HOMEBREW Digest #1950 Thu 01 February 1996
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
'ennery "iggins & Bumping up starters (Steve Adams)
Cornstarch & Boiling / Long Mash (Gary S. Kuyat)
galvanized pipes ("Keith Royster")
LPG, how many brews? (THaby)
Bottle carbonation - an observation (Tim Bezek)
Canned homebrew? (krkoupa)
Plastic-electric-home-brewery (Richard_Okambawa)
Blowoff tubes and presence of bitters (dhvanvalkenburg)
Rootbeer (SSLOFL)
Blow Off III (Bill Rust)
Cold plate success (Mark Montminy)
Hunter Airstat Zener - replacement instructions? (Ted_Manahan)
flocculation (Scott Woodfield)
Brewpubs in San Francisco ("Herb B. Tuten")
Valley Mill (Jack Schmidling)
Munich Helles (Mark & Vonnie Mrozinski)
Cleaning blow off tubes, Aeration (Mark Riley)
EasyMasher ("Richard Smith")
Extended primary fermentation summary (DEBOLT BRUCE)
Re: Open Fermenters (J. Matthew Saunders)
Mills, Flux, Temp Controllers, Keg Stuff (MJT15)
Grain Volume / Heat Capacity (KennyEddy)
Question: Slow cool wort from boil to 130F? (Michael A. Genito)
Fermenting under pressure/ comments (Ken Schroeder)
oxidation of the wort (John Miller {83802})
Krausen and DMS (Robert Bush)
Re: YES, I must be doing something right!! (Mike Uchima)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:44:17 edt
From: paa3765 at dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams)
Subject: 'ennery "iggins & Bumping up starters
Pat:
Well, I can't believe I'm answering this but try <dy i CEE' til> or <dy
AS' i til> where the third and second syllables are accented respectively,
according to The Random House Desk Dictionary, rated as the best dictionary of
its type in the world. I've used a lower case i here to indicate a schwa --
generally represented by an upside down e in pronunciation keys. The schwa is
supposed to be the sound of vowels in unaccented syllables in spoken English.
It is somewhere between a short "i" and "e" (or u) to my way of thinking but
more clipped and in the back of the throat. (And I refuse to argue with anyone
about any of this. I'm just reporting what the linguists preach.) The "a" in
the second pronunciation is clearly intended to be a short "a" -- you know,
the way it sounds in apple or as. But since there are 64 ways of pronouncing
a, e, i, o, and u around the English speaking world, I doubt that we can come
to an agreement in the near future as to whether the "as" in diacetyl sounds
like "as" or "ass" to any individual's ear. I personally find it most natural
to use the second pronunciation, and never gave it a second thought. And now
that I've made myself into as big an ass as possible, I'll stop with the
English lesson and get back to beer.
I've been trying to determine whether one can go from a 50 ml smack pack
or a slant to a thousand milliliters. I know you're supposed to increase by
ten times -- from 50 to 500 and so on -- but some people have told me that you
can go directly to 1,000 or more, that it will just take longer for the stuff
to grow. I guess the point here is that I don't feel like making up too many
starters, but I'd like to pitch with as much yeast as practicable. Any
suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
SA
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 9:55:47 EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gkuyat at clark.att.com>
Subject: Cornstarch & Boiling / Long Mash
Regarding two issues raised with my posted cornstarch recipe:
1) Why Boil the Starch?
This has to do more with my own experience than with a truly scientific
reasoning. I had noticed lower than expected yields (much lower) with unboiled
cornstarch. Without boiling, the cornstarch seemed to be "in suspension"
rather than actually "dissolved". Again I don't know if this is actually the
case, but boiling definately changes the nature of cornstarch and water.
After boiling, my yields GREATLY improved. I actually get more extract out
of cornstarch than straight sugar!
2) After 2 hours at 145 why go to 155?
The decoction taken to get to 155 is boiled. This frees starch from the
grains which even two hours at 145 seems not to get. The 6-row I use (Schrier)
still seems to have useful enzymes after the 2 hour mash, and these work on
the new starch released from the boil.
Another issue with this recipe is its "evolution" rather than design. The
starch boiling was actually instituted at a time when the mash time was
significantly shorter. The boil helped the extract, but I still had starch
left at the end of the mash. So, I extended the mash. I never went back to
"unboiled" starch. This recipe is more trial and error than brewing science.
Since it produced the beer I wanted, I didn't really question the methods
(until now). I guess this is a good time to ask the gurus: Any issues with
boiling the starch? Do you think it helps in a 2-hour mash? Are there
"appendixes" in this recipe, useful at one time, but now just hanging out doing
nothing? I believe that there are still enzymes available after 2 hours, and a
batch made without the decoction at 155 did seem "thinner". Hard to describe
what I really mean here, but it just tasted ... well, thinner...
