HOMEBREW Digest #1934 Sat 13 January 1996
![[Prev HBD]](/img/previous.gif)
![[Index]](/img/index_button.gif)
![[Next HBD]](/img/next.gif)
![[Back]](/img/up_level_button.gif)
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Gravity; Bud-Liker; Steeping Grains (KennyEddy)
Digest #1922 (Algis R Korzonas)
Metabolism Simplified (A. J. deLange)
Wanted:The Best Red Ale (egans)
More stuck sparge problems (Mike Dowd)
Computing Final Gravity (Phil Brushaber)
(Kevin.Furlotte)
(Kevin.Furlotte)
Blueberry Pale Ale (Kevin.Furlotte)
copyright stuff ("Tracy Aquilla")
(Mitch Hogg)
Re: Oak Barrels (Demetrius J. Karos )
Bacteria Spores (Jim Herter)
Queer Beer (Kit Anderson)
subscription (Ingalls_Morrie)
Celis White (Douglas R. Jones)
Brewers Companion Worksheets (Bill Pemberton)
Open Fermentation (Jim Busch)
brewing related web list? ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
Chlorine Filters ; CO2 Air Chucks (KennyEddy)
faucet consensus, coffee pots for hop "tea" ("Kevin Imel")
RE: Primary Fermentation Temps. (SSLOFL)
Want Recipe (Greg Starkey x3-2863)
Keg carb/Efficency numbers for MM vs Corona (Brian Pickerill)
Coppery-white laws? (Russell Mast)
Re: Corny Keg Threads (Steve Dempsey)
Oxygenation/Yeast (A. J. deLange)
pectin (Rolland Everitt)
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:20:34 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Gravity; Bud-Liker; Steeping Grains
Paul Fisher writes:
> Upon thinking about it, I realized that this situation probably
> always occurs, especially after it's sat around in the secondary
> for a while. From what level should samples be extracted from a
> carboy/fermenter to take gravity readings; top, middle, or bottom --
> or does it not matter?
>
> On a related note, if boiling for an hour, does anyone have an estimate
> of how much water should be used get exactly 5 gallons after evaporation?
> I added a little extra to account for evap., but think I went overboard.
>
> - --Paul
> (snowbound in DC)
>
> by the way, to KennyEddie at aol.com
>
> you can pitch when the temp. is over 75 degrees; yeast can survive up
> above 100 degrees, I belive 120 is the death mark.
I had this situation once when I took the gravity reading from a carboy into
which I had transferred concentrated wort and added makeup water. I hadn't
shaken it at this point, and when I took a gravity sample from the top of the
fluid, I got below 1.030 for an extract brew which should've been 1.050. I
shrugged, cursed a bit, but plowed on, and produced a fine beer with it.
Wort is heavier than water and MUST be well-mixed before an accurate OG
reading can be taken. Once fermentation has occurred (or is occurring), the
wort is well-mixed and a gravity reading may be obtained from any depth.
For evaporation, figure on *about* 1 gal per hour. this varies considerably
due to kettle geometry, altitude, wort gravity, vigor of boil, and 1001 other
things, so benchmark your brewery and go from there.
On yeast temps -- true enough, but pitching at much above 75-80 can "shock"
yeast or encourage too-fast fermentation, with all the undesirable
by-products associated with it. Best to pitch near room temp.
Carl Etnier writes:
> Turns out the guy had become enamored of U.S. beer during his stay
> there, and wanted us to buy him a case or two of it at the PX. Not
> just any beer, but Budweiser.
Wierd, huh? When I was in Scotland this summer I asw the same thing; Bud and
Miller being pawned off as "premium American Lagers" with a price tag to
match the title. Not may takers, though, from what I saw. I did try a Coors
Extra-Gold in Edinburgh and found it noticibly more robust than its American
progenitor, so perhaps there's a bit of local taste accounted for in the
UK-brewed version (yes, they brew under license in the UK).
Gilad Barak wants to know about grain steeping:
Do it, dude!! Best to toss the grains into the cold brew water (in a nylon
mesh bag for ease of removal), bring the temp up to about 155F (hi-60's C),
hold for 30 minutes, then remove the grains and continue. Under no
circumstances should you boil the grains -- much nastiness will result in
your beer. The 155-degree "rest" is best-suited if you have grains of some
diastastic power such as pale or Munich, in which case you will achieve
somewhat of a "mini-mash". If no such grains are present, it still serves to
fully extract all the goodness of the grain.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
Then-Vice-President Dan Quayle, after the San Francisco earthquake - "The
loss of life will be irreplaceable."
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:58:37 CST
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Digest #1922
Hello--
Did anyone get HBD #1922? I didn't and it's not in the archives.
Could someone who did get a copy coordinate with the archivist and
put it in there? Thanks.
