FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  520 nm? (Rob Lauriston)
  low  finishing s.g. ("KW HULME - 0424279")
  Hops toxicity---The uninformed view ("Michael R. Swan")
  Are my brew system plans ruined? (BigBrad)
  Broken Thermo No Problem (G. M. Elliott)
  Re: Belgian Rock Candy (candi) ("David Elm")
  Scottish Ale and #1728 (trafcom)
  hops toxicity, Crabtree ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Big Jack Attack... ("Pat Babcock")
  Thread21 fix-it program (gravels)
  Priming with sucrose? ("Tim Holland")
  Bottle capper repair ( hopefully :-) ) (Dan Fuller)
  re:  hops, G. Fix comments (DEBOLT BRUCE)
  IODAPHOR (C. Rosen)
  steel/lautering (DejNik)



******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 00:02 PST
From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston)
Subject: 520 nm?

Greg Walz's post in HBD # 1917 about lightbulbs damaging beer made me wonder...

Does anyone in the collective know the intensity of the various wavelengths
of light given off by incandescent bulbs?   I think blue-green is what we
want to avoid and incandescent always seems more yellow-orange.  They might
be harmless.  (Or they might be the duvel in disguise.)

Truth, show yourself!

    Rob Lauriston                          <robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca>
    The Low Overhead Brewery                        Vernon, B. C.


Return to table of contents


Date:          Thu, 28 Dec 1995 12:05:31 GMT+200
From: "KW HULME - 0424279" <HULMEK at kbpnfs03.eskom.co.za>
Subject:       low  finishing s.g.

as a new kid on the block (my first message) and not having brewed 
any beer for around fifteen years i'm wondering why every case i have 
read in the last six weeks or so the finishing s.g. is so low (ie+/- 
1020). the last batches i brewed had a finish s.g. of 1050/1055.
i am going start brewing again as soon as we have moved house early 
96. 

the Bibbel

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 8:20:58 GMT (Original EST)
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
Subject: Hops toxicity---The uninformed view

	A week ago or so I posted on the recent evidence that hops are toxic to 
dogs.  I have been following the discussion on the Greyhound list about this 
issue and thought you'all might get a kick out of one of the posts there. The 
author of the post will go unnamed. The next time we get involved in an 
esoteric discussion on water chemistry or some other such thing, it might be 
helpful to step back and realize that a whole lot of people out there have 
absolutely *no* idea about what we are doing:
=============================================================================
                              
   -------------------------- [Original Message] -------------------------    

>Date:    Thu, 21 Dec 1995 20:57:17 -0500
>Subject: Re: Beer Brewers Beware!

>Let's not overlook the obvious -- alcohol poisoning. Nice soggy hopps
>from a fresh batch of brew will have a good bit of good old ethanol in
>it. Remember that ethanol is poisonous. Given that dogs are opportunistic
>feeders who will gorge 'til sick given the chance, I'd not rule out
>alcohol poisoning resulting from injesting wet mash. If the hound
>dodges that one there is always bloat lying in wait.
 
Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan at fdic.gov
Standard Disclaimers Apply
                          
ps.	Someone on the Greyhound List sent me the phone number of the woman who 
wrote the original article.  I would be happy to forward this info to anyone 
who had any further questions about hops toxicity in dogs.

Return to table of contents


Date:         Thu, 28 Dec 95 08:09:05 CST
From: BigBrad <BPLUMMER at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM>
Subject:      Are my brew system plans ruined?

Happy holidays, all.
For the past six months I have been planning my brew system based on
one kettle and one burner(propane). I will be using a Little Giant pump
and Brutad software. I purchased a converted keg from SABCO and am now
in the process of putting together the analog-to-digital circut for
temp monitoring. I am right on the edge of completion and what does my
wife go and do? .... She buys me a 15 gal SS cook pot for Christmas. It
has thrown a monkey in my wrench :) What to do? What to do? I'm happy
using a Gott for the masher.  I guess my serious question would be...
Which SS kettle would be best for my setup: converted keg or SS pot?
Or is there even an answer?  BTW my wife found this 304 SS 60 qt pot
for $118. New. Eat your hearts out!!  :) The normal disclaimer about
the above companies.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Plummer             \                                       /
BMC Software, Inc.       \ If this gets any better, I won't be   /
Houston, Texas           \ able to guarantee the FULL 3 minutes. /
bplummer at sysubmc.bmc.com \                                       /
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Many times I speak for BMC Software. This ain't one of 'em.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 09:37:48 -0500
From: ge083 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G. M. Elliott)
Subject: Broken Thermo No Problem