In case you care, the amounts of 6-row and cornstarch are to give me a mix of
approx 90degress Lintner (sp?). This figure should be okay for a mash. Any
issue here? Finally, brews made with this much extract from corn SUGAR
instead of corn STARCH tast cidery; why doesn't this?
Gary Kuyat
gkuyat at ix.netcom.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:10:32 -0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Subject: galvanized pipes
I'm sure that this has been answered recently, but the search engine
for the HBD archives doesn't seem to be working so I must bring my
question to you all again. I am halfway into the contruction of my
new 3 vessle RIMS system (all-grain, here I come!) and I was
planning on using an inexpensive galvanized pipe as the housing for
my electrical hot water heating element (SS=to expensive and plastic
is a fire hazard). But before I do this, it seemed only prudent to
ask what effects this might have on me and my beer. Will the
galvanized coating dissolve, and what will it do if/when it does
(overreactions and anecdotal horror stories are welcome, but will
probably be ignored)? Also, recommendations for other alternative are
welcome. TIA
Keith Royster - Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com
at your.service - The Affordable Web Page Provider
Mooresville, NC - Specializing in small and medium sized businesses.
Check us out at - http://www.wp.com/ at your.service/
Voice & Fax - (704) 663-1098
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 9:04:22 CST
From: THaby at swri.edu
Subject: LPG, how many brews?
Hello brewers, I was wondering how many brews you can get out of a bottle
of LPG when using a Cajun Cooker or similar type burner when doing full
wort boils (5 gals.)? I think I'll get three, four if Im lucky and that
seems low to me. Thanks for the help. Tim.
thaby at swri.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:13:01 -0800
From: Tim Bezek <tjb at alpha.sunquest.com>
Subject: Bottle carbonation - an observation
All,
I would like to add my observation in regard to the recent bottle
carbonation topic.
I recently bottled a Steam beer using both 16 oz and 12 oz bottles. The
very last bottle was a 12 oz that was filled about halfway. If was a
5 gal batch primed with 5 oz of corn sugar.
I tried the half-full bottle after about 7 days. It produced a rather
large "pffftt" sound when opened and was well carbonated with good head.
About 3 days later, I cracked a full 12 oz bottle, it too was pretty well
carbonated. I proceeded to drink several of the 12 oz bottles over the
next week or so. After being in the bottle nearly 3 weeks, I tried a
16 oz bottle. It had very low carbonation! This was observed in each
of 3 16oz bottles opened. After about 4 1/2 weeks, the 16 oz bottles are
now pretty well carbonated.
By the way, all the bottles were sanitized, filled, capped, stored, etc
at the same time and in the same manner.
Anyone else ever notice that larger bottles take longer to carbonate?
Of course this was not a scientifically controlled experiment. Actually
it wasn't even intentional, it just worked out this way!
Tim
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:52:58 PST
From: krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Canned homebrew?
A comment from my neighbor got me thinking about homebrew packaging. Kegs
and bottles work just fine so why consider other options? OK, now don't
dwell on the following quote, but my non-homebrewing neighbor tells me that
"beer isn't beer unless you hear the pffffft from opening the can."
So, HBD collective, what does it take to put your homebrew into an aluminum
can? I know, "Yikes! - What's the point?" I want to find out how
ridiculous it is to can homebrew by answering the following questions:
1. Does anyone make a can filler/topper/sealer on the homebrew scale?
2. How outrageous is the price for the minimum starter model?
3. Can :) you get supplies (without having to buy a warehouse-worth of bulk
materials?)
4. Are aluminum can filling machines available for rent?
5. Do you can-condition like bottle-conditioning? Or do you pressurize
with CO2?
It might be cheaper to dispense beer from a keg and play an audio recording
of an aluminum can opening. No, my neighbor's name isn't Pavlov, but it
just might work.
Ken Koupal
krkoupa at ccmail2.pacbell.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:58:16 -0500
From: Richard_Okambawa at UQTR.UQuebec.ca
Subject: Plastic-electric-home-brewery
Bread and beer! (Hello! in ancient Egypt)
First I must thank everyone out there who contributes to this high
level Forum on beer and home-brewing.
The recent debate about plastic electric brewery is very great.
Here is my experience on the subject.
I buid 3 years ago a HDPE buckets / versatile immersion heater
system for all grain brewing. I use this system for mashing, sparge
water heating and wort boiling in my home-brewery. I have
boosted the capacity of the system to 1 hl (6-8 h brewing time).
The heart of the system is the immersion heater of 3 kW (I need
two heater of 3 kW to produce 1 hl ) buid from hot water element
tin-silver soldered hermetically to one or two copper tubing 90
cm lengh.
Electric connexions are made of high temperature wire (isolated
with asbestos ) rated at 20 A. You can use 4 kW element .