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:57:13 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Metabolism Simplified
C. D. Pritchard and John Wilkinson are interested in the metabolism
discussions but are suffering some vertigo. If I really understand any of
this stuff I ought to be able to explain it neatly and concisely without
the jargon of the biochemist. Here's my attempt:
1. All living things require energy.
2. This energy is required in a readily useable form. In living things it
is stored in ATP (in a class of molecules known as "nucleotides") which is
(mother nature's bio-chemical battery.
3. Living things not capable of getting energy from the sun must obtain it
from a chemical source, i.e. sugar.
4. The simplest way to get ATP energy from sugar is to ferment it i.e. to
break its 6-carbon structure down into a simpler 2 carbon structure.
5. Simple organisms are capable of this simple means of energy conversion.
6. Fermentation is not very efficient. It extracts only about a fifteenth
of the total energy available from sugar (2 ATP molecules per glucose
molecule).
7. In fermentation the 6 carbon glucose is split into two 3 carbon sugars
(trioses) and these are oxidized ("oxidation" means to grab electrons in
the same way that oxygen does. No oxygen is involved in fermentation.) to
pyruvic acid (usually referred to as pyruvate). The reaction steps which
describe this process are referred to as the "Embden-Meyerhof-Parnas
Pathway" (or just "EMP Pathway").
8. The oxidizing agent is NAD+, the oxidized form of the nucleotide NAD. It
grabs the electrons. In the course of oxidizing the trioses the NAD+ is
reduced (whenever something is reduced someting else is oxidized and
conversely) to NADH which symbolizes the reduced state of NAD.
9. The NAD+ must be regenerated if the fermentation is to continue. This
happens when pyruvate gives off CO2 to form 2-carbon acetaldehyde and the
acetaldehyde is reduced by NADH. When it reduces acetaldehyde the NADH
becomes oxidized to NAD+ which is reused in Step 8.
10. The other product of the reduction of acetaldehyde is 2-carbon ethanol.
11. More evolved organisms are capable of oxidizing the 3 carbon pyruvate
to obtain more energy (a total of 28 ATP molecules per molecule of
glucose). This is called "respiration". Pyruvate gives up CO2 forming the
2 carbon acetyl group which binds with "coenzyme A" to form AcCoA. AcCoA
then enters a cyclical sequence of reactions called the "Citric Acid
Cycle", the "Tricarboxylic Acid Cycle" or the "Krebs Cycle". In this cycle
the 2 carbon acetyl group condenses with four carbon oxaloacetic acid
forming 6 carbon citric acid which then goes through a series of reactions
in which 2 carbons leave (as CO2) thus producing the 4 carbon succinic acid
which is eventually converted back to oxaloacetic acid completing the
cycle.
12. In addition to the CO2, electrons (bound to nucleotides) are also
thrown off. These enter the "electron transport" chain where they
eventually meet with hydrogen ions and oxygen to form water. The
nucleotides are transformed into ATP in this process.
13. Yeasts are among the more evolved organisms. They are "facultative
anaerobes" meaning that they can ferment in the absence of oxygen or
respire in the presence of oxygen.
14. Whether they ferment or respire depends, obviously, upon the presence
of oxygen (they cannot respire without it) but also on a complex series of
feedback control mechanisms involving dozens of enzymes whose activities
are dependent upon the concentrations of the various sources and products
of metabolism.
15. Pasteur observed that yeast which were fermenting (anaerobic) reverted
to respiration when oxygen was supplied. This makes sense because
respiration is so much more efficient in terms of energy production.
16. Some yeasts, notably brewing yeasts, will not respire, even though
oxygen is present, in the presence of glucose. They ferment (or continue to
ferment if O2 was introduced after fermentation was underway). This makes
sense because a simple pathway is being used. The organism reverts to its
most primitive method of metabolism. As Craig Amundsen noted, nature likes
the KISS system.
17. When oxygen is present and Crabtree effect is operating the yeast
respire the alcohol formed during fermentation. This is "diauxic"
metabolism.
16. The alcohol is oxidized to acetate and the acetate then enters another
cycle called the glyoxylate cycle. This cycle produces succinic acid which
can then enter the Krebs cycle to be respired by the mechanism of Steps 11
& 12.
18. Once the glucose level is reduced significantly, the cells synthesize
(this is called "induction") enzymes which allow maltose to enter the cell
and which cleave it into a pair of glucose molecules.
19. If oxygen is present these glucose molecules will flow down the EMP
pathway to form AcCoA. Rather than entering the Krebs cycle, much of this
combines with oxygen to form sterol, the stuff of the cell wall. Most of
the oxygen absorbed by brewing strains is not respired but rather used in
this way. In baking strains of S. cerevesiae more respiration takes place.
Some of the AcCoA is also used to synthesize amino acids and other products
required by the cell (including glycogen).
20. When the oxygen is depleted the cells then revert to simple
fermentation (although activities like growth and budding continue but at a
lower rate).