Regards all and Happy New Year----

to the concerned who had a broken thermometer in his wort- I too
had the same experience with the same type of thermometer(beads
and the red sealer)  I believe the beads are non harmful and went
ahead and bottled and have long since drank the beer from this
batch.  Have not had any bad after effects nor any good ones 
either.  The beer was very good although I would not add this
adjunct in the future.

Since this has happened I have gone to metal dial type
thermometers and don't worry about it anylonger.

Cheers,

Mark


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 10:56:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "David Elm" <delm at hookup.net>
Subject: Re: Belgian Rock Candy (candi)

>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 10:03:57 -0500 (EST)
>From: Todd Kirby <mkirby at bgsm.edu>
>Subject: Belgian Rock Candy

>I came across some Belgian Rock Candy that our local homebrew shop just 
>started carrying. I asked the owner about it but he hasn't used it yet 
>in any of his brews. It comes in clumps on a string, which you have to 
>strain out after it dissolves. I've never seen it mentioned on 
>the digest or in recipes. Naturally, I knew where to ask for some advice. 
>I'm wondering which styles utilize each type (there's dark and light), 
>what qualities it gives to the beer, and which step of the process is it 
>added? This is probably of interest to other HBDers, so if someone has a 
>good summary could you post to the digest?

	I understand that candi sugar is sucrose that has been crystalized
from a supersaturated solution.  It will be very pure, hard to find and
expensive outside of Belgium.  It, and other sugars, are used in most Belgian
style beers to raise the fermentables and is added to the wort late in the
boil.  Have a look at "Belgian Ale" by Pierre Rajotte.
	Living in Toronto, Canada I gave up trying to locate candi sugar.
Instead, I caramalize sucrose to a medium-dark brown colour and add it,
while molten, to the boiling wort.
- -- 
    David Elm    delm at hookup.net    (416)-293-1568    fax: (416)-291-9540
     47 Chartland Blvd S,   Scarborough,   Ontario,   M1S 2R5,   Canada


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 11:23:16 -0500 (EST)
From: trafcom at inforamp.net
Subject: Scottish Ale and #1728

Fleming, Kirk Mr. wrote:

 ....based only on what I've done with about a dozen fairly strong Scottish
ales and on Noonan's book, I'd say your finish gravities are already too
low. I believe his rule of thumb for Scottish ales is fg ~= .33og.

The other aspect of these ales I picked up from Noonan is that every step
of the process is designed to make life hard for the yeast. High mash temps
(maybe you're mashing too high) combined with low ferment temps. I would
NOT raise the temp to get the yeast going--58-62F for a long time is, I
believe, the norm. It's basically a lagered ale and you should expect a
*very* long ferment.

- -----------

'Mr.' Kirk Fleming? :)

Haven't read Noonan's book on Scotch Ales, But based on my upbringing in
Glasgow, I don't remember the temp. 'ever' being above 60F in my house in
winter - there was no central heat in those days. So I don't suppose
brewers would have heated the fermentation rooms above that temp. either. I
can't vouch for the beer, only for what local conditions were like. Beer
presumably was made with local water, local barley, and brewers brewed
under the confines of local weather conditions - a temperate climate.

Peter Stanbridge
Oakville, Ontario
trafcom at inforamp.net



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 12:01:41 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: hops toxicity, Crabtree

In Digest #1914:
"Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov> says:
[snip]
>In the author's case, her husband brewed fifteen gallons of Irish 
>stout and strained out the hops into a bucket.  The greyhound was found the 
>next morning eating out of the bucket.[snip] She died thirteen and a half hours
>after eating the hops.

Based on this report, it seems that the animal consumed more than just hops.
Perhaps hops aren't the problem at all! Maybe it's the trub?   

>Pretty scary stuff---especially since the Vet first told the woman 
>that hops weren't dangerous to dogs.  I guess this means don't dump your used 
>hops in the compost pile if there are dogs around.