Out of the copper tubings, I used regular wire, 25 A.
I've got a heating circle from a conventional
electric cooker. I cut the "pluging end" isolated the electric
conductor and connected it to the first part of the apparatus.
To use the system, you just have to replace the fuse of the tall
heating circle by a 20 A fuse, remove the corresponding cercle
and plug securely the Versatile heater.
The heater is controlled with the corresponding control switch at
the top of the electric cuisiniere. The system is elegant and versatile.
The home hot water is readily OK for the protein rest if you have
to do it. When I reach the desired temperature during mashing,
I remove the heater and use it to heat the sparge water.
I begin heating the wort during sparging when there is enough wort
to fully submerge the heating element. Qui dit mieux?
The great but contournable difficulty of the use of this
system for mashing is grain and plastic burning. Me, I merely put
a SS pan on the bottom of the mashing plastic tank to avoid direct
contact of the heating element with the bucket and agitate non-stoply
the heater, the control switch seted at 7 (position before MAX e.g 7).
This stuff is fantastic as it distribute the heating energy on a time
basis ( it is not a thermostat; e.g. 10 s on 5 s off for position 7, 8 s
on and 3 s off for position 5) helping avoiding grain burning during
mashing and caramelisation during wort boiling. I am planning to use
a centrifugal pump to agitate the mash or, better, build a presto-type
steam generator direct steam injection heating.
I hope this will help in the debate.
Feel free to require additional information if some parts of this
text are badly presented.
Richard Okambawa
860 Ste Ursule
Trois-Rivieres, Quebec
Canada G9A 1P1
e-mail: richard_okambawa at uqtr.uquebec.ca
Tel: (819) 693 6445
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:56:06 PST
From: dhvanvalkenburg at CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: Blowoff tubes and presence of bitters
Dave Ludwig writes:
>Actually, I think that the blowoff tube method is a pretty clever and
>simple way of getting rid of the "bitters" that supposedly inhabit
>the krausen.
>>>snip<
>The presence of bitters got me thinking though since my beers seem to
>have a certain harshness to them which may be partially the result of
>my leaving everything in the beer
The best way to eliminate the presence of bitters is to not put
them into the wort in the first place. Try using lower alpha
hops or boiling them for shorter period of time.
If you ever get a chance to visit San Francisco, go on a tour of
Anchor Brewing Co. When you are there take a good look at their
fermentation tanks. They are huge shallow wadding pools
completely open to the room with a screen door where workers go
in and out. Albeit they have controlled, filtered air(and lots
of it) going into the room and out via the screen door.
The only thing a blow off tube does for the beer is act as an
elaborate airlock, which only serves to keep out nasties when
your brewing environment is less than sanitary.
Large open fermentation, on the other hand, DOES provide
necessary oxygen. If I could control the air quality for the
room where I ferment my beer, I would do open ferments every
time. However I can't and I use a 10 gal. corney keg for my
fermenter just filled to about 9 gallons, and simply open the
pressure relief valve or make sure the fittings(gas/liquid-no
down tube) are loosely screwed on. This also allows the CO2 to
escape. When I do end up with more wort than anticipated, and
thus a full fermenter, I am forced to use that silly thing
called a blow off tube. Thanks, JS for the appropriate
adjective.
BTW, I once did do an open ferment with success with only a
clean window screen on top of a straight sided 15 gal ss pot to
keep out the fruit flies. Result: No problem, good ale, but
with the dust that accumulates in my garage, I think I would be
pushing my luck to use this method all the time.
Don Van Valkenburg
dhvanvalkenburg at ccgate.hac.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:10:16 -0600
From: SSLOFL at ccmail.monsanto.com
Subject: Rootbeer
Sorry if this has been discussed in past HBD's - If so, just point
me to them!
I have made homemade rootbeer in the past from the extract kits
available at the local homebrew shop. (This way my future nieces and
nephews can taste my homemade beverages - they are not old enough for
beer and wine) For those not familiar with these, you buy the rootbeer
flavor syrup, add it to 4 lbs. of sugar and 4 gallons of water, and
throw in a pack of wine or champagne yeast. Simply stir this mixture
well, and bottle right away. Easy, fun, tastes good, no alcohol (I'm
told - please verify), and costs about $6.00 total for a four gallon
batch.
My question is, why don't all of the bottles explode?!! You throw
in 4 pounds of sugar into 4 gallons with a pack of CHAMPAGNE yeast!!
The final rootbeer is very sweet - just like commercial rootbeer, so
the fermentation must stop early. They are heavily carbonated, but not
dry. Champagne yeast usually ferments away very dry - and can
withstand very high alcohol contents.
The only explanation I have come up with is that the yeast quits
due to high CO2 pressure within the bottle. However - if this were
true - we would never have to worry about glass grenades because the
yeast would never be able to withstand the pressure needed to explode
the bottle. There are many people that can tell you that this is not
true - anyone who has ever had a bottle explode (and there are many!).