This obviously attempts to cram the whole nine yards into a nutshell. Two
questions follow. First, to those who understand all this "Does it look
right?" Second, to those who don't: "Does this help to make it clear?"
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:41:41 -0700
From: egans at cadvision.com
Subject: Wanted:The Best Red Ale
I've made three or four batches of Red Ale, and most have been quite good,
but I know they could be better. Does anyone have a favorite recipe they
would like to share? High in carbonation would be a plus!!! Thanks.
Dave.
egans at cadvision.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 01:32:16 -0500
From: mdost3+ at pitt.edu (Mike Dowd)
Subject: More stuck sparge problems
Hi,
This past weekend, I brewed a Russian Imperial Stout. I use an EasyMasher
fitted to a 5 gal. kettle (so I can handle about 12 lbs of grain at a
time), and for the second time this brew season, had a stuck sparge (the
first was when I made a Weizenbock). At first I thought that the EM itself
might have been the source of the problems, but after checking it out in
between mashes (I had to do a double mash to get the proper gravity)
decided that it was probably my recipe. It follows:
8.5 lb. Pale
14 oz. Biscuit
7 oz. German Crystal
7 oz. Belgian Special B
10 oz. Black patent
12 oz. Roasted barley
8 oz. Flaked barley
Mash sched: 104=B0 for 30 min., 155=B0 for 90 min. (a mash schedule I have u=
sed
before, modified from G. Fix's 40-60-70 schedule)
My question is this: Can anyone tell me why this collection of grains would
have given me such sparging problems? Was it just too much special malt?
Should I have done a protein rest? I have done mashes this heavy and thick
before with no problem, I even did a Wee Heavy double mash (from G.
Noonan's _Scotch Ale_) just 3 weeks before, with no problem. Everything is
fine now, my big and small stouts are fermenting happily, but I prefer not
having to stay up until 6:30 am making beer, and am curious as to why this
didn't work, and what I should change in the future so that it isn't such a
pain in the ass.
Also, I posted about this a while ago, but never got any responses: Does
anyone have any recommendations for avoiding a stuck sparge with wheat
beers? As I mentioned, I tried a Weizenbock a few months ago (used the
recipe in Warner's _German Wheat Beer_) which stuck as hard as the ten year
old gum under my fifth grade desk. I really like wheat beer, and would
like to do more in the future, but not if it will involve 18-20 hour brew
sessions.
Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
Michael Dowd "I could be mistaken. Maybe it was another
Slippery Slope Research bald-headed jigsaw-puzzle tattooed naked
University of Pittsburgh guy I saw."
mdost3+ at pitt.edu -Fox Mulder
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 22:31:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber at lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Computing Final Gravity
Tell me if you think this is a valid procedure for computing
final gravity.
Assuming for a given amount of malt in a given amount of finished
product.... if one used 100% fermentables such as 2-Row, one
might expect a final gravity of something like 1.008 (assuming
the starting gravity was about 1.045 to 1.050.
If one takes out thier brewing calculator (I use "Brewbeer")
and calculates the "points" contributed by the non-fermentables
(Crystal, Caravienne, Cara Munich, Dextrine, etc.) alone. Can
you back that figure out of something like 1.008.
Let me give you an example. I'm putting together a Pale Ale (10 gallons)
with about 16 lbs of 2-row and 3 lbs of various non-fermentables. I
calculate that the non-fermentables alone would contribute about
8 points to the total. If I add those 8 points to a figure
of 1.008, should I be surprised that I am getting a FG of
about 1.016? Don't know if I should blame the Crystal or poor yeast
for a high FG.
Are my theories cock-eyed? How DO you predict the target final
gravity for a recipie?
- ----
The Lunatic Fringe * Richardson, TX * 214-235-5288 * Home Of FringeNet
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 07:42:18 -0500
From: Kevin.Furlotte at corp.wrgrace.com
Subject:
I'm relatively new at home brewing. I'm still using ingredient kits. I
am a fan of fruit brew so I have been experimenting with that. I just
recently made a Pale Ale and added 2.5 lbs of fresh blueberries. I
crushed the blueberries and pasturized them at the end of boiling. My
question is is it recommended to ferment this batch twice (or any batch
with fruit), Primary and Secondary? Is so why? What are the advantages
or disadvantages of only a primary ferment?
K.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 07:50:04 -0500
From: Kevin.Furlotte at corp.wrgrace.com
Subject:
cancel article Jan11,05:54,17354
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 07:51:12 -0500
From: Kevin.Furlotte at corp.wrgrace.com
Subject: Blueberry Pale Ale
I'm relatively new at home brewing. I'm still using ingredient kits. I
am a fan of fruit brew so I have been experimenting with that. I just
recently made a Pale Ale and added 2.5 lbs of fresh blueberries. I
crushed the blueberries and pasturized them at the end of boiling. My
question is is it recommended to ferment this batch twice (or any batch
with fruit), Primary and Secondary? Is so why? What are the advantages
or disadvantages of only a primary ferment?