One of my dogs would probably eat a pile of hops too, if I let her; I don't.
Malignant hypethermia is a fairly rare disease caused by an autosomal
dominant mutation in the ryanodine receptor (calcium release channel) of
striated muscle cells (MacLennan et al.). Certain breeding lines of animals
are known to have a genetic predisposition to this disease. In susceptible
individuals, symptoms can be induced upon exposure to inhalant anesthetics
or certain muscle relaxants, leading to muscular rigidity, tachycardia,
cyanosis, hyperthermia, and eventually death. While it's possible that one
or more components of hops (which are known to have mild narcotic effects)
may trigger malignant hyperthermia in susceptible dogs, I don't think enough
research has been done to make any valid conclusions at this point.
Interesting though!

and in Digest #1916:
Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> says:
>Re: a previous post -
>Correction:  Tracy Aquilla correctly points out that the Crabtree
>effect really refers to the tendency of yeast to ferment rather than
>respire in the the presence of glucose and doesn't necessarily mean no
>growth or reproduction, tho' several brewing sources suggest it.  I
>think the important point is that with organisms like yeast with
>multiple metabolic pathways, that rates for a particular metabolic
>pathway have many dependencies.

True, in fact, ALL organisms have multiple metabolic pathways (not just
yeast) and rates of the various pathways DO depend on numerous parameters.
However, the important point I was trying to make is that in the case of S.
cerevisiae, respiration does not occur in the presence of glucose,
regardless of oxygen concentration (see Antonie van Leeuwenhoek
63(3-4):343-52, 1993, for a recent review). The reason I brought this up is
that most homebrewing authors state or imply that respiration occurs for a
brief period after pitching the yeast, which appears to be in direct
disagreement with the scientific literature on this subject. If anyone's
really interested in this stuff, I have started collecting some references
and I'd be glad to share them and summarize my findings.
Email me for details.
    Tracy in Vermont
    aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 14:20:16 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Big Jack Attack...

Jack Schmidling has graced us with his wit and wisdom once again...

First: How about this Schmidling Warranty-proof (TM) Maltmill (TM) 
motorizing scheme:

Cantilever-mounted motor equipped with v-belt pulley to a reducing
pulley. The pulley drives a sprocket which drives an identical
sprocket mounted to the mill.  A chain to connect the sprockets, and
there you have it: the shock absorbing quality of the belt and pulley
system, while the sprocket and chain isolates the Maltmill (TM) shaft
from any lateral stress resulting from suspending the motor weight
with the shaft through the belt.

Of course, if your motor is slow enough to require 1:1 ratios, this 
implementation would probably not be optimum.

*******************************

Though I would like to comment on the remainder of his comments, I
am restraining myself. Why? Because, like Jack, I am not qualified to
speak to the differences between sanitary and sterile. Except that,
in textbook terms, sterile is the absence of all microbiological
life, and sanitary isn't. I'm sure Jack really meant to think about
spores in his discussion of boiling, or perhaps he really thinks
that people - qualified people - who have done research - real
research - on the subject (not related to brewing, per se, but
microbiology, epidemiology, etc...) are full of hogwash. Or maybe he
does. Who knows...

By the way, Oh Great Banisher of DMS (TM), I've two slow-cooled,
domestic pale malt-based batches of beer I need you to come and
exorcise the DMS from. One o' us poor mere mortals have been stricken
by the mytholgical momism. 

On intimidating technology? He who lives in glass house... 

What do I mean? Look in your workshop, Jack. You derive 
your living by selling some of that which intimidates the newbies. 
Just because a competitor sells the chiller fittings is no reason to 
start throwing stones. And the 'level' of the conversation in the HBD 
just mimics the level of the readers/posters. Probably couldn't 
change that phenomena even if you wanted to. I see and have seen 
plenty of "overwhelmed beginners" get just the help they need from 
the "overabundance of highly technical, complicated, super precise 
information" parlayed through this forum. Maybe if you'd read rather 
than roll your eyes, you might see it too.

Oh, and welcome back. We missed ya...

(Damn! I commented on the other stuff. Never did have much 
willpower...)
Hoppy, er, um, Happy New Beer! Uh, make that Year!

See ya!

Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit)
pbabcock at oeonline.com  URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/
    Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the 
    end of your day as every sentence requires proper 
     punctuation.
           -- PGB


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 15:35:11 EST
From: gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: Thread21 fix-it program

Hi All,

     In November I posted about a program that would fix files that 
Thread21 has a problem recognizing.  It is called lfcrlf11.zip.  I 
uploaded the file to the Stanford archives and someone discovered that 
the .zip file was corrupted, so I have recompressed it and uploaded a 
working file.  Sorry for any inconvenience. 

(P.S., I was so good that Santa bought me a cornelius keg setup!        
 What a guy that Santa!) 

           Steve Gravel          Newport, Rhode Island
                 gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
       "Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"


 -                            \\\\^////         
 -                              \0 0/                              
 -    ---------------------ooOo--(_)--oOoo----------------------------
 -                                U


Return to table of contents


Date:          Thu, 28 Dec 1995 14:06:04 +0000
From: "Tim Holland" <tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu>
Subject:       Priming with sucrose?

I ran out of corn sugar when I was ready to bottle my last batch and 
used sucrose (table sugar) instead.  The beer turned out fine except 
that it is slightly over carbonated.  Should less sucrose be used to 
prime than corn sugar?  If so how much?

Thanks!

=================================
Tim Holland -- Tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu
Butte, Montana
=================================

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:45:24 -0500
From: Dan Fuller <fuller at nectar.nexen.com>
Subject: Bottle capper repair ( hopefully :-) ) 


Hello, 

I have a capper : Everedy No. 150 Capper, at least 35 yrs old.

The mechanism on the capper does not fit over the bottle far enough to crimp
the cap completely.  Does anyone out there no of a place I could get this 
hardware?

- -- 
Danf ( fuller at nexen.com )






Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 17:29:41 -0600
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt at dow.com>
Subject: re:  hops, G. Fix comments

Subject:  re:  hops, G. Fix comments
From:  bdebolt at dow.com

I would like to second George Fix and Norm Pyle's comments regarding
Columbus as a high alpha bittering hop.  I made an IPA recently with 66 IBU
(per Rager formula) using Columbus for the 60 minute addition and the
bitterness was very pleasant.  Just Hops gave 2 oz. to me as a freebie on
my first order.   Usual disclaimers.

George Fix also mentioned that he was not getting the same quality of
flavor from Cascades as in the past.   This was interesting as our most
experienced club member (15 yrs homebrewing, BJCP judge) commented at the
last meeting that he has been noticing a grassy type flavor in a lot of
club beers this year and could only attribute it to Cascade hops after
talking to the individual brewers.  He thought that perhaps the '95 crop
was different than others.  This year I received some "veggie" comments on
judging sheets for on an American Pale Ale using Cascade and Centennial. 
Never had these comments before for these hops.  May be just a coincidence.

I'm just about finished with some alcohol measurements on low alcohol beers
made by the freeze and drain technique and should post within two weeks.  

Someone asked about the new Wyeasts.  I just used the 1272 (American Ale
#2?) for two consecutive cream ale batches (ran it side by side with #1968
ESB) and will post some info when the second batch is carbonated.    

Bruce DeBolt
Lake Jackson, TX
new email address:     bdebolt at dow.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 17:42 CST
From: crosen at wwa.com (C. Rosen)
Subject: IODAPHOR

Thought I'd add my $0.02 worth. When I recirculate iodaphor thru my wort
chiller and back up to the hot-liquor tank, after about an hour, most of the
color is gone. There's lots of splashing going on, so I suspect it is
volitile, just like chlorine, which also disipates when agitated or heated. 

My bottle also says to use cold or tepid water.

Harlan, soon to be back in C'dale :-)


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 01:44:01 -0500
From: DejNik at aol.com
Subject: steel/lautering

Hi all
I have two quick questions:
1. Can I use a steel container as my fermenter IT IS NOT STAIN LESS and if I
can't uset does any one have a phone number for the company that manufactures
SS equip or wholesalers of SS equip.
2. I need teeps on lauterering I did couple partial mashes and I want to try
all grain brew,I reed couple of articles on this but, I can't get why do I
need to pour my initial runof back into lauter tunn and mixet with sparging
water. Wouldn't that decrease mine O.G.
Thank in advance
Private mail is OK
Dejan Nikitovic
Marquette University
DejNik at aol.com

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1922, 12/29/95