Can anyone out there offer an explanation? Maybe it is a simple
one that I am overlooking - those are the hardest to see at times.
Collective? ... Tracy in Vermont? (I'm a big fan!), ...anyone?
Thanks,
Shane Lofland
(sslofl at ccmail.monsanto.com)
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:07:11 -0500
From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com>
Subject: Blow Off III
In HBD #1947 Jack writes...
>Cleaning out a carboy that was used for primary fermentation has got
>to be number one on the list. Compare that to cleaning out a classic
>7 gallon fermenter.
Couldn't agree more. I got yeast and trub dried on the inside of my glass
carboy, not pretty...
<snip>
>Skimming an open ferment is fun and zero beer is lost.
Just now doing my first open ferment, and again I agree. Something very
gratifying to a 'hands on' approach to brewing...
<snip>
>This may not ber myriad but it is rather silly and I quit.
Thanks loads for giving us your reasons. I'm not sure I'm ready to write it
off completely, but I must admit, I prefer open fermenting for the above
reasons.
On another topic,
I am trying my hand at krauesening (?? dang, that's hard to spell...) I'm
using CP's method for computing the amount of gyle to prime with (1.2 quarts
at 1.048 starting gravity to be equivalent to 3/4 cup sugar). However, I
once heard that this is not 'true krauesening'. To do that you need
actively fermenting wort. Wouldn't that have a lower gravity, and thus
lower it's ability to prime? If so, 1) Does anyone have a method for
computing the amount to add, and 2) At what point in the process? Any help
on this would be appreciated.
Cheers,
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust, Master Brewer | Blessings of your heart,
Jack Pine Savage Brewery | you brew good ale.
Shiloh, IL (NACE) | --Two Gentlemen of Verona, Shakespeare
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:55:42 -0500
From: Mark Montminy <markm at dma.isg.mot.com>
Subject: Cold plate success
Sometime back in December'ish, I asked for feedback from anyone with
experience using a coldplate in a kegging setup, rather than putting the keg/s
in the fridge. Unfortunately, the only responses I got were from people who
said they'd considered it, but never done it. I had offered to get back to
them, but alas I've lost thier addresses (as I always do).
For those interested, the setup;
One of those little 1.7cf "dorm" fridges. Installed inside is a cold plate,
purchased from Foxx. Kegs and CO2 sit beside the fridge at room temp. Tubing
runs into the fridge to the cold plate, and from the plate to a fridge mounted
faucet. I opted for a 2 line plate, so I have a second "squeeze" faucaet
floating loosely in the fridge.
There are several plates available from Foxx, most notably a 5', 12' and 18'
model. I went with the 12' unit. It fts comfortably in the fridge, standing
against the back wall. I intended to lay it flat, but the thickness got in
the way of the shelf on the door. With plate and plumbing, I still have room
for about 12 bottles, a big bag of baking yeast, hops, and misc stuff.
How's it work? Great. The fridge at it's lowest setting maintains ~42F.
While I haven't tested to see how many glasses I can draw through it before
the temp drops, I did "torture test" it. Whilst flushing the beer lines, I
filled the keg with scalding hot tap water. I was able to draw 3 22oz glasses
of _cold_ water before the water started to warm up. My guess is that short
of a party with continuous serving, it'll suffice for most peoples needs. I
suspect it may even keep up with that.
Cost? ~$60 for the plate with 4 fittings. Knock off about $20 for the single
line model.
Why not just use a full sized fridge, sometimes available for free? One, the
cost to run it is (I'm assuming) higher, and it takes up considerably more
space. My little fridge sits atop a filing cabinet next to the computer. The
ultimate computing accessory!
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Motorola ISG (508)261-5684 Email: markm at dma.isg.mot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Love cannot be much younger than the lust for murder.
-- Sigmund Freud
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:15:54 -0800
From: Ted_Manahan <tedm at hpcvn2ax.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Hunter Airstat Zener - replacement instructions?
Full-Name: Ted_Manahan
Another request to the collective wisdom:
My Airstat quit working recently. I suppose the zener diode blew out, as
has been reported by several people. Searching the HBD archives, I was
unable to find the instructions for fixing it. Can you help me?
Specifically, I need information on how to identify the failed diode. I
have information that tells me it's a 24V/5W diode. This can also be two
12V diodes in series.
OK, great. Now, which one of those components needs to be replaced?
Thanks for your help -
Ted Manahan
tedm at cv.hp.com
503/715-2856
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:26:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Woodfield <scottw at gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Subject: flocculation
The other day I started a Bitters extract recipe. I pitched WYeast #1098(I
think) (british ale) at 62 deg F and got good fermentation started in 18
hours. I didn't have much blow-off material as in my previous 6 batches.