K.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 08:57:36 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: copyright stuff
In Digest #1932:
"Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov> says:
>Has the issue of copyright protection for individual
>postings ever been resolved.
This isn't brew-related, but it's relevant nonetheless. I'm not a lawyer
(yet) but have looked into the copyright laws recently, particularly in
regards to email and usenet. The vast majority of the countries around the
world all adhere to the Berne convention, thus copyright protection is the
same essentially everywhere. Anything you produce yourself (including email
and articles posted to listservers and newsgroups) is protected by copyright
whether or not one makes any direct claims in the document itself. Nobody
may legally reproduce your work without your permission (including
forwarding email or news articles!), although there is a concept known as
fair use, which allows one to quote short passages for the purpose of
critique, for example, and makes certain exceptions for such purposes as
education, parody, etc. If you think your work may have some commercial
value, you should probably append a copyright notice (i.e. copyright 1996,
T. Aquilla) in case you ever decide to try and collect for infringement.
Without such a notice, you may sue for infringement but you can't collect
any money from the infringer. I don't think the digest really needs such a
notice, but it would be very easy to add one to every issue (why not, Rob?)
and if any unscrupulous person ever makes a fast buck selling our digest to
anyone else (like beer-related CD-ROMs containing stolen info) we could
possibly collect enough cash to set up a dedicated server somewhere. I
highly recommend that everyone using the internet read an article called "10
Big Myths About Copyright Explained" by Brad Templeton, as it pertains
directly to net-abuse of copyright and it's an excellent article. This
article can be found at: http://www.clari.net/brad/copymyths.html
For those who are web-challenged, I'll email you a copy (I do have
permission!) if you email me and request it.
Tracy in Vermont
aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:15:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Mitch Hogg <bu182 at freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject:
A quick question for those of you who label your beer: what do you use to
stick the darn things on the bottles? A friend of mine in a band who does
a lot of postering for gigs and such suggested mixing up some skim milk
powder to a very weak liquid and painting it on the back of the labels.
Apparently it sticks fast but --and this is the important part-- comes
off with a quick soak (in his case, the posters come off naturally in a
couple of days due to rain and snow). I am hesitant to try this at home
simply because of the potential smell of room-temperature milk, but maybe
a weak solution of the powder, which can be kept unrefrigerated in dry
form, won't cause this problem. What I really want to stay away from is a
non-water-based glue, like the rubber cement I once used years ago,
because it took forever to get off. So, has anyone out there used the
milk powder method? How did it work? Are there any other methods anyone
would recommend? I'd like to stay away from gummed paper; I'd sooner
print out one copy of the label and photocopy it then abuse my printer by
running a pile of gummed sheets through it.
Thanks in advance,
Mitch.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 06:17:47 -0800
From: dkaros at ix.netcom.com (Demetrius J. Karos )
Subject: Re: Oak Barrels
It is true that French Oak barrels are important in imparting flavor to
wines (and I guess beer).
The optimal storage for red wine in a 53 or 59 gallon barrel is one
year after primary fermentation. This means that after 7 days (more or
less) on the skins, the wine should go into the 53 or 59 gallon barrel
for one year. If you are using a 30 gallon barrel, the optimum time
period is around 11 months.
The above are only general guidelines. Many variables go into the
formula but if you want the 50 cent answer, the above are good enough.
However, I once put seven month old Cab into a new medium plus toast
Innerstave. I will probably be able to start drinking the Cab this
fall. The wine was made in 1992. I am able to drink my 1993 before
the 1992. In other words, do regular barrel tastings.
Oak is usually toasted over a fire. Better barrels are toasted with
fire fuels with oak chips and scrap pieces. Toasting levels range from
none, light, medium to heavy. For my Cab and Zin, I like medium plus.
Demetrius
Long live the Innerstave and the Crusher/Destemmer.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:16:48 -0500
From: james.m.herter.1 at nd.edu (Jim Herter)
Subject: Bacteria Spores
My foodservice sanitation guides states that bacilli can form spores, but
the other two types of bacterium - cocci and spirilla - do not.
.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:23:25 -0500
From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com>
Subject: Queer Beer
> A gentleman came in, saying he was going to Saudi Arabia, where alcohol is
>illegal, and wanted to convert "near beer" to "real beer". (Well, Sir,
>you'll need 40 pounds of this dark malt barley...)
>(He was adamant that he start with the near-beer and not
>malt extract of any kind.)
> Anyway, given the limitations above, is there a better way that
>doesn't involve actually brewing any beer?
> Just a few ounces of wierdness to add to the last 15 mins of your boil!
I spent a few months in Saudi Arabia. The drink of choice is Sadiq (friend)
which is distilled from fermented cane sugar. It can be made brown by the
addition of wood chips. Both are horrible, but people seemed to develop a
taste for it given enough time.
