holiday!

Pat Maloney (patrickm50 at aol.com)



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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 00:36:41 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: RE: Hot Iodophor

In HBD # 1917,  PatrickM50 at aol.com writes: 

> Also Pat Babcock mentions using "hot, slippery Iodophur solution".
> My quart bottle of B-T-F Iodophor Sanitizer states "Add to cool or
> lukewarm water. Never use hot water".  Anybody out there know
> precisely why hot water is a no-no?  

Hmmm. My puny little year old bottle of B.E.S.T. Iodophor omits this 
"Never use..." warning, and my gallon size Arrow "Iodine Sanitizer" 
says to use one ounce in five gallons of water.

Could be a recent development. I, too, am curious about the warnings 
as it has been my (very, very long) habit to use the hottest tap 
water I can produce (usually on the order of 130 deg F - is this hot, 
or lukewarm?) to mix up my sanitizer. Never had an infection, and the 
solution maintains its color for a long, long time.

Anyone?!?

(Ain't it funny that I find it easier to keep up with the HBD when
at work than when at home? Huh? What? Oh. Yes, dear...) 

Hoppy, er, um, Happy New Beer! Uh, make that Year!

See ya!

Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit)
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1921, 12/28/95