Now two days into the still very active primary fermentation, there are
multiple 0.5 cm globules of tan material churning around in the fermenting
beer with some resting on the bottom and some floating on top. Is this
some kind of bizzare flocculation that I haven't seen before or is it
contamination?
Scott Woodfield
(202) 994-4537
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:33:35 EDT
From: "Herb B. Tuten" <HERB at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Subject: Brewpubs in San Francisco
Hello all,
Can anyone recommend a brewpub/microbrewery
or two in San Francisco, CA? I'd like to find a good
one for dinner when I visit there in March. Thanks.
Herb
herb at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 22:15 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Valley Mill
The Valley Mill seems to have created a lot of interest based
primarily on their claim to have stainless steel rollers. Their
ad specifically states stainless rollers and the Zymurgy review
repeats the claim. Glatt created confusion by saying the mill
was stainless but Valley leaves no such ambiguity in their ad.
I have several times stated my opinion that they are either nuts
or it is not true based on our experience and the need to offer
stainless rollers as a very expensive option.
It has recently been reported on Compuserve that a caller to
Valley was told that the rollers are not stainless. Needless to
say, there is a conflict here and it looks like our Friends at
Zymurgy have done another dis-service to the community by
not telling it straight in a review.
I do not wish to create a stir based on heresay so I would
appreciate it if someone who owns one or has talked to Valley
could report the facts. Don't be fooled by the shiny look.
Listerman has his plated but it is strictly cosmetic as the
plating starts coming off with the first use and eventually is
gone completely.
js
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:41:10 -0600
From: mdmroz at mail.ip.portal.com (Mark & Vonnie Mrozinski)
Subject: Munich Helles
To the collective wisdom,
Please share your favorite Helles recipe or direct me to your favorite. I
have craved this concoction since my Bavarian holiday years ago. Thanks to
all!
Mark Mrozinski
"Life, as brewing, is all about discipline"
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:28:31 -0800
From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com>
Subject: Cleaning blow off tubes, Aeration
David Ard in HBD #1946 writes:
>The other problem I found with the blow off method was cleaning the
>tube and the carboy. The plastic primary fermenter cleans very easily,
>while the carboy and tube does not.
I soak my blow off tube in a bleach solution for 30 minutes then put
a small piece of wet paper towel wadded up (not too big) into the tube
and use water pressure from my faucet to push the piece of paper through
a few times. Works like a charm - just make sure the wad isn't too
large and you hold the tube to the faucet tightly or it's water all
over the place - I know!
***
Regarding the aeration issue:
If you're doing a concentrated wort (extract) recipe, wouldn't
it be sufficient for the cold water in a carboy to already be
aerated when the wort is added? The 3.5 gallons of aerated water
ought to suffice for the full 5 gallons of water/wort combined.
Another question:
I've read (somewhere) that the first thing to go is the hop
aroma (as well as flavor) if your fermented beer is inadvertantly
aerated through splashing while racking/bottling. So, how is it that
aerating your cooled wort isn't going to do this very same thing
(i.e. kill hop aroma/flavor)? Is this a trade-off made for the
sake of healthy yeast metabolism?
-Mark- Sacramento, CA
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 07:42:16 EST
From: "Richard Smith" <QR1661 at trotter.USMA.EDU>
Subject: EasyMasher
Jeff, in response to your posting in HB1949-
>I've seen a number of ads for the EasyMasher....Any comments here?
The severe winter weather here in NY recently forced me to give up
brewing outside in my 3 tiered converted keg 10 gal system. So, I made
a 5 gal brew system for stove top use in the kitchen based on the easy
masher gizmo. Setup is as follows: Mash/Lauter tun made from easy
masher in 5 gal ss pot; Boiler made from salvaged 1/4 keg with 3/8" ball
valve spigot; Sparge water heated in a 4 gal ss pot and a 2 gal ss pot
and poured by hand over top of grain bed.
I just used this system for the first time last Sunday; got about 31
points/lb extraction (a little better than my 10 gal system). No
problems with the sparge, in fact, it only took about 45 minutes to
collect 6 gals of wort and the runnings were still at an sg of 1.018.
Pretty good. You can hold about 10-11 lbs of grain while using about
1.33qts water/lbs grain but that tops off the system; so you can make up
to about an OG 1.060 brew easily. BTW, that was the OG for the brew I
just made.
As you surmised, this system is real simple (and cheap) and that's what
attracted me to it. I think a 33 qt canner might work better as a
boiler, the 1/4 keg is kind of bulky. And you can figure out any number
of ways to heat and hold sparge water.
I am a fan of kettle mashing so I recommend this way; lots of control
over your brew. Good Luck.