Beer drinkers were out of luck. It is hard to get malt extract and hops
there as the government knows there is only one use for them. Most simply
add Sadiq to near beer. Imagine adding bad gin to Kaliber. I would suggest
holding your nose, slamming a shot of Sadiq, then sip a VERY cold near beer.
If you were able to actually brew there, you would be the most popular
person in the kingdom.
In Shallah.
Kit Anderson
Bath, Maine
<kit at maine.com>
The Maine Brew Page
http://www.maine.com/brew
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 09:36:14 CDT
From: Ingalls_Morrie at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: subscription
Please add me to your mailing list
Thanks
MORRIE INGALLS
ingalls_morrie at ccmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:50:37 -0600
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Celis White
On Tue, 09 Jan 1996 21:52:56 Harlan diligently typed:
>P.S. On a completely unrelated note, I had two bottles of Celis White while
>I was in Chicago over the holidays and it was awful. No flavor, very little
>cloudiness--BLAND! Does anyone know whether Miller has totally #*&? at !-up one
>of my favorite bottled beers or did I just get two from a bad batch? Can't
>miller be killed or something?
My guess it was a bad couple of bottles. As far as I can tell Miller has had
no affect on the operation of the brewery from a recipe/quality standpoint.
You can always visit their homepage at http://www.celis.com and leave them
some mail. I will pass your comments onto a friend inside the brewery.
Doug
- --------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones
both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation
Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307
| djones at iex.com
- --------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:00:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Pemberton <wfp5p at tigger.itc.virginia.edu>
Subject: Brewers Companion Worksheets
Does any have any worksheets like those in the book Brewers Companion -- I'm
not happy with the results the copy machine is giving me..... I'd like to
find something very similar in PostScript.
I've seen the two that are on the ftp site, but I'd really like something
closer to the Brewers Companion ones.
- --
Bill
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:00:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Open Fermentation
Tim asks about open fermentation:
<I assume
<that the "open" period should begin as soon as a krauesen layer covers the
<surface of the fermenting beer and should last until the foam begins to
<subside and break apart. Any dissention yet?
Commercially, most open fermenters are never covered. Some are housed
in positive pressure rooms, others are not. Ive never seen a positive
pressure room in Belgium but they probably exist somewhere. For homebrewing
I like to cover it at times when it is least active. Its just a good idea.
As the beer hits high krausen (about 10-12 hours in my normal ales), I remove
the lid totally to allow the dense rocky krausen to form and to avoid
spill over out of my fermenter. Commercially, the beer is moved as soon
as the krausen dies down. I sometimes allow it to sit covered as long
as 5 days after this.
<Some of the true British-style open fermentations I've seen (in pictures) use
<a recirculating system, in which fermenting beer from the bottom of the
<fermenter is redistributed to the top of the fermenter (spraying or stream).
This is very rare these days. Yorkshire Squares and Burton Unions are
the vessels used. Only one large brewer still uses Unions, Marstons,
and they blend the beers between Union and non-Union fermenters. Sam Smiths
and another Yorkshire brewer still use Squares.
<What is the purpose of recirculation: rousing, aeration, mixing, all of the
above?
Yes, and less losses.
<Wouldn't increased aeration lead to greatly elevated
diacetyl production?
Yes, but dependent on yeast strain.
<Is recirculation necessary to get the true benefits of open fermentation?
No, but it is very useful with sleepy yeasts that want to flocc out
too soon. Also useful with true top croppers, ones that sit on the
top at the end of the ferment.
I would not suggest recircing in the home environment. If you need to
rouse the yeast, use a sanitized spoon and stir it up, or use the
dropping method.
<My plan is to loosely cover the fermenter until fermentation
<commences, then remove the lid and begin recirculation until fermentation
<basically subsides, then rack to glass secondary or straight-away to keg.
<Opinions are welcome.
Be sure to clean and scrub/sanitize the kettle before you ferment in it.
Skip the recircing. If you want to rack to secondary, fine but you dont
have to. If you skim the yeast then allow it to settle you can go straight
into the kegs with it. I never do a secondary these days.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
Colesville, Md
busch at daacdev1.stx.com
A Victory For Your Taste!
Festbier, Lager and IPA
See:
http://www.aloha.net/~gak/BEER/BREWPUBS/PENNSYLVANIA/victoryPR.html
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:23:55 -0600
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at msbg.med.ge.com>
Subject: brewing related web list?
.int homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
Could anyone tell me if there is a list of brewing related web sites available
out there anywhere? If not, I would appreciate it if anyone who has a web site
could email me and I will compose a list out of all responses recieved.
Thanks, Mike Teed
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:51:02 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Chlorine Filters ; CO2 Air Chucks
Brad Fabbri writes:
> I'm interested in purchasing an effective carbon filter to remove
chlorine,
> et.al. from my tap water. Anyone have good luck with inexpensive units?