-Jack in West Point
*******************************************************************
Richard J. Smith
qr1661 at trotter.usma.edu
72154.516 at compuserve.com
*******************************************************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 07:46:23 -0600
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt at dow.com>
Subject: Extended primary fermentation summary
Following is a summary of replies from my request which asked for
information from brewers who had let beer sit in a primary fermenter for
more than one week. This was prompted by recent problems I've had with
oxidation and wanting to minimizing transfers of fermented beer.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. The consensus seems to be it's no big
deal to let ales sit on the trub for two weeks or more. I don't plan to
let my beer sit much longer than a week in the primary, but now I won't
worry if it stays for two weeks. I'll report any tasting comments in the
future if one batch sits for an extended period.
Now I have another question that should have been asked on the first
request. Does anyone dry hop in the primary after the fermentation
activity has slowed? This would be my only major reason for using a
secondary in the future.
Reply summary:
Matt Grady, Burlington, VT, gradym at btv.ibm.com
Usually does two week fermentations in a primary for ales. Has lately
been experimenting with 3-5 days in a primary, followed by 1-2 weeks in
secondary and favors this method (BD- this was my usual practice).
Benefits are a clearer beer, less bottle sediment and cleaner taste,
especially within 3 months of bottling. The flavor difference is
noticeable, but subtle. Still hasn't decided if it's worth the extra
effort.
Steven W. Schultz <swschult at cbdcom.apgea.army.mil>
Typically brews using a secondary fermenter. Only made a few batches with
primary fermenter only. The beers were okay - cloudy, and perhaps slightly
less good overall, but acceptable. With ales wouldn't mind doing only a
primary fermentation, but with lagers and high-gravity ales that sit on the
dregs for weeks and months, he worries about off-flavors. Has recently
tried the following to minimize aeration: plastic fermenter, with a spigot
on the bottom, bottling bucket would be fine. When racking to a carboy
(secondary), simply run a long hose from the spigot into the bottom of the
carboy. Seems to introduce less air into the process, but just started
doing it, so doesn't really know if it will work or not (BD- sounds like a
good idea to me).
Jim Dipalma, dipalma at sky.com
When changed brewery from 5 to 10 gallons, eliminated the secondary
fermenter and lets beer sit for two weeks in the primary before kegging.
Has done 30 batches this way, no problems with autolysis, off-flavors, or
clarity. Some of these beers have scored high in competitions. Unless he
uses a very non-flocculating yeast, the beers are generally clear in the
primary after 2 weeks. In his experience a secondary fermenter is more
trouble than it's worth for ales that finish in less than two weeks.
Mark C. Bellefeuille, mcb at abrams.com, Phoenix, AZ
One time left an oatmeal stout sitting on the trub in a glass fermenter for
a total of 8 weeks - not planned, just happened. No off flavors at
bottling. Even bottles drank 4 months later didn't draw any complaints.
Has since switched to a temp controlled freezer and doesn't worry about 2-3
weeks on the trub. Has an IPA ready to keg that's been in the primary for
6 weeks, will report flavor soon (BD - tell us Mark!).
John Girard <jungle at hollywood.cinenet.net>
Asked a similar question earlier, responses matched his experiences: in
short, no one had had a confirmed autolysis problem, even when leaving the
beer on the trub in the primary for more than one month. One guy who
worked at a brew your own facility said relatively mild beers that had sat
in a plastic primary for 6 weeks had no negative flavors from the plastic
or autolysis. John's guess was that autolysis varies significantly with
yeast strain, environmental conditions. Beer style and personal taste
probably play a role as well.
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:53:36 +0100
From: saunderm at vt.edu (J. Matthew Saunders)
Subject: Re: Open Fermenters
Bryan writes:
>What do advocates of open fermentations use as fermenters? Perhaps
>Charlie P.'s book is the reason most people use carboys, but the other
>big reason is that they are easy to get and are pretty cheap.
>
>Where do you find a 7 or 12 gallon crock? And are these crocks lined
>so they are not porous? Do they fit in the fridge (for lagering)?
I think most folks use food grade pails. That's certainly how I've been
brewing for the last 7 years or so. I do my primary fermentation in a 6.5
imperial gallon pail and my secondary in a carboy.
You can get such handy pails at a variety of locations such as:
1) Home Brew Shops.
2) Restaurant Supply Stores
3) Restaurants (make sure that it didn't contain pickles or olives or
sumpin' like that and clean it REALLY
well)
As for fitting in a fridge, it shouldn't be a problem as long as its not a
full fridge or a small fridge.
Cheers!
Matthew.
=====================================================================
"Burn it, son, burn it. Fire is a great refiner."
J. Matthew Saunders
saunderm at vt.edu
http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/S/saunderm/index.html/page_1.html
======================================================================
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 10:15:22 EST
From: MJT15 at infoctr.chrysler.com
Subject: Mills, Flux, Temp Controllers, Keg Stuff
Hello All,
Well after lurking for some time I finally can type fast enough to try and
participate. This is my first post and I just had to share some thoughts.
A couple of digests ago there was a discussion about grain mills and my
experience has been nothing but good with the philmill (no association). It
seems to me that an adjustable mill is a lot more flexible than one that is
not. Although it is small the difference in grain size between 2 and 6 row malt
most deffinatly warrents the use of adjustment for the most efficient grinds.
On the subject of temp controllers for the fridge (I do know the diff. of the
activity and the appliance). My partener and I have been using a Honeywell
temp controller and again these are worth every penny of the 30 to 50 dollar
price. The ones we have can be set to controll rising or falling temps and
therefore can be used to control lagering temps in the northern climes we
inhabit.
Keg o-rings both top and in out fitting type need to be replaced when they
leak or before use in the case of the lid ring to keep from having a
pepsi-Pils. A neat little trick I use instead of vasaline is to wet the o-ring
on the in/out fitting with water before pushing on the ball or pin fitting.
This little bit of lube makes getting them on and off a breeze.
And lastly I'm not a welder or a pipe fitter so when I was looking to modify
my wort chiller I was a little worried about soldering the fittings. I found
things much eaisier than expected. Not that I want to become a plumber because
of my success but my confidence of tackeling copper pipe sweating in now at
least solidified. And along that note I found a water soluble non toxic silver
solder flux at the local hardware/plumbing joint (no pun intended). It left no
visible residue and imparted no flavor upon first use in a Pils batch just
recently out of the primary and now being lagered.
Thanks for a great forum and I look forward to contributing in the future.
home e-mail is Biergiek at aol.com
opinions expressed are my own
***JEEP/TRUCK-RWD TRANSMISSION-CHRYSLER ***
* Michael Tomaszewski (313) 956-1660 *
* BEER IS LIFE'S BLOOD - M.T. Zymurgist *
*******************************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:35:27 -0500
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Grain Volume / Heat Capacity
***Christopher M. Goll asks about 5-gal grain capacity:
Seems some long-forgotten but well-appreciated homebrewers some time ago
posted relevent info which I'll try to regurgitate from memory (which is
better than from the stomach X-b ):
Volume of 1 lb grain = 0.08 gallons = 0.32 quart
Heat capacity of grain = 0.6 - 0.8 times that of a quart of water (let's say
0.7)
10 lb grain takes up about 0.8 gallons or 3.2 quarts. At 1.3 quarts/lb grain
mash thickness, this yields total volume of 3.2 + 13 = 16.2 quarts, or a
little over 4 gallons.
10 lb of grain has a heat capacity equivalent to 7 quarts of water. So the
same 10 lb mash (with 1.3 qt/lb water) would have a heat capacity of 13
quarts + 7 quarts = 20 quarts or 5 gallons of water. This for step-strike
temperature calculations.
1.3 qt/lb is a pretty good all-around ratio, for a single infusion. Should
you wish to do two or more steps strictly with water additions, start with
perhaps 0.8 qt/lb for the first strike and figure from there, to keep the
mash from being too thin.
Assuming 75% efficiency you should have no trouble making 1.050 gravity
brews.
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:06:31 -0500
From: genitom at nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael A. Genito)
Subject: Question: Slow cool wort from boil to 130F?
A local brewpub has a newsletter which has a "brewing tips" column from the
brewpub's braumeister. A recent tip said that you should let your wort cool
slowly from boil to 130F - this will improve the clarity of the finished
beer. Any one else ever hear of this? Any comments?
Michael A. Genito, Director of Finance, Town of Ramapo
237 Route 59, Suffern, NY 10901
TEL: 914-357-5100 x214 FAX: 914-357-7209
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 08:36:01 PST
From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Fermenting under pressure/ comments
Since work has calmed down somewhat, I am able to try catching up on my
HBD reading. From this reading I have a couple of questions and comments.
There has been referance that fermenting under pressure is not a good
practice. I have recently tried this and found no noticable effects.
The idea came from a very good brewer who sugested a 40psi environemnt
in a corny keg for secondary. He uses this practice, I have and I haven't
notice any ill effects. Can anyone elaborate on the effects of such a
practice? Tracy, Al, George, anyone?
The second question stems from a recent problem in my brewery. I brewed a
Martzen and allowed it form a cold break before transferr to the primary
fermentor. I attempted to aerate with pure O2 but found my bottle empty.
Since it was to late a night to get another, I shook the carboys, pitched
and set them in the ferment refridgerator. The next morning I got a fresh
O2 bottle and aerated, though the ferment was just beginning. I am
curious if this practice may cause oxidation or other ill effects.
The second ariation was within 12hrs of the first. Any takers?