I use a Teledyne undersink charcoal chlorine filter (about $40 with cartidge
at the home stores) and have had no problems with chlorine since. Since I
don't know whether the cartridge is truly bacteriostatic, the risk of
bacteria buildup due to lack of chlorine is a concern, but I have never had
an infected batch in the year that I have used the filter. I usulaly run the
water for a bit before using it for brewing, just to try to flush out the
majority of whatever might be lurking.
Recent posting suggest that in addition to removing chlorine, the pH of the
water is changed which could affect mashing and other brewing chemistries.
On my list of Things to Do is to take "before" and "after" water samples to
be analyzed, to see what effect the filter is having. However, I have made
all-grain beers with filtered water (adding a bit of gypsum in the mash --
maybe a tblsp or so), with good results.
Randy Barnes asks:
> The goal is to end up with an air chuck (the kind used to fill tires)
> for my CO2 bottle. I know that I can use a spare hose to attach the
> air chuck directly to the regulator, but this requires changing the hose
> each time I wish to use the air chuck.
How about a tee-fitting in the tank-to-keg line? Only caveat here is that
these chucks leak like sieves so be sure to put a valve or at least a clamp
in-line with the chuck to conserve CO2.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:15:40 +8
From: "Kevin Imel" <kimel at moscow.com>
Subject: faucet consensus, coffee pots for hop "tea"
Greetings!
Thanks to all who responded to my request for advice about replacing
the kitchen faucet to make brewing easier. What follows is a brief
consensus/synopsis of the responses I got (over a dozen!).
- Everyone recommended that a hose type sprayer be a part of the
package, either built in or as an accessory.
- Several people recommended either a tall faucet or one of those that
can be extended upward to allow filling/washing of tall brew pots
etc.
- Two people pointed out that if you want to use a bottle washer that
you make sure that the new faucet will accept your bottle washer or
else be of the type that an adapter can be found. One of the two had
made the mistake of not watching for this and now was relegated to
washing bottles in the bathroom sink (ouch!).
Okay, nothing really earth shaking here but I really hadn't thought
of the bottle washer part...I will now!
==========
Not long ago someone suggested using the coffee pot to make a hot
"tea" for aroma hop additions but was afraid of the residue and the
subsequent fallout from the wife.
Well, this isn't a problem around our house as a fair portion of my
hop supply goes to making hopped coffee. If you haven't tried this
then by all means do it. I suggest a nice, dark roasted bean to help
complement the hop flavor and aroma. Everyone that I have served
this coffee to has really enjoyed it and several of those do not like
the taste of beer and were greatly surprised that they liked the
taste of the hops.
My favorite hop for this is Mt. Hood with Fuggles running a close
second but, any good aroma hop should be fine.
Cheers!
Kevin
___________________________
Kevin Imel
kimel at moscow.com kimel at vetmed.wsu.edu
Palouse, Washinington USA
"The only way to truely fail is to fail to try"
For a copy of my pgp public key send message with subject "SEND PGP KEY"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 14:13:59 -0600
From: SSLOFL at ccmail.monsanto.com
Subject: RE: Primary Fermentation Temps.
In HBD #1932, Chico says:
>The stuff tasted kinda sweet (probably because it's
>supposed to be) on bottling. Bottling date was 1/7/96. New batch
>is an IPA started on 1/7/96, and now two days later nothing still,
>yet. I pitched both yeasts in about 77 deg F wort. Here's the
>big kicker question:
> My fermenting "room" was 62 deg F for the first
> batch, and it has since dropped to 58-60 deg F. Is this
> too cold for primary fermenting??? Did the cold temps
> stick my fermenting in the first batch and inhibit yeast
> activity in both batches??
It sounds like you are off to a good start, and you did fine on
your first batch. Some brown ales (there are several types - yours
sounds similar to a Southern Brown Ale) are sweet at finish due to
caramel malts. This style is usually a low to medium alcohol brew and
is light bodied (low final gravity). This is one of my favorite
brews! You said that the fermenting temp of the brown ale was 62 F,
which must have been warm enough. I wouldn't go much lower in temp
with an ale, they usually prefer 60 - 75 F as a general rule, but it
depends on the yeast used. I personally use 65 - 68 F for most of my
ales since that is my basement temp. I have had good results so far.
So, to answer your question: "Did the cold temps stick my
fermenting in the first batch and inhibit yeast activity in both
batches??" For the first batch, no it did not - but it may partly
explain why it was a little slow starting. My ales usually take off
like a shot! Bring the second batch (the IPA) back up to 68 F but
don't repitch right away. Check the specific gravity in about 4 days
to see if it is working. Bringing the temp. back up should bring the
yeast out of dormancy.
Be sure that you are aerating well pefore pitching the yeast.
Also, if you are using liquid yeast, always make a starter. I used
dry yeast for my first few batches, the amount of time to get started
can vary also depending on the percent of viable yeast. You didn't
specify which type you used. Like most serious homebrewers, I feel
that liquid yeast is best - I soon made the switch.
If you can get your basement down in the 55 - 58 F region, you may
want to try a lager next. I have a lager in my basement now at 55 F
and it is doing ok. The general rule (generic) for lager temp. is
usually between 45 - 58 F, which varies with styles and yeast used.
Good luck and happy brewing!
Shane Lofland
(sslofl at ccmail.monsanto.com)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 16:16:40 -0600
From: starkeyg at iscmed.med.ge.com (Greg Starkey x3-2863)
Subject: Want Recipe
Hi, Was hoping someone out there might have tried to duplicate a chinese
beer called "TSINGTAO". Any idea's would be appreciated as it a
favorite of several of my friends.
Greg / Beerman
Return to table of contents
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Keg carb/Efficency numbers for MM vs Corona
Al responds to one of my posts:
>>discussed here to death already, but basically the longer the serving line,
>>the higher serving pressure you will need.
>
>You have it backwards: the higher the serving pressure, the longer line
>you need.
Seems to me that the serving pressure is a little easier to adjust, Al.
Either way, as we say here in Indiana, it's the "same difference." :)
I have to confess that I've been winging it with my keg setup. (I've only
had it like 6 months or so, haven't used it to fill anything exotic yet,
like tires. :) I need to be more systematic about it--my regulator is
reading way off (reads 10 lbs with the pressure off) and I've just been
force carbing by the seat of the pants without too much trouble. I have a
6 ft line on one of my kegs and I can hold the faucet up and serve pretty
well when I over shoot the carb. Also, I have decided not to drill the
fridge for carb lines. I just charge them once a week or so and have no
problems with that. Taps in the door would be great, but I think I'll do
all grain first. :)
Someone said:
>>any signs of gushing. Any thoughts? BTW, both brews taste fine.
I replied:
>Gushers aren't necessarily a sanitation problem. How does it TASTE? Beer
Gee, I read that one really close, didn't I? :) I think I should go into
lurker mode for awhile. Let me ask one question while I'm here though...
What kind of efficiency should I expect from a Corona mill? I wanted a
Malt Mill, but I got two Coronas for Christmas. I'm not complaining too
much, but it still wasn't enough jack (pardon the pun) to get the MM. Before
Christmas, somebody posted a "which mill should I buy" question on r.c.b and
I said "MM, no question." A couple folks wrote to ask why they shouldn't
just get the much cheaper Corona. I gave them the usual reasons, but it
eventually led to both of us wondering approximately how much more grain
would be needed and the eventual "break even" period (or number of
batches). Of course, when you break even, you would have a much better
mill, but you see what I'm getting at, right? What's the typical
effeciency difference? What number should I plug into Suds as a starting
point? I am going to use a slotted copper manifold in a 48 qt picnic
cooler, single infusion to start off with.
Thanks,
- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie, IN
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 17:29:38 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Coppery-white laws?
> From: blacksab at siu.edu
> Subject: Bending copper tubing/ Celis White
>
> There have been a number of posts recently suggesting methods for bending
> copper tubing, some of which IMHO are unnecessarily complicated.
Hear, hear! I warm the tubing with hot water, and bend slowly and smoothly.
I can't make tight bends and don't try. I think practice helps. But, bending
your own tubing is pretty easy, IMO.
> P.S. On a completely unrelated note, I had two bottles of Celis White while
> I was in Chicago over the holidays and it was awful.
I haven't had any for about a month, and it was on tap, but it was wonderful.
If it's changed, it's been recent. Did you buy from a reputable store?
Some places here let beer sit on the shelf for ages.
> From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
> Subject: Copyright issues on HBD
> "All mail sent through BASENJI-L is Copyright 1996 by its original author."
I've read from several sources, none of them copyright lawyers, that anything
written by anyone on e-mail, newsgroups, web-pages, or lists is implicitely
copyright by author unless otherwise stated. It's possible that this has
changed, or that I've been misled, or that it would be a good idea to protect
against future changes in the law or its interpretation.
Honestly, as arrogant as I can be, I don't think I've written anything someone
will make money from in the digest. (Of course, if anyone's going to make
money from my posts, it should be Harlan, the greatest hypnotist on the ...
huh? No, I mean ME. Me me me.)
-R
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 16:53:35 -0800
From: Steve Dempsey <steved at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Corny Keg Threads
In HOMEBREW Digest #1932 rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us sez:
>Does anyone know the size and thread pitch for the gas-in fitting on
>a pin-lock Corny keg? I'm trying to adapt the fitting to a standard
>air compressor quick disconnect, but at the local Home Depot none of
>the brass fittings (pipe, flare, compression) had threads that matched
>those on the pin-lock fitting.
>
>...
>
>Any better ideas?