Next my comments, are directed toward the new HBD members. In my
efforts I catch up to the daily postings I have noticed that some
posters are completely discrediting some practices. In particular,
Jack has commented that blow-off is silly. I would like to disagree.
My technique applies a blow off for highly focculent yeasts (London Ale
1968, and German Ale 1007). I do this so I may fill the carboys fairly full
and allow the kaursen to "blow" out the top. The purpose is to get more
beer into the secondary via more beer in the primary. Unfortunatly Jack's
post (as several of his does) paints a picture that this is simply
a bad practice. To this end I must comment: "Jack, it may not work for
you, but it may work for others." All breweries develope induvidual
practices and what works for one brewery may spell disaster of the next.
For example, Jack has stated in the past the Irish Moss doen't work in his
brewery. From memory, it cloggs his Easy Masher. In my brewery , Irish Moss
works beautifully and I use it in every brew. On the other hand, hops in
pellet form, cloggs my boil kettle plumbing. What doesn't work for me may
work for Jack. So, new HBD readers, I would caution you that nearly all
information and debates presented in this forum has many sides, and absolutes
should be a flag to seek other opinions. Sorry for picking on Jack, for Jack
is one of the best at offering a counter point in a discussion (and his mill
is wonderful). I just take most of the opinions here with a grain of salt and
try things out in my brewery to determine if an idea works for me or not.
I encourage all readers that empirical testing in your brewery is the only
true test for ideas presented here. (And Jack, keep up the posts, your
posting often present another point of view.)
And last: THANKS TRACY! Your posts are some of the most informative I have
seen in the HBD. Keep it up! (If you write a book, I'll buy it!)
Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing ( where I've learned some chemistry and some biology)
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:43:36 -0500
From: John Miller {83802} <jwm at swl.msd.ray.com>
Subject: oxidation of the wort
On one hand it's been posted that one should minimize the oxidation of
the wort. On the other, one reads about these people busting up their
carboys trying to airate their wort. Personally, I thought oxidation
was only a problem during and after fermentation.
Thanks,
~John
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:52:49 +0100
From: bush at shbf.se (Robert Bush)
Subject: Krausen and DMS
Hi all,
I bet you thought I was going to write about foam, didn't you? Well I
ain't! I would like to know where the definition of the word "krausen"
comes from.
I've seen it in so many posts now that I'm actually starting to believe my eyes.
I've always thought of it as being a way of priming with actively
fermenting wort as in krausening (German) or gyle-worting! A common method
in Germany. Another (American?) definition seems to have developed where
most people speaks about "krausen" as being the foam or the head of their
fermenting wort.
Where does this come from? Maybe some Germans out there can shed some light
on this?
BTW, I don't want to sound like a school-teacher, I'm just interested in
how the word developed and if anyone else uses my definition so that I know
you'll understand me if I'm posting something about (my definition of)
krausening in the future.
DMS:
Some guy posted that he primed with DMS and was corrected by others. I
haven't seen him defending himself so I'd better help him. Maybe it's not
what he thought of but there is actually a malt extract called DMS, made by
EDME. In this case DMS stands for Diastatic Malt Syrup and it contains
enzymes necessary to convert starch into fermentable sugar (just as present
in malt). In ordinary malt extract these enzymes are destroyed when they
make the extract ( high temp.). Now, I don't see why anyone would want
further starch conversion to take place in the finished beer so it's not a
good idea to use EDME DMS for priming.
=========================================================================
= WASSAIL! =
= =
= Robert Bush E-mail: bush at shbf.se =
= Eskilstuna, SWEDEN =
=
=
=========================================================================
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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:49:13 -0600
From: uchima at fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: YES, I must be doing something right!!
Dave Scroggins <daves at mushie.cdc.hp.com> said:
> Jack says:
>
> > Cleaning out a carboy that was used for primary fermentation has got
> > to be number one on the list. Compare that to cleaning out a classic
> > 7 gallon fermenter.
>
> I don't think there is a comparison. I think it would take WAY to much
> trouble to clean that primary gunk out of a carboy, let alone the
> associated tubing. On the other hand, it's not too much trouble to clean
> my primary because it's got such a large opening.
FWIW, cleaning the gunk out of the carboy doesn't seem to be such a big deal,
as long as you don't let it dry out after racking the beer. Most of it just
rinses out; a couple of minutes with a carboy brush takes care of the rest.
Given that it only takes a few minutes, how can it be that big of an issue?
I generally don't use a blowoff, but on the one occasion when I was forced to
use one (nuclear Weihenstephan yeast :-)) I cleaned the tubing afterwards by
just jamming it over the end of my jet spray bottle rinser... WHOOSH, all
clean!
There may be other good reasons to use/not use a carboy and/or blowoff, but
IMO cleanup doesn't appear to be one of them.
- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima at fnal.gov
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