Here's a better idea. Between the regulator and the
keg QD fitting install a tee. Presumably the air chuck
stays closed tight enough to leave on all the time. If
you're worried about leakage, place a good gas valve
between the tee and the chuck.
(tee)
tank===regulator-------+-----<pin-lock QD
|
X (optional valve)
|
at air chuck
I have a couple of gas lines set up like this not with
an air chuck, but with one each pin- and ball-lock type
gas QD's for whatever type keg shows up needing gas.
======================================================
Steve T. Dempsey Intel Corporation
<steved at ptdcs2.intel.com> 5200 Elam Young Pkwy
+1 503 642 0602 Hillsboro, OR 97124-6497
PTD CAD Pole: AL4-2-E2 MS: AL4-57
======================================================
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:43:13 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Oxygenation/Yeast
Jim Navecky asked about aerating canes: As far as I know, and what I ginned
up for my experiment, was an ordinary racking cane into which a small hole
was introduced at the top of the curve. The idea is that the vaccum created
by the falling wort will also suck in some air which will mix in with and
oxygenate the wort.
Neal Parker asked how dissolved O2 levels are measured. It is done with a
meter which applies a small bias (790 mV) across a silver and gold
electrode pair immersed in an electrolyte such as potassium bromide. The
electrode pair is adjacent to a very thin membrane through which oxygen
dissolved in the test sample can diffuse. Oxygen entering through the
membrane is reduced at the cathode (gold) by electrons supplied from the
bias supply and the current produced is then proportional to the amount of
oxygen which crosses the membrane which is, in turn, proportional to the
partial pressure of oxygen in the sample.
This is called a "Clark" or "polarographic" electrode. There is another
type, the "galvanic" which is not often used in brewing. I have no idea
what the principal is for this type.
Tracy Aquilla commented that the statistical sample size in my Wyeat
counting was too small. This is recognized. I got 4.1E9 and 2.1E9 from
which the estimated average count is 3.1E9 plus or minus 1.4E9 cells. At
$4.00 a pop I'm not going to increase the sample size dramatically but will
probably count each pack I use from now on to try to get a reasonable
estimate. In actuality, I don't even have the right to average these two
counts since one pack was old and one new, one incubated and the other not.
Use the numbers as order of magnitude estimates of the probable cell counts
per pack.
Tracy also commented that lager yeasts should take nearly 24 hours to
replicate because of they are polyploid. This is contrary to my experience
with another lager strain (Wyeast Czech Pils, #2278) which seems to double
every 3 hours or so. This is consistent with the value of u of 0.25
published in H, B, S & Y which calculates to 2.8. [ u goes in the formula
n(t) = n(0)exp(ut) ]. How does the ploidy effect the division time?
>The remaining question is "Where does the glyoxylate cycle take place?" Plants
>and bacteria have organelles called "glyoxysomes" but no diagram of a yeast
>cell I have ever seen shows these.
Tracy wrote:
> Enzymes participating in the glyoxylate
>cycle are localized to the peroxisomes in yeast (essentially the same as
>glyoxysomes).
I had another vote for peroxisomes in privatge e-mail from Dan Sherman
(thanks, Dan).
Tracy also wrote
>Essentially all fermentable sugars induce the Crabtree effect in
>Saccharomycetes (galactose is one exception), including fructose, maltose,
>and sucrose, but glucose exhibits the strongest effect.
Even galactose exhibits it to some extent but it is a matter of degree. To
quote the scripture (H, B, S & Y) "The effect is expressed in the presence
of fructose as well as glucose but is less marked when maltose, mannose or
galactose is the fermentable carbohydrate. (Vol II, p 593). Then there is a
table on p 594 but maltose is not listed!
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 20:40:04 -0500
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: pectin
A couple of days ago, somebody posted a message about pectin.
The author stated that pectin is a protein, and then proceeded to
explain why the light-absorbing properties of pectin could result
in cloudy beer. This is an extreme simplification of the argument
given, and I apologize to the author for this, but I hope to keep
this post brief.
I disagree completely with that explanation. Pectin is NOT a
protein; it is a complex carbohydrate made up of monosaccharides
that have had many of their hydrogen atoms replaced by methyl
groups. Pectin and pectic acid salts are important structural
compounds in plant tissues.
Pectin is soluble in water (more so in hot, but even in cold). In
the presence of acid and sugar, pectin, even in low concentrations,
can form a very stable colloidal suspension that traps particles of
other materials and prevents them from settling. This is how the
presence of pectin results in cloudy beer (or wine). Absorption of
light by pectin has nothing to do with it. High temperatures are
not necessary to bring this condition about, although cooking
fruits can certainly cause much more pectin to be extracted.
Pectin can be destroyed by pectinases - enzymes which hydrolyze
pectin. Addition of such pectolytic enzymes can quickly clear beer
or wine if pectin is the cause of the cloudiness.
Rolland Everitt
af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov
Return to table of contents